The In-Between with Elizabeth Cheney

In-Between: Understanding Neurodiversity & Radical Self-Acceptance with Alex

• Elizabeth Cheney • Episode 108

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Closing out April and in honor of Autism Acceptance Month, this week's in-between is about Neurodiversity. I have special guest and fellow neurodiverse friend, Alex Armijo, joining me in the discussion! Alex is an DEI thought leader, a disability, LGBTQIA+, and human rights advocate, and overall badass human being. 

Here are the highlights of the episode:

  • What is neurodiversity? 
  • What is masking? Why can it be problematic to your health?
  • Behaviors of someone who may be neurodiverse
  • Alex shares their journey on how they were diagnosed with ADHD, as well as Autism, including available resources for your to use too!
  • What is the RAADsS-R test? Check this out: https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/
  • Why social media can be a good place...sometimes; for context, Alex and I share our personal experiences with TikTok and how seeing real people discuss their condition helped us understand ourselves better 
  • Why knowledge is freedom
  • How we view our neurodiverse conditions as superpowers
  • Accommodate yourself! What this means and what you can do for you

I am so excited to share this episode with you all and hope you enjoy.
If you'd like to keep up with Alex, check them out on instagram @the.perpetual.hobbyist

Connect with me:
https://in-between.co
@in.betweenpod on Instagram
@elizabethcheney_ on Instagram
@theinbetweenpodcast on TikTok
The In-Between Podcast on YouTube

Elizabeth:

Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of the in between. I'm your host, Elizabeth Cheney, and we are finally here. I've been teasing it and I even recorded it actually. And then it actually didn't work, but y'all, I finally have it here. Alex Armijo, she is a fantastic friend. She goes by, she they pronouns, but she's also a thought leader in the DEI space, and she's a disability lgbtqia plus and human rights advocate, and just, I don't know, overall a badass human being, but she's joining me today on the InBetween because we have a very special topic today. April is Autism Acceptance Month, big fan. Love my autistic community. Love is so much. Uh, but autistic people are, are considered neurodiverse. And then I started thinking about neurodiversity and then I realized ADHD is part of neurodiversity and I was like, Whoa, what I'm missing out on some great content for April. And then Alex here. She is also neurodiverse. And then I said, Hey, friend, I'm about to leverage your, uh, your skill set and your expertise, and we're gonna have an episode on a podcast.

Alex:

And I love it.

Elizabeth:

And then we recorded this epic episode and, uh, then we had technical issues. Thanks to your girl. So, um, I am smarter now. I am better. And Alex is a. Thanks for coming back and re recording, but Alex, welcome to the in between.

Alex:

Thanks so much, Elizabeth. I'm really happy to be here again. Um, no, I, I actually, I'm so glad. I'm so glad to be doing this. talking about neurodiversity is one of my favorite things to do so I could do it all day.

Elizabeth:

I'm trying to think, like, how did you and I even get off on the topic of being, both being neurodiverse? I don't know. We, we, we met and

Alex:

don't know. I can't stop talking about it.

Elizabeth:

Maybe that's what it is. You're just, you're like, I'm bringing awareness to everything and I'm like, oh, okay, well, cause I just, I think we're talking about ADHD and I was like, I've learned so much about my ADHD in the past. I don't even know, year, year and a half. Thanks to tick tock of all places. And then I'm like, What have my providers been doing to me all these years? Like, you know, and then we just started talking about it from there. So, uh, very happy to have you back. Thank you so much for putting this in your schedule. I appreciate it. Also for everyone listening, Alex is like a superhuman. Like she is an ally, like capital A ally, but she's also an amazing artist. And whenever we get finished recording, she's going to, uh, put her social media stuff, uh, um, out there for you guys, but definitely go check her out cause she's amazing. But anyways, Alex. Neurodiversity. So you like talking about neurodiversity. Well, I'm going to give you my definition of neurodiversity Thanks to the internet and then we're gonna let you give yours because I'm sure yours is gonna be better

Alex:

so

Elizabeth:

So according to the internet Neurodiversity is actually not a medical term. I did not realize that it is a it's a catch all term for, for people who, what's my definition, for people whose brains differences affects how the brain works. So it could be medical disorders, it could be learning disabilities, it could be other conditions, but the term neurodivergence, neurodiversity is not medical. And I was like, Oh, interesting. Um, and I just think that's really cool. But it was something that it was a movement that came out in the 90s, aiming to increase acceptance and inclusion of all people while embracing neurological differences. And it's not about highlighting the deficits. It's just highlighting the differences. Um, so, yeah, I'm going to let you take it away now.

Alex:

Exactly. No, um, I really like that about highlighting the differences instead of the deficits. Um, you know, when I think about neurodiversity, I think about, um, it's really anybody with a brain who, which functions differently than what we consider dominant in society, right? And that can even vary from society to society, but we only have so much time today.

Elizabeth:

Part two and three.

Alex:

Part two and three. Oh, um, so yeah, it's just really if your brain functions differently than what is considered dominant, um, then you're under this umbrella. So what does that include? That includes not only ADHD and autism, um, or autism spectrum disorder is the full name of it. We've also got D. I. D. We've got PTSD, bipolar, uh, schizophrenia, down syndrome. Um, if you've got chronic, uh, depression or anxiety, you can fall into that category. And it's really just a way of identifying saying, you know, that my brain functions differently than what's accepted as dominant in society. And so I think that one thing that sort of. Occurs with most everybody that falls underneath the neurodivergent umbrella is that we're all needing some sort of accommodation or accessibility in order to perform in order to get access to the same things as our neurotypical peers. So, it's just really about functioning just a little bit differently, but we can accomplish so many things if we just have the right supports.

Elizabeth:

and information.

Alex:

And information.

Elizabeth:

let's quickly, well, actually, I'm going to hold myself because I'm getting ahead of myself already, Liz. I went over run of show with you before we started recording and I'm already going off. Uh, before we go further, there's one other term that I want to talk about, and it's the term unmasking. Uh, for everyone listening, we're probably going to use that several times today. So, Alex, could you talk about what masking is?

Alex:

Yeah. So, masking, can happen, uh, for many different folks in underneath the neurodivergent umbrella and sometimes it's even not, even outside of the neurodivergent umbrella trying to mask for one reason or another, right? Um, it's hiding ourselves It's mirroring other people's, um, actions and the way that they talk and doing things. So that way you fit in, right? it's, it's hiding those things that are not socially acceptable. Um, so that way we fit in. So we don't, we face less criticism. We feel accepted. I was just listening to Brene Brown and she was talking about, fitting in. is the opposite of belonging. And I really thought about that in terms of, you know, masking, right? We're doing, we're doing all of this masking to fit in. Right. And it's, it's really doing us in the end, a lot of disservice, not saying that we can't keep ourselves safe by masking sometimes, but fitting in is changing yourself for acceptance. It's masking your identity. It's masking what is authentic to you. And belonging. That's when we're accepted exactly as we are. Right, that's inclusion right there. Um, and so yeah, and so it's just, it's really for me. The thing that I'm most passionate about is the spaces of inclusion where folks are, are not only invited to the table, um, not sort of as that token. person, but, you know, we want to learn from you because you have a different perspective on life. We want you to be here exactly how you are because you are you, you know? So I think that's, that's really, um, kind of, I know it kind of went off into a little

Elizabeth:

No! No, not at all.

Alex:

thinking about masking in that sense of like, everybody does masking. A lot of neurodivergent people, um, mask without knowing it. Right, because

Elizabeth:

realize it.

Alex:

they don't even realize it and then when you start to realize it's like the, oh my gosh, the light bulbs going off. It's, it pulls the rug right out from underneath you when you realize the way that you've been functioning your entire life is not authentic and. Yeah, I mean, at least that's the experience that I've had is that, you know, I've just spent so much of my time trying to fit in and so much of my energy, my energy, right? My mental energy, um, trying to fit in, trying to make sure I don't say the weird thing, um, trying to make sure I'm not info dumping on my special special interest for too long. Um, trying to, uh, make sure that my stems are not. Being perceived as strange, you know, um, so maybe I'm choosing to do different stems that are more socially acceptable, like shaking my leg. Oh, good

Elizabeth:

like a, what, like, is that like a tick, kind of?

Alex:

sort of, um, a stem, a stem is something that you're either doing, um. You know, like for ADHD, a stim is when you're sensory seeking, um, and you're looking for additional stimulation, right? And then, um, on the autism spectrum disorder, um, stimming is, is a way to self soothe because you're overstimulated. For me, I have the best of both worlds. And so there's a lot of things that I do, um, that are stimming that I didn't even know because, um, They were socially acceptable, or at least I thought they were so maybe just like constantly popping my fingers or tapping my leg or, um, those kinds of things. Sometimes it can be clearing your throat a lot or, uh, for me, it's twirling my hair, which apparently people think that I'm flirting with them. And I'm super not. I just, I have a compulsion that I have to twirl my

Elizabeth:

like, I'm a neurodiverse girly. Do not take this the wrong way.

Alex:

I

Elizabeth:

That's so funny. Oh my goodness. You need you need a shirt that just says I'm a neurodiverse girly. I'm not flirting with you.

Alex:

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's exactly what I need. That's exactly what I need. Just let me twirl my curls in peace here. Ha

Elizabeth:

that some swag. So, you know you when you were talking about a mask and you kept talking about you or excuse me. When you're talking about masking, you mentioned several times, you know, my whole life, and I didn't even realize it. And then you mentioned how when people who are under the neurodiverse umbrella, you don't even realize you're masking. So on that note, because one other thing that connected us about neurodiversity is we're both deaf. Diagnosis adults. So can you, do you mind, are you comfortable, uh, sharing your experience with your ADHD diagnosis? And I know you haven't been officially diagnosed with autism, but you've done your own research and a lot of different things like that to get you to that conclusion. Um, I'd love for you to share. And then if you don't mind sharing as well, like now that you've had this and you can look back on your life now that you have these results, the right word, these answers, these

Alex:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

you can look back on your life and be like, wow, insights, girl, I like that a lot better. Uh,

Alex:

I'm

Elizabeth:

oh, this is why I was this way. Um, and then feel free to also share kind of some of the masking cause I do think it's important to highlight, you mentioned like masking is okay in some regards, but it can also be detrimental to your mental health. And that's where also understanding who you are and what's going on is important. So take it away, Alex.

Alex:

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, uh, so much to unpack there. for me, masking was something that it's a survival tactic, right? It keeps me safe in certain situations. So, and some people have some people, um, face masks. Have to do it in order to physically keep safe, right? You've seen that. I'm sure many of the news articles around different neurodivergent folks being in situations with, law enforcement where they're treated unfairly because they're. They're behaving in a way that is considered threatening to law enforcement, but it's, it's, it's a neurodivergence. Right? Um, so sometimes masking, if you're able to do that is a matter of, of psychological safety of physical safety, you know, intersection alities of, perhaps like being BIPOC and, and, uh, you know, having a different kind of world experience. Sometimes. you're trying to survive in a world where you've got so many things that are coming at you and that you stick out and you just want to blend in, but that leads to burnout in a really big way. And that's what happened to me. I mean, I'd already, I dealt with a sort of baseline level anxiety for most of my life, a lot of ruminating, um, and that kind of thing. And so I've been on anti anxiety medicine for a, for quite some time and, and I kind of made my, made my way through, but after I had my kid. and pandemic was also happening at the same time, just coincidentally. Uh, um, I was just, my demands, my everyday demands were exceeding my capacity to meet them. And that was taken up a lot. A lot of my emotional energy was taken up by masking because I'm constantly thinking about how am I being perceived and am I going to fit in? What's going to be the consequence if I don't? What's going to be the consequence If I just speak up for my needs, if I behave the way that feels natural and authentic to me, you know,

Elizabeth:

before that. Interesting.

Alex:

yeah. Cause, cause right. There's, there's consequences. There's all kinds of natural consequences. You know, not just, uh, say at work, for example, interrupting one of the consequences like I've had is, uh, having, my annual review. Reflect remarks around me being interruptive, which is a regular thing amongst me. And, you know, my sort of microculture of friends who are all ADHD and, you know, some, some or multiple categories of neurodivergence. You know, we bounce off of one another. We ask each other questions. We are like, Oh my gosh. And so I just truly didn't realize that it was being perceived as rude. Yeah,

Elizabeth:

ADHD, like, all my friends have ADHD, and I think you and I be the same. We can have 12 conversations going on in one sentence. And it's like, boom, boom. We're keeping up. We're keeping up. And like, so, I totally, I totally get that. Because,

Alex:

Right.

Elizabeth:

you don't think of it as interrupting. It's just like excitement. Because your thoughts are like, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. Like, all over the place. So, yeah. I get that.

Alex:

Yeah, exactly. You know, it's, it's, so it's like, we want, we want to be able to blend in and we want to be able to give other people the opportunity to talk to. Um, but again, there's consequences. Sometimes the consequences are people don't like you speaking up for your needs and those relationships change. And that's been a really, really, really hard one for me to, um, know, come to terms with. And so there's some give and take, but. If we're talking about masking and we're talking about continually staying in burnout, you know, your body can only handle that for so long, you know, before things start to go south, right? You get increased anxiety. Increased depression, you know, we know that the road, the road that, increased depression leads down. It's not good. And we're just beating ourselves up over and over of why can't I just people the way that everybody else does? You know, why can't I just human the way that I see everybody else? Um, and that's, that's really tough. That's really, really tough to not be hard on yourself, especially when you don't know that something chemically, chemically is happening differently in your brain than all the other people that you're perceiving. Also, we don't know what everybody's going through, too, right? Like, we, there's so many of us are out there masking, we don't. And of course, it's not as an intention to sort of deceive anybody by any means. You know, we're not going out there going, I'm gonna make you think that I'm somebody different. It's a survival

Elizabeth:

Right.

Alex:

you know?

Elizabeth:

Yep, it's, yeah.

Alex:

emotional situations, all kinds of situations, but you lose yourself, you know, so for me, when I lost myself, and I felt like my demands were really exceeding. Um, my capacity to deal with those being a new mom, being in the middle of pandemic changing jobs, um, you know, my. Yeah, it was, it was, it was a lot and I got depressed and I got more anxious and then I started seeing on tick tock, which I just figured out how to learn how to get on tick tock during pandemic because somebody

Elizabeth:

Yes, same here. Ha ha! Mm

Alex:

um, So then I get on TikTok and all of these other people are having this same scenario, not just because they've become parents, you know, but because we've all been put in this sort of worldwide traumatic event that now requires more energy than we have the capacity to give. And so what happens is this sort of dopamine slot machine that is TikTok, it,

Elizabeth:

Dopamine slot machine. If, if they need to rebrand, they should go for that.

Alex:

that's what I'm That's what I'm saying. Okay. So you've got the dopamine slot machine that is tick tock. Right. And then you've got all of these dopamine deficient folks who are like, I am struggling. We're all sudden sharing our same experiences and everybody else is going. Holy cow. Other people think this, other people have a hard time humaning, and then we've just realized that everybody's been masking this whole time.

Elizabeth:

And I would probably also like to add to that. And I'm sure you'd agree because of what most of us were having to experience during the pandemic of being isolated, being stuck in your home. Maybe you had some pods, but like maybe it's in your partner, you and your family, whatever. Um, Uh, you had a lot of time and energy to think and introspect about what is going on with you. Like, maybe you couldn't ignore things as much as you would have before because the normal hustle and bustle of life wasn't normal. Like, things were different. So you were kind of like, for lack of better words, forced to look in the mirror in a way. And you could easily be like, Ah, I ain't gonna do that, I ain't gonna do that. Or you could be like,

Alex:

my eyes.

Elizabeth:

oh no, things are, things are not good over here with Liz. Oh gosh, things are not good with Alex, what's going on here? And then you're like, On the dopamine slot machine, you're like, huh, could this be it?

Alex:

Yeah, exactly. So then you've got the algorithm that's tying everybody together and all of a sudden everybody not realizes because They're thinking that they have the same thing that everybody else does because they're faking it Which is like some weird trope that a lot of people put out there But but but instead it's like we found each other because for the first time we're hearing about ADHD autism other Diagnoses, we're hearing about the symptoms from the perspective of the people who are experiencing them and not the observer You And not the observer, right? Because that's how all the diagnostic criteria is written is from the observer's perspective. Has nothing to do with how we feel. Which, by the way, is why we so often are, not getting the right diagnosis. Because we're not describing it the way that they would. Because our brains don't work the same way!

Elizabeth:

And we don't know. We do not know what we don't know. Like, that's my favorite phrase when I'm like, I don't know what I don't know. Hello?

Alex:

Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, and I, I feel like the algorithm should have, we should like start investing in some sort of like diagnostic algorithm, but I'd be scared to put all my information in there.

Elizabeth:

True, true. It's going to get used against you

Alex:

already have like a very intimate understanding of my psyche.

Elizabeth:

Uh, TikToks algorithm is scary sometimes. And I'm just like, you know, I don't know how you got there. I'm a little freaked out to think about it, but I'm just going to let it roll because I've learned so much from you. Uh, but no, I, I feel that. And, and I just want to real quick call out. I love the way you explained about the first person experiences with it, because like that is. Almost verbatim how I, like, how I felt when I found the first few like, like ADHD videos where I was like, oh, wait, that's an ADHD thing. And I remember, and I, this might sound a little dramatic, but I don't, I, this is, this is for real. I remember the feeling I had, because for all those listening, y'all know I had my mental health issues during the pandemic, but it was feeling seen. Feeling validated, feeling, Oh my God, like I have judged myself on this for so long. I have called myself every name under the sun. I have tried so hard to make myself get over this or work through this. And it's like, come on, Liz, are you just an idiot? And it's like, no, you're just human. And there's nothing wrong with that. So, yeah, like, I know social media can be a dark, scary place, I'm not ignoring that, but there can be beauty, because there is, there's community there, and that's where you find your people.

Alex:

Absolutely. There is community there. Um, and just

Elizabeth:

with you? Like,

Alex:

well, that's exactly, yeah. I just found a lot of things that I was like, Oh my gosh, this is me. This is me. Wait a minute. Do I have ADHD? And then I start taking all the quizzes and they're all like, yeah, girl, you need some medication. And I, you know, and I've tried it with, and I've tried it without, and I'm finally at the point where I feel like I'm taking some medication. That's it. It's really, really helping, but even getting medication is a nightmare for somebody like me. Or you, what's ADHD? I mean, we're treated like we're druggies. We can't get our medications more than once. The other day I heard somebody was getting pulled over, uh, and the, the, they were trying to arrest them for having their stimulants. With them and being on stimulants while they were driving. I was like, would you rather them be less focused? What does that even mean? I don't think it actually went through. I think that it was like thrown out, obviously. But it's, there's so much misconception around stimulants and what they're for. And what we're, I mean, we're just trying to function on the same level as our neurotypical peers. Laughter.

Elizabeth:

I'm glad you mentioned that. We won't go too hard on to this, but I just want to say it is easier for me to get a like anxiety Xanax type prescription or even like pain pills than it is for me to get my Adderall. I have to like sell a lung just to get them to agree, okay, I guess we'll prescribe your Adderall. We will fill your Adderall today. It's like, thank you. You got to give them like your ID, your first born DNA sample, and then they finally let you have it. I mean, I'm being

Alex:

They got to be like, they got to make you sign a thing saying they're getting a stimulant. There's one brain doesn't work if you're announcing it to the house. And it

Elizabeth:

But your pinky hurts. Here's some hydrocodone. Oh, you went for refills. There you go.

Alex:

problem.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. Controlled substance. My butt. So question. What did you when did you get diagnosed with the ADHD? Was it during all of this and like during the tick tock era of the pandemic and it made you reach out to a provider?

Alex:

Yep. It was, uh, let's see

Elizabeth:

See, that real quick, that's beautiful. So through social media and community, you felt seen, and that prompted you to say, hey, you know what, maybe there's something more to me, and I'm going

Alex:

None of my, none of my, none of my physicians or anything like that, um, said anything and I wasn't in therapy yet. I just was going around beating myself up going, I'm bad at human being. Um, and everybody else is good at it. Um, and

Elizabeth:

I just love that. I just realized, I was like, you know what, that's a good call out, because, yeah.

Alex:

yeah, it's just, no, no, it just, um, yeah, it felt, it felt really good. If I felt really seen, I was like, oh my gosh, other people are going through And not even just like the, the, the stuff that's like. You know, for example, dyspraxia, which is, not being able to see spatial awareness or not having spatial

Elizabeth:

like the, yeah, okay. I thought it was the spatial one, yeah.

Alex:

yeah, yeah, So, that's one of the things I do, right? So, I'm like, not just seeing people going, oh, yeah, we're all dodging the furniture and stuff like that, but the really hard stuff, right? Like, the really tough stuff where people are going, it is hard. Is so hard for me to make sure that I shower every day. You know, things like that, where you don't even want to admit to yourself, much less anybody else, that you're struggling with things that are such basic human functions, or at least in our society they are, right? so I, I started to feel seen and I started to feel less shame and I was also simultaneously kind of going on this sort of anti shame journey anyway, because I started reading Brené Brown. It's like everything just kind of collided all at once where I was unlearning shame, and I was learning about masking, and I was learning about ADHD, and I was feeling seen and heard and validated, um, and then I was like, okay, I know I'm struggling. I need some help. I'm going to go get some help. So then I went and got some help. And then that didn't work because it was, through one of those online services where, quickly after everybody was realizing that they had ADHD, they all went to these easy sort of online services where you can get a very quick, um, diagnosis, you can get on medication management. It was really, really accessible, but they were over prescribing and they got shut down. And so the rules changed on who could actually, look, I'm stimming right now, the

Elizabeth:

I thought you were flirting with me, my bad.

Alex:

So the rules change on who could prescribe and who could be prescribed and when you could do it. And then what's, you know, what, um, do you have to see them in person and that kind of thing. So it became again, another barrier. To treatment. And so then I stopped getting ADHD medication, or at least stopped getting, Stimulants. I continued down the path of my anti anxieties. Um, and I was going through a really rough time in my life as well. And so, you know, cut to once I made some life decisions that were sort of me living my most authentic life. Um, I was able to then go to like a meds, prescriber, a psych meds prescriber and see them regularly and sort of titrate every med that I needed. So we started out on the antidepressants because that was like the most pressing or burning issue. Even though I felt like my ADHD was the most burning issue when I filled out that sort of, uh, I can't remember. It's like. GAD 7 or something that there's a like a standard depression form a standard anxiety form that you fill out. Um, and It was just like, really, like, it was scores that was really pointing to you're severely depressed and you need to treat that first. Like, that's the number one thing that we've got to treat because we're not going to be able to treat any of these other things unless we get that under control.

Elizabeth:

Interesting.

Alex:

So then I started doing that, and then I added on Stratera, um, which was a non stimulant for ADHD, and continued to increase my dosage, and, and, and so it's still, like, I had increased it, I was on a really good, like, uh, balance for my anxiety and my depression, um, But I was still really troubled, you know, really, really having a hard time with focusing and my hormones changed a lot after my kid was born. And that made a really big difference in, um, the presentation of my ADHD symptoms. Oh, it's like it. It went from, like, I'm functioning just by, like, the flying by the seat of my pants to I'm just, I can't function anymore. You know what I mean? And

Elizabeth:

I'm sure.

Alex:

my, my, my demands exceeded my capacity, because I now had a lower capacity and higher demands. Um, so it, it made a really big difference, and so I was really struggling. I was struggling with focus, I was struggling with my memory, and I really, really wanted to, Sort of have that same brain that I used to be able to do, you know what I mean? Like when I was high masking and when I was well supported and you know, all, all of the stars were aligning and, and I was eating well. And cause those, you know, all of these things that go into your body are things that make a difference in how your brain function, right? So exercises, you know, they tell you what's good for ADHD exercise. Uh, the right diet, which of course, we know is difficult as a person with ADHD,

Elizabeth:

Thank you.

Alex:

forgetful, having

Elizabeth:

a task.

Alex:

ADHD paralysis, everything's a task, demand avoidance. I mean, we've got so many barriers to keeping our bodies and our brains healthy, including the access to therapy and medication.

Elizabeth:

Yes, yes,

Alex:

it can get really, really tough out there. So, uh, eventually, uh, we've been just probably the last few weeks I've, um, started on new meds that, uh, have helped significantly and I've never felt more productive.

Elizabeth:

that's so

Alex:

So yeah, I'm feeling, I'm feeling really good.

Elizabeth:

when did you start to venture down the path of, could I be autistic? Cause I was listening to other podcasts earlier this week and I think I've mentioned this to you before, if not, hello, I'm telling you this for the first time, um, there was definitely a period of time where I thought maybe even I was autistic because like. I feel like ADHD and autism do have some overlapping, um, I don't want to say qualities, that's the wrong word.

Alex:

Oh, yeah.

Elizabeth:

like, the better term. And so I'm curious, when, when did that curiosity come? Like, when did you start thinking, maybe I'm also autistic? In addition to

Alex:

it was really, yeah, I think it was, first, the thought had always been there, right? But ADHD was easier to focus on. I could more easily name my, my symptoms and how they were impacting my life. Um, and it was sort of after I'd really accepted my, diagnosis as ADHD. Uh, being ADHD that did I realize and kind of give myself the permission to, continue to learn about myself. And through that learning and through the same dang process of finding people that you identify with,

Elizabeth:

Tick tock, deet,

Alex:

okay, tick tock. Yeah. I went, okay, this is too much to ignore now. I should, I should really. Look deeper into this. And so it was really just my own curiosity about myself at that point, because now I figured out so much about how my brain worked, but I had some gaps in there. And I really wanted to be able to explain to explain sort of my, my, the way that I think and why I do the things that I do. And so I, I did some research, and I found this sort of evaluation, um, called the RADS R. It stands for, um, RIFO Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale, um, Revised. That's the last R. And that, um, Is a test that has been put out there, um, to sort of fill in the gaps for adults that were not diagnosed in childhood, right? Because our symptoms are going to be different. We've learned different. We've adapted differently on how to mask, right? How to mask our symptoms, how to blend in for society, how to get a job if you can, if you're one of the 15 percent of autistic people who have a job, right? Those people tend to be higher masking. They also tend to have higher burnout.

Elizabeth:

Mm hmm. Right.

Alex:

This test has been sort of reviewed and looked at by, um, the psychology industry, and it's really been found to be pretty reliable because of its efficacy in providing diagnostic support, um, for these adults with, um, you know, ASD symptoms. And so it just sort of was implemented to to fill in those gaps. And it's a, in a sort of self reporting questionnaire, although I will tell you as somebody who, um, evaluates things as it takes them very literally, which is an

Elizabeth:

do too.

Alex:

Yeah,

Elizabeth:

My gosh, I hate those like scales like 0 to 5 and I'm like, Oh, this is so bad. I

Alex:

yeah. And I'm like, but there's so many issues with the way that you've heard of the question. Can I have a different question?

Elizabeth:

Same! That's why I'm like, do I believe personality tests? Because like, I overthink all the answers. And I'm like, so is this really fair? Because what if they meant it this way, and I interpret it that way?

Alex:

Story of my life. Story of my life. Let me take it. So then I take this test, like, 18 times, because I'm thinking, I've got the wrong, I've got the wrong thing. So like the scale,

Elizabeth:

out.

Alex:

autism is a spectrum. I would like to remind you, autism is a spectrum. However, the RADS R test has a scale of zero to 277, where 65 is sort of that marker, that indicator that autism may be prevalent. So that's six, zero, 65. It's like, we're going to say that's pretty comfortably autistic, meaning it's somebody who's not autistic. Like. My latest score was a 155 and I always score kind of around there.

Elizabeth:

All right, so she's still taking the test y'all. She's still trying

Alex:

I, I just got to check to make sure I didn't misinterpret. Here's

Elizabeth:

just need to make sure one more time because i'm beating myself up. I just need to make sure yeah

Alex:

make sure because then I get the imposter syndrome about it. Am I just making this up? Why would I make it up? I don't

Elizabeth:

that's a very fair, but that's a very fair statement to say it is

Alex:

It's like, sometimes you feel like, especially because everybody else around you, there's all, there's so much, um, talk about how people are just faking autism or they're faking

Elizabeth:

like you're not allowed to do it. You feel like you're not allowed to be

Alex:

yeah, I feel not allowed to, especially being somebody who has.

Elizabeth:

that

Alex:

relatively low support needs compared to some of my autistic peers. So, you know, I, I, I will caution though with this RADS R test, it's supposed to be taken with the, under the direction of a professional, right? Um, a mental health care professional. And so you really, that is kind of, um, when you talk about accessibility, right? That's not always accessible to everybody who might need it. I think that they have my that excuse me, my words are getting ahead of me that they might have autism. And so, This test was easily accessible to me at a time where therapy, medication, um, and diagnostic, like a, a, a diagnostic evaluation was not easily accessible. That can cost thousands of dollars and it takes privilege to get there. Right? So not everybody has the access to those kinds of resources to even get diagnosed. Um, for me, I think that at this point, I am, I'm not really seeking any kind of accommodations specific to struggles that I have, um, From ASD alone. And so I don't feel the pressure to go out and get diagnosed, but some, some people really just want that, that validation, right? Because we're so in our heads about, am I just making this, am I just making this up? Am I just being a baby? Am I, am I just not humaning as well as

Elizabeth:

Am I not good enough? That was something that kept reoccurring in my head was, am I just not good enough? Am I not smart enough? Am I just lazy? Like, what is my problem? Like, Oh, I'm just a procrastinator. I'm just lazy. I'm, I am lazy. I, it's my own fault. And it's like, why are you putting so much pressure on yourself? You're not lazy. You're doing 20, 000 things, but somehow you're convincing. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's unhealthy. Um,

Alex:

it's so hard not to beat yourself up. Although I heard this thing on the radio. I've heard it before but it was just kind of on the note of Beating yourself up, right? We all have a tendency to beat ourselves up. We're our own worst critics, right? And when we're telling ourselves those mean things and we're really stressed out about something, um, I, this kind of somatic Tip is to put your hand on your head and your heart Take a couple of deep breaths and ask yourself, how can I be a friend to me in this moment?

Elizabeth:

That feels comforting.

Alex:

It does. It's like giving yourself a hug, right? How can I be a friend to me instead of an interrupting that mean, nasty voice, right? that, that is constantly telling us lies. Really? They're lies. Full of baloney. Don't listen to your

Elizabeth:

can confirm, because once I learned it was ADHD, I was like, oh, it's not Liz. It's ADHD. Yeah.

Alex:

And think about, think about the power that that has. So when you get diagnosed, and this is exactly what I was talking about, some people go and get diagnosed because of the validation that it brings, because now you're not blaming yourself. And sometimes it takes more than just a self hug and a deep breath and a mental state change to, um, get yourself out of that headspace of. It's just my fault, because when you're just blaming yourself, you're not able to really push yourself forward. Right? Um, and so

Elizabeth:

Not at all.

Alex:

it's just kind of counterintuitive. It doesn't do anything to help it harms your confidence. It makes it harder for you to do the thing that you're trying to do in the 1st place. Um, so it's really, it's really just not helpful. And so I've learned to try and be more of a friend to myself and act like I would expect anybody else to treat me.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely. You know, one thing that I was, I saw multiple times when I was reading about neurodiversity, like, uh, prepping for this episode. And it's also things that I think anyway, in general, um, I just lost my train of thought. Help me find it back again. I know. Oh my gosh. Give me one second. Was I going to say,

Alex:

gone! It's gone!

Elizabeth:

totally lost my train of thought. Oh,

Alex:

That train is gone. Oh, yep.

Elizabeth:

Found it. She found it. The train, the train had to hit me. We're good. We're good. Okay. Wow, there we go. Um, Sorry guys, um,

Alex:

is how it is. This is our brains. All the time.

Elizabeth:

You didn't realize you're gonna get an inside peek, did ya?

Alex:

Oh yeah.

Elizabeth:

Hold on.

Alex:

The worst is when I'm presenting and I forget what I was gonna say. And

Elizabeth:

oh Yeah,

Alex:

on things and I don't even, yeah.

Elizabeth:

Being a podcaster, being neurodiverse is quite interesting sometimes, because that typically only happens to me when I am like on someone else's podcast. And then I'm just like, I know I just met you and I am brain farting. I'm sorry. And like, sometimes I don't know how quick I'm going to get back, you know, or I'm just like, well, let's just keep sailing. Let's just keep going. And then I remember the thought an hour later and I'm like, damn, damn it. But

Alex:

I had remembered it earlier.

Elizabeth:

right. And I'm like, that was epic. But anyways, the thing I was going to say is, and I, I believe already. One thing I said at the beginning was talking about focusing on the differences of the deficit and, what it's like to be neurodiverse and your, your brain just kind of functioning differently. it's also viewed, or let rephrase that. I saw it mentioned multiple times and I agree with it. Whatever neurodiverse. Disorder condition you have under the neurodiverse umbrella neurodiversity umbrella Most often it can be used as a superpower and that it was really beautiful to see that mentioned across multiple types of scholarly articles or or Harvard Health or the Mayo Clinic and in talk about You know, yes, you may be different, and it gave, it would give different examples of, of somebody who's ADHD or somebody who is autistic or somebody who has dyscalculia, which I didn't even know that's dyslexia for math, didn't know that was even a thing, and viewing it as a strength. And I think that's beautiful, and I want to mention that because we have talked heavily about how we've judged ourselves because we, we didn't understand ourselves, a misunderstanding of sorts, right? And so, You finding that forgiveness to yourself that and think the unshaming of the of you and realizing Oh, I'm not not humaning. I'm just humaning differently and then you start to see well I'm also like kind of a superhuman in a way and you know I've always described my anxiety is that sure it is a pain in the ass a lot of the times I'm not gonna deny that I'm not gonna gaslight myself, but it allows me to it or And this is my own opinion, but I have, I've reached, I've reached different depths of my empathy and, you know, and like being understanding of people because I've overthought every damn thing in my life to like a fault. So, also, I'm hyper aware, sometimes that's annoying, but then also I've noticed how in my work, like when I, at my job, That hyper awareness is actually extreme complex problem solving skills. Like, I am so good. My

Alex:

Yes!

Elizabeth:

to see things is unlike anybody. And it's interesting, because like, my bosses would say, you're like Walt Disney. And I'm like, okay, that's a huge compliment, but do you know what the hell you're saying? Because like, and like, it's just, I can't even necessarily describe sometimes how it is because I can just see things but see through my lens I think well that was easy. Why didn't you see that? But everyone's like you and I'm not sure like get into like a braggy moment I'm just trying to say

Alex:

No, yeah.

Elizabeth:

judged ourselves for Once you start to shift that narrative, and you start to see things differently, and you start to unshame, and then you're like, oh, wow, but also, cool, I got some terms for what's going on, but I'm also

Alex:

Uh huh. Yes.

Elizabeth:

I can, I can, I can juggle a lot, a lot of projects. Yes, I've had to learn that sometimes I can't juggle a hundred of them. I'm more of like a 75, 65 kind of girl. But like, That's a skill set. That is a that is a superpower. For anyone listening who maybe anything we're saying is like starting to like make you go, Hmm, I kind of I feel that or, Oh, my God, I know what they're talking about. Tick tock. I'm on that algorithm right now. And that's how I'm starting to feel. The main point of this conversation is to bring awareness, to just introduce the term neurodiversity, but to also show you, like, if you could be neurodiverse, it's not the end of the world. It's actually maybe the beginning of something beautiful in a way. Um, so, yeah. That was the thought I

Alex:

me, it's big. That's perfect. Exactly. Exactly. You know, and, and it really, I love the thought that it's a superpower, but more so I think that it kind of coincides with the, the idea that. People with disabilities, whatever disability is, if it's a cognitive, a learning disability, a physical disability, a seeing disability, hearing disability, whatever it might be. People who have disabilities are accustomed to, or get accustomed to, navigating a world that is not made for them. Right? If the world were made for you and I, our start times at work would be a lot later, and they'd be a lot more flexible.

Elizabeth:

Yep.

Alex:

Right? And so, we as people with disabilities, which ADHD is recognized by the ADA as a disability, Are used to navigating the world that's not made for us. And that makes us incredibly creative problem solvers. And so that's where your super strengths come from. Aside from being able to have like amazing pattern recognition, right? Which is why you have so many engineers in the like, uh, that are autistic. Um,

Elizabeth:

Didn't even think about that. You're so bright.

Alex:

it's such a, it's a really, really good, um, role, you know, because you have so much pattern, there's a lot of pattern recognition in autism. There's a lot of, uh, you know, being hypersensitive, right. That's going to be really, really helpful, especially if you're in a role that you need to help people. Right. You need a help. Maybe, maybe you're, um, hypersensitive and you're, say, a nurse working in a, um, an emergency room and you're able to kind of like suss out who's really, really needing something, but they're not saying what they need, you know, because you're hypersensitive, hyper in tune with what they might need. So, again, these things that we really, really struggle with can also be. incredible tools if we learn how to hone them.

Elizabeth:

And all that comes from is acceptance and knowledge and like understanding you. And you know what? Don't be embarrassed if it comes from TikTok or social media because you're listening to two pretty badass chicks and we're telling you right now, Oh, that's how we figured out who we were and how we are actually human.

Alex:

exactly. Exactly. You know, and of course, like I went off and did, uh, as an autistic person does did a massive amount of research into every corner, uh, of the internet and every corner of the bookstores to find out more about autism and

Elizabeth:

Mm hmm.

Alex:

A, why I didn't understand it till now, um, and B, you know, just sort of how I'm understanding how my mind works. But I think that one of the big things that I learned is that, you know, when, when you and I were kids, there was not a lot of, there's not a lot of study into, um, specifically, Children who presented as female and, there, it was mostly boys that they studied. It was mostly white boys that they studied. So BIPOC people were left out of the mix and women and non binary and other folk were left out of the mix. Um, because They were only studying the, the traits of a certain subset. Now, when you're in a group or multiple, you have multiple identities that are not dominant in society, uh, then you going to have the same. We're not gonna have the same research out there, right? Because we're, we, we have biases as a society on what we study, right? The same reason we have biases everywhere else. And so it wasn't until recently that they opened up those, that diagnostic criteria to include symptoms of people that were maybe high, more high masking, which includes a lot of women because of the way that we're expected to mask in society in general, right? Right. We're, we, we are far less expected to run around like crazy, um, because we've got all that hyperactivity going. So guess what happens? It turns out it happens in our head. The hyperactivity happens in our head with the rumination and the constant thoughts and the tornado that happens inside my brain.

Elizabeth:

It's the one thing I don't like

Alex:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

ADHD.

Alex:

It's hard to catch a thought sometimes, right? It's hard to keep it. It's hard to keep it, too. I

Elizabeth:

God, yes. Oh, there's my memoir.

Alex:

much.

Elizabeth:

Trying to catch, catching feelings? More like trying to catch my thoughts. Thank you.

Alex:

I'm just trying to catch my thought here. Because if you think about it, I'm constantly interrupting everybody else. Imagine how much I'm interrupting myself in my head. I can't even finish a thought sometimes because I can't stop interrupting myself.

Elizabeth:

I have this like, I've developed, I don't even freaking know, but this thing with my thoughts is like, well, I'm going to forget it. I'm going to forget it. Like, for the longest time, I resisted journaling and writing because I'm like, I cannot write as fast as I can process information. Like, I cannot write as fast as I get my thoughts out. I'm not gonna be able to do this. I need to type. I need to type. So I can type it all out. And how do you, that just came out like, like it, like I've learned, wow, when I start to write it out, it forces me to slow down.

Alex:

down. Ah

Elizabeth:

what I didn't realize is that my thoughts will kind of, ooh, they're not gonna completely slow down. No, it is still Speed Racer in there. But it is not, you know, Zero to 700 like year light years, you know what I mean? And I was like, oh, well I'm getting out my whole full thoughts and I'm expressing myself the way that I want to So it's total side note ADHD. I just made it thought of that a point. It's interesting also like the weird habits that you develop with your diagnosis or your condition and you don't even realize it because that was something that and I Still struggle with that like where I will You Maybe intimidate is the right word myself with uh, I, I can't do it because I, there's just too much going on and I've been really trying to work on grounding and like when I have that intrusive thought, it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, no, I'm good. Let's just control the situation, um, because that will spiral me. Um, but yeah, it's,

Alex:

self limiting thoughts, right? Like, it's too much, I can't do it. Well, not if I tell myself I can't.

Elizabeth:

and just reworking that. Yeah. A lot, a lot of unshaming still, and a lot of just self love and nurturing your, your just nurturing yourself. Um, you're not less than,

Alex:

do. Yeah, it's so hard to do to nurture yourself and give yourself that same love that you give everybody else. And it's, it's definitely something that I have to, A, continually practice.

Elizabeth:

Oh, one thousand, one thousand percent.

Alex:

and I don't always do it perfectly. And I don't always do it in general. Like there, I still catch myself having those bad thoughts and I just try to change them as I can. Um, and, and. Being able to talk with people about it who are similar to me is a really, really helpful way to do that. Um, because again, you feel seen, you feel heard, you feel validated, and suddenly the shame which hides in the silence. starts to subside.

Elizabeth:

was beautiful. That was beautiful. Seriously.

Alex:

thought on a meme somewhere.

Elizabeth:

Seriously. Oh my god, I was like, we're gonna put that on a card. And then you're like, a shard on a meme somewhere. Oh, who said neurodiverse people aren't funny? I don't know, I don't think anybody, but I think

Alex:

I'm hilarious.

Elizabeth:

my goodness, this is hilarious. Well, uh, uh, what? Can't get my words out. Oh my goodness.

Alex:

the feeling.

Elizabeth:

right there. Um, one, two things, or there's two more things that I kind of wanted to talk, touch on before we end today's episode. Uh, But one is, and you've mentioned this several times, and I think we've kind of talked about it a little bit, but accommodations. Um, accommodate, accommodate, accommodate. And accommodate yourself, or accommodating yourself does not mean that you are less than, that you should be made fun of, like, you should be embarrassed, you should be ashamed. Absolutely not. Like, test taking is a big thing with ADHD. When I was at KSU, I had no idea, that's when I graduated college, I had no idea that they had a student success services center that for people with ADHD, test anxiety, all the different things, you could get this accommodation to go take your test by yourself. So, like, you're not distracted by everybody, because, like, absolutely not. I hate those

Alex:

sounds so nice

Elizabeth:

tests. Oh my gosh, like that would give me so much anxiety because I just it wasn't that I was dumb. It's just like I was overwhelmed. I don't know why that stressed me out so much. I hated

Alex:

you've got to take things in little more chunks. I, and it's really, and when you've got so much distraction around you, which the quieter it

Elizabeth:

the pins. They're like this.

Alex:

him. Like we talk about stamps, everybody else is stimming and now you're just distracted by everybody.

Elizabeth:

And then people start getting up and like, should I be done?

Alex:

I can't tell you how many times when I was in school, I got really, really distracted by the ticking of the frickin clock.

Elizabeth:

Oh! Yes! Yes! Cause you start paying attention to it, and you're like, Man, time is never gonna go by. I'm never gonna get out of this place. Oh my god.

Alex:

then, and then doing the test at the same time, and then you're just like, here, your time running out. And all you can focus on is your time running out. And

Elizabeth:

Right?

Alex:

ADHD specifically, the accommodation that they need is to take the test in smaller chunks. Because it seems too overwhelming. That's how I apply my accommodations in my own life. Guess what I do with my dishes now? It gets so overwhelming when I go in to do all of them. It is a sensory nightmare for me. I have a really hard time touching the wet food on the dishes. And, and I have a hard time putting my hands in the rubber gloves with the powder on them. I have a hard time with the water spraying on me. There's so many

Elizabeth:

I didn't think I had those issues, but you describing them, I'm like, Ugh, this makes me wanna cringe, so maybe I do. I don't know. Anyways.

Alex:

I've got a lot of sensory issues and dishes is like a culmination of so many of them. Um, and so what, so I break it up by just allowing myself to do a little bit of the time.

Elizabeth:

And not

Alex:

I only feel like.

Elizabeth:

that I didn't do it all.

Alex:

Yeah, instead of me going in there and doing the dishes from start to finish, I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to do as much as I can in 10 minutes. Sometimes I get everything done in 10 minutes. And then I realized I've wildly overestimated the amount of time that that task was going to take. Um, and then other times I, I can only get to a little bit in 10 minutes and I go, okay, I'm done. You know, if I don't gain the motivation over that 10 minutes and just want to keep going, I just say, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it later. You know, and just a little bit at a time, sometimes I heard this, don't remember where I heard this from. Was it you with the permission to? No, it was somebody else. Uh, somebody's therapist, one of my friend's therapist said, there's nobody gonna come in there and police you that you didn't unload all the silverware before you reloaded everything up. So sometimes I just leave stuff in there and I wash the rest of the dishes and run the load at the end of the day. And it's so freeing going, okay, no policeman came over and said, you didn't unload the dishwasher. But before I would never give myself such permission because like, what do you mean? I would not complete the task before you do the next task. What do you mean? So now giving my permission to just do a portion of the task to as much as I feel like doing is a really freeing feeling and it allows me to not have that shame built up around it. Even though I get there still sometimes, it's

Elizabeth:

We're human.

Alex:

Yeah, we're human.

Elizabeth:

and the more, uh, the more you give yourself that grace, the more you accommodate and you don't view the accommodation as like a setback or like a, like a handicap in a way, um, the more understanding you are with it. And then. I don't want to say, the more you won't need the accommodation, no, but then you're not even shaming yourself because you're not getting the task done or whatever it is done. Like, it's just, oh, it's just a flow. I just got it. I just got it. Um,

Alex:

eliminating, you're eliminating sort of some of the barriers to getting the thing done and it becomes easier. Because some of those barriers are that shame cycle, are the ADHD paralysis, are the perfectionism, um, you know, that I have to fully do everything in order to do it, otherwise I might as well do none of it. And that's Obviously, a false dichotomy, and

Elizabeth:

It's not all or nothing? What?

Alex:

Yeah, I know! It's hard to believe!

Elizabeth:

Shucks!

Alex:

that's kind of what I do, and then like, there's times at work where I'm, um, you know, working from home is a huge accommodation for me, and I want to make sure that all of my jobs, I'm able to do that. Um, but, uh, never

Elizabeth:

little bit here or there. If you need

Alex:

I like that!

Elizabeth:

team meetings, but like, yeah, in the office every week. No,

Alex:

I need to be able to get off camera and go from this, to You know what I mean? Where my face just falls flat and I physically lose the mask that I've just been putting on for the last hour and hyper focusing on how I look in front of all of these people instead of maybe taking notes or paying attention to the content.

Elizabeth:

Seriously.

Alex:

It's so difficult. So sometimes my accommodation when we're like on camera, especially being like a, uh, an organization that, um. Has a lot of cameras, a lot of camera, um, activity, you know, because a lot of us work from home. giving myself or asking specifically from my boss saying, Hey, it takes a lot of a mental energy for me to mask. And I'd like to do that less. So I have two days a week that I am a hundred percent off camera. That's expected of me. So I don't care what meeting I'm joining. I don't care what it is. I'm going to go off camera because That protects my capacity to do my job and to function and not burn myself out. And so it's a little accommodation that goes a really long way for me. Other accommodations that go a long way for me. Ordering my groceries and having them delivered, which I realize I have privilege and right, because that costs more money. Um, but that has a, that's an accommodation. I'm willing to give myself because. Again, with the sensory experience of going to the grocery store and all of the smells and all of the people and all of the sounds and. And you keep forgetting everything and you're getting nervous. You get anxious, then your stomach hurts and then you're trying to find the bathroom and then there's the smells of the bathrooms and

Elizabeth:

Hard stop.

Alex:

hate the grocery store.

Elizabeth:

Well, I hate public restrooms, but there's that.

Alex:

store.

Elizabeth:

Public restrooms, like, stress me out more than I think I admit to myself sometimes. And that's something I've recently kind of thought to myself. I'm like, is this some weird aversion? Like, is this part of my neurodiversity? I have no idea. But I get over, I don't like, I don't do it. I don't do

Alex:

It's really overstimulating. The grocery store is so overstimulating. So I get my groceries delivered and I realized that that comes with a lot of things like having to deal with substitutions that come through or not being able to look for the right substitution and stuff. But for me, the, Benefit of not having to go in and really drain myself because a trip to the grocery store is going to take me out for the day. I have no mental energy for anything else. you know, it's like a long trip. If I just go in and out, I can deal, but like, for

Elizabeth:

your week's worth of groceries, yeah.

Alex:

week's worth of groceries.

Elizabeth:

Feel

Alex:

stay in the grocery store for that long. I simply cannot. I am well overstimulated. Guess what happens when we're overstimulated? We go into fight or flight. Our body thinks that a lion is chasing us, and our stomachs start to hurt, and our heads start to hurt, and we start to sweat, and we're not making good decisions, and we're forgetting things. And so there's like so many things that happen when we're overstimulated, that we have to be able to really. pick and choose where we're going to spend that mental energy. And sometimes it's things that we have to, and sometimes we go, Okay, I could either do this or I could do this, and this is the one that I want to do today. So,

Elizabeth:

So better understanding your neurodiverse, diversity,

Alex:

mm hmm.

Elizabeth:

will help you, Find accommodations for yourself. It's not necessarily like, oh, you need to go to, you know, blah blah blah store and get that thing on aisle three and that's the accommodation you need. Maybe you do need that thing on aisle three. Or maybe you just need to put your hand on your chest and your heart and take a deep deep breath. Like, there's so many different types of accommodations. And also, like, If you do work with a therapist, if you do work with a provider, a health provider, they can help you with accommodations. You can ask about that. If you're in college, if you're in school, ask about accommodations. At work, they should have accommodations.

Alex:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And most accommodations don't cost a lot. You know, even some of the most, uh, the most heavy lifting accommodations are really easy to come by. Like, for example, for a number of reasons, somebody might need closed captioning, whether they're hard of hearing or deaf, or they have a sensor or they have an auditory processing disorder. Um, you know,

Elizabeth:

I can't

Alex:

Close

Elizabeth:

can't read.

Alex:

I can't hear if I can't read. It's a big comorbidity with ADHD and So I gotta read things cuz I'm sometimes I just glitch while I'm waiting for the like I heard the words It's not that I didn't hear them. They're still Computing. So,

Elizabeth:

I can't, I can't go without closed captions.

Alex:

I can't, so I turn on the closed captions on my teams. I turn on the closed captions on our Zoom meetings. And all those kinds of things. There's a lot of tools that are readily available. There are so, there is closed captioning on FaceTime. Did you know that?

Elizabeth:

I'm looking at my dashboard right now. I'm like, where's the closed captioning on here? And then I'm like, are me and

Alex:

have to go

Elizabeth:

are we done?

Alex:

tools. No, you have to go into your accessibility tools for an iPhone or an iPad. And there are settings that you can do to where you can have live captioning on your FaceTime calls. How cool is that? So I have that on

Elizabeth:

know that. So see, there's accommodations everywhere.

Alex:

There's so many accommodations, particularly in technology, that you already have accessible at your fingertips. You just need to learn how to use it.

Elizabeth:

And you know what? The statement I'm going to say to end on that note is knowledge is clearly the biggest accommodation because you don't know what you don't know.

Alex:

Exactly, exactly. And you know, and on that note, it's, we talk a lot about all of the self research that we have to do and everything, but they're really, Um, it is incredibly, incredibly helpful to get therapy, to get a meds prescriber, to help you get the right combination of meds and all of those require privilege and access, right? Um, but if you have access to them, like for example, a lot of employers, so many more employers than you might think have, uh, free, Therapy benefits, um, through their employee assistance program. And so, uh, it's, it's not like widely, um. Advertised at most places, but it, it's really, really helpful. They'll give you a handful of sessions and that gets you in to be able to try a new therapist, for example, or try a new prescriber that maybe you didn't want to waste your money on otherwise. And so, um, just taking advantage of those kinds of things. I think there's also, um. There are scholarships out there that you can apply for to get your therapy paid for. I have a friend who does that regularly. And so it helps with the bills, you know? Um, so there's, there's a lot of different avenues. Um, but definitely the first thing is just speaking up for yourself, accommodating yourself and, and making your voice heard and, and allowing yourself as somebody who's neurodivergent to take up space in the world,

Elizabeth:

Do it. Do

Alex:

do it.

Elizabeth:

I hope, I, I hope today's episode inspires that in you. Do it. Oh, speaking of, Alex, this episode, dang, it was great, if I say so myself.

Alex:

so. I think so.

Elizabeth:

mm. Aye, seriously. Well, before we close today's episode, do you have any, any last statements you'd like to say on neurodiversity, being neurodivergent, anybody listening who maybe is diagnosed or maybe is pending a diagnosis after this episode?

Alex:

I think my big takeaway would be just sort of radical self acceptance whether or not You know the thing or you don't know the thing about you, radically accepting that about yourself and going, okay, how can I support myself through this is going to get you through whatever, whether or not you have a diagnosis. And so just giving yourself some grace, being a friend to yourself, instead of. Like my own worst enemies wouldn't talk to me the way that I talk to me sometimes. So, you know,

Elizabeth:

it's true though. And we don't deserve that. Like,

Alex:

yeah, nobody does just

Elizabeth:

No one.

Alex:

to yourself. Give

Elizabeth:

If you don't have you, who's gonna have you?

Alex:

You're the only one that you have 100 percent of the time for the rest of your life. You are your own ally and it's up to us to act like it. You know, it's up to us to speak up for our needs.

Elizabeth:

the freedom that comes with knowledge, like, it's, it's powerful. I

Alex:

Mm hmm.

Elizabeth:

not trying to be so, so existential here with this, but it's true.

Alex:

Yeah. It really does. It really does. It is so freeing to be able to your authentic self, you know?

Elizabeth:

That's definitely a core pillar here at the in between authenticity and loving yourself fully. So. All right. Well, Alex, where can everyone find you? Because like I know I T I T's I know I said that you're also an artist,

Alex:

Mm. Mm hmm.

Elizabeth:

always sharing very, not just hilarious things, but informative things about being neurodiverse and things like that. So, uh, would you like to share your handles or where people can find you and keep up

Alex:

Yeah. Yeah. You can follow me at, um, on Instagram at the. perpetual. hobbyist.

Elizabeth:

the ADHD

Alex:

that 80, I

Elizabeth:

I'm dying, that's so funny!

Alex:

know, and it's so true. I've had so many hobbies my whole life and just all of these special interests, but art in any form has always been there for me. So, um, you know, I really enjoy it. I had a great show last. Last month at the Tucson erotic art show and yeah, and it went really, really well and I am just so excited to be amongst my community, really. So if you want to follow me, I can be a wild ride. Sometimes I share really funny stuff. Sometimes I share very dark stuff and a little bit of everything. In between.

Elizabeth:

There she goes!

Alex:

I will follow you back. yeah, I'll be excited to hear from you. Yeah,

Elizabeth:

don't let me rephrase that. Thank you so much, Alex, for joining me today. I really appreciate it. Um, I love the conversation. I love you and I love your perspective. And again, everybody, knowledge is freedom. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is a combination. So, go learn and don't be afraid. Uh, don't be afraid to look in the mirror, so to speak. So, there's that. Well, on that note, what a way to close out April. Dang, April Autism Acceptance Month. In the bag. Done.

Alex:

the batch.

Elizabeth:

you so much, Alex. Well, uh, I'll have to have you come back on the powwow to do like another episode. We'll do neurodiversity part two, and, you know, we'll go through more like, uh, traits, conditions, things, like maybe, like other, maybe we'll go over some knowledge to share with people, so, uh, and maybe that'll prompt them even more, but. Until then, thank you everyone listening. You can follow me at in dot between pod or Elizabeth Cheney underscore on Instagram and then at the in between podcasts on YouTube and tick tock. This episode will be on YouTube. So for anybody who doesn't really like to listen, they want to see more of a visual, your girl's got you covered. Oh my goodness. Well, on that note, thank you so much, Alex. And, uh, I'll see you again next time. Hi.

Alex:

Elizabeth. Bye.

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Elizabeth Cheney Stater

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