Missions to Movements
Missions to Movements is the nonprofit marketing and fundraising podcast that helps you grow recurring donors, scale monthly giving programs, and build digital campaigns that convert.
Hosted by Dana Snyder—speaker, strategist, and founder of Positive Equation—this show is packed with actionable nonprofit growth strategies, social media tips, and fundraising best practices.
Each week, you’ll hear how organizations are increasing donor retention, building thought leadership, and using digital fundraising to drive real impact. If you want to learn how to attract monthly donors, master nonprofit marketing, and transform your mission into a movement, this podcast is for you.
Missions to Movements
Human-Centered Fundraising: Tammy Zonker Redefines What It Means to Be a Hero in Philanthropy
If you've ever wrestled with the tension between being donor-centered and community-centered in your fundraising, today's episode is going to feel like a deep exhale. The incredible Tammy Zonker, founder of Fundraising Transformed, has helped raise more than $1 billion over her career, including facilitating a single $27 million dollar gift!
We dive into Tammy’s hands-on case study from the Children’s Center in Detroit, where her team tripled philanthropy in three years and doubled it again before her departure. You’ll hear what it actually looked like on the ground: auditing revenue channels, analyzing cost-per-dollar raised and ROI across events, grants, and direct response, strengthening monthly and planned giving, and expanding donor engagement.
This episode also explores why many nonprofits thrive with younger generations, offers in-the-trenches advice for leaders navigating busy giving seasons, and how to thoughtfully affirm everyone who contributes their time, talent, and resources.
Resources & Links
Connect with Tammy on LinkedIn and learn more about her book, Calling All Heroes.
Already have a monthly giving program? The Mini Monthly Giving Mastermind starts in January and is just for you.
Register now for the FREE Monthly Giving Summit on February 25-26th, the only virtual event where nonprofits unite to master monthly giving, attract committed believers, and fund the future with confidence.
Let's Connect!
- Send a DM on Instagram or LinkedIn and let us know what you think of the show!
- My book, The Monthly Giving Mastermind, is here! Grab a copy here and learn my framework to build, grow, and sustain subscriptions for good.
- Want to book Dana as a speaker for your event? Click here!
If you've ever wrestled with the tension between being donor-centered and community-centered in your fundraising, today's episode is going to feel like a deep exhale because my guest, Tammy Zonker, believes it is time for something bigger, something human-centered. Tammy is the founder and president of Fundraising Transformed, the host of the Intentional Fundraiser podcast, and one of just the most respected voices in philanthropy today. And over her nearly 30-year career, she has helped organizations raise more than a billion dollars, including a single gift, I might add, of 27 million. So listen in. And she wrote a new book, Calling All Heroes. Tammy issues this rallying cry for fundraisers to reclaim what it truly means to be a hero. Not through savorism or spectacle we talk about, but really through courage, integrity, and collaboration. And invites us to see donors and volunteers and staff and beneficiaries as heroes in their own right, working together to create thriving, equitable communities. So, what's in store? How do we merge donor-centered and community-centered fundraising into this human-centered approach she's talking about? What does it mean to shift organizational culture and really overcome some resistance to change? She shares a really cool story. Her time in Detroit behind tripling giving with an organization there by bringing everyone to the table and how she has really thought about thought leadership and how it's opened so many doors and not thinking about it through raising her voice, but the mission and the impact that she's so passionate about and how that can be a ripple effect and do the same for you. So, anyways, grab your notebook, grab your the notes app in your phone because this episode is really a fun one with Tammy. Let's dive on in.
SPEAKER_03:Part of why some organizations really thrive focusing on or including this younger generation is that they are curious. They don't take a one-size-fits approach to fundraising. They aren't attached to, well, we've always done it this way, right? They get curious and they're willing to try different things. And most importantly, to listen to the audiences that they want to attract. So they ask the questions. They try to understand and create a dialogue. Younger, respective supporters. What is it that you want and need in your partnerships?
SPEAKER_01:Tammy, I am so grateful that you are here. And I think there's so much wisdom that can be expressed, especially in this crazy time of giving season. We are about to shut all of our computers in a couple of weeks and read your book. Yes. Inspire everybody for the new year, calling all heroes. Everyone can go check it out in the show notes. But before we dive into that, and a lot of conversation on kind of the nitty-gritting of fundraising and what you believe and what this book is all about is you have been a trusted voice in this sector for quite a while. You have been teaching at IU, you keynote internationally, you've done a lot of work with individual organizations on consulting. I am always curious how has building, and you were just talking about being a little bit of an introvert, but how has building like your own thought leadership really opened the doors for the causes you care about? And as everyone is making their vision boards and how do I want to do 2026 differently? What advice would you give to fundraisers or really anyone at a nonprofit organization that wants to grow their voice and their credibility in the field to amplify their work? Because you do this so well.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh. Dana, thank you. I mean, I'm so grateful for the opportunities that have evolved in my career in my life. And I especially appreciate you acknowledging me that in that way because I so respect and adore you and your work and your thought leadership. So thank you for that question and that very generous acknowledgement. When I started teaching and speaking nationally and then internationally, it really was not about building a personal platform. It was about amplifying the messages in fundraising that I thought were the most important. And they were always and continue to always be centered in heart and strategy and humanity, right? In my belief that when people give from that place, heart, strategy, humanity, that lives are changed on all sides of that gift, right? The giver is changed and affirmed and their identity. So all that to say, it just has really come from a really genuine, authentic kind of place. I just speak my truth. I share from my lessons learned. I love that. Yeah. I mean, it's I really believe that people aren't attracted to polish, but they're attracted to truth and authenticity.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Oh my gosh, it's so good. And I think one of the stories that I always remember my keynotes is your story is worthy too. And I love how you just centered that around. It's not about me, but it's about the message that I so wholeheartedly believe in. And I know, listener, you are in the place where you so wholeheartedly believe in the mission. And it's like, but your voice is an amplifier of that. Yes. Of that truth and of that knowledge that you're sharing. So good, so good. You have helped raise nearly a billion dollars over your career. I mean, just like, let's just drop that into the resume. Watch out, Bill Gates. But one story, there's a story that you share around tripling giving in Detroit by bringing everyone to the table. And I think this like so nicely like opens the door into our conversation about what your book is about. Can you unpack that story for us? Like, bring us into that moment in time, what happened, what did you do differently, and why did that work?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, just as we're talking, it's like how we were able to triple philanthropy in three years and double it again by the time I left that organization was that intersection of heart and data, right? So let me set the context. So we were able to triple philanthropy in the first three years at the Children's Center in Detroit. And the Children's Center is this amazing nonprofit that serves children and youth and families in the heart of Detroit, children and families that are dealing with mental health issues or behavioral health kinds of disorders, whether they're, you know, like autism or ADHD or any number of either trauma or just neurological or neurodiverse issues, and to help them thrive and to help these children become the amazing people they were born to be. And so when I first came into that organization as the chief philanthropy officer, I had been consulting and training with them for a number of years. And the first thing to do when I accepted that role was to just dig into the data. So, anyone who's listening, like here is like the recipe. I first looked at where are the contributions coming from? And unfortunately at the time, they were mostly coming from government funding, Medicaid reimbursement, SAMHSA, like substance and mental health services. What was coming from individuals, corporations, foundations? What was our retention rate? What was our average and median gift size? So just like unpacking all the data. So essentially, what were the strategies and tactics and the channels that they were using? What was the cost per dollar raised? What was the return on investment for the events and the direct response campaigns and the grants and the major gifts and you know, like all the things. And then stepping back and saying what was missing and who was missing. So, Dana, you'll love this. Yes. As like the queen and the ambassador, the flag carrier for monthly giving. There was no monthly giving program.
SPEAKER_01:Wild.
SPEAKER_03:Really wild. There was really no planned giving program. And quite frankly, I mean wild, but not rare. Yes. Yes. That's so true. And needing these programs is common sense, but it's not common practice. Preach. It's because like the events in the grants have deadlines, like hard stop deadlines.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But important things like monthly giving and plain giving and major gifts don't really have deadlines. So they don't have the same urgency that some of these other channels do. That's right. So lifting up those things and saying, okay, we're not doing these and we need to do these things.
SPEAKER_01:And they're not usually as like sexy of a big payment all at once. There's that too, right? It's like planned monthly. It's more of a slow bill, but it's consistent versus we really need a million dollars or whatever it is at that moment that comes in the gate.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Like there's an investment, and then you really do need to nurture and grow those channels, those strategies over time. It's not an overnight kind of thing. And then also asking who isn't at the table, who? So, in other words, the Children's Center is in the heart of Detroit, which is a beautifully rich, diverse community. Like I think the latest data is it's like over 80% people of color. And yet our database was very white, which is great, but to the exclusion of our, you know, friends and neighbors in our community. And it was also a lot of older people. I think our average demographic was like 63 years old.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so part of our goal was not just to diversify and strengthen our fundraising, but it was to invite people in, you know, people who naturally, younger people, people of color, like all of us working together to help these amazing children. And so that also is not an overnight solution.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So we looked at, okay, how can we attract a younger demographic? How can we attract our neighbors, our people of color? And in fact, we spend a chapter in Calling All Heroes talking specifically about how to build diverse teams and why that's so important, and then how to also attract diverse donors. Again, it is the global majority are people of color. And in the US, I think it's by the year 2035, getting really close, we will be a majority nation of color. And so those of us who aren't intentional about growing and attracting and, you know, embracing a diverse supporter base, donors, volunteers, leadership, advocates in our community, we really are losing an opportunity and we're doing a disservice to the people that we serve.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah, I think it's a really interesting time in our sector where you're probably seeing this too in some of the more macro conversations around this. There's been a lot about the generosity crisis, about individual gifts being down. And I was actually talking with Becky at We Are For Good about this briefly. And I was like, is it because for the millennial generation, the younger generation, we back in the day when our parents were our age, there was more wealth to say things were lower cost, like I can have my house and I can have my car, and I'm okay, therefore I will give to the organizations I serve, versus now we are tighter to the chest on our funding because we're not buying houses, we're living with parents, we're doing all these things. And from that moment in Detroit to moving forward, how have you been working with fundraisers on this shift that we've really seen in our sector? And how to there are some organizations that just fundraise and speak to the younger generation and they thrive in doing that. It's a very different model. So it's this like a little bit of historically what we're used to and what we expect to happen, and why are our efforts that we've always done not working with this new age? But then some of these orgs are just like seeing such huge success. What have you seen and what has your experience been with that?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's an amazing question. And I think that, you know, part of why some organizations really thrive focusing on or including this younger generation is that they are curious. They don't take a one size fits approach to fundraising. They aren't attached to, well, we've always done it this way, right? They get curious and they're willing to try different things. And most importantly, to listen to the audiences that they want to attract. So they ask the questions, they try to understand and create a dialogue, younger prospective supporters. What is it that you want and need in your partnerships? Whether it's we've read the data, right? There's lots of studies out there that say the younger demographic, they are more attracted to causes versus organizations themselves or organizational brands. You know, maybe they really believe in mentoring, but they may not be attached to Boys and Girls Club or Big Brothers, Big Sisters specifically. We also know that they like hands-on. They want to see and believe and have build trust with the leaders of the organization. So volunteerism may come first. So they're just open, they're curious, and they co-create with the people that they want to attract. And I think that's something that we can learn from and figure out how do we apply those learnings with each of our different audiences? What is it that they want that is centered on the beliefs and values that we share?
SPEAKER_01:And let's do that together. Such an interesting perspective to think about. And I know there are like coalitions around. One of my big passions is the anti-human trafficking effort. And I know there are coalitions of groups that come together, and I'm sure they're shared research, but I wonder if there's shared research on fundraising in those cause areas that they share with each other about what they're seeing would be curious. Your new book, Calling All Heroes, really talks about what it means to be a hero in fundraising. And you talk about this everyday courage from the volunteering, from the donors to those receiving the services. In this world where there's lots changing all the time, we're about to head into a new year. What is your hope for the listener that's listening right now, or the person that opens it at home is like feels the crisp pages of a new book and they're reading through it? Like, how do you want it to reshape? I don't know if it's how the fundraiser sees themselves, see their community, sees their maybe existing habits. What are you hoping that somebody they close the book? What's happened? What's changed?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. My hope is that this book becomes a unifying rally cry for bringing the best of donor-centered fundraising and the best of community-centered fundraising, right? Both are incredible models. And I feel like as fundraisers, as nonprofit leaders, we're kind of torn. Like we believe in the justice and the truth of community-centered fundraising. And yet we are really struggling and nervous about raising enough money to move the needle in our organizations. And what we know is that donor-centered fundraising, centering the donor, has helped increase giving. And so this collision of like it has really worked for fundraising, especially with an older demographic, but it hasn't necessarily worked for communities. And so, how do we take the strengths of both, right? The strengths of donor-centered fundraising, which by the way, was never introduced to give donors full authority over our missions and mission creep. And there's an accountability that comes with that, which has been a challenge for us, right? We don't push back on power dynamics when we should. We don't push back on entitlement. We don't push back when some of our major donors have stereotypes about who we serve and the work that we do and what needs to be done. We don't have a true partnership conversation with them. And honestly, that's on us. Right? I mean, we do an entire chapter on parodynamics in Calling All Heroes because if we're going to take the best of donor-centered, we have to be accountable for those authentic, true partnerships. Likewise, community-centered fundraising is beautiful and true and right. And yet there is a shadow side to it as all well. So both have strengths and both have like a shadow side. And for community-centered fundraising, you know, the shadow side is more around it's complex. There's a long road to implementation and not really a lot of clarity about how do I actually implement this? There's a lot of infrastructure that needs to be built. And so it's a long runway.
SPEAKER_01:When you're working and advising organizations on deciding which route to take or both, what have you heard as either oppositions or no, we were thinking only this. How do you consult on advising like which way to move forward?
SPEAKER_03:My advice and the book is really centered on moving forward with a human-centered approach, combining the best of both and doing that. So there are five pillars in human-centered fundraising. And the first pillar is empathy, like really understanding, being curious, asking questions, right? So this concept of radical empathy and also deep listening. And I think that that's something that has been missing in donor-centered fundraising. Like we may listen to the donor, or at least the major donors, right? Do we really listen to those who are closest to the mission, who have the lived experience of the challenges that our communities, our neighbors, our our world is experiencing? So, you know, that listening is such an important piece of it. Creating belonging. Again, where it's not just the major donors who feel like they belong. Everyone feels like they belong. Everyone has a seat at the table, and not just some, you know, for optics or some performative kind of seat at the table, but real voice and agency in helping shape together how we're moving forward.
SPEAKER_01:Right. I love that. Yeah, it's so important. Movember is one of my favorite organizations that has done this. I helped run their North America campaign for three years. And it was all about the belonging of the Mobros and the Mo Sistas and coming together and fundraising for men's health. And it was the stories on their website, it was all about what their community is doing and giving up. It was like, here's different ways that you can participate. Have fun with it, be creative. I mean, they would do the wildest things to raise money for the cause and to raise awareness. And but that was truly like there was a genuine sense of belonging. They would do these runs, these like 5K runs, where and they partnered with Saks like Undies. And so the men would run in these like boxer undies. Fun visual out for you listeners. This is when I lived in California, but they did like five or six different runs around the US. And ours was thankfully in California. So like in the Santa Monica. So it was not so cold. But it was the season where in New York City they'd be running. It's like cold outside in like these little emdies, but it was like, but they'd have so much fun. And then the bar afterwards is packed, and everybody's like excited together. And it just brings together so much community. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it is. And everyone had something to share.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Right.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yes. The story of why they're there.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And they were given a you know equal format in which to engage, to advocate, to be those ambassadors. And so they were heroes, right? That is really the premise of the book and human-centered fundraising is that all of us have an opportunity to be an everyday hero. And it's not just the major donors, it's truly all of us. And the problems we're working to solve are way too big and complex for any single hero, anyway. That's right. So, you know, Dana, I might be kind of dating myself a little bit. But when I was a kid on television, there was this series with Linda Carter called Wonder Woman. Did you ever watch that, like the reruns of it?
SPEAKER_01:I did not. I but I'm very fond of it. It's actually so funny. My daughter picked out a book from the library that's like Wonder Woman themed literally this past week. And that's so ironic that you bring that up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Your daughter and I would get along really, really well.
SPEAKER_01:It's the Tammy and Kennedy show.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes. Well, I think that we all had heroes of some sort when we were growing up. You know, mine was Wonder Woman. For some folks, it might have been Black Panther or Green Hornet, or, you know, it could have been an athlete. It could have been who knows? It could have been a teacher. But there was someone that we really admired. And I think with this book, I mean, I recognize that the word hero can be triggering for some people, that it can be absolutely synonymous with white saviorism and classism and all the things about power dynamics that are unhealthy for people and certainly for our sector. So I am inviting everyone to take back the word hero, to join me in taking back the word and really taking it to what it was originally meant to be. And that is people who are courageous and selfless, people of integrity who have a sense of right and wrong, and they lean like they're leaning on the site of what is right and fair and just and inspiring. Yeah. Right. So Linda Carter in this Wonder Woman series, like she by day was this very conservative, buttoned-up little government worker until there was some injustice happening. And then exactly she did her little spinny thing, she got her cuffs that could deflect bullets, she had her lasso of truth. And she flew an invisible airplane. Just ask Kennedy. Kennedy knows these things. So I do. I think it's time for us to take back the word to what it was meant to be, and that to recognize that anyone, everyone can be an everyday hero.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that. Yeah. That's what I love so much about recurring giving, is because it's really expanding this idea of microphilanthropists and that your gift, compounded by hundreds or thousands of others, is able to do significant change over time. And so, like you are the committed believers to the causes, which I love. So now they're also just committed believers and heroes every day. So let's just say I'm a listener and I'm like, okay, I'm digging with Tammy's thrown down. I'm gonna buy the book. What are some practical steps that a leader listening could take to move towards a more inclusive, human-centered model? If they're not already doing that right now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, if they're not already doing it, I mean, if you are doing it, bravo, fabulous. And for most of us, there's probably a next level. But some of us, yeah, we want to take that first step. And I think for most organizations, the first step could be just reach out to someone, one person a week, and listen to them. Like ask. And not just donors, although it could be donors, it could be one of those constituent groups that you reach out to, but not just the major donors. Call a monthly donor, call a first-time donor, call a labs donor, right? Call a volunteer, call a board member, call someone who is volunteering. I mean, at the Children's Center, we had so many amazing volunteers, and many of them were parents whose children were receiving services. And maybe they didn't have a lot of cash or cash equivalent gifts to make. Some of them didn't, but they might have had time. And so they might volunteer, like in our gently used clothing boutique where families would come and shop for free, or they might volunteer, I don't know, in some, you know, the sit in the lobby and read or be part of homework help or call one of them and ask them what have been some of your most meaningful giving opportunities? Giving of your time, giving of your passion, you know, caring about friends and neighbors. Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_01:I just had the coolest conversation. I'm in the middle of doing like a VIP intensive with an organization for their monthly giving program. And she mentioned that at the holidays, they have a store where people can come in and shop and purchase things, not only for the children, but for themselves. And they get to pick out the items. So it's a true shopping experience. And they also do a food bank. Like there's multiple parts of this organization. And she says they set up a voicemail where after you leave any of these services, there's like a QR code you can scan because that way it's anonymous. And she's like, We have thousands of voicemails. And just to be able to listen back to these, and they've given permission for the voices to be used on videos or for promotional materials that are there. But it's also just great feedback for their teams to be able to hear how is the experience for them? What has this meant for them? What exactly like what you're saying, without it being one-to-one, so like hundreds of people could be doing this at once and they just have this bank, and then it's also recorded so that they have it to use. So, recommendations for anybody who has some type of experience like that, where you can invite people to leave anonymous voicemails, highly recommend.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. And you know what else I love about that, Dana, is that they have the opportunity to do that after they've had the experience, not before.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Because sometimes that feels like a quid pro quo. Like you leave a nice voicemail that we can share with our supporters, and then you can shop, which feels like a power balance, a subtle, but still power, power play. Yes. Yeah, yes. I love that. Actually, it's kind of tingly teary when you were discovering.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it's so cool. I know. I thought I was like, oh, that's so special. And I just think there's such power, and which is why I love doing a podcast. There's so much power in audio and voice and how much we consume in that way and how they could repurpose that. Anyways, okay, so as we wrap up the conversation for where people can start, what's one practical thing? We are in the midst of hectic fundraising season. What's one thing that you think that they should start to do right now to move towards that human-centered fundraising?
SPEAKER_03:Well, you know, we're we're talking a lot about not being transactional and being relational. And one of the ways there's a fine line, you know, just in terms of our gift acknowledgement, you know, whether we are cranking out those form-filled, merge field, like what can you do to personalize your gift acknowledgement letters? And that's for your donors. Now, what can you do to also acknowledge other people, other groups, whether it is, again, the volunteers who are helping coordinate the holiday shop or whatever your peak volunteer activity is here in the fourth quarter as we go into year end? You know, what is it that you can do? To acknowledge and celebrate the people who participate in your programs. That was what I loved the most about the Children's Center. It was just how incredibly determined, how incredibly heart-centered, like just what a stand they were and are for their children, for their youth, and not even just their children, but all children.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing.
SPEAKER_03:I tell a very hard story, which I won't get into now, but it was about a mother whose son died in a house fire. And one it was she had two sons, one survived, one did not. But when the we did a special fundraising initiative to help them get back on their feet, because they literally lost every single thing. And there was a little bit of money, like$2,500 left in that fund. And we said, listen, I finance needs us to empty that fund. You know. What do you you want to do? And she said, We're simple people with simple needs. Can we spend that money on fire alarms for other families at the Children's Center?
SPEAKER_01:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Right. And that's the beauty and the generosity and the love of people who participate in the programs, who have that lived experience, who understand how hard it is, and they want to help someone else either come through it or avoid what they've experienced. And so just how can you express gratitude and see people and just like name who they are, regardless of how they engage with your organization? Have a very specific plan and do that and do it at scale by leveraging not only your very busy team, but your board members, other volunteers, even other people across the organization. That was a long answer to a short question.
SPEAKER_01:No, so good. Such a beautiful way to wrap what a what a lovely story and how she turned a horrific incident into something where she just wanted to continue to give to others and so that that wouldn't happen to them. And so grateful for your time and just being in this space. And please, everyone, go get the book. Is there a place? I know it will be sold everywhere, I'm sure. Is there a place specifically where you would like to direct people to go? And where can they follow you?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, thank you, Dana. Well, we do have a site called Calling All Heroes Book.com. And so it talks about the book. It also has links to everywhere it's sold. I mean, some people have their preferred outlets, some have their preferred places they don't want to buy books in these days. So you'll find the links to all the places, most, you know, the big places, the majority of the places that it'll be sold on that site. And you'll get a, you know, you'll also get an opportunity if you do buy it and want to come back and put in your receipt number, then we can invite you to a free 90-minute webinar in February to do a deeper dive into the principles of calling all heroes and human-centered fundraising. And then, of course, Tammy Zonker. I'm pretty sure I'm the only Tammy Zonker on LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01:You luckily have a good SEO name. This is true. I always joke with my husband. I was Dana Backage before, and no other Dana Backic has existed. Snyder, way more common. So yeah, it must really be true love. Yeah. Thank you so much for this, Tammy. Can't wait to. I saw a sneak peek version. Oh, I did want to ask you, will there be a Tammy audiobook version?
SPEAKER_03:We don't have a date for it yet, yet, but it is part of my contract with Wiley. So I'm excited to do that. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:The hardest thing I ever done recording the book. I tell you. Words that trip you up that you would never imagine. The word, so my sneak peek listeners, when you're recording an audiobook, and I definitely had a whole episode about how I believe that nonprofits should write books about their missions and share them. If you happen to record an audio version, your editor will probably ask you to say words like stop edit, stop edit if you mess up the amount of times. I should have probably asked to edit. How many times did I say stop edit? Sending you all the positive, good vibes. Thank you. And congratulations.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. And thanks for having me on. It's quite an honor to always spend time with you and the opportunity to talk about calling all heroes. I so appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:Of course. Of course. Happy holidays, everyone. Thanks, Tammy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Happy holidays. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode of Missions to Movement. If you enjoyed our conversation and found it helpful, I would love for you to take a moment to leave a review wherever you're listening. Your feedback helps us reach more change makers like you and continue bringing impactful stories and strategies to the show. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button too so you'll never miss an episode. And until next time, keep turning your mission into a movie.
