What’s the unique approach nonprofits have when it comes to landing press opportunities?
In the current media landscape, we’ve been told it’s getting harder to stand out (but it doesn’t have to be!)
Danielle Finck is a seasoned PR savant and the founder and CEO of Elle Communications. This episode peels back the layers of the media landscape's evolution, revealing how traditional forms of storytelling are vying for attention in a sea of content, and how brands and media are adapting to connect with their audiences genuinely.
The art of PR is more than just a game of numbers, and there are NO shortcuts – it's about nurturing authentic relationships and human connections. Danielle shares so many incredible insights around how to stand out when pitching journalists, the surge of op-ed prominence and “news fatigue”, and the refreshing emergence of solutions journalism.
The big takeaway? Human-centric stories are pivotal if you want to engage with more diverse audiences.
Resources & Links
Don’t miss DonorPerfect’s Community Conference SPARK on June 4 & 5! It’s for any fundraiser wanting to excel in donor management, program innovation, community engagement, and organizational growth. Register for FREE! RSVP: https://bit.ly/DSSPARK
Want a donor acquisition plan tailored to you? All you need to do is answer 5 simple questions. Get your personalized growth plan: https://bit.ly/DonorGrowthQuiz
The NIO Summit is the nonprofit industry’s premier digital fundraising event! Join hundreds of fellow nonprofit professionals in Indianapolis September 18-19 and save $600 on your ticket -- the lowest price available anywhere right here: https://bit.ly/NIOSummit2024
Let's Connect!
What’s the unique approach nonprofits have when it comes to landing press opportunities?
In the current media landscape, we’ve been told it’s getting harder to stand out (but it doesn’t have to be!)
Danielle Finck is a seasoned PR savant and the founder and CEO of Elle Communications. This episode peels back the layers of the media landscape's evolution, revealing how traditional forms of storytelling are vying for attention in a sea of content, and how brands and media are adapting to connect with their audiences genuinely.
The art of PR is more than just a game of numbers, and there are NO shortcuts – it's about nurturing authentic relationships and human connections. Danielle shares so many incredible insights around how to stand out when pitching journalists, the surge of op-ed prominence and “news fatigue”, and the refreshing emergence of solutions journalism.
The big takeaway? Human-centric stories are pivotal if you want to engage with more diverse audiences.
Resources & Links
Don’t miss DonorPerfect’s Community Conference SPARK on June 4 & 5! It’s for any fundraiser wanting to excel in donor management, program innovation, community engagement, and organizational growth. Register for FREE! RSVP: https://bit.ly/DSSPARK
Want a donor acquisition plan tailored to you? All you need to do is answer 5 simple questions. Get your personalized growth plan: https://bit.ly/DonorGrowthQuiz
The NIO Summit is the nonprofit industry’s premier digital fundraising event! Join hundreds of fellow nonprofit professionals in Indianapolis September 18-19 and save $600 on your ticket -- the lowest price available anywhere right here: https://bit.ly/NIOSummit2024
Let's Connect!
If you think about it, people forget that PR stands for public relations. It's relationships Across all of the different channels that we are communicating, whether it's in the media, with influencers, with celebrities, in the thought leadership sphere, out in the world, in public. Those are all human relationships and there is no piece of technology, piece of AI, anything that can substitute human relationships.
Speaker 2:Hey, there, you're listening to the Missions to Movement podcast and I'm your host, dana Snyder, digital Strategist for Non-profits and Founder and CEO of Positive Equations. This show highlights the digital strategies of organizations making a positive impact in the world. Ready to learn the latest trends, actionable tips and the real stories from behind the feed. Let's transform your mission into a movement.
Speaker 3:Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of Missions to Movement.
Speaker 3:I am your host, dana Snyder, and today's conversation is just going to be jumping into just that A conversation with a dear friend of mine, danielle Fink and I were colleagues back when I first started my business. I remember coming to your offices at L Communications in Los Angeles and presenting what it was that I did, how we could partner and work together as my world of digital and your world of PR, and I really wanted Dana to come on for me to selfishly ask a bunch of questions about what in the world is going on in the media, in the PR world. She has worked in all kinds of incredible impact based environmental, social, good causes, celebrities, influencers. I'm so honored to have you in my circle of people that I feel like I can talk to or send a random email to and for you to say, yes, let's chat. She is also a fellow mom, and so we were just pre-chatting about the life of going from one to two, danielle, so excited for listeners to be entered into this table chat today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. That's so kind of you and I feel the absolute same about you. Your brilliance struck me from day one and I am just absolutely loving gobbling up this podcast now.
Speaker 3:Yay, I'm so glad that you're now a fan. Can you back us up and tell us a little bit about what is L Communications and what did you set out to do? Because how long has it been? 16 years, that's insane.
Speaker 1:I know, I know, yeah, I mean, admittedly it was a right time, right place scenario.
Speaker 1:I had a lot of friends who, similar to me, were millennials that wanted to take on saving the world in our younger years of our careers.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I just had a lot of people that needed to help getting their story out but didn't necessarily have the funds for a big agency yet. And really L was born out of that and when I started the company initially I sort of thought it was me as a freelancer with maybe a couple people helping out, and again, it was really right time, right place. We were working with one of the first social impact brands in the fashion space and some organizations that really caught the zeitgeist and took off early on and that led to us expanding from our first office into a second office in LA and a third in New York, and it's been a real gift to be a part of the social innovation space, as these social enterprise businesses have really taken off. And also, I think people are caring more and more and paying attention more and more to what's happening in the nonprofit and foundation and philanthropic world, and so it really has been truly the honor of my adult life to be, at this zeitgeist, telling these types of stories.
Speaker 3:Yes, I love it, and what we see in the media is so clearly impacts our culture and the day to day of how we live our lives and what we tend to believe on certain things, and there's a lot of power in what's stated in the media and what we release, and so being able to have, like you're just saying so often and I worked for one of them the agencies that have large retainers a lot of the smaller shops can't afford those, and so sometimes those messages don't bubble to the top and to the surface as much as they should, and so I absolutely love what you stand for and what you've built over the past 17 years.
Speaker 3:And I wanted to kind of go back to 2017. I left a PR firm, and what has shifted or changed in? And I want to say I worked in the digital department, so I wasn't working on like the traditional PR pitching, but since then, so nearly like seven years later, how have you seen media and PR shift in the way that your team is having to pitch and get the word out about things?
Speaker 1:Gosh there are so many things, so I'll try to summarize to the best of my ability. I think, if I look across my career, we used to have these places where, look, I could get a product in Lucky Magazine and it would sell out. I could get a client on Oprah's TV show, as competitive as that was, and the product would sell out. We had these places that you could go and tell your story and it was a guaranteed sell out. We don't have as many of those anymore because there are so many communication channels and so many platforms and so many ways that people are getting their information. So, just the same as maybe we'll never have another phenomenon like Friends, because there are so many shows that people can watch now and it's the same thing in the media landscape. People always come to me and say, but where's the one place I should be having my conversation? I always say, if there was a one place, then that's what everyone would be doing. The reason that you see all of the big brands and the big organizations diversifying the channels that they're communicating across is exactly that you have audiences fragmented across all of these different channels. So I think, if I take a macro lens, that's the biggest change that we've seen happen, both with things that were happening.
Speaker 1:I guess another big trend right around that time was leading up to the 2016 election. You saw people like Elaine Wiltroth at Team Vogue really diversify the type of content and the types of stories that we saw being told there, in our perspective, in really advantageous ways, started telling stories of issues in the world that are facing women, that are facing communities of color, that are facing the future of the planet, in oftentimes a really on brand way for those platforms. You just saw these stories being told that were never told there before, so I think that's been a really cool advancement across the lifestyle media, especially. Then. I think even what we see today.
Speaker 1:Look, we were talking about this earlier, but a lot of people would say that the American journalism industry is in a little bit of a crisis right now. We're seeing a lot of layoffs and strikes and site shutdowns, and it ultimately ladders back to an issue that they've been grappling with for years, which is finding a sustainable business model. It's been about ads and it's been about subscriptions, and some have done it successfully, like the New York Times, and they've diversified their income with things like they're very popular and addictive games that we're all familiar with now. Ultimately, though, whether it's the advancement of affiliate content across the mass media landscape or new revenue models, new business models we're really just seeing it ladder back to that that they're trying to find ways to make it profitable for this incredibly wide range of platforms to exist.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I think it's interesting to your point about like there is no one outlet or one place to go. I was listening to a recent SmartList. Are you familiar with SmartList podcast? Okay, for those of you who aren't, it's Jason Bateman, will Arnett and Sean Hayes on this hilarious podcast that they bring in all of their friends essentially together and they released an episode. I don't know when it came out because I think we were like going back into the archives but they had like the number two at Netflix. So I was listening to the episode and he talked about how different it is Like you're referencing friends how when that was released there wasn't as much noise in the space.
Speaker 3:When movies back in the day were released, they owned that time. You couldn't just go, you'd have to like buy another ticket to see if you missed something during a bathroom break. You couldn't just go online in a few weeks and see your piece of content, or you'd have to wait until it came out on DVD months and months and months and months later. Versus now, if a movie's released, it's competing against literally any single piece of content that's ever been produced Right For the most part, and so just that landscape being super competitive. Do you see that in terms of for the listeners if they're trying to reach somebody to pitch something, how have you seen that relationship be different or shift over time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a really great point, and I think we're seeing two things. We're seeing the media, first and foremost, take that into account and know that they have to reach people in a wider set of channels than ever before. So what once might have been just a print newspaper now has a digital platform, has many different newsletters, has their own podcasts, has communication channels across social media platforms, whatsapp, video. There's just so many different ways that you have to slice and dice the same story in order to reach the same number of people as you used to. And then I also think then you have brands and organizations following suit, and that as well you have to. Again, everybody has to reach those same audiences and there's sometimes a much bigger challenge than in determining what was effective and what the ROI was on something, because you have all of these different channels happening at the same time.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of times we look at trying to learn over time.
Speaker 1:When we're working with an organization or a company where their audience is the stickiest.
Speaker 1:You can make some magic-related guesses at the outset, but sometimes you're surprised, you know.
Speaker 1:I give this example.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we get a client go live the same day with a holiday gift guide item for a sustainable brand in the New York Times and in the good trade, and the placement in the good trade outperformed I don't remember what it was, but it was like tenfold the performance in the good trade over the New York Times Wow.
Speaker 1:But if you think about it, the good trade has a really focused audience on sustainable and ethical brands, and because they were putting a recommendation behind it, that meant something to their audience, and so in that instance the New York Times was a little bit more top of funnel and the good trade was a little bit more bottom of funnel. But we can see that reverse sometimes too, you know, and so we're trying to just always pay attention to that and learn over time where an organization's stickiest audience is, because you do have to be communicating across a lot of channels, but you also want to be learning what's most effective for you through that process so that you can start to focus your attention in the places that it has greater results for you.
Speaker 3:Okay, I love this. All right, so I'm going to, let's like, do some brainstorming here, on the spot brainstorming. So, danielle, if I'm a listener and I'm trying to start by being scrappy with my PR strategy and understanding how the current market is, they want to get the buzz out about something X campaign that they have coming up. Where would you recommend that they start?
Speaker 1:So I think the biggest thing that people get wrong about PR and this has happened to me twice in the last week alone is thinking that it is a short term transactional activity. Yeah, I had someone, you know, in a conversation last week with a potential new client talking about, like well, could we just turn it on for like two months and then turn it off and then turn it back on. And I said, like, if you think about it like, people forget that PR stands for public relations. It's relationships, like across all of the different channels that we are communicating, whether it's in the media, with influencers, with celebrities, in the thought leadership sphere, out in the world, in public.
Speaker 1:Those are all human relationships and there is no piece of technology, piece of AI, anything that can substitute human relationships. And so I think the intentionality and the personalization and you know all of those things that, like I often give clients the analogy that, like you wouldn't walk into a room, meet somebody for the first time and ask them to host your birthday party, like they think of the journalists, like get to know them, let them get to know you, like you know, treat these people like human beings because, aside from AI bots that are writing stories. The rest of them are human beings. I share that because I think there is no substitute for paying attention to who's writing the types of stories that you want to be in fostering really thoughtful relationships with those people, sharing their content across social media so that they're getting more viewers like doing things that help them as well.
Speaker 3:I was just going to ask you how do you do that? How do you build like a really like authentic relationship? Hey, some might not even know. How do you find that right person? Yeah, that should be your ideal contact. And then what do you do when you do find them? Is that sending like a LinkedIn message? Is that reaching out on email? What's the best like first step?
Speaker 1:It's a dance, because you could ask that same question to 30 different journalists and probably get 30 different answers.
Speaker 1:And so I guess the first part of your question, you know, scanning the media landscape if it's magazines drilling into your local bookstore and picking up everything you haven't read before that looks relevant to you and scrolling through the pages, doing Google searches on what are the best media outlets covering, fill in the blanks, whatever your subject is like trying to really intentionally broaden your scope of understanding what's out there. And that's covering your subject matter and reading the content and finding who like oh, I can see myself in this. Oh, this person's writing about things that are relevant to me, like I'd like to be here eventually. So I think the first part is there's like no shortcut to like look, we have all kinds of tools and technologies that we use in our agency and it does not substitute reading the actual outlet. Every single person in our agency has to do that, because you can't have a meaningful conversation with a journalist if you haven't actually read their stories and they will spit it out in a heart beat.
Speaker 3:This is so true when it comes to podcast pitches to holy moly the amount of pitches I receive that they're like we love your show and then they pitch somebody so irrelevant to what I talk about, it's a delete Like, and sometimes I'll even we're starting to like you, like trying to give some advice. This shows you didn't. You have not listened to a single episode of the show. This, what's it about? If you do have any been your roster, that would be a good match. Please let me know. Bye the ones that make a big impact and please anybody take this.
Speaker 3:Is they have listened to an episode there in the email giving context to that specific episode? If you put a screenshot of a review that you've left on Apple in the body of the email, that definitely stands out. There's ways where it can show that you're actually being genuine and saying, yes, I want to be here, so I just wanted to like. I'm sure one thing hasn't changed, and that's that journalists receive so many pitches all day long and so when they do this research, they are looking to connect with somebody. Is there a genuine way that seemingly stands out in email or social these days?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that is such a mixed bag. First of all, you just gave a great formula there, and then you also pointed out the fact that people are not only getting so many pitches every day, but getting so many irrelevant pitches every day, and so the more sophisticated journalists that are deep and proactively covering stories have a limited bandwidth to be able to go through their inbox even and have all kinds of spam filters set up as a result of that. So I would say that email is a good place to start when you follow up with them, like expect to follow up. I don't know my first job, I don't know if I believe this, but my first employer in PR told me that there was a rule of seven that I needed to follow up at least seven times in a different and thoughtful way each time before I gave up. I don't necessarily stay married to that number, but I've kept it in mind like the idea of being rigorous in following up. Even with journalists that I'm friends with that are going to say yes to covering a story, it often they don't respond to the first email. They're totally flooded with emails, you know, and don't take one non-response as a no and at the same time. Just make sure that you're being thoughtful. Don't send somebody a super long pitch and follow up the next morning saying, like please get back to me today. There's an etiquette to it and it changes by the individual. Again, like, these are all human beings telling these stories and so treat them as such. And when I'm cold pitching someone that I don't know, every time I go back to them I try to bring something new to the conversation. I try to give them a new piece of information or data that maybe has helped or oh, they just put out a new story. Here's how, when I was pitching you before, like I can see it tying into like this vein of what you're covering now Just coming to them every time, showing that I'm not just like pinging my emails to the top of their inbox, but I'm giving them more thoughtfulness every single time.
Speaker 1:You know there are some journalists that you can see that are super active on social media. So if you see that they're a journalist, that's like that definitely you know you can engage with them there. You know you might see them posting about different conferences or events, like you know, trying to find meaningful ways to meet people. If you really know that what you're sharing with them is eventually something that they're going to be interested in covering. It's perfectly fine to ask to take them out to a cup of coffee. Like, don't be afraid to try to engage with them in real world, in real life.
Speaker 1:Over my career, when I find myself like working with a journalist a lot or pitching them a lot and I don't really know them well, I've been known to invite people on exercise dates because I have a multitask and if I can get a workout in and get to know a journalist at the same time, it's a total win in my book. But again, these are like human beings. That's amazing. One rule for like getting them to cover your story or getting them to engage with you and, if anything, the rule is like they're human beings that you're trying to get to know, just like any other category of your organization, whether it's in sales or development or marketing, whatever it is like, you have to get to know new audiences and new people. So, like, what human relationship building tools do you use there? They apply here and, like you were pointing to a minute ago, just being thoughtful and personalized and targeted unfortunately goes so far, because what I hear from my journalist friends is that the majority of the outreach they get right now is not that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, very true, and with everything that's going on, kind of the be scared about job security, and that adds a whole other layer to it. So what do you really see as this current shift in the media landscape and what we should be looking for Like? Where do we like preparing for?
Speaker 1:One thing that we're seeing is that we're seeing the business models evolve. Of course, I don't think that most media businesses necessarily know what their 10-year plan is right now, but you do see a lot of diversification of their platforms, like I was mentioning before newsletters or podcasts or different channels, and then some more niche platforms as well too, whether it's locally focused or subject matter specific the outlets that really have a focused lens on what they're covering and then play heavily in SEO and pieces like that to often monetize content with a silly ads or something like that. I think we're going to just see this huge evolution, continued evolution of news being consumed directly and indirectly through multiple content forms, because a lot of people are getting their news from social media. The number of interviews that I do of people who are newly out of college I say tell me about what media outlets you consume on a regular basis, and they start naming social media platform and I'm like but when news out?
Speaker 3:it's so true though that also goes to. You mentioned earlier thought leadership and how that stems into the work. I think sometimes we think of PR focus as what our organization is doing, but it also can be a great way for yourself to be pitched as somebody in the space because you are listener and expert at what you're doing around your cause area, thinking about voices within your company that you can raise from a thought leadership perspective and I know you've done a lot of work with different individuals around this. Anything specific you're seeing maybe shift in that world as how angles people are taking. That's different. Or, like I know, I focused on LinkedIn for thought leadership and speaking engagements, but thinking of themselves as an individual leader, as the CEO, as the founder, and pushing that angle versus necessarily org focused always.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, we tend to think about thought leadership in a few different buckets. We tend to think about it, I guess, from a tactic perspective. At least we tend to think about it as the buckets of are we getting an award or an accolade? Are we getting somebody to speak on a stage somewhere? Are we helping them to become known as a subject matter expert in something through repeated opportunities to be quoted by and interviewed by the media? Are we helping them to write contributed content? There's these different buckets that all ladder up to someone ultimately being seen as a subject matter expert in the public on that topic.
Speaker 1:A couple of things I think are interesting in the op-ed sphere. My goodness, I'm sure most people have noticed that it's absolutely skyrocketed. Maybe it's paired with the trend of more and more journalists being freelance, a lot of teams being pared down a bit in recent years. Where we used to see the opinion sections valid hidden somewhere deep in the website, if you're on the New York Times app or homepage, you're seeing the op-ed content right up there in front in person. Some of the most famous and well-known journalists of our time are opinion writers. Now the opportunity to contribute content to news outlets is greater than ever. I think that's a beautiful thing. Ultimately, the media is shaping what we know and what we believe as a society. The more diverse voices that we're able to elevate through platforms like that, the better, because not everyone's a full-time journalist. I think that's a really beautiful thing. I think that's also an opportunity for people who really are subject matter experts. Again, you have to look, then, for am I contributing a piece of content that's in line with where the zeitgeist is at right now? In this moment I'm meeting the cultural moment where it is. If so, then you probably do have something that has the potential for New York Times or Washington Post or some of these bigger outlets, because they tend to focus their opinion content on what's happening in the news right now. If it's less timely, newsworthy, you're probably looking for places that are looking for more long-form content that isn't necessarily something that's breaking news happening right now.
Speaker 1:Then the awards and accolades that media outlets are giving out has also grown substantially. Again, it's a new revenue stream for them. I think that that is obviously a very important thing. We want our media outlets to continue to exist. It's a huge, important part of our society.
Speaker 1:I often am trying to guide clients on what is really realistic because of who you are, the size of your organization, what you have achieved in this calendar year. What did we think the really likely awards and accolades are for you to go after? Because you're not going to win time 100 business every single year. Let's be specific about when we're going after that and when we're going after other things because they are expensive to apply for. Just being thoughtful there about what you're going after it when, but recognizing that there is something new every single month that I think exists in that area. It is helpful. All of these things ladder up to one another because when I go to South by Southwest or Ted to try to pitch one of my clients to speak there, I'm often sharing. Here's them on the Today Show last year and they were named a Time 100 business. Then here's an op-ed that they wrote for Fast Company. Those things ladder up to like. This is culturally relevant and so those things can really build on one another.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. It all leads to trust, credibility, of course, yeah. Permission, yeah, yeah. So I want to wrap with a question around how do you think impact organizations, really, and individuals, be working with the media in this new era?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think my number one tip always has and always will be the human side of it just not to forget that this is relationship development. But beyond that, I think, just the same way that we're seeing news organizations diversify their communication streams, organizations need to be doing the same thing and providing content for all of those different platforms that media are developing. There should be a plan with multiple channels for conveying your message to all of your different audiences, especially within the mass media, and not overlooking to that there's a lot of different types of media outlets that exist. There are national outlets, but there are also local outlets. They're the big, most well known outlets, but there are these smaller, niche, stickier audiences. There's nonprofit journalism platforms, like.
Speaker 1:There's so many different types of media broadcasts, podcasts, like you're on right.
Speaker 1:You know.
Speaker 1:There's just so many places to have these conversations and I think it's important not to overlook the ones that might appear to be more niche, but have a really sticky and focused listener or reader based setting realistic expectations of success.
Speaker 1:I'm sure we'd all like all of our businesses to be in the New York Times every single month, but just being realistic about what the measurable objectives are what's the story you're telling right now and when is it going to be relevant for the places that you ultimately want to be? Something else that I think is interesting right now, and especially for your audience of podcast listeners, is that we're hearing more and more about this idea of news fatigue and that, like doomsday narratives on topics like, let's say, climate change, can be some of the possible sources of that. I don't know the exact stats about this. I wish I did off the top of my head, but you know there are all these stacks that you hear about. We hear in a single day the number of things that have gone wrong that somebody a decade ago or two decades ago might have in their entire lifetime and I'm probably watching that stuff, but something along those lines.
Speaker 1:We've just been taking in a lot, and so I think there's an opportunity to address them with this idea of like solutions journalism that you'll hear. So some newsrooms have been upping their content to focus on what are the solutions that are happening right now. What are the tips, the inspiration, let's say on like a matter like climate change, you know, what are the eco-friendly tips? What are the inspirations that you can share for creating your life? Love that.
Speaker 1:How can you showcase the heroes that are making a difference in our society, rather than just focusing on the people that are disrupting it? And then I think in a similar vein there too, you know, with the younger generation, possibly because of some of the news fatigue and also because of the channels that are getting information and how that's changing we're seeing news be delivered in different ways. They're getting news through comedy, they're getting news through videos, they're getting it through social media channels.
Speaker 2:So true.
Speaker 1:That opens up a huge can of potential for misinformation, which is kind of down the side of that I'm getting my news from Saturday Night Live. I mean, that's a perfect example, though, Like how many people do you think are discovering, you know news stories from?
Speaker 3:Well, especially because I don't have cable, we don't listen to traditional news channels, so it's a lot through the internet of things that come up through social that then I link to being a news outlet or yet it could be like a satire. I get the skim daily and so I kind of I honestly like that's my like main one source about what's going on and then click through to read things further. But yeah, it's sadly not far from probably truth of a lot of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it actually is, and so you can be dismayed by it or you can embrace it. I find myself to be an eternal optimist, so I'm always looking for, like what's the bright side of this news, you know, and what's the what's the opportunity here? And I think, because I sit in a chair where I focus on telling stories of people who are positively impacting society, I can take all of these stats and turn it into something good and turn it into an opportunity for somebody who really deserves it.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, it's so beautiful. I love that. Thank you so much for what a great solutions journalism. Yeah, Mark, and ask straight down, Mark it down. Think about all the stories that you can share within your organization that are solutions based journalism, because that is innately what you are doing you are creating a solution to a problem that's in the world. That's such a perfect way to wrap up our conversation, and I always like to ask a question towards the end, and that is Danielle what is one thing that you would like to ask for help or support on?
Speaker 1:Hmm, that is such a great question and I think what I would love help on right now is understanding the future of the workplace, and there's so many things happening right now hybrid, remote, in person. There's also new generations entering leadership and management in the workplace and a lot of old systems bumping up against new ones. And, like I said, I'm a turtle optimist, so I'm constantly looking at like what do we all have to teach one another right now? And, yeah, I'm so curious where this is all going and where we land in a happy medium.
Speaker 3:I love that. Ok, and if people have answers, they want to reach out to you. What's the best way to do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can reach out to me through our website LL Communications is at ELLECOMMcom or through my Instagram, which is just Danielle Fink, F-I-N-C-K.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Danielle, thank you so much for all the work that you have done and are doing, and I just love watching you soar in what your business is doing, so thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom today.
Speaker 2:Same Thanks, dana. Can you tell I love talking? All things digital To make this show better. I'd be so grateful for your feedback. Leave a review, take a screenshot of this episode, share it on Instagram stories and tag positive equation with 1e so I can reshare and connect with you.