Songwriting secrets, music and motherhood - backstage with Helen Shanahan

Songwriting has been both therapy and a lifelong career for Perth-born singer/songwriter Helen Shanahan.  It’s taken her to Nashville and London, across Australia’s regions and now to The Songwriters’ Café where she shares her experiences, creativity and storytelling in song through an intimate Fremantle café setting.

“Sometimes I’m inspired by other people’s stories … but often it is the day to day and even mundane interactions … I think that’s why it’s important to stay curious.” – Helen Shanahan

You’ll hear:

• Songwriting process (13:50)
• Music track: Unborn (29:15)
• Working with Tim Minchin (32:00)
• The Songwriters Café (34:00)
• Helen’s Warm Table (38:00)
• Motherhood (41:30)
• Independent musician (47:00)
• Music track: Finding Gold (51:00)

Duration: 54 minutes

Links:
Helen Shanahan
The Songwriters Café Facebook page
Helen Shanahan on Spotify
I Heart Songwriting Club
Tim Minchin
Book: ‘Writing Better Lyrics’ by Pat Pattison

 A Warm Hug in a Cookie Recipe
Ingredients: 125g butter (room temp), ¼ cup caster sugar, ½ cup of brown sugar, 1 egg, 1 cup plain flour, 1 cup of self-raising flour, ½ teaspoon bi carb, ¾ - 1 cup choc chips
Method: Mix ingredients, roll into 12 balls. Press down slightly, then place into the oven at 190deg for approx 10 minutes.

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Podcast website: https://mywarmtablewithsonia.buzzsprout.com/
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Thank you!

• Enormous thanks to Helen Shanahan and Mushroom Music Publishing for licence to use the tracks:

Transcript

Helen Shanahan: 0:05

I guess for me, I always think about a song as a mini film almost, because I think it's one of the best ways to communicate quickly to someone

Sonia Nolan: 0:17

that's Perth born singer songwriter and new mother Helen Shanahan, giving you a behind the scenes peek at her songwriting process, as well as singing, teaching, mentoring, writing and recording Helen hosts the songwriters cafes, a new addition to the WA music landscape, where you can meet great local talent in an intimate setting over a meal and delight in their stories and songs. She's brimming with creativity and new ideas, following a decade of making records and soaking in musical greatness from Nashville to London, to all around regional Australia. And now motherhood, which is inspiring her to write even more from a heart of hope and gladness. Helen Shanahan is my guest today. I'm Sonia Nolan. And thanks for joining us around my warm table. Helen Shanahan, thank you so much for coming over to my warm table and being available to interview today.

Unknown: 1:17

Thank you so much, Sonia. It's such an honour to be here. Having known you over the years to see you in this podcast space is amazing. So thank you.

Sonia Nolan: 1:27

We were having a laugh when we Hello that you've walked into my blanket studio literally it is my office with blankets all around it just to absorb all the sound. And I'm sure over the years in your international career you've recorded in somewhat more sophisticated digs. And

Helen Shanahan: 1:43

actually, you'd be surprised on Yeah. This is very comforting to me. Actually, I feel like I could rest my head and one of these

Sonia Nolan: 1:52

records you probably could. Now Helen, what I wanted to talk to you about is apart from everything. I'm just so excited that you've just recently released another album, which is your your fourth album.

Helen Shanahan: 2:06

It's my so full length album is 10 tracks or more if we're gonna be so specific about no no formula is a formula I tell you, right. So it's actually my second full length album.

Sonia Nolan: 2:20

Let's go through them because I'm I'm so privileged to have been there from the very beginning, Helen

Helen Shanahan: 2:25

Yes. So my first ad with a caught EPS which are less than 10 songs on a recording. So my first EP was girl in love in 2009. time ago, yes. And then driftwood was my second EP in 2012. Finding gold was in 2015. And then I released my debut album, every little sting in 2017. And then my sophomore album, Canvas in 2022. This year

Sonia Nolan: 2:58

just happened and it is absolutely as always a masterpiece Helen Helen canvas just seems to have so many different sounds that you know, it's it's got some sort of country feel it's got some sort of rock feel it did. God. It's just shows the expanse of your talents. I loved it.

Helen Shanahan: 3:20

Thank you very much, Sonia. You're always so kind. And yeah, it was considering everything in the world at the moment with the little pandemic. And to actually record the album was quite a feat in itself. So I'm very happy that it's out there. And yes, I think it shows a lot of different parts of me musically and emotionally as well.

Sonia Nolan: 3:46

So let's start from the beginning. Hello, let's go back to teenage Helen. Yeah, long, far back. We go right back. Teenage Helen's sitting in her bedroom, writing music singing songs on her guitar. Tell me about that, Helen, and where your journey has led you

Helen Shanahan: 4:05

to? Yeah, well, I mean, to go back that far. I can barely record. No, but those those years for me, were very formative. I have always had a lot of, I guess you could say nervousness and anxiety. And writing has always been a way for me to deal with it. It's been a way for me to work out how I'm feeling and go through life. Just being able to get through each day really. So. When I was in Year 12. Specifically, I felt my guitar and I had my journal and I kept a journal from a very young age because prior to year 12 I also dealt with, you know, feelings of anxiety. So I was told by a counsellor to keep a journal. So I kept the journal and And it wasn't until probably year 10 that I started to put music and the words together into song. And I was actually I loved theatre. Being such an anxious person. I don't know why I was I just always had this love of becoming a character because it wasn't myself, I could get into that role. So, I loved musical theatre. But for me, what changed was when I started yes to write my own songs, and I actually left school studying theatre and communication and Cultural Studies at Curtin University. I didn't actually know that it was a viable career path to be a singer songwriter. I actually hated the course at Curtin. I love the Curtin is a great university, but it just wasn't the right course for me.

Sonia Nolan: 5:52

And you did graduate from that course and you won Curtin's Got Talent.

Helen Shanahan: 5:58

Oh, my goodness. I certainly did. And that was I can't believe you remember that Sonia?

Sonia Nolan: 6:07

Well, that's a lot. I remember that we'll go through on a podcast.

Helen Shanahan: 6:10

But you know what, that actually that it's funny, you brought that up? Because that was what made me think maybe I'm doing the wrong thing.

Sonia Nolan: 6:18

Feeling you got when you won that and when you were performing was just inside you and you knew that hang on a minute. This is actually what I'm supposed to be doing. Exactly.

Helen Shanahan: 6:27

I thought, What am I doing here? You know, I was actually controlling the sound and lighting in the theatre desk at cost like whoa, what am I doing behind you? You know, I got addicted to that feeling once I did that. Yeah, the curtain singing competition. And from that moment on, I attended open mic nights. And I yeah, I really did become addicted to it. And then I decided to hone my skills further and I auditioned for our Whopper, the WA Academy of Performing Arts, which is

Sonia Nolan: 6:59

incredibly prestigious. Well,

Helen Shanahan: 7:01

it's, I was very lucky, they saw the wrongness in me. There's a lot of work to be done. And there was, and after I graduated Whopper, I felt like I you know, I still continue to learn to this day, but I had a lot more skills and a lot more refinement. And a lot more encouragement is well that did that I was on the right path musically.

Sonia Nolan: 7:28

And during that time was that that's when you released your first EP was during a time.

Helen Shanahan: 7:33

That's it. So I had I had released girl in love with my late friend Brian, he recorded in his parents granny flat. And I had recorded that prior to Whopper, I think it was the year before I left. But when I graduated Whopper, I went to kind of a more professional setting. And that's how driftwood came about. And I got the courage to enter this national competition the Telstra rotor discovery. And it was with the tracks off driftwood that I had professionally done that I got into the final stages and got to win the competition which I got to visit Nashville on the back of that and I got to do lots of touring and and it opened up so many doors for me after doing that.

Sonia Nolan: 8:27

And I've got to say that driftwood is I think my most favourite album of yours. I love love love driftwood. And I can probably won't think of those songs, but I'm all the way. Yeah, it definitely was the launching pad for you wasn't it? Definitely. Yeah. And so you visited Nashville. So you made some connections there. And they then helped you with the next stage of your journey.

Helen Shanahan: 8:52

Absolutely. And Nashville is, uh, typically, whatever you've heard about Nashville is true. It's a Music City through and through, literally, I don't know, if anyone has a like a normal job, they I feel everyone is a musician. And I got to meet some incredible people there. I got to do co writing for the first time, which is you know, writing with another person and it was just amazing. When I went there in 2016 I recorded my debut album, and the producer Brad Jones was just so encouraging and he to have someone of that calibre kind of saying what you're doing is good, you know, really helped me, you know, stay on my path. And because I'm constantly having these thoughts of self doubt, and you know, as an artist, you always have those thoughts. And so, you know, those moments just really encourage me to keep going, I guess,

Sonia Nolan: 9:57

and we all need that, don't we? We all need people to say that You are on the right track and you're doing, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, which is what we were talking about a bit earlier was. That's right. So you recorded your debut album. And I want to know the feeling that you had when you put that out into the world, because it's a big deal. There's a lot of your own, obviously, it's your own thoughts, feelings, creativity, all on display.

Helen Shanahan: 10:25

Yes. And that is something that I still grapple with, to this day, I felt a myriad of things, I felt, I did feel very proud. Because, for me, looking back on my journey, thinking about where I started, you know, as just someone who couldn't even look the crowd in the eye, and, you know, sitting down on stage, to saying, I have recorded an album, you know, in Nashville, you know, I did feel proud of that. But on the other hand, I did feel very vulnerable, because I was writing about a lot of my, you know, anxiety and putting it on show. But then on the flip side, I felt a release, because, you know, I was putting my thoughts out there, and that comes with, it's kind of a cathartic feeling. And that's what draws me to music as well, because otherwise you keep it all inside. And for someone that's not good at, you know, verbalising how I'm feeling, you know, with words, just in a conversation, and songwriting is so important to me. So, yeah, so the album, you know, it had a lot of different, there was a lot of prongs of feelings for me, there, but the one that stands out is, you know, just the feeling of pride to actually have a finished product that, you know, was worked on in Nashville with a wonderful producer and musicians. So, yeah, it's

Sonia Nolan: 11:51

quite an achievement, just so fantastic, Helen. And it's interesting, you're saying that, you know, having that feeling of anxiety and and that you're writing about anxiety, and so forth. I read recently that, you know, especially during the pandemic time, people have found that connecting with music, or some sort of creative arts has been incredibly important to them, and really helped them with their own mental health during the pandemic. And it's, it's quite, you know, and I don't want to go down a political path. But this understanding that we're not supporting the creative arts enough, when in fact, that is, you know, the panacea to helping us get through all of the issues and feelings that we have. So the Creative Arts is just incredibly important.

Helen Shanahan: 12:35

Oh, absolutely. Because music, it just is the soundtrack to so many important things in our life. You know, not only, you know, weddings, but funerals are everything. You know, without music, we've got nothing. So it really does help us get through those tough times and the joyful times. Oh, absolutely.

Sonia Nolan: 12:56

And it is definitely a debt. It's a soundtrack to your life, as you said. And on a completely unrelated point, I was seeing something the other day as well, that said, you know, it's really sad when the songs that you know, you thought about in in your youth, and you know, what part of your soundtrack of your youth actually become the sounds that you hear when you're in the grocery. That's where I'm at, right? All of my favourites if you want to hear them, go to Coles

Helen Shanahan: 13:21

next podcast, so you should do a best of

Sonia Nolan: 13:25

the best of grocery shopping track. Helen, back to you, Helen, I really want to understand the songwriting process, because one of the things that you do is actually champion songwriting in others through a songwriting club. So tell me about the process and tell me about the club?

Helen Shanahan: 13:43

Well, that is a great question because songwriting can come about in many different ways. And, as I mentioned before, it's always come about for me from keeping a journal and then taking those thoughts and putting it to music. However, after a couple of years doing that, you can feel like you're stuck in a rut, and it's not always going to work for you every time. So there's a wonderful club that I became acquainted with, I think, maybe six years ago. Now. It's called I heart songwriting club. And the premise is that you're given it's a 10 week term, and each week, you're given a topic and you have to write a song to that topic in one hour. And then you have to upload that song to the group. And you have people in that group songwriters from anywhere around the globe because it's an online platform. And then at the 10 weeks, end of the 10 weeks, you've got 10 songs to share. And the idea behind it is not necessarily to have 10 amazing songs. The point is that you're practising your craft every week, and because sometimes you can go for up to even a year without writing anything, because you think, Oh, that's not good enough, or I'm not in the zone, or I'm just too busy. But this programme actually forces you to keep up with the creative craft. And I found that to be so beneficial for me, because I was maybe getting to a stage where I was just avoiding myself as well, which I can do you know, when I've got so much on, I think, oh, no, I'll put that on the back burner. So, um, yeah, I got involved in the club as a just a someone who joins the club. And I did that I've done I think seven terms with the club. So I had 70 songs. And through the club, I was able to choose actually some songs that weren't, you know, so bad that up went on my album,

Sonia Nolan: 15:49

Songs that were incredibly cool.

Helen Shanahan: 15:51

And it was amazing, because we got the feedback from the other members in the group. And it was just a great kind of collaborative thing as well. And now because I love the programme so much, I'm mentoring other songwriters. So I've got youth groups, so people, or children or young adults, I think the youngest ages 12. And, yes, so and then I've got people from from all walks of life doing it that I'm giving feedback to in the group. And I'm also still a member. So I'm on my second week of a new term now. So I've got my word today. So there's just another way of doing it. But the traditional way, I still do as well. But this is just a good way to keep practising and not being so attached to having an amazing finished product, you just have to keep going to get to that amazing thing, you have to be okay with writing bad songs basically.

Sonia Nolan: 16:54

Well, it's actually what all the major authors will tell you is that it's actually a discipline. And you know, I've read a lot about authors who get up in the morning, and between the hours of five and eight, or five and 10, whatever they set their time for, they will just write and they just write and whatever they write, they write. And it is just this discipline to just keep writing, and eventually there'll be some gold within that.

Helen Shanahan: 17:18

Exactly, that is the idea. Because otherwise, if we're not, I think the the founder of the club, Francesca de valence, she said that, you know, she didn't feel like a legitimate songwriter, because she wasn't writing anything. But she said, I am a songwriter. And I just need to keep up with the practice of it. So that's why she founded it, and the discipline is a massive part of it. And you just have to be okay to wade through those songs that maybe you never want to show anyone doesn't mean you're a bad song, right? It means you're just practising.

Sonia Nolan: 17:56

And there might be a line from that, that you use for something else. What are the key like, what are the prompt words? So what's today's?

Helen Shanahan: 18:06

I actually haven't checked I should have I haven't, I'm terrible. See that? I'm not even disciplined enough to. But last week was drive. So yeah, and you also have an extra challenge. So the extra challenge was to have it as a driving beat as well. So you had to kind of have an up tempo song. And you also

Sonia Nolan: 18:32

you obviously drive fast.

Helen Shanahan: 18:36

Yes, yes. So I got that song in I do it now. With I've got one and a half year old, I did it in hushed tones while she had a nap. Just trying to get the song out. So the one hour timeframe works well for me in that regard.

Sonia Nolan: 18:53

And that's the interesting thing is that there's that element of stress and you have to deliver within an hour so you can't overthink her, which I think is really good. Because I have to say that overthinking is my superpower is anyone's wondering overthinking is it and and so actually having that time pressure, you just have to deliver and you can't be too hard on yourself,

Helen Shanahan: 19:13

that is a massive part of it as well. And it's just do not labour over one line as well. I think you just get it out there, get the song finished. And then after the 10 weeks or whenever you can come back to the song and change that line but it's just getting the creativity out of you rather than just your thinking on or that's not no I'm not too sure which we're all guilty of doing a call it's not to say that that still won't happen but it's just one way to you know, keep going and practice your craft.

Sonia Nolan: 19:44

It's just wonderful and such such great tips for wannabe songwriters who might be listening just you know so there's the I heart your

Helen Shanahan: 19:51

songwriting club. And you know what I'm pretty sure there's there's lots of other things out there you can you can look at but another thing that has helped me. There's an amazing book called writing better Lyrics by a man called Pat Pattinson. And he teaches at Berklee in the US. And he's got this amazing set of tools for songwriters, if anyone is listening, that's a budding songwriter. And one of the things he talks about his stream of consciousness writing, and I'm sure a lot of other writers do this, too. But I do it a lot for stress relief, as well, in a sense, you wake up every morning, and you write nonstop for five minutes without judging what you're writing. And it doesn't have to be. It's not curated at all. You're literally just emptying your brain. And then you close the book, and you get on with your day. And then you can look through that book and see what was actually thinking, you know, and first thing in the morning, you know, we haven't had any interactions yet. We're just kind of focused in on our senses and what's around us.

Sonia Nolan: 21:06

Interesting, you talk about lyrics, Helen, because I think one of one of your many strengths is your lyrical ability. You're an amazing storyteller. And throughout all of your songs, even the ones that you wrote, when you were 14 years old. There is this this storytelling, lyrical quality and there you know, you can just feel the the characters that you've created in your thongs and that's something that's always struck me, Helen,

Helen Shanahan: 21:35

thank you, Sonia. That's a very kind of you to say. And I guess for me, I always think about a song as a mini film almost. Because I think it's one of the best ways to communicate quickly to someone, you've only got maybe three, three and a half minutes where you have to get the listeners attention. And so I That's why I do think of it in that way of a story and trying to be visual or use the senses, or, and that's a big part of what I talk about when I mentor someone, think, am I engaged for this whole three minutes? What is why am I getting lost? In a certain point? Maybe it's not descriptive enough, or I can't visualise something or so. So that is a big part of lyric writing. And I do focus on that a lot in the mentoring as well.

Sonia Nolan: 22:26

How do you get your inspiration, I know that you've talked about journal writing, and you've got these key words that you sort of get thrown at you every week when you're doing your songwriting challenges, but otherwise, where does your inspiration come from? Because there is this seems to be some really personal stories in some of your songs.

Helen Shanahan: 22:41

Yes. It does come from my interactions with people. And it can be even just a small interaction. And I just focus in on the emotion of that moment. And sometimes it might be kind of blown out of proportion to how it actually was perhaps, but I do exaggerate channelling that I think that's what, you know, artists do is they might take like, a micro moment, and they they blow it up. But yeah, I do like to focus on here, just certain interactions that I've had how and focus yet on those feelings that I have from those moments. And sometimes I'm inspired by other people's stories. And, you know, sometimes I, I may have read something or watch something that's been particularly moving, but usually it is in my day to day, even mundane interactions. And I think that's why it's important to stay curious,

Sonia Nolan: 23:41

this idea of, you know, taking something that seems quite ordinary, and then just giving it a little bit of polish and a little bit of, you know, sort of extra emphasis. And then you can create incredible lyrics and stories from that. It's, um, that's a great way to write. Thank you. So you've been to Nashville? Yes. And then after that, you came back home to Australia and created more fabulous content and started to really try and position yourself locally and nationally. And then you got married in between there. So that was another great moment. And then you and your husband decided to pack up and we're off to London?

Helen Shanahan: 24:24

Yes, we did. Well, that was something we had always wanted to do. We visited London, you know, as tourists quite a few times. And I just love the city. It's just so there's so many possibilities there. And I think I just there's something about it when I visit there that I just love. And so I thought you know, we both made the decision. You know, we should just go for it and see what happens. And we loved it and it was we started And from scratch. I had a few random jobs in the panic of just how are we going to survive? I actually I worked at this place called the hummingbird bakery in Notting Hill at the Notting Hill market. Oh, and oh my goodness, apparently Gwyneth Paltrow goes there to break her diet. I'm told,

Sonia Nolan: 25:22

Oh, wow, that's that's some fame. Right?

Helen Shanahan: 25:25

This we're delighted. I was like, What am I selling? I was selling cupcakes. Because I love baking. I was like, maybe I could do that. But I lasted a month there. And then I started to, to actually do some, some teaching, which I love to do. And I got to see so many different parts of London because I would travel around take the tube in the bus to go to all these actually amazing house. I'm living in a lovely range, and we met. So that was wonderful. And through doing private tutoring, rather tutoring, yes. So mansions in London, a couple of matches were involved. This is a late living. And they were beautiful kids, and not all of them lived in matches, but I did visit a few. And then I was trying to just do my music, which was the main reason for going there. And I I got to a really good place and I was starting to do I realise music is kind of best heard in an intimate setting. And I love similar to what you say so on your bat being around a table and you know, just the intimacy of you know, being in that space. And so I started to do Cafe tours. Because as drinking cup of tea, I love tea as well. So I was like you have a cuppa I listen to these, you know, stories in songs. So yeah, I developed like a cafe tour around the UK. So I did one of those and I was about to embark in a Scotland cafe to her. And it was wonderful because you know musics not necessarily always in a cafe. So I had to talk to the owners and say you okay to open your cafe after hours and whatnot. But anyway, we were on the precipice of doing another one. And then we had to pack up and leave in the space of two days because all the venue started closing. And it was just such a quick turnaround. All the students parents said, We've got to cancel the lessons, kind of why I don't want you in house at the moment, because there is this, you know,

Sonia Nolan: 27:43

mysterious steam. So arbit I can time that I'm thinking it's about February 2020. Yes. Correct. The world changed in February 2020.

Helen Shanahan: 27:55

So you know, I had some amazing experiences there. And I'm so I think we crammed so much into that year. I had, yes, amazing gigs there. And the people there was so lovely and responsive. And I got to record a single over there. And I wrote a song about kind of now I'm getting political but climate change because that was the unborn, yes. And because I was thinking about the future in thinking about the state of things because as much as London, London is an amazing city, and so vibrant. You do see the effects of just the amount of people living in one place and the dirt and the smoke and the environment that you see we're so blessed to live in Perth, and see these pristine streets and you know, so it really got me thinking and I was seeing those effects kind of firsthand. So, you know, that was you know, an eye opening part of living there.

Music track: Unborn by Helen Shanahan: 28:59

I'm scared to bring you here. There once was a time where the year was clear. All in my heart you start growing. There was a time where the rivers were flowing. A wish my conscience was clean. I've done things to the place. Didn't mean worried and made it worse for you. I don't know if I can bring you here turn each. Ugly streets gaslighting is there defeat. I don't know how to tell you that we're all dying out here...

Sonia Nolan: 30:03

It's been a really interesting couple of years, though hasn't obviously having Bannie that's that some been a highlight one of the highlights to you and Matt, but also the idea of having to perform during the pandemic, when things are quite uncertain. But Western Australia has been in a little bit of a bubble. During that time. We've had lots of opportunities that perhaps a lot of the rest of the world has not had. And you've had some amazing opportunities or no, I'm going to reframe that. Other international artists have had the most amazing opportunity to work with you, Helen Shanahan, such as Tim Minchin, yes, Missy Higgins, oh, you've had some amazing opportunities to collaborate in the last couple of years because of the pandemic.

Helen Shanahan: 30:53

I know. And that's why I feel a sense of almost guilt that I was enjoying the benefits of. Fortunately, some of you know, the band members not been able to come into WA, so they had to look for kind of local talent. So I was lucky enough to step in. For in the instance of Tim Minchin his,

Sonia Nolan: 31:14

they were lucky they want you to step in, I'm just gonna reframe that for you.

Helen Shanahan: 31:19

Thank you, Sonia.And yeah, so I got to sing backing vocals for Tim Minchin. And it came at a time where my daughter was only three months old. And I was, you know, these opportunities come at a time where maybe you think I had all this time before I was a free agent, and now you choose his time,

Sonia Nolan: 31:40

and you're sleep deprived.

Helen Shanahan: 31:43

But I loved it, it was such a wonderful thing. I learned so much, particularly from Tim Minchin, because I got to see how he worked in his rehearsals. And also seeing that even international stars have a lot of that self doubt. And he was doing material that wasn't his usual comedic material, he had written kind of a personal album. And he was like, well, people aren't either they're here to see the comedic stuff, I don't know if they want it. I was like, even him is is is worrying about what people think. So it made me think, Well, if he's, you know, won Tony Awards, I don't know, you know, Matilda and all this stuff is still worrying about that it makes me feel more, you know, less alone, and that everyone is still, you know, working out things in their own head, even if you've had all these accolades and whatnot. So

Sonia Nolan: 32:41

yeah, and I know that the I know, the album you're referring to, of Tim Minchin, and it's a really personal album. And it's really vulnerable. And I love it. And I think that people are starting to really respond to that vulnerability and to that authenticity, and that people want to hear that they actually want to hear about people being real, and writing songs about feeling real and feeling, you know, feeling unsure and feeling vulnerable, but also feeling excited when they step into their power. So I do think that there is a real need from an audience to hear those things. But it's interesting that of course, when you're putting yourself out there, you're going to feel that vulnerability, and why should someone like Tim Minchin be immune to that? Yeah. But it was must have been amazing to just be reaffirmed. That

Helen Shanahan: 33:31

said, That's right. And then to see him just nail his performances, and no one would have known that he had anything any thought about that. So yeah, as a performer, it's interesting how you, you have all this self doubt you get on the stage, and you just have to be in the moment and just do your thing. And he did that. So it was great.

Sonia Nolan: 33:52

Well, just as Tim Minchin, inspired you, I'm sure you're inspiring others as well, Helen, which is really exciting. When you were doing your cafe tours in London. Did you ever imagine that you would then take that same sort of model and bring it here to Perth? Because that's what you're doing now, isn't it? Yes.

Helen Shanahan: 34:10

Well, I've I've borrowed from the in Nashville, because I did get the idea from the bluebird cafe in Nashville, which is a very famous cafe, in which the songwriters are in the middle of the cafe. There's four songwriters, and they each take it in turn to sing a song, and they do a couple of rounds. So it's called in the round. And it's just it's that intimacy. It's the there's no pretence. Everyone's in the cafe, just having something to eat us just chilling out and you know, talking amongst themselves, and then you get to hear these amazing stories from not one songwriter but you know, a couple of songwriters and to see them interact with each other and it's just wonderful. So I thought, you know, I would love to do this here in Perth, and there's no reason why I can't do it. So I'm gonna, you know, contact a couple of cafes and see if anyone would be interested. And so more and more cafe in Fremantle, we're very, very open to the idea. And we've had three so far, we've had to have a pause due to everything. But you know, it's been really great to connect, you know, Perth audiences to this idea. And it's really been so magical and to be I wish sometimes I was in the crowd, because at the moment, I'm hosting it, but they'll get to a stage where I take a step back, but just at the moment, while I'm just establishing it, I'm in the round every time so everyone will have to hear me every time. But yeah, I'm just really happy that I've been able to follow through with that idea. And, yeah, it's been wonderful.

Sonia Nolan: 36:00

So Moore and Moore Cafe in Fremantle has really leapt onto this. And really, because it's right up their alley, and it's right in the Fremantle sort of pocket, isn't it that sort of intimate, beautiful, creative soul. Evening, how many people come to the are able to come to those events,

Helen Shanahan: 36:17

we started with 80. And now we're at 75% capacity. So it is a very small space. So we're very aware, during this time to not overcrowd the space. So currently, we've got 60, people were allowing in, and we, we've looked at other spaces, but we think there's, there's something magical about this room there. And we could move to a different bigger space. But that kind of defeats the idea of it. So so we want to keep making it, you know, something that people want to come to. And hopefully, if you miss out on one show, you want to come to the next one. And there's always different performers. And you know, I think it's good to have, there's a variety there. But you get to it's one person at a time sharing that story. So

Sonia Nolan: 37:11

it sounds amazing, I'm going to get to one, I keep seeing it come up to you know, sort of advertised on my Facebook feed. And I think I've just got to do it, I'm going to come along one of those nights, because they just sound incredibly magical. And and again, coming back to this need for intimacy and this need for connection and this small, you know, I think we're more comfortable given you know, what's happened in the last few years, I think we're more comfortable with just a smaller group rather than a larger group. Yes. And so I just think you This is just your time, Helen, this is all just sort of converging into being so reflective of who you are as a performer, how you can actually share your gifts and talents and your songwriting, and create something that people are actually wanting to connect with in a forum that they're comfortable being in. So I just think it just ticks all the boxes.

Helen Shanahan: 38:01

Thank you, Sonia. Well, you will be a VIP. Anytime you want to come here

Sonia Nolan: 38:06

how to make that happen, for sure for sure. Helen, I've got a few short and sweet questions and answers for us around which is specific to my warm table. I want to know who sat around your table as you were growing up.

Helen Shanahan: 38:26

So that would be my entire family. So that would be my mom, my dad and my two sisters. Up until for 16 years that was us around the table until my brother came along as a beautiful gift to our family when I was in Year 11. So there my younger brother would join us as well. So yeah, that's a Shanahan family.

Sonia Nolan: 38:50

Family clan. And I remember you and your first album you've actually got a song about your little brother having

Helen Shanahan: 38:55

you Yes, it's called Little boy and I did write that run while hearing his dulcet tones in the middle of the night.

Sonia Nolan: 39:03

screechie Yeah, and I remember loving that song and loving that song. Some some wisdom or phrases, you know that when you were sitting around the table there any words of wisdom, and I know your mom and dad, and I'm sure there were some words of wisdom that were imparted that that guided you then and still guide you today.

Helen Shanahan: 39:22

Well, my dad always said what was the best thing that happened to you today when we were gathered around the table at the dinner table? Because I think they always tried to foster you know, positivity. And especially when I was kind of maybe down about a lot of things. You know, they were always trying to look for the positives in life. So that that I think my dad's way of trying to get us to think about you know, what was the best thing that happened to me. It's trying to think about the positives.

Sonia Nolan: 39:52

And do you think that you're going to take that forward around your table when you well you've got a table that you're sitting around with Matt and I'm sure there's probably The it's probably a bit messier with Bannie, that moment.

Helen Shanahan: 40:03

It is. But absolutely, I really do want to incorporate that. So thank you Dad, love you dad.

Sonia Nolan: 40:10

And is there a food memory or recipe that you'd like to share from your table? Two hours?

Helen Shanahan: 40:16

Well, I thought long and hard about this, Sonia. And this is not really a dinner recipe. This is actually a dessert. And it's a very, I had a near four of all years. And we had to all contribute a recipe to this book. And one of them was a chocolate chip cookie recipe. And I know it sounds like you're an average thing. But this recipe, I could describe it as a hug in a cookie. Fine. It's literally I've got the recipe here. I don't I can't, I don't have to say it out loud. Maybe we'll put it in the show, the show notes. But I've been making these cookies since we got this in pre primary and I make it these cookies for all my school friends. I made it for my family. And if anyone's going through a hard time or anything, I always baked a bunch of these cookies, and we'll deliver it to their doorstep. So it's a and my mom's actually got this cookie recipe. She's actually surpassed my recipe now. So mom, I need to get your advice, but

Sonia Nolan: 41:23

I love it. Oh, I can't wait to make it and taste and they found divine. You've mentioned the beautiful Bonnie. So she's about 18 months now.

Helen Shanahan: 41:30

Yeah, well, she's she's 17 and 17 months approaching 18.

Sonia Nolan: 41:35

Yeah, and, and that's exactly what early mothers need to know is that exact sort of milestone. Every month is different. They change so quickly. Really do which is just beautiful. But do you think motherhood has changed the way you write? I'm sure you write in 45 minutes sleep cycles now.

Helen Shanahan: 41:55

Yes, the main thing is the time for sure.

Sonia Nolan: 41:58

But has it changed some of the I don't know, I felt when I had children that it opened up new chambers in my heart. That's the only way that I can describe it. But you know, do you feel that it's unlocked anything more that you want to express in your writing?

Helen Shanahan: 42:12

I think it's made me want to be a more positive force. And it's because I feel like with my last album, I did delve into a lot of parts of me that I guess Mom could say negative thoughts and feeling low self esteem, low self worth. And having Bonnie's made me want to just have more self esteem, basically and to teach her because my husband always says what are you going to? Don't talk down about yourself? What are you showing to Bonnie in that way? So it's made me think, okay, I need to relook at how I'm talking to myself. And that includes through song as well. So I think it's made me not that all my songs are gonna be really 100%

Sonia Nolan: 43:03

into Patsy Cline.

Helen Shanahan: 43:06

I could never I could never, you know, and if there is something that draws a songwriter into more, you know, sorrowful songs, but you know, it's just made me just more it's more about this self talk and and whether or not that's going to come through in my songwriting, I'm not so sure. But I hope it will. And I just want to be the best version of myself, I guess, to be show a good example for Bonnie and I'd hate her to have the low self worth that I did have. So

Sonia Nolan: 43:36

that's so powerful Helen, it really is and that we are our own worst critic critics. Yes. And I often say to my, my other friends, and I'm just going to say it to you to Helen is that don't talk to my friend Helen, like, you know, because you wouldn't talk to anyone else in the way that we talk to ourselves sometimes exact. So it's really important that we are our own best friend in many times, so I can hear that in what you're wanting to achieve and such a great mission to do that. And what a great reason with Bonnie exactly

Helen Shanahan: 44:07

as she is a positive light in my life, that's for sure.

Sonia Nolan: 44:11

What I've loved seeing is because you take her along to most of your gigs. And so you will often see on Helens social media, this backstage sort of behind the scenes where you've got this beautiful little chair with these pink headphones on. How does she go with them with the concert?

Helen Shanahan: 44:29

Well, she, I mean, I don't know exactly . But she's always from the get go. We've she's been around music and that's just because my husband Matt is also a singer. But you know, even when I was doing you know at three months old when I was learning all these backing vocals, she had all this music she and Matt would play her a variety of songs. He would try and play her my songs. And in fact, Driftwood I think I gave myself you know,$3 from Spotify or so just from just continuously she was listening to it. And so she does love it and is calmed by it. And she goes into a trance like state, so I was still breastfeeding, and she would not take the bottle. So that was a big reason why she was at my gigs as

Sonia Nolan: 45:23

well. She wasn't just your biggest fan or she was your biggest fan,

Helen Shanahan: 45:26

she needed sustenance. And I was the only way she was gonna get that. And she was very stubborn about that. So you know that I was feeding her in all sorts of places. And she was like, how is she going to go at the gig, but she would just look and and she was going into a trap. She was like, amazing how that just soothed her on that level. So in the early days, I don't know what that will continue on as she grows, but certainly in the early months, and now she definitely it's like she goes into another word. She just sits and listens to it. So that's amazing.

Sonia Nolan: 46:06

Well, I think what's amazing, Helen is just your storytelling there about the fact that you're performing Bonnie's little, and she's backstage, so she's with you all the time you're performing and breastfeeding and you're overtired. And, I mean, you're just an incredible woman, Helen, you are just living your dream and your passion and doing what is so natural to you, which is you know, performing, you've maintained your independence. And that's something I really want to talk about, too, is that you've had offers from record companies to join them. And and one thing that you've been really determined about is to maintain your independence. Can you tell us about that?

Helen Shanahan: 46:47

Well, I think, in this day and age, actually having a record deal is not as enticing as it once was. It's the landscape has totally changed for musicians back maybe in the 90s, if you had a record deal, you were you know, you'd be everywhere. But these days if you sign, and this is not always the case. So please don't get me wrong, if I don't want to deter anyone, but you sign away, so much of who you are, you sign away your ability to know, for instance, when that song will be released, your the timeline is no longer under your control, your image is, you know, determined by not just you by a lot of people. And for me, I have never been someone that's, you know, really described as cool or you know, that that's just for someone to try and get me to be that way. It just wouldn't be authentic. And if I was to go on to maybe sell a bunch of records, just because I'm then looked or sounded or acted a certain way, I wouldn't be following through with my authentic life. And maybe, you know, I'm not selling a million records, but I know that I've remained true to who I am, I own everything. I control the timeline, I control how I look and how I talk. And even though, you know, I definitely require help in a lot of the ways that a record company would assist, you know, I'm not saying I don't need help in that regard. But you know, I can choose who to work with, and I can choose that. And, you know, I think that is the difference. And also, the money side of things is, you know, you may be, you know, there may pay for everything, but you eventually have to pay that all back. And I'm, you know, trying to find my own way. So, you know, there's a lot of reasons why, you know, you would have to be the exact right company to come along to offer you everything in that regard. So, yeah, it's a different world for sure.

Sonia Nolan: 49:03

Yeah, it was really sounds like but it sounds so empowering the way that you're doing it, because you are remaining very, very true to who you are.

Helen Shanahan: 49:11

Yes, exactly. That's right. And it's it's I'm so grateful to my support network. And Sonya you especially and for all your listeners Sonia has been with me she helped me with my very first EP in 2009 with my PR needs and she's been a constant encouragement and support to me. And I just want to thank you and please do not edit this.

Sonia Nolan: 49:37

Thought did cross my mind do not do

Helen Shanahan: 49:39

that. Because it's people like you that make me think I can keep doing it independently and I'm very very lucky in that regard.

Sonia Nolan: 49:52

Have you got a favourite? That's actually a question I did want to ask. It's probably not asking have you got a favourite child which currently you do because you've only got one Barney, but you know, do you You have a favourite song

Helen Shanahan: 50:02

you told me to think about this and it is very hard I think the one that I keep coming back to is because I got to co write this song with one of my favourite songwriters Kim Ricci and it is a song I like to finish my set on and I get the crowd to actually join in so it's called finding gold and I think that actually sums up a lot of my just my message which is even though there will be moments of hardship we can always find a moment of gold you know that nothing is ever going to be that bad that you can't find like a glimmer of hope and so I think that song definitely is special to me in that way

Music: Finding Gold by Helen Shanahan: 50:56

it feels easy place to sleep voices whisper make the the ship in stone my soul shaft left out in the hockey fighting between the window where the share was from before dish stole my soul shaft left out in the key finding gold. I'll keep finding gold...

Sonia Nolan: 52:35

Helen, I think that that is a great way to end our discussion today. It has been an absolute privilege to have you come over and to see you again. And I thank you so much and wish you the very, very best and I can't speak more highly about what you're doing and how you're doing it and the energy and inspiration you give to others to be their authentic self and to really let that creative spirit shine.

Helen Shanahan: 53:02

Thank you so much, Sonia.

Sonia Nolan: 53:08

You've been listening to my warm table with Sonia Nolan. In Italian a tavola calda is a warm and welcoming table where you can share big ideas, friendship, laughter in life. So much happens around the kitchen table and I wanted to amplify it here in this podcast. My aim is to feed your mind and soul through smart conversations with heart. No topic is off limits for good table manners rule. I hope you'll join us each week because we set the table for my extraordinary guests who will let you feast on their deep knowledge, life experiences and wise insights. Let's keep the conversation flowing. Please subscribe to the my warm table podcast and share it with your friends and networks. Perhaps if they are new to podcasting, take a moment to show them how to download and subscribe so they don't miss an episode either. I'd also love you to join our community on Facebook. You'll find the group at my warm table podcast. Your support is very much appreciated.