76. How to Fix Your Sleep with Dr. Bijoy John

Dr. Bijoy John, a sleep specialist, joins us for a thought-provoking session that might just be the key to unlocking the rest you've been yearning for. Through Dr. John's expertise and personal narrative, we veer into the intricacies of sleep and its profound impact on our health, mood, and even our weight.

As someone who's conquered insomnia, he knows firsthand that achieving the perfect slumber is an art that requires both understanding and patience.

This episode shines a spotlight on the unique sleep challenges faced by women, where hormones like estrogen play a leading role in the nightly dance of rest. From menstrual cycles to the trials of menopause, we examine how these hormonal tides can disrupt sleep and what a 'sleep divorce' could mean for your relationship. With Dr. John's insights, we delve into the delicate balance of hormone therapy and explore how women can navigate these nocturnal disruptions. Whether you're dealing with hormone-induced sleep woes or simply seeking to understand them, this conversation is rich with revelations.

We wrap up with Dr. John unpacking his "Sleep Now" strategy—a toolbox for anyone looking to improve their sleep quality. Learn why caffeine might be betraying your bedtime and how even a single lost hour of sleep can ripple through your health. Plus, discover the seven steps that Dr. John advocates for transforming troubled nights into peaceful escapades into dreamland. It's an episode packed with practical tips and deep dives into how we can all reclaim the night and, as a result, seize the day.

Dr. John's Sleep Fix Academy, click HERE
Dr. John's Book 'Nobody's Sleeping: 7 Proven Strategies for Better Health and Happiness click HERE
Dr. John on IG
Dr. John on Facebook

Let's Be Friends
Hang out with Heather on IG @greenpalettekitchen or on FB HERE.

Let's Talk!
Whether you are looking for 1-1 nutrition coaching or kitchen coaching let's have a chat. Click HERE to reach out to Heather.

Did You Love This Episode?
"I love Heather and the Real Food Stories Podcast!" If this is you, please do not hesitate to leave a five-star review on Apple or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:40

Hi everyone and welcome back to the Real Food Stories podcast. Today we are talking about all things sleep, and I don't think I know a single person who does not struggle with sleep at some time in their life. And so when I was talking to Dr Bijoy John and we were having a conversation, I knew I had to have him on the show because sleep as I have talked about in lots of previous episodes is critical to our good health, our weight, our moods, our overall well-being. So why is it so hard to get a good night's sleep? And you've probably heard the saying I'll sleep when I'm dead because, let's face it, being busy is like wearing a badge of honor. Truth is not getting enough sleep consistently might get us there sooner. So I'm going to leave it up to Dr John to fill us in on why we are not sleeping well, the importance of a good night's sleep, how asleep and our weight, our food choices and moods are so linked, and the specific things we must do to finally get our rest.

Speaker 1: 1:45

But first let me introduce Dr Bijoy John. Dr John is a board-certified physician and practicing sleep specialist currently in private practice, with over 25 years of experience in pulmonary and critical care and sleep medicine. He is the founder and medical director of Sleep Wellness Clinics of America, offering in-person and online consultation, education, modern diagnostic modalities, home testing and comprehensive treatment for a full spectrum of sleep disorders. Dr John is also the founder of Sleep Fix Academy, which offers online courses, podcasts and other resources to improve sleep quality. He is also the author of this soon-to-be-release book Nobody's Sleeping Seven Proven Sleep Strategies for Better Health and Happiness.

Speaker 1: 2:36

So, dr John, I'm so glad we are talking today, because I know the relationship between sleep and health, but that does not mean people are getting good sleep. In fact, most people are living on a few hours of sleep a night. So let's start with you, because I know you were in pulmonary and critical care before devoting your career to the specialty of sleep, and I think you were having your own struggles with insomnia. So why don't we just hear about your story first?

Speaker 2: 3:05

Thanks, heather, it was so great to talk to you and be on your show and thanks for what you did. Sleep is the foundation on which health and fitness is built. There's no other way. Right, but you can't hustle your way into sleep. I call it is the contrary to the hustle culture. It's like a smooth golf swing. You can swing hard, but today, the world we live in, you can all hustle your way into it. You can't.

Speaker 2: 3:35

I am a sufferer. What happened personally in my life? Of course, in med school there is no sleep right. You go and caffeine and then life happened. But I had to find a way to get through. My major problem was test anxiety. I'm sure many viewers have the same problem whenever preparing for something. So I had to find a way through that. Then I lost my mom and then I was grief for so much I couldn't sleep for months. But I had to find a way.

Speaker 2: 4:00

Then I started my mood from the big limelight of ICU. Then I want to pursue my passion. I started my own practice. It was hard dealing with so many things, but I found a way. Then I see this pattern again and again. I said I have to reach more people and I have to give them the true message, the holistic way of how to do this thing right.

Speaker 2: 4:20

The society and the. All the information you get from the internet is pseudoscience. It is not true. You can't. You can't data, mine your way into sleep. You can't hustle your way into sleep. So it is an art and I want to teach it to all your listeners and everybody. I want to give this gift because I've discovered the joy of sound sleep and once you have it, you have the superpower. You can go hard at it. It is a foundation. I call it the superpower and I want to share. And, of course, the diet and eating is all related to sleep and all the health problems will go as we go along and you can choose any topic and if you want to start with the food, we can start right there and it's your choice, heather.

Speaker 1: 5:02

Yeah, I mean I have a million questions about sleep. And I know that my audience does too. So let's start with the first question how does poor sleep just impact various body functions, just on a physical level, when you are just chronically not getting enough sleep? Let me back up too how much sleep do we need a night?

Speaker 2: 5:24

Perfect, great question. So I get that asked every time. Right, the ideal time for adults is seven to eight hours, right? That's kind of like the sweet spot. Children and smaller children, babies need a lot of sleep for many reasons. So human growth hormone is secreted in deep sleep, maximally in children. And also, for us to recover from muscle function, you need that human growth hormone and, of course, the thyroid hormone. So that is.

Speaker 2: 5:51

But then there's the subset of people who are wandering around, especially the high functioning executives. So they are like stigmatized because they don't sleep much. So, but they're called the short sleepers. So, like Elon Musk, you know, the previous presidents, trump and Obama, they are short sleepers. They're short sleepers, they function well.

Speaker 2: 6:11

So the question I ask everyone is if you slept six or seven or eight hours, and how do you feel the next day morning If you are still tired after eight hours of sleep, you have a sleep problem or a sleep debt, right. So that's an easy question to answer. But if you're going like five hours of sleep I know some of my friends have that genetic gift. We don't have I need seven hours, you know. So I dedicate my life. 10 to six is my bedtime. That's what I do. That's eight hours. Sometimes it would be 10, 30, 6, 30. So I dedicate eight hours to the process of sleep, but I prepare by eight o'clock, 8 pm, to get into this mode. So my preparation starts at eight and then I lay in bed at 10. So that is the. That's the.

Speaker 2: 7:00

So you asked me what? What happened? So, just being tired, you're in a mental fog. It's actually the one of the reasons why people don't show up to work in the United States in 2017. It costs $417 billion because of abstincy, because people not showing to work right. So you're in a mental fog. Then you are feeling depressed and you're anxious. It's a bidirectional relationship. The more tired you are, the more anxious you get. The more anxious you get, you don't sleep. It's called sleep anxieties. It's a vicious cycle. We got to get out, and you know, and that can also cause depression and you're tired, you know. So it's a balance. It's a bidirectional relationship.

Speaker 2: 7:43

And if you don't sleep well and if you have conditions like sleep apnea, after an apnea there's a surge of catecholamines like norepinephrine. So what happened? It stresses your heart, so your blood pressure, which is supposed to regulate. You know, if you take your blood pressure. During the day it's high because we're all hustling, but in the morning it should be very, very low. But with people with sleep disorders, like sleep apnea, because of the release of the norepinephrine, your heart blood pressure is hiked up. So is diabetes. So anybody who has high blood pressure and uncontrolled diabetes need to have this condition ruled out, called sleep apnea. So that's in short.

Speaker 2: 8:19

You know, of course diet is related to the hormones, like leptin and ghrelin will get into it. That's my favorite. So I have chapters dedicated for all of this, you know, for mental health, for weight gain, and also my mom taught me how to sleep, so I dedicated a chapter for women. Women's sleep is absolutely nuanced. It is very complicated. Women are. You know, two-thirds of all my patients who don't sleep well are women. So, unfortunately, so women have to be on their game to sleep better because it's so many reasons. So that's where we are. So whether I'm ready for to digress into certain topics, it's all your choice. Let's go.

Speaker 1: 9:00

Okay, I know there's so there's so much to talk about, because I mean, so I really want to focus on women and sleeping. But first I just want to just go back to this, the mental part, because I think there's this what comes first? You know, do you have anxiety and depression and then you can't sleep, or can you, are you not sleeping, and that creates anxiety and depression. And I guess I'm sort of answering my own question. I mean, it can't hurt to just focus on sleep and see if that helps, right all of it. But but I mean, does which? What do you think comes first? I mean, do you think that lack of sleep leads to a lot of anxiety and depression?

Speaker 2: 9:40

Correct, so that I believe you know, if you look at hundred percent of people who are anxious, they have a sleeping problem right. So I believe it's. I would say it's have to give it 50, 50 I can. So if you don't sleep well, you don't feel well and you are not responding to things. See, the, my psychiatrist friend gave this beautiful definition of anxiety and depression. Anxiety is the fear of the future, depression is worrying about the past. So anxiety is worrying about the future and Depression is worrying about the past. What a beautiful, simple definition.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Of course it can be complicated, but when you are not sleeping, you are. You're worrying more because you think you can't handle it. You know, I just so that's the loop. You are opened up and then when you don't do things well, your short tempered, you know, then it creates more hurt within yourself. Then you start thinking about it in your bed. You're not sleeping. So it's a vicious cycle. But if you can, if you can do that and try to get off this cycle, then you are great. So that's why in my also have an acronym sleep. Now you know I have dedicated the NO to notewaring will get into it towards the end, or you know how to do that. So so. So I think it's a 50 50 problem. I have a beautiful picture. It's like a circle sleep Anxiety, poor sleep causes anxiety and worsens depression, and then it's a loop I just imagine I have. That was my own thinking, I just put it in my book.

Speaker 1: 11:08

Mm-hmm, yeah, that that sounds Right. It's almost like a. It is like a loop, right, it's one just feeds off the other, I guess right.

Speaker 1: 11:17

So let's let's focus on on women's health, because yes or I imagine you know, and I know that in midlife, with menopause hormones, there are so many women who just cannot get a good night's sleep, I mean. So there's Hot flashes keeping women up, so there's things that you know, that are like happening. So it's not just that they're, they just can't get a good. They can't explain it, but things wake you up. You have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. So your hormones, your hot flashes, what, let's talk a little bit more about that. What do you? What do you feel? How, how can women in going through Menopause just get a really good, solid night's sleep? Because I know for me, when I don't get what, I get woken up in the middle Of the night and then I'm up and maybe thinking, maybe a hot flash wakes me up. It's, my whole day is ruined, you know. And then you do that for days in a row. That it's just. It can be really mentally challenging.

Speaker 2: 12:19

The bad habits happen. You know I have to rewind and go all the way back. You wouldn't ask the young women just because of the time of the menstrual period in your pain. You know the pre menstrual syndrome. You know all that pain your sleep is. You know it can affect your sleep. So then childbearing you know pregnancy is horrible. Third trimester, you don't sleep well in pregnancy. And then childbearing, in the Responsibility. So you're set up, you know your managing, your carrier, and then so you are a little bit hyper.

Speaker 2: 12:53

Women are a little bit Hyper vigilant, just by nature. There are many nights my children come and they come past curfew. My wife will be like, did you know your son came at this time? You know I said what happened. Did you know that was a storm? I said I don't know. So I just but maybe I was recovering from a night of call, I don't know. But but many incidents. So there is this hyper vigilance in women. And then every time, still as a young woman, and then in middle age, have, you know, raising children, and then comes menopause.

Speaker 2: 13:23

You see, so the estrogen is such a protector of Women's health it is. I mean, I've done even in my research in the intensive care unit in patients who respond to the lung injury from COVID or whatever. You know the women are protected because of that's what we always found. But then what you are losing that right, so you know. That's why women are not as risk as men, for you know sleep apnea. But once menopause hits, the risk is same in men and women.

Speaker 2: 13:53

Women gain about seven pounds on the average in menopause. So these are some of those things, hot flashes because of the formal changes and low estrogen. What it does. You know the ureter. You know the, the conduit that you know moves. The urine is slow. That muscle is also estrogen dependent. It does, it loses. This Is contractility and so it's not moving much. And you women are at risk for urinary tract infections and that's one of those things you wake up to use the restroom. You know mild UTI, not the raging, I'm not talking about the little bit or your sensation of your bladder being full, so that hormone just changes, changes everything. So the loss of estrogen. So seven pounds you gain in perimenopause on an average man. What women do? They're always. You know you want to learn about a lot of things, you're very inquisitive and you learn.

Speaker 2: 14:43

And there's this sleepy time tea or some kind of tea. Guess what it's? It's caffeine. You're gonna eat a diuretic. So so I have.

Speaker 2: 14:51

I described the scenario of this perimenopausal women who comes to me with these kind of symptoms. I had to go back and she, she drinks her favorite tea around like 8 pm and then she wakes up. So I just made a drink it in the morning. If you want to drink it, drink it. And then she had complaints of some leg pains and you're at risk for Low iron. You can have symptoms called restless leg syndrome. That is a commonest disorder known to men but most people are not aware. You know, you have this Charlie horse sensation. There's the easily treatable condition. It's the number one causes iron deficiency. So so you have that.

Speaker 2: 15:24

And then, if you're snoring, you're likely to have sleep apnea in the menopausal age. So you know the change of hormones. You, you know night sweats waking you up using the restroom Because of those slowing of the ureter, the conduit that passes urine, or a fullness of the bladder, and then, and of course, you start to snore and Then you that you're vulnerable for sleep apnea. So when you have an apnea, you know the brain is like sending the surge chemical. Hey, wake up. The aim of the body is to keep you alive. It's gonna trigger you that Flight or fight response at night in your, in your sleep, and then you wake up. And then you look at the clock or you have your phone. Next by the game is over, it's three o'clock. Oh, I only slept three hours. Oh, I gotta get up. So the cognitive activity increases this bad habits, and then it just.

Speaker 2: 16:13

You know most people are having, and women are also vulnerable for something called environmental sleep disorder, that's, snoring of their spouse. So women, the couples, are having something called the sleep divorce. They're sleeping separately. And in modern society I'm listening to all this bad information they're saying it's great to sleep separate. But it is. You know, a couple sleeping together is absolutely magical, you know. He blends the relation. There's something so spiritual about that. But today they're saying it's okay to eat your road. So many at levels. But my aim is to bring the couples back together. So preventing the sleep divorce and Helping to find out the nuances in women's sleep.

Speaker 1: 16:55

I've been hearing a lot about sleep divorce too, and I I'm not I know I'm not a believer in that. I don't think that that's that's a stand-in. It's didn't solve the problem of your sleeping, but what I'm hearing from you is that there's this drop in estrogen, right that?

Speaker 2: 17:12

we know about menopause.

Speaker 1: 17:13

What do you recommend for women who are candidates for Hormone therapy to take ex estrogen? I mean, is that one? Would that be a thing? And then, of course, other people are thinking well, what can I take? What pill can I take? Is there some kind of a sleeping aid that can help me? And what are your thoughts on those?

Speaker 2: 17:38

OK, that's a true too-pronged question. Like we have seen, the replacement of whether it is estrogen or testosterone for men. It's complicated Nature is doing something and then we are doing anti. It always never works. So I would highly recommend consulting with your personal physician on the decision of estrogen. It's in the past, when I first started in the 90s, everybody had estrogen. But in the last 10, 15 years we are aware of the increase in cancer risk. So we have to be very careful. That's a discussion when you're deciding, because you have to be much screened. You have to have that. But the second question what can you take?

Speaker 2: 18:14

There are two things which really help with this process. The only two things I recommend is magnesium and vitamin D. Those are the things that are helpful in creating the hormones that help you to sleep. And, of course, if you stretch it, I tell people OK to take melatonin up to 3 milligrams. I don't recommend more than that. So magnesium if you are deficient in vitamin, and then melatonin, those are the only three things I recommend. I don't recommend, but then if you work with it and use the other holistic approach, you will get through it. Menopause is like a syndrome. It's for some women last three months, six months, some to a year. But during this process you get so many bad habits and plus make sure if you're snoring you have to rule out sleep apnea. That's the best gift you can do for yourself in perimenopause and menopause.

Speaker 1: 19:12

So what you're saying is I mean rule things out. First, make sure that you don't have sleep apnea, or you do have sleep apnea.

Speaker 2: 19:18

All restless leg syndrome.

Speaker 1: 19:19

Restless leg syndrome Rule out the other physical outside issues before addressing sleep. And I mean right, because we want to make sure we get those things fixed and under control.

Speaker 2: 19:34

Right. So when I see somebody, I ask them whether they have primary insomnia or core morbid insomnia, meaning if they have another condition that's coexisting, like if you have a heart problem, if you have a lung problem, if you have diabetes problem, because that's all they're going to keep you up, and if you have chronic pain. So I have to rule that out. Then I look whether you have psychological or conditions like anxiety or depression. So once I have to because my training in all the other areas helps me to it's just not like well, you're not sleeping. Because I want to make sure. The easy answer is I'm not sleeping, take a pill. No, I work with people to find out. So once I know you have clear-cut insomnia, then I want everybody to do the sleep journal and the sleep assessment or sleep quiz, which is available on my website, and then you see a sleep panel. It is eye-opening to see this in print.

Speaker 2: 20:28

I've seen so many people and of course they're drinking and all this information about drinking your way to sleep. So when people write it all down, when they take the caffeine, when they exercise, when they drink wine, so that changes. Alcohol, for example, metabolizes into acetaldehyde. Alcohol is an anesthetic. It puts you to sleep. That's not sleep, it's drowning the brain. But then later acetaldehyde builds up and that's a chemical that wakes you up. That's why, and then alcohol is also a diuretic, so you're dehydrated, you have this toxic buildup and then that is the sign of the hangover you don't know where you are, so you have to, so it changes, makes you wake up at night. So, and also I talked about this woman and I describe her in my book about taking this tea and changing things around. I mean, it's an eye-opener, so you can see your sleep pattern and then go from there.

Speaker 1: 21:26

Yeah, I know a lot of women who are just a lot of people, my husband included. He's drinking like two big glasses of water, any liquids like right up before he goes to bed and then he's up a couple of times in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and I'm saying stop drinking. I mean just that's sort of like a no-brainer right. Just like don't cut off, cut off liquids, cut off the tea. You know it sounds like nice, a nice cup of warm tea before bed. But those are.

Speaker 2: 21:54

Diuretic there's always.

Speaker 2: 21:56

Simple things you can do, right, but though the number one sign of one of the cardinal signs of sleep apnea is waking up in the middle of the night. So what happens when you have an apnea? There's this negative pressure and all the fluid flows into the heart. The heart's like panicking and saying you know, I'm filled. So it sends that hormone, the diuretic hormone. It's called atrial nitrile, tic peptide, and then you have to pee. So all my men and also, when I have prostate problem, all my men. The first thing they are grateful. Two things they are grateful they're, snoring is gone and they don't wake up to use the restroom at night. So it's not all the fluid, it's a medical condition. It either would be prostate problem or sleep apnea. So you have to rule that out if you're waking in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1: 22:43

OK, good to know. Let's go back for a second and talk about. You mentioned the hormones leptin and ghrelin.

Speaker 2: 22:51

Oh yeah, these are your hunger and satiety hormones. Correct.

Speaker 1: 22:54

And let's talk about how lack of sleep and you know, chronic lack of sleep affects those and then leads to maybe overeating and more cravings for sugar and then, in turn, weight gain.

Speaker 2: 23:09

Correct. So, like I mentioned before, sleep is the foundation where fitness and health is built on and diet is built on because we have to have. So there is this. You know, you found out leptin and ghrelin. Leptin lowers the appetite, ghrelin increases the appetite. In chronic insomnia, guess what? This ratio is altered. You have less of a leptin and more of ghrelin and and in some, reacts just by the fact, when you're awake, guess what? You have more time to eat. That's why shift workers, especially night shift workers, are more a chance to gain weight because they are more awake than you know regular worker. So guess what, when you're tired, what you're doing?

Speaker 2: 23:47

Bad choices. You're going and getting high glycemic foods like potato chips, candy or, you know, sugary drinks. So then what happens if you take a sugary drink, even four hours prior to going to sleep? It is affecting your quality of sleep. So you're doing bad. And then you know it's going to affect your body. And then meal if, even if you eat a big meal closer to bedtime, you know the food stays in the stomach for about two hours and to digest it, the end product of digestion is heat. Heat is not good for sleeping because melatonin is only secreted in colder temperature, within core body temperature. So just by eating more, a big meal. So I tell people to have your favorite meal in the afternoon, and less, and at least at least two, three hours. You know, if you're going to bed at 10, try to be done by at least by 8 pm. Your dinner so, and a light, low carb, low glycemic dinner. So it's a very simple strategy. So you have to do this, otherwise your, your metabolism, the hormone is completely altered.

Speaker 1: 24:58

So let's, let's talk then about you know, I've heard you say like you go to bed at 10 and get up at 6. Right, and it sounds like you're pretty regimented with that.

Speaker 2: 25:07

And that's probably something that you highly recommend is just staying to a firm sleep schedule.

Speaker 1: 25:13

But, what if you are a night owl? You know you like to. Just it just doesn't feel right to go to bed at 10 o'clock at night and it just doesn't. So so two things what if you're a night owl and you like to stay up a little later and does going to sleep later? Does that mess with your circadian rhythm? So circadian rhythms is like the biological clock we have, right, yes, it's the hormones kind of get fired at certain times of the day and night and right all through your 24-hour cycle, right? So just sleep effect that you know, if you're just kind of all over the map with sleeping and sometimes you're going to bed at midnight and sometimes you're going to bed at 10 o'clock, and let's talk about that a little bit how that you know how your hormones and your just body functions get messed up because of not being consistent.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Right, so there's a genetic night owl people. That's a totally different topic, but most of the night owls today's world is behaviorally induced, right, so I call them the teenagers of my practice. So during teenage years, those hormones just shift the clock so they have this delayed sleep phase syndrome. So you are moving the clock forward because of your, you know the hormones play a huge role and plus, because of the behavior that you know the teenagers tend to stay up late for many, many reasons. So you move so and then what happened is, in today's world, this is a major thing we're compromising on our sleep because that's the only thing we can do. You know we are. We have all our best friend. Guess what? Our best friend is our phone, and we are going to spend many hours on the phone and guess where that hours are coming from? It is coming from sleep. So majority of us are sleep deprived, chronically sleep deprived. So so, and then what happens? Society works still on 95 or 85, right, you have to. So even in my own children I tell I preach this to younger parents people. So what happens in high school? You move your clock, then you go to college. It's completely messed. People and kids stay very, very late and they schedule the classes late. So you're coming big time. And then what happened recently? Because of COVID, people are working from home and then people are even sleeping even later.

Speaker 2: 27:34

So the clock shift is this phenomenon after COVID is being exaggerated by COVID. So you're moving and then suddenly you have to change a job. I see the kids are, you know, they stay late Friday and Saturday. Then Monday comes in. You have to go to school, right? So? So you can't, you can't shift, that you know. So that's when they struggle Monday mornings, they struggle. So it becomes an habit.

Speaker 2: 27:55

So if you are, that's why some people take a later job. They may be born night owls, you know so, but then most of it is behavioral abuse. So to answer the question you want to, I have some people who are so far moved. Then I do something called chronotherapy. I move the, keep moving the clock forward, forward and catch it on the back end. Or if it is something, if you're sleeping by till one, I can move it this way, but if you're going to bed at two, three, I just keep it, keep moving it and catch it on the back. It is called chronotherapy. I do it. I have a few patients. I do that, so it depends on how to do it.

Speaker 1: 28:35

So what if? What if someone is just more comfortable going to sleep at midnight and but waking up at 8 am and getting eight hours of sleep versus the 10 to 6. Is there? Is there something to be said about waking up with the sun, you know, like getting that morning daylight? I've heard that too, that that's really important to get 10, 15 minutes of morning light and sit outside, and is that does that? Does that matter? Or is it as long as you're getting your eight hours of sleep?

Speaker 2: 29:05

As long as you get. If that's your life, that's going to be a permanent thing. That's fine, because we are going to keep the circadian. So what happened is your hormones that help you to sleep starts just about when the core body temperature drops. So you will have a new clock. That's your clock. That's going to keep. That is. That is absolutely fine.

Speaker 2: 29:25

We are creatures of light. Just imagine a child wakes up. Because when the child sees the light, we are all creatures of the light. That's why we don't feel good when there's no light. You know the seasonal affective disorder. So there's something said about that light. But if you have a night owl and if it's comfortable, you sleep from telltale. There's no, no, no harm done. Your clock is in a different in, you know, and your circadian rhythm and the secretions of melatonin, the drop in the core body temperature, all keeps up with a new schedule there's nothing wrong with, but provided, just like the teenager, you don't have to change it on a Monday back. You know, that's where the you know it happens. But other than that, it's fine.

Speaker 1: 30:06

OK, all right, that's good to know, because I do know a couple of night owls who really like to go to sleep midnight and even later, but they're making up for it. On the other end, they're probably waking up. I can't relate to that. I'm like you. I like to sleep 10 o'clock, get up at six in the morning person. Like it's not relatable to me, but I guess, if that's OK, that's good. So I have a couple. I want to talk about your book and your seven strategies, but I have a couple of rapid fire questions that I could ask All these things that you see on the Internet and social media and things to do.

Speaker 1: 30:41

So I'm just going to ask quick you can do like a yes or no or like a quick, short answer. You've already answered about magnesium. You like magnesium?

Speaker 2: 30:49

right, yes.

Speaker 1: 30:50

How much magnesium do you recommend?

Speaker 2: 30:52

You know, like I always go the lowest possible I always am. You know, start low, go slow. I would say like five to 10 milligrams. You don't want a lot of it, you know there's so many. I would say, if you can take a lowest possible, one, two, what is the lowest that's available? That's what I'll do.

Speaker 1: 31:12

OK, and what type of magnesium? Because there are a couple of types. Yes, Magnesium citrate. Right, there's a different. There's a couple of types.

Speaker 2: 31:20

What magnesium sulfate and magnesium citrate. Citrate can cause a little bit of stomach upset. Magnesium sulfate should be OK.

Speaker 1: 31:28

OK, what about using THC or CBD to help you sleep at night? I know a lot of people now who are taking gummies at nighttime, probably with not just CBD, which doesn't get you high, but with with THC, and who are really now almost claim that they cannot fall asleep without it. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 31:50

So it's an absolute no go. It's it doesn't help. It's just like one of those things is, it changes certain portions of your brain, but certain portions of your brain are still awake. It's almost like being in, you know, rem sleep. You're not rested well. So what you do? You increase the dosage and then you might you get tolerance to. So THC or gummies, they are not conducive for sleep. For the long run you might feel better, but usually these most of the people also combine it with alcohol. So so I would not recommend. As for going to sleep in the long run, it's not sustainable. It's not the good rest you need. You don't get the end three deep sleep. You are more into the REM or stage one or stage two sleep. It's not the best.

Speaker 1: 32:39

I imagine it's kind of like alcohol. I mean it's it can be sedating right. So it just, it probably sedates you to sleep, but then it messes up the rest of your sleep.

Speaker 2: 32:49

That's right.

Speaker 1: 32:49

Okay, what about caffeine? You know, and drinking caffeine, I know for me, if I drink caffeine past three o'clock in the afternoon, I'm very sensitive to caffeine. I can only drink like one cup of tea in the morning, but sometimes, every once in a while, I'll drink something like maybe mid afternoon, and that will mess up my sleep 12 hours later. So what's your thought on caffeine?

Speaker 2: 33:11

Right. So you know we have this process that builds up within it. It's called the adenosine, which is a sleep-promoting chemical. So caffeine is anti-adenosine. It breaks down adenosine. That's why it keeps you up. Caffeine is supposed to last four to six hours, but in vulnerable people it can last up to 12 hours. So I tell people not to go past one, and especially even myself. I could drink coffee at like 8 pm and go to sleep, but then when the other day we had some kind of caffeine at 6 pm, I couldn't sleep. So I don't drink. Caffeine is good for you for many reasons, but, as regarding sleep, I would not recommend caffeine past noon. I don't recommend, but it can last as long as 12 hours.

Speaker 1: 34:05

Okay, All right, Great. What about sleeping in a dark room? Setting up your environment? Does that really matter? Dark room cold all of those circumstances.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Why don't I just run my Sleep Now strategy? Because I include all that, all right. So I've devised this seven proven sleep strategies in an acronym. It's called Sleep Now. So, viewers, please take a pen and write now. S-l-e-e-p-n-o-w. So S is for the schedule, 10 to 6. But here's a little caveat If you struggle to go, you're going to bed at 10 and cannot sleep till midnight.

Speaker 2: 34:44

Make sure you don't go to bed at 10. Go to get closer to when you fall fell asleep by 10.30, not 10.30, 11.30. And keep up at 6 am. Most people, the insomnia acts, all of them what they do, they were trying to get to bed earlier, thinking to cancel. So you now are struggling for three hours. So go to bed, but make sure you sleep at 6 am. And I want to create the sleep debt. Guess what? In two weeks you will. The first week they don't like themselves, they don't like me because I said so. And then, once you do that, you can move from 11.30 to 11.15 to 11 and then move it that way. But you have to wake up at 6 am. No snoozing, you have to go.

Speaker 2: 35:25

Next in the L is low light, low noise, low temperature, because melatonin melamine is darkness, melatonin is only secreted in dark and in colder temperatures. So make sure your temperature is set between 65 to 70. That's why you don't sleep well in a tropical vacation because it's too hot. Your melatonin is not there, so you don't sleep well in tropical condition. Of course, noise is deterrent. So those two things.

Speaker 2: 35:51

So next is electronics. We talked a lot about it. They see the light from your phone, especially in darkness where there's no ambient light, sends the signal through the eyes into the supracastematica nucleus which controls the circadian rhythm and telling its daytime. So use a phone in the bedroom is absolutely dangerous. I keep my phone in my bathroom. I set an alarm for 6 to 6.30. I literally wake up and of course in the middle of the night you wake up, the dings and it's 3 o'clock. You don't want to access. So no clocks in your bedroom, no, and your phone set an alarm. Trust me, this will work.

Speaker 2: 36:25

The next is exercise. Make sure you don't exercise at least four hours prior to going to sleep, because when you exercise you're creating endorphins. Endorphins are stimulatory and I used to work out that because in my ICU days I had only time at 8. I used to work out and go to sleep, but now I can't. Your body changes. Now I work out the first thing in the morning after I wake up. So that's done. So you're calming your body and you're giving a chance to calm your mind. The next is SLEP power of your mind, so you don't have access to the deterrence with your phone. Then you calmed your body.

Speaker 2: 36:55

Now I practice this is called vivid imagination technique. I'm the first guy to promote for sleeping. I have been doing it for 30 years. I started thinking about if I watch a show, I'm the director of the show that night. I think what's going to happen the next day.

Speaker 2: 37:09

We don't want to bring reality. You see what happens when you lay in your bed. You're starting worrying. Worrying is reality. I don't want reality in your bed, but you want the abstract and this works every night. I used it last night. I use it and then you ease into sleep and then also I teach people how to do yoga nidra.

Speaker 2: 37:25

Nidra means nothingness, it's a Sanskrit word, it's deep meaning. You lay down and have your palms up and you act like a corpse and also incorporate cognitive behavioral therapy. You start thinking from your head down just and focus on breathing. Also, andrew Weil has taught this nice technique about breathing. So what you're giving you a chance you can just sleep is like a dimmer switch. It's not like an on and off. It won't happen. You have to dim slowly. So that's P and N is no to worries. Combine N and O.

Speaker 2: 37:58

I tell people to worry. We all worry a lot. I tell people to dedicate time six to eight PM. But eight PM we're done. If you can't solve the problem, write it down. You do it the next day. So I'm not telling, not, you know we have to worry, but you dedicate your time. You don't bring it to a band.

Speaker 2: 38:16

So and then W is win by losing. You have to win by just letting it go and taking it easy. Don't bring everything to your bed. So it's like a seven course meal. You have to have your music, you have to have your salad, you have to have your wine. You can't have your meat or dessert right away. So it is a process and there's no way around it. Society can do all the research and do everything and there's no way. So SLEP the schedule. Low light, low noise, low temperature. He is for electronics. No electronics. At least 30 minutes prior to going to sleep and exercise four hours part of your mind. No to worries. Win by losing, and that works out.

Speaker 2: 38:53

I've helped hundreds and hundreds of people, including my own children. I put them on the schedule. They look at it. And also today, everybody wants to look at their sleep pattern. I get.

Speaker 2: 39:04

The number one reason for my console is yeah, I didn't get enough REM sleep. I didn't get enough. So what are you going to do? They worry and it gets worse. So I tell people to get the data, implement these strategies and look it up. You don't want to. You can't mine your way data, mine your way. So you can't do it. So it is so.

Speaker 2: 39:22

But society and everything, all this bad information, people are desperate, but it will take two to three to four, at least six weeks. You know I have a sleep now course, which have this video which I'm explaining bits and pieces in my on my website. So people are desperate. There's wrong information. There's no good information. There's a few good information. Matthew Walker's information is good, so he wrote why we Sleep is inspired me to write this book as a sequel of why we Sleep from a scientist perspective. Now I've seen them practical. How to you know the sleep disorders and how to treat them is my, so everybody was read that book. People are so desperate to know there's no good information so everybody is an expert, check the credentials and so bad information. So it is. If I it's like taking the stairs, it's not easy, I'm not promising said something, so I hope everybody took note of this and it's my message. I want to spread this to as many as people as you can.

Speaker 1: 40:20

Yeah, thanks, I mean this. Yeah, it takes work, I mean it's, and I I love your, I love your seven steps and you know, especially winding it down at the end of the day. Leave your worries out there, write them down in a journal rate, and don't bring the worry into your bed with you.

Speaker 2: 40:41

Right, yes, yeah and use the imagination. Bed is the abstract.

Speaker 1: 40:45

I love that too. I'm gonna bedroom is for Sleeping and sex.

Speaker 2: 40:49

Most people are worrying or snoring.

Speaker 1: 40:54

Right and not using their vivid imagination. I love that. Well, how can people get your book? Is your book out yet?

Speaker 2: 41:00

Yeah, it's ready to pre-order. I have received some authors. Show you how it looks like it's a. It's really done Well, some proud. It's available and everywhere it's called nobody sleeping. Seven proven strategies and you know people can check my website, www that sleep fix academy calm.

Speaker 1: 41:20

Fantastic. I will put all of those links in the show notes so people can access that. And I have one last question. Yes because I think people Asked me this or you know we talked about this like can you catch up on sleep? So say, I'm getting Five, six hours of sleep Monday through Friday. Can I catch up on the weekends?

Speaker 2: 41:40

Perfect. Yes, so you know, my son called me in college and said that I have a sleep problem. I said to him son, you don't have a sleep problem, you have a sleep debt. So he came home for, you know, for his holidays in college, I unplugged him. He slept three days for like 14 hours and then he was. Then I asked me do you have a sleep problem? No, no, I have a.

Speaker 2: 42:00

So, but remember, in the when you have a insomnia, I'm creating a sleep death by the schedule. It's called sleep restrictions. So, and and during that time you should not take naps also. So you're creating a sleep debt to have a consolidated time at night, right? So, and then there is this condition called hypersomnia. Some people, no matter how much they sleep eight, ten hours they're still tired. So they might have a condition called hypersomnia. I have a few collection of my patients and I wanted to bring that information. So, to answer question, if you, if you know, in the weekends you need to make that debt and sleep and take a nap, whatever it takes to catch up, that's what regular people like high functioning people and dedicate that says to make up sleep debt. But just make sure you know when you're treating insomnia, creating a sleep debt. But if you have a sleep debt by working you just and compensate that, it's great strategy.

Speaker 1: 42:54

Okay, ideally, we don't want to be in that habit of making it sleep. We want to be Following your seven steps. Yes, being really consistent every night with with our sleep.

Speaker 2: 43:05

Just think about if you lose one hour of sleep a night in a week. You're losing one whole night. It's like not slept. So just think about in that aspect you know one hour at night a week, you're you lost a night of sleep. So it adds up and adds up. It slowly erodes sleep problems Don't hurt like a toothache or doesn't grow like cancer, but people do ignore it. Like you said in the beginning. You said you know people come and say I'll die when I went, how I sleep when I die. But I tell people it might happen to you. So literally can happen to you.

Speaker 1: 43:38

Yeah, no, I've heard people say I'll sleep when I'm dead. I mean what you know? They're just too busy right now for you know, To to worry about sleeping, but there is nothing like a good night's sleep. I mean nothing that feels as good as that. So, dr Don, thank you so much. I really appreciate all of your information. I think we've gotten lots of questions answered and the takeaway is that we really all need good quality sleep, and I love your seven steps and and Looking forward to reading your book.

Speaker 2: 44:10

Yes. So thanks, heather, thanks for having me on your show. Sleep well, be well and let's go sleeping. I.