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A Wiser Retirement®
357. Is Long-Term Care Part of Your Retirement Plan?
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Long-term care can shift from a distant concern to an immediate financial decision faster than many families expect. It can begin with a few hours of help at home and progress to assisted living, memory care, skilled nursing, or around-the-clock support. Each stage brings different costs, care needs, and family decisions.
In this episode of A Wiser Retirement® Podcast, Casey Smith and Grace Pavel break down what long-term care can actually look like and how families can prepare for it.
Related Podcast Episodes:
Ep 276. How to Make Sure You're Ready for Retirement
Ep 245. Strategies for Early Retirement and Long-Term Security
Related Financial Education Videos:
How to Plan for Long Term Care Without Breaking the Bank
Long-Term Care Insurance Explained
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The Retirement Risk Nobody Prices In
SPEAKER_01You could spend decades building a retirement plan, and one major care need can change that math fast. Whether it's help at home, memory care, or nursing facility, the cost can be significant and the decisions often fall on the family. So today we're going to ask the question most people don't think about early enough. Is long-term care actually part of your retirement plan?
SPEAKER_04Welcome to a Wiser Retirement Podcast, where we cut through the noise and bring you real, honest conversations about investing, retirement, and building lasting wealth. No sales pitches, no gimmicks. Just insights to help you stop guessing and start planning your financial future.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Wiser Retirement Podcast. I'm Casey Smith. Today I'm joined by Grace Pavel, a financial planning associate with us here at Wiser Wealth Management. Hi, Grace.
SPEAKER_05Hey.
SPEAKER_01Can't start my day out without Grace.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01Literally and figuratively.
SPEAKER_05In always.
SPEAKER_01So for clients who uh come in for review meetings, uh very often you'll see Grace and myself. Yes. And we have um decided to do a topic today on long-term care, but not with Randy, who sells the policy, but just let's just talk about long-term care in general.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, when I say long-term care, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?
SPEAKER_05Care for a long time. That's good. Cost. That's good. Cost. Expensive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, expensive. Um, I think most people think nursing home.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. They think automatic go to the worst possible thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Nursing home is like you're laying in the bed and you can't get out, or if you try to, you fall. And they think that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's not reality. Um my uh my grandfather passed away, my my very best friend on May 18th of this year. And I was very fortunate that I've been successful enough that I could provide for his in-home care. And I did it with uh it was an honor to take care of him. Right. It was a privilege. And I learned a lot about this process as because he did not want to go to a facility. He wanted in-home care. So we'll talk about uh we'll talk about that um here in a minute. But he uh he was 90 98 years old, 99.
SPEAKER_05I think he was yeah, no, it's 99 years old.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 99 years old. Um crazy. I almost made it to the to the triple digits.
SPEAKER_05100 mark.
SPEAKER_01All right, so um I want to break this down into we're kind of we're going rogue on our show notes again, and I have uh kind of this cheat sheet that I that I use sometimes um when I'm thinking about long-term care. So let's just kind of look at this at it at a glance. So
The Long-Term Care Spectrum Explained
SPEAKER_01when you in the long-term care umbrella, you have independent living. So that you think independent living, you think you're at a you're at a facility that has other options for you, but you're still coming in and driving out in and out with your own car, probably. Yes.
SPEAKER_05You're independent. Independent. That's exactly what it says. Yeah, you're just but you're living at a facility. Yes, at a facility, but doing your own thing.
SPEAKER_01You come and go freely. Yes. Um, then there's like home companion uh check-in care. That's people just coming in to help out a little bit here and there. Then there's part-time home personal care, there's full-time daycare home care, there's extended like 12-hour home care, and then there's like 24-hour home care. And my uh the different levels of care here, including you know assisted living, even a nursing, nursing home. Uh, it goes anywhere from like $3,000 a month to $25,000 a month in cost. So it's a very wide range.
SPEAKER_05Yes, depending on what you need.
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about aging in place because that's what my grandfather was doing.
Aging In Place In Real Life
SPEAKER_01Um, he was by himself uh up in the mountains. Uh he was driving himself for a while, and then it kind of came to the point where he couldn't have cars anymore. So he we had to sell his car. Uh that was a fight. Right. Uh funny story, my my mom was really more taking care of things at at this stage in his life. She was really more focused on he had had a mild stroke, and she so she uh took his cars away. Now in LJ, Georgia, everybody knows everybody for the most part. So there's a guy down at the uh body shop that knew my grandfather over the years. My mom called him and he agreed that we could hide the cars there. So she drove the cars down there and hid them. And eventually we were able to find the titles and get get the cars out because he should not be driving. He was yeah, he was caught going through LJ, not downtown proper, but the major intersection. Uh it's 575, which turns into a highway. I can't remember the name of it, but he threw the red light, he ran a red light, he's going 120 miles per hour in his conversion van. Because he had poor hearing, poor circulation. He had no sense of how fast he was going. So he gets pulled over. And my mom, they call my mom. They're like, Well, did you give him a ticket? And they're like, No, we didn't give him a ticket. We can't give Reverend Charles Sims a ticket.
SPEAKER_05Never.
SPEAKER_01So she's like, You should have given him a ticket. But they were like, You need to take his car away. So after she did, uh, he would introduce her as this is my daughter Mary. She's a car thief, which stole the car.
SPEAKER_05Valid. He was mad.
SPEAKER_01He was very upset. My mom didn't find that very endearing at all. That's hilarious, actually. So, so you're at that point. Um, in being a small town, uh, we got very fortunate. There was a lady, Denise, down at White Columns in LJ, a little restaurant, and she would drive him up uh a meal. Oh, that's Monday through Friday. Yeah, and then he had enough leftovers for the weekend.
SPEAKER_07That's sweet.
SPEAKER_01So Monday through Friday, she would she would drop off a meal. He left five dollars on the on the on the front chest on on top, and she would take the five dollars and leave a meal every morning or every around lunchtime, 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock. So, really in that case, um, he was self-sufficient. Uh, he just kind of yeah, he kind of stayed there. Uh, somehow he found a scooter and decided to drive the scooter to Walmart.
SPEAKER_05Oh, seriously, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He was driving on public roads with a scooter. You see people like this, and you're you're like, you're like, why is that guy driving his scooter down the side of the road? He's lost, he's lost his car.
SPEAKER_05An old guy, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Someone took his car, someone took his car, and now he still wants to go do his errand.
SPEAKER_05That is so funny. You have to have a license, I would imagine.
SPEAKER_01No, like completely illegal. That's that was funny. That was taken by the police as well.
SPEAKER_05Well, at least they took that, right?
SPEAKER_01It was real easy for them to take stuff because literally across the street from his house is East LJ City Hall.
SPEAKER_05Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_01It was they called him every time. They were neighbors, yes. So the um, so anyway, uh in his case, uh, there were there were people that would come and check on him, or if he needed something, he called someone in the community and he came and helped them. That's just that's just how it worked. But we would call that like a check-in companion, someone who is providing meals or transportation, uh, companionship, maybe some lighthouse keeping keeping. Back back then there was a lady in town that would come clean houses and she would come and clean his. Um turned out to be not not the not the best uh situation there, so we had to make some changes. But planning costs for this, you're staying home, doing you know, 10 to 20 hours, I would say you you have to budget anywhere twelve hundred to twenty hundred dollars a month, depending on what what's needed, right? Meals get expensive, especially when you're they're technically eat-out meals in this case, right? Yes. Now, as he as he um got a little older, he needed a little more care.
When Home Care Becomes Full-Time
SPEAKER_01And then in our case, um he was falling and he'd just be wearing a same bloody shirt for multiple days.
SPEAKER_05Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, and that's like, okay, well, something needs to change. Um, the house started decaying uh because he wasn't caring for the home, keeping up with it. So we ended up having to do some major renovations to the home to keep it literally keep it standing. And once we did all that, uh he ended up not feeling well, ends up in the hospital, comes home in the hospital, like he has to go to rehab. Uh, he's refusing to go to rehab. Um, and he now needs someone to stay with him on a consistent basis. Yeah. And so in our case, uh, we found uh a lady that uh was not a nurse, but was willing to go up there and live there five days a week. And then we used a company called Visiting Angels, which sourced uh a great fit for him. So we had one female caregiver five days, a male caregiver two days, and which was great for me because the male caregiver was really good at uh doing some home handy stuff and fixing things and keeping the cameras charged and all that. And then um the other caregiver was was really good at the um like the meal front and handling shopping and all that stuff. So it was it worked out really well. Um, none of those were nurses, yeah. And so we we were paying for them to be there basically almost 24-7. There was there was uh at night time, um, like Dale, the male companion, he would leave at 8 p.m. and come back at 8 a.m. the next morning.
SPEAKER_06Wow.
SPEAKER_01And up until the late 90s, that was his late 90s. Um, it was fine. Yeah. Because he was sleeping it most of the time anyway. Yeah. Uh, didn't really need anything in the middle of the night. And now some people with Alzheimer's adventure, they'll start wondering, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and they need to have eyes on them during the night. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's correct. Yeah. Uh, I think the whole time that Gina was there uh for the five days, I think there was only maybe one disruption in the evening. So for us, uh, we didn't need around the clock care. But if you're looking for like most waking hours, you need to budget anywhere from $9,500 to $12,000 a month for that kind of care. If you want someone there, but not just in the middle of the night.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01It gets very expensive. Yeah, super expensive. I kept all my receipts. Yeah. I kept them, I kept dropping them into a into a folder. If you're using someone like we found a person who we paid, we we paid um through uh W-2, just like a regular household employee. Uh, but when you go through an agency, it gets very expensive. You're looking at about $30, $35 an hour for if they come through an agency. If you if you find them um outside the agency, then you can get obviously a lot cheaper than that because agency is keeping a a percentage. I don't know exactly what percentage, but it seems to be a high one.
SPEAKER_05I would imagine, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Which is also what you're comfortable with. Like if we're if we're sitting here talking about right now, okay. If we're talking to a client, that's it's kind of turned into more like maybe you're trying to care for your parents or grandparents. Um, if that's like the conversation that's being had, it's like, what are you comfortable with? Like, you know, they may not live in a small town where they their parents or grandparents may not have the best of neighbors. And so your option actually may be having to go with a more expensive agency. So and if your parents don't have, like you were saying, your grandfather didn't have his own resources to be able to provide for himself. What if you as the client are kind of trying to worry about yourself in the future? Like, what are options to still care for your parents or grandparents? Like I know sometimes there's a reverse mortgage thrown in the air. Like, what is that gonna look like? Can that be used to help maybe me in the future? Or if we're talking about right here and right now, my parents are my grandparents, so that can also be an option if you can't just outright fund it.
SPEAKER_01I usually advise I did I didn't do what I would advise clients to do.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I tell clients say, Don't sacrifice your future.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Because you got to take care of your parents who didn't or were not able to carry to protect their own. The other option for him was we would have sold the house, we would have taken that money, we would have moved him into a long-term care, like assisted living facility, which I'll get into those in a minute. But in a assisted living facility, and then once he ran out of money, he would just bid on state care at that point.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Medicaid.
SPEAKER_01For me personally, he said, I don't want to leave my house. And this is a man that would pick me up. And uh since I was eight years old, we were golfing buddies, and he came and visited me in college and we would play around a golf and he'd take me the longhorns.
SPEAKER_05Yep. What are grandads like to do?
SPEAKER_01And and uh any any major part of my life, he was always there and present. Um and and and um no matter what, no matter what was going on. Um even as a teenager, you know, acting out or whatever, just so patient and loving and caring. And yeah, to me, this is what's something that I needed to do.
SPEAKER_05You wanted to respect his wishes.
SPEAKER_01And and then in return, I knew that how I what I would do with my family, I said, Hey, I'll outlay all this, but at some point you know, he passes away, we sell the house and I'll recoup myself. I went well beyond what the house is worth. Right. But and then in the end, it was the I'm at peace because I I did what I needed to do. If if you have a loved one who has resources, this is a whole lot easier. Yes, right, and if they're also too if they're not as um stubborn, I'll just say that. And they're willing to go other places. I think he should have gone been more open to going to assist a living. He was a pastor, that was his life calling, and he would have been so positive to other people around him. Yeah, but just wanted to be at home.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, so which a lot of people do. They don't. I mean, I've heard going through like the planning process, this is obviously a conversation. People are really scared of scared of long-term care, whether it's for themselves or maybe having to provide for a parent.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I've heard I've heard both sides, they're like, put me in a facility immediately. I don't want someone living in my home. Yes, that's right. That kind of freaks me out. And I'm like, oh, that's valid, actually. I've never thought about that. And but then there's others that I want to stay in my home. I don't want to spend my last years in a facility surrounded by other people that I don't know or something like that. So it really depends on the person and what their wishes are and how you want to go about planning for it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, and I'm glad grateful that we never got to the point where he needed skilled nursing care at home. Because one thing I'll say is visiting angels people, they're not nurses. They are, they'll do shopping, they'll do lighthousework, they'll do some light meals, but they're they're companions.
SPEAKER_06Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're just there like eyes on the prize.
unknownOkay. Right.
SPEAKER_01Eyes on your loved ones to make sure that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_05Which is a very different cost than if you actually needed.
SPEAKER_01If you need skilled nursing, you're looking at probably something around $90 an hour.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You shouldn't need that person all the time.
SPEAKER_0524-7.
SPEAKER_0124-7, but but yeah, if you're doing 24-hour care multiple shifts at that point, because you have to rotate people through their workday, um, you're probably looking something closer to $20,000 to $25,000 a month in home for that, which is which is very expensive. And most people don't have that kind of insurance. So you hopefully you have good social security. Even if you do have a pension, no one has a $25,000 a month long-term care policy, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So so it could take a lot of multiple layers of help or a lot of money, you know, if you have the assets um to do that. Like we didn't see Jimmy Carter at a at a at an assisted living facility, right? He had skilled nursing care. He was fine at home. Fine at home, right? Yeah. Uh, but we're all not Carters. Yes. So um, okay, so in-home care, uh, again, there's companion or homemaker care, which is non-medical support.
ADLs And What Care Really Means
SPEAKER_01That's that's what I talked to you guys about a second ago. There is personal care, and these are people that help with things such as uh the ADLs, which is a bathing, dressing, toileting, transferring continents, and eating. So when you when you can't do two of these things, that typically qualifies you for most long-term care policies or uh government assistance if you're in that scenario. Uh, but again, an a person who works for like visiting angels is not going to be able to do those things. They're not personal care. Um, then there's skilled home health, and those are nurses or therapists that treat such as wound care, injections, physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy. Um now, in his case, um, Medicare provides some of that. So Medicare would come to his house and help him bathe twice a week through their hospice program. You don't have to be, you don't have to have a terminal condition necessarily to be on hospice.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, they would come and help him do physical therapy or just really more check on him. Yeah. Um and uh those are things that typically get um scheduled through the doctor. So your primary care physician would help schedule those things, right? That's that's kind of in home. Let's
Independent Living And CCRC Options
SPEAKER_01now let's take a step back and we say long-term care. We just covered light help at home to heavy help at home. But let's say that you're not gonna stay home. Um, then this is what we call independent living. This still falls under the long-term care scenario. This is where you are driving yourself into your parking spot and you're carrying your groceries and you're walking up to your apartment in independent living. They're probably providing meals and activities. Uh, there's lots of people that are active. They have outings on a bus.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Uh yeah, right. It's like a little community.
SPEAKER_01It's a little community, right? There's a great one up at Barrie, uh Barrie College called the Spires. There's a wait list to get in. Uh, independent that you can pay as much as $500,000 to get in. You get 80% of that back if you if you leave. Then you're going to pay $6,000 a month and you're living in the Ritz-Carlton in the mountains.
SPEAKER_05There you go.
SPEAKER_01There's uh Canterbury, which is down in Atlanta, kind of the same concept. Uh, you're in this kind of the center hub of Atlanta, you're near the arts and all that stuff. Yeah. Very expensive to move in. You could also go down to like your your local Arbor Terrace, which is a very nice facility, much smaller. Um, you're not gonna have to pay any any check to get in, but you're just paying maybe $3,500 a month and uh the $4,000 a month, but you can come and go as as you please, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh there's other there's other places um around. Uh there's also what they call CCRCs, where like continuous care facilities where you start off independent living. That's what the spires are up at Barrie. Uh you start off independent living and then you move into uh maybe more of assisted living and then eventually nursing care.
SPEAKER_05As you need.
SPEAKER_01As you need. Okay. Yeah. And so the price changes based on what what you're needing.
SPEAKER_05What your care changing, which would probably be nice if you're if it is someone that would doesn't want to have to bounce around depending on like what's happening.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_05Um, they can just continue to stay there and get the care that they need as it increases.
SPEAKER_01So then this is where it gets
Assisted Living Levels And True Costs
SPEAKER_01more complicated. And I went through this journey with a client who's still living, doesn't have any family, uh, fortunately has a friend that she grew up or not grew up but lived next door to for many, many years that has now kind of stepped in and taken his point. But I had to be point for a couple of years. And this is assisted living. So she was in living independently. She was not thriving. Um, she suffered from other issues that made it difficult for her to be around other people. So we moved her to independent living. We said, you know, Miss Client, you're not thriving here, you're living by yourself. Um, you're not able to pay your bills, like the water's getting cut off, the electrical is getting cut off. It's just a bad situation. No kids, no cousins. Husband passed away many years ago, no living family, unless it's distant family. And when we found the distant family, they wanted nothing to do with it. Yeah. So we're like, oh no, what do we do here? So we moved her to independent living, and once she got there, she had her meals provided for her. She could go downstairs and eat, which she quickly decided she doesn't like. Nobody likes the meals anyway. That's provided. They all get all these facilities get their food from the same source. Oh. Airmark.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01Right. And Airmark comes in, they could prepare all these meals, they're all the same. It's it's it's all the same stuff. Uh so if you're not gonna like it, you're not gonna like it.
SPEAKER_05Somewhere else.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_05Got it. Good to know.
SPEAKER_01So independent living went well for about a year and then it didn't. Um, there was an injury, cast had to be worn. She's ripping the cast off because she doesn't like it anymore. Uh, it was it was it was kind of a bad situation where she needed a little more care.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's when we transitioned her to assisted living. Now there's four practical care levels of assisted living. So in assisted living, you might need help. You just want to have regular meals. If you if you're not eating, if you're not feeling well, someone's gonna come up to your room and check on you. That's like assisted living level one. So in that case, you're probably only getting medication reminders. Um, you're getting safety checks, maybe occasionally you need to be reminded to bathe or something, but you can do it on your own. Right. So that that's actually actually pretty economical. There, there, there are places that you can do assisted living level one for as little as $3,500 a month.
SPEAKER_05Really?
SPEAKER_01Uh the nicer places are maybe closer to $5,000.
SPEAKER_05Which is someone just checking on you, really. So if yeah, if you don't have family near or if you don't have family at all, that's really beneficial.
SPEAKER_01You're living in a pl in a room by yourself, an apartment. Some people have two bedrooms, some people have one bedroom, some people have a studio. Yeah. Um And you they have they serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They have activities that you're doing either in-house or bus trips.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh a lot of I would say assisting living level one, you probably don't have a car. Uh we had to take her car away after uh an accident.
SPEAKER_05Do the buses and stuff to transport you?
SPEAKER_01Yep. Yeah, that's nice. Like on Wednesdays, they go to Kroger. On Fridays, they go to Publix.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05Exciting.
SPEAKER_01On Saturdays, they go to, you know, some I'd love Dalkround Publix, honestly.
SPEAKER_05That'd be nice.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_05Get some things. I think that kind of helps, you know. Obviously, it's not like full-on assisted living, because I know we're going to get to all the different levels, but like my mom, for example, she's not the age where she needs any of this, but she's a single woman and she lives in South Georgia and I live in Atlanta. And so that's like something she is always like, what if one day no one's checking on me and y'all I just wind up dead and no one knows? Right. I mean, this is my mother talking, you know? And but this kind of helps with that fear. If that's if you're in a situation where you're like, none of my family's around, I live in the hometown, everyone left the hometown. What if someone doesn't check on me and something happens? This would help with that fear that you have.
SPEAKER_01So or sometimes it's easier for them to go into assisted living in your town. Yes. So they sell, they sell their house, which frees up the cash to be able to pay for these things. Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_05And then they're near and they still have the help if you're at work still or something. So yeah. Correct. Good option.
SPEAKER_01Level two is an assisted living is moderate support. So this is more routine daily hands-on assistance. So they need help with maybe one to three of those ADLs, such as bathing, dressing, mobility, and medications. Uh, maybe one of those two of those or three of those. Well, if it was if it was just medication, you'd be level one. So bathing, dressing, mobility, that all puts you into level two. And the price jumps up a bit. And the southeast, uh, the average cost is anywhere from $5,500 to $8,500 a month. I haven't seen too many places that are $8,500 here in Metro Atlanta. I would say we're in the $5,500 to $6,500 range in Metro Atlanta.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, for level two for sure.
SPEAKER_01For level two. Um, level three is severe. So this is continence care, transfers, um, escorts to meals, frequent monitoring, medication, deep medication, or really strict medication management. Uh, these type people sometimes um I saw diapers on the outside of their dorm rooms or their do I say dorm rooms outside of their rooms. You just dropped off Caitlin. So I just dropped Caitlin at school and the out dorms are mine. But yeah, their apartments there might have adult diapers sitting outside because they're about to go in and do a changing or something, right? Um, so it and then those people tend to move a little slower, yeah, older. Um need more help. They need they need more help. And in our range here is somewhere between 6,500 to 9,000 a month. I would say probably closer to 7,500 would make sense. Um, and then there's level four, which is help with all ADLs. So they need help bathing, dressing, toileting, feeding, transfer, uh, possibly two people at a time for or they need a lot of medical assistance. This is this is almost nursing home level, yeah, but not quite. So you're still in assisted living, you you still have all these other things, you're probably not as interacting with other residents as much, but it's but it's there and it's anywhere from $7,500 to $10,500 a month. I I would put it closer to the 12 number if you're truly at a level four at a nice facility.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah, I could see that because that is when it gets really expensive.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And you probably can you can probably communicate, you can probably carry on conversations, your your brain is fine, your body is not not cooperating as much. Yeah.
Free Pre-Retirement Checklist Break
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_03Before we jump back into the episode, do you know if you are ready to take off and launch into retirement? Get your pre-retirement checklist, a free guide from Wiser Wealth Management, from cash flow to social security. We've got your account down covered. Go to wiserinvestor.com slash guides to download your free guide today. Now let's get back to the episode.
Memory Care And The Long Timeline
SPEAKER_01So those are uh the four levels. Now, they don't call it level five, but it's kind of another whole nother thing, and that's memory care.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_01So memory care people, these are the ones that you have to be really careful of financially because they're usually in pretty good shape.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But they just physically, right?
SPEAKER_01Mentally, they have checked out.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They don't, they wander. Uh, these are the people you read about sadly read about in the paper that have wandered down the street and they died somehow. Uh here in Marietta, there was literally a lady at a facility, very nice facility. Yeah. Somehow she got out and she drowned in a creek bed.
SPEAKER_05Oh no.
SPEAKER_01And she was an Alzheimer's patient.
SPEAKER_05Really?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Wow, that is so sad.
SPEAKER_01So, so yeah, not a good, not a good situation.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, make sure you have a gate, maybe.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01No, there was it was a locked community. Uh they found her on camera and she kind of snuck out. Yeah. But she was trying to get out. Right. It wasn't.
SPEAKER_05She wanted to get out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05She physically could. So right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So these are these are um sit again, memory situations. They have um uh staff trained specifically for dementia care. Uh, if you've been to a memory care unit, some of them that again, the good ones are very it's very interesting. I saw one that had lock boxes and you can open up a box, and inside this lockbox were things from like the 60s or the 50s. Uh, there was music they could play on recorders from that era because there's a connection between music and um dementia at Alzheimer's and it brings back memories. Memories, yeah. So they could hold something from their childhood or something they used to play with. It really it helps calm them.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes you can have normal conversations for the people who are like really deep.
SPEAKER_05Like that triggered it, so then you can all of a sudden talk.
unknownCorrect.
SPEAKER_01Because the the brain is slowly decaying to the Alzheimer's to the point where um their eyesight starts failing them. I mean, eventually they just kind of forget how to chew and swallow, yeah, is what it comes down to. It's really sad. I've had one client who passed away that way.
SPEAKER_05Really?
SPEAKER_01Like for legs forgot how to walk.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_01Um, he was fine otherwise. In fact, they had him in um the uh oh, what do you call it? It's not burn, but it's one of those uh gym memberships. Everyone would do it was a craze for a while.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, he was in one of those classes almost every morning. He was the most fit 80-year-old.
SPEAKER_05You've ever seen his brain, but his brain stopped communicating. Wow.
SPEAKER_01His brain stopped communicating. Um so the again, these have wondering prevention, theoretically, uh, 24 hour supervision. Uh, they also eventually have to help with all the ADLs because of because of how memory care or Alzheimer's works.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, this this can get very expensive. This is kind of like the worst case scenario simply because you're probably gonna live a long time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Right?
SPEAKER_01Because your physics are they have Alzheimer's patients that have lived like this for like 12 years. Yeah, you're healthy, it's just your brain is not so like the average stay in a nursing home where you need all these things, like worse than level four, is like a year and a half. Um, if you include Alzheimer's patients, it jumps up to three. Right. Because Alzheimer's patients just seem to live a little bit longer. Right. So you're looking at something north of $12,000 a month, uh, typically for um true, true memory care.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh, but you typically there's a lot of add-on services that could increase that even more. Now, this is where it gets really expensive. And the good news is this is what we plan for in our financial planning.
Skilled Nursing And Facility Quality Traps
SPEAKER_01We plan for the worst case scenario, and that's a skilled nursing care home. So this is where you have to choose between a semi-private and a private room.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So over there in assisted living and independent living, there's never any discussion about if your room's private or not.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like it your room's always private.
SPEAKER_05It's your room.
SPEAKER_01You're buying an apartment.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01It's really no different than apartment living.
SPEAKER_05Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You're like, but some of the management people you see actually come from apart managing apartments into managing independent living facilities. I don't think they should. I think they should have training in elder care personally. I've seen some really bad situations where they the lady worked at an apartment down the street and then they bring her in here and she doesn't know how to work with older people.
SPEAKER_05Makes sense. Yeah. I don't know. I love my people at my apartment, but I don't know if they should transfer to someone that needs care in that way.
SPEAKER_01You think some uh some older people, especially with um memory issues, they don't like change. And so when you're moving them into a new environment, yeah, they start lashing out.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You don't need a combative manager combating, you need someone who understands what's happening. Yes, and how to handle it. And you had to handle it, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's honestly, that's the difference between I think the bad facilities and the good facilities. There's training, but the training the people and the the letters after their names, honestly.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Uh so in a skilled nursing uh home, you are um there 24 hours. Like you you probably potentially don't get out of bed, or if you do, someone's wheeling you to eat. Uh, you probably need help with all your daily activities. Um again, uh I think we talked about this earlier, but medic medication administration, wound care, injections, rehabilitation, feeding assistance, very complex transfers from bed to your chair or whatever, uh, management of chronic or unstable medical conditions. So you're it's kind of like you're not in the hospital, but it's almost like you are in how they're caring for you.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01Uh these are situations where I tell you, uh I tell clients, do not um, do not just show up every Sunday. We go and see mom at the nursing home. You need to show up on frequently and random times because if you do it that way, you will find your loved one in the true state that they're in.
SPEAKER_05Of how they're being cared for. Yes.
SPEAKER_01We have a client now that can communicate very well, who's in a nursing home, and she tells us that, oh, when you guys are here, that's the only time they come and check on me.
SPEAKER_05Interesting.
SPEAKER_01When you guys aren't here, I don't see people for days.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_01Right? Other than for someone to bring three meals a day.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and you don't want them to be able to prepare for when you're coming.
SPEAKER_01But when we're standing there, they're like, oh, Miss So-and-so, let's take you down for your uh let's take you down for a uh for a stroll through the park, or you know, because they have uh, you know, flowers and stuff outside, or hey, you know, it's time to go down for your physical therapy. And like she should be getting that every almost every single day.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Not just when I'm here, not just when we show up, the check on her, right? Um, so anyway, if if you're in a shared room, you're looking at something around $100,000 to $124,000 a year in care. If you're in a private room, it's probably something around $106 to $146,000 in the Southeast. Very, very expensive. Typically, people are not staying in these places for a long time. For a long time. If you get our years and years and years is what yeah, it's usually end-of-life kind type things. There's very complex things that they're helping you manage. Unfortunately, again, it's only as good as the care. And in my experience, in 26 years of visiting with clients and helping families through this, is some of the worst places that on the outside are sometimes the best on the inside. And some of the best on the outside are the worst on the inside.
SPEAKER_05The flashiest, that look the newest. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01My own grandmother was at one where she went two weeks and no one gave her her meds.
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01And I think my mom just randomly mentioned one day, oh, she had her meds today making small talk or whatever. And they're like, oh no, she's not on any meds. Like, I think she's on about 20 meds, actually.
SPEAKER_07Oh my.
SPEAKER_01And then go check her chart. It's like, no, she's on no meds. Charts wrong. They just took her off all her meds. Wow. Isn't that crazy?
SPEAKER_05That is crazy. I mean, how do you handle something like that? That's yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, in that case, she got we got her out of the way.
SPEAKER_05Well, you move for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was a brand new facility. It looked great on the outside, terrible in the end, terrible in the management.
SPEAKER_05Do your research. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And there's also two, like, they'll help you, and then they go, Oh, well, Medicare is about to run out for paying for this, right? Because it's covering, I believe, the first 90 days. 80. It's 80 days. Thank you. That's why you're here. So covering that first 80 days. And then when the 80 days are starting to run out, they're like, okay, well, who's going to pay us? Oh, you can't pay us. Uh, and so they'll quickly say, Okay, you're fine. You can go home now, or they'll work you out of the facility.
SPEAKER_06Interesting.
SPEAKER_01So you just need to leave the facility for a little while and then you can come back under under under Medicare again, right? So uh you have to be very careful if you don't have resources, like what's actually happening with their real cost.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and Medicare will cover, and I think that's like part of what will uh well, a lot of people do think like Medicare will take care of it, and it they do in full take care of it for 80 days and then like a portion of it after 20. So it's a full 100 days.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But Medicare's only there to take care of a very short-term portion of it. This that's not long-term care planning. Correct. Because it's not long-term at all. You have to have resources after that in order to cover it, or try to get on state care like Medicaid, if if that's even a possibility for who's going into the care.
SPEAKER_01So for clients listening out of Georgia, um, in states like uh Washington state, you're required by law to carry a long-term care policy.
SPEAKER_05Really?
SPEAKER_01So in and uh I think there's other states that I've seen that as well, where they're you're required to buy a long-term care policy either through the government or you're gonna be assigned one and be able to take it out of your paycheck.
SPEAKER_06Wow.
SPEAKER_01Or you're gonna choose your own and prove that you have one. That's just for these reasons because people aren't preparing themselves for those.
SPEAKER_05No, not at all. Well, I just feel like it's something distant in the future. And if you do have a parent or grandparent that never did think about it, or maybe they didn't have the ability to think about it, it kind of does fall on the next generation. Right. And you're like, oh, so now I need to let me think about both of these, myself and them. So it can be a hard situation for sure.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
Hospice Misunderstandings And Hidden Gaps
SPEAKER_01So there's a couple other things is that I guess I guess one thing that I learned was hospice is not just for your final days of life. Um, hospice would come in and help with um, I guess they call it palliative care, um, but they would help with pain management, nausea or appetite issues, fatigue, anxiety, nutrition, family support, uh, bathing in our case, uh those not on my list here. That that was all done through through hospice. Um, so hospit you think about, oh, they're on hospice. That means okay, we're about to lose them, and they're helping manage their pain for the end of life. Hospice is not gonna do anything preventative. Uh we have a client now that um they were saying, well, she probably has two weeks to live. And the love, the family member started looking into things, and the lady was having a hard time communicating, she was just kind of sleepy or dreary all the time. Again, she was in a nursing home, right? And she got into this state very quickly, okay, only to find out she had a UTI. And UTI affects so many things. Yeah. And so now she's now she's gonna probably gonna be fine, except that two weeks of that state like decayed her muscles and her mouth, and she's now still having a hard time swallowing and eating. And so it might be just a new state of mind for her. Um, she doesn't does nothing, the patient does nothing to really care for herself. So it's partially yeah on her how she got in that situation. But um, again, hospice was not going to figure that out.
SPEAKER_05No, right?
SPEAKER_01So you so you they're not looking into it. They're not looking, they're just like, okay, end of life, we need to take care of it, we need to manage the situation. We're not here to improve anything, other than maybe how they feel, no pain, things like that. So hospice level, um, there's there's also four levels there. So there's routine home care. Uh, that's probably the most common level. So that's nursing visits, um hospice aid, social work, physician oversight, um, medications, uh, maybe helping with a hospital bed or oxygen. Uh, they do they offer a lot of counseling on how to handle the situation, what resources are available in the community. That's definitely at level one. Uh, there's there's continuous home care, which is more like short-term crisis care. So that's just after someone's had a stroke or after something's happened, they kind of help you get back into home, but they're not there like forever, right? Um, and then there's respite care, which uh is more a short inpatient stace and in intended to give the caregiver uh some relief. I haven't really seen that executed well because I feel like they're there for 30 minutes and they leave. So if that's relief, then maybe that's not a lot. That's not a lot. No, relief would be like we're here for eight hours today. You go do you take care of your day and yeah, get some stuff done.
SPEAKER_05Just not 30 minutes, you can maybe have a five-minute drive.
SPEAKER_01Right. It's not it's not that way at all, in my experience.
SPEAKER_05Interesting.
SPEAKER_01Also, also like more end of life, right? That's level four general inpatient care. So short-term, very intensive Hofstas care when symptoms cannot be reasonably managed uh in the current setting. So typically management of uncontrolled pain, respiratory distress, severe nausea, vomiting. Um, but typically I I I relate that to typically, I think if it's like end of life kind of things.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Basically bringing this kind of all back to uh all this, bringing this all back to finances.
How We Plan And Pay For Care
SPEAKER_01We're going anywhere from a companion at home being a thousand dollars a month to twenty-five thousand dollars a month for someone living in your house with independent living and an assisted living facility at you know, to assisted living level one through four to memory care, these all so different cost structures.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, how do you even plan for it?
SPEAKER_01You know, and and the partially how we plan for it is A, we we run a in our financial planning, we run a test and say, hey, if you're in a nursing home for three years, does any of this turn to red on our screen? Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_05Do you run out of money?
SPEAKER_01Do you write to truly run out of money? Um, you have there's two people too. People have a spouse. So you can you get two people through the process without running out of money? Um, can you can you um uh or or some families, it's really important that they inherited money and they want to make sure their next generation inherits money and don't want something like this to completely just wipe it all away. Yeah. So that's where you can buy a long-term care policy, not maybe not to traditional policy. If you have resources, you're gonna buy a policy that would good cover a good chunk of this, but if you never used it, what you paid for the policy goes goes to the next generation as a death benefit. Um, so there there are policies out there. Again, we're a fee-only firm. We don't sell any of these products, we help people source them and find them uh for what's best for them.
SPEAKER_05Correct. Because it is really hard, like we were just saying, all those ADLs, you have to get two of them in order to even get the benefit of the long-term care. And those are hard to get.
SPEAKER_01You need a physician to sign off on that.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah. They because, and this is awful, but this is just how insurance works, but like they really don't want to pay out. No. And so they make it really difficult to even be able to use the benefit of it. And we hear clients dealing with that all the time for a parent or something. They're like, Yeah, she's had this policy for all these years and she didn't get to use it.
SPEAKER_01So home care is the worst because you have to fill out a timesheet, the worker has to fill out what they did.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh when you're in a facility, they have whole people and whole offices there. That's all they do all day is fill out these forms and get insurance money for the for the organization. So it is a little easier if you're in a facility versus if you're because there's assistance with that. Yes. But there's also some really poorly written policies that just are almost built to where they almost don't cover anything.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And those those are which we want to avoid. Right. That's why you buy those or you you work with an independent advisor to to look into those for you, but they're not selling them to you. They're not, there's no product being selling.
SPEAKER_05So we're gonna make sure you get the best one for you, right?
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_05Not for the commission, not for the commission. Yeah, correct.
SPEAKER_01And also, too, you gotta think about if you're even if you're gonna write a check for $150,000 to get a policy that covers and then reimburses you, yeah. That money's out of the market for such a long time. Are you not better off just leaving that money in the SP 500 and taking that growth over the next 20, 30 years?
SPEAKER_05And potentially using that to pay for whatever care you need.
SPEAKER_01Correct. So these are all things you have you have to um you just have to have to weigh um versus each other. Uh it's a very big industry because we have so many boomers that are going into this situation right now. I would just be cautious on what is the best for your loved one. I I don't know. I mean, we all have to pay for it somehow, but what is what is best for them? How can they get the proper care? Because there's just some really sad situations out there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. And then there's uh there's also other ways to pay for it other than a long-term care policy, of course.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So case in point, yeah. We plan to everyone living between 90 to 95 to 100 years old. Statistically, not every client's gonna live that long. Yeah. So there's there's additional resources in the plan to help cover a large end-of-life expense.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like we're not gonna plan until you have zero money. Because what if something was gonna happen?
SPEAKER_01Correct. Um market fallout, right? Long-term care costs, there's a lot of different things there. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_05So, and like we were saying, like you can if if it's just one spouse left, there is the opportunity to sell a home and then move into something and have that pay for the facility. Um, maybe have a pension that can cover some of the costs, social security. There's a lot of different ways that you don't have to have a long-term care policy to help cover things like this. It just is a lot of planning to figure out what resources are we gonna use. And sometimes you have to get savvy, and that's okay. Um, that's what planning is for.
SPEAKER_01So we'll kind of end on this.
Questions To Ask Before You Sign
SPEAKER_01There are some questions that I believe families should be asking. Uh, what care does the quoted monthly? Fee actually include. You need to be careful of that because you're going to get an invoice. It's kind of like when you send a kid to college and you're looking at the invoice and it's like, oh, this is the parking fee. This is the badge park. This is the parking badge fee. This is the walking on our sidewalk fee. You know, and you're just like, wait a minute, none of this was listed in the brochure.
SPEAKER_05No, never.
SPEAKER_01So what care is in the quoted monthly fee is included. Um, how does the community define its care levels and what causes the resident to move to the next level? So you will get a care plan before you move in. And then they will quarterly um probably come through and rewrite the care plan and say, okay, this is where they are now.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's somewhat, I'm not saying they do this on uh purpose necessarily, but it feels like they're upselling sometimes. And that's like, oh, she really needs help with this now. Yeah. So we're gonna start charging this. Yeah. Right. Uh and and at the bad facilities, you know, they might actually need additional services, but they realize they don't actually do it. I ran into that one time. It's like we have these four levels of care. Okay, great. You guys aren't, you know, do you guys have the capability of doing level four? And you start looking into it and you're like, anyone at level four? I don't think I don't think they have capability of doing that. Yeah. Um, what is the okay, so what is the monthly price at the highest assisting care level? So understand what your max cost could be if your loved one stays there.
SPEAKER_05And could you afford it if it got to that point?
SPEAKER_01Correct. Um, are medication management, continence care, transfers, escorting, or two-person assistance additional charges? So typically medication management, you'll see that it's like $400 a month. So you need to decide is my love, does my loved one have problems taking pills? Uh, the lady that we were helping, she would not take her pills out of defiance. Yeah. Like she was, she was very wanted to control everything.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01Um also, too, I'll add to that that if they don't take their pills, what happens? Because I've seen situations where they were refusing pills and they're not going to like tackle your person and force it down their throat.
SPEAKER_05They're not a dog.
SPEAKER_01But no one was notified.
SPEAKER_05Oh.
SPEAKER_01The family wasn't notified, this person wasn't taking the pills. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Cause I either I or someone else could have gotten a car, driven over there and said, You're taking the pills.
SPEAKER_05Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they they would have taken the pills, but we weren't notified. If memory care becomes necessary, what is the current price and what services are included? You got to make sure they're not um memory care might be memory care, but then you're still paying extra for uh the ADLs. Oh, yeah. You're gonna be paying extra for the medications. Um, if we keep the person at home, how many paid care caregiver hours are realistically needed now? And what would 12 hour or 24 hour coverage cost? So don't don't start pigeonholing yourself into a situation where this is where you're this is what you're gonna do, you're gonna keep them home and not understand how where the costs go. You need to understand where you need to exit. And say, okay, we're gonna do this, but if it goes to this point, mom or dad, you're gonna have to go to this facility so we can keep our costs down.
SPEAKER_05Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Does an does an existing long-term care insurance policy cover home care, assisted living, memory care, adult daycare, and nursing care? So you might have a loved one who says they have a long-term care policy, but there are a lot of boxes to check on what it actually does. Review it. You need to go review the policy, understand what is what's included. Sometimes in home care, there might be $12,000 a month benefit, but in home care is only $2,500.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you need to make sure that you fully understand what the policy says. Don't let your parents or your loved one tell you, oh, I have a policy for this, and you think, okay, everything's fine. They have a policy for this.
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_01They could have been sold a really light policy because it was more affordable, and you're gonna have to check a lot of boxes before it ever can be used.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So have someone review it, even if it's the insurance agent that sold it to you. They can at least tell you what the policy says.
SPEAKER_01There are nursing home care policies that only cover nursing home. Wow. I've seen them. They're older. Yeah. But if you go to assisted living, it wouldn't cover it.
SPEAKER_05No, yeah. So then it's like you have to get to the absolute worst point ever. Correct. To actually use the benefit.
SPEAKER_01If hospice is elected, who provides ordinary caregiving between hospice visits? That's really important that you have that figured out. Um if you if hospice is provided in assisted living or a nursing home, who pays room and board? So or is any of that covered under hospice? Uh most likely not. It'll just be understand, just understand um the situation. Yeah, exactly. So hopefully some of those uh some of those questions would help you kind of trigger conversations. Um, I I would add one last thing is that you should cover the agreement if they're independent living. Uh if they're an independent living, you're they're gonna sign an agreement. Uh we review these for clients typically.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're kind of all standard, but there is one company in Metro Atlanta that has like three locations that has this identification clause that says if they get sued, all their residents have to support them in that lawsuit. And I'm not okay with that.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01And we got in a big shouting match between myself, uh, our attorney, their attorney, and the owners of these facilities because my clients were gonna go there and they have significant assets, and like you guys mess up. My clients are just in their room living out their end of their lives, and you're not gonna pay for it.
SPEAKER_05Your mistake.
SPEAKER_01Like, we're we're not going to they're not gonna use their money to cover your mistakes. Um and I have clients who own assisted living facilities, and I went to them with the contract and I said, This is the contract, it says this. And they're like, What? Never seen that before. Like there's an industry standard contract that most facilities will use.
SPEAKER_05We'll use, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And this this um uh what what the attorney ended up doing, we we they agreed, okay, we'll take it out. Well, take it out means we took it out of that paragraph and then moved it into a different paragraph like 12 pages down. And I looked at the clients, do you because it was a very nice, it's a very nice independent living. This is when they could drive, they had their own garage, they could drive themselves in or out, right?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, it's like a lot of things.
SPEAKER_01I said, Do you guys really, really want to live here? Because these people are are not being honest with you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's nice.
SPEAKER_01And they did, they did, they did want to live there. Uh so um, but we got the clause eventually removed. I'm just yeah, I'm just on the hit list probably for the organization.
SPEAKER_05But you see this name.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, this probably sounds really overwhelming to the listener, and that's not probably what we're honestly trying to do, but we are trying to just make sure you understand, like there's a lot of parts to planning for this, and it's exactly what we do whenever we come in here. It can be very overwhelming. Sometimes this is a big um fear for clients, and other clients are, you know, how they joke around. They're like, if I ever need assisted living, I'm gonna just like off myself. Like, you know how they say it's so funny. Yeah, that it never actually. I'm glad you say that, but we are still gonna do the plan and let you know if you need a policy. Um, so this is always part of uh the planning process. So this is not meant to be overwhelming to the listener or someone that's currently going through this, but this is just to make sure you understand like what's to come or what you could potentially be going through now.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Grace.
Resources, Next Steps, And Wrap-Up
SPEAKER_01And uh thanks you, thank you for listening today's episode. If you want to learn more about Wiser Wealth Management or speak with one of our fiduciary financial advisors, you can do so by going to wiserinvestor.com. Uh, you can also look in the show notes uh for links to a video about long-term care without breaking the bank on long-term care insurance explained, which is probably uh be a good part too to this. Uh uh, we have we have episodes with Randy in the past, so it would probably be uh helpful to listen to sure. Uh but anyway, thanks for listening, and we'll see you guys again next week.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening to a wiser retirement podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. Make sure to subscribe wherever you're listening. That way you don't miss any new episodes. We'd also appreciate if you could leave a rating and review. If you have any questions about anything that was discussed today, head to wiserinvestor.com and reach out. This podcast is strictly for informational purposes only and is not to be considered as investment advice or solicitation to buy or sell any financial products, securities, digital assets, or any other investment vehicles, or a basis to make any financial decisions. Wiser Wealth Management Incorporated is a registered investor advisor with the SEC. The host and or guest may personally own securities, digital assets, or other investment vehicles mentioned on this podcast. Neither the host nor guest of the show are compensated for their participation, and no referral fees are paid to or received by any host or guest for clients, listeners, or similar interests. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor, tax professional, insurance professional, andor legal professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.
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