71. Embracing Love Languages for Personal Transformation and Healing

From the ashes of a turbulent childhood, blossoms a story of redemption and self-discovery. Join us as Paul Zulman, the author of "The Role of Love," opens up about his transformative journey and the pivotal role love languages have played in his life. Paul's narrative, charting a course from pain to profound kindness, serves as a beacon for anyone seeking to foster self-compassion and break free from the chains of generational anger.

In a heart-to-heart that promises both enlightenment and emotional resonance, we unravel the intricacies of how small shifts in mindset can lead to monumental changes in our interactions. Paul's insights on observing and responding to the love languages of those around us—without needing to utter a single word—are a testament to the silent power of connection. Discover how altering behaviors can not only reshape your emotional landscape but also act as a catalyst for healing within families.

This episode holds wisdom for anyone in the throes of midlife, painting a vivid picture of the intersection between love and self-love. Paul and I navigate the complex waters of self-revaluation, the significance of body image, and the effects of redirecting love inward, while also cherishing the joy of spreading it to others. Learn how the simple act of rolling a die can become a ritual in nurturing your own heart and those around you, and come away with a renewed sense of the reciprocity of love and the boundless rewards it offers.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:40

Hey everybody, today I had a conversation with Paul Zulman, who, if you've heard about the love languages which was really impactful for me and my marriage a few years ago, when my husband and I sat down and actually stumbled upon this book and it really changed a lot of our perspectives of how we relate to each other. Well, paul did a riff on the love languages and created something a little more actionable a die that you roll and the kind of a game that you play. Now this helps you really live the love languages on a daily basis, all day long, and I was curious to see if this was more effective than the love languages themselves and how this can help people in midlife, when we're going through so much and sometimes it feels hard to give out love when we feel tapped out. So Paul and I had a good conversation about how the love languages work and how giving out can actually help you cultivate your own self-compassion and kindness for yourself, something we all need so much more of. Hello everybody, today I am with Paul Zulman, who is the author of the International Bestselling Book, the Role of Love. If you have heard of the love languages, the role of love takes the philosophy and expands on them to turn it from theory to actionable steps that you can take for yourself every day. In fact, paul has created a new way to demonstrate the principles of the love languages by, in a sense, giving them away. Paul claims that the system is so easy that even young children can be trained in this love giving system. And spoiler alert, it's a game where everyone wins.

Speaker 1: 2:45

Okay, paul, so when we talked off air, you said you have a system that will help people develop the mindset of love that will translate into self-love as a byproduct. Now you know that a lot of people listening today are in midlife and going through profound changes, especially when it comes to being at peace with their changing bodies. And what you said was that by reading your book, you will learn the practical applications to learn self-love. Now, I'm a strong believer in self-compassion and kindness being one of the first steps that we need to cultivate in order to make lasting changes with our health and our weight. So why don't we just go back to the beginning? What prompted you to take on the love languages which is a very well-known book, I think in a lot of circles and revise it, if you will, to make it more user-friendly, and how did you get the idea to do that?

Speaker 2: 3:48

Heather, thank you for inviting me to be on your podcast today. That's a great question, and part of the question is that I was in a situation. I grew up in an abusive home and so to find love was really something that I was always looking for, and when I was looking for it I found a. I actually was. I believe that the residual anger from that childhood of abuse spilled into my adulthood and actually was a contributor to the demise of my first marriage. So during that time I was single again.

Speaker 2: 4:27

I was just looking for love in all the wrong places, doing a lot of destination dating, and finally settled in Phoenix, arizona for a little while. My sister calls me up she's seven hours away. She said she had a neighbor that she wanted to introduce to me, and I said I've been in destination dating for a year and a half. I'm done traveling. I was looking for love in all the wrong places. I couldn't find it, and so why do you think I would drive seven hours away? And she's an older sister? I'm number 10 of 11 children, heather, and so what older sister and what older brother says you got to do it when you're number 10. You don't have any choice most of the time. Anyway, I said no, I don't want to do it. She said, oh, come on. And so when she said that, I said, well, all right, I'll email her. And how effective can email be? And so I started emailing her. She'd been emailing me back. This neighbor would email me back, and it was just kind of a delightful exchange, and so I wanted to know a little bit more. It was the little tease, so I wanted to know a little bit more, and it progressed and finally I ended up moving up to where my sister was living seven hours away in southern Utah. And while I'm there, the relationship gets a little bit more serious and it's time for a big brother approval. Of course I need it. I'm number 10 of 11. I had to take this woman up to my big brother's home, 300 miles north.

Speaker 2: 5:52

First thing that happened, heather, when we walked in as my sister in law pulls her aside and says the only emotion that the Zolman family learned growing up is anger. At first I said uh, uh, didn't I did. It made me mad. Then I thought, huh, she nailed it here. I am proving her point exactly. And I thought if an outsider sees my family like that, then this is a time that I can try the best as I can to change that perception of my family. Turn, break the chains, do whatever I needed to do to break those habits that were generationally passed on of anger. So I start reading the color code.

Speaker 2: 6:35

I started reading the five love languages and, as I really liked the principles of the five love languages, but I did not get the application. Consider. Remember where I came from, though, heather. I did. You know who am I to know what love is in the first place? But if I'm supposed to guess, heather, what your love language is and cater to that, that didn't sound like love to me at all. That sounds more like a manipulation, more of a something else. It didn't sound like love.

Speaker 2: 7:05

The second thing that Dr Chapman had in the book was that, well, if you take this survey, then I can find out what my love language is. Well, what am I supposed to do with that? How's that supposed to help me love If I know what my love language is? What am I supposed to do, heather, advertise? Hello, heather, I'm GIFs. What do you have for me today? I mean, it's just so awkward.

Speaker 2: 7:24

It just did not work for me either, so I thought, you know what I remember, even in the dysfunctional family I grew up in, that we liked games as a kid. So I thought maybe I can make it a game. So I contacted Dr Chapman and asked him if he was licensing those little icons for the love languages. He said sent back through his attorney and said no, they're not doing that at the time. So I contacted an intellectual property, a copyright attorney here in my town. He said that theory, like the love language theory, is not copyrightable. Application is. So he wasn't doing it as a game.

Speaker 2: 8:01

So I thought I'm gonna make my own little icons and then make it into a game. So that's what I did. So I put the icons. So you can see, in the icon that I have pictured right now it's a person holding a tray representing service. Now I've got two hands together making a heart and then I've got a conversation flyout. So those are the words. I've got a hand holding an hourglass that represents time, a hand holding a gift that represents gifts, and then two hands touching each other that represent touch. So those are the five love languages, all represented with pictures, no words at all.

Speaker 2: 8:43

The sixth side of the die has a hand with a question mark on it. So just two instructions, heather. You roll the die every day. That's a love language. You practice giving away all day, that day, all day. So you're giving away. The mindset is so. You're giving it away without any expectation of coming back, but you know it's gonna come back. Some people call it the law of the harvest, some people call it karma, some people call it the law of attraction. Whatever you send out is gonna come back to you, and so just trust that process that you're sending it out without any expectation.

Speaker 2: 9:19

This is where, heather, I think it really gets into that self love. You feel loved when you've made somebody's day. It's a very happy feeling and I've always had been an advocate of that. If there's anybody that is feeling lower, I'm more unhappy than I. They're really easy to find those kind of people. If they're feeling lower than I am, if I lift them up just a little bit, I feel that love. I feel love for myself because I've done something significant to help another person, and I think that's the best way to describe how do you develop that self love in any circumstance?

Speaker 2: 10:00

I had to overcome anger Many. There's many other things that people need to overcome. But they have to have that self love first to be able to overcome or do something that's gonna generate that self love. What I found is that, rolling the die, for 30 days I had a new mindset. I figured out what I was doing to get angry. I'd be annoyed at somebody else, Something that they were doing, some choices that they were making I had no control over. I stopped a minute. I said, oh, that's out of my lane, I don't even need to worry about that anymore. Stop worrying about that.

Speaker 2: 10:39

And when I stopped worrying about that and stay in my own lane of what I'm going to do, who am I going to be it was so much easier to have that self love as well. I've not worried about anybody else I'm worried about. I'm actually worried about who I'm going to be and how I'm going to project that. What love am I sending out that day? And instead of saying what's wrong with that person, I started saying what's right with that person, what can I love about that person? And as I expressed that love and they light up, that's how you determine what their love language might be, the primary love language. Instead of having to pause the relationship, say, could you take the survey so I know how to love you. That would be a little bit awkward, so you just don't have to do that. Use your observation skills and just watch when they light up. That's what they like.

Speaker 1: 11:31

So thank you for that synopsis. That's great. So I have a couple questions. So it sounds like you liked the love languages, right, you read the book and something resonated with you, but there was flaws in it, if you will, and also because you grew up where the language in your house was just anger, you didn't know how to express love, sounds like, and so this is an easy way to do it, and that you learned also that giving out, giving, or what I would maybe call like service, like being of service to people, I mean like showing your love out, gives you love in return, right, because you're maybe tapping into what their love language is, without having to have a whole conversation with them and ask them, can you take the quiz and you know, so we know what your love language is, so that it's just you're just doing it subtly, sort of under the radar, and that really sounds helpful and I could see that I mean you're just giving love for the sake of giving love in some one of these languages.

Speaker 2: 12:52

It's an intention for the day, heather, so it's your actually a purpose for the day. So, heather, there's a mayor in a town that's adjacent to the town I live in, and before she was even elected, and after she was elected, she started rolling the die and she found it to be very purposeful for that particular day that she started her day with that purpose and she continued to watch for those opportunities to love in that way. Again, on each love language, what you're watching for is for people to light up and just taking a mental note of what their primary love language might be. That's how you detect their primary love language. I want to kind of turn this a little bit.

Speaker 2: 13:37

The other day I was walking, went out walking, and I found a walking stick. This stick didn't have any bark on it. One side is thick. You see, it's very, very nice and smooth. The other side of the stick, though, has some bumps on it, a little point right there. That's what I call the naughty side of the stick. So it's a naughty and nice stick, and I'm sure that Santa Claus has a stick just like that but for me, what it represented, heather, is that spectrum, that spectrum of anger on the naughty side of the stick to the spectrum of love on the opposite side of the stick.

Speaker 2: 14:13

When my took that woman to my brother's house and visited with my sister-in-law, I realized that my family culture was still on the naughty side of the stick. It was still that stacking of annoyance and then flashing, flashing with anger. And I believe that my brother had it, my father had it. That's the generational thing that we really needed to stop. That's the attitude we needed to stop, and so the mindset changed, from what's wrong with that person to now what's right with that person. What can I love about that person? I needed that behavioral change for me to be and be able to do something different. I think that in anything whether it's weight loss or whether it's eating the right foods, whatever it is we need a behavioral change, a substitute behavioral change, to be able to make that difference.

Speaker 2: 15:10

Self-love is part of it, absolutely, but you'll guilt that along the way. As you're giving this love out. It's almost like you get paid. When you're making someone's day and they're just so happy that you made their day, they're going to spread that around to their friends. You're going to feel really good about having done that. You're going to feel that love right then and there you get paid. But it's like putting money into a piggy bank though it's still going to come around after the fact, it'll still come back to you. It's not necessarily that you're looking for a payday that day. It's not a transaction. Love is not a transaction. It's not like I have. I like physical touch, so I'm going to get physical touch away in hopes that the reciprocity will be there. It's not like that at all. That is like let's make a deal. It's a transaction, not true love. We're trying to get away from that, trying to send out love without any expectation of it coming back, trusting that it will come back. I think that we can do that with the mindset too.

Speaker 1: 16:10

I understand that giving out love can then bring back love, but there is something to be said about having some communication about the love languages. I know that a couple of years ago my husband and I stumbled upon that book and we took the quiz and everything. It was hugely helpful for us. It was really hugely helpful to learn what our love languages were and then get very clear on what they were. Now we both know what each other likes or dislikes, versus just the rolling of a die. What if I'm wrong with my love language that I'm giving out to a person I have to be in communication with that day. I don't like physical touch and that's what I rolled on the die that day.

Speaker 2: 17:04

As far as physical touch goes, what I'm talking about and what I'm projecting out there we're talking about the high fives, the fist bumps, the pad on the back or maybe a special handshake. Even it's football season right now. Even the football players they bump chests and that's a physical touch all by itself. But there's a lot of things that you can do for physical touch that are genuine kindness. The complicated handshake is probably one of the best that I've seen is that they'll do five different steps for a different handshake and that really becomes a bond between those two people that are doing that handshake. I wish I was involved and you look on that and you wish you're involved in something like that. What I found, heather, is that over a 30-day period, by giving away all five love languages, improves your vision so that you can see it when it comes your way. It gives you that peripheral vision that says, oh, that's not my primary love language, but I can see they're loving on me and I can respond appropriately. That, to me, is even the doing. Part of that is kind of a communication all by itself.

Speaker 2: 18:12

There's a couple here that she took the test, found out that her primary love language was service. Well, the husband's just working his tail off washing her car, doing the dishes, vacuuming the carpet, cleaning out the dishwasher, taking the trash out, doing all these things of service. She's not lighting up. He starts rolling the die and realizes one day rolled words and then she lit up. She absolutely lit up on the words, on the compliments, on the how beautiful she looked and that sort of thing really lit her up. And I think that there's some some margin of error. Of course, as any survey would have, there's some margin of error there and it's there is some accuracy to it. But I think that exploring all the love languages so that you know them backwards and forwards, becoming that love language, linguists that you know all five love language, becoming that person, is going to be really help your relationship a lot better too.

Speaker 1: 19:11

So that's a good point, right, that rolling the die like will help you to explore all the love language, because they all count really. So it's. You just might not be aware, even though, like, my primary love language is physical touch as well, but it doesn't mean I don't like the other Love languages and and so if I just focused on the physical touch part then I would not have the opportunity to Explore the others. So, yeah, I understand that. Now, when it comes to just Like women who you know, that's women in midlife or is who I see in my professional life, you know off air my clients and who I think a lot you know that's who Is listening primarily to my podcast.

Speaker 1: 20:00

Like I said before, they're going through a lot. There's a lot of changes going on right now, a lot of re-evaluating what do I want out of my life, body image, just a lot of physical and emotional changes, self love and Compassion. I mean it's. I understand what you're saying about like rolling the dice and practicing this, but does it go deeper than that? I mean, does Does Cultivating this kind of stuff? Is it is? Is it as easy as just rolling the dice and practicing it?

Speaker 2: 20:33

I think it is. I think it really is that easy and it's just changing the inside first and then don't worry about the outside. I think that the Changing our attitudes within is going to really be helpful for the change without and it'll, it'll, it'll come from within and that's kind of why the name of it I call it the role of love, and it's spelled R O L? E. You are well L the die, that's outside of you, but you're in bringing it inside you. You know, I read the book the five love languages, four or five times, heather, and I went through the book, but the book didn't go through me. I didn't get a lot of that understanding. I got the principles, I understood the principles, but the application wasn't working for me. So that's why I had to alter this application so it actually will work for me.

Speaker 2: 21:22

What's going to change me inside? And it's just became that the, the whole attitude of what I'm sending out and Realizing that that's all I have control over. I only have control over giving love away and Responding with when it comes my way. I can't bid it to come my way. How's that going to turn out? I mean, if somebody feels duty bound to love me it's not going to be love, it's going to be oh, I have to do that again today and it's just, it's not gonna happen and it doesn't work, and I understand that from a lot of the things that I've done.

Speaker 2: 21:58

But when you start out with a self-love and I developed this, just so your listeners know I developed this when I was single, so I did not have a significant other to to use it with, as Dr Chapman suggests, so I had to say, well, I guess I'll just love everybody and it really that necessity. It was kind of the mother of the invention that it really is. That's the only thing I can do is just send it out and send it out to everybody. I, as I considered that, I thought I don't know anybody, not one soul, that is with their Significant other 24-7. So what are you going to do?

Speaker 2: 22:35

The other part of the time is does that mean you're just a part-time loving person? And and that didn't work for me. I said I don't want to be just part-time, I want to do it to everyone. And so, though, this new way of doing this Rolling the die and expressing love to everyone you're coming contact with is a better way to do it, it. It helps you become that loving person, that loving person that loves others but also feels that self-love as they express love to others.

Speaker 1: 23:05

I mean, can you argue that when you talk about self-love, that's like self-care right, compassion, self-compassion, kind of? I mean you could roll the die and whatever comes up, just focus it on you, right? It doesn't necessarily have to. Is there more of a benefit when you're just always focusing it out?

Speaker 2: 23:30

I mean, can we just?

Speaker 1: 23:32

Because, as women, we are selfless a lot we are giving out right Given to my children, to my husband, to everyone. For years I'm always I'm not saying me specifically, but for a lot of women they are dead last on the caretaking ladder. That could be an issue for women who just feel like they've never really focused on themselves. But the die could I mean you could focus, you could roll it and whatever comes up that day right, just give it to you.

Speaker 2: 24:11

Well, I think, heather, I want to just twist it just a little bit differently, because I think that as you're sending love out, you're developing yourself and you're giving yourself love, saying this is who I am, this is who I'm going to be. I'm going to be that person that loves and make it all about them, not about you, and I don't mean that in a demeaning way at all. It's not about me, it's not about you. It's about them and about making their day a great day. That's going to give yourself love, but also the whole process, the whole journey of giving love away.

Speaker 2: 24:47

And you're absolutely right. I absolutely agree with you that women are selfless. Anyway, a lot of them are. I've seen a few that are not, but for the most part, they are very selfless people, and thank goodness, thank goodness for women that are selfless like that. I think that makes the world go round, but so will this. Getting that attitude of sending that love out is and you probably already have it. If you're selfless already, you're probably there. All I'm asking now then just do it 1% more and you'll find love, self-love, by giving it away. You really do.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Because it feels good to give to others. And yeah, a lot of times people can be very self-centered, selfish and just always focusing on themselves. So I know that it does feel good to be. When I say a service, I don't mean like a servant, I mean I just mean like giving out with your emotions and being honest. But I'm curious your new wife did you take the love language quiz? I did not.

Speaker 2: 25:59

And she doesn't roll the die with me either. But what she does do is she likes to guess what did I roll that day? And I never tell her I roll it. I get up early, she gets up late, she stays up late, and so we're kind of opposites that way. But I get up early enough, I roll the die and then I'm just practicing it all through the day and then she just takes great enjoyment and trying to guess what love I'm sending out that day and it's just kind of a fun thing that we do. It's been very helpful that way.

Speaker 1: 26:31

Okay, that's great. Wow, tell us about that. Thanks, norm Paul. This is an interesting book, an interesting take on the love languages, and I can totally see how this would be a different way to look at those love languages and to practice it daily. Because it's one thing to take that quiz. My husband and I took the quiz together and we're like all right, that's cool. We've got these things that we like and don't like and I have it always in the back of my head. But as a daily practice we're so distracted with so many other things. So this just helps with some mindfulness. Right, you're just getting mindful with cultivating love and giving to others.

Speaker 2: 27:18

One other thing I want to mention, heather, is that, back to the stick, that I found it very, very helpful in trying to figure out what the opposite was. So if I'm being sarcastic, and that's I figure, well, is that on the naughty side of the stick or the nice side of the stick? And if most people would place it on the naughty side of the stick, well then what would be the opposite? What would be the, the, the scent or the antinom of that? That would be on the nice side of the stick. And I've come up with the word genuine or authentic or true, and that sort of thing.

Speaker 2: 27:54

And if you can do that, you can do that with food, you can do that with behaviors, you can do that with a lot of things. Find out, just find out. What am I doing right now? Where am I at on the spectrum, where am I at on the stick? And once you find out where you're at on the stick, you've just got three choices you can stay where you're at, you can become more addicted, more angry, or you can move toward the loving side and learn the languages of love. I found out that anger really has its own culture, has its own humor, has its own vocabulary. So does love. The long love languages, its own soft humor, some kindness, the way, just the way that operates, and moving more toward those things that are on the nice side of the stick, really is self love. It's giving yourself, making yourself better.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Especially I was single. I had to become a little bit better, or a lot better, to even be able to qualify to be dating again, to qualify to be able to retain another woman as a wife, and it's just that sort of thing. Becoming a better you is what you're trying to do, trying to accomplish with any of those choices. When I say that you've got the three choices, staying in the same spot is kind of what I was doing. I blamed my father for all my social awkwardness, like if I blew up in a public setting. It would be really kind of awkward.

Speaker 2: 29:22

People remember that stuff and you kind of are marked with that stuff. You don't want to do that, it's no fun. Or even in the family situation, you don't want to be remembered for the person that had these flashes, these moments that they were annoyed, annoyed, annoyed until they flashed. You don't want that type of memory. So if you can blame someone, you don't have to change. You can stay right there in that same spot. Blame is a great way to not have to do anything because it's their fault and it's their problem. They have to work on their problem and then you don't move anywhere on the stick because you're blaming someone else. When you start taking responsibility for your own actions, then is when you can set goals to go one way or the other. But you can't do that until you start taking responsibility for yourself.

Speaker 1: 30:15

I totally agree with that. Yeah, blame doesn't get you anywhere, and it's trying to pawn off your emotions onto somebody else and make them responsible for something that you need to work on is pointless. I mean, it just doesn't work. It ends up then being even more frustrating and taking responsibility for your own actions, your past, how you grew up, your trauma all of it is really the best thing you can do.

Speaker 2: 30:47

I'm going to take responsibility for this. What can I do to change? What steps can I take? What would be a replacement behavior for wanting to grab a muffin? What would be a replacement behavior for what could I eat instead? Or there's just a lot of things, a lot of ways that this could be applied. Listen for that inspiration of what could I do. That would be more helpful than what I'm focused on right now.

Speaker 1: 31:13

Exactly Great point and, I think, great way to end our conversation that just be looking outward to help helps you inwardly.

Speaker 2: 31:27

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 31:28

So, Paul, where can people find your book and your die?

Speaker 2: 31:34

Well, it's at rolloflovecom. I've got a bundle. It's on sale right now. You can buy the book, the journal and the die for less than $30. And that's a whole lot less than any therapy session you'll ever find anywhere and you'll have it forever. And it's something so simple. I want it to be less expensive for people. A great wedding gift for others, a great gift for yourself. This is self-love, to just do this for yourself. Find something simple that you can do. It takes two seconds to roll a die, but that investment that you make, that two-second investment, is going to have huge returns. Everybody likes investments like that. Put in a little, get back a lot. That's what this is.

Speaker 1: 32:18

Yeah, I like heavy things where I can take action, like roll a die. But tell me a little bit more, just quickly. What's in the book? Are you explaining all of the love languages in there, explaining how to actually do this and how that works?

Speaker 2: 32:35

So there's several examples of things that you could do. There's several stories of things that people have done, several examples of people that have rolled a die. Yeah, it's just for I also put in the role of observation, watching for people to light up. That's part of the book Different roles that love plays in our lives. That's why I call it the role of love. R-o-l-e. It should be something that changes you within. R-o-l-l of the die is something you do outside.

Speaker 1: 33:04

That sounds fantastic. Well, I will link all of your links in the show notes. People can definitely access it that way. And, paul, thank you so much. This has been a very interesting conversation and giving me a lot to think about too, just about the love languages and just tapping back into those and thinking about how the act of giving out and giving out love actually really helps you in return or, more importantly, Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 33:38

Thank you. It's been a delight to be with you.