322. How Airline Pilots Can Make the Most of Their Profit-Sharing Bonus

It’s bonus season for airline pilots, and while profit-sharing payouts can be substantial, they can also disappear just as quickly without a plan. In this episode of A Wiser Retirement® Podcast, we break down how pilot bonus programs work and more importantly, how to turn those bonuses into long-term wealth instead of short-term spending.

Related Podcast Episodes: 

Ep 317. Pilots Start Here

Ep 309. Financial Planning Tools for Pilots, By a Former Airline Pilot

Ep 303. Pilot’s Guide to Financial Turbulence: Planning for Medical Disabilities

Related Financial Education Videos:

New Delta Airlines Nonqualified Deferred Compensation (NQDC) Plan for Pilots

When Should Pilots File for Social Security?

Learn More:

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Transcript

Why Pilot Bonuses Exist

SPEAKER_03 0:00

It's bonus season for airline pilots, and we have a proven formula to make sure that the bonus doesn't just disappear. Stay tuned, learn.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to a wiser retirement podcast, where we cut through the noise and bring you real, honest conversations about investing, retirement, and building lasting wealth. No sales pitches, no gimmicks, just everything your financial advisor won't tell you.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

So I'm Casey Smith and I'm here with uh Grace Kennedy, our financial planning associate here at Wiser Global Headquarters. Good morning, Miss Grace.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Good morning.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

So today we're going to talk about uh airline pilots and how can they make the most of their upcoming bonuses.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Uh how do we get here? How do we get the bonuses? What's interesting is Southwest actually has the oldest bonus program. They've been doing it for 50 years. And they're not getting uh extra money into their paychecks. It actually rolls into a profit sharing plan. Okay. Um, so it benefits their future selves versus their current selves. Um, but I would say that the Delta plan uh is the standard as far as bonuses go. That's what uh United Americans are trying to duplicate and their their pilot contracts. Uh so basically pilots it's a pool that's created, a pool of money, but uh 10% of adjusted annual profits up to 2.5 billion, and then 20% of profits above 2.5 billion uh roll into this pool, which gets divided amongst the pilot group. And then there's a there's a formula for how each pilot gets that. I don't I don't we don't need to bore anybody with those details. Um but it's uh uh like in 2023, that's the last one I saw. Um Delta paid out about 1.4

Comparing Airline Profit Sharing Plans

SPEAKER_03 1:44

billion in profit sharing uh from from 2023 performance in 2024. So that's roughly 10.4% of eligible earnings, uh about five weeks worth of pay, uh is what it calculates to be. All this got started in contract uh 2023 uh with uh with the Delta pilots. And then from there, uh if if we look at uh United's United's is 10% pre-tax profit up to $2.55 billion, and then above that number, the $2.5 billion number is also 20%. Uh the pool then is based on again on each pilot's share of the total total earnings, and it depends on your uh position and and obviously what you what you made. Uh that also got ratified in 20 October of 2023, and then um Americans' formula was not as good. Uh they they didn't they have modified it um to match Delta's, but the problem with United and Americans is that there's just not as much profits.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Uh they aren't as successful uh in in that realm. Both those airlines carry a lot of additional unions beside just the pilots. Uh Delta has the pilots union and there's a dispatcher's union, uh, which is obviously pretty small. But the the other airlines have um a lot more unions, which uh, in my opinion, reduces that overall profitability. And also the United contract has other things in it that Delta doesn't have. Like they have a laundry allowance and they have uh allowance for meals, and uh if if if you have a meal that you don't like or didn't want, I think is how that works. United people can correct me on this, but you get like a credit. You can say, This is not what I ordered, you mess this up, then you can get it. So it's it's weird, yeah, like yeah, hoffa like union stuff.

unknown 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

That's gonna cut into your profitability, but they are still profitable. Uh United is. Uh American is is is getting there. They have a lot of debt that they're eliminating to make sure that um they can be in the right spot. Profit sharing, again, I think I mentioned earlier at Southwest is it's the oldest uh profit sharing plan out there uh in the airline space. Uh you know, Herb Keller was was a was a good thinker when it came to uh his vision for how to compensate people. They don't get paid by the hour, they get paid by the trip. You know, things are just very different in Southwest world. Uh, but they're the the all the again, all those profits uh roll into their uh profit sharing plan, anything over uh the the IRS limits, they now have a market-based cash balance plan that things can roll into. We could have a whole episode on that. American has just launched their market-based cash balance plan. United is regrouping, uh trying to get theirs uh IRS approved to mean more similar to Delta's. Uh what's interesting on Americans' market-based cash balance plan is they can move in and out of it. They can decide if they want to be in the program or out of the program. Uh Delta for new hire, you're just in. Right. And then there was a period uh a few years ago with Delta where you could opt in or opt out. So if you opt out, you can't get back in. Uh I assume that was for administrative cost, if I had to guess. Probably. But um Americans, you can um move in or out every three years or something.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Yeah, every three years.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

That's right. Uh you read all my emails.

unknown 4:57

I do.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Um so which which airline has the best bonus plan? Um, I mean, you'd have to say Delta does because they they have the formula that everyone's matching, but they also have the profits to um make make some serious bonus uh bonus pay. Uh they'd pay theirs on Valentine's Day, which uh isn't that sweet?

SPEAKER_04 5:16

I know that's so kind. Little love letter from the airlines. I know, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

You think you think Southwest would pay theirs on Valentine's Day because they're like the love airline, you know?

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Yeah. I know y'all should do that.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Uh so yeah, I would probably say the order is probably Delta United Southwest and then and then Americans, if if we were gonna give trophies for uh for who has who has the best profit sharing plan.

Market-Based Cash Balance Plans Explained

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Um so here's the thing, it's like anytime you get extra dollar in your pocket, it's easy for that dollar to disappear. There's a lot of shine shiny objects out there. Uh so that's why I wanted to talk to you, Grace, because you know, I don't want I don't want our pilots to to lose um their dollars.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Their bonus.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Yeah. So where where are we? Well, maybe we should start with what should we not be doing with our bonus money? There's probably a long laundry list, but if you want to summarize that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

We've created a short little summary list. So kind of the first one is the so-called lifestyle creep or lifestyle inflation, where you're just like expecting that bonus to come every year. And so you're basically, you know, you're expecting that to be guaranteed income. When it's not, it's called profit sharing for a reason. And so things like that, people make decisions on like, oh my gosh, if I get this, if I get this so-and-so payout or this bonus, um, I'm gonna send my daughter to the out of state college or something, like we can finally afford it or whatever. But that the next year to pay that tuition, that's not guaranteed.

SPEAKER_05 6:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

And so I think it's very important for pilots to remember just to live on your guaranteed income. And then the bonus and your profit sharing can be kind of be like the bread and butter on top. Um, and then you can do some really, really powerful things with it if you think of it like that, rather than just like expecting it every single year. Um, so I think that's number one, what can easily happen.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

I would say that uh picking up extra trips, you know, the red slips or green slips, uh, that that's another thing that we see a lot is you have to do that in order to maintain your lifestyle. Yeah. And I would say you need you probably need to get back down the guarantee. But remember too, if you're disabled, um, you have you're gonna be living after a couple of years, you're living on 50% of your income.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

So you know, I I don't know that we need to live on 50% of our income necessarily, but we definitely don't need to be having to pick up extra chips in order to maintain our lifestyle, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:33

That can be exactly what's your base and live off of that.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

For sure. And that's honestly for everyone, but especially pilots that have a variable income. Um, next, that kind of I feel like gets ignored is taxes when it comes onto the bonus plan or the bonus payout. Um, these can easily creep you up into a higher tax bracket. And I think sometimes they forget about that. They're like, oh my gosh, let me just get the cash and go buy this luxury car that I've always wanted. And then all of a sudden you get hit with a tax bill in April that you weren't expecting. So you can't ignore that. And, you know, it's it's very important to meet with, you know, either a tax advisor or your CPA, or, you know, we we talk through a lot of this kind of stuff here at Wiser. And so just planning that out. So, like, hey, I'm getting this so much um come February 14th. Um, if you're a Delta pilot and it could potentially creep me up into that higher tax bracket.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

I think that's especially applies to the higher paid captains.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

Because they're not gonna withdraw. Like, the standard is 25% uh Fed on a bonus. Uh, but if you're living in the 32 to 37% tax bracket, that's not gonna be enough. So you you would have a little bit of a surprise come coming over.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

April, right? Um, yeah, so one last thing that you should not do is nothing. Don't do nothing because you know, some people, I guess they can have it paid out to their paycheck, it gets into their checking account. Maybe they even move it to savings, or maybe it's just sitting and checking. And then, you know, that's one of two things. Either you have an excess of cash building up that has no purpose, or you end up spending it without even realizing it. I feel like that happens. Yeah. I feel like that happens all the time. It's just sitting there. And so you you're checking your bank account and you just keep swiping, all of a sudden your bonus is gone and it had no real purpose to it. So um, I think that's just as dangerous as the others. Um, and I I think that's

Ranking The Best Bonus Programs

SPEAKER_04 9:22

very easily done. Um, and that creeps up on you before you even realize it. And so you don't want excess cash. Like obviously, there's an important amount of cash that you should have. You know, the rule of thumb is six months of expenses. Um, and if you have excess on that, like put it to work. Like you want your money working for you, not against you. Absolutely. So I think that's definitely something to consider.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Okay. So those are very good things not to do. So we have a we have a um kind of a formula, a step, steps to follow.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

Success.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Of what to do with that extra dollar, or in this case, uh bonuses. So once you get stu uh started down that path.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

Yeah. So I think number one going down that line is paying off any revolving debt. Um, that's always, you know, if you walk into our door, that's going to be the first thing that we tell you. If you do have substantial debt, that can be cars, credit cards, boats, or planes. We wanted to throw that in there for y'all. Um, you know, if you if you have anything that high interest revolving, that's very important. If you're getting that lump sum, like go ahead and pay those things off or at least pay a substantial amount off. That that'll help you in so much in the future. Um, I think interest rates, especially nowadays, if you're getting a car or credit cards are outrageous, you know, those are um those creep, those are, you know, the interest rates on those creep up on you before you even realize it. Right. And so I think paying off those is definitely the first and foremost thing that you should do if you're getting something and you don't you don't have any other um need for the money, pay off your debt. I think that's very, very important. Um, number two would be to fund your emergency savings. You know, if you if you don't have substantial savings uh saved up in a high yield savings account just for emergencies, like I said earlier, the rule of thumb is six months. Go ahead and fund that emergency fund and get that, get that started so

Avoid These Bonus Mistakes

SPEAKER_04 11:13

that, you know, you don't have to acquire any more debt. You know, that's why most people acquire their debt is because they don't have emergency savings to have to put on the credit card. Um, and so I think that's definitely one of the most important things too, um, just going down the line is to make sure you that you do have a sufficient savings and a bonus is an amazing way to super fund that at the beginning. Um, so lastly, so these are in order. So keep that in mind. So we want to pay off debt. Um, any even if you paid off debt and you still had a little bit left over, save that. And then after that, if you still have um some left over or if you've already done the first two, look at big purchases coming up. So are you looking to buy a car? Are you looking for home improvements? Do you want to go on a vacation? These are things that you can pay in full with your bonus um if that's something that you're looking to do.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Build up excess cash for big purchases coming up.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you know you're gonna be buying a car in six months, you could probably save that up and then keep saving towards it. And so then you can you can pay it in full. Um, home improvements. I feel like we're always dealing with people that are improving their home right now. No one's gonna move right now. I mean, some people are, but most people are just trying to stay where they're at and improve their home.

SPEAKER_05 12:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

And so start saving up for that. Um, that's definitely a good, a good place to be.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Before we continue, do you want to make the most of your airline's 401k plan? We've created free 401k allocation guides for most major airlines to help you do just that. Download yours for free at pilotretirement.com. Now back to the episode.

SPEAKER_04 12:51

Tax deferral.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

So this is so we've gotten all the basic financial stuff done, it sounds like. Yeah. This is one, two, three.

SPEAKER_04 12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Okay. I want to I want to save this for my future. I want to reduce my tax liability on this thing. How do I do that?

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Right. So, number one, um, you can uh look into maxing out your HSA if that is something if you have your HSA eligible.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

If you have a high deductible plan, um, that's a great way to defer taxes. That's like one of the most tax-advantaged accounts out there. Um, so that's a great way. And there's obviously different limits to that.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

Yes, because you can put your money in, you get a tax deduction, and then you can invest it inside the HSA. And then when you pull it out, it's tax-free for medical expenses. Uh so that could be pay your um healthcare premiums in the future. Right. In retirement.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

Yeah, letting that build over time and then using that in retirement for sure. Um, number two, contributing pre-tax to your 401k. Um, you know, there's there's also you can also do Roth, but you know, number one, especially when we're talking about pilots, it would be pre-tax, most likely. Um, for households, you know, that have less than 150,000 in income.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

And try to max out your portion of the 401k plan.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

Right. So then you can use the most benefit of the market-based cash balance plan as well.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 14:09

Um, that's something we talk about a lot too. But yeah, you can also do Roth if you're if your household income's under 150. Um, but for most pilots, just a general rule of thumb is we're gonna most likely tell you to do pre-tax. So that's a great way to go ahead and and fund uh your side of the the max contribution of the 401k. Um anything left over, this is probably my favorite one. I think a brokerage account is so powerful, um, especially for pilots, you know, um, just anything that you have left over, you know, after trying to do the tax savings, doing uh investing into a brokerage account. And, you know, what we like to call that is the opportunity fund.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Yeah. Um opportunity money is very powerful, uh, especially as it builds.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

And if you if you have um uh a brokerage account and you keep adding money to it, uh you can do so many things in the future. In fact, I would say that if your retirement's on track with you maxing out your portion of the 401k and then the company puts in their 18%, but you're not trying to do the they call race the company where they try to put it into the after tax. Right. So you put you max out your your 235, your thirty thousand five hundred, and then you try to put as much as you can into

Order Of Operations For Windfalls

SPEAKER_03 15:20

the after tax until it fills up to 70,000. And then after that, ever the company, all the company may go to the market-based cash balance plan at Delta, or you could set that up at American uh United actually goes into your health savings account if you um a retirement health savings account, or you can come to your paycheck. You can manipulate that. But my point is that maybe you're on track for retirement just fine without having to do all that. And it I would argue it's better to put excess into a brokerage account and invest it so that when you get to retirement, you have this money you can live on. You all you have is a capital gains tax, uh, which is gonna be much lower. It should be around 15% when you retire, much lower than your income tax bracket. You can live off of that money, hopefully, uh, unless there's a military pension or or something, some other thing going on with a spouse, uh, you you should be able to live almost uh tax-free for those first few years of retirement. And then you can convert a massive amount of money from your IRA into your Roth.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Opportunity money doesn't always have to be used for retirement, it could also be used for opportunities. That's why we call it opportunity money. So you want to buy a second home, you want to buy that that plane you've always wanted to fly. Um, you want to maybe save up for a really big grand trip that we're taking the entire family. Uh this that's what typically opportunity money should be something that's reinvested into something else. It's not something that's spent, but uh it it could be anything, it's not counted toward retirement. Uh so so I I but the big thing is is just to get it out of your spending account and put it somewhere where you can hide it from yourself, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:51

For sure. I think that's that yeah, that's one of the most important things is putting it to work rather than just leaving it idle.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Yeah. These are great steps. I mean, it's very simple. Pay off your debt, uh, make sure your savings is okay. Do you have any big purchases coming up? All right, then save it for retirement. After that, then put it over into uh an opportunity account and let it and let it build for um uh for for for something down in in the future. So not that complicated. Uh there's a long list of things that uh that you can choose from. I think we've hit most of them uh on on that list. But uh obviously, if you're an existing client and you have questions, reach out. But I think anyone can use this formula for any bonus, no matter where they work. For sure. More than pilots get bonuses. Exactly. About a third of our client base here are all airline people. Yeah. That's why we do these special podcasts occasionally just for airline people. But the reality is that it applies to any bonus that you get uh this order of operation.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Okay, uh, let's take a break here. And this is something new we're doing where we ask three questions in three minutes, and I it's Grace's turn.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

Yay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

We're only gonna do it one time. So let's let's talk about this. Uh, it's our newest segment. Uh first question, it's the same question to everybody. Uh, what's one money mistake you you're weirdly glad that you made?

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Yeah, this is a tough one, but I think back in college, of course it's gonna be back in college, right? Um I, which I'm saying that like it was so long ago to make me sound better. Um, but I applied for an Ulta credit card. Um, Ulta is a beauty uh makeup store. I didn't know that. Yeah. Did you know that? No, I did not know that. Exactly. I saw your face and I was like, you know what? Let me read the room. Um so I do a lot of makeup, I love makeup.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

So um I applied for it. I got it back in college. I have no idea how I got it.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:51

Um and that was, I would never recommend a retail credit card to anyone. I would never tell anyone to go and get a retail credit card.

SPEAKER_05 18:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

I still don't believe in them today. Right. However, I am kind of glad that I made that mistake and got it because in my brain, I feel like that's helped me save some money, you know, getting it because it gets these rewards

Tax Deferral And Account Choices

SPEAKER_04 19:11

and stuff or with it. You know, if you if you use it so many times, you get like double the points or something, and then you get something for free. Or like you get one of your purchases.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

So you feel like it's worked out for you.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

I feel like it's kind of worked out for me, just for my situation.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Because you didn't carry a balance, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Exactly. I didn't leave it on there. Um, so yeah, that that's something I would never recommend to anyone, but I'm not mad that I made that.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Well, it's because if you don't pay it off, it's like 30 something percent of the things. It's like the highest of congressional interest you can charge somebody.

SPEAKER_04 19:38

And that's why most people that are, you know, applying for those and wanting those probably shouldn't have them because they can't afford it. I feel like a belt credit card had like all the moms and choke called back in like 2010. So don't do them. But that's fine. I was I'm okay with that mistake.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

If you could travel only to one place, where would you go and who would you take?

SPEAKER_04 19:58

So This one may sound so random, but I would love to go back to Bangkok, Thailand. And I would take Noah.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Okay. Noah's the uh future husband. Yes, he's April 2026.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Yes, good job.

unknown 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Yeah, I think that would be so fun.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

It's the same week as Sun and Fun, that's how I know.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Well, good. I'm glad. Glad at least you can remember my date. Not everyone knows the day of my wedding because they all know the day of Sun and Fun event.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

All right. Uh number three, what's something you believe strongly uh that you believe strongly 10 years ago that you don't believe anymore?

SPEAKER_04 20:43

Yeah, so ten years ago I was 14.

unknown 20:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

Um can't say Santa because that's weird. Um, and that's not true.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

I know you didn't believe in Santa. You're the third child, so the third child no, they ruined it for me.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

I know the third child uh loses Santa a lot faster than no, so ten years ago there was this big debate on the internet. There was this picture going around of a dress. Do you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_03 21:13

No, I have no idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

There is this picture of this dress, and everyone either thought it was black and blue or gold and white.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Oh yeah, I do remember that actually. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Yeah, that was ten years ago.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

And I okay, so first of all, the dress was black and blue.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

You may not know that because you are colorblind, but it was black and blue. But I strongly believed back then that people were really seeing white and gold. Where they weren't really seeing white and gold. I swear that it was just like a contrast thing. Yeah. The exposure was just higher. The retailer like confirmed. I was like really in this when I was 14, you know. I was very passionate about it. But I was the retailer had said that it was a black and blue dress. Like it's by the way, it's black and blue. Right. But I think people were seeing it in different lights, or they were taking the photo and editing it and ex doing the exposure more, and so it does look white and gold. But I always believed that people were really seeing it white and gold. I think it's still a huge debate, actually. I think people would still claim that they see white and gold.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

So what is it you don't believe anymore?

SPEAKER_04 22:21

I don't believe that people actually see white and gold.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Oh. On that dress.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

I think they were lying. Yes. For attention.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Oh, so don't believe everything's like.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

I mean you're in middle school and they're like, oh my gosh, yes, it's white and gold. I'm like, guys, it's black and blue.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Oh, black and blue.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

So I just I believe that it was a scientific thing where our eyes would see differently. And I just don't think that's true anymore.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

You think it was just uh um hoax? Internet ho internet hoax. There's a lot of internet hoax. I see a lot of fake news in my feed.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

But that one like took over the internet.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Yeah, I did. I did remember that.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

For a while.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

If I remember that, yeah. That's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

If you know the dress, then yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Yeah, I don't I don't remember the dress, but I remember the I remember the whole thing, right? It was it was like a fleeting moment for me. It was like just five seconds. It wasn't middle school, that was my life, okay?

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Debating people.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

That's funny. All right. Uh thank you, Grace. That's good. Um so let's uh let's wrap up here. Uh again, three takeaways. Uh manage your profit sharing well in 2026.

Brokerage As Opportunity Money

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Uh, don't treat it like a wealth tool. Treat it like a I'm sorry, do treat it like a wealth tool. Don't don't treat it like it's your salary. Um, and use it to get your uh financial house in order. Uh, I don't mean that in a negative way necessarily, but in a positive way. Uh, thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're interested in learning more about wiser wealth management or want to schedule a consultation meet with one of our fiduciary financial advisors, you can do so by going to wiserinvestor.com or you can click on the link in the episode notes. We'll see you guys again next week. This is fun. Thanks, Grace.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

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