101. Real Menopause Talk: A Conversation With My Husband Mark

If you didn't listen to last week's episode (#100) where I talk to the men out there about menopause, take a listen!

Today, I went a bit rogue and decided to bring on my husband (and real-life man!) Mark Carey, to get his side of the menopause story.

Menopause isn't just a women's issue, but rather a shared journey that deeply impacts relationships. We unraveled this topic and offer a glimpse into menopause from a partner's perspective. Together, we explore how this life transition can reshape dynamics at home and work, and the surprising gaps in understanding that many face. Mark's candid reflections reveal the importance of education, empathy, and support, and how bridging the knowledge gap can improve relationships.

Our discussion takes a personal turn as we share our experiences navigating perimenopause to postmenopause, touching upon hormone replacement therapy's role in managing symptoms. We examine the societal pressures and emotional hurdles women face, especially amid aging in the spotlight. Mark sheds light on the challenges couples encounter during this phase, from changing metabolisms to communication breakdowns, and why men's understanding is crucial to fostering compassion and reducing misconceptions.

Open dialogues about menopause are more essential than ever, both at home and in professional settings. As an employment attorney, Mark sees his share of discrimination at work that might be attributed to women in menopause. At home, open communication can prevent unnecessary turmoil and promote empathy. We encourage men to be understanding listeners, emphasizing that even if they don't fully grasp the experience, their willingness to engage can strengthen relationships and create a more supportive environment for women undergoing this significant life transition.

Reach Out to Mark HERE
Mark's podcast The Employee Survival Guide is a great resource for employment-related issues

Transcript

Bringing Men Into Menopause Conversation

Speaker 1 0:40

Hi everybody, it's Heather. Welcome back to my podcast, real Food Stories. You know I talk to a lot of women about menopause, health and nutrition, weight loss and just how to cope and feel their best during this time of transition, and I know that I have a couple of men at least listening in and I don't want you to feel left out. So I decided to go a little rogue today and I invited my husband, mark, on to sit in the hot seat with me. Mark is not a stranger to the menopause transition. First of all, he lives with me and, as I am very open about talking about all the nuances and quirks of this time of my life, he might know more than the average man, but still he's always open to learning more and he was more than willing to come on and have a conversation with me attorney who sees a lot of sexism, ageism, just to name a few that he thinks could be directly related to menopause. So he was curious to know more.

Speaker 1 1:52

Mark and I did a podcast episode actually on stress in the workplace a while back. That was episode number 17,. If you want to take a listen to that, that was actually a really good, informative episode about just what it's like to feel stressed out at work and what you can do about it. So in today's episode, like I said, I wanted to do something a little different, and Mark is coming on to have an open, honest conversation about menopause.

Speaker 1 2:24

We often think of menopause as something that only women experience, but the reality is it has an impact on our partners too. I wanted to hear his perspective on what it's been like to go through this phase with me and to help other men understand a little more about what's going on during menopause in general. We covered a lot of ground from what he understood about menopause before we started talking about it, how he's seen the changes up close, and so much more. We also discussed how menopause can affect a relationship, what surprised him the most and what he thinks other men should know about supporting their partners through this time. So it was a real down-to-earth chat full of insights and a couple of laughs a few times. So whether you're navigating menopause yourself or you're here to understand what your partner might be going through, join us today for this unique, insightful conversation. Let's bring the men into the conversation about menopause. So take a listen.

Speaker 2 3:37

How are you Heather?

Speaker 1 3:38

I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 2 3:40

I'm okay.

Speaker 1 3:42

All right. So I wanted you to come on the podcast today because I did a podcast last week where I talked to the men out there I have a lot of women on my podcast to listen that there was, I think, a lack of information for men. Because there's a lack of information for women out there as it is, there's almost no education for women, especially coming even from your gynecologist or just your general practitioner like gynecologist, or you're just your general practitioner. So things are happening now, I think, in the world of menopause education.

Speaker 2 4:33

And I think that it's becoming more. More information is coming out and people are becoming more aware and what to expect about, you know, the topic of menopause, both in the relationships and in the social relationships that work.

Speaker 1 4:46

Yeah, what I'm saying is that I think it's hard enough for women to talk to each other about menopause. It's been a secret for a long time. I mean, even I remember 10 years ago just going through perimenopause and it's just something you didn't talk to your girlfriends about. It was just this like kind of secret thing, and don't even talk about hormones or going on hormone therapy or anything, because that was like a very scary thing to try. So it's hard enough for women to talk to each other about it, but try talking to your husband about it or your partner and getting them on board because, like it or not, you're going through, you live with me and you're going through my experience with me. Right, and menopause is a huge, huge deal.

Speaker 2 5:34

You probably don't even realize it, but it is a monumental phase of life to go through and I thought that's all true and that's what I researched as well and discovered. That's juxtaposed against the lack of information, at least in terms of women who understand what menopause is. And I have to say I did go to a seminar online, maybe about last year, because I was also interested as well.

Speaker 1 6:01

Hold on, tell me about that seminar.

Speaker 2 6:03

It was just about menopause and it was the menopause—I guess there's a national society. It was sponsored by them.

Speaker 1 6:12

The National Menopause Society.

Speaker 2 6:14

Right, and so I went on this—I basically just listened to a Zoom meeting.

Speaker 1 6:20

Actually I'm sorry, it's the North American Menopause Society.

Speaker 2 6:23

Sorry, Right and the major confirmation was that women didn't understand what menopause was, which shocked me how did you find out about this workshop? I think you sent me a link. Oh, I sent it to you, yeah.

Speaker 1 6:50

Oh, but it had something to do. Women who are in their 40s 50s getting discriminated Right. Could you say that? Yeah, and maybe there's some menopause discrimination.

Speaker 2 7:01

Yeah, the courts don't call it that. They call it gender discrimination or sex discrimination, it doesn't matter. It's just that women going through menopause while at work experience you know biased reactions by people who don't understand what they're going through. Both men and women will exhibit the bias.

Speaker 1 7:20

So you learned something from going to this workshop. That's great.

Speaker 2 7:27

Yeah, I learned that women didn't understand. A lot of women didn't understand what menopause was, which shocked me.

Speaker 1 7:32

Women, women.

Speaker 2 7:35

Right, I was on the presumption that all of them knew this information, and then you did all your research and then verified for me that, no, that's not the case.

Speaker 1 7:44

Well, that's because that's the thing. You don't learn this in like sex education class in junior high and you certainly then don't learn it anywhere else, and when you're a gynecologist only gets a couple hours of medical school education. Around menopause, there is a lot of misinformation and no one's really talking about it. So it's. And if you try to talk to your mom or and she doesn't really know, my mom didn't even remember when she, like, went through menopause.

Speaker 2 8:18

So I remember when my mom went through menopause, but she didn't talk to me about it.

Speaker 1 8:22

Of course she didn't talk to you about it, right? Because it was probably like a woman thing and like why would she talk to you about it? Because you are a man, but men should know about this, because every single woman on the planet goes through menopause, right? There is not a single woman who is immune from menopause.

Navigating Menopause

Speaker 2 8:38

So I wanted to participate in your discussion and your, you know, helping get the word out about this topic because you know, being a man and maybe coming from my point of view can help. And if there's listeners who are men, you know be brave, you know just step on in and lean in. Whatever I just it's just, it's information will be helpful for your relationships with work and social and also your social and also your spouse. So that's why and I applaud you for trying to get out the word about this topic, because again, it's so grossly misunderstood or not understood at all- so right now I'm in the middle of menopause, the menopause transition, as I like to call it.

Speaker 1 9:23

There's perimenopause I think you probably know this right. I talked about this last week on the podcast. There's perimenopause. That's like this wild ride of like your hormones are going like crazy up and down and like fits and starts, and then there's menopause, where you don't have your period for a whole year, and then there's postmenopause. So I'm in that like peri kind of menopause phase right now and I've gone through A huge amount, I think, of just changes and just adjustments to being in menopause. But do you feel, like from the man's perspective, that you have noticed this about me?

Speaker 2 10:07

Yes and no. I mean, you've talked about this for such a long time. Back in your 40s you thought you were starting to go through it. Back in your 40s, you thought you were starting to go through it, and now into your 50s, I really don't. I don't really. I guess I'm more enlightened, so it doesn't bother me or I'm not, like I'm not shocked about if anything did happen, but I'm not seeing anything happen in terms. I'm seeing a gradual transition. For you, it's not up and down, that's what I'm seeing a gradual transition for you.

Speaker 1 10:40

It's not up and down. That's what I'm viewing. So I went on hormones very quickly. I knew back in my 40s that I was definitely going to go on hormone replacement therapy. I had no doubt in my mind, just from what I I mean, I don't know Little. I knew about it, but I was not getting a lot of support from my gynecologist at all at the time.

Speaker 1 11:00

I just knew that I was going to go on it and I would be a good candidate for it, so I've sort of I've bypassed a lot of the like, more like aggressive symptoms.

Speaker 2 11:14

Hot flashes and.

Speaker 1 11:16

Yeah, I mean, I've had a couple. I never heard you really talk about it Because I've been on hormones Right so and that comes with some sort of risk, but not a huge amount of risk for me. I'm a good candidate for hormones and it's been really, really helpful for me.

Speaker 2 11:37

Yeah, helpful for me.

Speaker 1 11:38

Said that as far as like hot flashes which are just like you could feel, like you're just like burning up. I mean, I have some friends who are just like going through it and they feel like this is something that they just have to like go through and like get through, and I I have a different feeling on it, but not ever. It's a very personal choice to go on hormones.

Speaker 2 11:57

Well, Well, you believe, you don't have to grin and bear it.

Speaker 1 12:00

No, nor do I want to. Yeah, so I haven't had. My sleep doesn't really get affected by stuff, but has my body kind of shifted. Have I felt like I've gained some weight? Yeah, like things and it's.

Speaker 2 12:20

Well, I think you look great all the time, so I'm kind of biased.

Speaker 1 12:23

Well, thank you.

Speaker 2 12:24

Kind of rocking it right now in your 50s.

Speaker 1 12:27

Thanks.

Speaker 2 12:28

You're welcome.

Speaker 1 12:29

It's a funny thing getting older and going through menopause, because it's like it's like this, like I've also said, it's like it's like this, like I've also said, it's like puberty in reverse, like, rather like, instead of your hormones like get going, like up and up and up, you're like losing your, you're losing something. And, as a woman in this society, in this day and age, where we are so stuck on youth, yeah it can really make you feel like.

Speaker 2 12:58

Less of a woman or A little bit.

Speaker 1 13:00

Yeah, sometimes I mean it, just you know that doesn't have to be the case.

Speaker 2 13:05

I think you, you know I guess there's an answer here that you don't have to feel that way. That's what I guess you're trying to say. There's a message.

Speaker 1 13:12

Well, I think that you know. Anyway, this is just something that I sometimes grapple with. I think that you're very supportive, though, and I don't ever hear you say anything, but there's a lot of men out there who might feel very threatened.

Speaker 2 13:27

On the defense.

Speaker 1 13:28

I mean, is it threatened? You know, yes, or just not really into it and not really into their wife aging. I don't know. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 2 13:41

My first reaction to that is that there's a lack of information. Once you have more information and you begin to understand, you become more compassionate to what your spouse, your wife, is going through. Maybe that's the first thing. So more information is better Becoming, familiar with it. I mean, like the meeting I went to, there were men on the meeting and that was very helpful. Obviously the majority of people were female, but it's just information. Having more information is going to reduce that inherent bias that there's something going on or maybe the man feels defensive Like it's his fault. But it's not his fault. It's just you have to understand there's a change happening and I think that can go a long way to resolving. You know, you've said a lot of people get divorced through this period of time.

Speaker 1 14:27

Yeah, there's a lot of divorce. That happens because I think that women are going through a gigantic change. Men don't totally understand it. I think there there's, there starts to be this lack of communication, yeah, and or, or maybe it's just brings out the like, anything that's sort of been like kind of tamped down. You know, women, I think you just can't what you, what we were doing in our like 20s and 30s to like lose weight or to get like, it just doesn't work the same way when you're now in your 40s and 50s.

Speaker 2 15:03

Yeah, you said you you know, because I know too much, because you're you know, talk to me too much about nutrition, but your metabolism slows down.

Speaker 1 15:11

And, yes, your metabolism starts to slow down. So a lot of people, a lot of women, blame weight gain on menopause, going through menopause and hormones. But really the reality is that it's not your hormones, it's your metabolism is naturally just slowing down the older, you get Same with men. By the way, it's not just-.

Speaker 1 15:33

I've noticed that Women are just not immune to this, and so we need to be doing some different things. You know we need to strength, train more, gain muscle. The more muscle you have, that helps increase your metabolism, right, and we can't just get away with like not you know, like starving ourselves for a couple of days and like losing five pounds. Yeah, Not you know, like starving ourselves for a couple of days and like losing five pounds.

Speaker 2 15:59

So it's a really confusing and I think Well, part of the reason you wanted me to come on the episode was because of kind of a male's perspective going through this. Maybe we can kind of go back to that in terms of maybe race.

Speaker 1 16:18

What are?

Speaker 2 16:18

some questions. What are the questions that men might have about? You know what women are going through? My perspective is kind of it's a little jaded because I do a lot of employment work, so it's I see a lot of bad behavior. You know men at work treating women very, very poorly at the age group predominantly it's in their 50s. And once I started to learn more about menopause I started to realize maybe this is a bias related to a lack of education, awareness about women going through menopause by men, and if they knew what they were doing they'd say wait a minute, okay, maybe they would pause. Maybe they would allow a little more flexibility in their interactions with women at work, instead of just the gut reaction that she's crazy or she's acting like a biatch for the day or because men can be really ugly.

Speaker 1 17:07

But don't you feel like a lot of this is based in like ageism? I mean like that we are just that there is this bias against women getting older? I mean you see women on the Internet like famous women. I mean the amount of like, probably money they spend on getting their faces done and Botox and surgeries and everything. I mean all in the goal of just looking as young as possible.

Speaker 2 17:37

Right.

Speaker 1 17:38

And it starts to look ridiculous. You know because? But we have a very hard time accepting getting older. But meanwhile the reality is men are getting older too. Right, your metabolism is dipping, just like mine is You're like. You are losing muscle, just like me, like it's.

Speaker 2 17:58

But there's still this weird thing in our country, still that men and women, on this topic of aging women, get a harsher wrath on it by society, culture, even by themselves, I suppose, than men do Men. Look at how many men have a punchy gut, you know, walking around there's not that much of an influence on them to you know, get lean and fit, you know, in their 50s.

Speaker 1 18:23

Right, there's not as much pressure.

Speaker 2 18:24

But for women it's the exact opposite Exactly. Right. So it's a kind of a double-edged like sort of pain, because you have gender discrimination bias and you also have age bias happening at the same time when you're going through menopause.

Speaker 1 18:36

Right, but then so then there's, you know, and then so throw in, like the menopause symptoms. I mean one thing that menopause can do, I mean hormones. You're like, you know, estrogen like rules the world when it comes to women and once it starts taking a dip, it can affect everything from head to toe, Like it affects your bones, your heart, your cholesterol levels. But it can also affect your mood, you know, like moods in a way, and just feeling that, like you know, Can you like?

Speaker 2 19:09

explain that more from like you know for me as a man and those who are listening to that like, tell me how it affects mood, like what if? You don't take a hormone, how is your mood then during menopause? That's really the issue.

Speaker 1 19:24

Well, I think it's kind of complex. I don't think that you're taking hormone replacement therapy to help improve your mood, Like it's not, like it's like you're going to take estrogen and your mood is going to be like happy and peaceful and even keeled. But I think if you, if without the estrogen, it can affect your moods.

Speaker 2 19:47

Number one if you're not sleeping well, okay, so if you're waking up with night sweats and stuff right and you're not sleeping well.

Speaker 1 19:52

You are chronically exhausted. That's like a total mood killer. And what about alcohol?

Speaker 2 20:00

I mean alcohol, you know, is that that's how people drink alcohol and they don't realize the connection with sleep and with menopause. Is there a connection? Is there like what's you speak to that?

Speaker 1 20:11

You mean, but with mood and alcohol?

Speaker 2 20:12

Yeah, Hangovers obviously produce, you know, depression and all that.

Speaker 1 20:30

But just wait, let me go back to to the moods for a second, because I think like for me, for example, before I went into perimenopause, the word anxiety, like, did not exist in my life. I never would have defined myself as like an anxious person, self as like an anxious person. And when I went into sort of going into perimenopause, all of a sudden I just felt a lot more anxiety. I felt a lot of like fear of the future. I still feel like this and I don't know if it's from, like, just my hormones, but I have to think that it has something to do with it. And I just want to say too that just because I'm on hormone replacement therapy, it's not a miracle cure for everything that ills you. I mean, you're not taking it because, well, it's prescribed for hot flashes and for vaginal dryness. It's FDA approved for that.

Speaker 2 21:20

Okay.

Speaker 1 21:21

It's beneficial for your heart, your bones and other health issues. But you're not taking it for that because to prevent heart disease, okay, but we know that estrogen and heart issues, estrogen and bones have a direct correlation. There's no like doubt. So I feel like I feel fine taking it as like maybe like hopefully a preventative, but what if you're a woman, you're not taking hormone replacement by choice, and how are like?

Speaker 2 21:57

is a woman going to experience anxiety? You know what is. How is menopause going to like appear for that?

Speaker 1 22:03

Well, the thing is, I feel like I do experience some anxiety and I'm on hormones but, I don't know what I would be like without, if I wasn't on hormone replacement. Well, what have you?

Navigating Menopause Challenges

Speaker 2 22:15

read and researched about, like emotions emotionality of people who go through menopause, who are not on hormone replacement, or just in general in terms of going through menopause.

Speaker 1 22:23

I just know that and this is just from talking to a lot of women that some women say like I am so angry all the time my moods are just like in the toilet, like I'm just in a bad mood. I just don't like, don't, I'm just in a bad mood. I just don't like, don't, look at me like the wrong way.

Speaker 2 22:42

I'll like. I mean, you know, and this is what men see. This is in their uneducated view about this. This is what they see. That's why I'm pushing you to kind of go down that road.

Speaker 1 22:50

Right. I don't know if like hormone replacement therapy can like fix that.

Speaker 2 22:54

Right.

Speaker 1 22:54

You know, but just during this. I think it's a hard physical, mental and emotional adjustment to back out of our estrogen production and I think that that just has something to do with it.

Speaker 2 23:12

So should a woman at work or at home tell her husband or work colleagues that she's going through menopause and just kind of be transparent about it? Would that work to help people?

Speaker 1 23:24

Absolutely I think so. I mean, I think I mean, at the very least, I don't know about work that's your area of expertise but, like for just at home, I mean to have a dialogue with your partner. Absolutely yes, a partner? Absolutely yes, I think that there is. I mean to keep it like a secret or to not talk about it, I think, is not doing you any, not doing a woman any favors, and it's not like their fault that if I'm feeling like kind of a mood, but like I'm just going through things, I'm going through something. It's not going to last forever Hopefully not and I think it is an opportunity to keep the doors open for a lot of communication.

Speaker 2 24:21

Yeah, Well, I think that should apply equally to at work as well. I mean, just be more transparent about it. And I'll throw this one in I mean, I did do some research about this topic, you know, a year ago or so, but England is currently the forefront of menopause movement. I mean, it is out in the open at the workplace and everybody's really supportive about it. It's just that in this country we just haven't yet caught up to that and I don't know why that is, but they've kind of like handled the issue and maybe you can talk about that.

Speaker 1 24:57

I think. Well, from what I see, I think that England is definitely ahead of the game as far as talking about menopause, and I think menopause in the workplace and everything.

Speaker 2 25:10

So maybe it's just more information, more education is happening there, that people are becoming more aware, and maybe that's just a simple solution here is becoming more aware, sharing aware, sharing, and I think it's happening here too.

Speaker 1 25:25

but also what I see here is that, along with more doctors getting better education and the North American Menopause Society being more of a leader, also comes along with a lot of quacky wellness people who are selling, trying to sell you supplements and do unethical things like that. So you just have to be wary of that. But I think I feel very excited about this time, right now, with menopause, because I think that we are getting more and more educated on it.

Speaker 2 25:57

It seems like that that's happening.

Speaker 1 25:58

Yeah, and I think it's going to become hopefully just a normal part of life, rather than you know some like dark secret that women have to kind of suffer through alone.

Speaker 2 26:12

Yeah, again, I just can't say enough that just I did not know, that women did not know about menopause, which is shocking to find that fact out.

Speaker 1 26:22

But now, how would we know? I mean, how would we know?

Speaker 2 26:25

I was just going to assume the thing that all women, because they go through, you know.

Speaker 1 26:29

I mean I didn't know about, I really didn't. I knew that there was like menopause looming, but then when I learned that there was actually perimenopause and that that could last for 10 years, I was, I mean, I was shocked. I really this is how very little education I've gotten on it.

Speaker 2 26:51

And the error of the internet, and doctors and doctors don't know, and the internet is well, what's the internet for us?

Speaker 1 26:56

Yes, and I mean I probably have told you I've had conversations with my gynecologist, who dismissed me, and my general practitioner, who told me that she'd rather go to jail than go on hormones. And we know a lot now about hormones and how they can really benefit and help. So we're progressing. I think, with our menopause experience.

Speaker 2 27:25

So what should men take away from all of this new information in your mind?

Speaker 1 27:37

That's a good question, pause. It would be a huge benefit to just be very understanding and to do a lot of listening, not fixing, not giving advice.

Speaker 2 27:50

A lot of men like to do sometimes, yes, they like to fix.

Speaker 1 27:54

I like to fix. I get it. I understand that, but this is a thing that you-.

Speaker 2 27:58

I can't fix this, by the way.

Speaker 1 28:00

You absolutely cannot fix and it's not something that you're going to totally understand. It's like childbirth You're never going to be able to understand exactly what childbirth and just being pregnant is like right.

Speaker 2 28:15

I witnessed it.

Speaker 1 28:17

I know, but you will never understand fully and same with going through the menopause transition. You will never be able to understand exactly how it feels. Some women listen. Some women don't even notice it. There are a few of those lucky women who they don't even get phased.

Speaker 2 28:37

That's not the norm, though.

Speaker 1 28:38

They stop getting their periods one day and boom, boom, that's it done. Then there's the rest of us, and that's absolutely not been my experience. I feel like my perimenopause has gone on for like a ridiculous amount of time. But it's, you know, and then there's also this feeling of it can be like kind of grieving a little bit. It can be like kind of grieving a little bit. You know you are winding down, like these really essential hormones and estrogen is what makes a woman a woman and makes you fertile and is responsible for being able to have children.

Speaker 1 29:19

and get pregnant and reproduction and it can feel like you're kind of mourning in a way.

Speaker 2 29:31

I mean, I definitely have had those kind of feelings about it as your spouse and hearing all that, I mean I have to only express a great deal of compassion because that's all I can do and just sit there and listen and support you as you go through it. I guess that's. The takeaway from this episode is just simply, men can give this gift of compassion and understanding and listening and it's hard for men to do that because they don't like to do that, they take control and all that other stuff and all that other stuff. But if you just calm down and just sit there and, you know, pay attention to it and give you know, compassion, it can go a long way to having a more vibrant relationship, you know, with your spouse and with your coworkers.

Speaker 1 30:11

I think that would be the best thing that a man can do for a woman is just to be really open with communication, curious about it, and not that like, oh, I'm just going to leave her alone and let her, like you know, kind of deal with it, which I think a lot of men like to do too.

Speaker 1 30:29

It's just that like you know I'll just leave her alone so she doesn't have to, you know, be burdened by me. But I don't know a feeling of like we're kind of in this together is because the thing is like I said before men go through their own. They're not going through menopause, but they, but you are also aging along right with me.

Speaker 2 30:53

Right, yeah. So feeling it, feeling the aches and pains.

Speaker 1 30:57

So I think to maybe get on the same page with if you want to be looking at how you eat. You know, like right now, like we've got three kids but they don't live with us and so it's just, most of the time, it's just the two of us right. That's changed our how we plan meals and how we eat. I mean, we cook a ton at home but you know, just to be on the same page with it is super important, even being physically active together, or we do a lot of hiking.

Speaker 2 31:33

Do a lot of hiking, yeah, and.

Speaker 1 31:36

I think that's important too.

Speaker 2 31:40

Yeah, doing things together, so you don't feel like you're alone yeah you shouldn't suffer alone if you're suffering, if you want to call that suffering Right. So why don't you talk to me about the relationship of alcohol and menopause?

Speaker 1 31:53

I think. Well, first of all, alcohol especially. You know what I feel about alcohol and just health in general. I think that there is no level of alcohol that is healthy for you. That thinking of red wine is good for you and a little bit of alcohol is beneficial for your health is really a myth, and so I am very biased about this. I just don't think that there's any-.

Speaker 2 32:20

Well, I think the federal government is on your side here. They're saying no amount of alcohol is good.

Speaker 1 32:25

Right, no amount of alcohol is good, right? That said, when women are going through menopause and feeling physically like, let's call it miserable.

Speaker 2 32:38

Right.

Speaker 1 32:38

To mildly uncomfortable, that you know, and looking for ways to cope with it. Right, I think a lot of women fall back on alcohol to make them feel better, but this is a totally temporary fix. Plus, alcohol and menopause really do not mix.

Speaker 2 32:58

Why.

Speaker 1 32:58

The more like this drop in estrogen, you become a lot more sensitive to alcohol. A lot of women can't handle alcohol like they used to. They can't metabolize it the same way and even like one to two drinks can make them feel like really miserable. Right, and you know like can't handle hangovers and stuff like that, so it's.

Speaker 2 33:20

Throwing gasoline on the fire.

Speaker 1 33:21

Yeah, it's something that you want to really consider cutting out. I don't. I think it just aggravates symptoms and it doesn't really do you any good in the long run, and there's other ways to maybe help you cope. I mean there's therapy, there's meditation, there's, you know, making sure you get a sleep. I mean sleep. You know I've talked about this. I mean sleep is like everything to me. I'm not perfect with it by any means, but it's definitely something that is like very high priority on my list, because when I don't get a good night's sleep, my day is like is kind of done in sometimes.

Speaker 2 34:04

So what about the role of exercise every day, an hour a day? At least you know something cardiovascular.

Speaker 1 34:10

Yeah, exercise is great too. I mean, exercise is really great for you mentally and physically, and that, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 34:18

There's a lot of things we should be doing every day for ourselves, both men and women. Yes, you know, I men and women, yes. You know, I feel better when I exercise. I feel lousy when I don't exercise.

Speaker 1 34:28

Right.

Speaker 2 34:28

That's my mood. Yeah, changes.

Speaker 1 34:30

And these are things that you could be doing, maybe together more Right, which can help just forge the bond between the two of you.

Speaker 2 34:41

I have a bond with you. I found this conversation really informative.

Speaker 1 34:46

You have found this informative. Is there anything else you want to ask me about menopause? I mean anything that you can think of or anything that you feel like. Maybe other men, like I don't know, like friends of yours, would they be talking to their wives about this menopause transition? Well, that's why we're doing the podcast today to maybe, hopefully get this.

Understanding and Supporting Menopause Journey

Speaker 2 35:09

It's kind of like a let her be attitude of just you know, wait till she comes back from the dark side and then comes back, and that's probably what a lot of men maybe you know feel. But that doesn't have to be that way. That's a bias that you should get past because, as you can hear, it's like you know I don't do that to Heather, and you know so it's just simply a bias. It's a preconceived stereotypic notion in your brain. You need to remove it and that can go a long way to improving your relationships.

Speaker 1 35:44

Yeah, I think that's correct, that like, oh, let me leave her alone, let her get through this, but I don't think that serves anybody during this time.

Speaker 2 35:54

I think the other male guy thing that will happen is men tend to get defensive very, very quickly about whatever they're perceiving like it's their fault. So if you're watching your spouse go through something and she's going through menopause, or a coworker, you're going to intimately or just intuitively say it's my fault as a man and get defensive about it, and that's not going to help the situation either. So maybe I'll just pause, take a breath about what are you really watching? What's really happening here, and then give the benefit of the doubt. There might be other things happening. But if the person has told you they're going through menopause, well then definitely give them the benefit of the doubt and give them some space to have a conversation about it, and that may go a long way to avoiding a lot of unnecessary turmoil.

Speaker 1 36:43

So men don't take everything so personally, right?

Speaker 2 36:48

And I've done that, so I can say that I know what that's like, so I You've taken things personally. Absolutely Most. A lot of men do, because they want to be perfect and you know controllers and you know men and you know all that stupid stuff.

Speaker 1 37:01

So yes, Okay, but then when you get older, you know men and you know all that stupid stuff. So yes, Okay, but then when you get older, you learn that you get more wiser. So if I just said like, listen, I'm having a bad day and what that's my fault, no yeah. I mean yeah, okay, I understand that.

Speaker 2 37:14

That's a very large man concept that I'm sure a lot of people listening to this who are men can completely relate to me. On those two issues about women in a dark moment or being defensive, and that's what I kind of thought about before this coming on doing the conversation today, I was like those are really the two things I think men think about in kind of a reactionary mode and it's just unnecessary kind of a reactionary mode and it's just unnecessary and I think they can just listen to this as something really going on with your spouse or coworker friends and you really need to pay attention and that can go a long way to helping you understand them, because you're not going to control them in anything you do. It's going to just happen and you just go along with it.

Speaker 1 38:00

I mean, listen, this is like a temporary phase. All women go through this right and all women get out on the other side, kind of. I mean, once you go through menopause, like post-menopause, there's no post about menopause You're then always menopausal.

Speaker 2 38:16

the rest of your life.

Speaker 1 38:17

But I think this, like fluctuation in hormones, which is, I think, contributes contributes to the craziness of it and maybe you're in your moods and everything that's temporary, right.

Speaker 1 38:29

Eventually hormones level out whether or not you go on hormone replacement therapy or not. But it helps if I'm being on hormone replacement because it just helps relieve some of those like really nagging symptoms. But we all go through it and kind of get onto another side and if the men in our lives can just understand this, that this is a huge, huge change Like I can't stress that enough it is a big, giant deal for not for every woman, but for most women. For me at least, it's been a big deal and and it's definitely makes me like need to reevaluate a lot of things, just how I'm moving, how I'm eating, how I'm sleeping, how I'm taking care of myself and and to have a lot of kindness for myself and and compassion and and um, it helps to know that you're in on it with me well, I'm glad you actually feel that way about me, because that feels like I'm actually doing something and right.

Speaker 2 39:39

So that's what I mean. It's like I've gotten educated. I do read about this. I mean I have to take care of my own clients who go through this, but if I'm more educated, I have more of an understanding about this huge event that you're going through, and it's entirely right, and so I'm just grateful you've exposed me to all this, and now you've exposed all these people who are listening to this.

Speaker 1 40:02

Well, whether you like it or not, you're not going to expose. No, I don't, because I am a person who talks about it a lot and it's what I do for my career.

Speaker 2 40:11

I'm grateful to have the information because it's an awareness that it jumps over stereotypes. It does go a long way, I mean, and it's quick information. You can get on an AI, chat, GDP, whatever and just look it up and you get all your information in two seconds. You become educated. It's that quick.

Speaker 1 40:31

That's true, that's true, but you can also just have a conversation with your wife and get a lot of education that way as well.

Including Men in Menopause Discussions

Speaker 2 40:43

Sometimes men don't like to communicate, which is probably another facet of. I just discovered that communication is hard for men and that might be an obstacle, and maybe a lot of women are saying, yes, that's right and you know for many years that again, I'm older now so I'm wiser and more communicative, but men have a problem communicating.

Speaker 2 40:58

And more communicative, but men have a problem communicating, and so that might be an obstacle as well. So if that helps More communication, more understanding you can go a long way Because you want to be supportive of your spouse.

Speaker 1 41:14

That's correct. So I think that's a good way to end our conversation and I thank you so much for coming on my podcast today. I really appreciate it. I know this was not easy for you at first and I asked you to do me a big favor and come on and talk about it.

Speaker 2 41:31

I can do you a solid. I actually enjoyed it. I always enjoy coming on.

Speaker 1 41:36

Good, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 41:37

Well, thank you for having me, because I think that this is important.

Speaker 1 41:39

I realize you know I talk to women so much and it's just you know, and I'm trying to always keep this like dialogue, of communication, open with women because I think we need to talk about it. But it just kind of hit me the other day that the men in our lives don't have a lot of A role. Well, I mean they should and they just, you know, don't Like. It's just like I mean, if women are confused, men are even, like, really more confused.

Speaker 2 42:09

Yeah, I agree so.

Speaker 1 42:10

I thank you very much.

Speaker 2 42:12

Thank you.

Speaker 1 42:12

Heather, and maybe you'll come back again and we'll have another conversation.

Speaker 2 42:16

Anytime.