From Deloitte Partner to The Impossible Life - with Mike Kearney

You can “win” at corporate life and still feel a quiet pull that something is missing. We sit down with Mike Kearney, who spent 30 years at Deloitte, made partner, led major initiatives and then chose to leave early so he could have real freedom in his 50s and be more present with his family. He unpacks the moments that forced the question “Is this everything?” and the practical life plan that helped him stop drifting and start choosing.

We get tactical on what actually makes change stick: quarterly resets, a quick weekly calendar audit and daily check-ins that protect what matters when life gets busy. Mike shares the mindset shifts he now coaches through The Impossible Life, including “hell yes or hell no” decisions, not picking up the rope in conflict and making progress through micro-actions when fear or uncertainty creeps in.

The conversation also goes deeper into meaning and identity after leaving a high-status role. We talk about work friendships and expectations, why meaningful work matters even after early retirement, and what it looks like to stay grounded through meditation, proactive health habits and a more honest view of hardship. If you’re thinking about career transition, intentional living or designing a purpose-driven life, you’ll leave with frameworks you can use immediately.

To discover more about Mike's work, get in touch with him on LinkedIn.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Mike!

Transcript

Welcome And Big Question Theme

Speaker 2 0:06

Hi there, welcome to the ZestPal Show. I'm your host Gabriella, and together with my guests we explore how to navigate life, what really matters, and how we can all build the life that we actually enjoy. Come and join us. In this episode, my guest is Mike Kearney. After 30 days at Deloitte and at the top of his case, Mike chose to retire early to enjoy more freedom in his 50s, and he's now coaching people through his program The Impossible Life. Here we talk about lessons from a corporate career, why your seemingly impossible life is actually very possible. And of course, the deeper questions in life. Enjoy.

Mike’s 30 Years At Deloitte

Speaker 2 0:45

It's a pleasure to have you on the show, Mike. Thanks for joining us. First of all, tell me a little bit more about yourself. What is it that you do and what's your story?

Speaker 3 0:55

Well, that's a lot. So I will start with the fact that right now I am 54 years old, which is a big part of the story. I live in Austin, Texas. Um, I spent the better part, or my entire career, I guess I should say, at Deloitte. Um, and I think I have a story that's different than most, at least of the colleagues and the people that I worked with. So I was there for 30 years, three decades, literally started right out of college in 1994. Um, never thought I would be a consultant. My dad was a San Francisco cop, so I grew up in the Bay Area in California. Um, I kind of came from a blue-collar family. College was one of those things where I just kind of went to it. It was never really a conversation with my parents. Um, and I created an incredible career at Deloitte. I made partner in 2005, which back then it was pretty quick. And I had literally, um, and I joke about this, it's like the second best thing that ever happened to me beyond my family. Like Deloitte was amazing. It gave me opportunities that I never would have had. Um, so I made partner, I led an innovation group for our firm. Um, at the end, I was our chief marketing officer. And between that, I led different businesses. I served great clients. Um, I started something in the US called the Deloitte greenhouses, which now is global. But there were some moments in my career where I just started to ask myself, is this, is this everything? I had a moment where um, and usually the moments are hard ones, you know. So um, when you kind of get religion, my my moments were uh 2005, my wife and I were flying from Miami to San Francisco and we had um an engine fire. I think we were okay. Uh, but when you're like flying and the lady's screaming the engine's on fire and there's a bunch of turbulence, you know, you get a little worried. And so, you know, it was a moment like that, or um, my son and I, who's now 18 years old, almost drowned in Costa Rica um a few years ago. And then I think it all came to a head. I think it was about 2018, another plane. So as a consultant, I flew a lot. Um, I fainted when I was going to the bathroom. And I think a lot of it was uh because of the amount of work, the amount of travel, the stress that I had. And so the timeline's all over the place. But my seminal moment was in 20, let me make sure I get the rear right, uh, 2012.

The Life Plan That Changed Everything

Speaker 3 3:13

And I was listening to this podcast, it doesn't even matter who it was. Um, and this guy was talking about um very simple, a life plan. Um, and at Deloitte, we were really good at developing goals, like how much revenue are you going to bring in for the firm or all the different things that we're gonna do for the firm, for the business? And it was the first time that I really started to think about what I wanted out of life. And this simple tool focused on things like, you know, how do you want your family to remember you? What type of relationship do you want to have with your kids? What about your health? What about your spirituality? Uh, what about travel? What about work? What about all these different things? And it was the first time I really stood back and I thought, you know what, I need to be intentional about this life that I'm leaving or leading. Um, and so I went deep into that. And when I mean deep into that, like I spent a lot of time uh putting together the plan, which totally is insufficient. So I'll talk about what I did. But I put a lot of time thinking about where do I want to be long term? And so I came up with this mantra of like, I want to be able to have freedom in my 50s. And once again, not leave Deloitte because I love Deloitte, but I want to be able to make decisions on a daily basis that are totally in line with my values. So this was 10 years. But then I also said, I want to show up differently at work. And part of my challenge was I was in a very um conservative consulting organization where there was probably some unwritten rules about how you operate and how you act. And I kind of was not um like that. Like I was um very creative. I like to take risks, and I always felt like I was um, you know, kind of out of place, quite frankly. And it was in that moment, part of my life plan, I said, I'm gonna show up as who I am. Like literally, I am gonna show up differently at work. I'm gonna focus on the things that I want to do. I want to take risks that I otherwise wouldn't or hadn't. And if it works out, fantastic. If it doesn't, you know, I'll be able to go find another job. Now, the irony is when I did all of that, my job got better. I started to get more roles, I performed better. I was asked to do things in a million years I didn't think I would ever be able to. And so I know I'm kind of all over the board. Um, I showed up differently. So for that, I guess 10 years before I left Deloitte, which made my career even more amazing, but I never lost sight of the fact that I wanted this freedom in my 50s. And um, one of the key things I would say, just the learning that I have, is oftentimes people like to make these um significant changes in their life overnight. And what I found is sometimes you have to play the long game. And for me, it would have been silly for me to have just got up and left when I had three kids, college, mortgage, all of that stuff. I was making really good money. And so for me, it worked out well to just be really thoughtful. Um, but I also didn't lose sight of the short term. The only thing I would say is I am a huge, I coach a lot of people now. One of the things that I find with myself, so you know, most of the stuff I reflect on is not of other people I work with. It's the shortcomings that I have, is that it's really easy to come up with like a grandiose plan of all the things that you want to do. It's really hard to execute on it because we're humans, right? And so um I put into place, and and quite frankly, this was recommended in the podcast and it worked for me.

Quarterly Resets And Weekly Planning

Speaker 3 6:26

I put into place a rhythm of I would uh go off site for a full day once a quarter. So once every three months, I would go through my plan, I would assess like, did I do the things that I said I was gonna do over the last quarter? Um, what's new? Because things are always changing, life is always changing. So I'd have new things that I wanted to tackle. And where am I falling down? Which I would fall down quite a bit. And this allowed me just to kind of reset every three months and recommit to what I had come up with and obviously evolved to a certain degree as well. The second thing I did is every Sunday, I take just 15 minutes, super easy, and I'd look at my calendar because I was ruled by my calendar, um, unfortunately. So, and I would make sure that that stuff that was really important to me that quite frankly nobody cared about in the world beyond me and maybe my family made its way into the calendar. I know that sounds silly, but a lot of times, especially when you're so busy, you could kind of be at the whim of of all of everybody else's expectations and not yours. And then daily I would just do a quick check-in, just make sure I'm making the right decisions and spending my time in the right way. And I I use that model for that 10-year period of time. My life's a little different, so I'm not as probably um as much as a zealot on it today, but I I definitely kind of make sure that I'm executing and holding myself accountable to the things that I want to do. You want me to pause for a second? I could give you a couple other things of what I'm doing today, but I don't want to just ramble on.

Speaker 2 7:52

No, I love listening to you ramble on. So go on.

Speaker 3 7:55

Okay.

Meaningful Work After Leaving Corporate

Speaker 3 7:56

Uh, one of my favorite songs by Led Zeppelin to ramble on. But um, so when I left Deloitte, and this is maybe a key point, I think what brought us together was a LinkedIn post that I put out probably a few weeks ago on just what have I learned after four years after retirement from Deloitte? And I don't even know if this made the list, but one of the things that is really important. So if anybody's out there considering, and I hate the word retirement, it's such a bad word. We all need to come up with a better word because to me, it's like regeneration or, you know, just simply doing the things that really light me up and doing it on my terms. So that's kind of the way that I look at it. But one of the things that I have learned is that you absolutely, or at least I absolutely, my you know, story of one, I have to do something that lights me up where I feel like I'm making an impact in this world. So the whole idea of like stopping work and going and doing nothing other than maybe, you know, playing golf, which I don't play golf or traveling all the time, or doing all these things that you think actually would be so amazing is fine, but it has to be complemented in a significant way with work that's meaningful. And work could be many different things. You know, my wife, who was a teacher, started up her own business and she's kind of pursuing her passion. For me, I always just loved helping people. And so I went into coaching and I kind of feel like I do my own type of coaching because there's a blend of like advising um that I provide people, which is kind of the anti-coaching method. They tell you not to do that. But then ultimately everybody's gotta, you know, take responsibility for their own path. But the people who reach out to me and I work with are not corporates, are individuals who are really interested in um living, you know, my branding is their impossible life, which is kind of a play on words because I don't actually think what you think is your impossible life is really actually impossible. Um, and so I love working with people and helping kind of guide them on that journey. And that's one of the things that I do today. Um, two other things that I do, I work with um, at least in the United States, and this may be globally, I don't know, but young men are falling behind significantly. Right. And like the stat that always just boggles my mind. And I'm saying this, and I don't think college is the end all be all, but it's a proxy for where young men are at. Out of every hundred people that go to college in the US now, 60 are women, 40 are men. And then there's all the other challenges that they're having, whether it's, you know, uh drug addiction, gambling, pornography, gaming, the list goes on and on and on. They're struggling. And the whole group is struggling. Even the ones that actually look like they're doing really well, like they went to a top university, they're working at a great job, they're struggling. And then obviously the ones that are, you know, 25 sitting on the couch, staying at mom and dad's house are struggling as well. And so I mentor them. It's kind of one of the things I do to give back. And then the last thing that I do, um, I guess of consequences, I I host something called the um Impossible Life Fight Club. And so once a month I get a group of people together, um, and it's totally free, I guess. I mean, it's just come and join the call. Um, and it's people that are like-minded that are pursuing their impossible life. And it's really about bringing community together to support each other, uh, to help people think through what the options may be, to hold people accountable, to champion them, to give them ideas, to do all of that. And what's awesome about it in the piece that I love is that I've got people that are in their 20s all the way up to their 60s. And you would think that the 60-year-olds would be able to teach 20-year-olds everything, which is true, but the 20-year-olds obviously have a lot to share with the 60-year-olds as well. And so um, it's a pretty special community um that I love just hosting every month.

Speaker 2 11:33

I love that you mentioned that this is just so nice to recognize that uh this intergenerational learning goes both ways.

Speaker 3 11:41

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, my kids teach me more than anybody. I've got a 26, 24, and 18-year-old. So I guess I learned from them that I've got a lot to learn from the younger generation. And then quite frankly, I always loved when I was in consulting. I loved bringing people in that were fresh, that weren't tainted by kind of the process and just had these really cool ideas, maybe some of which were totally not pertinent, but there was always something in them that you could pull forward that you wouldn't get from somebody that had been there, you know, 10, 15, 20 years.

Helping Young Men Regain Agency

Speaker 2 12:13

Can I ask a question about the the boys and um what you mentioned that uh young men are falling behind? Yeah. So so when you work with them, I I know you it's not possible to summarize what advice you would give them, but uh can you give me one or two main points what you think they can do to help them sell?

Speaker 3 12:35

Yeah, I would say um uh first of all, for the young men that I'm working with, there is a mind I'm gonna give you very specific examples, but I think there needs to be a mind shift um change with many of these young people. And I think this is not necessarily just young people, this is older people, but I think that they need to feel that they've got agency and they're empowered to do what they want in their life. And I think sometimes it's human nature to kind of like blame your circumstance, blame your parents, blame something. Maybe rightfully so. Like, right? Like you have the worst parents ever. You had, you know, my mom died when she was young of alcoholism. Very easy thing to blame. Like, mom, why did you do that? It impacted me. And it wasn't until I figured out that everybody's dealing with something. Like everybody, everybody's got like really, and I'm not talking about like surface level hard stuff, like everybody's got really hard stuff that they're dealing with, whether it's now or it's in the past or they will in the future. You just can't get out of this life without bad stuff happening to you.

Speaker 5 13:40

Yeah.

Speaker 3 13:40

And so one of the things that I think the young people and all people just need to recognize is that bad stuff is gonna happen, hard stuff's gonna happen. And you've got two choices. Like you could sit around and ruminate on it, and I hate to use the word victim, but you you could play the victim card, or you could just accept the fact that you've got responsibility for your own life and you've got responsibility for whatever you want to have happen in your life. And so, um, for example, if you're a young person and you have lesser means, let's just say, which is not great because you know, kids that grow up in affluence have a lot of benefits over kids that don't. I would also argue that it's the reverse, too, because I see a lot of kids that actually do have a lot of money, they've got their own set of problems. But let's just um say for sake of argument, you don't grow up with a lot, you could sit around and complain about that, or you can actually use that as your superpower. And your superpower is the fact that you're hungry, that you want something better. And then, you know, if you take the action, if you network, if you do the things that you need to do, you're going to change your circumstances for the better. Now, I'm not suggesting it's like you're gonna, you know, come into amazing success and amazing money, but I guarantee that if you shed that mindset that, you know, I am a victim or this is all happening to me, and you take that mindset of I am responsible for whatever my future is, good things, maybe a better way of saying it, better things will happen. Um, and so that's the first thing I would say. I would also say for younger people, take the risks now. I wish this is if I I, you know, one of the questions that people always ask is, what would you do differently? And I don't know if I'd do a whole lot differently, but I do think that I was risk averse early on in my career. It was like, well, if I leave here now and I do that thing that I really want to do, what if I'm not successful? Or what if I don't make the money I need to make to, you know, not even, not even uh pay for my family because I didn't have a family at the time, but just, you know, what if I don't make the same amount of money? It's like when you're in your early 20s, you have very little at risk. You don't have a family, you don't have mortgage, you don't have all of that different stuff that could be weighing you back. I coach a lot of people that are in their 30s and 40s, it gets exponentially harder. So, you know, if you're sitting around saying, and most people that have a job are, and this is actually really sad, but majority of people that are working kind of in a corporate environment or for somebody else are are more than likely not going to be happy. And I think the stat is like 20% are miserable, which is like flying log, right?

Speaker 2 16:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3 16:17

Um, so if if you are in that camp, if you're miserable, that's like do something immediately. But even if you're not connected and you're like, I feel like there's something better out there for me, once again, go back to what I said, play the long game, maybe not as long as I did in that circumstance, but think about what would your 35, 45-year-old self say if you didn't actually take this risk now. And at the end of the day, like just take a worst case scenario. Say you're like, I want to go start my own business and it's a complete disaster. You could go right back to where you started. And so to me, I would say take the risk now. And then one of the things that I talk to a lot of young people about, or actually, it's a lot of people like that wants to pursue something different. My kids, my oldest son is a dog trainer, not anything like what I did. My daughter is an interior designer, and my younger son, who's about to go to university, is gonna go into fashion design. So, like, I could not have picked three kids that do something, you know, so different from what I did, right? Mostly creative, doing stuff that they love. So that's the first thing I would say is I always tell people find that thing that you love that lights you up. Now, that sounds great and very Pollyanish because um there's two other pieces. You have to hit all three of these on the Venn diagram. So do something you love, find something you love. You got to make sure that you actually are good at it or can build the skills in it. So, like, just use my son um as an example. He loves dogs, like, loves, loves, loves dogs. If he didn't have a proclivity to working with dogs, or if he didn't have the right training, probably not gonna work very well. And then the third thing is that people wouldn't pay you for it. So using the dog trainer analogy, he could be, you know, in love with the profession, he could be the best at it. But if there's not a market for it and somebody's not gonna pay you for it, then it's probably not a good career to pursue. And so what I always tell people is, you know, get clear on what you love, but just make sure that you can get good at it where you are good at it, and make sure somebody is going to pay you money. Because at the end of the day, listen, I'm money does not rule my life. Obviously, I left 12 years early from Deloitte, but you got to take care of yourself and your family. And the worst thing to do is be that idealistic, starving fill-in-the-blank. You're really good at it, you love it, but nobody will pay you for it. So I think that's that model I always talk to people about. And then the last thing I would say, and this is probably something I felt personally in the last three or four years, is experiment evolve. Like when I left Deloitte when I retired, I had a point of view on exactly what I was going to do. Like I started a podcast and then I kind of fell out of love with it, like six months into it. I was like, I like, I love what I'm doing, but I kind of did that when I was at Deloitte and I want to do something different. And I did beat myself up over the fact that I changed my mind. Like I was like, it's no longer like eight out of 10, it's like a six out of 10. I don't want to spend my time doing it. And so I would say, be comfortable like taking in new information, be open to evolving and changing. It's human nature. It's okay. Um, and so that would be the other thing I would tell the younger generation. And there's a lot more, but uh, but those would be the highlights.

Speaker 2 19:24

I love this permission to change your mind. I think that is uh that is very, very good advice.

Speaker 3 19:30

It's actually uh it's funny that you say that. I would say this is not related to younger people, but the other thing that I really, especially in the world we live at where everything is so polarized, like everything is so well, certainly in the US, it's like I love more than anything talking to people that have beliefs, not even just political, but just have a different point of view on things than I do, right? 180 degrees, I love it more than anything. And one of the things that I've learned, especially when I reflect back to when I was in my early 20s, I was like, you know what? I've got some core beliefs that have changed 180 degrees. And if I my beliefs, my beliefs can change 180 degrees over time, then who's to say that my beliefs are right now? Right? Like if if they've changed, right, that would assume that my beliefs could change in the future. And usually that comes with just, you know, uh being open, learning new things, and having life experiences. And so one of the other things that I I tell people is like, just don't cling to your beliefs that strongly. I'm not saying not to have core beliefs. That's not what I'm saying. But you may learn at some point in time that that belief is not serving you well any longer.

Speaker 2 20:41

Yeah. I think the more experiences one has, the more that belief system will be challenged. It's just not possible, otherwise, you come across different people and different experiences. It's it's natural that your beliefs will be challenged by someone.

Speaker 5 20:55

Totally. Yeah.

Work Friends And Resetting Expectations

Speaker 2 20:56

So that LinkedIn post uh that just randomly appeared on my field, and I'm so happy that it did. Your candid uh honesty was uh really refreshing. And some of the things you wrote about really caught my eye, like friends being uh true or full. I would love to hear more about this.

Speaker 3 21:15

Ah well, hopefully I don't offend any of my friends at the light. But but here's one of the things I was gonna say is I think a lot of what drove that post was that people put a lot of stock into what they have at their company, right? Whether it's like their role and their the what everybody thinks about them and their friends. And so what I'm just trying to point out, which is a really important one, is that you oftentimes build the belief that all these people that are around you are going to be like lifelong friends. And what I would say is some will be absolutely like I have like people that I have, you know, been friends with for decades that I'm still friends with, people that I was only friends with a couple of years that I'm still friends with. But one of the things that I also found is that, especially Especially when you're in a leadership role, there are people that may look like a friend that when you leave, you learn pretty quickly they weren't. And that's not a bad thing. So I'm not saying, you know, damn those people. Like, how could you like uh present yourself as a friend? I'm just saying it's it from the fact that when you recognize that, especially when you leave an organization, retire, just not to have the grandiose expectation that everybody that you were close with while you were there is going to be close with in the future. And to a certain degree, you know, the underlying message is really just about expectations. And it's like the greater expectation they have, the sadder you're going to be, or the more frustrated you're going to be. It's like, well, you know, why wasn't Jane my friend anymore? Like we were so close. And then what's going to happen? You're going to be frustrated by that. It's going to make you feel bad. And I guess one of the things I felt was just recognize it for what it is. It was a friendship at work that served a purpose. And then I moved on. And for whatever reason it served no purpose. And that's okay. So that was kind of my thinking behind that one. The one thing I will say though, there have been some people that I was not close with that I become super close with after I left. And I don't know why. Honestly, it's it's it's like people that reached out to me that I didn't know that well. And then we become very close afterwards. So it works both ways.

Speaker 2 23:22

I think you really only get to see people's true colors when you cannot do anything for them.

Speaker 5 23:28

Totally.

Speaker 2 23:29

You know, when they can't give favors or they don't gain anything, only those who are genuinely interested in you and like you, only those will want to reach out or hang out.

Speaker 3 23:41

Yeah, and you know what? I I could not agree more. I wish I said that. So thank you. Um I think there's a learning, I think there's actually, as you said that, there's a learning there as well, which is be a genuine friend. So I think that's key. But one of the things that I have found is that the more that you do for somebody, so I'm almost taking the opposite of like, as long as you're providing for somebody and helping them out, they're going to be there for you. I actually think people should take the opposite view, which is give one. Always give more to the other person. And what I found is the more that you give, whether it's a work relationship or even a relationship outside, or if it's somebody that just reaches out to you over social media, you know, you could say very easily, I'm not going to spend my time with them. What, what, what good are they going to do for me? But what I have found is that the more that you give to another party, the universe works in mysterious ways that it comes back tenfold. Um, and I know that everybody's probably heard this, but I've experienced this in a big way. So I try not to go into any um conversation with anybody with big expectations around what they're going to give to me. I try to just, and hopefully I do a good job of this, but I I try to give to them because it feels good, quite frankly. So it's not like I'm being totally altruistic. It's like I actually feel good when I help somebody. So there's that, that's good. Um, but then it also just, if I was not being altruistic, and if it was just all about like, how can it help me? Weirdly, it helps me. And so I would say, you know, if you're at an organization or not, and you're thinking about how to manage relationships, um, to trip, you know, be genuine in your friendship and actually to give more than than what you receive, and then you'll get back probably tenfold of what you give. That's what I found.

Speaker 2 25:30

Yeah. You know, my father experienced something similar to you. He was a CEO of a company for 20 years. And uh, after he retired, the first Christmas after he retired, suddenly there were no calls and uh Christmas cards, and it it was a shock that he did not see that coming.

Speaker 3 25:52

You know what? Yeah, I met with a CEO of a company who left a year before, beloved at the company, big name, and I um met with him and he said, Um, I have not heard from the organization that I was a CEO of for a year. I was like, Are you gonna are you gonna be kidding me? That like opened up my eye. And this guy was beloved, and so yeah, it happens.

Speaker 26:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:21

But this is a very good lesson, I think, for people, young people starting their careers to not sacrifice everything for one company because the it's not the most important thing, is it?

Speaker 3 26:33

No. I mean, I for me, I mean, if you were to ask me like what's something more important in the company, I mean, it's like it's so cliche, but like health, I'll just start with health, because that's maybe not as cliche. A lot of people, especially in the United States, are putting their health at serious risk so that they could give everything to the company. Maybe it's getting a little better, but like the obesity rates high, you know, people drinking, the stress levels, the travel, et cetera, et cetera. And I think I actually put one of those in that post that you were talking about, like your body keep score. And it is scary because what I see a lot of my friends as they get into their mid-50s, it was to a certain degree true for me as well, where I'm like, I pushed it so hard that my health was not kind of a priority. Like I'd work out and I'd try to eat well, you know, but there was a lot of flights and late nights and big dinners, and you know, you just fall behind. And then you wake up and you're like, oh my God, I've got some work to do on my health. And so to me, I would never, so you know, let's just say for sake of Army, you don't have a family right now. I would never ever put a job in front of my health, ever. And I think that the two can kind of work together, but you need to be thoughtful about it. And then, you know, like like family. I mean, I I one of, I don't know if this is a regret, because once again, I'm I'm not a huge, like, I wish I did things differently type person. But I do wish that I didn't go on all of the trips that I did. And what I mean by that is there are probably some that were not a hundred percent necessary. And um, it's made me subscribe to like one of my core beliefs now, um, which I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but maybe 10 or 15 years ago, a lot of corporate people would be like, oh, it's not the quantity of time you spend with your family or your kids, it's the quality. Yeah. So I'm gonna call bullshit on it. Here's one.

Speaker 28:27

Yeah.

Speaker 3 28:28

I I so I have um my my my 18-year-old was 14 when I left Deloitte. The most important moments in our life where we have connected are under the most mundane moments.

Speaker 5 28:42

Yeah.

Speaker 3 28:42

Right. When I drive in him to school and he would talk about like he had a really bad injury a few years ago, like talk about like the impact that it was having on him or a girlfriend or whatever, right? And so I do think it's important to show up. That's that's my point more than anything. And so I'm not saying like quality moments don't matter, but I'm saying you actually have to be around to actually have those quality moments. And so, you know, if I were to do something differently, I probably would be a little more mindful of like not traveling as much as I did, which had a big impact. I have great relationships with my wife and my family. So it's not like I'm just saying, like, I wish I was around more.

Speaker 2 29:19

I absolutely uh agree. And I think it's uh it's always the little things. Like Yeah, sure you can go on a fantastic holiday, but you're not gonna do that every week. And taking the kids uh once a year on a great holiday is not gonna make up for the other uh 51 weeks of not being there when they're trying to show you something, or even when you're there, but you're not there because you know, you're buried in your laptop or your in your work or whatever.

Speaker 3 29:46

I also don't think holidays are real life. They're usually kind of a little curated and contrived, and you know, I don't know. So, like that that's actually when I think of quality time, I oftentimes think like, oh, if we take this amazing vacation as a family, that's gonna be the place we reconnect. Which I'm not saying you don't connect during that, but I actually think now in retrospect, I value those kind of micro moments, and that's where real life happens.

Speaker 2 30:12

Yeah. All right.

What Truly Matters Beyond Work

Speaker 2 30:13

Shall we move on to those seven questions then?

Speaker 4 30:15

Let's do it.

Speaker 2 30:16

Let's do it. What are the things that truly matter in life?

Speaker 3 30:28

So I would say the first thing is uh being true to yourself. So that goes back to like my story of going to 2012, putting that life together that life plan. And I was always, I always felt like I was a pretty like open, honest, and authentic person. But I felt like I wasn't being truly authentic in how I was showing up at work, especially. It's really hard to like go through life and not be yourself. And I think there's a lot of people out there. Um, it sounds like the biggest no-brainer. It's like, of course, you got to be true to who yourself. But think about how many people operate differently, you know, from their work environment, from you know, their home environment. They put masks on, they do things that are kind of against kind of what their core values are or whatever. I think you just gotta start uh with being true to who you are. That that to me is like the number one thing. So I would just start there. The other thing is um I have this question, I forget um it's a author, Arthur C. Brooks. I'm sorry, I want to say it because I stole it from him. So I don't want to, I don't want to say this. So I I saw him speak uh probably about three years ago. And one of the questions that he asks, he asked people to think about is uh why are you alive? And what would you die for? And I actually had a problem, not a problem, I mean, like, what would you die for? Like, of course I would die for my family. I mean, it's like you start to just get to this surface level stuff. So I actually flipped that question and it really helped me think through my own life, but then it helped me think through like how do I guide people? And so I asked the question of what would I not die for? Yes. And when you start to ask that, it's it's eye-opening because there's a lot of things that I was probably doing in my life that potentially could have accelerated my demise. Sounds so morbid, but but like, but like once you start to get clear on like, I am not going to die for this job.

Speaker 5 32:28

Yeah.

Speaker 3 32:28

Right. Um, it starts to open up things. And I think it gets very clear on kind of like what truly matters in life. Um, and so that one really helped me and it's helped a lot of people that I worked with. So um that's a question. And then, you know, I think there's things that talked about, like, you know, family health. Um, I think spirituality. We have not talked about spirituality at all. And uh and I'm not talking about religion, but I do think for me, what's important is understanding your place in this world. And, you know, none of us are getting out alive. And so, like, what does this all mean? And so I think to a certain degree, what matters, at least in my life, um, and I think should matter in in everybody's life, is pursuing what spirituality means to you. And I'll just keep it at that. I'm not advocating any religion. I'm not even actually advocating religion. I'm just um maybe getting at asking the deeper questions because I think once you do, it helps kind of reset or set the values that are most important to you. And so I would say that that's that's what I say, what's important in life. And then, like I said, my family. I my family more than anything. Um, and I would say one of the actually, I have not said this yet, but I think one of the number one reasons I'm I'm really good at after I make a big decision, realizing what the real decision was or why I did what I did. And um, a parallel on this is my I told you my mom died. She was a bad alcoholic in 1992. Well, um, and this is a whole long story, I'm not gonna go into it, but I was a sophomore in college and I decided to move to of all places because my parents had bought like a second home. Um, and when I say second home, like we were blue collar, it was like like a minimalistic home. Uh, but they bought something in Vegas, Las Vegas, of all places in the world. My mom liked the heat. Anyway, something called me to like move down there for three or four months. And I thought it was just more just to have fun in Vegas. And it was ultimately the last four months of her life. And I, and I I thought about because I'm a pretty like analytical. I think things through. There was no rhyme or reason for me to get up, leave college, and go to Vegas for four or five months. And so I reflect on that and I think, you know what? Actually, the reason why I did that was probably to spend the last four or five months with my mom for whatever reason. I don't know, maybe it was intuition or something was telling me to go down there. And so I think now a similar pattern is emerging with me leaving Deloitte. And I think ultimately uh it truly is about me being with my family and going back to that, you know, quantity of moments. And I want to be there for them. And, you know, I had, I was not there for my older son who struggled a bit during high school and early part of post-high school. Um, and I didn't want to make that same, not a mistake. I wanted to uh make sure that that did not happen again. And so I wanted to be there more with my younger son and my daughter and my older son. And I think now in retrospect, the number one reason I pursued this freedom was not necessarily freedom to do all these fun things I'm doing, coaching and whatever. It was actually just to be there for them. And I I, well, who knows the impact? Because I can't judge it based on if I wasn't there, but I feel like it was the right decision.

Speaker 35:43

Yeah, I'm sure it was.

Speaker 3 35:45

And each one of my kids are building their own business, so it's kind of fun to be able to do that with them, which I would not have the time otherwise. So yeah, I think it was the right decision.

Rules For Better Decisions And Boundaries

Speaker 2 36:01

What are the most important lessons you have learned in life?

Speaker 3 36:05

I think there's a uh I think there's probably going to be some common themes, uh, but I think they're probably important to uh repeat. Uh the first one, it goes back to this whole notion of uh taking 100% responsibility for your life. That may be like at the top of my list, like literally. And whenever something, once again, I I said earlier, like hard things happen to all of us. Hard things have happened to me this year. And the first thing I always think of is like, okay, I could sit around and ruminate on this, which I do ruminate. I'm like a serial ruminator, which is probably my biggest flaw. But one of the things that I've I've quickly figured out is like, okay, whether or not I created the situation that I'm in, I have the responsibility to figure out how I'm gonna move forward. Whatever moving forward looks like. And so the notion of um taking responsibility for yourself is important. Um, I said this earlier too, but I'm gonna say it again is that idea that um, once again, there is always hard stuff. And I think what I struggled with, probably even up into the last couple of years, is adopting a mindset of even though there's hard stuff, you still have to live your best life. And those two things can coexist. Which I always used to think like, no, the only way you could live a great life is when like everything's going peachy and everything's great. And I started to figure out, well, that's never the case for the most part. Like you, and and and and you could always find. I mean, I think the thing is, I think the human brain is wired to find bad stuff. So I'm not even talking about like some existential thing that's happening within your family or your health. We're just wired to find the bad stuff. And so, you know, you replace the really gnarly problems with maybe problems that are not as bad. And so then that becomes your bad stuff or your hard thing that you're dealing with. And and I guess what I realize, and this really does empower me, like I I love where my mind is at with this, is that once I made peace with the fact that like shit's gonna happen and I could still live a good life, that feels really good because I'm like, okay, I'll deal with that, but then at the same time, I'm gonna continue to pursue the things that give me joy and fulfillment. Um, and so that would be the other one. This is something I have not talked about in a while, this next kind of lesson that I've learned in my life. And there's been a lot of people that have talked about this, like, I don't know if you're familiar with Tim Ferris or others, but it's how you make decisions. And I would find myself in life, my personal life, my professional life, doing stuff that was good, but I didn't really want to do.

Speaker 5 38:40

Right.

Speaker 3 38:40

So, like, even consider this this conversation that we're having when you ask me. Mike 10 years ago may have been like, well, let's just assume I didn't want to do it, but I totally wouldn't do it. And I'll explain that in a second. Oh, I'll do it. Um, especially if it was an obligation, which this is not an obligation. I'll do it. So maybe it would be better when I was at Delay. Like there were several things that would come to me, like, can you go meet with this client? Can you join this meeting? Can you do this thing? And um, I oftentimes would say yes when it was like um, you know, on a scale of one through 10, maybe it was a five or six of me wanting to do it. And what happened was I would get to the other side of it, I'd be miserable because it stacked up against all of these other really important commitments. It would take away the things that actually really mattered to me, and I would become resentful. And why am I doing this? This is a big waste of my time, which is not a good place. I'm the one that agreed to do it. And so I have applied like this uh decision-making process where it's like either a hell yes or hell no. Like I know intuitively in my gut, I know with most things whether or not it's a hell yes or a hell no, or it is an eight or it's a six. And so I apply that now. So I would say the other important lesson is to just be really clear on how you use your time and what you agree to. Because most people get frustrated because they're doing a lot of things that are serving other people's interests and not their own. And so getting good at saying yes or no is maybe one of the things that contributes the most, at least to my well-being. And I think then the trick is which that's a whole nother conversation, is how do you do it? Um, and there's an art form in that, which um, yeah, which I know we're not talking about right now. Um, I talked about uh don't cling to your beliefs earlier. So that's another thing that I've learned. And then the other one, um, maybe the last one is uh don't pick up the rope. I had this very senior leader at Deloitte give me this advice maybe 10 or 15 years ago. And it served me both personally and professionally. And it had to do with a very senior leader, I'm not gonna say who it is at our firm who would always kind of bait people into arguments. And I'd be like, I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna have this argument. And it did not serve me ever. Right. And so she's like, Mike, don't pick up the rope, you know, like tug more. And I'm like, yeah, actually, I have agency in whether or not I engage in this situation. And I'm like, wow, that's amazing. Even if like you feel like you're the victim or something's being done to you, you don't have to engage. And so as a result of that, it's helped me a lot because there are moments where you feel like you've been wronged or that you need to kind of stand your ground. And I'm not saying sometimes you do need to stand your ground. So you need to pick and choose very wisely, but I would say probably 95% of those moments, you do not need to engage. And so I love this notion of um just um don't pick up the rope. And then I guess maybe the one last thing I would say is maybe this is kind of in line with this. Um make it easy. I think for me, I have like I've been a chronic like making things more difficult than they need to be in life. And um, this was from another podcast I listened to, and I just started applying it, and it actually worked really well for me and my life. So it's a huge learning, is just asking myself, okay, what would it look like if this were easy? Whatever it is. And um, a simple example would be like, I'm not a big runner, uh, but if I were a runner or if I was in the gym and I was like, oh my God, and this is probably overly simplistic example, but you're like, okay, well, what would this look like if it were easy? So if you're running and you're like huffing and puffing and you're not enjoying yourself, what could you do to make it easy? Well, I could stand up a little straighter. All I know I need to take deep breaths, right? I could look at the scenery and say, wow, isn't this beautiful? Totally changes my mindset. For um, you know, maybe an argument with a spouse or significant other. Uh, well, what would it look like to make this easy? Well, I don't need to be an asshole. I could maybe stand down. I could maybe for a minute think about what's important to her, right? And then adjust the way that I respond. I I don't know. It's just a very simple life philosophy that I think is so game-changing if you begin to apply it. And it can be applied in literally everything in life.

Speaker 1 43:24

I'm already thinking in my mind how I can apply it because this is the first time I've heard this. Make it easy.

Speaker 3 43:31

It's actually um one of the things, and I've stole some of this, but um I didn't mention this. But um, we have been working as part of this impossible life uh experience program. We have a philosophy that a person that I work with, like kind of my one of my co founders, that coming up with like what your impossible life is, is really easy. I I'm not saying that, well, I shouldn't say easy. It's doable and could definitely be coached and probably. Sits somewhere within your gut, you kind of know like what you want to do in life, right? I I kind of believe that based on like my own experience and talking to a lot of people and helping them through this. My point is getting to what your impossible life and articulating it is usually not that hard. And if you're familiar with Simon Sinek, who wrote the book Start With Why, he actually was in a podcast that's going to support what I'm about to say because he's literally the why guy. Like, why am I doing what I'm doing? What do I want to do in the future? And he said, and this is our core belief, which is it's not hard coming up with the why. It's hard actually executing on the why. And so that prompted us to say, okay, well, what are all the things that get in the way of like you not executing or not pursuing your impossible life? And it's things like fear, money, like all these practical things that just get in the way. And so anyway, so we came up with 12 obstacles. And these are kind of a blend of like our life experience, deep research, and then stories that we can all relate to, like we were talking about earlier. And uh, and so we have at the moment, we have 70, we call them fight tactics. Like, so it's like tactics, things that you can do to fight for your impossible life. And so a lot of these things that I mentioned are things that we've researched and their stories and our personal examples behind them. Um, make it easy as one of them. So just trying it back, tying it back to something we were working on, trying to finish this book, who knows if it'll ever come out, but but that's where it comes from.

Speaker 2 45:40

What advice would you give to the younger generations?

Speaker 3 45:44

I would say, um, I mean, I think this goes back to what we talked about a bit, which is, you know, going through figuring out kind of what you love, what you're good at, and where you'll get paid. So I think that would be one of them. Uh yeah, I think that's the number one thing. I I I uh I think the whole notion of like experimenting evolving, taking a risk now, I think all of that's important. You know, I would say is um God, there's so many places I could go with this. Cause what I'm what I'm reflecting on right now is the conversations that I have with the young men and my kids. And so um, let me just maybe riff on that for a second. Um I I do think that there is a big part of the generation, uh younger generation that feels like they're falling behind. Like, I I don't know if this is true in Europe, but in the United States, like there is a belief that the older generation kind of has it easier.

Speaker 2 46:38

Yeah, it's the same here too.

Speaker 3 46:40

Which once again, I go back to like, I like to meet people where they're at. And so there's probably something really there. Um, I also know that the older generation went through some pretty difficult times too. And so maybe having a little, like if you're in the younger generation, having a little more empathy for where your parents or your grandparents, you know, what they went through, like wars, like significant wars. And I mean, I I find the most, and this is like going way back, but if you were born in 1900, you went through World War I, you went through the Spanish flu, you went through World War II, like the depression, the like I think goes back to like life is hard.

Speaker 5 47:19

Yes.

Speaker 3 47:19

Maybe that's one of the things I would say to the younger generation. Like, if you're going to create the life that you want, just recognizing that life is hard and that you have agency is probably the most impactful thing that you could do. And I don't care what you do, it doesn't matter what you want to do in life. Uh, but at the end of the day, I don't know anybody that probably doesn't want to be self-sustaining and be able to take care of themselves. And in no world have I ever seen where you are reliant on somebody else. And this is not to say that like government and others should not help out people in need. I am not saying that. This is more of a mindset, which is uh the second you start thinking that somebody else is responsible for your happiness or for your sustaining a lifestyle, it just doesn't work out well. And you know what? I actually heard on a podcast today that true, like you know how there's always like money can't buy happiness, which I don't think that's fully, fully true. Like you have to have like some money coming in, some means because you got to sustain it. But I heard somebody say sometimes the most unhappy people are the people that have money that they did not earn. I could not agree with that. Well, I mean, I'm sure there's probably some examples of people that just, you know, I don't know, have our trust fund kid and, you know, are able to enjoy life. But I will tell you one thing I have never gotten anything that's been given to me where it makes me feel like I accomplished something. Right. And so one of the things I would say is find a way to make money and do things that matter in this world. And it will feel 10x better than if somebody else gives it to you. And I think that's probably true, you know, in positions where people, you know, I'll just use the trust find kit where money is just being given to them without regard to whether or not they deserve it or not. Usually they're not as happy. And the problem is we live in this like Instagram generation where everybody is like, oh, well, look at so many so-and-so vacation in Saint Tropez, or what I'm just trying to use in a Europe example, right? Oh, the life must be amazing. And I I said this earlier. I do not think one could be happy at all if there's not something that you're doing meaningful in this life. So if you're trapsing across the world, uh, which I know very few people can, and somebody is paying for that, my instinct tells me that you're not really happy and you're certainly not going to be when you reflect back on your life. Because it is literally those things that you do where you say, ah, you know what, because I was involved with that, I was able to make an impact. Because I was involved with that, I built these relationships with people that are lifelong friends. And so it's like, if I were young, I would be really focusing on like, how am I going to make, and I don't mean this mark on the world. I'm not trying to like be like, go start a business, do something, you know, where, you know, people remember you in a hundred years. But like at the end of the day, when you reflect on your life, you should look back and say, I spent my time doing something that mattered to me and I feel good about it. And if you can't do that, that's a tough place to be. Um, and I go back to the one thing you can't most of the time you cannot do that unless you just accept the fact that it it's gonna require you to act and and have agency for what you do.

Speaker 2 50:46

Yeah. It reminds me of uh Arnold Schwarzenegger's book, uh, Be Useful. I don't know if you've seen it or if you watch the the Netflix uh documentary.

Speaker 3 50:56

He's actually in the book that I've written. So he's for each of the 70, I have a story, but yes. So what were you gonna say, the the story?

Speaker 2 51:03

No, just the be useful that uh you know that he he keeps repeating throughout the book to uh like he is the kind of person who has so much money he doesn't have to do anything. And when he when he gets up in the morning just to to clean the barn and uh with a shovel himself and the feeling of being useful, doing something that matters to someone else, even if it's in his case it might be just the animals, it makes him feel good. And it's uh it's a key to uh to feeling like he his life matters.

unknown 51:36

Yeah.

Speaker 3 51:36

You make me think of two things. One is I'm gonna get maybe a little controversial here, because to some people, Arnold's tainted, right? Because of his marriage to Maria Schreiner. I'm I'm just I I'm not going into that. But like there's a lot of people that have done things in their lives that they probably wish they hadn't, right? And when you're in Arnold Schwarzenegger, like it's gonna be magnified times 100. And I think one of the things that I've learned is that the Arnolds of the world, because that documentary is amazing, his book is amazing, his story is actually even more amazing to see where he came from and how he was able, yeah, you you know the whole story. But I think we start to lose sight of these things that we can learn from these amazing people because we object to something that happened in their life. And it's like the second you start objecting to things that people have done, they're not gonna have a lot of role models to look at. And I think I think there's something that you can take kind of from everyone and be okay with the fact that we're all kind of flawed human beings. And so this is a perfect example. When I read it, I'm like, damn, I think that his story has lost a little bit of its juice because of you know some of the controversy.

Speaker 2 52:50

Yeah, but he's not perfect, and nobody is none of us, none of us is no human being is is perfect, and I think we're not gonna be able to do it.

Speaker 3 52:58

But the problem is society expects everybody to be perfect except for the people.

Speaker 2 53:01

Well, society needs to wake up.

Speaker 3 53:03

Totally, totally. Do you know what you said? Something actually, I'm glad you mentioned this. When I left Deloitte, and this is actually so I would say this is for everybody, um, there this is in this thing I'm writing. The average kid uh plays outside seven minutes a day now in the United States. I don't know what it is elsewhere, it's really bad in the US because everybody's holed up playing video games and whatever. And probably one of the most magical times of my life was after I left Deloitte, I needed something physical, like literally, like I needed to work hard. So you made me think of what Arnold Schwarzenegger said. And so we we have this house in Texas now. And I don't know if you've ever heard the adage, like, everything's bigger in Texas. Well, yeah, our lot is bigger than what it was in California. And so we had this like backyard that needed to be done. And so I spent probably 1,500 to 200, 2,000 hours working on the yard. And I had like tractors and ditch digger, all that stuff. It was the most therapeutic thing that I've ever done of just being outside, you know, working so that like at the end of the day, I would come in and, you know, I'm like in my 50s, I like barely walk in my eyes, like, oh, you're gonna kill yourself. But but it just reconnected me to nature. And it just made me think, oh my God, I spent the best past three decades holed up in an office and not reconnecting with nature. And so how you can reconnect with nature, I think, is critically important.

Speaker 2 54:32

Yeah. Yeah, because evolutionary, we didn't evolve to sit in front of a screen for and and sit inside uh our whole life. And we've only been doing this for the past few decades, and we haven't adopted yet. I don't think we should uh adopt either. I didn't know that seven minutes is the average. That's a really, really sad number.

Speaker 3 54:52

It's really sad. Yeah, I mean, we don't even see like we live in a community with a bunch of kids, and there's a few kids that are riding bikes around, and it's almost more of a novelty. You know, it's like so sad. Anyways, but for for me personally, just reconnecting with nature was important. And um yeah, whatever you can do um to do that, I think is important.

Meditation Health Data And Intentional Days

Speaker 2 55:19

What habit or daily routine has been the most helpful to you?

Speaker 3 55:23

Um, I would say this one has evolved quite a bit. And so I would say if you were talking to me 10 years ago when I was stressed out with work, I really got into meditation, which I know sounds woo-woo. And it's actually kind of like now more commonplace. But I remember at the time I was like, this is the most important thing, even more important than working out, more important than anything for me to thrive uh during the course of the day. And I'll give you a super practical example of how it really helped me. I was in a meeting and I was asked to present, or not even to present, to engage a group of senior leaders at our firm on um ways that we could show up differently in the marketplace. Yes, consulting thing. Um, and I wanted to make it like really creative and like what are different ways that we could do it. And so I brought all these different um really unique examples of what other companies, non-consultants were doing. And I used it more to inspire the group and to have a conversation. And at the end of it, and this was when I was meditating a lot, so that will come into play in a second. And at the end of it, the CEO sits back in his chair, puts his feet up on the table, and said, Did you just waste 30 minutes of my time? And I was like, like, if if it had happened and I wasn't then, I like literally, this is a direct correlation. And I know because I remember in the moment, you know, a lot of meditation is like being able to like, you know, clear your mind and uh create a gap between like stimulus and response. And I was able to do that. I was like, you know, thought clearly, came back with uh a response that was empathetic to what he was saying. Like, listen, what he was saying was I was not giving him what he wanted. Now, could he have done it in a you know more thoughtful way? Sure. But I didn't get so lost in my own thoughts of like, oh my God, he doesn't like me or whatever. I kind of immediately said, this is what he's looking for, and I'm gonna respond in that way. And weirdly, it was probably one of the best things for my career because I responded back and I said, um, here was the purpose of what we were trying to do, just to be clear, but here's what I think you want. And so then I pivoted the conversation. There is zero chance I would have been able to do that if I hadn't been practicing regularly. And, you know, if if if somebody's listening to this and they've never meditated before, it's not woo-woo. Like I literally just, you know, put on some uh calmly music. I've tried every different type. Now I probably just am more like just clear-minded. I just don't think of anything. I don't do like a guided meditation. Um, I don't even have to do it as much anymore as I used to because I think I'm at a different place. But back then, that was critical. I would say um I wasn't gonna go here, but and then this once again may be more tactical, but I think being intentional, uh, it kind of goes back to what I started off with probably a bit ago, where I was like, I was intentional about the 10 years, I would go quarterly, weekly, daily. But I think intentionality is one of the best habits that somebody can develop. Because at the end of the day, like we have a limited amount of time, and there are all the things that you need to get done and want to get done. And unless you're thoughtful about how you spend your day doing whatever it is, you're not going to do it. And so I am even to this day, this is so lame, but like I create a calendar, right? Like, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna work before we jumped on this call, but it'll work out. I've got something I'm gonna go do after this. None of it is stuff I have to do. I mean, that's the weird thing is in my life, there's literally nothing I have to do other than pay my bills and probably treat my family well. But I am probably as intentional as I've ever been in my life right now. And it takes, I don't know, three to five minutes every day because I'm pretty clear on what I want to do. And um, I think with living an intentional life, you're able to get the things that you want to get done, done and just live a better life because you're focused on the things that matter to you. And then I would say, you know, once again, I think these a lot of these things are so basic, but health. Like I go back to like, you need to treat your health like it's the most important thing. And maybe just to go beyond like some of the traditional things, I think the thing that's so exciting about health now, and I don't know if this is true where you are, but like in the United States, it's like the United States healthcare system's horrible and it's great at the same time. Horrible because everybody doesn't have access to it, but it's incredible because you know, some of the greatest medical interventions are here. Yeah. And so here's a here's a perfect example. So I guess where I'm going with this is taking control of your own health. And where I have done that is there's this company, and I'll promote it because it's like, and I I get nothing from this called functional health in the United States. And basically, for a very nominal fee, I think it's 335 US dollars. So it's not, it's not nothing, but you get um 130 different tests that are done through your blood. And so when you compare that to what I traditionally get when I just go and get my physical, it's literally like 5x the number of things. And so the point of what I'm getting at is I'm taking, I'm using that, taking responsibility for my health, like nobody else is doing it. And then I'm using it to make sure that my daily habits are in check. And so, like, you know, exercise and things like that are critically important, but also just what are the supplements I take? Like I was low in omega-3, take omega-3 now. My cholesterol is high. Now I'm doing things to address that. But I think that what I'm saying is like being super proactive about your health and taking control of it, especially in the world we live in, you have to look a little bit for it. And maybe you have to, I have to go outside of kind of the traditional medical system here. But the resources are vast and they're there, and it's pretty exciting. So that's another another thing that I I do.

Hard Times Action Beats Rumination

Speaker 2 1:01:38

What is the best way to overcome difficulties or hardship?

Speaker 3 1:01:43

Um, yeah, you're gonna hear some themes. Uh, first of all, you are not alone. I mean, I'm gonna keep coming here. Like, if I I believe that there's two types of people in this world. I think there are people that are open at expressing the hard stuff that they're going through. Like I was not open, like shared my mom's uh passing because of alcoholism. I was not open to that 30 years ago. That was like something that I was ashamed of, that I hid from the world, but now I'm better with it. And then there's been other, you know, things that I've gone through over the last 10 years that I'm very open at sharing with people. So that's one group. And then there's the other group which they don't share anything. And I'm not saying there's one, there's it's not right or wrong. Like I am not advocating if you don't like to share the stuff that's going on in your life. That is totally your personal opinion. My point of saying it is we're all going through hard stuff. We are all. So the question then is if we all just understand that, you know, your life's not better than mine, we're all kind of going through this stuff. Your problems may be different than mine, but it's all there. I think that's the first important recognition. You are not special. Like I had a friend, oh my God, I was going through something with one of my kids, and he was a person I relied on, which this is actually one of the things I would say. You know, if you can get therapy or whatever, that's great. What I found during the hard times is connecting with people in my circle that are going through something similar, um, because I could just have a conversation. So this is the guy that I'm talking about. And he had a situation similar to mine, but he also had his wife, who just passed away three or four months ago, our age, which was actually one of my colleagues that I put in that post. And um, so he had the issue I was going through, which I'm not gonna really talk about because it's not my story. He had his wife who was, you know, had terminal cancer, 10 years going through, you know, chemotherapy. And then he had a daughter that had like these grandma seizures happening all the time. So my point is, I was like, damn, his name's Kevin. Your life is like like, I have nothing to complain about. Your life is five times harder. So, anyways, it's just always refreshing just to recognize that we're all going through it. And so, you know, when you start with like, well, how do you overcome hardship? My first answer would be, you're not special. You are not special, unfortunately, so, because everybody else is dealing with it. So that's the first thing. The other thing I would say is, and I mentioned this earlier, I am a serial ruminator. Okay. So say like something is going bad in my life. My MO for most of my life had been sit around, right? Like sit in my bed, think about all the bad things that could happen, play them out in my mind 50 different ways, stress about it, and then feel really bad. And the one thing I have found, and maybe this may be the most important thing I'm gonna say in the entire conversation. It's super basic, but I think it's also getting away from just kind of how we had to operate, you know, um, in the past, and that is to act. Most things, most difficulties in your life, I can't, I'm not gonna say can be solved, but there is something beyond just ruminating that you can do, right? Whatever it is. And so to me, I think action always beats thinking about it. And so I'm not saying don't like strategize and don't think about options, but I guess where I'm going is don't overthink about it. And if it's something that you have zero control over, you know, just recognize that. But most things we have some agency in how, you know, we can move forward. So take um, this is not my example, but let's just say you had an older parent, you know, that had memory issues, right? You could think about like all of the difficulties, why me? How is this happening? You know, what are all the bad things that potentially could come out of this? Or you could do something about it. And that could be like, what would be the the best place to put that individual? You know, is there any circumstance where you could have them live with? You like just all the different options and then figure it out and then act. And I think what holds people back so many times, and I think this applies everywhere in life, is they're really damn, they're really, really good thinking about it. They're really bad executing. And one of the things, the last thing I'll say on this is if there is one issue that my clients have nowadays, once again, I go back to it's easy to come up with that dream, that impossible life. It's really hard for them to act. And I I have clients that, you know, will come jump on a call, you know, it's been two weeks, and we had mapped out all these things that we could do, and they're right back to where they are. And I'm like, okay, we talked about this. What is holding you back from acting? And it's usually, well, this could turn out bad, or what would so-and-so think? And they just don't pull the trigger, or they don't just don't do it. And what I oftentimes talk about is like, you know, what, okay, what microactions can you take? Something so that you're moving forward. And then also goes back to one of the other things I said is, you know, you can learn and evolve. It's not like you're boxed in just because you take that action. It's like you take an action, you get a result, you evaluate the result, you take the next action. And so to me, that's like the most important thing. It's like recognize, going back to your question, recognize the fact that you're not alone and then figure out the things that you can act upon rather than thinking about it or overthinking it and acting. Then when you act, you take the information, then you take the next action, the next action. And then, you know, try to get comfortable with the things that are outside of your control. I mean, that's maybe the most difficult part.

Gratitude People And A Happier Life

Speaker 2 1:07:46

What should we focus on if we want a happy life?

Speaker 3 1:07:50

Okay, so I would say the first thing that you should focus on is be satisfied with what you have. That's not to say like you shouldn't want more, but I think we oftentimes get into our head when, and especially with social media and looking at what everybody else has, that we want more. I've got a friend that literally built like a dream home in a mountain town in the United States. And by any measure, it'd probably be one of the best houses I've ever been into. Okay. The challenge is, is they've got a home that's much not smaller, but you know, if you're to compare it to the other homes that are in this dream community, it's smaller and it doesn't have all the other things. And then they find themselves in this trap of like, you know, comparing themselves to their neighbors that have something else when if all they had was their house, or if their house was similar to everybody else's, they would be ecstatic, right? And it's and they fall into this trap of it's not enough. And then they get in their head and they're like, I'm not happy. And you're like, you've got like the most beautiful house I've ever been into. Um, and so I think one of the key things is just being satisfied with what you have. But I find myself doing this too, and I'm a pretty minimalistic person. But the second I start to double down on like, oh my God, I've got a wonderful family. Yes, we've got problems or we've got challenges like everybody else, like we've talked about. I've got wonderful friends, I've got a wonderful house, I've got a wonderful life. It's, I guess gratitude probably is the other end of it. But I think just, you know, being satisfied with what you have and not necessarily always pushing for more. The other thing is I would say having limited expectations. Um, and there is a lot of science behind this because you ever go on a trip or you ever do something where you had no expectations that something good happened and you're like, that was the most amazing thing, right? Yeah. Or compare that to you go on a trip and like, I don't know, something happened with the flights delayed, the flights canceled, which in the grand scheme of your trip is not that big of a deal. But then it potentially like negatively impacts your trip because your expectation was I was gonna get there at one o'clock. I was gonna be able to go out on the beach, whatever it is, life is about expectations. And I would say, you know, if you want a happy life, if you set your expectations low, or you just don't have expectations, it's gonna allow for life to happen and it's probably gonna be better than what you would have thought anyway. And so to me, I think that the the better you can kind of not have these grandiose expectations, grandiose expectations of yourself or others, how many relationships, actually, this is probably a good example. How many relationships fall apart because you expect your spouse or your significant other to act, operate, or say or do something in a certain way, right? And it's not that they're a bad person. It's maybe they didn't do things exactly the way you had it cooked up in your mind. And if you just love them and you had less expectations that maybe it worked out well. Now, that's not to say, like, I mean, obviously you should have expectations that your stout treats you well and says nice things to you, but I think sometimes things go kind of sideways because you have these grand expectations. And so I would say, um, you know, limited expectations. I would say also, you know, happy life. Um, this may be one of the most important, surround yourself with the right people, which there's the flip side of that. And this is maybe not gonna work well with some people, but like there are people that we keep in our lives that are toxic that oftentimes bring us down, make us feel bad about ourselves. And I think you need to reset your relationship with them. So if it's an acquaintance, done, in my opinion. Like if it's just somebody that, you know, maybe is sort of friend, kind of acquaintance, I wouldn't invest any energy into them. Um and I would move on from that. And then, you know, there could be like if it's a boss, well, you may need to figure out, you know, how to navigate that. And probably one of the most prickly is family. And I even think family, you know, family sometimes can be, you know, divisive to the life you're trying to lead, um, corrosive to life you're trying to lead. And so um, resetting maybe your relationship with them as well. And so um, yeah, I would say that that's important. It's like surround yourself with the right people. I mean, I think there was like, was it Jim Rome or somebody had a quote? It's like, you are the five people who you spend the most time with. And if you spend time with people who are toxic and make you feel bad about yourself, you're probably not gonna feel very happy. And so to me, that would be key. And then I think I um I had mentioned earlier, do something that's meaningful. Like I think, you know what's interesting? I may have mentioned this in that post as well. Vacations for me hit way differently.

Speaker 1:12:43

Yes, you did.

Speaker 3 1:12:45

I I said that. And and the reason being is because I actually really like my life now. And I think before vacation was kind of like an escape. Do you know what I mean? Like an escape from this life that was good, but wasn't perfect. And so it was awesome to go escape to a vacation. Now vacations are like they're they're fine. Um and I I don't I don't know if they're as enjoyable as they once were, because I am doing something that I really love kind of when I'm not on vacation. And so for me, I I think if like if you think of like just doing um these pursuits that are hollow, they're not gonna make you happy. And if you don't somehow combine, and I'm not suggesting not to do things that are fun, adventuresome, you know, vacation, I'm not suggesting at all that. But if you don't have something that you're working towards where you're making an impact in a way, I was gonna say on this world, it doesn't even have to be on this world. If you're not making an impact that makes you feel good about yourself, it's hard to enjoy that all other stuff. And so as much as you want to pursue kind of all of those pleasurable things, if you're not doing something that makes you feel good, it's not gonna be really an enjoyable life. And I could say that because there have been times over the last four years where maybe I didn't have as much of that in my life, but I could go travel and do whatever I want as much as as I I want. I wasn't as happy. And I think it ultimately came back to it's like, I need to feel good about, you know, the the what I'm doing in this world. Whether or not it really makes that big a difference. I just need to, by own my own metrics, feel good about it.

Speaker 2 1:14:21

I think so many people leave for the weekend and they ignore the uh the everyday. And they just it's difficult to get out of this though, isn't it?

Speaker 3 1:14:32

Uh yes. I the reason why I'm pausing is the uh and because I'm on the other side, right? So it's easy. And what the the the other thing I would say, don't ever take advice from somebody that's like, you know, when things are going extremely well for them. So it's like, no, it's really not that hard in my mind. But if I were to put myself back 20 years ago, I'd be like, it's the hardest thing in the world. Um, and so what I would say though, is it wasn't until I got super clear on what I wanted and put together uh or executed on the plan um that I came up with. And so I would argue it's hard to do in terms of what you need to do on a daily basis. It goes back to that. Like I got a client right now, he wants to change his career. You're at 50. Okay. Not easy to do. And so there's a lot of trade-offs, I guess, associated with that. There's trade-offs in terms of what he theoretically could make, right? Because he may go somewhere else. There's trade-offs in terms of uh where he may need to live. There's just a bunch of trade-offs. The path is not that difficult, though, to come up with like, what are the things that you would need to do to reinvent yourself and do something differently? The the challenge is how do you make that happen on a day-to-day basis? And I just go back to what trips most people up is they are really good at coming up with this euphoric vision of where they want to go, but then they don't have the fortitude or the habits in order to execute it on a daily basis. So to your point, your question is, isn't it hard to do? It ain't hard to come up with it. It's really hard to do on a daily basis. And I think it's those people that commit to it, get out of their head, similar thing, and just start taking action. And and I would say the one lather thing um is it's not necessarily major action. And that's one of the things that my conversation ultimately boils down to them with is like, all we're talking about is you to have three conversations with these people we've identified this week. There is no expectation beyond that. Like they may all fizzle, or maybe they'll lead to another conversation, or maybe it'll lead to something amazing. But all we're talking about is having three conversations. And so that's why it goes to one of the things I talked about earlier, too, is like play the long game. Like, if you really want your life, if you're sitting there and you're like, I really want a different life in the next five years, there's a lot that can happen over a five-year period of time. The problem is, and this is another cliche, it's like people expect everything to happen within a day or two. That ain't gonna happen. But if you play the long game and you just keep doing the little things, you'll look back, like you'll step back and you look back on your life and be like, oh my God, look at how much I've accomplished over the last five years. I'm leading a very different life. Um, but that takes a lot of discipline to do the things on a daily basis. I sometimes wonder what question I'm answering. I'm like going off on all these tangents.

Speaker 2 1:17:32

Well, I've only got one more left for you.

Regrets Family Empathy And Closing

Speaker 2 1:17:41

Looking back on your life, is there anything you regret or anything that you would do differently if you had the chance?

Speaker 3 1:17:49

Okay, so this is where I was like getting caught up a few minutes ago. This is uh yes. Okay, so the answer would be um uh for the most part, no. I would say there's nothing, although I will give maybe a couple of small examples just so that I can answer the question and I and at least give a couple nuggets because I think it's uh probably insincere to say there's nothing I would do differently. But I would say this is the uh conversation that I was listening to. Um, and so I'm stealing this from um somebody else. But it is so true when I heard him say it, I was like, oh my God, that's exactly uh I wouldn't change major things about my life. Like, you know, I thought I was gonna go uh be a pilot when I was younger. Well, I'm not a pilot, and that's okay. So it's not like I'm like, oh, I wish I could go back 35 years and, you know, change the trajectory of my life by pursuing being a pilot. No. Um, what I do wish is that I was a little lighter in my day-to-day, that I didn't get frustrated or upset at situations or um, you know, judgmental of people or whatever. I just wish I I didn't take myself so seriously. And I wish I just kind of enjoyed a lighter journey. And that's what I'm stealing from this guy because I'm like, yeah. And so it's not about what I did, it's about how I, how I pursued the journey, is probably what I would say. I wish I did differently. And um, and I think that's probably just maturing, you know, as an adult and learning how to kind of manage your mindset and manage your emotions and all that good stuff. But if I had the chance, if somebody could wave a magic wand and I could go back, I would say, I wish I was just a little lighter in everything in my life, which I'm working on still. Maybe in 30 years, if you ask that question, I would say, well, that's not an issue now because I've done a better job. Um, but I do, okay, so so two really practical, because I was thinking about this. I wish I recognized. So this is like a super, if I could do one thing really different, that's not just, you know, living kind of a lighter life. I wish I recognized the hardships my parents had and why the reason why they were the way they were.

Speaker 5 1:20:05

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:20:06

And like I, you know, once again, my mom was an alcoholic. And so it's like all I saw was like from like 10 to 20, her just killing herself literally on a daily basis. And so there's some judgment associated with that. And uh, you know, like, why would you do that? Like, what are you thinking? You got a family, blah, blah, blah. And uh, and I'm not making excuses for her or alcoholism, I'm not doing it, but like I wish I just had more empathy for her in the moment and I understood what was creating the situation that she was in. And once again, I'm not making excuses for her, I'm not doing that. And then I would say same for my my dad. My dad was like an Irish, um, like hardcore Irish policeman in the United States. And, you know, I don't think I really understood the world he was enveloped in. And I would the only thing I ever got close was once he said to me, well, I said to him, Michael, God, why are you so judgmental? Why are you so like, why are you gonna ask everybody? Like, you you don't trust anybody. And he said, you know, Mike, I see the worst in people every single day. So I expect the worst out of everybody. And it was that time where I was like, oh my God, the things he sees is not the things that I see on a daily basis. And so it just made me realize like, super easy to judge people, you know, that maybe you feel wrong by. Once again, I don't feel wrong by my parents, but that that that you judge them, but you don't know the full story.

Speaker 5 1:21:34

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:21:34

And I think I wish I just learned or poked into the full story a little more. I think it would have given me a little more, once again, empathy and sympathy for kind of what they were going through. So I really wish I did that. And so that's one of the reasons why I try to do that better now. I'm probably not that good. And then I mentioned that the only other thing I would say is if I could do anything differently, I do think that there is this notion of like still thriving in my career, but being around more, meaning with my family. I talked about that. Like, I think that's one thing I would change. And I quite frankly, it's funny. I think in the moment I was like, oh, you know, if I don't go on this business trip, if I don't go to this meeting, it's gonna negatively impact my career. I probably really thought that in a moment. And you know what? It probably didn't, didn't help my career at all. And so I mean, I think if anything, I wish I was more mindful of that in the moment. But listen, I live a blessed life. I'm very happy with where I'm at. So at the end of the day, I'm happy with all the decisions I made.

Speaker 2 1:22:31

Mike, thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for uh sharing your thoughts with us. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 1:22:39

This is good. Thank you for having me. I love I love what you've done. I love the concept, I love the questions. Um, hopefully this helps some people.

Speaker 1:22:54

Thank you for listening. This was the Zest File Show. Take what resonates, leave but doesn't. And remember, life is precious. Make the most of it. Until next time.