The Good, The Bad, and The Churchy

In this episode, we unpack our experiences growing up in Christian schools, attending church, and being immersed in Christian culture from an early age. We talk about the expectations placed on us, the messages we received about mistakes and failure, and what happens when questions aren't welcomed.

We also discuss deconstructing religion, navigating faith as adults, Christian music, church culture, and why so many people struggle when they're taught what to believe but not how to process life's hard questions.

This isn't a conversation about abandoning faith—it's about examining what we've been taught, holding space for questions, and finding our way through the things that no longer make sense.

As always, we're talking about it out loud.

"We were taught how to follow the rules. We weren't always taught what to do when we broke them."

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Greetings and salutations. Oh miss now. Another today. Wherever she is today, I will remember that phrase. I think she is doing well. I really truly do. I was trying to make that drink sulfine. Supposed to be purple. I've tried it every which way, and the lavender syrup does not keep it purple once you add any type of citrus. Or the coconut cream. Nothing. Nothing worked. But whatever. I'm just gonna be surprised with pink. But I got purple food dye and it turned it like it looked like the cup that you use of water that you just put all your paintbrushes in. And that made me think of Miss Nels, which was our art teacher in Crush Hunt School. And she would always just be like, group, group, to like us quiet. And oh my god, we must say that all the time.

unknown 0:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

It was only two people. I'm like, group. Just for no reason. Love her. I did love her. Welcome to talk out loud, folks. Well, we will absolutely be talking out loud. Drink drinks. You know, I don't I don't beer wine again. I like judgment right. Branding or wine. Judgment right there. It is. This is red wine. Okay. Red, red wine. Anyway, sorry. This is a rose margarita. So delicious. And I don't really like champagne or anything, but it's good. With tequila, obviously. Cheers. Cheers. Strategia, wealth group. We're talking out loud. Talking out loud about deconstructing religion, especially from the 90s. So I guess I'll start. We grew up in a predominantly, I'll say white, Christian, non-denominational church, slash school, slash every other thing you want to add to it. And no shade. That's what we knew. I'm not mad at it. But a day or two ago, I ended up down a rabbit hole of all of these other people out in the world that I guess grew up the way we did. And I had a whole moment. So the first thing I saw was this guy who says, Hey, does anybody know where this song came from? Scratch another back, scratch a back next to you, scratch another back and sing this song. And I was like, Oh my god. Salty in the singing, the singing songbook. Let's talk to you. One step at a time. Yes. I'm never trying to song. Uh and they had motion, like they had motions to the songs as well. It was Barney. It was Barney before Barney. Like, please. Oh god, I didn't even think about that. You are so right. It was Barney before Barney. Mm-hmm. Just blue. Yep. It's Christian Barney. Like weird lips lips and like weird eyes. Bible Barney. That's not it. That's yeah. Bible Barney. Like that. Let's quin that. Bible salty. You are now Bible Barney.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

There's so much about, and I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and I know this is gonna be very unpopular, but I've said it multiple times, so I might as well just say it here too. There are many times where I think that it was a cult. I'm just gonna have to go there. I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm not saying that I don't believe in God or anything like that, because I 100% do. It's just some of the things that there was just like this blind faith and this just like blind, we're gonna go with it. And here we are 20, 30 years later, and it's like, what? So, for folks who don't know, I wrote a book. It is called I Thought I Was Fine.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Oh, you have it.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Yay, it's here. So sad. It's okay, it's okay. Um, and it's just a collection of stories of you know, instances and situations and things that have happened in my life that got me to the point where I am today. And some are fun, some are funny, some are like back of WTF, and I'm okay with that because I did that as well. I looked at myself and was like, what am I doing? But the first couple chapters were very, very hard and interesting because I was writing about Tamar and I's upbringing, so we can actually dive into it now. So even though we grew up in the same household and we're only a couple years apart, we grew up like we had different parents. Yeah, we have different views of what our parents did, even like if it it's weird because like if daddy said good morning, or what were we talking about? Like if daddy didn't show up for you, you'd be mad. But for me, I was like, well, he was asleep. I know I have to wait for him. Like it didn't make me think like I couldn't trust him in, like, I didn't go that deep with it. I 100% did. Daddy was always late picking me up because he was asleep. And we didn't live like in bus route of the church slash school. We lived about, I don't know, what would you say, like maybe 15 minutes? Well, see, for that, for Christian school, I don't remember either parent ever taking us there or back. I don't remember any, I remember whatever carpal we were in. So I don't, that wasn't even the issue for me. But when I got done out of school, it was me and that. Mom worked 12, 14 hour days, and they were mostly at night. So see you. She's gone in the morning, I don't see her again. When she comes in, she's going to bed. So daddy cooked my meals. This is like 14 plus, mind you. But no, he didn't pick me up. But I was never mad at him. I knew he was asleep. I knew I'd have to call. Hopefully he'll answer. But I was more irritated that mom wouldn't let you get a ride home with somebody in her neighborhood. Because, you know, she doesn't know that. Daddy was never my I was mad at him. Poor thing was he was late. He was tired. I know, I be mad at him. Because you knew you needed to pick me up. And we live 15 minutes away, everybody's gone, and I'm waiting with the principal, and it's dark outside, and he's looking at me, and I'm like, I called him, he didn't answer. I don't, I don't know what to do. Just that anxiety-provoking somebody is waiting on me, or someone is waiting on daddy to come and get me. It was just so embarrassing, especially when it was like, like you said, other people were getting off the bus and getting in their car. Or carpooling. Hey, can I get a ride?

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

And here I am sitting with the principal, like, I hope he remembers to pick me up today. Maybe this is why I shouldn't play sports. Because maybe if I left school at normal time, then like you said, we would have we were a part of a carpool, so we would have just gone home on a carpool, but game night or practices. Yeah, yeah. You know, we just we had very different experiences. We did. So going back to like elementary era, so in my world, because I'll put it that there, it's in my world, I started Livingstone's preschool, and I want to say it was like five. So I actually started, it was like a half a day. So for like a half a day, and then I would leave at like noon. Honestly, don't remember how I got home. I mean, I was super young. I mean, it was like five. Um, but I remember all of my elementary teachers and my high school teachers up until I left and went to public school. That's another story for another day. But specifically speaking of Livingstone's Christian school, one of the things that just as I look back on it now, does not make sense to me is the pops. You're still mad about the pops. I am, I am, I am. I mean, yes, when you say it out loud and you're like, you're hitting my butt. And I'm like, okay, I can get on board with you. But just in that day, we were we were getting spanked at home. So it was like, what's the what's the difference? I mean, today. My parents, you're a stranger, you're a teacher. It's a Christian school, so you kind of think like they're just doing what your parents would do if they were here, in my mind. I mean, I only remember getting the pops from the principal, not my actual teachers. I could have. I just don't. I got beat so much I don't. Like, who was the who was the best one? Um I just do remember when the principal had to do it because it was just weird. Because you know, we had women. Women teachers, maybe that's what it was. And he was so quiet. I don't know. He didn't really like give principal a like this tall, but like, no, he didn't really give that vibe. So it was weird. Kudos to you, Doctor, but no. I I just I remember getting pops every year, multiple times a year, kindergarten, first, second, third, all the way up until the sixth grade pops every single year, multiple times a year. I don't remember what they were all for. I remember a lot of them were like talking. Look at me now. But I mean, talking, and you know, I mean, I guess you could call it bullying. I don't really see that why. I stated facts. People got uh, you know, got an attitude about it. That's what a bully was in. I stated facts. That's what I did. But a bully was like no, I don't remember none of that. I mean, sure, I'm I'm sure I taught, but like I just remember going to school and thinking of school of like, oh, I'm going to have fun with my friends. I'm more socialized. Like, I two plus two, what thank God I was just naturally smart. I was not there for the learning. Not one grade. I was there to talk to people and hang out with my friends and stuff. I don't I I don't I don't remember any of that. Even in public school, it was like, oh god, okay, I have to find new friends. But it was like, once I did, it was back to like okay, socialize. Oh, I need to ride the bus because I need to get there at the same time so I can be in this group and I know where my friends are. No. School? Yeah. It's true. I gotta take a test.

unknown 12:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Attention vacation. What are you just can't? I no, no. Okay. I feel like studying was fun because you know, you and I used to play school, and you know, I could pretend like I was teaching you stuff, and so it was just like fun for me. I loved school. Studying was challenging because I would make up rap songs and you know, things so I could remember these tasks. And the sad part about it is some of those songs I still remember to this day, which is really sad, but that's how I remember things or flashcards, you know, flashcards. But I don't know. I liked it, like putting it on the index card. I do remember that. I don't know that it was for school though, to be fair. Maybe you were just doing it for fun. I'm telling you, I was like very like when I learned what Bohemian was, I was like, oh, I was very much boho. Like, do not care. Go with the wind, like I I could not have cared less. And then even today when I meet people, I'm like, I've never like the entrepreneurs that I meet and like networking and they're like trying to keep professional. I'm just like, I've never been in a fight in my life. And they look at me like, never? Not even with your siblings. I was like, please, in whose house, we were not fist fighting. What? No, because if if I ever pumped you back after the 39 million times of you hitting me, then I got me, not you. I really don't. I wish I remember telling you and the other society this, like I please forgive me because I'm not recall these incidents that you're referring to. I wish that I would I wish that I could, but I really have no recollection. I'm sure. I don't know. I'm sure I just wanted to be a part of the mix. Like I'm sure you did as well. Don't forget me. But I don't know all the things that I was doing to be remembered. Honestly, I feel like it's just natural little sister stuff, anyway. I'm I'm sure our my our older sisters were probably like, yeah, Beggat was annoying. I'd be like, I accept that. Because, like you said, I just wanted to be around. I just wanted to go where y'all were going and wear what you were wearing and do what you were doing.

unknown 14:20

Don't forget me though.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

I'm here. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't remember any of that. I'm just like, sorry, because I'm not number prior to 14. It's unfortunate. I do remember certain things. I remember like obviously the whole MW thing, which that is a whole nother episode. Oh my god. Just never having like name brand stuff. Not that the stuff was bad. I still remember those lemon cookies, they were top tier. Um I don't want nacho dusted corn chips instead of Doritos. Everybody just looked at me down the table and was like, oh, what is that? Chips. No, that that response didn't get me anywhere. It was, I mean, your parents can't afford Doritos. Oh girl, and then didn't uh I won't say her name, but her dad, her parents, well, you know who it is. Her dad, the one in my class, her dad worked for Frito Lay. Mm-mm. Yeah, in your class. But yeah, I'm sure you always had like the good stuff when we went to our house. Like, we I just remember seeing all of the chips, but like I don't, I just liked food. It didn't really matter what it was. I just wanted to eat it. I wanted to fit in. So it was all about why am I having to bring the lunch when all of the popular kids were buying their lunch? That's true. That's true. But my best friend at the time, her grandmother worked at the school in the lunch line. So I would always just be in the lunch line. I would just go through the lunch line with her and I would eat. So I mean, I'm pretty sure I still had my lunch. I always, I don't know how I survived truly, because that was precious school and then public school. I don't know how you survive either. I always got, I always like somehow got other people's food. I really just don't. And then by the time we moved to Umble, when I actually did start eating lunch, because at first I didn't eat lunch at all, I just remember eating like pepperoni pizza, a roll, french fries, chocolate milk every single day. I don't know how I had the money for it. But that when I ate, that's what I ate. And then before Jil Team practice, I would have peanut MMs from the vending machine. How I wasn't two pounds, and then I I don't know. I don't know. And I was still like the biggest friend in my brain breed. Thinking of it. This is still crazy because you were very skinny, very, very skinny. They were all like this, and just that's what people liked. And so I felt big even though today, at least, I would kill for that. But no. I never had any like nutritional food at school. Please, who's doing that? Scarlett? No, chicken finger, french fries, roll, chocolate meal. There it is. I yeah, I remember bringing tuna sandwiches and everybody like looking at me like, uh, you know, your language stinks. Maybe that's where the bullying came from. Really wasn't me. I was just responding to the bullies that I grew up, but sorry for those that are speaking up for yourself.

unknown 17:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Um, wiener sandwiches. I love wiener sandwiches. Not at school. Because they're gonna be like, what is that? Now, again, here we are 20, 30 years later. Hit, totally hits. Nothing wrong with it. Such good memories. But you're right. When I got to public school, it was chicken baskets, hands down, every day with the ranch. I would drink it. It's amazing. Yes, and the Otis Spunkmeyer. I forgot what I forgot who who started that. If it was like it was some kind of like fundraiser of some sort that they would do because it wasn't every day, but it wasn't in the cafeteria, it was like down the hallway, and there would sell Otis Spunker, and there would be like warm, like white chocolate macadamic. Oh, Jesus. I don't remember that. I mean, maybe I did. Warm cookies, I didn't. Oh, yes. Yes. So good. Because my core, my two core, we were the blaxicins. Um my core girls. Oh funny. You're one of the realtors for my house that I bought. It's so funny. So in Christian school, right? Or in let me say in private school, I don't feel like all private schools are like quote unquote Christian. Like preaching the word of God, and you're going to Bible class, and you have a credit where you're memorizing Bible verses, and at the end of the week, you have to write it all down from memory and you'd be graded on it, like we were in in our schools. So that's where this like cult type mentality idea comes in mind for me, because it's just like there was no options. There was no, well, you believe this or this, or we want you to have a relationship with God on your own. It was just very much like, this is what we believe, this is what we're gonna do, this is the music you will listen to. Like, there was this very, you know, no sex before marriage, and just say no to drugs and all these things. Nothing wrong with any of it, folks. Nothing wrong with it. I'm just talking out loud. It just if it gives off shoved down your throat, and not this is an opportunity for you to, I don't know, choose what you believe because it was all about what your parents believed, and that's how you grew up. And I'm sure that's like that for any generation. I don't know for you and me, like with our kids, I was very much like, yes, we did go to church until COVID, and then you know, things just got really weird. But I wanted my kiddo to have a relationship with God on her own. I would give her the information, give her the facts, and then let her decide what that looked like for her. I didn't feel the need to, you know, force, and I know that's just a strong word, but force her to be in the church setting every time the door opened, because that's how it was gonna get me to heaven, is if we were in church. If we were sick, we're talking about we're gonna pray over you and you'll be in healed in church. You will receive your healing at church. School is not you're not it was just in and church was all the time, you know, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, care groups. I think that things really started to shift for me when I finally made it to teen church. Because I did feel like, okay, those people are like me, they get it. We and one of the things that I saw in this like deconstructing religion kind of thing was how the Christian world and the secular world like mirrored each other, especially when it came to music. So for example, the the secular world would have Christina Aguilera. The Christian world would have pronounced it, Rachel Empa? Rachel Lampa and Stacy Rico. I love Stacey. That's like the Tori Kelly for me. There you go. Tori Kelly does have a Christian. Yeah. I mean, I mean, when you listen to her talk even in interviews like on the real show and stuff, like she's you can tell she's very much like in her faith. And that drives her. She just happened to make songs about love. Which is crazy because you think, like, oh, she's making songs about love. She's not a Christian. What? Huh? Like, where did that mentality come from? Like, if I say dang, that's too close to the bad words, I'm going to hell. What? What kind of God do you serve? Oh, my gosh. I was talking about that yesterday with one of the Christian artists we used to listen to back in the day. And again, down my deep dive. And I was like, oh, whatever happened to him. And it was like, oh, well, he had to take back all of his awards. And, you know, he he was dropped from the labels and everything because he had an affair. Like, what? What kind of God do y'all serve? That you make a mistake. I don't care if the women I had sex one time. I had sex 25 times. I had sex 10 years. But we have now ostracized you from the church, from the faith, from everything that you grew up knowing because you made a mistake. And now you are being, what is that? That scarlet letter, like you've now been labeled as you are no longer of the Christian faith because you made a mistake. But then they say, like, you know, oh, God is a forgiving God. So if you guys that's not forgiving, it's you. It's you that's not forgiving that. Or like rededicate your life. What are we rededicating if you've kicked me out? That's what I'm saying. I don't know. So many questions. So many questions. But that's not, it's not like explaining. There's no nurturing of like, okay, I made it, it's like I said, it's more restrictive, like the rules and what we can't do. But what happens when we've done it? You're giving an example that, like, oh, well, you can't be a part of us, which means whole butt. But it's just like, am I not accepted anymore? I remember telling mom, like, well, I just I guess I never really believed that I was saved because I was having sex. And she was like, oh my god. Like, I'm like, well, yeah, hello. Like, I I got baptized every time there was baptism because I thought, like, okay, just in case. But um, I don't know. I just felt like I didn't really feel like I would I was getting all the Christian that I could get because I was still doing things that they said was wrong. Right. Not that I'm saying it's right. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, okay, I've done this stuff, now what? Right. Still saying hell, like there's no coming back from it, then I might as well just keep doing it. Because if you've already decided my fate for me because I made a mistake, or not even, I don't even want to like necessarily label it a mistake. I'm just gonna say there was a choice. There was a decision made, and here we are. I mean, but in all actuality, I can't tell you how many times I've probably, you know, encouraged my kid to, you know, like be honest with me, be open with me, tell me what you've done, because it's like I'm not going to shun you. Yeah, I'm not going to tell you that you're going to hell because you like a girl. I don't care. I love you. And at the end of the day, which is what I wish our parents and the church had taught us back in the day, is that at the end of the day, you stand in front of God on your own. Not with me saying, Well, I told her not to do that and she did it anyway. So here we are. No. I'm responsible for my decisions just like you're responsible for yours. And if God, like you said, is a forgiving God, then even if I make a mistake or I make a decision and it doesn't end out well, hello, that's what grace is for. I'm able to turn around and be like, you know what? Oops, I probably shouldn't have done that. Or maybe I should I handled that wrong. God will you forgive me. But you're right. There's plenty of times, especially in that like elementary middle school phase where I was absolutely like, you know, and they're like, raise your hand if you would like re you know, just in case I said something wrong or I I had some impure thoughts about something. I mean, I can't tell you how many impure thoughts I really had. But I don't know. There's there's just a lot there. There's a lot there. Yeah. I mean, we did that in like as kids, but then they're like shunning the adults and kicking them out. And it's like you're what we have to look up to in the like in the earth. So if this is the example we're given, but you're telling us a different thing, at some point we're gonna realize these two don't match. And now I'm confused. And then I'm just like, I don't I don't have the desire to learn anything else because this has been so embedded in me. So when it's like, oh, are you going to church? What for I'm already going to hell. I mean like that now, but I feel like I think it's so much more in this from my couch. I know that sounds terrible, but like I'm not distracted, I'm not looking at these people shouting over here or the hour-long praise and worship. That's all another, that's all another thing. But you expect me to stand for an hour on praise and worship, and then you have eight different people praying a different prayer, and then we were sitting down finally, we're comfortable, and then we're doing ties now, and now we're singing a different song, and we're doing a different prayer. Why was this not all done the first time? Where's the efficiency here? This we gotta stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, hug another, hug a neighbor, give a neighbor a high five, tell your neighbor you look good today. I'm not trying to do none of that, but I will say what is what do they say a lot? Especially in you know, churches. Um, I wish I had a church. Where did we go? We're still here. What do you mean? Like, I don't know. It's just a lot of like the for me, it's like a lot of negativity. Like, oh, because we didn't shout, now we're we're told like you don't have a church, and I wish somebody in here would just see just preach this. Yeah. I think it's more indicative of like us not growing up in a black church. These things are not normal to us. So, like, can you just like just preach the like the like the message and don't make me shout and say a bunch of things at different times and that's the wrong neighbor, turn to the other one, walk to the next aisle. I don't want to do none of that. And I do love the Lord. I do, but I want to get what I need to get, and like let's cut off the foolishness. And honestly, at the end of the day, I'm going to church. I mean, I know there's this like conception of we're going to church to fellowship and be with like-minded people. Wah, wah, wah. That's cool or whatever. Um, but I'm going to church because I need a word. I need something to fill my bucket up to make it through this next week with these hooligans that I work with and being a single parent and all these other fun things that are going on. I need someone to speak to me. So I understand the like the draw, if you will, to like doing it virtually because you're right, there is no distractions. I don't have to hug a neighbor and do all this. And I don't have to listen to an hour-long uh praise and worship team that I, you know, Tamara and I, I mean, you and I have grown up with like music ingrained in us. So anytime there's an off note, an off-key, that's all I can pay attention to the rest of the service. I'm not listening to anything else. I'm only listening to, that note was off, or you know, did we sing this song like yesterday? Or why does one song last eight minutes? And like what, like for me, the yelling, I don't know if it's just because of my childhood and then subsequent marriage, but like once you raise your voice, tuned out. I can't follow along. I still can't follow your um you lost me good. Um, and then it's like, you know, when I watch it on YouTube, it's like, okay, I can cut out the praise in worship once you pick up wooden hollering. And then, like, okay, I can fast forward through times the mouth, like, I already know how to give, it's out of like great. And then I can just get to the beat of the message. But then once you get to the end of your message and you're still like then you start singing as the pastor, please. I gotta know about that. I can end it because I've got what I need from the message because your singing is also now. I think it's hard to find like a church that has all the things that you want, right? Because everybody is different. Like I went to a church back in the day called Abundant Life, and Fred Hammond's brother was the uh song leader. My older sister and I would go to that church specifically for praise and worship. And then he would bounce because it would be like that's what that's what we came for. You left after praise and worship. Loved it. Loved it. So I'm like, if I could get him, right? Can I get like a Fred Hammond praise and worship with like a Priscilla Shire message? Because the way she teaches, I get it. I understand it.

unknown 32:47

I do.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

And I feel like that's the perfect church for me. It does not exist. So you're right, it's almost like you're making your own church. I gotta make my own church. Yeah, because I mean I I've been to some that I liked the message, but then they would give out like the like I don't want to say pamphlet, but they would give out these things where you fill in the blanks, I guess, to make you pay attention. And that's great for like new Christians. So I'm really cocky right now. But at the time, yes, girl. Uh it is to make a church when they have other chains. Um, but at that time, I was like, oh, I already know what they're about to say. And they're like, I would know before they put it on the screen. And then it was like, okay, I don't know that this is for me because it's very surface level, maybe because it's so huge. And so it wasn't, I wasn't really feeling like convinced it, like I could be there or not, and I'm not feeling any different. And so for me, that wasn't, I was like, okay, this isn't this isn't the one for me. They don't do that now. Um, but they did like 10 years ago, and I was just like, hmm, this is a great, like my kids were little, they loved it. It was very good for like kids' ministry, but for me as an adult, I felt like I knew soon so much word already, like this didn't serve me. And then the songs were like, I call them garage band songs. You made this up in your garage. It was very like, and I love a good emo rock situation. I'll try it out. I love it, but we can't sing along to this because like you made it up in the garage. Um, it was just very odd. Like, I don't know. And then some people at Gibbon Church is like everybody can't feel like rabbit to it. Everybody can everybody can't sing. I was like, no, they cannot. Please don't. Because you have people like me and you in the audience that are like, no, that's odd. That's not it. No offense. I'm glad you love the Lord. I'm glad you're serving. Because I do feel like that's a thing too. It's like you have to go to church, and then once you're then you have to become a member. And once you become a member, then you have to like serve. And it's like, who's serving me? Thank you. Like you have to like be accepted into the the groups, and it's like, but you don't what if I'm not gonna get anything out of this? I still have to, and then I have to pay for it. Oh, that's a lot. Um, what was the other thing that I just didn't like about that whole oh if you weren't a member, like you couldn't dedicate your baby or something. I remember that being like a thing of that culture that I was referring to. It was like, oh, if you're not members, so we can't dedicate, or like same sex, they couldn't dedicate them. We were things. You are guess not. Um, it's just a it's just a lot of rules, but like you want, you're supposed to be bringing people to church, but you're just you're not really acting like fishers of men. Hello. How can we be fishers of men if you're only fishing in one pond? And the pond that you're fishing in is the one where everybody is following all the rules. We don't want to dip into the pond where people are just out there living their lives that need guidance, that need support, that need, you know, a helping hand. No. When I when I would go um to the country with my friends, and and mom was like, Well, do they go to church? And that's like, well, aren't I supposed to be around people that need it? Like, am I am I not the light for them? Was Jesus only around other Christians? How are we winning people? It was just it was wild, but yeah. Good answer. That's a good answer right there. It can't be around only Christians. Not that that's what am I teastering too? Because aren't we supposed to go out there and you know spread the word of God? Well, how am I spreading it if the only people I'm around are people of like mind and like faith with the same restrictions that I have? So true. I know we are way past our time, but you can talk about this. So long. Well, don't forget to talk out loud, folks.