Are You Taking on Responsibility That Isn't Yours? (218)

When care turns into overload. In this episode, Emilia and Alan talk about emotional maturity, relationship patterns, emotional labor, and the quiet ways people start carrying pain, pressure, and responsibility that were never theirs to hold. For conscious couples and conscious singles, this conversation gets to the root of why so many people over-function in love, over-manage conflict, and feel drained even when they are trying to do the right thing. It also shines a light on how emotionally immature parents can shape boundaries, empathy, communication, and the roles we take on in adult relationships.

If you have ever felt like the stable one, the fixer, or the person holding everything together, this episode will help you see what may be happening underneath the surface and why that matters more than most people realize. Hit play before your kindness quietly signs up for another unpaid shift.

Show notes:
(1:44) Are you carrying too much
(6:08) Signs of emotionally immature parents
(11:54) What emotional maturity looks like
(17:08) Self-regulation in real life
(20:59) Balance feelings with healthy boundaries
(23:16) Traits of emotional immaturity
(32:26) How over-responsibility shows up
(34:24) Outro

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Transcript

Emilia Smith

(0:03) Conscious Couples, business partners, and individuals, welcome to the Conscious Couples podcast where we share our life, love story, and relationship expertise to help you consistently cultivate the most magnificent relationship possible.

Alan Lazaros

(0:18) Never again will you feel hopeless and alone in your intimate relationship challenges. (0:23) We'll help you have the courage to be your authentic self, communicate effectively, and constructively resolve conflict.

Emilia Smith

(0:31) Having accumulated thousands of hours coaching, speaking, podcasting, and hosting live events with Conscious Couples all over the world, Alan and I are here to guide you in all things relationships.

Alan Lazaros

(0:44) Thank you again for tuning into the one place where it's not about you or me, it's about the we. (0:54) Conscious Couples and individuals, welcome back to another episode of the Conscious Couples podcast. (1:01) Today we have episode 218.(1:03) Are you taking on responsibility that isn't yours, potentially? (1:08) Before we jump into this episode, as always, I want to remind everyone why we're here. (1:12) Let's ground in why we're here.(1:13) You are here for one reason and one reason only, as am I, as is Emilia, to improve our intimate relationship from the inside out. (1:21) Let's do that today. (1:22) Putting in the work, sweetheart, ladies first, what is your intention for today's episode?

Emilia Smith

(1:26) My intention for our listeners is to help them understand a lot of the emotional labor, emotional responsibility that they likely have weighing them down, preventing them from maybe doing certain things or feeling certain things. (1:40) How much of that is actually not their responsibility to carry?

Alan Lazaros

(1:44) So you recommended a book to me a while back. (1:47) I have not finished yet. (1:49) It is by Dr. Lindsey Gibson, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. (1:59) Yes. (2:00) Got it. (2:01) So I asked you when we were preparing for this episode, what was your biggest takeaway from that book?(2:05) And I think that's a great place to start.

Emilia Smith

(2:08) So the biggest takeaway from my perspective on this book, as we mentioned a little bit earlier, was how the adults that we were told when we were younger and in teenage years and as young adults ourselves, the adults that we thought were, quote unquote, adults, have it all figured out, are actually not really adult at all.

Alan Lazaros

(2:31) Okay, so everyone go back to when you were a kid. (2:34) I'm going to use me as an example, lead by example here, but I want you thinking of you. (2:39) I remember I did the traditional path.(2:42) So I did preschool, kindergarten, elementary school, middle school, high school, college and corporate. (2:47) And I remember in middle school, I thought adults had things figured out. (2:51) I remember in high school thinking my teachers knew better than I did.(2:55) My guidance counselor knew better than I did. (2:58) I'm 37 now. (3:00) And I have very, very strong memory.(3:03) And I have since rewatched the movie of my life. (3:07) And it is alarming how little these adults really did know. (3:14) And I do think my guidance counselor misguided me.(3:19) That is my truth. (3:20) The irony. (3:21) Yeah, the irony.(3:22) So when I was a kid, I thought my mom and my stepdad knew better than I did. (3:27) And I do not believe that at all anymore. (3:32) Turns out they knew very little.(3:34) Mom, if you're watching or listening, I love you. (3:37) And yeah, I mean, when you're a kid, you think that your parents know and you think they have more knowledge and expertise than you do. (3:48) And it's not until you grow up and become an adult yourself and you go, OK, I'm 37.(3:52) I remember when they were 37. (3:55) Oh, oh, when they were 37, they did not read books. (4:00) They were not.(4:01) Yeah, it was a different world. (4:02) So that's what we're going to talk about today is if you had emotionally immature parents. (4:10) And I am going to say that the Generation X, statistically speaking, correct me if I'm wrong, tends to struggle with vulnerability and emotional intelligence.(4:19) Is that fair? (4:20) That's fair. (4:20) OK.(4:21) And millennials are getting better at that, even though we also struggle. (4:25) And that's what we're going to talk about today, because I know we have a lot of millennials out there listening and maybe born in the 80s or early 90s like Emilia and myself. (4:33) And you realize after studying things like Dr. Lindsey Gibson that, oh, my parents never in a million years picked up this book. (4:44) And I wish so deeply that they had. (4:46) So what is your biggest takeaway? (4:49) Obviously, adults are not necessarily emotionally mature.(4:53) Age does not mean mature.

Emilia Smith

(4:55) It doesn't. (4:56) And that's when you said when you were talking about how I thought they knew a lot. (5:00) It's not enough just to know a lot.(5:04) It's so important as an adult to develop emotionally and through maturity. (5:09) And so the three signs that if you're listening to this episode and you're asking yourself, OK, how does this relate to responsibility taking? (5:18) It's a direct correlation to how much you will take responsibility for things, because people who have low levels of maturity, specifically emotionally mature, they're emotionally immature.(5:32) They lack the ability and the capacity per the development to take responsibility. (5:39) So what does that end up? (5:40) You end up with high levels of, number one, empathy.(5:43) So anyone, if you are feeling, yes, that is me, I am incredibly empathetic to other people.

Alan Lazaros

(5:49) Well, real quick, let's step back for a second and help our listeners identify if they did have emotionally immature parents. (5:56) What are some signs that if someone's out there watching or listening, a conscious couple or conscious single, how do they know if their parents were, in fact, emotionally immature?

Emilia Smith

(6:08) The three signs that I was just going to give are the equal opposite of what... (6:12) Which is why I wanted to step back. (6:13) Yeah.(6:13) Yeah. (6:14) So the first one is low empathy. (6:16) So the great example of this is when something happens to you, be it you fall and scrape your knee or someone makes fun of you at school.(6:25) In something that emotionally hurt or physically hurt, there's a, don't worry about it, there's a dismissiveness to it, rub some dirt on it and move on kind of sentiment. (6:34) In other words, low empathy. (6:36) So if you have an emotionally immature parent, they have low levels of empathy.(6:40) They're encouraging you to just move forward. (6:41) Yeah, but nobody identifies.

Alan Lazaros

(6:43) So nobody identifies as having low empathy. (6:45) So how do our... (6:47) Everyone thinks they have high empathy.(6:48) And it's like, how does our listener know if their parents are emotionally immature?

Emilia Smith

(6:54) Like I know the rub... (6:56) Dismissiveness.

Alan Lazaros

(6:57) Yeah.

Emilia Smith

(6:58) But what does that look like? (6:59) What does that look like? (7:00) It is not being able to hang in that moment with you and hurt, sad, disappointment, betrayals.(7:07) They don't know how to hold that space. (7:09) In other words, a low vulnerability is a component of that. (7:12) Low vulnerability.(7:12) Okay. (7:12) Okay. (7:14) So...(7:14) Or asking questions about what happened there, like, how do you feel like that's not ever on the table.

Alan Lazaros

(7:20) Okay. (7:20) Another good one would be, correct me if I'm wrong, you've never seen your parents cry. (7:27) That's usually a sign that there's a lack of emotional maturity.(7:32) Because crying in front of others, true or false, is a sign of emotional maturity. (7:38) Yes. (7:38) Okay.(7:39) Yeah.

Emilia Smith

(7:39) Okay, good. (7:40) Yep. (7:40) Yeah.(7:40) The second thing is, if you had an emotionally immature parent, then what you experienced was a ton of highs and lows. (7:50) So a lot of emotional instability. (7:52) There's no awareness of how their emotions are impacting you as a child or as a person.(7:59) So they could be extremely stressed out, slamming doors, upset, throwing things around. (8:04) Being a tornado throughout your household and don't have any regard for how that might impact you and what that might do inside of you. (8:14) Whether that scares you, whether you start to internalize the stress or frustration or anger or whatever.(8:19) And there's no conscientiousness of how their behavior and their emotional swings and ups and downs are impacting you.

Alan Lazaros

(8:26) So think of a movie that other people might know, who's a character who best emphasizes emotional immaturity? (8:44) Disney characters? (8:46) No, not necessarily.(8:49) Any character in any film.

Emilia Smith

(8:51) Gaston came up quickly, which was funny. (8:54) Yeah. (8:54) Okay.(8:55) Gaston.

Alan Lazaros

(8:55) That's a good one.

Emilia Smith

(8:56) Because he has high levels of egocentrism. (8:58) Like everything's about him. (9:00) Yeah.(9:00) And that's a really good indicator.

Alan Lazaros

(9:02) When I was a lad, I ate four dozen eggs.

Emilia Smith

(9:05) So yeah, pretty much any parent in the Disney films actually are really showcasing of emotional immaturity.

Alan Lazaros

(9:11) Which makes sense. (9:12) Which is why the hero of the story or heroine of the story has to embark. (9:18) So in A Little Mermaid, the father, yeah, they take him.(9:21) So number one, vulnerability, lack of empathy. (9:26) The other one, correct me if I'm wrong, lack of ownership. (9:30) Yeah.(9:30) Okay.

Emilia Smith

(9:31) Just so much defensiveness. (9:33) Like if you try to bring something up or share something, there's no ownership and there's immediate defensiveness. (9:39) There's a reason why that points everywhere else but here.

Alan Lazaros

(9:43) Okay. (9:44) So the emotionally immature parents cannot look in the mirror and go, wow, I fucked that up.

Emilia Smith

(9:51) Absolutely. (9:52) Okay. (9:52) Yeah.(9:52) Awesome. (9:53) And to that end, one extension of that, emotionally immature parents never actually are willing to take feedback from their children because there's an inherent power dynamic. (10:02) Someone that's emotionally mature, regardless of if you have kids or not, they're willing to learn from their kids.(10:07) And so if you have emotionally immature parent, they're never asking you questions about your life in the way that they genuinely and sincerely embody the respect for you as an autonomous soul that can bring value into the world, that can educate them, that have awarenesses outside of them. (10:23) And so emotionally immature parents are really good at never asking you about yourself, what's going on in your life and specifically getting curious with that genuine respect at the center point of it.

Alan Lazaros

(10:32) And if they do ask you about your life, they're not actually curious. (10:36) They're just trying to have surface level conversation to check the box. (10:39) Okay.(10:39) I had a pod... (10:41) That's called intellectual empathy. (10:43) All right.(10:43) So I had a podcast I was on recently with a man named Art and Art was 57, 58 and I thanked him at the end of the interview because while I'm a 37 year old man, I said, I really appreciate how much you actually respect and we're asking questions from sincere curiosity instead of this ego. (11:06) Well, I'm 57 so I must know more than you. (11:09) That very well might not be the case at all actually.(11:12) And I said, thank you so much for treating us as equals on this show. (11:18) A lot of men who are older have trouble doing that because they must know more because they've been on this planet longer when in reality not even close. (11:25) So there's another part there, that's the autonomy thing.(11:28) That's the, if we are emotionally mature, just because you're 31 and I'm 37 doesn't mean I inherently know more than you or that I can't learn from you. (11:38) And when we have children, I'm going to learn a lot from my children and I plan on that and that takes emotional maturity. (11:44) So okay, so you just gave signs of emotional immaturity.(11:48) Can we talk about signs of emotional maturity that are very tangible? (11:54) Yes.

Emilia Smith

(11:54) And before I do, I just want to give one more, the high reactivity. (11:58) So I mentioned the highs and lows, but it's how quick are they reactive? (12:02) So we talked about the defensiveness and the not willing to take ownership, but emotionally immature individuals, parents are not, they are always so reactive and they will go through those swings so much.(12:14) And what they're not doing is leading through a thoughtful response. (12:19) They're not, they don't give it, they don't give a rat's ass about how their emotional reactivity impacts you. (12:26) And I kind of touched upon that, but I just want to go a little bit deeper in that because ultimately there's no ability to be emotionally regulated to be able to have a thoughtful response for you.(12:37) So the signs that, that you might be taking on more responsibilities that isn't yours is the direct impact of you experiencing the high emotional reactivity with a lack of a thoughtful response.

Alan Lazaros

(12:52) And a lack of personal responsibility because if, if you grew up with parents who don't take responsibility, you inherently took that on because someone has to. (13:00) Okay. (13:00) So you're used to that and that's probably manifesting in your relationship to some extent.(13:05) Absolutely. (13:05) And it did manifest in our past relationships where we were taking 100% of the responsibility in our past relationships and now we both are fighting for 100% which is working out really well because when both people take 100% responsibility, you end up creating something magnificent versus 100-0 or 80-20 or whatever. (13:22) I want to make this as clear as possible for the listeners.(13:25) Can we talk about the indicators of emotional immaturity before we go into the responsibility piece? (13:31) I think that's too big of a bridge. (13:32) I just want to talk about signs of emotional maturity now.(13:35) So we talked about the signs of emotional immaturity. (13:38) Let's talk about the signs and the indicators of emotional maturity.

Emilia Smith

(13:41) Okay. (13:42) The signs and indicators of emotional maturity. (13:45) The first thing that I go to is the ability to regulate yourself.

Alan Lazaros

(13:49) Can you think of someone who is the, don't think of me, not that you were gonna, but I want you to think of the most emotionally mature human being you've ever met other than you or me. (13:59) Don't put us in this. (14:00) And talk about that person, about what are the indicators that they are emotionally mature?

Emilia Smith

(14:08) Okay. (14:10) This person who is emotionally mature has the ability to, despite what is happening inside of her, meaning all the emotions she is feeling at once, she's able to recognize those, not bypass those emotions, but she's able to regulate and hold a steady, calm, thoughtful response to the people that she engages with around her because she loves and cares about them. (14:33) And she knows what it feels like to just be reactive in all of the emotions.(14:38) And so she is regulated amongst the storms of emotions that she's experiencing.

Alan Lazaros

(14:44) Okay. (14:44) Another way to phrase this might be, she is calm amongst the storm and she is not. (14:51) One thing I've noticed about emotional immaturity is people are always distracted.(14:55) They have to be distracted. (14:57) They have to point and talk about other things, persons, places. (14:59) They can't sit in silence and just contemplate and be in the contemplation of what may or may not be going wrong in life.(15:14) It's almost like they have to distract away from any indicator that life isn't perfect. (15:21) Right? (15:22) Or they have to shop, or they have to go online, or they have to be on Facebook.(15:25) Did you hear about... (15:26) Or they have to listen to some yak radio.

Emilia Smith

(15:29) They welcome in the distractions. (15:31) Yeah, and I love that you mentioned that because her ability to maintain that regulation is of utmost importance to her. (15:39) She's actually a client and this is her...

Alan Lazaros

(15:42) I think I know who you're talking about.

Emilia Smith

(15:43) Does it begin with an A?

Alan Lazaros

(15:44) Nice. (15:45) Of course. (15:45) What a coincidence, one of our favorite human beings.(15:48) Shout out to you if you know who we're talking about. (15:49) Holy crap. (15:50) I didn't even know you were talking about her, but I figured you were because I agree.(15:54) And what a pleasure to work with this woman. (15:56) I know, she's wonderful. (15:57) I think emotionally immature people are hard for me to work with.

Emilia Smith

(16:02) They're my least favorite people when it comes to having a thoughtful, intentional relationship because you literally cannot have a equal relationship in any regard with someone who's emotionally immature because inherently you're kind of pushed into this, I need to take more responsibility if I want to have this relationship. (16:23) And this is something she struggled with very much. (16:25) Okay, what are some other indicators?(16:28) Another indicator is what I was just kind of closing out saying is it is the utmost importance for her to maintain that ability to regulate because she knows how important that is for her own peace of mind and operating within integrity of her values, her core beliefs and her core aspirations. (16:44) And that's her compass. (16:45) So what does that look like though?

Alan Lazaros

(16:47) I want to make this as tangible as we can. (16:48) What does that look like? (16:49) So if I were to walk through with a camera on this woman throughout the day, give me a great example that someone could actually see.

Emilia Smith

(16:56) So she has a couple of kids and there was one time where one of her sons had said, I'm going to be at this person's house, a bonfire or whatever, and I'll be back tonight and I'll let you know. (17:08) And it was like nine o'clock and she's like, I don't think he's home yet. (17:13) And she was like, huh, that's interesting.(17:15) And she goes and they share locations because that's been mutually consentful, not her forcing that. (17:20) And she's like, okay, he's, he's in the location, which means he's not coming home, which means like, they're probably drinking. (17:26) And like, he knows how I feel about that.(17:29) We've had adult conversations about that. (17:31) And I obviously am upset at the fact that he didn't communicate, but like, Amelia, like, I want you to know, like, I just woo sad myself. (17:40) And I then just let him know, like, Hey, I'm here.(17:43) If you ever need me, I'm willing to come pick you up. (17:45) So like in real time, what you would see is her being like, okay, logging data from a rational standpoint, not what other parents would do in that situation, which would maybe throw their phone and be like, or call right up their, their child and be like, what the hell you call that to me, whatever, whatever, all these things. (18:01) That's again, emotional reactivity, as opposed to what you would see observing that is like her going and like in a joking manner, but truly you would see that for her because she knows the power of her breath.(18:15) And in order to maintain that regulation, in order to honor connection over emotional reactivity and that connection with her son is most important than how she's feeling and the emotions that are coming up and down in that moment. (18:32) So what you would see on the day to day, some of her practices, she is journaling actively whenever she does have a really big or multitude of emotions, she's aware of that. (18:41) So she's journaling down or penciling in her phone.

Alan Lazaros

(18:44) One came up for me too. (18:45) I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this, this needs to be said. (18:47) I think whenever you meet someone who is not strayed that much by fads, they're not strayed that much by any one thing.(19:01) It's like, if, if a wave hits them from the right, they still stay the course. (19:05) If a wave hits them from the left, they still stay the course. (19:07) And again, to make this tangible, I, let me get an example of this.(19:16) When certain trends or certain fads, I'm going to use this example. (19:19) When Clubhouse was big, I told Kevin, brother, this is a fad. (19:26) We're staying our course.(19:28) Someone who's conscientious and goal oriented and emotionally mature doesn't just drift with whatever tide of what fad is happening. (19:35) Oh, did you hear this and that and politics and all? (19:37) They are very steadfast.(19:40) They're very stoic. (19:41) There's no huge high, crazy highs, and there's no like hissy fits and super, super low lows. (19:47) It's, it's, they're, they're much more regulated in, they don't get wildly freak out when a new movie is coming out, but they also don't freak out when the movie doesn't come out.(20:00) And they handle disappointment well. (20:03) And again, it's hard to tangiblize this stuff.

Emilia Smith

(20:05) I'm actually really glad that you brought that up because when we talk about emotional immaturity, usually the person who usually the adult child of an emotionally immature parent ends up becoming, they swing the pendulum so much that they're so steadfast. (20:18) But why they're doing that is because they're fearful of ever having the high and low. (20:22) So the stoicism becomes like this, like pride and honor, which I went through at some, at one point, and I've learned a lot through stoicism.(20:29) But if you just go through and keep stoic and keep maintain the course, and you never develop the skills of sharing intimacy and emotional intimacy, and you maybe take overly responsibility of the anchor being the emotional anchor of the relationships, that's a sign that you are taking on more responsibility in your relationships because you are swinging on the total opposite. (20:53) And I have to be there for everyone. (20:54) I'm everyone's anchor.(20:56) I'm all this. (20:56) And it becomes the avoidance of emotional intimacy.

Alan Lazaros

(20:59) So then what's optimal? (21:01) Because on one end, you are the emotional train wreck, and you're emotionally mature, and you need to grow up. (21:08) And on the other end, you're so emotionally mature that you don't feel any joy, right?(21:14) And you always are regulated and centered, no matter what happens, and you can't get too excited about anything.

Emilia Smith

(21:20) And someone who's deeply emotionally feeling is probably not knowing what you think, what you feel, and what the emotions are that you experience. (21:28) So you never have that emotional intimacy, because if you do, that's really scary. (21:33) Well, so how does someone get to five?(21:34) So five is recognizing low empathy versus high empathy. (21:39) Boundary empathy is five. (21:41) Okay.(21:42) Number two, emotional instability versus emotional anchoring. (21:48) The middle is emotional stability with boundaries. (21:53) And regulation.(21:54) Exactly. (21:55) Number three is the tendency to become overwhelmed and reactive with your feelings without any thoughtful approach. (22:03) The other end of that spectrum is overly thoughtful, analyzing every single detail, and thereby ultimately avoiding emotional intimacy, action, et cetera.(22:14) And so the five of that is recognizing you can't avoid, and you can't hyperfixate. (22:19) You need to be able to be in a thoughtful response, honoring your feelings and your emotions, not taking on the responsibility of the people around you, and not taking on, being able to discern what is my emotions, what is that person's emotions, and putting both on the table so that they're not on your back.

Alan Lazaros

(22:38) Okay. (22:39) Last piece, we'll get out of here. (22:41) I'm going to do an exercise with you and I live, where I think of someone anonymously who is wildly emotionally immature.(22:50) Okay. (22:50) And I'm just going to give three bullet points of character traits that indicate that. (22:55) What I really think of her or him.(22:57) Okay. (22:57) In this case, it's her.

Emilia Smith

(22:59) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(22:59) And you're going to do the same thing anonymously. (23:03) And we're going to do both with both. (23:04) Okay.(23:04) So I'm going to go emotionally immature first. (23:07) All right. (23:07) And I'm going to say three bullet points that I really believe are true.(23:10) And I want everyone to see if you have any of these or anyone you love has these. (23:14) Okay. (23:15) Number one, bullet point number one.(23:16) This is an emotionally immature human being. (23:21) She throws hissy fits whenever something doesn't go her way. (23:25) Number two is she can't handle disappointment at fucking all.(23:30) Like does not handle disappointment. (23:31) Gets devastated with every time something doesn't go the way she expected or hoped. (23:37) And then the third one would be cannot take a lick of ownership.(23:42) Because deep down, she doesn't believe in herself. (23:44) And she doesn't believe she can change anyway. (23:46) So she just is super defensive.(23:48) All right. (23:49) Now I'm going to do emotionally mature. (23:51) Different person.(23:51) Can I add one bullet point? (23:53) Because this is something most people will feel too. (23:54) Well, I want you to do yours.(23:56) You're going to do this right after me. (23:58) Okay. (23:58) Yeah.(23:59) So here's someone who is extremely emotionally mature. (24:04) Okay. (24:05) Bullet point number one.(24:07) I have never seen her lose her cool. (24:13) I've never seen her lose her cool. (24:15) She has the best self-regulation skills I've ever witnessed.(24:21) Number two, she is extremely goal-oriented and is always trying to find the win-win-win scenario amongst the chaos of life. (24:33) And she has to do that with thoughtful conscientiousness and not reactivity. (24:40) Number three, she is hyper-conscious and acutely aware of her impact on others.(24:53) Almost to the point where it's like, babe, get rattled. (24:56) I'm talking about you. (24:58) It's like, tell her what you really think.(25:00) She's disrespecting you. (25:02) No, but I'm talking about you. (25:04) And I just wanted everyone, I didn't plan on saying that, but I want everyone to know the, you've worked on this.(25:12) You've studied this.

Emilia Smith

(25:13) Yeah, this is a skill that can be developed. (25:16) And I'm not taking on more responsibility than is mine in our relationship. (25:20) And if I do, it's a conscious conversation that you and I have.(25:24) And if I do, I know where my boundaries and where my limits are. (25:28) And then eventually we put it back on the table and have a discussion on how we can have an equitable relationship that doesn't carry, like, I'm not carrying all of the emotions in our relationship. (25:39) And you've been extremely proactive.(25:41) Babe, you have been the most emotionally mature male I've ever been with. (25:46) So it's wild to be able to share in this conversation because I know men, and I will go through mine. (25:55) I know men who will...(25:58) This is emotionally immature? (25:59) Yeah, emotionally immature. (26:01) Has no idea how to express their feelings.

Alan Lazaros

(26:03) I want you to think of an actual man. (26:04) Yeah, I am. (26:05) Okay, good.

Emilia Smith

(26:05) Has no idea how to actually sit with me in a tough conversation. (26:12) Has no idea how to validate emotions. (26:18) Has no capacity to, when I express something that has a degree of emotion that's not fine, positive or okay, everything's great, unable and no capacity to say, something along the lines of, how did that impact you?(26:38) Where did that come from? (26:40) What are your thoughts around that? (26:41) I'm really sorry that happened.(26:43) That must feel X, Y, Z. (26:45) No capacity. (26:46) Okay.(26:47) Okay. (26:47) Second one, someone who is emotionally immature, the same person that I'm thinking about, the emotional instability translates into, by your behavior. (26:59) Meaning when feeling something that's unpleasant always results in a purchase.(27:05) Buying something that is a stupid decision of how they're spending their capital.

Alan Lazaros

(27:13) Okay.

Emilia Smith

(27:14) And ultimately is not a good choice for them and ends up becoming something that... (27:22) Yeah, they're dealing with their emotions with something external purchasing. (27:26) Trying to relieve that, but ultimately not, doesn't end up relieving that.

Alan Lazaros

(27:29) Which by the way, is another sign of emotional immaturity, which is drugs, alcohol, vices, shopping, addictions, all these things to cope with emotions, rather than actually learn how to deal with them.

Emilia Smith

(27:39) Exactly. (27:39) Yep. (27:40) And then the third component is ultimately, I think therefore I am.(27:46) Meaning not in the way in which the actual Stoics think, it's more so. (27:52) I feel therefore I am. (27:55) I feel like bad about myself, therefore the situation is bad.(28:01) I feel like that person's nice, therefore they're a great person. (28:06) And what I'm describing is this person experiences what's called affective realism. (28:11) Because they feel that way, it must be true.(28:14) And for someone who is emotionally mature... (28:16) There's a disconnect between reality and how you feel. (28:19) Exactly.(28:19) And you can contemplate that. (28:21) Exactly. (28:21) So the narrative, it always changes.(28:24) The narrative is not reality. (28:25) It's not rooted in any reality.

Alan Lazaros

(28:26) The narrative is to cope with emotions. (28:28) Exactly. (28:28) Okay, so now talk about someone who is deeply emotionally mature.(28:32) And I actually don't want you to use me. (28:33) Not that you were gonna, but I realized... (28:36) Cute.(28:37) So I use you because you are the most emotionally mature person I've ever personally met. (28:42) Thank you. (28:42) And I wanted to use you because I want...(28:46) Even if I was going to keep that anonymous, I want everyone out there watching or listening to be able to identify someone like that. (28:53) Right. (28:54) Because the person who is the most emotionally mature is usually the unsung hero of all endeavors, unfortunately.

Emilia Smith

(29:03) Yeah, that's true.

Alan Lazaros

(29:03) And so I want to make sure that that's not the case with you. (29:06) So I wanted to celebrate you a bit. (29:07) But I really do want you to think of someone outside of us who you genuinely, sincerely believe is wildly emotionally mature.(29:14) And describe three quick bullet points about him or her.

Emilia Smith

(29:19) Okay, so this person, they are extremely emotionally mature. (29:26) Emotionally mature?

Alan Lazaros

(29:27) Yeah, mature. (29:28) Right? (29:28) That's what I'm doing.(29:29) Okay. (29:30) Immature and immature sound very similar when you say emotionally in front of it.

Emilia Smith

(29:34) Emotionally mature. (29:35) This person is very mindful of how, when they feel their emotions, if that externalizes to their partner at all, what the impact is. (29:47) So that person is very conscientious about what they're saying to the partner, how they're saying it, the tone of voice that they're saying it with, and how it might come off to their partner.(29:59) And they don't want to hurt their partner. (30:00) So they're mindful of how, what they feel if externalized impacts a partner. (30:07) Okay, number one.(30:08) Number two, they are focused on developing habits and systems and skills that ground themselves in rational thinking, not to bypass their emotions because they recognize their emotions are really important and are signals, but to ultimately offset the emotional reactivity that is very much available to this person as a human. (30:35) And as a result, all of those systems and habits and ways of thinking help him, this person to navigate their life in a way that is mature. (30:46) In comparison to all their peers.(30:48) You're not using me, are you? (30:49) I'm not. (30:49) Okay, good.(30:50) And then number three, the third one, although... (30:55) I need to meet this man. (30:56) Although this man is very mindful and takes a thoughtful approach, this person has worked on his own avoidance of all of the emotions that are in other relationships and has worked on this concept exactly of not taking on more than he needs to, more responsibility for the lack of emotional maturity in his family, more for the lack of emotional maturity in his relationship.(31:31) And he has had to try to navigate that line with vulnerable, courageous communication. (31:37) Oh, I know what you're talking about. (31:38) As he brings emotional maturity into the people that he loves and cares about.

Alan Lazaros

(31:43) Very nice. (31:44) Very, very nice. (31:45) I think begin with a B.(31:46) Yeah, yeah. (31:47) Maybe. (31:47) Cute.(31:48) Okay. (31:49) So to wrap this up, if you're out there, if nothing else comes of this episode, identify your level of emotional maturity, whether or not your parents were emotionally mature. (32:07) And same with your partner.(32:09) Mm-hmm. (32:10) And then how does this tie to responsibility? (32:13) If you, like Emilia and I, had some emotional immaturity in your upbringing, you probably take on more responsibility than what is optimal in your relationship, like we used to do.

Emilia Smith

(32:26) A great example of this is every household has a ton of different tasks in order to keep the order and maintain the routines. (32:35) For example, dishes, laundry, things like that nature. (32:39) When you have someone that is incapable of being mature or has moments where they're coming home from work and they're stressed to lighten the load or take off their load, you might go into taking up the laundry, taking up the dishes, doing things that are proactive, quote-unquote, ways in order to lighten their experience so that you're not experiencing that reactivity.(33:01) And so that's where that translates into cognitive labor, physical labor, emotional labor. (33:06) And that's where that connects to responsibility. (33:09) Because if you're stressed out, if you're feeling burnt out, if you feel overwhelmed, likely it ties back to exactly what we're talking about.

Alan Lazaros

(33:15) Okay, beautifully said. (33:16) Is there anything you want to add before we go? (33:17) We do have to get out of here.

Emilia Smith

(33:18) No.

Alan Lazaros

(33:19) Okay. (33:19) All right. (33:19) Thank you all so much.(33:20) We appreciate it. (33:21) I know we have an event coming up, so.

Emilia Smith

(33:22) Yes, the top three things women struggle with in their relationship. (33:25) There are three critical zones that we're going to be focusing in on this relationship. (33:29) And we also have determined that we are going to be sharing the film Mrs. Doubtfire in that to be able to share some of the challenges that we continuously see with women as they struggle in their relationship. (33:40) And this is for men and women, because these are the cheat codes that will help your relationship stop the struggle so that you guys can work better as a team.

Alan Lazaros

(33:49) Speaking of which, when we watched Mrs. Doubtfire, it's from 1993, so it's way back, the villain in the film is actually the woman who is taking on all of the responsibility. (34:02) And it's so interesting how she was villainized in the film. (34:06) So this is going to be a really good study and fascination, especially from the frame of emotional maturity and emotional immaturity, because I think sometimes emotional immaturity is actually celebrated in movies like this.(34:17) And it's actually funny, but not necessarily good or optimal. (34:21) All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. (34:23) We appreciate it.(34:23) We will see you again next week. (34:24) And as always, it's not about you or me. (34:26) It's about the we.(34:28) We'll talk to you next time. (34:29) Bye, everyone.

Emilia Smith

(34:31) Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Conscious Couples podcast. (34:35) We love connecting with the Conscious Couples community. (34:38) So please check the show notes to connect with us and say hello on social media.

Alan Lazaros

(34:43) If you and your partner resonated with this episode, please leave us a five-star review at the link in the show notes and share this with someone you love. (34:51) Until next time, it's not about you or me. (34:55) It's about the we.(34:56) We'll talk to you next time.