Reinventing Work and Life Around Your Values - with Gaurav Gandhi

What if your impressive job on paper is not aligned with your life and values? We sit down with career transition mentor and author Gaurav Gandhi to unpack how reinvention really works across countries, roles, and life stages, and how not to lose yourself in the process. From a two-decade run at the Tata Group and global postings in Germany and Canada to building a portfolio career in Austria, Gaurav shows how to pivot with purpose by anchoring to values, not vanity metrics.

We dig into the reality of moving abroad: your title and network don’t travel with you, but your skills and your mindset do. Gaurav talks about family and how career becomes a team game at home, sharing candid stories about shifting roles so his wife could pursue a demanding career path at the UN.

If you’ve ever felt torn between money, impact, and expression, you’ll love listening to Gaurav's story. Along the way, we talk meaning, parenting, serendipity, and why coherence between your values, your calendar, and your relationships quietly produces happiness.

If this conversation sparks a shift, share it with a friend, and subscribe for more thoughtful stories.

To learn more about Gaurav's work you can get in touch with him on LinkedIn, check out his mentoring page on Topmate, and find out more about his book Career Heist.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Gaurav!

Transcript

Meet Gaurav Gandhi And His Mission

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Hi there, welcome to the test pilot show. I'm your host Gabriella and together with my guests we explore how to navigate a life, what really matters, and how we can automate a life that we actually enjoy. Come and join us. In this episode, I'm talking to Gaurav Gandhi, career transition mentor and co-author of Career High. A former global innovation leader, Gloravna helps mid-career professionals slow down, think clearly, and make intentional career choices aligned with their life context. Here we're talking about how people can reinvent themselves, why it's important to know your values, and of course, the deeper questions in life. Enjoy. It's a pleasure to have you on the show, Garav. Thanks for joining us. So tell me a little bit more about yourself. What is it that you do and what is your story?

Early Life And Education Drive

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Thank you, Gabriella. Um, I first of all uh really appreciate the invite on this Chess Pulk podcast. I've been appreciative of the work which you are doing and bringing out uh stories of people, especially who have moved and are doing international tradition. So I really appreciate that. To start with um giving about my background, I grew up in a small town in the northern part of India in middle class family in the 1980s, and the family valued the importance of education. To give you a small instant, I used to travel to a nearby town when I was six years old to study in a good English medium school because my town didn't have any English medium school, and the nearby town was almost 30 kilometers away.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

So I had to make this travel every day. My father would drive a scooter, drop me at the local bus station five o'clock in the morning so that I could catch the bus and reach my school in time by seven.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

This was at the age of six.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

This was at the age of six, yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

So after a few years, uh I shifted to a boarding school um in in another town and eventually finished up my school studies. And typically in in late 90s in India, the job opportunity was in the field of engineering and mainly in IT and computer science. So that's what I pursued. I finished my computer engineering in the early 2000s and landed up a campus job at one of the top uh IT services companies in India. And that's how my journey in the professional world started.

Tata Years And Global Postings

SPEAKER_02 3:01

But you have quite an international career and a really brilliant career. You were with the Tata group for a long time. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. I think I've been uh very lucky in terms of the opportunities which I got right from the college. So I got my job at the Tata Group, one of the most prestigious groups and companies in India and worldwide in early 2000s. And uh to give you an instant, my training, my job started with a three-month residential training, and this was in the southern part of India, almost 3,000 kilometers away from my home. We had a train journey, I still remember, of almost 52 hours just to reach the place. And it was a very, very um, you know, um open environment, very culturally diverse because there were uh early graduates from across India, almost 26 states, 700 of us uh where we started. I got my posting in Mumbai, very, very big shock for me, coming from a very small town with a population of 20,000 to moving to a metropolis with probably 10 million. So you can imagine the shock. And from there, um, I started my career with a very large Fortune 500 company, uh, which we were servicing from uh TATAS Consultancy Services, the IT arm of TATAS, and I got a posting in Germany after just two and a half years. Again, a big cultural shock, but uh great opportunity for me to go to a different country and learn the culture, understand the dynamics. After a few years, I came back to India and then got my another posting in Canada. So that was North America again for this Fortune 500 financial services company, but a different setup, different role, and different responsibility. And from there I got back. So two international posting and a couple of pivots from IT to HR to innovation and research, and then eventually uh almost 19 to 20 years it taught us before I moved to Austria about two and a half years back.

How To Build An International Career

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Okay. So I wonder uh this is a really international career. What advice would you give to somebody who aspires to such an international career? What to do or what not to do?

Handling The Confidence Dip Abroad

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah, that's a great question. I think um international careers are different in the sense it makes you more humble, the first thing I would say. Yeah. Why? Because typically your title doesn't travel with you. So what I was doing, say in India, and I go to Germany or Canada and Austria, my title wouldn't travel with me, right? Because I would be doing something else. My network would not travel with me. What would remain with me is my skills. My context also changes. So maybe what I was doing in a very wonderful way in my own country because of the context would not be possible in an international setup. So international movement or career is about reinventing. That's what I realized. It's about translating who you are into a new ecosystem. What that means in terms of action, first rebuilding your network, learning cultural cues, because each culture is different and you have to integrate in order to successfully get opportunities, and often accepting a temporary dip in confidence, uh, which is absolutely fine. So the biggest shift for me, or the advice I would give to someone who is looking at international movement or career, is instead of asking what role I deserve, one should ask what problem can I solve in the new context, in the new country, in the new culture. And this mindset change makes uh you know reinvention possible. And even I will say exciting.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Oh, I love that. And I'd like to go back to the uh temporary dip in confidence. Can you talk about this a little bit more? Because I think this could come as a shock to some people who had a you know a brilliant career, they were respected, and then suddenly there is a dip in confidence that they are not used to how to navigate that successfully.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Absolutely. Absolutely. No, I think that's a great point, which uh um you asked, Gabriella. And the reason is why the confidence tips is typically if I talk from a company's context, say you are working with a company, you know the context, you know the people, you have a role, right? And then you move countries because of personal reasons, because of family reasons. What happens is that company, the context on the brand is gone. So there it has to be, we have a very strong attachment of our identity to the brand or a company or the place which we work with. And when that is gone, we don't have the validation or the comfort of people, of familiar teams, of familiar environment. So that is bound to have an impact on the confidence. Uh when I came to Austria, especially, I didn't had any network. I almost knew no one. And when you go to a networking event or meet new people, you start from ground zero, right? Because if you say I worked in X, Y, Z organization in ABC role, often if you're moving across the continent, as in my case from Asia to Europe, most of them didn't even know that what was my company, right? Yeah the name of the company. So all this contributes to a dip in confidence. You have to take in in stride, I would say, and not feel too much attached to your older identity of your brand and reinvent. I think that's the only way to stay grounded and you know move forward.

Reinvention Across IT, HR, And Innovation

SPEAKER_02 10:22

So how do you reinvent yourself successfully? I think this is not so easy, is it?

Designing A Portfolio Career In Austria

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Absolutely, absolutely. It's it's I think it's I'm still on the process if I would share my experience, and it is really humbling, I would say, reinventing ourselves. Um, but I would go a little back on that, right, just to connect the dots. So I worked in my previous organization for almost two decades, but I didn't work in one single role. I started my career in IT and worked in information technology for almost 10 years. And then I realized I need to reinvent myself. Reason was I had a son, I had um uh working spouse, and with the commitments of the job, I was not able to give time to my family. Even though I used to share with my spouse that family is my top priority, but it was not reflecting in my action. So I thought I did my executive program management, meanwhile, while working in organization, I and I wanted to reinvent myself. And I think about 12 years back, I went to a university event from my organization where we were doing hiring of uh university students, and this really excited me because these were students from tier two, tier three towns, smaller towns in India, they didn't have a guidance. And I thought if I can contribute in something like this, that would really make me happy, give me an opportunity to learn a new skill and contribute. So I moved to HR and starting managing academic partnerships for close to 100 universities in five states in India. Completely new role, moving from IT, where I was, I had a team of 30 plus people, to becoming an individual contributor. So that was the first reinvention I did almost 12 years back. The second reinvention came when I moved in the same path and moved from HR to research and innovation. This was reinvention because after working in my previous role, I realized that what can I do more in terms of providing value. So I was working with in my previous role with students, with faculties, with head of departments, with rectors, with uh with directors of the universities, managing internships, organizing technical events, workshops, uh, industry projects, and so on. So I moved to research and innovation, doing the same thing, but with a different set of universities. And along that added the startup collaboration. So that was a second reinvention which I did. The learning curve was steep, but I think reinvention is what I personally feel is an opportunity to bring new skill sets together in our life and make our life, I would say, more exciting. Uh, and the third reinvention which I did is when I moved to uh Austria. By the time I also started learning new skills like more of self-reflection, grounding practices like meditation, journaling, uh, something like doodling. I tried on a creative side, writing, mentoring, and coaching. So I said, how can I integrate this in my new skill set and reinvent myself again? So this led me to design my portfolio, what I called a portfolio career with mentoring, advising startup and universities, writing my book and ecosystem building. So that's the third reinvention uh which happened.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Oh, I love it. I'd love to hear more about your book, Career Heist. What sparked the idea to write this?

Writing Career Heist

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, absolutely. I think I am a bibliophile, I love reading books. I used to go to a lot of literary events in India. Uh, Tata Literature Live was one of the biggest, which happens in Mumbai every year. And I used to meet so many authors, uh, read to listen to their talks. And when I used to read books and write about their summaries also on LinkedIn, my wife used to, you know, ask me, okay, when are you writing your book? When is your book coming out? You have re-read so many, you talk to so many people, you help or mentor so many people. So that was, of course, one of the triggers. But the second trigger which I saw that is while I nurtured my both uh mentoring and coaching uh practices, I realized a lot of mid-career, early career professionals were coming to me for advice or guidance. That was the second thing. The third thing I saw was the career journey, which probably a generation before us had, which was very linear in nature. Which means you start a job, say you start a job in a college or a company, and maybe after 30, 35 years you retire from the same place. That linear career journey is no longer true, right? And with every day, we see the changing reality in the field of career. One, and there are multiple reasons. One is, of course, geopolitical, second is you know, economic, third is technology, like AI. So things are changing very, very fast, which means I realize that people need a playbook on how do I redesign my career? How do I make career change? How do I make career transition? So that's how the career high school, my book was born.

Serendipity And The Three Co‑Authors

SPEAKER_02 16:53

I love that. And uh am I right? Do I remember well that uh it was serendipity that uh brought the authors together at an airport? Is that the story? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. That's the story, and the interesting part is all three authors are from different backgrounds. So Apur, he is a serial entrepreneur, he has founded two startups, he also has a very international career. He studied in South Africa and then worked in, of course, uh Europe, you know, and now working with young people on developing their entrepreneurial and startup and technology skills. So he brings a different perspective. Lo Chen, the second co-author, she worked in the corporate sector, and now she runs her own company. She's a leadership and executive coach and does both learning and development courses. And I worked in a single corporate. So all three of us, uh the three co-authors, brought a very different lens to career. We didn't have one biased lens that this is the only true way how a career has to be led, but we brought very different views, and that I think diversity brought that richness into our book in terms of insight, tips, worksheets, interviews, and frameworks.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

But I love the story of how you just met at the airport, and it really highlights how opportunities can be anywhere and everywhere. You just need to open your eyes and be open to talking to people and uh to see where the conversations go.

Openness, Giving Back, And Luck

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Absolutely. And I think I uh very, very strongly believe in what you just said, which is serendipity, being curious, being open, and also starting with a beginner mindset and giving back what you have as a skill, as a network, as a knowledge. And once you do that, I think a lot of doors open up. I've seen that in the form of book. I've seen that in opportunities which I received in Vienna, including meeting you and in an event. I still remember tech to um you know, impact event where we met uh and Alex introduced us. So there are so many things which which happens if we are open to opportunities and not stuck to a certain way or a process or I would say uh outcome.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah, that's great. I'd love to ask you, parenthood is something that uh uh is an important topic to me. And you mentioned that uh it was when you realized that you family you couldn't spend as much time as you would have liked. And uh I know you moved to Vienna because of your wife's uh career. What advice would you give to a father who is thinking about making this decision, perhaps stepping back or letting the wife uh take over so her career can uh flourish as well? Is there any advice you would give to someone like that?

Fatherhood, Trade‑Offs, And Team Careers

Redefining Roles At Home

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Absolutely, I think it's a great question, uh often asked from me, uh, because even from Indian context, this is absolutely unusual that us spouse, especially husband, doing that. So I will break it into two parts. The first thing which you asked about fatherhood. As a parent, I realized, Gabriella, that in 2014, and I made my pivot, almost for 10 years in my career, I used to come home at 11 p.m. every day. So I would hardly get to see my son. And that was because my client was in the US and Europe, and I had working hours from 12 to 9 p.m. But that disturbed a lot of things in my personal life, in my family life, especially. So I couldn't spend that time. And I realized that if I'm saying from a values perspective, family is one of my top priorities, but in action, that is not reflecting because I'm just saying that and not devoting time to um say my son or my spouse or even contributing to vow towards household you know activities or work or shared responsibilities and so on. So I consciously reflected and made that pivot. So then my timing changed from 9 to 5. I would be home and then I would spend more time with my uh both the elder and now the second son, the younger. Understand, which I fully took responsibility. And my wife would often joke that you say, you are helping, but that doesn't mean anything. You're not helping. You are equally responsible or partner or a parent. And this took me years to realize, especially I'm coming from a very innum context where uh especially a male member or a husband, even if he enters the kitchen and and you know gets you a glass of water, that is considered to be a great help. So I was in that mode. And it took me years to change from that mode to owning the responsibility. Okay, I own this, which is say my son is sick, then my wife has an important meeting, then I would take leave or take care of him, or take him to school, or drop him to his activities and so on. So that was the first part I realized, and I think one has to consciously do that. Why? And that's my second point when you said when I moved from my wife's career to uh Austria is if both the partners are working in some or the other way, I say it is a team game. A career is a teen game, it's not a solo game, which means, and I'll give you another example. 2011, my wife had an opportunity to pursue a fully funded master's program in South Korea. They used to select only one person from a country. She was selected that year. It was a tough decision. Why? Because we had a five-year-old son and I was working full-time. And we were wondering what to do. I s and she said, there's no way I could take that, so forget it. I mean, it's okay. I said, no, we will figure out something. Um fortunately, my in-laws came for help. They were very, very generous. So my son stayed with them for two years. I took an assignment to Canada, and my wife was in South Korea. Oh wow. So she pursued a fully funded master's program, which she topped, had participants from over 15 countries. Uh, she stayed in South Korea. I stayed in Canada doing my role and had international assignments when my son stayed in India. He made occasional visit. We got together back after two years. But what eventually changed Gabriella was this master's degree led her to the role which she had today at the UN. So after 10 years, the fruit of this, you know, effort uh reap benefits, and uh she had an opportunity to do a really impactful role uh currently. So we care, that's why I said is a team game. At some point of time, one partner would have more opportunities, the other has to make way. It cannot that there's only one partner. This my my personal belief is making compromises or taking trade-offs, right? It can also work out both ways, and then it will not be one plus one equal to two, it would be one plus one is eleven. That's how I see, or we see me and my spouse as career.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Wow. This is like a masterclass in marriage. I I love this story, how uh you make room for the success of uh your wife. My uh previous guest on the podcast uh was also uh talking about this, how um the wife wanted to uh have the career opportunity, and then he took a step back after uh a corporate career, and how this is still not very common. But uh but I think that it's uh in the 21st century when women also are you know educated, we want to work, this has to become kind of the norm, but there is still a long way to go, I think, until we get there as a society, that this is normalized.

Rethinking Career: Money, Impact, Expression

Daily Rituals For Joint Reflection

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah, absolutely. I would like to add, and I think you you clearly brought out this point that this has to become a norm. I mean, as a gender, for example, and I would say I'm still learning on this path, and uh it took me probably more than a decade to realize that how biased or stereotyped I was about it starts with household work, right? So even if the wife is working in many contexts or cultures, she's still supposed to take the major responsibility at home, which might be cooking, cleaning, grocery, or kids, right? And the career cannot flourish if the husband is not owning that piece, right? Or at least the shared peace which they have discussed and agreed on. I had to, you know, do a lot of inner work, I would say, uh, to get there. I'm still learning. But I think when we moved to Austria, the first very conscious decision which uh we took as a family is I said, you don't have to do anything at home, or you don't have to worry. You can do whatever you want, whenever you want, but I will own everything. And the reason was because she had a very, very demanding role, you know, managing a treaty, the UN, managing hundreds of countries, uh, traveling, and with kids changing school, fee changing, you know, houses, culture, language, it would have been too much overwhelming for us as a family. So one has to step uh down from the paddle and reflect. And I think for that, an inner work and a reflection or pause is required, Gabriella. I think many of us don't either take that pause or don't have the opportunity, and that's why we feel what has happened. I had a flourishing career, but it all stopped. I would say, I would look at differently. I would say it has not stopped. It has maybe become more richer, or maybe it has gone into a different direction. I refer to a book, a very interesting book called Design Your Work Life. It is by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans, who are the founder of Stanford Design School, and they said typically we can look at our work in three areas. One is money, second is impact, and third is expression. Like money is easy to measure quantitatively. I'm earning X, so I'm I'm doing great in Majva. But there is also impact and expression. So in my case, I pivoted from the first bucket to more about impact and expression in my current reinvention or career pivot. So I started going to my kids' school, and then I took up a voluntary role as a leader of culture club for the school parent teachers, parent association, which was very enriching in terms of expression and impact because I could make so many international experts engaged in a city like Vienna. Then I started taking other mentoring roles at Professional Women Network or Technical University, Vienna for startups or University of Vienna for UC programs. So this is all about impact and expression. So one has to rethink a career, especially I'm talking about husbands, not only from money's perspective, but the other areas too. And that's how I think both partners can, you know, flourish.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

So, yeah, the key words that I heard was a conscious decision and uh reflection and to design uh a life that suits you as a couple and as a professional.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Absolutely, absolutely, and I think each design is very uh individualized or custom, we cannot copy someone else's design because our life context are different, right? Yeah, for example, what I value or me and my wife values may be different from what you and your spouse or your kid value, right? So if we understand our values, have that discussion and be conscious, then we can take this call. I will share some inputs on how we could do that. One of the reasons is we as a couple do a lot of activities together almost on a daily basis. So, one, we spend time after my wife's work at the gym. And this is a time for us to reflect on the day. What went well, what didn't went well, what could we do together to make it better?

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah.

Remove Before You Add: Attention And Screens

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Then there is walk. I think it's a very small activity, but I think very powerful if you take long walks, right, with your spouse and also maybe with your kid. It's a good reflection time to step away from the daily Asad Basal and think, what can you do together which will make things better? And also to reflect on our values, what things we value. For example, we value travel, but we don't value materialistic things as such, you know, something to show off to the world. Like that, that's not at least our value. So we realize that we have to live by our values, which means if I say my values is to give more time to my kid, then I have to ensure that he has his football kit packed, he reaches school on time, if he has a concert or an activity, either one of us is present, right? So I'm living by my values, but for that, I have to basically reflect and discuss on that on a regular basis. That's one. Uh the second thing. The third thing is at least I journal on a daily basis, and then I reflect it once in a while, once in a month or once in a quarter, along with my spouse. This is what is happening, this is going well in our life, this is something which we can do better. It's more of a conversation or a dialogue rather than I would say uh come on and control kind of stuff. So you mutually agree and see where we can meet in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

But I think this is a very important point that so many people and and couples kind of just drift along uh and they feel out of control of their lives. And and you can sometimes pause and reflect and and see, am I on the right path? Is this leading to where I want to go? I think there is that is really powerful. And I know you do the birthday reflection. Uh, I like to do a birthday reflection once a year. I think this is a great opportunity to really see like a big picture. Is my life heading in a way that I like? What do I need to change? Um, I think this is a wonderful habit.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Absolutely. And I think to change the course of our lives, there are a few things, at least I realize from my experience, and I realize as experience from our family, is a lot of things we say we need to add to our life. That's one thing, say a good practice of you know eating healthy, maybe exercising, maybe journaling, maybe meditation, maybe yoga, maybe uh learning a new skill. But there's another aspect which many of us probably ignore, is what we should reduce or remove from our lives.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

For example, one of the main challenges uh which not only adults or couples are facing, but also kids is the lack of focus or uh reduced attention span. And where is that coming from? That is coming from increased use of media or more time spent on maybe a mobile phone, maybe a laptop, maybe screen. Now, this has a very big downstream impact on everything. Our relationships, our work, our interaction with others and ourselves. So this has to be removed. And this also is an important aspect of not only to add new practices, but what can be removed. I realized while tracking from digital well-being app that I was spending slightly more time on these apps or online, and I consciously has to reduce it when I did the reflection, and I realized how positive that was because when I removed it, a lot of other three things got streamlined.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Yeah, this is a great point. I talked to my son, he's uh 13 now, and uh he's you know he's consuming a lot of short-form content. And I say to him, you know, be careful with that, because in 10 years' time, uh focus is going to be a really precious skill. And I I think there's gonna be a big gap between people who can focus and who cannot. And uh when I explain it this way, he understands better than if I say, Don't be on TikTok so much, you know, because then you explain why. And uh yeah, focus is uh I don't think we uh we really appreciate the impact this is going to have uh in the coming decades.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Absolutely, and that's why they say, and I strongly believe attention is gold.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

If you have someone's attention or if you are focused or attentive, you have something very, very precious.

What Truly Matters: Relationships, Health, Meaning

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

All right, let's move on to the deeper questions in life. What are the things that truly matter in life, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

I think there are a lot of things which we feel um matters in life, but for me, a few things which are on top are the first relationship with my family, my spouse, my kids, my relationship with myself, my own, my friends, family. Because if you read the research, and which is the the Howard's longest longitudinal study on happiness, I think the outcome was what matters most in life is a relationship that has the biggest impact on one's happiness. Yeah. So that's the first thing. Second is health. And me and my wife were um, you know, when we go to the gym at least three times a week, we try to do that, and then she does some other uh classes like Zumba or I do walking, and we said, you know, the impact of this would be felt more in next 10 years than an immediate one, right? Yeah because your energy and other things which require uh which are required from you to focus on your work and other aspect of life are all coming from health. We only have one body. So the health is very closely connected uh to uh awareness. What we eat, what we don't eat, what we do, we can do it better if we are more aware. So relationship, health, and the third, what matters to me most in life is meaning. So why am I doing what am I doing? That's the meaning part. So these are three things I would say which matters most to me, life.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Oh, I love that, especially the meaning.

Finding Meaning Through Experiments

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Yeah. How can people find meaning? That's that's a deeper question, as you said. How can people find meaning? And meaning or purpose, and it's not like you wake up one day and the light and there is a light called moment and you found meaning, right? For me, that has been a constant um you know cycle of discovery where you try new things, you experiment and then you see which of the things align with your value system. And if you see some, then go deeper. And this is where you find something which is more meaningful and purposeful to you, because for every one this is different, right? For me, helping others, nurturing a community, seeing how I can create value, uh, how can I help people in their careers or in life, they are all meaningful pursuits, but they didn't came immediately where I started, say 20 years back in my corporate career, was a software engineer or IT engineer. Okay, I wanted to move up the ladder, became probably a manager or maybe a director. But I realized that I had to get off that treadmill because that's not aligning to my values. I couldn't see any of those managers or people happy in their personal or professional life, but they were all gloomy and you know, stressed, and and they had you know things which I couldn't see myself being in. So for me, a meaning got discovered as I did a lot of new things and realized which of them is aligning with my values, and double down on that.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

What are the most important lessons you have learned in life?

SPEAKER_00 41:12

I think one lesson is that that no we often see that we need clarity to move forward. We often feel that we need clarity. I personally believe that the direction matters more than that, right? Um which means that for us to design our life, you know, we need to optimize for meaning. We just started with meaning before that, right? So I have to design a life which I want to live, which is aligned to my values. How do I do that? I need to optimize for meaning, which finally means that I need to work on things which are aligning with my values, and this is the more important thing. This is my North Star. So for example, I'll do 10 things and then I realize these three are not aligning with my values. This is not creating meaning for me. So I have to let that thing go.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

This is a very important lesson which I've learned in my life. And to add to it, learning never stops. I think this is becoming more relevant, Gabriela, now, because without learning, without reinventing, we cannot move forward. We have to learn when we change countries, when we change context, when we change organizations, right? Uh when we have different life stages. Say your son is now is a teen, and my and the one is becoming a teen. I have a teen who already started college last year. So again, learning how to deal with that. So learning is again a very important aspect of lesson which I learned.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Yeah, and and to be humble enough to to know that you have to learn and you have to change, no? I think especially with kids when it's a new stage coming up, that what worked up until now is not going to work moving forward, and then you have to you have to be hum humble enough to realize that uh okay, I have some learning to do.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Absolutely. I would just add to it, I had a really difficult time dealing with that because I was dealing dealing as a parent wearing the same hat which say my father or my mother had, you know, 30, 40 years back, right? And I realized I To unlearn all of that, that style of parenting, that way of you know dealing with my kid no longer works. So I had to learn everything again. And it requires, of course, a lot of effort, but I think it's also very fulfilling in long term. If we can learn and change things, especially on relationship front, work front, it is really fulfilling.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

What advice would you give to the younger generations?

Advice To Students And First Draft Careers

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah, great question. I remember I did a program with University of Business and Economics here in Vienna, and there was a group of students coming from the University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign, the US. They have an exchange program with University of Business and Economics running for the last 50 years. All very smart, very confident kids studying different courses in undergrad and college. Yeah. And they had something similar as a question. And I tell them a few things. First, don't treat your first job as your identity. Don't treat your first course which you took in the college as your only identity. This is very, very important because a lot of people are stuck. Okay, I've studied law, I've studied health, I have studied IT, I've studied engineering, I've studied X, Y, Z, and hence I need to do this all my life. Like this creates a lot of challenge because when you are 16, 17, or 18, you start doing something because that's the context, your family has advised, your friends are doing that, and then you realize you are not a good fit. So don't treat your job or a course as your identity. Treat it as your first draft. That's the first thing. Adding to that, build skills that continues or travels with you, right? And these are skills which are really transferable. This is problem solving, communication, and the third very important one: learning how to learn. Again connects to our previous point that learning is a very important lesson which all of us has in our life. So learning how to learn. So this will be my device.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

What habit or daily routine has been the most helpful to you?

Morning Practices: Meditation And Journaling

SPEAKER_00 47:22

I think at least for the last eight years, when I wake up, my habit or daily routines I start with lukewarm water with uh a bit of lemon and honey. I basically make my body feel relaxed. And then I spend time, ten minutes I spend time meditating on an app that I use waking up. One can use any other app also. It helps me respond, become more focused and centered. And after that, I do five minutes of journaling, typically a gratitude or reflection, or sometimes a brain done. So the the journaling and the meditation are two practices which which has been very, very helpful to me, I think, for last seven, eight years. I often reflect on what I wrote and probably uh meditation helps me stay in the present or become more aware of where I am and what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

What is the best way to overcome difficulties or hardship?

Facing Hardship And Seeing The Long View

SPEAKER_00 48:47

I think a lot of time we tend to fix something is coming up, say as a hardship, right? One way to deal it with differently is to sit with it long enough to understand where it is coming from, right? For example, for me, the challenge was when I took up the role of a primary caretaker at home in Vienna, it was a hard, really difficult, right? Because I've never done that as a whole, maybe a small part of that, but then from cooking to cleaning to grocery to managing kids and you know going to the school, everything, it felt really hard. But then when I think sat with it and reflected, why am I doing what am I doing? Is again connected to the point which I said. Uh, career is a team game. So my spouse is doing something great, which is doing wonderful for her career, but also doing good for the world in the terms of her role, which makes me realize that this is a temporary period. I can learn and I can excel in that. It's not an issue, it's more of a mindset. The second thing is to deal with difficulty, is most difficulties feel permanent, but they are not so. Every difficulty is a temporary phase. For example, I gave you an instance of when my son was in India, my wife was in South Korea, and I was in Canada. It was hard, very hard period, but we knew that this is temporary. This is for a period, and the effect or the outcome or the reward of this would surely be exponential in long term. So most of the difficult periods are transitional, and one has to understand and then deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Yeah. So we have to zoom out a little bit and try to see it as a big picture.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Absolutely. What what why what this difficult period is teaching us, or why this has to be done now, right? And what it can do for us as an individual, as a family in the long term. I test a bit on that earlier. I think it's a very relevant question because all of us are looking for happiness.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

Not the transient kind, which you get probably when you eat a piece of zakatote, coffee at a very fancy cafe or a ball dust, or you know, anything else, but more of uh long-lasting happiness, right? One thing for sure is relationship, investing and focusing, right? Um I I read this term and I really liked it in a quote. People use relationship and invest in material things, right? Whereas it should be reverse. People should invest in relationships and use material things.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

Investing in relationship is very important. Second thing is I think the coherence. So, what is coherence is a happy life is about are you living a life which is aligned to your values? Are you coherent? It's as simple as that. For example, if my value system is punctuality and I'm with a group of people who are always late, they would always disturb me.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Yeah.

Values As A Compass And Coherence

SPEAKER_00 53:06

It will take away my happiness, and I would be, okay, why is this happening? Why this person will? So coherence is I think a key to happy life, relationships, yeah. How you spend your time, how you earn your money, how you live your values, you know, when you when this aligns, the happiness is basically a byproduct, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:32

So the first step is figuring out what our values are.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

And then design a life that fits with those values.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Absolutely. I realize a lot of us are living a life which is on autopilot.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Which is also what the world is projecting that this should be your life. Okay, you should buy this fancy bag, or you should go on this vacation, or you should, you know, uh do this, or you should work for X number fast, or you should earn Y amount of money. That's the projection of the world. Uh if you know your values, you will do things which are aligned to your values, which would then you would not be chasing some targets which are not yours, which somebody created.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Or either themselves or the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Yeah. So having your values is like having a compass throwing you the way. Looking back on your life, is there anything you regret or anything you would do differently?

Regrets, Inner Signals, And Alignment

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I realized since I started doing regular journaling that you know I don't carry regrets as much as I have reflections. If I could do one thing earlier, it would be to trust my inner signals or you know, inner voice much sooner. Yeah. Because, and this is connected to what I said a little bit earlier. When something looked good externally, for example, I was doing this role which looked great on paper. I'm a project manager, I have a 30-member team which is spread across nine countries. I had probably a billion-dollar portfolio, look great on paper, but that field misaligned internally. Why? I was teaching hope at 11 p.m. I didn't have time for my family. My health was being, you know, of course, impacted because if you eat your dinner at 11 p.m. and you sleep and you you would have ill effects, right? So focusing and listening to my inner signals sooner and working on that is something which I think I would have done, I could have done uh better, right? Um, but having said that, with reflection, I realized it gave me the language, it gave me uh the perspective that how can I change that, and how can I, you know, live life more aligned to my values, more aligned to my principles, and invest more in relationships, invest more in helping others, invest more in uh you know giving back.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

Oh Rav, thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your uh thoughts with us. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Thank you, thank you for the wonderful opportunity and for bringing on the voice of different people with different experiences nationally for your audience. I really appreciate your work here.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Thank you for listening. This was the Zest Balto. Take what resonates, leave what doesn't. And remember, life is precious. Make the most of it. Until next time.