The Weekly Download

Rec Room is shutting down & could Disney buy Epic?

• Season 1 • Episode 24

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The Weekly Download by Big Games Machine is your essential weekly speedrun through the biggest stories in the global video games industry. 

This week's headlines:

  • Rec Room, once valued at $3.5B, is shutting down later this year
  • Disney is reportedly keen on buying Epic Games, but may be waiting for the right opportunity to make the move
  • Eidos-Montréal announces 124 job cuts with studio head David Anfossi departing after 19 years

Hosted by industry experts, Tom Heath and Alex Beech, we break down the most intriguing, complex, and vital developments of the week to keep you informed.

Prefer your news in written form? Subscribe to our free newsletter for a concise, easy-to-digest summary of daily industry developments, delivered fresh to your inbox: https://bit.ly/big-games-machine-the-daily-download

Links to today’s talking points:

SPEAKER_00

The weekly download, a podcast about interesting game, industry news.

SPEAKER_01

Brought to you by Big Games Machine.

SPEAKER_00

Hello, hello. Welcome back to the weekly download brought to you by Big Games Machine. Today I um once again I'm your host, Tom, and I am joined again by Alex. It's like at what point do we stop introducing ourselves, but it's always just in case anyone It's always somebody's first time, Tom.

SPEAKER_01

Always somebody's first time.

SPEAKER_00

That's true. Listening to our lovely uh thoughts and our dulcet tones. Our dulcet tones. But yes, if you are new here, welcome, welcome along. This is the weekly download. It's our weekly, if you could guess it, speed run through some of the biggest stories in the global games industry. Now this is just things I want to talk about, but that's exactly sometimes just Resident Evil, as Alex will attest to. He always finds a way to get it into every episode. But this week might be a bit tricky looking at our headlines. So we've got three big stories for the week. The first of which is that Rec Room, a social gaming platform, once valued at$3.5 billion, will be shutting down later this year. Next up, we've got Disney is reportedly keen on buying Epic Games, but maybe waiting for the right opportunity to make the move. We've seen a lot of Disney a few years ago, they put 1.5 billion into Epic Games. So they've they've made these moves before. We see a lot of Disney characters in in Fortnite. So could happen, but we'll discuss that more in detail in a bit. And then the last big story of the week is that EDOS Montreal has announced 124 job cuts, including studio head David Ann Fosse, who departs after 19 years.

SPEAKER_01

Now normally I take massive runs and mistakes at names. Is it isn't it IDOS or is it EDOS?

SPEAKER_00

EDOS, IDOS. The makers of JuS Du Eva. Deus Ex. There we go. The makers of Deus Ex Human Revolution and the rather acclaimed Tomb Raider trilogy. So now you know who we're talking about. Anyway, we'll break away, we'll come back, and we'll make sure we get everything right, pronunciation-wise, when we start on this first story about Rec Room. So we're gonna kick off. That's that's gonna make the cut. Now Alex doing his little warm-up exercises. We're gonna kick off this week's episode with the news that social gaming platform Rec Room is shutting down. Once the biggest game in the VR world, Rec Room will officially close on June 1st. For some context, for some data here, because I think people need to understand how big this is. Over the decade that Rec Room has been operational, the platform has hosted over 150 million players. A company behind Rec Room has received nearly$300 million in funding over that time. But the reason really for this closure is because they just never reached sustainable profitability. Now, on that idea of sustainable profitability, last year, earlier in 2025, they laid off 16% of their staff. They slashed another 50% of the total workforce later in 2025. So at this point, the team has shrunk from around 300 to 310 employees to just over 100. So this definitely feels like a last resort. It's clear that they've tried to correct these things. I think one more thing of note before we'll we'll open up the floor to you, Alex, because I know you have some thoughts. Rec Room's business model was very much reliant on UGC, user-generated content. However, after paying app store fees and creator fees, they were only keeping about 30% of every dollar that was being spent on this UGC. So very big story. We've seen a lot of stuff around VR with layoffs and other such and companies kind of bouncing into it and then bouncing out. I think PSVR 2 is another good example of this where we've seen big investment and then all of a sudden everyone turns around and they're like, oh, okay, we're not investing in that anymore. But this does feel like a really big one, Alex. It's as we said, some of these numbers, 150 million players over a decade, that's they can't complain about the fact that no one's heard of them or no one's been playing.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, no, absolutely. And I I do I do wonder what 150 player means. Like, did they go to an event and every person they strapped it onto was another notch on the board? Or because VR, obviously, I mean, blew up massively back in the mid-teens, certainly coming into like the I remember when I started at Big Games Machine many, many years ago, we were just coming in. Doing like Arizona Sunrise and all these other games at that point that were blowing up and like everybody was covering them. And then, as we've seen uh the last few years, the the interest there has diminished rapidly, the number of publications and outlets that are focused on VR or cover VR at all, outside of like Half-Life Alex and the handful of things that drive interest and the the Batman game that they put out for the Quest 3. You just don't really see people talking about much.

SPEAKER_00

And then also, of course. I I think there's a real passion obviously, there's a real passion for it in the space. You've got like content creators and and those niche websites, as you've said, that really go hard on this stuff, but that wider engagement we don't really see, I don't think, unless, like you've said, they are tied to big IP. It does feel like the wider interest in the VR ecosystem is well, meta's kind of pulling the plug on it as well.

SPEAKER_01

That kind of like virtual office space seems to have kind of gone by the wayside, which you know had less kind of overlap into the the game space. But I think actually that the I think this might it might be kind of a victim of two sides of the same thing happening at once, which is attention has become so scattered and such a like a high drive to capture people's attention is kind of like the metric a lot of people are essentially gauging success on at the moment. And I think when I play a game, I'll quite often put a podcast on if I'm into the my new shot of it. I'm doing this or I'm doing that. VR is by its very nature just like all-encompassing, and it's amazing for the first 30 minutes in there, like it's engrossing. If you've got enough space, I I have a small, small room in my house, and it it's difficult for moving around and feeling like you're there without being 100% sure I'm gonna punch a TV in the street. In a wall or a yeah, well, a couple. I I I was visiting my friends recently, and that I put my my meta quest for um my godson to play, and he put it on, and I watched him, and like it was a big room, and I'm watching him drifting towards the wall, and every time we'd be like, stop, stop, stop, stop, and you have to go over and like essentially just lift him up or move him afoot, and and and you you lose yourself in it, and that's absolutely incredible, but it's also wildly limiting, and it's obviously an investment to go in, it's an investment to all these parts, but your your time, the money, all of that. And I just think that a lot of people find it incredible as an oddity for a while, and there's obviously as you say, the people are absolutely fascinated and committed to and converts to it, uh, and you know, they use it for socializing, they use it for playing and all these other and creativity, but those that aren't, it's just in the truest sense, just like a really locked-off system. Like it doesn't allow you to interact with your family, it doesn't allow you to be checking your phone, it doesn't really allow you to do all these things that people are part of people's media diet. And I just think that VR in general suffering that and rec room's just downwind of it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because as yeah, I've not I've not played Rec Room, I don't know if that's the right word. I've not engaged with it as a platform, but it it feels like this is another example of a situation where stuff like Roblox has kind of stolen its thunder. The UGC element, but also just that socialising with people. There's such a big barrier to entry with most VR stuff, really. I know there's some more affordable headsets, but you're I think you're always going to struggle to bring new players on because it's such a a big investment. And if they can go and do most of what you can do in Rec Room in other places, then I mean I I feel how much of the initial success of these kind of platforms was because of that era of YouTube videos where people would just be like going into random VR rooms, and many of a video I've watched of people just having random conversations with like people from across the world in these VR rooms, and and that's the kind of stuff that does make Rec Room so I guess good. Something else of interest, I think, that not to not to just bring up AI, I feel like we always have to bring up AI, but interestingly that the creators of Rec Room went heavily in on AI features as a potential pivot for the game. So there was an AI companion called Rumi, who was kind of a an LLM-powered pal who you could talk to, have conversations with, I guess, if if no one's playing the actual thing at this point, then you could talk to Rumi. But interestingly, the server and computing costs for the for this AI per user exceeded what those users were paying in subscriptions. So even that attempt at a pivot using new AI tools was not pointless because I I respect the artistic intent behind it, but really just put them in a worse position than without it. So I I I think really the the underlying thing I'm seeing across this whole situation is that it's they've tried, they've tried a few different things, they've tried reducing the size of the team, you know, they've tried to add new features, but it just seems like as we've seen with many games, live service or otherwise, the industry, the populace of players and such, there's just not room for this anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think they were downwind of some real bad luck, the explosion of Roblox. Obviously, Roblox is around already, the attention economy blowing up as I kind of led to the kind of death of and that impacting the uptake and and subsequent death of VR and how long And the metaverse. The wonder the metaverse and the wonder of VR, but then the very quick drop-off of that. But yeah, the AI bit feels a lot like I feel like they probably came to that party a little late with a hope that it might get them more investment to keep going a bit longer. But the moment you said that the cost, the server, the moment you said server, I was like, oh yeah, of course it's gonna cost a fortune to run something like that. And if they're already having problems bringing in money, this is not the solution they're gonna be hoping for. So Yeah, yeah. It reads like a run of bad luck in terms of the way things went, because I I think it was probably a a what's the word? An instance in time, they were probably like that that that level of money made a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00

And look at the 300 million, and I wonder, well, how much of that was from the number of tech companies that jumped onto the metaverse train, and then I feel like Mark Zuckerberg revealed that really wonky Eiffel Tower, and then ever since then it's all been downhill. But I do, you know, the rec room is something that in the you know sci-fi films, when we see these people going into these big virtual worlds and everything looks amazing, I think that's the kind of promise of it. But the issue is I I I just think it's really hard to deliver on that. And and I think the point you've made a few times, Alex, about the fact that people impulsively, when they're playing games now or when they're interacting on with friends on Discord or anything, if there's a lull for even a moment, they're they're checking their phones, they're seeing what else is going on, and that's a not a good thing, but I think that's the kind of stuff that plays into why this isn't an attractive platform for modern players, for modern users, really, because if you just want to chat with people, you can do that on Discord, you can do that in so many ways, and clearly the VR elements haven't outweighed the issues to make people want to use it.

SPEAKER_01

And the way you interact in VR is limited to that one way. I mean, obviously the UGC, I don't I neither of us have used Rack Room to any length. But you know, what you can do in VR is narrow, like it would not you're doing what you're doing when you're in VR. Whereas this isn't the attention thing. It's like if you're playing Roblox, there's all the different experiences you can have in there. You can use Discord to chat about while you do anything together. Whereas like the headset limits you to that the activities that are on the little smorgasboard in front of you there.

SPEAKER_00

So our next story sees us revisit Epic Games, who of course we spoke about last week in regards to the layoffs that were announced. This time, slightly different, we're gonna go from layoffs to the rumours that seem to gather in a little bit of pace that Disney may in fact be looking to, or elements within the Disney hierarchy are interested in acquiring Epic Games. Now, the real push for this this week comes from a tech reporter, Alex Heath, I must say, fantastic surname. Great first name. Yeah, true, yeah. It's always this is this man even real, or is he just an amalgamation of us? R-A-I, when we run another thing. Yeah, Mr. Alex Heath. But Alex Heath, who may or may not be Alex and I, claims that senior Disney executives, uh, and there's all the words in this, reportedly eyeing up a full acquisition of Epic Games. One of the big factors behind this is that Disney's new CEO, Josh Damaro, is a known supporter and proponent of the partnership that Epic has with Disney. That started in 2024 when Disney initially invested 1.5 billion for an equity stake in Epic. And since then, so just over two years now, we've seen a lot of this Disney universe of sorts growing within Fortnite. A lot of collaborations, we've seen Star Wars, we've seen Disney Star Wars, we've seen Disney, we've seen Disney villains, we've seen Marvel characters. So I think there's definitely Yeah, and start with and the Star Wars season. You know, that there was a whole Star Wars season.

SPEAKER_01

So it's very much we are seeing that Disney are putting their footprint into the the Fortnite world, but obviously this would be a a huge I mean the m and it goes beyond it goes beyond the Fortnite element in terms of, I mean, I'm aware that you know they that they I believe Epic were doing a lot of the stuff and the graphics on some of the rides now, the more digital rides at Disneyland, which I didn't know about till somebody shared a video with me yesterday about another story, and then it kind of transitioned into to that.

SPEAKER_00

Well it it's un it's Unreal engine, isn't it? And I think that's a massive part of this, is that because I think that the the Mandalorian I was gonna say the volume effects. Yeah, a lot of that was from Unreal. As much as this is kind of I think Fortnite is the big thing of like, oh, Disney owning Fortnite, to me, I think the idea of Disney looking and thinking Unreal Engine, all of a sudden, we can kind of not not to say it this aggressively, but we can have a chokehold of how this entire industry makes games and we could own that, which could end up being better than the idea of owning Fortnite if if last week's engagement drop is is anything to go by.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes, well, exactly. I mean, you know, they all not surmised, guessed, that's not the word I'm looking for either. Predicted? We considered the idea that a lot of the problem, there's a word I'm missing, this happens occasionally. I'll take it. I can remember I remember video game names, but not words. Um we we kind of speculated, there we go. We speculated the some of the reason for the drop in money was the licensing fees they were paying to get the characters in game. Suddenly that's out of the equation. Disney doesn't have to pay that flow back and forth of money, and I guess in some ways that's that movement is probably good in other ways for the companies. But if you can cut that out and you've got all of that talent, all of those resources, all those things in house, and that's pure profit coming in from consumers, that's gonna seem appealing. The more and more they overlap, the more and more sense it makes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I again we all of this is speculation. Do I think this is going to happen? I don't know. I I think we saw Disney retreat from being that that first party development that they used to have. But you know, I I sit and think if if we're in a world where this would happen, is this gonna be a you'll have like a a hub, a Disney hub application or game or or however you want to describe it where there's everything Disney in there. You know, you could have like a a literally like a virtual Disneyland of here's all our IP. You can watch content through here, you can engage, you can play, you can, you can shop. Um, yeah, there's there's lots of potential. I think it is worth noting that as far as I understand, Tim Sweeney is entirely in control of this. This isn't a situation where anyone can make that decision without him deciding to do it. It's very much his decision to make, and I think we've seen through you know these big battles Epic have had with the app stores. I think Sweeney values the independence that Epic as his own entity brings. So I'm not sure if he would be happy with the idea of Disney telling him what to do. Well telling Epic Games what to do and him by extension.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I am I mean th those fights with the stores, yeah, it's independence. It's also putting 30% of the money back in your pocket. So like it depends on whether you look at it as independent. I know you were, and I'm and I'm not. Obviously, they're both bit that you know business side of it, that they have their reasons for doing that and completely understandable for for wanting to move out and get control of those elements for the right price. I'm sure it makes a lot of sense. And and going back to your original point, and maybe Epic is waiting for or sorry, maybe Disney's waiting for their moment. Like we've seen the downsides, we've seen the engagement dropping. If that continues, if the current changes don't pan out as expected, and you know, the engagement drops further or or purchases drop further, does that just put make the a sweeter deal for Disney to come in and take it off their hands? Because obviously they've pumped so much into Epic used to be like it was an engine, like it we know this, um this isn't news. But some people might not know.

SPEAKER_00

Some people might not there'll probably be people who are like, what is Unreal Tournament?

SPEAKER_01

And then I'll be like, oh they become so deeply entrenched with Fortnite as their kind of the the driver for a lot of their business, I imagine I can't.

SPEAKER_00

And and where most of the attention and conversation is, is with the Exactly the Fortnite. But what does that look like when that starts to struggle? I'll I'll be interested to keep an eye on this, because I think it's gonna be so will I. I I think that Yeah, again, we we we're speculating on something that may not even be considered. I do I think if something like this does happen, as always I am concerned when we see more consolidation. It's you know, the epic for their for their um sins and for their whatever the opposite of sins is, for their good deeds. Virtues, you know, they think yeah, they are they are a strong independent entity, and I think it's important for them to exist like that. But then I do think it makes total sense to Disney. If Disney really look and they think, well, are we at are Disney at the limits of what they can do in cinemas, at what they can do with merch and and with toys and with TV, and and if they want to make that play back into the world of games, I can't think of much better options than something like Epic.

SPEAKER_01

They've been in and out of it so many times. I would say if if Epic Fortnite is their next play into the world of games, which obviously, you know, Unreal extends beyond or Epic and the Unreal Engine and everything else they bring extends far beyond Fortnite for Disney. Start there. But this would be the biggest swing they've taken into the world of gaming. Like I remember when they had like they made some fantastic games. Obviously, you've got Forgetting LucasArts, which are now under their umbrella as well, I'm sure. But you know, you you the split second game I absolutely adored. Then they came back with Disney Infinity when the Toys to Life thing was around. I think that was the last time that they did everything did anything in-house.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like the first Epic Mickey game, because there was two of them, wasn't it? I think the first one was in-house as well. Yes. Uh Warren Spectre, I think. They just did is that the one they just re-released with the HD remaster? I think they've re-released the first one. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean i Yeah, I d I don't know. We'll see. I I think that I will say, and not just because his first name and second name are both great, but I don't think that Alex Heath would be speaking about this if there wasn't some truth to it. But then Disney's a massive organization. I don't think it matters what one or two people on the board or at the top say necessarily, because though it's not a decision of one or two people. So I imagine there is the interest, definitely. Will it happen? Maybe. Will it happen anytime soon? No. And I think even if it does come to fruition, as we've seen with Microsoft and Activision, I can imagine there'd be a lot of pushback legally because of the consolidation aspects to it and the monopoly side of things, which we did see with Microsoft.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they live they live in different worlds, I think is the one thing that would count in their favour there. But yes. Here we are.

SPEAKER_00

Next time we'll just argue the legal case on both sides, wouldn't it? Let's not because we're experts, obviously. Um anyway, on that on that statement that's definitely true, we'll uh we'll wrap this section. Alex is worried now about getting a cease and desist in the post. Uh we'll wrap here and then we'll come back and talk about iDOS Montreal. IDOS. I'm going idos. We'll go idos. We'll come back and we'll talk about iDos Montreal. And we are back with our final story of the day about EDOS, IDOS, Iidos, whatever. EDOS EDOS EIDOS EDOS Montreal, who are behind Deus Ex, and he'll do that again. Deus Ex Human Revolution, Mankind Divided, and the to me, really good Tomb Raider trilogy, of course, that we saw released throughout the 2010s. Yeah, I'm I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just starting playing that third one of those, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, finally.

SPEAKER_00

Good timing. Get it in now before the studio shuts potentially and the game disappears. Absolutely. Um but yeah, a big round of layoffs at um iDOS, 124 roles. The biggest of those is the longtime studio head David Anfossi, who has been at IDOS Montreal for 19 years, so since 2007, kind of leading the studio through that golden era, which saw the release of those games we've just mentioned. He is leaving. Second round of layoffs within the last few months. Most reports are saying that the original projects the teams were working on have been cancelled. And it feels, sadly to me, as a really strong single-player studio in the past, that now they will be very much focused on code development. They're working on Fable and Grounded 2, both from Microsoft. So it looks as if their role now is in a much reduced capacity, and going forward, they'll primarily be a support studio, which I feel like we keep seeing this, and it's quite a sad way for to go out, I think, to some of these. Maybe I am thinking too much into it, but we've got some of these legendary studios, and even if the people there are different, the name is still the name, and they've been relegated to support. Um but Alex, I know you've played the Deus Ex games.

SPEAKER_01

So this is I played all of these by the last one of um the two movies. Which you've just started just said, yeah. I did start I started it previously. I'm restarting it, I should say.

SPEAKER_00

I told Alex this would be on the newsletter uh the the episode an hour ago, and he's gone in and played all of those games in the hour since. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But equally, I think Mankind Divided, where they left off uh the last DSX game, they were looking at another. And at that point, I think they were owned by Square Enix, and they never met not they they never met revenue targets, whether those targets were feasible because the game sold pretty well, is my understanding, as my recollection, I should say.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we we know Square have got um Square Enix, sorry, we know Square Enix have got history with really big sales projections and then being like, what happened?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, especially with the Western Studios, though, is that is like the thing there. But you know, they they picked this up. David and Fosse uh it was been there since the beginning of the studio, like not to go and talk about other things, but uh human revolution had has this amazing breakdown of its development by H. Bomberguy, and it goes on forever around. Like it was set up, like it's picking up a it's being renamed by the original company's name, but isn't the original company's name as it was being bought by Square Enix, as they were moving office, they were making this game, and it this is all happening at once. And David's been there through all of that uh and kind of witnessed it all, and and as you say, it's kind of it's sad to see that kind of history with a studio. Uh it sounds like he's leaving on his own as the changes um uh are made, but it it still feels like a sad way for that to kind of come to a conclusion.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, and and I again not to you can only speculate, but even if he's leaving off his own volition, he he he's probably looking at what's happened to his studio and thinking, why stay?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And we've seen a lot of that though, a lot of you know these established names leaving studios they made, or they played a key role in flourishing into what they were and and going off and and doing their own thing. But it it's because we do see more and more of studios becoming support studios. I think it's something that Ubisoft have always been very good at is having these big global teams who all, you know, or what what are you working on? Or we just do this part of Assassin's Creed, or like you know, the the support studio model has been there for a long time, but it really feels like we're seeing a lot of traditionally tent pole studios in their own right slowly being shrinked into parts of the bigger picture. I don't know, it's it's one of the questions that I wrote in the script for today was does these examples show that we always see executives, I think, talk about how like single-player experiences are dying or people don't care for the they do, they clearly do, so I'm not gonna question that because it's obvious that single player games are still as popular as they've ever been, perhaps. But I wonder if this kind of news shows that unless you're a single player game either on the really indie scale or you've got a big IP and big sales attached to you, is there really room for those experimental, more niche?

SPEAKER_01

We're forgetting one of their last games, which was Guardians of the Galaxy. So that was a single player. Some would argue, yeah, exactly. Which would no, what I'm saying is like even with a large IP, that didn't do as well as they want. Perhaps in part sunk by the fact the Avengers game the previous year.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's the I will blame the Avengers game for that. That Guardians of the Galaxy game is really good. It's a really good game. Uh but then that was five years ago, and well, what have they done? What have they been working on since? FIF VR. Okay, well there we go.

SPEAKER_01

Going back to an earlier point, wrong end. Downwind of some other problems for both of their last games.

SPEAKER_00

It is kind of forgot that um they they'd done the Guardians game, but then I imagine that was a very big budget. And and you're right, I think why why did that underperform? Probably because but I don't think Crystal Dynamics were the Avengers, weren't they? So that was more a case of the I think the Marvel IP for those few years because of the Avengers game really suffered and Guardians did suffer as a result. It's a really good game.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think visually it did it enough to differentiate itself because they were both coming out under Square, I think. So, you know, I think that muddied the discussion around what the game was. But no, I I I think it what it comes down to is it like, yeah, we're we're looking at some we've looking at a studio that has made some incredible games, stewarded through some of the biggest franchises in gaming, literally, Tomb Raider and DSX weren't theirs initially, but ended up in their hand on uh uh and they they did them proud. Yeah, yeah, good job. Uh and yet still we find ourselves here um as they've been passed around like a hot potato between some massive corporations and perhaps some of their games didn't perform uh to targets, perhaps some, and I suspect Guardians did underperform given the probably the the costs involved with the production, but uh they've weathered a lot, and it's like you say, it's sad to see them I don't want to say relegate, I guess relegated to a support studio uh or a satellite rather than be at the bad lead.

SPEAKER_00

I think that that has a negative connotation to it, as if we're saying that being a support studio is a bad thing, but that's not the case. I think it is it is the the tragedy is that you know it it is a shame to see, like you said, like I've said, it's a shame to see these big studios with big histories become, you know, are we ever going to see a game come out with IDOS Montreal as the developer behind it? Probably probably not. They're going to become another studio name in a credit, which I think is sad. Because if it was a studio that I really cared about, you know, that not that I don't, I'm I'm sad at this news, but if it was a studio which I had a lot of love for, I do think when I look at games as the art that they are, that's just sad to see. Because it it's like the it's like a legendary footballer ending up at as a substitute for a team in the seventh tier of of of football, and and you're like, oh, they they used to be really good, didn't they? And and what's happened? Sorry to anyone who doesn't care for football, because that won't mean anything to you.

SPEAKER_01

But but but then then and they are and they may still be really good, is the the point of that, right? But it's strange.

SPEAKER_00

We don't know. Yeah. But yeah, I I think we'll not to make things sad, we'll finish there, but we'll we'll come back in a moment. We've got a special rundown this week where we're just going to be talking about the Mario movie. Not that we've been to see it. We're we're more gonna be looking at it from the industrial angle, I guess, but we'll we'll break for a moment and then when we come back, we'll uh we'll space work on industrial, you know, build the donkey long throw. Bring back the plumber. Bring back the plumber, not the space explorer. And we are back with the rapid rundown. This week, as I said, we're going to be taking it's not yeah, it's not really the rapid rundown, it's it's like Mario talk this week. Film talk and film talk, yeah. New film corner where we look at video game film reviews and say Will the audience listen to how bad the reviews are? In the case of this new Mario film, apparently not, because it's already it's had the best opening day of the year so far for 2026, and because of the long weekend, it is projected to have a week, an opening weekend of just over$350 million. It's got a lovely 43% on Rotten Tomatoes, but I believe the audience score is in the mid-90s, which, hey, I'm part of the problem, but tells you everything you need to know about video game films, really. Do they need to be good films? No. Do they need to have loads of cameos and references that we can go, oh, I know that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Does a six-year-old read a review, or are they have they been screaming at their mum to take them to it for the last six months during the half term? Or during the remote, you're telling me that you don't think a child is sat reading the Guardian review of the That was a scathing review in The Guardian. That's certainly what we need to link to. I think they gave it no stars.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I I read it and and I was slightly concerned, but the point you've made is the correct one, Alex, and I think it's a testament to you know, I think people forget sometimes perhaps how many characters who are as old as Mario no one really cares about anymore, or no one there isn't such prestige attached to them in a way that you know the the Super Mario franchise is like over 40 years old at this point, yet you've still got generations and generations of kids who come out batting for these games and the IP and the toys and the Lego and the films every single time. And I credit Nintendo for that because I think it's it's really impressive, and at least the games are on the whole fairly good. I can kind of forgive the films being a bit naff to use my favourite English words.

SPEAKER_01

I I mean I there's always quietly a movie section to this podcast because I always drag up video game movies at some point. The Resident Evil films. Not just the Resident Evil film, I was about to say, like all the Juve Bowl things, all of that kind of section. Like I am a huge fan of bad video game movies. I don't think this is gonna be bad in a way I enjoy. Um I did watch the first one. Holy like I had fun watching it, but I was very unimpressed. I don't remember much of it. I'm not sure. Oh, I've never watched it again. I've I loved watching it. Enjoy it. Here's Noxymoron for you, I guess. I didn't enjoy it, but I had fun watching it. If that makes sense. There is no moment in it I was like, I wasn't having fun. But I got to the end and I was like.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you you think when a really big game comes out, like you've obviously had this really recently with Resident Evil. I thought I was gonna have it with Pocopia, and I've ended up having it actually with Pokemon Fred, which actually I beat the uh I beat the Elite Foreign Champion last night. Well done me. I've got to tell everyone about that because that's where life is. I'm celebrating my achievements no matter how big or how small. But you really I feel like the you know, the this film will do well because you kind of get caught up in the the moment of it, in the I don't think I'll ever get tired. And as we were speaking about before we started recording, I will get very tired of this if the Zelda film sucks. I don't think I'll get tired of seeing these characters that I grew up with and continue to have such great experiences and memories with in on film, in TV, you know, I I love the The Last of Us, the TV show. I know some people don't like the second season. Hey, a lot of people hate the second game. I think it's one of the best games I've ever played. So happy to take the the hits on that. But I I just think there's there is something special in seeing those characters that you love in in new ways. And you combine that with the fact that, as you said, Alex, there will be scores of children across the globe who, thanks to the success of the Switch, have been indoctrinated by Mario and his friends, who will now be like, Well, we have to go see the Mario Galaxy movie, like we have to go see it. And it's uh it's an easy watch, you know, I imagine, for parents. It's Nintendo, they don't need to worry about anything too risque in there or anything too above board. I think it's I don't want to be the person who's like, just turn off your brain and enjoy it for what it is. And I value critical opinion, but it's not for us.

SPEAKER_01

No, and it I'm sure it flicks around to keep everyone's attention, and I'm sure that there'll be memes in there that won't unless you know what's going on. Yeah, that you you're sat there going like, okay, I didn't get that, but the kids all will, and you just end up in this kind of like, well, as you say, not necessarily for me. Um so yeah, I mean, I I'm I'm not surprised it's doing well. Uh I will be interested to see how opinion shifts when it continues to do well, or if it will continue to be as savage as it has been. But ultimately, as long as the kids are enjoying it and it's entertaining enough for the parents that are forced to sit alongside them. And for you, Tom, because I'm sure you're going out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, when I I need to find a late night and viewing so I can enjoy it with uh with other people. But I mean it's a great. Yeah, and it eventually ends up on. I mean, uh uh probably like the opposite of a testament to the first one is when I went on my trip to Singapore last year and I had those two very long flights. Could have watched the Mario movie. No, I didn't. But I imagine I'll watch this and then never watch it again. I think my only Oh, it's great for Nintendo. I think my only concern is what I raised to you before we we started recording, which is that I think Mario can kind of get away with it because there's no stories to these games. Like I'm sorry to upset anyone who thinks that who you know values a narrative in a Mario game. There's not a single Mario game I've ever played where the story has me gripped. So I I think the films were always going to struggle because they don't really have stories to work with, they just have gameplay, which is why I'm I'm glad that like Watts in it, and that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, you're dragging me down a weird path here because like the first Silent Hill game movie rather kind of follows part of the game, but swaps some of the characters around and does change things, and ultimately a Silent Hill game can just be anybody in Silent Hill. Like, I think there's a franchise where you could have got away with something different. The first Resident Evil movie was meant to run parallel to the games, and the second one was kind of overlap with a new character, and then it went did its own thing entirely for like the next four movies, and then they tried to reboot it in a re-reimagining in the first game, and that did really poorly and with good reason, but there were some great performances in it. And now the the guy coming around again, I can't remember his name, he directed Barbarian and Weapons. David Hasselhoff can't remember, somebody's gonna David Hassel will be amazing, but no. He's like, I'm gonna get I'll get crucified if I don't like follow the law of the games. I'm like, I think you can make something in that universe that's a novel story, and it would absolutely be accepted by fans if it's done well. But yeah, I don't think Mario has much of a story beyond the interactions of the characters and the the the joy and fun of it. So is it important that you stick to that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no Yeah, I d it is to me it's like a microwave meal. Is it great? No. But it's a fun way to pass a few hours. Again, my concern is just like look, the the Zelda stuff. Don't this doesn't the critical response doesn't make me worry about Zelda because it's it's an entirely different studio and such handling it. I just hope that Nintendo doesn't take lessons from this in terms of like, oh well we can kind of not that they've gone out there to make a bad film, but we don't have to worry about it's I always call it that it's like the Pokemon theory. Like you don't need to worry about the quality of the product as long as as long as you attach the IP to it. No, and I say that as someone like I love Pokemon, like I do, but I know you do the lesson that I think parts of Pokemon Company have taken is that it doesn't matter what you release, as long as you put it out there. And having read some of the reviews for the Mario for Galaxy film does feel a bit like they've they've doubled down on everything that was wrong with the first one, and it's very much full of moments. Everything's very moment to moment, and you know, like I'm not looking for some overarching plot as long as it's I don't mind getting slop as long as it's tasty. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01

Can't say fairer than that. Um yeah, I I'm I'm a huge profan. I like as long as it's entertaining for the people that choose to watch it, I guess is the bottom line. That's enough.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not gonna worry too much.

SPEAKER_01

But I don't think something has to follow the plot of what it comes from. I just think that it should encapsulate the. Well, it does it. It should encapsulate the feel.

SPEAKER_00

We we know that I'm not gonna spoil it, although Nintendo did in their marketing before it came out, but we know from one of the massive spoilered characters that pops up in it that isn't from the Mario series, but is an animal that goes to space, that's all I'll say. We know they're kind of going out there with it anyway, so I don't and and there's Pikmin in it, but Pikmin are in everything now, so it feels like they're I think they're just having fun with it. I imagine Miyamoto is like, this is great. Like, everyone loves Mario and Pikmin, life's complete. Yeah. But we'll uh we'll we'll wrap up our very insightful takes on the Nintendo movie universe right there. That is the end of this week's download. As always, if you are more interested in the stories we've spoken about, you'll find the links to them in the Description wherever you are listening or watching. Be sure to like, subscribe wherever you're watching or listening, whether you're on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music. And if you would like even more news and even more great stories, you can sign up for the daily download newsletter in the description below. That is Monday to Friday daily news, all the biggest stories in the industry. We also have the weekly download available via LinkedIn, which touches on some of the topics we talk about during the podcast, but also has Monday to Friday a few stories from every day just to make sure you get that quick Friday morning afternoon summary of all the biggest stories of the week so you can stay informed. But that's everything. That's all the uh all the marketing spiel from me. My last thing to do is Alex, thank you for joining me on another episode. Thank you as always. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate the thanks back. And thank you to you listeners, viewers, watchers, however you are interacting with the daily, the weekly download podcast, I should say. Thank you so much. And we'll see you next time. Goodbye.