Greg Dufour, Camden National Bank (ME)

In this episode, the guys are joined by DCG colleague Keri Crooks for a discussion with Greg Dufour, the outgoing President and Chief Executive Officer of Camden National Bank. Greg talks about his 20 plus years with the bank and his stewardship of an institution that has grown from $2 billion (2009) to the largest publicly traded bank in Northern New England. Greg talks about the critical importance of hiring great people, the value of a strong culture, and what his future might hold.

For more insights and ideas, visit DCG at DarlingConsulting.com or follow us on LinkedIn.

Transcript

On the Balance Sheet:  S3 E1:  Greg Dufour, Camden National Bank

Transcript

[Vinny, 00:00]

Welcome to on the balance sheet Season 3 Episode 1­. And before we get into the particulars of the episode, I got to tell you, Zach, I think you and I were collaborating in our office in 2021 thinking about doing a podcast, and it's been such an awesome experience and we're really getting some positive momentum. There's a lot of people listening now and a lot of great feedback and quite frankly from a selfish perspective, boy, I've learned just so much.

[Zach, 00:33]

The same thing and I think the caliber of guests who have come on you know have been great and we certainly aim to continue that into Season 3 here especially with today right with our first episode of the Season we got a good one lined up here that will intro in a minute and we just want to thank all the listeners over the past two years who have been kind of listening in and for all those who give us some feedback too. We do take that really seriously and we think it's helped, certainly, you know, as we've been doing this for the past couple of years. 

[Vinny, 00:59]

Yeah, well said Zach. It's just been a terrific experience and I'll tell you, you're right. The caliber of guests has been what's really driving this show and this week is no different. I guess if there's something unique about this. This week we actually have a recently retired Chief Executive Officer. It's none other than Greg Dufour, who was chief executive officer and president at Camden National Bank. This was recorded prior to the year end. So, Greg has retired since. So, it's a terrific discussion. And Zach, I think people are really going to enjoy it.

[Zach, 01:34]

Yeah, absolutely. And we, we have the privilege of having our colleague, Keri Crooks, come to the booth with us as well. And so, between me, you, Keri and Greg, I think it's going to be a great interview. We're definitely going to talk about his long career, kind of what his plans are certainly next. But what he's learned and him he goes way back with DCG back with George over, you know, 25 years ago, really. So, we're going to definitely delve into that. Talk about what kind of made Camden, Camden, because they're 150-year-old bank, you know, for those who are kind of uninitiated with Maine and kind of their history. So, we're really excited to start off Season three with Greg and Carrie.

[Vinny, 02:10]

Without further ado, Greg Dufour.

[Zach, 02:16]

Welcome to On the Balance Sheet. We are very pleased to have with us today President and CEO of Camden National Bank and the beautiful state of Maine, Greg Dufour. Greg, how are you doing on this beautiful winter day?

[Greg, 02:29]

I'm doing great. Thank you.

[Zach, 02:30]

Well, we're so pleased to have you. We are joined by Keri Crooks and my usual co-host Vince Clevenger and great. The first question. We usually start off with most of our guests is, can you tell us how you got into the banking industry, your start and how you kind of ended up at Camden and then we can take question two and kind of talk more about your experience at Camden National.

[Vinny, 02:50]

Sure. Well, my journey into banking probably started after I graduated from college. I was born and raised in Maine, went to the University of Maine, and then my wife and I went to Texas to get our graduate degree. After I worked for Texas Instruments for a few years, we wanted to return to the East Coast and returned to Maine. So, I actually started with the Merrill Trust Company in Bangor, which at that point was already acquired by Fleet. And so that was my first foray and probably the real logical way of why I ended up in banking was because they were hiring. And so, I started my career. And as Fleet started to acquire it merged with NorthStar and then ultimately other organizations I left Maine and followed really those acquisitions. So, I went from Fleet Maine where I ended up being controller, I went down to the Connecticut Bank after Fleet purchased bank in New England and then I did a stint in corporate accounting and then became controller for the investment banking group and Fleet started that up in Boston. But in 2000, my wife and I wanted to make it, or 2001, my wife and I wanted to make a quality-of-life switch, and I was fortunate enough to be able to return to Maine, but more importantly, return to come to Camden and joined Camden National Bank as their CFO. It was interesting as CFO, one of my first meetings at Camden, was with George Darling. And it really started a great professional and personal relationship with him and the firm.

[Vinny, 04:31]

Great. Again, this is Vinny Clevenger. Thanks so much for joining us. Love to have you and I'm sure Carrie has probably shared with you before; George was a huge mentor. I have to ask as I always ask a lot of folks who worked with George, I think you know what's coming. What was your initial impression of George Darling?

[Greg, 04:49]

Boy, that is a loaded question.

[Vinny, 04:52]

Sure is. 

[Greg, 04:57]

Yeah, well, anybody who first meets George, especially back then it was the unfiltered George, but very bright, very smart. Yes, very aggressive. But then there was just something in him that he kind of paused and said I can learn a lot from this individual. I want to learn a lot from this individual and I want to work for him. And I think George, through everything, he literally had kind of a twinkle in his eye and smile that he would do even say some of the toughest messages and it just make you get drawn to him and again, form that relationship.

[Zach, 05:37]

So, Greg, you started at Camden in 2001 as CFO, can you walk us through the start of working with George obviously the 2001-time frame is the end of the.com bus or start of that and then you become CEO in January of 2009, is that right?

[Greg, 05:51]

Yes.

[Zach, 05:53]

So, could you walk us through just kind of that going through the GFC as the CFO and then becoming CEO, you know, for the better part of 15 years that you know, for listeners who aren't as aware of Camden National, I mean it's a 150-year-old bank, right? So how unique was that and can you just give us a flavor for how that experience was?

[Greg, 06:11]

It was an amazing experience overall and when I joined Camden, we were only a billion dollars of assets, so that was part of the reason why they went outside to look for a CFO, and so I joined it at a small organization. Honestly, I felt like I would be CFO until I retire. And very soon after I got there, Bob Daigle, who was the CEO at the time and again, another mentor, started getting me exposed to other errands after a while, he got a little strategic planning. A year or so later, he asked me to also oversee operational technology. Then, in between, I kind of noticed he would be inviting me out on customer calls, going to chamber commerce functions and I remember wondering – why is Bob taking the CFO out to these things? But I enjoyed it. Again, small Community bank and our smaller communities, so it was really a great experience. But after a while, you know, obviously I figured out Bob was testing me out for his own succession, which surprised me. So, I thought he would be working until I retired. And then in 2004, Bob named me President of Camden National Bank while he retained the President, CEO title at the holding company, Camden National Corporation. And I thought that was a fantastic job. I had the bank; Bob had the corporate responsibilities, and we formed a great partnership. But then, in a few years, he told me he wanted to retire relatively early and that really set the tone for me taking over for him in January 2009 and if we all remember January 2009, Bob had a great sense of timing. Me, not so much for the Financial Crisis. And since then, it has just been a fantastic time, even in the tough times, whether it's the financial crises or even more recently, what we've gone through with COVID, and the more recent turmoil it's been challenging. And through those challenges, and even through the good times, I've just been happy and have loved coming to work every day and I'm fortunate that as I'm wrapping up my time here at Camden, I'm loving every day still, which was my overall goal and to get to my retirement.

[Keri, 08:36]

Hey, Greg, it's Keri. As you know, you know my voice at this point. But I was just hoping maybe along those lines you could share with our listeners today a little bit of your maybe philosophy or you know just how you've really viewed and created such an awesome culture at Camden National Bank. And you know, I've seen it obviously and knowing you and the team for about 10 years no. There's just such a strong culture and just this level of, I was thinking about it earlier, a little bit of like, a charming kind of professionalism, Greg, with all your people. And just again wondering if you could share any insight on how you've maneuvered that with your growth through even the acquisitions, the branches, I mean, gosh, you've got to be, are you over 600 employees at this point, Greg?

[Greg, 09:22]

Yes, we are.

[Keri, 09:24]

Yeah. So, just anything you could share on that front because again, I just outside looking in or, you know, being privy to some of the things that you've done internally, just you've been done such a great job with people and culture and that's big here to us at DCG. So, I just didn't know what you might be able to share with us today.

[Greg, 09:41]

Yes. And obviously I've been asked a lot recently and I've been able to reflect on it and I would say first of all, the culture was here when I got here and maybe that's the first step is whether it's me, you know, in in my evolution to become CEO, fellow colleagues, executives. But even our employees, there is a continuity through our growth that that we say is the Camden culture and it's hard sometimes to articulate and point out why. But as I reflect on it, I think it first starts with our core values. And it is something that we've had here for many, many years. We had a set of core values when I joined the organization then. Now we've morphed them a little bit over the years. When we do, we take it very seriously, but at the end of the day that I think is one unique thing that we have. How we start with that really starts day one. Now I speak to every new employee orientation session that we have, and I just share my story with them, but I also share with them the key to success at Camden National is and probably any company is if your personal values align with your company's values, you will have a much better experience. But I also explain that we do take it seriously that the tough of the decision I make, the more I lean on my core values and the company's core values. To the point that if I make a decision and people may not agree with it, I know I owe them the duty that I have to explain how I arrive at that decision through the lens of our core values. And I'd like to think that sets that tone, that there's always that one thing that no matter what happens we can almost call each other out, say, is this meeting our core values? And if it doesn't, we correct it, we fix it and go forward. Fortunately, there haven’t been too many times when we have to call it. Put that out on the table, but I think that's the true test of management and a company and its culture is when you call out, does this meet our core values test and you say no, then why are we doing it? And then we don’t. And to me, I think that's one of Camden's biggest secrets that we have.

[Vinny, 12:14]

Greg. Vinny again. Listening to you speak to your values, I can't help but think how important they've always been to us. And we were talking about George Darling and how important he took those values. And many times, when you're presented with a difficult situation, you can defer to those values and they're kind of your guide, your game plan for how you should manage a particular situation. It's amazing how they really act as a foundation. But, I kind of wanted to ask you how you balance a culture which I'm not familiar with, but I got a feel for just with my discussions with Keri about how special it is. How do you balance that with also being a publicly traded bank, because you can walk in the banks where it feels like a family and those banks may be say a mutual or something along those lines, versus a publicly traded institution that has a lot of pressures that the mutuals don't, how do you maintain that culture?

[Greg, 13:03]

Yeah. And I think it's really the approach that we have. And if I had to summarize it, I believe I and most of the stakeholders here, we have a commonality that we feel very responsible. And I think banking attracts responsible people, we're dealing with other people's money. That's really the essence of the banking at the end of the day. But you take that sense of personal responsibility that's reinforced with your peers. Then you layer on top of that a sense of accountability, and that's where I get very comfortable actually being in a publicly traded company. We have to be accountable. Every quarter we file our 10Q and annually a 10K file. Our proxy statements annually and I tell people if you want to know how we're run, look at those reports. It is spelled out there and so every action we take we do have to say we've got to share that. So through that accountability comes transparency. And, we operate that way and I think that's also one of our elements that not only are we transparent to our shareholders, our owners, but we're transparent to each other because you can't do one without the other. And as I have conversations with our shareholders, the biggest compliment I get is if there's something going on in Camden, you tell us if it's not something that's right, you fix it and then you move on. And to me, I think that's the ultimate combination of responsibility, accountability and transparency.

[Vinny, 14:40]

Oh yeah, that's a terrific answer. Makes total sense too. Thank you. Looking into that very well. You know it is interesting because I can't help but look at the stock price and I'm just reminded of a quote. I don't remember, it might have been Jeff Bezos and think of him what you may. But I think he said – When your stock is trading at a high level it doesn't mean you're smarter, once you’re trading at a low level doesn't mean you’re dumber. It just kind of is what it is. I look at year to date stock performance, it's basically in line with the rest of the industry. And how do you make sure that you know your stakeholders understand that that is just kind of the reality of the situation of managing a public bank that sometimes you’re kind of stuck to the whims of which way the wind is blowing. I know that's got to be a very difficult thing in terms of messaging to the public in the street.

[Greg, 15:29]

Sure. So, first thing is, believe it or not, I probably only look at the stock price once a day. I'm not managing and making decisions based on the stock price. I'll go back to one of the directors that was on the board when I first got here. And he was from the investment world in New York, and a very, very smart person. And he explained that if we believe in our strategies. If we believe in how we, you know, positioned it to the bank, through capital, through our ALCO management. If we believed it, smart investors would find us. And it's not to say that I don't pay attention to our investors or, you know, and I do, I do outreach. I meet with them. But it's us telling the story and saying “I want a mutual fit for each other”. And yes, we can learn and fortunately I have some great conversations with investors that share the best practices they see, and we implement some of them. But it's also just, you got to be confident in what you're doing and then you know, again, smart people will find you. And now, in the scheme of the world, you get exposed to smarter people. And so yes, we do the investor conference circuit, and we have stock analysts, we do quarterly earnings calls, but again it gets back into telling our story, telling you our results, but also it gets back into that responsibility, accountability and transparency. That we do get, you know, reviewed publicly when we have our earnings call, on how we're doing, and I find it really exhilarating to do that, others may not, but to me, I think that's a higher standard than we live up to as a public company.

[Zach, 17:23]

Yeah, Greg, it's almost like the sports analogy where you don't always look at the scoreboard, you know, throughout the whole game, if you're doing the right things, you're making the right plays. At the end of the day, the results are going to be where you need them to be, right? You know, overall. And I feel like I don't even care for college athletes. We all have kids who are playing sports, so I think that’s a good analogy. You know from that perspective, so.

[Greg, 17:41]

No, absolutely. You're right.

[Zach, 17:43]

If you don't mind, I was going to pivot, Greg, a little more towards you, I mean, you've had a long career in the banking industry, mostly in the Northeast. Plenty of things have come up and plenty of challenges and opportunities over the last 30 years. What are you seeing as you kind of take your curtain call here as the biggest things in the next couple of years for the banking industry that they're going to have to be on the watch for from a threat income opportunity perspective?

[Greg, 18:08]

There's a long list and we probably all know them by heart. You know there's the technology challenge, there's regulatory and compliance challenges that we have not only from regulators but also the reason why we have some of these things, whether it's from cybersecurity, you know compliance and those things, it's a complex business. We also have the risk of asset quality. Fortunately, right now with everything going on, we’re in a very, you know, good spot, I think as an industry and especially in all the normal peer group from an asset quality perspective. So, if we go through those challenges, we can come back obviously more important for the work you all help us with is on the interest rate challenges that we have. But as I've reflected on all of those, I think one that doesn't get mentioned a lot is people. As I look back at my career and the opportunities and challenges, things that I've seen people do and I've learned from them. We're in this amazingly complex, challenging, intellectually challenging industry. If you want to be great at sales, yes, banks need great salespeople. If you want to be great technology people, we have all kinds of technology opportunities and so on and so forth. And if we have to tell that story because we need more people, younger people choose banking as a career, once we get them into the pipeline. And then they find they can create great careers and a kid from Old Town, Maine, like me, can be a CEO of an almost 150-year-old bank. That's an amazing thing to do. And it's just to get the pipeline of people in and nurture them, develop them and have our future leadership and that's where, you know, I do worry about this nuance that we're seeing now, or if you talked to any business owner, any probably CEO or manager, one of the biggest challenges is people, and we need to build our pipeline of people.

[Keri, 20:27]

Zach, Vin. I would just, you know, say Greg is definitely being a bit humble here as well and that, you know, I've seen him live at ground level. And, you know, his people are stakeholders in the bank and the company, but they also just feel like their job, you know, whether it's the person, the couple of people who greeted me in the lobby the other day, or the entire team behind the scenes, some of their new employees. I mean, they actually feel like whatever it is they're doing at the bank is critical. And Greg has done a great job of giving them shoutouts, you know, at stakeholder meetings. I mean, he's just, you know, he's definitely made them feel like they're critical to the mission and what they're doing, not only at the bank, but probably in the community as well, Greg too.

[Greg, 21:12]

Well, thanks Keri. And that's part of what I think is great in community banks and like the Bank of Camden size and similar size is that again we have complexity we can have great careers over 600 employees that if somebody wants to talk to me, I answer my phone, I respond to my emails. I respond to the chats that we have online here. And I think that's amazing. Where in a bigger organization, you're fighting through layers of management and you know the only thing that bothers me is if somebody calls me Mr. Dufour, because it's really great. And then once you have that, you can talk to people and explain to a teller their contribution that they've had in helping us get deposits over the past year. And then once they make that connection, and if they hear me, you know, in a big room of people talking about deposit growth and how we've managed our margin, but if they can say, yeah, I helped it because I helped get that $5000 checking account. That's the connection that's when that's when the real leverage happens.

[Keri, 22:25]

Well, that’s so critical, as you know, when you point out Greg, to the overall success of any institution, never mind yours, you know, have your people really understand what it is we want and what's great for the bank and how to keep moving forward and like you and I always talk, I mean there are plenty of institutions that have people who have never lived through a cycle like this. They don't understand that we actually want deposits. So, part of it has just been your ability to message quite nicely. But yeah, I mean, I don't think I shared with you, Greg, but even walking into the lobby the other day and one of your branches that I don't typically walk into. I mean, I was greeted by an employee that had been there over 14 years, didn't know me from a hole in the wall and just told me how great the bank was and how long he had been there and how he made the transition over from the Bank of Maine and was just so happy and he was side by side with a fairly new employee who was also equally excited to be there and tell me all about her story. So yeah, it's just people, Greg and I mean, that's similar to DCG values as well and like Matt George always said or Matt Pieniazek says now like, you know your greatest assets go home every night and it's so true.

[Greg, 23:29]

Right, absolutely.

[Zach, 23:31]

Hey, Greg, it's Zach. And speaking on the people front, Vince, going to laugh at this because you're probably the 4th or 5th person with Fleet on the resume and it just seems like there's a number of bankers who through the 90’s came through Fleet, whether it's their management programs or they got merged in there and there's a ton of leaders in this area, who came from that program. Do you think in terms of when you mentioned it a couple minutes ago about, you know, getting the next generation of leaders ready that we're missing programs like that or maybe more modern versions of that you know in the current banking structure?

[Greg, 24:06]

I do think we do. I think having more robust management programs or going back to what it used to be, you know would absolutely help. Not only in just the sheer pipeline but maybe a little bit more specifically when we talk about making our workforce more diverse. And taking people that, you know, are just from different backgrounds and may not have had the, you know, the traditional education that some of us have had in having those programs would help. And we do that here at Camden, we have what we call our horizon suite of leadership programs. And we run three different classes. You know, the 100 level is for our emerging leaders. The 200 level is preparing people for the mid management responsibilities, call it VP, or maybe you know soon to be Senior VP level. And we just introduced our 300 level program which is really geared to our experienced Senior Vice Presidents running big parts of our organization and helping to prepare them over time for their turn at the executive level. So, you know, we've addressed that by doing that in house in addition to all other kinds of things like tuition reimbursement and leveraging the learning courses, etc. And so, I think it is something you have to be very intentional about developing your employees. And then as well as I said earlier, recruiting them in because you got to keep the pipeline going.

[Vinny, 25:45]

Yeah, that's so important. Mentorship, you know Keri and I are both reaped tremendous benefits of traveling around with George Darling, you can imagine what that was like on a daily basis. It was kind of nice because I'd go somewhere with them and the next day I'd be with Keri. So, he’d forget about what I screwed up and then you know, Carrie doesn't make mistakes. But in all seriousness, I think that's so important. We try to do that here as well through a number of different sorts of initiatives. I got to kind of ask you a question. I think it's the most important question, maybe we buried the lead. Zach was talking about, you know, you taking your curtain call. So, let's get really serious here as you kind of step away. What is it that we can expect from you outside from, Keri says you'd like to get on the water and do some fishing and stuff like that. So, what is it we can expect from Greg before as you move forward through the next phase of your life?

[Greg, 26:41]

Well, I'm really not sure, to tell you the truth. I tell people I'm embracing the unknown. I'm taking a lot of people’s advice where they say for the first six months, don't commit to anything. And, I've only broken that rule once so far, and I'm remaining on the board of Maine healthcare system in Maine obviously and then in New Hampshire. I am committed to their mission, but that's really the only commitment that I have. And I do. I want to sort out what's this next chapter that I have. And you know, I do want to do something, I don't know what it is. I'm not a golfer, so it's not going to be on the golf course all the time. Maybe I will get more fishing in, but I do want to contribute and I'll, you know, sort out where. And I'm very fortunate. Not only call it what Camden has provided me, but also personally, you know, with my family that I can take that time to reflect and figure out what those next steps are and either that I have to embrace the unknown. So, it's a little bit scary. But at the same time, it's exhilarating as I feel like I've got a lot of options out there.

[Keri, 27:56]

Yeah, Greg, you know my passion for saltwater fishing and all my stories there on the ocean, but you probably didn't know Vinny, and I have some friendly competition here at the office he’s also a boater and a new fisherman, Vinny, I guess, right. How many years now have you been?

[Vinny, 28:13]

I don't know, what kind of fishing?

[Keri, 28:15]

You know, salt water. Well, anyway, Greg, we tend to have a little friendly competition here. So, I do hope whether it's Alaska, Florida or wherever things take you that you send me some pictures of your trophy fish moving forward and you know we we've chatted and I'm sure we'll be in touch, but it's just been a pleasure working with you. Me personally, for the past ten years or so, I've learned so much and just the firm DCG and the Camden National Bank relationship has just been amazing. So, I really appreciate it.

[Greg, 28:43]

Well, thank you. Thanks, Carrie. And the feelings mutual. Whether it was George, the whole firm of Darling Consulting Group, and especially more recently over the past several years, you've all helped us get better here and you've all challenged us on how to get better out of position and I think it's just a great partnership and it's just been wonderful, and I really feel grateful for having that partnership.

[Zach, 29:14]

Greg, thank you again so much, Vin and I thank you, Carrie does and we wish you all the best. Thank you for the time today.

[Greg, 29:20]

You're welcome. My pleasure.

[Vin, 29:26]

Well, welcome back here, Zach. What an interview with Greg. Really enjoyed him. You know, I don't personally. I've never really had any interaction with him, but one of the things that I really took away from that interview was his kind of hyper focus on people and, you know, so often folks talk about culture and how important it is. It's almost like Greg kind of just lets, you know, good people just, kind of, do their job. And he talked about how the culture was there when he got there. So, it's not like he's taking credit for building the culture of 150-year-old institution instead, he said, basically look, banking attracts responsible people and you put smart people in the right roles, they'll find you and they'll do a good job and they'll maintain the culture. I thought that was really important. You can feel it too, you know that’s the thing where, you know, you and I have the opportunity to walk into so many financial institutions and you can see the ones that have a really good culture. You can feel it. There's something about when you walk through that door into the meeting room, etc., and clearly, they've achieved that there.

[Zach, 30:27]

Yeah, absolutely. And that was something that Keri had said even before the interview, saying that that's something that's always stuck out to her. Her two decades of working with those folks, and I think kind of tangentially, one of the things that always interests me is when you have a publicly traded bank and how you manage the near-term pressures, we'll call it versus the longer game. I think the culture, the people, to me was a big piece of that and what Greg said was, you know, the stock price is one thing. But if we do the right things all the time, at the end of the day, the right investors will find us. You know, maybe 1/4 is a little bit worse than the other or better than the other. But overall, they're trying to do the right things over a long period of time. The people certainly come into that, but I thought that was a really nice answer because you can't just be every quarter at the wind with the street, right, there has to be a much longer-term game if you want to be around and have the success they've had. And I thought that was a really, you know, smart, intelligent thing that he kind of alluded to us.

[Vinny, 31:24]

Yeah. Well said, Zach. That was really kind of an interesting part of the interview as well, and I guess that's a wrap. So, thank you so much for listening and we invite you to continue to listen this year. We've got a terrific and dynamic lineup of guests who are going to be joining us. And I think we're going to have a lot of great discussions. So, thank you for listening to On the Balance Sheet.

[Dana, 31:53]

On the Balance Sheet is a podcast produced by Dollar Consulting Group, DCG. All views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests as solely their own and may not represent those of DCG. All third parties are independent entities and are not affiliated with DCG. This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only and is not considered as advice. All views and opinions expressed are based on the information available at the time and may have changed based on current market and other conditions. The more information about DCG, please visit wweviolencesaltant.com or e-mail us at info@dollarconsulting.com. Today's background music is provided by John, Sid and Coma Media and can be found on pixabay.com.

The text of this transcript was generated by an artificial intelligence (AI) model, and its organization, grammar, and presentation enhanced by AI, and as such may contain errors or inaccuracies. DCG is not liable for any damages, however caused, that may result from any use of this content.