The Weekly Download

Xbox Kills AI Assistant ‘Copilot’ on Consoles & How Important are Exclusives?

• Big Games Machine • Season 1 • Episode 29

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SPEAKER_00

The weekly download podcast about interesting games and industry news brought to you by Big Games Machine. Welcome back to the weekly download brought to you by Big Games Machine. I am joined, I'm your host, Tom, of course. I am joined again by Alex, although Alex is reportedly having some connection issues. So we'll see how we'll see if we are joined by him today or whether he uh he dips.

SPEAKER_01

I'm here right now.

SPEAKER_02

Introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00

I'm here right now, and that's all that matters. Live in the moment, Tom. That is all that I would like you to live in the next few moments as well so we can get through the episode. Although I very much appreciate the cavalier spirit of your remarks. But yes, we are back. I'm joined, of course, by Alex, and we are as always looking at a few big stories from the last seven days in video games. So we've got three big stories today, the first of which is kind of less of a story. We're going to be looking at uh Sir Kana have released a new survey that has some very interesting data about exclusive games, which I feel like we we always are talking about exclusivity. And we know that recently Sony pulled back on PC releases, and Xbox are internally having these conversations, and then Nintendo are just sat there like, yeah, buddy, you're never gonna get our game on anything else. And but we'll be looking at this, these things about exclusivity. We'll also be taking a little look at EA's latest financial results with record performance, is the the headline from EA's latest financials, of course. EA soon to be acquired by the uh Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund. So I'm sure they're very happy that their future asset has had such a good quarter. And and then on the topic of Xbox, we will be taking a little look at the news that Xbox CEO Asha Sharma, new in the role, has confirmed that Xbox is winding down the presence of Copilot on its consoles. It was announced in March that Copilot would be coming to Xbox consoles, but Sharma's come in. And despite her very pro-AI persona, perhaps in history, this is something where she's turned around and said we won't be doing this on consoles. So there's our summary of the three stories to come. Alex, is there anything you'd like to add before we dive right in?

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. Not to add, it's an interesting trifactor. I'm looking forward to getting into them. Uh especially actually the first story, because I I I think it's a really interesting finding. But I'll let you introduce Sirana after the break.

SPEAKER_00

And we are going to kick off this week's episode with the news around this Circana survey that has revealed a few interesting data points, but I think the most interesting and the most notable, so we'll spend most of our time there, is the fact that exclusive games remain the biggest draw for consoles. So 41% of respondents to this survey cited exclusive games as their primary reason for purchasing hardware. Interestingly, it still remains the biggest reason, but it's actually dropped 8% since last year. So we've gone from 49% stating that as their number one reason to 41%. So I don't know. I mean, it's I don't know what necessarily could have caused that drop, but it's interesting that people are focusing on it less. But go on, Alex. I think you do.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's that people briefly there thought that we were about to enter some kind of weird nirvana where everybody was allowed, we're just sharing their games across everything. It's like, oh, you want my game? Yes, have it on your Xbox. Oh, you want my game, yes, have it on your PlayStation. And I think there's been a course correction from that. I mean, I come from an era where even third parties tend to have to commit to what device they were building on. So the idea you bought it for the games was always, you know, where are the better games? And uh now it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you think Square Enix is a good example of a long, long history. Of course, uh, the original Final Fantasy VII was a massive thing in part because of the move away from Nintendo. Exactly. And then we've seen them continue that with remake and with rebirth, and now they've turned around and said, Oh, actually, we're not we're not doing this anymore, we're not doing exclusivity because it's not financially worth it.

SPEAKER_01

Because there's less and less reason, because and unless they're being incentivized by the platform holder, the the software and to an extent the hardware behind them all are more aligned, more similar. So so that's kind of changed. So in my head, partly I'm like, yeah, you you pick where the better games are, but they make up a smaller and smaller portion. And you know, ever since like the PS3, maybe even the PS2, you've been in a place where that there's a small concern over about where it runs better. Like at the time I remember, what was it, Dead Space. Everyone was like, yeah, Dead Space on Xbox is better, partly because it ran slightly better, but also when you were saving, you stayed in the in-game UI. Whereas PlayStation had demanded that everybody kicks out to the same to a uh uniform save screen. So that took you out of the game in a way that didn't happen on Xbox. So yeah, I I think you know, it it makes sense that its importance goes down and down as the number of games and the things it impacts is, and I think this is more likely than not a bit of a blip and a and it will course correct as the not the world, but as well. So you think it'll you think it will go back up again? I think it may. I mean, the pl as it sits, the multiplayer games are likely to be on everything now. I think that I think we're probably not putting the genie back in the bottle on that. I think Helldivers probably showed that even if there's a bit of a delay having things on all platforms make sense to keep that player base active, even if it's just PC. But I think it will readjust ultimately. It might not go back up as high. Ultimately, there will be fewer games. They likely will all be on Steam if nothing else. Possibly not with PlayStation, though, as we know. They've been a bit more cagey about it.

SPEAKER_00

And also, there's a lot of people out there that do just play the FIFA and the Roblox and then that was that was a point I was going to bring up is that I think obviously Xbox may change in the future, but Xbox you can kind of get their games for the last few years, and we've even seen games like Starfield, which were exclusive, end up coming to other systems with Nintendo, it's it's always exclusive, and that's the reason why I think people buy Nintendo hardware. I don't it's a reason why I buy it. There's no other reason it is to get the exclusives to oh and and the the hybrid nature of the Switch.

SPEAKER_01

Is that how you were you asked this question? Would you take the idea that I buy Nintendo for platform exclusives? Is I don't know what I what I'm trying to say is in my head that's not what I'm thinking when I make that decision, but it absolutely is the reason for the decision. I don't quite know how to explain what I mean there. I'm buying it because it's Nintendo, and Nintendo will have the platform exclusives I want, but it's it's not because I'm buying it for specific games.

SPEAKER_00

You're you're kind of buying it. I guess you're buying it because I don't know, you know that any games in I always feel like there's there's kind of a flaw with most Nintendo games, so you can invest in a system quite early, and you know that across the lifetime of it you'll get some good experiences. I to come back to the point you made about a lot of people, if we look at the games that people are playing most, it is games that aren't exclusive, which is why I can imagine this drop a little bit might be because it's exclusives are less important than perhaps they were. I mean, I look at Sony and I don't Sony don't publish exclusives anywhere near the same rate that Nintendo do. But then I think that's because Sony has a different relationship with consumers. I don't think people are I mean, it comes to let's look at something else, because I think this does relate to what I think I want to talk about, which is we've got other data here that so 38% of respondents cited that they play on a specific console because of friends or family, that's where they play. And then 37% do so because of the ease of that social interaction in that kind of situation. Yeah. To me, that was when I was younger, that was very much where my decision making came from, much to the small story time, much to the agreements of my parents, because I remember being 16, 17 when the PS uh 4 and Xbox One came out. And I remember going to, I think I must have been in college at the time, going to college, and everyone was sat down. We were like, right, which one are we gonna get? And we was like, right, Xbox. We'll go Xbox because a lot of people were on 360, so it was like, okay, we'll go to Xbox One. Then I go home and I was like, oh yeah, we're talking about the new things today, and it looked everyone's like thinking about getting Xboxes. The next day, all of a sudden it was like, oh no, actually, PlayStation is a place to be. And I remember going home to my parents and being like, oh, actually, I think PlayStation's where we need to be. And I learned a few years after that my parents had gone out and bought an Xbox One and then had to go back and return, and this makes you sound very spoilt, but they had to go back and return it for a PS4. But I think that that to me feels like just important of a factor as the exclusive. So I'm not surprised that they line up quite closely because even though crossplay is a thing now, I still feel like there's something in loading up the PS5 or your Switch or your Xbox or Steam, and you go into your friends list and all all your friends are online and and you get into a party. And I I think one of you can't underestimate how much that drives people probably to PC as well, if that's where their friends are.

SPEAKER_01

That's one of one of our colleagues, previous colleagues, past colleagues, I was playing helldivers on a different platform. And granted, it was near launch when everything was a little bit on fire, but trying to get into a game with him was an absolute nightmare. And it's like just just buy a PlayStation.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, come on, come on, come on, be normal.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, I mean it is easier, you know when people are playing, all the other bits in there, you don't need to put into the game. Yeah, you know, the console walls have shifted, the the reason to be on one platform or another is definitely less pronounced now.

SPEAKER_00

I imagine if you'd had there might be data out there, but if this question was 10-15 years ago, I feel like that number for the exclusivity being the reason why would be so much higher. Because I mean I yeah I I'm aware that it's like with GTA 6, I'm aware that PlayStation have signed a marketing deal, so everything you see for GTA 6 will be play on, you know, play on PlayStation. But you know, I think in the you're looking like the 2000s and the 2010s, Xbox and Microsoft had a deal with Activision and Call of Duty, where you got access to the content, the new maps and and all the DLC a month before you did on any other platform. And I and but that's just not much of a thing anymore. And as as we've spoken about before, so much of the gaming population are playing games that are on everything. I don't think something like Ghost of Yote coming out at the end of last year, I don't think that's a system seller in the way that exclusives were a decade ago.

SPEAKER_01

Because I think people Spiderware is, Wolverine will be, PlayStation still has exclusives that could still sell a system, I think. But they Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It just feels like to me that a lot of we're at maybe it's because of where we are in the generation, but especially with PlayStation and I guess we have to mention Xbox, um, despite their rather weak sales in comparison. But people are people have bought the hardware and at this point ironically, I think the biggest system seller for Sony in years is going to be GTA 6, which will be available on Xbox anyway, which is which kind of counters this point. But I I mean I think looking at this data it it definitely explains why we're seeing this potential reversal from Xbox and from you know Ashashama coming in and and recognizing that even if exclusives aren't as important as they used to be, there's still a value there that putting your games on everything. Maybe you're making more money, but the prestige of the brand to me is lower. I think if we're ever in a situation where you can play Zelda games on PC, Nintendo's brand suffers massively because of it, because it's not this closed-off ecosystem, this kind of prestigious you have you have our hardware, you have our games. It becomes a bit like, oh yeah, well, if you want to buy a Switch, you can, but you can play Zelda on I just I don't even want to say it again. I could feel like I'm gonna be sick.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, you're absolutely absolutely I I'd love to see I obviously we've only got in front of us, we've only got a few years' data, what what that would have looked like over the last 10 years and then the kind of ups and downs. But I I would imagine this was a I mean 8%, it's a large drop. Uh I do not have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00

I imagine in like 1995 it would be like 99%.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely. But I'm thinking a lot along the lines of I bet I bet there will be a rebound on that. Perhaps not up as high, because you know, as as Fortnite, Roblox, all these things that do sit across both. But I do think that with all the companies being a bit more protective of their their IP again, like we tested it, we've decided not to. I think we're gonna see some of that rebound. I think it was this kind of hope last year that we were about to enter a different era.

SPEAKER_00

It would be interesting to me to see a potential breakdown of people answering this question but also listing their preferred hardware. Because I imagine if you ask this question to a thousand people who only play on the switch, that figure would be ridiculously hard to play.

SPEAKER_01

Is that is that 41% just people who own a Switch?

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, it could be a case where you've got PlayStation and Xbox users are at 20% and That would be fascinating.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. To see it broken down by platform, th those percentage answers.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I just think you it'd be hard to ask that. Because if if I was doing this and it would be a case of that my main hardware changes every day. Because it depends on Well, it it it does though, or maybe not every day, but every every month or so. I mean, if if you ask me when the new Spider-Man game comes out, well, I won't touch the Switch for weeks. Whereas Well Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm not sure that's main though. Here's the thing I I I yeah, yeah. I I I think in my head I gravitate to one as my main. And I think that's the one that is the first one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, basically. Which one's my Resident Evil machine?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

PlayStation is. PlayStation, yeah, yeah. And I think interesting data. I think the last point that I just want to touch on briefly is the if we look at this the social aspect again, I think the fact that that still ranks so highly demonstrates that it almost is irrelevant how different platforms market themselves. Because for a lot of people, that decision does just come down to where their friends are, where their family is, where the people they play is. And I don't think, especially with crossplay now, I don't really think there's much you can do about that because people will buy the hardware they want.

SPEAKER_01

It does it does beg a friendly. It does beg a huge question, though, because obviously for 360, Microsoft dominated in most regions, at least certainly the more profitable regions. And then the the mistakes they made, which we've talked about ad nauseam previously, for the Xbox One really kind of sank the brand loyalty. And I don't mean brand loyalty in that sense, I mean ecosystem actually, because you know, people won't come off of Android or iOS because that's where everything, their operation is. Yeah. And if friends are the backing abyss, and you know, people very rare. Everybody screams about backwards compatibility, but the moment the new machine comes out, everybody just wants the new games, really, with a handful of exceptions.

SPEAKER_00

You you're talking to the person who the last three games well, the last two games they've completed, and the third one they're currently playing are Pokemon Fire Red, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2.

SPEAKER_01

We we know Nintendo sits outside of this. Like people just are they you know, I wonder how much the momentum on hardware just is going to maintain. I wonder what exclusive it would take to pull people back, I guess. If 41% is truly the reason and the next season the next console's coming out, what would that game have to be? Would it would it have to be a new game that reviews really well and just goes, you know, breaks out like uh Halo did? What that would be. But it must be it must be really interesting for public as they start to think about their new consoles, it must be a really interesting this insight must be really interesting for what they're thinking.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome back to our second story of the day. There's been so many technical issues we've just been having, but because of the power of editing, hopefully you don't have to worry about that. So we're going to take a look now at this news about EA. They've released their latest financial data, and we've got record performance to talk about, thanks to mainly Apex Legends and Battlefield VI. So Battlefield 6 hailed as the best performing entry in the history of the franchise, which I think is of note doubly so because of how horrifically um 2042 did. So really obviously great for EA that Battlefield 6 has has rebounded, and I think it's given the franchise a new lease of life which will serve them well in the future. Probably helped by a little chart from Call of Duty this year. True, it's probably played a part. I doubt EA will mind that though. Yeah. No, no. And then on the on the flip side, we're looking at a brand new game, and then we're also seeing that Apex Legends has seen uh double digit growth year over year in terms of net book ins. The good with the bad, the the bad side, I guess, for EA is that net income was down nearly 21% over the last year, but in the latest quarter, it was up 81.5%, which is a real tail of two halves. And so, very quickly, if we just look at the data, we'll look first at the three months ending on March 31st. So net revenue 2.1 billion, that's up 12%, net income uh 461 million. As we've just said, that's up 81.5%, which is huge, a huge number, especially for EA. And then net bookings in the last three months up 3.6% to 1.86 billion. If we then contrast this with the last year, that those kind of numbers settle down a bit. So we're seeing net revenue up 1%, 7.5 billion, net income, uh, that's down 21%, uh, 887 million, still a lot of money, but quite a noticeable uh drop. And then net bookings up 9% to 8.03 billion. So I guess we've got a to me, as someone who's not a financial expert, this kind of looks like EA's not had an amazing year, but they've had, and I feel like I'm just stating the obvious, but they've clearly had a phenomenal last quarter, which has kind of saved what might have otherwise been uh a weaker year.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And I always forget that, of course, they're probably forecasting growth anyway, because I'm looking at this and very quick, top of my head maths, like assuming that they retain remained on target for that final quarter, they probably have just made net income, failed on revenue, and likely been down on booking as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think especially looking at that net revenue percentage up one percent, again, this it's still 7.53 million, that's a lot of money, but we know how these companies work, we know what the shareholders want, and I think that one percent across the year for revenue isn't great. And I mean the the the net income, again, even worse, down 20%. I doubt anyone at EA is is happy with that. So it does kind of feel like we're putting a there's there's a positive spin being put on a few areas, but overall things aren't looking bad, but they're not maybe where they'd want to be.

SPEAKER_01

I reckon coming into Q4, Q1, real world, they were probably very, very nervous because they were quite a long way off targets. Or or just Scraping to targets uh in terms of income. Which is fascinating, but you know, more power to them. I don't know what in the last in that last period drove Apex to the point it was at, but obviously Battlefields performed incredibly well and only continued to do so if it's continuing all that kind of interest. And I obviously it's being driven in terms of change from that, but I'm sure the workhorses of Madden and what was FIFA, oh I don't know if it if it's an ad what was Madden now, actually. I don't pay any attention to the American football side of things. But obviously they're the workhorse that kick that keeps that baseline going on top of that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think and elsewhere not necessarily uh as big as the Apex and Battlefield news, but we were seeing um netbookings for what they classify as the global football games. So EA Sports FC, FC Online and FC Mobile, small single-digit um rises in in growth for the financial year 26. I think to me, what all of this highlights is that evergreen games for having a catalogue of evergreen games in EA's position is a massive help. Obviously, Battlefield 6, I think, is the headline here. And and as you've said, Alex, it was I think what EA have done really well is recognize that there's a lot of Call of Duty fans and players and wider gamers who like to play first-person shooters that are very dissatisfied with where that franchise has gone. And the the tremendous success of Battlefield 6, as much as I think it's a good game, I've played quite a lot of it. I think a lot of that success, and I think what's driven this record performance is the fact that there was a real I think a real buzz around the launch. I think a lot of people looked and said this might be our best chance to excuse my language, but stick the middle finger up at Activision and and say, if you're not making what we want, we've got other options. Um so that's less EA haven't necessarily had to do anything in that case, but I think they've capitalized on it.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah. I mean, obviously they made a fantastic game. I I don't think people would have left one for the other were it not. Certainly that was proven by what was it, 2042. They proved they're they're not gonna go anywhere for just for no reason. But yeah, uh I'm sure that will have the disenfranchisement of the card players will no doubt have helped them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. Um of no, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I feel like I tend to be. Despite these record performances, EA still conducted quite significant layoffs at Battlefield Studios early this year in March. So I think we're kind of seeing the juxtaposition there between the the performance being strong on one side, but the there's still this kind of growth at all costs, regardless of what it entails mentality. But again, we're not we're not on the inside of A. I I think that it's probably a case that a lot of those layoffs were people that sadly were not needed to continue to support the game. They helped develop it, and inevitably the game comes out and EA recognize that they can save money, so they go and do it. I don't think there's much more to it than that. They're a business at the end of the day, they're not going to hold on to people if they don't need them. Unless they're diving straight into the next battlefield.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, you know, you don't you don't need to keep some of that talent around, sadly. But uh this will look fantastic on their resume, and I hope they got good redundancy.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, you hope so. Uh but yeah, I think I think we have to mention that because that is some of the background to this. And I think one final point, of course, we mentioned at the start of the episode the in the incoming, the upcoming acquisition by the uh Saudi Public Investment Fund. The the financial data that got released is pointing to this happening at the start of the next financial year. Um, and and that will be an acquisition of 93% of the of EA. Um, I I imagine this kind of news has been good for the the PIF to see that things are looking nice. They've had, you know, Battlefield's doing really well. I think potentially for the PIF, the apex data is more important because I imagine they can look at that and think, okay, we don't need to worry about making a new uh live service game to fill that particular void. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

They've got that, and obviously also the the all the sports games, which you know that they have huge, huge affection for. They have a lot of esports champions based out of based in FIFA, I think. So yeah, it all looks very healthy for that acquisition. I'm sure it sure it works well for them.

SPEAKER_00

Trying to think if I had£55 billion, I'm not sure if I'd uh use it this way. But um I I respect the I respect the decision. Um I know it's the I can't I can't remember if the comment you made on this was in this version that will make the final cut or not, but the point you made around EA is a really good example of one of the companies that has no regard for exclusives, so they kind of just play across the whole field, except they they seemingly love to avoid Nintendo hardware, but everywhere else they're they're kind of here you go, have it, we're gonna make loads of money. We're we're very good. I think from a business perspective, EA is probably one of the best examples of how to successfully monetize your games. You know, we do continue to see Ultimate Team making loads of money. Apex Legends is a free game, and if it's making so much, then that's through the the they're really doing a good job at monetizing on that front as well. So I imagine that these results that we're seeing at the moment are fairly sustainable because none of none of the areas where I think this income's coming in from are in immediate trouble. No. No, I think they're going to be fined. Yes, breaking news. We think EA might be okay. Um, I think I think on that note, we'll uh I think a bit of a a shorter one compared to our first story, but good to I always like to have a little bit of financial talk. I know we're not necessarily experts, but I think it's always it's it's always good to have the conversation around some of the the bigger presents. And I I imagine next week we'll probably speak about Nintendo's because I think Nintendo released their latest uh financials this week, and that'll be very interesting. But we'll save that for next week. What we'll do now is we'll we'll just break away for a moment, and then when we come back, we're going to be taking a look at this news around Xbox and Copilot.

SPEAKER_01

I'm starting to take over. I'm gonna take wrestle control of this off of you, Tom, as we enter our final story. Because, you know, I think we've touched on it already. So I just thought, you know, it's something that we we kind of work in up to, and now here we are as Microsoft starts to wind down some features that we've previously talked about, previously touted, previously expressed skepticism about. And uh looks like Ashasharma might be agreeing with us.

SPEAKER_00

Not saying that we're it's not what we Yeah, it's not what we expected, though, is it? I think when we So to give the quick summary. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Please take it back from me because I hit that with far too much energy and I could not maintain it.

SPEAKER_00

I think that was really good. For the context, Ashasharma's done a lot of things since she's taken over at Xbox. You know, we we've spoken about it before, but we're seeing conversations around exclusivity again. We're we're seeing conversations around Game Pass. We've already had Game Pass price reductions. We've already been made aware of the fact that Game Pass might not look the way it does now. The way in a year it might look entirely different. Something else that we're now seeing is that Co-Pilot come into consoles, which was previously announced to be happening in March. Sharma's turned around and said, no, that's not happening. It's not, we're gonna wind it down on mobile as well. Xbox is separating itself, at least on the consumer and public-facing side of things, away from the AI-focused situation that we're seeing more widely at Microsoft. Um, so instead of Copilot would essentially, you know, Alex, say if if Alex is playing Resident Evil and he gets stuck, but he would because he's amazing at Resident Evil.

SPEAKER_01

Let's not be silly.

SPEAKER_00

But if he got stuck, co-pilot would essentially act as an assistant and be like, oh hey, this is what you need to do.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But Xbox are kind of saying, okay, we don't we don't want to give players that. I think player feedback to the idea of it hasn't been amazing. So Xbox is saying, hey, look, we we still need to embrace AI technology, but it's actually going to go into more back-end areas. So things like upscaling, which is a big one with PSSR on the PlayStation 5 Pro, and other tools aimed at helping developers, to me, makes sense. I think this is the right move. I think it's the right move from a public relations perspective as well. I think this is another very easy win for Xbox to say, even if they're not listening, but to say, hey, we're listening. We understand that people don't really vibe with this. We still want to use AI, but we're going to use it in ways that actually are going to make games better. We're not going to force these features onto you if you don't want to access them. I think, again, I don't, I'm not great with the technical side of things, but Leaks for Project Helix, which is Xbox's new next generation hardware, mentions an MPU, which is a neural processing unit, which I understand to be an a very AI-related technology thing. And I think if this isn't being used for co-pilot, it definitely suggests to me that we're going to see something similar to what Sony has been doing, which is using AI to upscale, to drive up resolution, to increase frame rates, all I imagine, in an effort to try and have that technical superiority over the PlayStation 6.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I I think it likely does sit in that space now, because you know, it's a lot of what we're seeing, I've forgotten the name of it already, from NVIDIA, whatever that tech was that caused all the uproar. The DLSS5, thank you. The DLSS5, yes, I think, you know, poorly rolled out, but I think what it's trying to do and trying to achieve in terms of bringing down some of the overheads, particularly in games that are looking at being more realistic, or that, you know, you if you can train a neural processing unit, which I'm sure they've lifted straight from the Terminator as a term. Pretty sure they had neural processing units. I hope so. I hope so. I think they say, you know, that I think that's going to be where it sits. And I'm not sure, you know, the copilot thing was always going to be tricky because I think unless it's training, unless the idea is that it trains off watching people play, I assume it was pulling everything from online FAQs and things. And that's something that you're going to, unlike a lot of content, you're going to find yourself uh mining that really quickly. Because if people start using Copilot rather than making their own guides, or if those guides stop being visited, you're going to run out of that crowdsourced information incredibly quickly for things. And I think maybe that would we talk about the kind of aerobus or the lack of aroborous aroborous in terms of where information's generated in the the pipeline of AI stories and geoinformation. But I think online guides would be a very quick one to vanish if people were relying on Copilot to perform that. And I I think that would just yeah, eat its own tail in a bad way, incredibly quickly.

SPEAKER_00

I mean it's there nothing in in this news is saying that it's going to disappear on PC. But I think that there's such a big step between bringing it in not internally, but bringing it into the hardware as like a hardwired feature, as opposed to just having it available generally on PC for anything. But yeah, to me, I I I think this is just that again, it's such an easy win, I think, for for Microsoft for Xbox. I think I know when we did our little bumper episode all about Xbox, and one of the things we spoke about was as someone who's coming from a very tech, very AI background, what is Sharma's relationship with AI going to look like within Xbox? And I think it was very easy, and I know we did it to an extent, but it it's very easy to look at the to look at the facts, to look at the history and think, okay, if she's very heavily invested in this anyway, are we going to have a situation where it's we're just pumping everything in? Whereas actually what we're seeing, and one of the first things she said was, we're not going to fill the platform with soulless AI slop, I believe was the exact terminology that she did use. I w I will not don't want to misquote, but I believe that's exactly what she said. And I think this is an example of that. I think it as someone who has a PS5 Pro, PSSR is fantastic. I I'm amazed by how good that technology is. And I think if Xbox tries to do something similar, it will be a real advantage for them. And I think that's the intelligent use of AI that some people might not like any of it. But to me, it's a really good example of doing it right and doing it in a way that serves players, especially Digital Foundry. It really serves them because they love to go and show the uh the the the the jagged edges on stuff disappear once the PSSR goes on. Um but yeah, I I was surprised by this because I, you know, I I really thought that it was something that across the board Microsoft would be like, well, we're gonna do it anyway, and we're bringing someone in who's very experienced with AI, so I just didn't see a reversal like this happening. So quickly.

SPEAKER_01

But they're on a they're on a very strong, I don't want to say PR necessarily, but certainly a hearts and minds push between the reducing the price and now this, like but they're basically hitting all of the online commentator negativity points and answering that call. Um, which in this case I think people had moved on from Copilot, honestly. I'm I'm sure it would have come up again when news came out, but they could have quietly implemented it and kept going. So I think in in it it's an interesting choice. I I think the the lowering of Xbox Live was based far more on a market reality of actually we get back Call of Duty, we we we make back the money for that. It all makes sense to to do this, like it's uh a balancing act of where the money is. Uh whereas in this case it really is just a maybe they're not seeing the profitability in it, maybe they're not seeing the business case, and that's where it's coming from, but it does feel a lot more like no, you just don't it didn't resonate with players, so we're not doing it.

SPEAKER_00

It's a it's very consumer friendly, isn't it? To me. And and whether they're doing it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, this is the outcome which I think I don't I've got no, you know, I've I don't have any um I can't think of the word now, I don't have any position in this fight. It it's kind of irrelevant to me because I'm not going to play on the hardware. But I think if players on Xbox were so against this, it doesn't matter why it's happening. The fact that it is is good. I think the point that you made as well about guides and we don't want to gut the journalistic ability to people figure things out.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Even a fancy source. But here's a question: if were co-pilot just generating information from the internet to answer questions, if you asked it a question about Dark Souls or Souls or Elden Ring or Sekiro, would it just say get good?

SPEAKER_00

Would that be copilot's response to people if it was Well, on that exact note, I'm wondering how easy it would be to essentially kind of, I think, like over the responses?

unknown

Oh.

SPEAKER_00

Because let's be honest, I think I think about 95% of the AI summary things I see on anything, it's using Reddit. So how easy would it be to kind of force co-pilot into giving people really bad advice just because you can bombard it? Feels a bit similar to I I've seen people do it in the past on like the Star Wars subreddit where they'll they'll they'll vote certain posts so that when you Google something, the first thing that shows up is an image of like a certain character. And now I'm I am picturing this kind of thing where someone's stuck in Elden Ring and it's like, oh co-pilot, what do I do? And copilot's just like, get better at the game. Yeah. You kind of suck, man.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even think you'd have to be better at it. I don't think you'd have to uh do anything to make it that happen. I'm pretty sure that's just the online sentiment around it.

SPEAKER_00

It will it will just send you that video. There's that guy who's like beaten every boss using the guitar hero guitar or those kind of things. Well, this person was able to do it with a guitar peripheral. Why can you not do it with a controller? Thanks, co-pilot. I'm getting cyberbullied by an AI assistant. Um that's all just speculation. Um another, I think to summarize, another another big move from Xbox, another positive decision, I'd say, if we're looking at what the consumer reaction was initially. And yeah, I think you made the point, Alex. Xbox at the moment are on a real have got a real bit of momentum. They seem to be making lots of correct decisions. They seem to really be trying to win back the hearts and minds. I don't think it's as easy as you know, you can't just repair the reputation of Xbox in a few months, but it's definitely the right few steps. And I think if we're looking new consoles in a few years' time, a lot of this can really snowball and might put Xbox in a much better position by 2028 or whenever this new hardware will arrive. And so I think on that note, we'll we'll break away again for the last time, and then when we come back, we will rapidly run through. We've got three stories to run through today. Three quick stories, and we'll try and get through them as as quickly as possible. Might even do a bit of parkour to get through one of them. Yeah, yeah, I reckon. Welcome to this week's rapid rundown. We've got three stories to run through today. We originally had two, but Alex did demand that another one get added at the end. Yeah. So uh you can look for one that's making me laugh. No, I don't know which one's making you laugh. The first of these is the one I think's the funniest, which is that Alex, if I had to ask you which video game IP makes sense to be adapted into a theatre production, how high on that list would Assassin's Creed place? It wouldn't be at the bottom. It wouldn't be at the bottom, it wouldn't be at the top. What if I told you that a former Cirque du Soleil director?

SPEAKER_01

I actually know my answer. Sorry, I'm gonna Resident Evil, because there is an in-canon play from Resident Evil that you can only that you can vaguely find online to keep up with the story, but it's only in Japanese.

SPEAKER_00

There we go. So that's that's what happens. Alex has got his Resident Evil mention in. Well, maybe that's what they'll do next. But yeah, we've got two hours of parkour is what is being pushed here. Very few details about what this will look like. Mirror's Edge for the Mirror's Edge for theatre production. Yeah, potentially. I'm wondering what theatres they'll be doing this in, because how can you do are they going to be like scaling around the room? But I'm thinking for anyone who's not, I mean, not that old theatres are just a thing in the UK, but I'm thinking of like West End theatres with these golden decorations and this grand, prestigious look. And then I'm picturing someone just dressed as Ezio flinging themselves around the room and swinging from ropes. And I'm I'm into it. I kind of want to be there. I like this.

SPEAKER_01

I'm actually worried I derailed this so hard that you never actually said Assassin's Creed, but yes, this is Assassin's Creed. Oh yeah, maybe I can't remember if we did.

SPEAKER_00

It is Assassin's Creed. I don't know if we did.

SPEAKER_02

That was the answer to the question. Assassin's Creed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, you here we Ubisoft have partnered with a former Cirque Doo Soleil and Olympic ceremony director to create Herodist Echoes of the Past, a two hour stage production defined by acrobatics, urban parkour, choreographed combat, and physical force. Within large-scale immersive visual environments.

SPEAKER_01

I'm excited to see what this looks like. Because obviously, you know, the kind of traditional theatre is like changing sets quickly, doing all, you know, impressive things like that. But the world of Assassin's Creed is not only quite varied in what you could be jumping between and those different eras, but I'm kind of there going, like, is this going to have digital projection stuff? Is it all going to be physical set? How safe is that to put up and down really quickly if it's going to be used to jump over and leap between? Or is it going to be a consistent well, that's the thing. Is it going to be a consistent set that's always there that's having things projected onto it to create the environments they're running through? Because that seems safer, because at least everything then is then locked in place. But one of the things I love doing the theatre is I love doing it. One of the things I love doing at the theatre, that's perhaps overselling it. But in between scenes when they're they're changing the sets and everything, and if you obviously it's all black and everybody running around is wearing those. I was going to call it a ghillie suit. That's not what it called, but those kind of all black jumpsuits where they get to run out. Yeah, the um yeah, not a ghillie suit. Morph suits. Morph suits are what their nickname, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Maybe they should wear a gilly suit.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, but if you don't make up if if you look up the fun fact, the rods and cones in your eyes, the rods see black and white better, and they're not in the centre of your eye, though you have better, you have better black and white vision, better dark night vision at the corner of your eye. So if you look up, you can see them running around and changing the sets on stage, which I really enjoy doing when I'm at the theatre, because I think what they manage to do in really short space of time is often a technical feat, especially at bigger productions. And I would be fascinated to see what they're doing if these are full set changes in between.

SPEAKER_00

We'll have to wait and see. We don't we really don't know much about this. Um I think the only other thing I'd mention is the behaviour interactive of Dead by Daylight fame are a co-producer on this. So Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, anyway, we're gonna leave that and we're gonna move to maybe this is a story that you are laughing at. Although it's not it's not funny. It was what it was what you said about it. So build Build a Rocket Boy, infamous developers of MindSeye, um led by GTA alumni I've gone blank now. Benzies. Uh I've forgotten his Benzies, yeah. They there's been another series of layoffs at Build a Rocket Boy around 170 people, so there's only 80 employees left. What's what I find is so bizarre is that there was layoffs in March as well, and the layoffs in March, there was this conversation around espionage and corporate sabotage, and then Mine's Eye, a DLC expansion released for the game, which was calling out YouTubers and and and was pushing these accusations of of sabotage. And you know, as as you said, Alex, it's not this news isn't funny, it's sad, it's awful. But this is this is a I feel like this is going to be a brilliant case study in a few years' time of just how badly something can go in in games development because this has gone. I've got my edge issues behind me. I remember reading a few years ago, before even Mind's Eye became the focus, there was this concept called everywhere, I believe. And Mind's Eye was supposed to be an experienced within everywhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Not everywhere, I believe. Sounded like a title at one point.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that but that but it was this UGC-esque platform that Mind's Eye came out of, and it's gone from these grand, grand ambitions to it, it just kind of feels like even with those 80 people that that are left now, it's hard to see what the future of the studio looks like, let alone the game, because I can't imagine they've got much goodwill to work with now, much money. And I don't see how this possibly ends in anything but the the studio going under. And it was such a big production even a few years ago, and it's really just dissipated into being nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, it's it's a really fascinating, like incredible talent up and down the board that clearly starting a new studio is never easy. You know, I think obviously Benzies who whose first name I cannot find, and I should remember it. It's just one of those things where we're both having a mentor block. Yeah. He's not actually mentioned in this reporting, so I'm not sure if he's had anything to do with these decisions at all. Leslie's I'm not sure what if he's had anything to do with this decision. But you know, you've got all this incredible talent, people that are famed for making some of the best games in the world. And it just hasn't it it wasn't good. It didn't it didn't seem to be good. And you know, was that because things were hurried, because things didn't come together, were they reworking stuff? Was the workflow that people being inserted into uh you know different to what they were used to and then struggling to keep up with it? Um it's wild to think that something that had this much backing, this much kind of buzz around it, ended up quite where it is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, on the topic of buzz, our last little story for this week, for the rundown, is that last night Miyamoto, I believe, tweeted via the Nintendo account. He was like, Hey, we're releasing a direct in a few minutes about Star Fox, so give it a watch. People went in with baited breath. They thought, what could this possibly be? It's a new Star Fox game, but with a big, big, big big asterisk, which is that seemingly Nintendo refuses to engage with Star Fox unless it's a remake of Star Fox 64. So we've got Star Fox coming to the the Switch 2 in June, but it is essentially a remaster, a reimagining, a remake of Star Fox 64. So if you haven't had chance to play Star Fox 64, Star Fox 3D, or Star Fox Zero, you're in luck. If you have played those games before, you might not be in luck. It looks good, but it does look like something we've seen a few times before. Very safe. I wonder if this is Nintendo kind of saying, hey, let's see if people are interested in Star Fox. And if they are, we've already got an engine for this game now, so we can make a new one, but we don't want to commit too much, is the vibe I get. Yeah. Alex, I think you said you've played you've you've played 64, I believe, in its have you played the original?

SPEAKER_01

I played 64 and uh Star Fox 64 DS, I think were the two that I played. And you know, they were fantastic games. I loved the the original was very much a product of its time. Like it was C D on a cart, obviously cost a fortune because it had to have its own special chip in there.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it was the what was what was the chip called?

SPEAKER_02

Is it do not recall.

SPEAKER_00

The SNES one was the first I can't think what that had it. The mode, what was it?

SPEAKER_01

It wasn't mode seven, wasn't it? Mode seven, or not mode seven. It was the scaling that they did so Bowser could kind of spin out the screen, all the sprites has got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. It was the SuperFX chip. There we go. The super effects chip they put in there. And they used it for that and stunt car, and I think that was it.

SPEAKER_00

To me, what's more interesting is that there's apparently quite a big multiplayer element in this one, which I like the idea of having, you know, I'm I was a sucker for like the air supremacy, um, I think that was the game mode, but within like the Star Wars Battlefront games, I've always been a big fan of aerial combat games. So I imagine again, this all just feels like a bit of a testing round for whether there's interest in the the IP, especially with the um the presence of Star Fox in the Mario Galaxy movie as well. So I guess if you like Star Fox and you want a new game, then you're probably gonna have to cross your fingers this one sells well. But it's it's cheaper than a lot of the other first party games as well. So the pricing seems quite good, quite competitive.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I feel like that there's a there's a lot going for this, and I think it's so far removed from even the last versions, but it it does feel like a little bit of a for fans of the franchise.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I imagine if you are like a diehard Star Fox fan, it's like, oh, again?

SPEAKER_01

I think the Wii U version was a little different. I don't think it was just an N64. I think it was just like taking elements, but obviously, but with that in mind, the last the last real Star Fox version.

SPEAKER_00

I played the Wii U version and I I don't think I've ever experienced a worse control scheme in my life. Detested the uh and I know and I'm sorry, Miyamoto, because I know that I remember Miyamoto did such an enthusiastic video about the fact that you could like aim using the game pad. I was like, no one wants again. I loved my Wii U so much, but everything was just like, how can we make it really annoying because we have to make people use the gamepad? Fan of the podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Miyamoto will be upset by this. I'm sorry. No, but but that makes really the last game that we were like that that did Star Fox from scratch would have been Star Fox Adventures on the GameCube, is that right? That's wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which itself that wasn't even it's not even normal Star Fox.

SPEAKER_01

No, it wasn't Star Fox. It was it was uh it was a it was a rare game. They were like, we've made this.

SPEAKER_00

It was good though. I think I've played I think I played Adventures on an emulator. It's I've played 3D. I played the 3DS one. No, I I yeah, yeah, at the time I played some of it. But yeah, it was uh strange deviation. New Star Fox. I mean it seems you know, I I love Nintendo to bits, but there's a lot of if I look at the first year, year and a half of the Switch 2, very heavy reliance on old games. Especially with some of the other rumors that are pointing to certain holiday games this year. But you know, I have to I have to think Nintendo know what they're doing, but yeah, slightly disappointing to me that it's just another version of 64. Like you said, Alex, it was uh it's a product of its time. By no means a bad game, but I do wonder how well, even with this reimagined version of it, how well it will translate to new audiences. But then it's I mean what? Star oh no, that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01

When was Star When was the original Star Fox? We're not gonna know. Uh because it it's third it's 28 years since the last Star Fox 64 since it was made, right? 98.

SPEAKER_00

So I feel like it was 92.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so we're we're not aiming for an anniversary. We're not aiming for an anniversary. Okay, scrub that. I thought maybe we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00

They were just like, we need a Switch 2 game in June. What have we got? And they were like, well, we you know, we've got Star Fox. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I always pull out Star Fox? We'll pull out Slippy. I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing Slippy again. Yeah, no, absolutely. Slippy's my guy. So I don't care about the rest of them. I just want like photo realistic, Slippy.

SPEAKER_01

I I hope like because I think they gave them voices in the end, didn't they? The original was uh very simlish.

SPEAKER_00

I like those voices. I've always been a fan of the with like Zelda in the wild era games where they just have like the I'm very much a fan of that style of voice acting. Yeah. Because it makes it easier if you just want to skip through the dialogue.

SPEAKER_01

Not that I like to do that too often, but if you need to, it's just like it's a thing with we're so far off topic now, but the Animal Crossing ones are actually making they're actually saying the words, aren't they? But it's all very phonetic. Yeah, it's just very distorted. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, and then and then again you have like the flip side of that, which is Tomodachi Life, which because they do say actual words, people end up with the most um bizarre. But anyway, vastly off topic. Yes, yes. But but yeah, I think that will we'll we'll wrap there because we could go on and talk about endless endless amount of times. But thank you, Alex, for joining me. It's been a despite our technical issues, it's been a pleasure, as always. And as I always do say, and we always like to do it, if you want any more information on the stories we've discussed today, you can find all the links in the description below. You can also find down there the links to our daily download newsletter, which is five days a week. Very similar to what we do here, we like to talk about the biggest stories of the day, what's happening, what's not happening, what it can mean for the industry. We also have the LinkedIn weekly download, which is available via LinkedIn if you'd have to guess. Link for that will be in the description. Again, five days worth of stories, the biggest news of the week, right to you, so you make sure you stay informed. If you have enjoyed this edition of the weekly download podcast, be sure to like, share it with someone that you know, give us a follow or a subscribe. And I think that's it. I've I've done all the uh usual bits. So, Alex, do you have any any closing thoughts today?

SPEAKER_01

I don't. I'm just r ratcheting through my brain uh to see if I've got any Star Fox merch that I can hold up for the the the pack shot for the pack shot thumbnail for this one, but I don't.

SPEAKER_00

So sadly. I'm sad to say that my copy of the 3DS game was traded in at game a long time ago, I imagine, sadly. But anyway, thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time. See everyone next time.