Yahweh’s Money®️: The Crossroads of Religion & Money

Dealing with the Dilemma of Debt after the Holidays

• Shay Cook & Vanessa McNelley • Season 2 • Episode 46

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Tired of the fiscal hangover that follows every festive spree? Join Shay Cook & Vanessa McNelley as they tackle the dreaded post-holiday debt with a battle plan that promises to not only restore your bank balance but also your peace of mind. They are dishing out a hefty dose of reality paired with uplifting guidance on budgeting without the boredom, and the mental boost that comes from wiping out debt. Reflecting on the wise words from Romans 13:7-8, they connect the dots between moral obligations and financial freedom, ensuring that you're prepared to face the music and dance your way out of the red.

As your financial confidants, they are not just preaching from the pulpit—they are sharing their tales of triumph over the trials of debt and how embracing a disciplined lifestyle now can lead to a more jubilant jingle in your pockets later. Dive into their treasure trove of tips for creative saving as they discuss the wonders of holiday club accounts and the magic of post-holiday sales. With their practical advice on planning ahead for future festivities, they guarantee you'll be decking the halls stress-free next season, armed with the wisdom and wit to celebrate without the credit card hangover. Join them for an episode that's more than just advice—it's a lifeline to financial fortitude.

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Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!

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Shay:

I'm sure many of us know someone, if not you, who's felt uncomfortable talking about religion and money or just have fillings of shame or guilt about it. Welcome to Yahweh's Money, a podcast where we discuss the crossroads or intersections of religion and money. We're going to go deep into topics like tithing and saving and debt and so much more from the religious view. I'm your host, Shay Cook, CEO and founder, Crusaders for Change LLC, and our co-host is Vanessa McNelley, one of our financial counselor coach educators. Let's talk about God and money. Hey, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's Money. Hey, Vanessa, how are you today?

Vanessa:

I am good, Shay, and I guess welcome to 2024.

Shay:

Oh, yay, oh my God, we made it through. Thank you, Jesus. Lord, I'm just going to claim it in the name of Jesus, even though we're recording in 2020. We're making it to 2024, because that's God's will and it's amazing, but today we're going to talk about a heavy kind of topic dealing with the dilemma of debt after the holidays. Oh Lord, you might hit some nerves with some people, because we know people around November and December.

Vanessa:

they like to spend a lot of money on themselves and family friends. A lot of fun, a lot of fun, a lot of fun.

Shay:

So, while many of us are recovering from the holiday festivities and we hope that you had a wonderful time with your family, a peaceful time, a lovely time some of us are dealing with the aftermath of the holiday that we accumulate as a result of our holiday spending. So last year, according to the 2023 Lending Tree Survey, 35% of Americans had debt from the 2022,. Sorry Lord, holiday shopping season. That's crazy, man. We're still paying on our debt. The majority of the respondents estimated it would take five months and I think it probably takes longer. People are lying to pay off their debt. So are you dealing with the hangover of holiday debt? If so, let's talk about a plan and pay it off and plan for next year, so you don't have that Christmas past haunting your Christmas present.

Vanessa:

I love that.

Shay:

So in Romans 13, seven through eight, it says give to everyone what you owe them. If you owe taxes, pay taxes. You better pay your taxes, people, okay. So if revenue, then revenue. If respect, then respect. If honor, then honor. So, Vanessa, oh, my God, I know what do you think about this?

Vanessa:

I will say first off was it worth it? Was it worth all this presents.

Shay:

Oh, that's good. That's good. Was it worth it?

Vanessa:

Are you still feeling that wonderful cheer that you felt two months ago? Most of us wouldn't be, honestly, and most people I don't think they really appreciate what we're giving them anyway. So it doesn't matter if you're giving them a $5 gift or a $500 gift for most people.

Vanessa:

But yeah, I think that's the thing about this when we get in that season and everything is just so happy and there's the music and there's all the cells, and it puts us in this mood of we want to give even when we can't give or we don't have the ability to give, in the way that we see everyone else kind of out there just giving out and handing out things.

Vanessa:

It seems like it just kind of puts us in this mode of okay, we'll deal with this later because we're having a good time now and we can do that or see that in lots of different aspects of our life. I think too. But yeah, I mean, realistically, we have to think forward and think ahead and think about how this is going to impact things, and paying what we owe to people, in whatever capacity that is, should take priority over giving new things. Taking care of what we owe first and that is so hard for most people to understand Is that we need to be free and clear first before we start making those other purchases or whatever we're doing out there. But when we do that, it's gonna put us in a headspace too, where we're like okay, everything's handled, I'm gonna be okay, and that's some relief, such a relief.

Shay:

Yeah, exactly, and creating those memories too right. You can create memories for free. Exactly, it doesn't cost time. It may cost time, but it doesn't cost money for a lot of memories. Yeah, of course some people wanna embellish them and make them more fabulous and all that. But just having a conversation with somebody, just spending time with somebody, exactly, I mean just reminiscing whatever it may be, doing a craft project that's a little cheaper than whatever it may look like there's other ways to celebrate with people and not have holiday dates, but hey, people have holiday dates.

Shay:

So some tips to getting started and paying off your debt. We always talk about it and people probably tired of hearing us talk about it, but you gotta create a budget, I mean you gotta plan to identify areas where you can cut back and allocate more funds toward debt repayment. Again, we talked about in our last episode having that discipline, that sacrifice. You might have to sacrifice something.

Shay:

So I think, that's what you need to think before you start buying for the holidays. Do you wanna sacrifice for five months, as the survey say, or longer, cause you're gonna have to cut back if you're not making more money? Exactly yeah, you're running yourself into a hole.

Vanessa:

Right. Well, and I think part of this, too, is we do talk about budgeting or spending plans often, and that's because everything comes back to what do you have coming in and what do you have going out? And if we don't know those things, how do we know how much we can spend on things?

Shay:

and what we need to save.

Vanessa:

We have no clue. We have absolutely no clue, we're just spending recklessly. So knowing those things gives us an advantage to kind of go into the season and say, okay, realistically, this is my budget and it's okay to stick within those limits.

Shay:

And that's the best way is to do it before the holiday season. But we're now. We're in January. So, we're talking about those that have it and I agree, and as well as just oh man, the spend plan is very important. And then also listing the debt that you owe and considering some kind of repayment strategy plan, whether it's the snowball method or avalanche method, but a smart goal, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, timely or time bound goal of when you meant it, when you can pay off that debt. That is very, very important. Yeah, yeah.

Vanessa:

And I think, with this too, a lot of people they forget what sacrifice feels like and they forget that it's okay to sacrifice.

Shay:

Yeah, so when?

Vanessa:

you're repaying or you're doing some kind of debt repayment. It is gonna take a sacrifice and you have to mentally be ready for that too.

Shay:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

So preparing yourself and getting ready and making this list and sitting down and saying, okay, this isn't gonna be fun. I did this, though, I'm gonna own it and I'm gonna make a plan. I'm gonna stick to it, even if it means like, for the next two or three months, I'm not going out with my friends on the weekend. Whatever that might look like or be, and there are still other ways to have fun and enjoy yourself. It's just kind of changing things around a little bit. But you have to be mentally there.

Shay:

You have to be mentally there and just because you have a five $10,000 credit card, I mean, hey, you spend all on it, you spend it, you max it out, just realize you have to pay it. And the credit card companies make it easy because they have you pay this $10. I mean, well, I guess for a $5,000, it's probably gonna be like $100 payment.

Shay:

But you still. That's $100. You probably didn't have in your budget. Hopefully you did. But if you wanna pay more, then where are you gonna find that money? Like we said, you're gonna have to make more money or pull from somewhere else to sacrifice when you could have just saved. You know I ain't trying to shame nobody, but you know you could have for the future.

Vanessa:

You should consider saving for that and remember how you feel in this moment and use that in the future, because it's gonna be hard to remember these things later on when they're paid off and, you know, next year when we go through this again and we haven't saved again and we wanna buy all these things again.

Shay:

You know, remember how you felt after the fact and use that to your advantage Exactly and explore options to consolidate high interest debts into lower interest loans or transfer to a credit card with a 0% introductory rate to save on interest rates. So I'm not a big fan of most people doing this because if you're not disciplined and you don't close the other card, which will also mess up your credit if you do close it so there's like this is a little more complicated than just getting some. I have a lot of family and friends and clients that are like, oh, I just put it on a 0% and they keep doing that Robin, peter, pay, paul, and you know that's the complicated situation. But you know it may work for you. But definitely call Crucifixated for change if you're thinking about that.

Shay:

It's not. It's not as simple as that, but you know looking for opportunities to increase your income, whether it's asking for a raise, working overtime, a part time job or a side hustle. The extra funds earned can be put towards paying off debt.

Vanessa:

And this again takes sacrifice by giving it more of your time. But exactly, but there's an accomplishment factor with that too. So you know, you giving up some of your time to get this paid off and get it done, you're going to feel so much better about it, so much better. And there's so many part time gigs out there right now. We have so many opportunities right now to have a side hustle or have a part time job or have another you know, full time job. If you're able to kind of get that done and I always tell our clients it's temporary, it's not a forever, you're just going to do this for a short season to get yourself back on track. But look at it as it's not a full time forever solution. It's just going to be something you do to get yourself out of this hole and then it's going to be over. So that again take sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice, sacrifice.

Shay:

We were just talking earlier this week, vanessa, or last week about overtime and how people you know have that opportunity around the holiday season to work those extra hours and get that overtime or even double time and able to save or pay off that and I think that's really cool if your employer offers that a lot of them don't.

Shay:

But that's awesome, and you know I reach out to your creditors and negotiate lower interest rates. Some might be willing to negotiate lower rates or work out a more manageable payment plan to get you back on track and, as we mentioned over and over, seek help. Financial professionals like C4C. Cresce is, for change, a nonprofit credit counseling agency. They can really help you analyze your debt, create an action plan or you don't have to try to figure this out on your own. You know there are people out there to help. But you know, I would say definitely, god is here to support you and you need to have a conversation, like Vanessa saying you know, think about how you're feeling during this moment, after, before, during, after accumulating all this debt. Have a conversation with God and see how you can improve in the future.

Vanessa:

And we're not supposed to do things alone. You know we are creatures who need interaction, so having somebody to be accountable to and with that's a great thing too. So utilize those people around you that are doing the right things, number one, and those people who are professionals, like you, know like we do and like we are, because we try to live what we preach as well. So use people who have been there and done that and they know what it takes and what it's what it's going to take you to go through this and they know it's going to be a sacrifice. But utilize people who have been there because they're going to be your best support, because they understand.

Shay:

They understand. It's so true, and I'm sure you're making your debt payments on time and paying more than the minimum to save on interest. The last thing you want is this all the holiday debt to negatively impact your credit. Refrain from using credit, if possible, until you have paid off your debt, which I know is hard for a lot of people. But you know it's smart to try to refrain and cut back during that time of paying off because you're just you're just going on a cycle and it's a vicious cycle, right, you're?

Vanessa:

adding fuel to the fire at that point. You're not going to see. You know the benefits of all these changes you've made, because the bill just keeps staying the same or going up.

Shay:

You know I used to have family members shame me for wanting cause. I would get credit cards and I would sacrifice to pay them all. And they're like why are you doing that? You know they like really I got so much shame coming from so many family members. And I'm just like to this day, and it's like dude really, and you wonder why I'm where I am and where you are right now. Hello, that's my ego.

Shay:

You know, but the spirit is saying hey, no, Shay, you did the right thing. I sacrifice, I ate very plainly. We cooked at home, like for years we didn't eat out a lot. I didn't buy clothes for years, Like when I was trying to pay off my studio loans, when I was talking about paying saving for Hawaii. Like I know how to sacrifice when it comes to saving money like and paying off debt, and you see the benefits in that too.

Shay:

Yeah exactly and it's like a really. It's not an instant reward, but it's nice to see that account dwindle down, that debt dwindle down. Know that. You know there's so many calculators out there that you can use and see exactly when you're going to pay it off and you know always shut out power pay.

Shay:

I love that I use that for debt repayment and you know our clients we use that for our clients too, and it was just so cool being able to see my studio loan pay off that $65,000 in almost less than four years, because I literally every single tax refund that we got that, you know, or after we paid, like an insurance bill or something like that, put that every award or reward from work or performance award, every increase in the job. I always put all that money towards there and, yeah, I could have been using that for new cars and new whatever new clothes, but I just like no, I want to pay my debt off.

Shay:

And so that was a great feeling to know that I would have that paid off, pay my car off a few years ago, and now I'm able to put that money towards my daughter's college at one time and now other things, and so it's really cool to be able to have that opportunity.

Vanessa:

Well, and you see the light at the end of the tunnel, so you know when this is going to be over and you can kind of get back to life as usual or as normal If you want to get back to that type of a lifestyle.

Vanessa:

But knowing when it's going to end and when the sacrifice is going to end, that's huge, because you see that it's not forever and you see that it's just that short season, so you know, knowing when it's going to happen. I have seen so many clients are like oh my gosh, it's only going to take 15 months, it's only going to take two years, Like that is such a blessing to know that date and time.

Shay:

It really is. I know when I did one thing, a debt repayment plan, like two decades ago, I said three years and I was like, oh my God, I was three years went by quick had everything paid off.

Shay:

And it's like it took more than three years to accumulate the debt. So I should. Why wouldn't I expect to be able to pay it off in three years? You know, and then you get, you know, and when you really get into the mode of paying off debt whether it's holiday debt or any kind of other debt it's like man, it just kicks you into gear. Your mind is like okay, I can put a little bit more here.

Shay:

I could do this, let me pull from here. I mean, you really get into like a little game Like you're just like let's pay this off and let's get done with it. You know, especially if you're a patient like me, I'm like I ain't waiting, no, three years, let me just pay it off in two and a half even, or two years and nine months. Whatever it is to try to not meet the three years.

Vanessa:

You know, money has always been a game for me, like that too, and it's like okay, I set budgets for myself, but if I don't use all the funds in those budgets, I take that extra leftover money and I put it towards something fun, exactly.

Vanessa:

So it's like, okay, everything goes in my travel fund or everything goes towards you know whatever else I wanna buy, but it's usually going somewhere, because that's just how I roll with things. But yeah, but it can be a game and it can be a fun game and especially if you're you know, if you have a partner that you're spending money with or saving money with you know it can be a fun little game between the two of you to see you know who can do more on less. You know, have some fun date nights at home, that kind of thing. But yeah, it can be used as a fun game and you can get pretty creative.

Shay:

You really can. You really can. You really can. So what can you put into plan now to avoid finding yourself in the same situation next year, from the end of 2024, which is like project out, it's November, it's December 2024. How do we not get into the debt then you know what do we do. So I would say first make a list of who you're intending to buy for next year, the amount you would spend for each person. Keep a journal, what you're spending and definitely start saving.

Vanessa:

Yes, and plan, plan, plan and have a contingency plan, because things always pop up. We get invited to like two last minute parties. We have to have two or three gifts for those things. You know, there's something our kid has to be in because of the holidays and they have to have a new costume for that, or whatever it might be. Those things add up so quickly, so quickly, and we say, oh gosh, we weren't expecting them. But we know, in the back of our minds what usually pops up, and there's usually a couple of things.

Vanessa:

Or you know, we're hosting Christmas dinner this next year or whatever it might be. We can kind of project and kind of see what's going to be coming down the pipeline and start saving ahead of time and putting something aside. I mean, people used to do what was like Christmas club or you could like.

Shay:

I was about to say now you read in my mind. You're saying everything I want to say right now. But yes, the holiday, the club accounts, the credit unions and even banks now have different accounts.

Vanessa:

You can rename them.

Shay:

Different savings yeah, I love that, yeah.

Vanessa:

So just start putting something away, you know. Start living on a little less now so that when those times happen you're ready and you know you're going to feel so much better, just like Shay, paying things off before they're due, you know, and just having that feeling of accomplishment, like you don't have to find yourself in the same position next year because you plan ahead.

Shay:

I love the idea with the food because I think a lot of people forget the small things the food, the Christmas, the present wrapping whatever the little things that you're going to need Right. Always, for years after Christmas, I would go shopping for Christmas stuff, you know I love, like we were just decorating the tree. Finally, yes, it's like this year, but it's decorating the tree and I was like, oh, we need some LED lights. Okay, so after Christmas, during the Christmas 70, 90 percent sales, I will go get lights for the next year Exactly.

Shay:

So you know, I just think that I'll always love that and I will go to like Kmart and Walmart or whoever, just to get that you know those cheaper items, less expensive, those things that are on sale.

Shay:

Yeah it's 12 months out. So what Then? I have it for next year and it's so much cheaper. So, like spacing out your shopping, you know, spreading out shopping so you're not spending a large amount of money all at once. After the holiday shopping, a lot of merchandise, as I just said, is deeply discounted so, and so they can get rid of the inventory and also found some stores like in, like September, october, their stuff is deeply discounted because you know they're going to have stuff coming in and around December and December, so I found stuff at like Hobby Lobby and all these other places around here like 50 percent off.

Vanessa:

Right, right, yeah. And you know, if you have space, that's a wonderful thing to do. I know some people don't have the space to put things away, exactly. So that's something that I've done. Forever, too is after Christmas. I will go in by the wrapping paper that I'm going to use the next year.

Vanessa:

You know just a few little things, and I always buy a couple of extra gifts that can sit in my closet and sometimes they don't even look like holiday gift sets, so it might be something you know that I could use for someone's birthday in February. But planning ahead, getting those items that are deeply discounted and kind of putting them away, I have this thing I call it my prize closet and I have gifts in there, and you know not to say that I don't buy very specific gifts for certain people when it's warranted.

Vanessa:

But sometimes you just want a cute little something to give somebody because you know they've had a hard month or whatever that might be. So I have things that are set aside, that have cost me very little and it looks like, you know, I've really put some thought into it which I did ahead of time. But you know it's nice to have those things kind of set aside because it doesn't come out of your budget. Then Exactly.

Shay:

That's so true, you know. And then it's also say comparison shop always right. And sometimes I go a little too overboard in comparison shop and sometimes I spend especially when I was shopping for myself or my house or like family, like I just like.

Shay:

Sometimes I just go down this rabbit hole of trying to find the best value, the best review, you know. So don't go crazy like Shay, but definitely want a comparison shop, because I'm telling you, I just saw this painting at this value city furniture store here in Maryland and I was like I probably can find that somewhere cheaper. You know, I'm like just get it now. I'm like nope, cause I might find it cheaper and I might find something else I like. So I just I don't like to buy the first thing, right, I like to do my comparison shopping, my reviewing of everything I don't know, so I get the best quality and all that good stuff. So I take my time, I don't rush, especially if it's big purchases. Sometimes I take way too long, though, but we did say, join a holiday savings club account.

Shay:

Credit unions have these. Try to use all cash If you're worried about putting things on credit because you may not be able to pay it off over and all you know, an all cash holiday shopping goal is an option, you know, and I love that. I love to give cash, especially to my nieces and nephews, sometimes like, cause you know I'm giving cash, so then I know I'm not giving, putting it on my credit card Exactly, and so and I'm not talking about no gift cards people, I'm giving cash money, dollar bills, yeah, and it helps to keep you in budget, because when that cash is gone, it's gone, yeah.

Vanessa:

So that's something to think about too is trying to use cash. I know that's harder these days because a lot of people don't take cash when you're buying things. But yeah, I mean, especially if you can give cash as gifts. I mean a lot of people like to buy their own presents and get exactly what they want, so never a bad idea.

Shay:

Never a bad idea, and you know this is one of my favorite ones, because my husband always makes fun of me about this but, using your credit card rewards. About 70% of people fail to use them, which is crazy.

Vanessa:

I would never I know.

Shay:

I've always used my credit card reward, yeah, and my husband used to make fun of me because every time we would go somewhere, oh, I'll pay for it out of my credit card. He's like, okay, I'll say, oh, I'll pay for it out of my credit card. And I always pay my credit card off, yeah, before, then, on, you know, or before interest was due. And he's like and then he saw me getting all these gift cards in the mail and all this. And he's like, oh, that's what you're doing. He's like you're stealing from me. I'm like I'm not stealing from you, I'm paying for it and I'm getting my reward. So I'm getting my gift card reward rewards, whether it's to Lowe's or IHOP or the gas station, and then I'm giving those gift cards to family members for credit card for their birthday.

Vanessa:

Exactly so, if you can use them.

Shay:

You can maybe buy some of my a plane ticket, or buy some of the gifts using your credit card rewards.

Vanessa:

Yeah, and I will say with this if you are, you know someone who can monitor and make sure that you're paying your card off monthly, do this, but if not, stay away from these things too, Because you know the debt's going to outweigh the reward with us, if that's your personality but.

Vanessa:

Shay I do the exact same thing. I mean, we were literally talking yesterday. So my boyfriend and I are doing this thing this year. Instead of doing, you know, presents, we've been trying to do something fun every weekend in December. So we were talking yesterday about going to the movies on Christmas Day and I was like, ooh, I've already gotten us a gift card, you know, using my points for AMC, so we can go to the movies I love that.

Vanessa:

But yeah, it's a great way to do things and it feels like it's free because you're going to spend the money that you used your card on something anyway, but it's a nice little pick me up and these little extras that kind of pop up with that and you can do some great little fun things.

Shay:

You really can, that's great. So yeah, so a lot of great ways to. You know, unfortunately, a lot of us are accumulating debt during the holidays, but there's ways to fix that and get out of debt and there's ways to make sure you don't get in debt again for the next holiday. So any final thoughts?

Vanessa:

Yeah, I would just say remember that it's not about the amount of money you're spending on something. It's about the effort and the time and the thought, and a lot of people these days are moving away from actual physical gifts and more to experiences. So just know who you're buying for and make sure that it's something that aligns with what's important to them.

Shay:

Yeah, that's so good, and we're going to have to have another episode on experience buying, because then people are still spending too much money.

Vanessa:

We need to have that conversation.

Shay:

But I love the idea of experience over materialistic. We got too many items in our houses and our workplaces, so we do need to cut back on that and experience stuff. But yeah, so I just want to thank everybody for joining us today. I have to shout out Adriana and Juan, who has been with us since the beginning, our producer and our, who helps with editing, and so much more, and just shout out our new podcast manager, TJ, who's going to be helping us starting January officially, but started already.

Shay:

So, we're just really excited about our team and how we're growing and direction we're going. So don't forget to follow us wherever podcasts are found and remember it's always better Y'all ways way. Thank you for listening to this episode. We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into the crossroads of religion and money. Also, we would love to hear your feedback on today's episode. So please leave us a review or just tell us what's on your mind and remember to follow our podcast. If you have any questions or suggestions of topics for us to discuss, please email us at Yahweh@ crusaders4 change. org. To hear all of Yahweh's Money latest episodes, please visit us at www. crusaders4change. org or wherever podcasts are found. God bless.

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