Believe in People
Believe in People explores the realities of addiction, recovery, and stigma through conversations with those who’ve lived it.
Featuring voices from across the recovery community - individuals with lived experience, frontline professionals, public figures, and policymakers - offering unfiltered insight into the personal and societal challenges surrounding substance use.
Hosted by Matthew Butler and produced by Robbie Lawson, this award-winning series is a trusted platform for dialogue, empathy, and change.
🎙 2024 British Podcast Award Winner - Best Interview
🎙 2025 Radio Academy Award Nominee - Best Speech & Entertainment
🎙 2024 Radio Academy Award Nominee - Best New Podcast
Believe in People
66 | Ross McAndrew: Suicide & Sobriety – From Losing His Father to Leading With Andy’s Man Club
Ross joins the podcast to share his powerful journey from personal tragedy to public advocacy, following the suicide of his father - a traumatic event that profoundly shaped his mental health. We explore how Ross turned to alcohol and cocaine to suppress overwhelming grief, endured multiple suicide attempts, and reached a pivotal moment of clarity during hospitalisation. His recovery story is rooted in the transformative impact of sobriety and the critical role of peer support. Through his involvement with Andy’s Man Club, Ross found a renewed sense of purpose in creating space for men to speak openly, confront trauma, and support one another without judgment.
This conversation delves into themes of emotional resilience, the social conditioning of masculinity, and the healing potential of community-led recovery. We also discuss the moment Ross met the paramedic who saved his life, and how full-circle experiences like these reinforce the value of second chances. Ross’s story is a compelling reminder that silence is not strength—and that choosing to speak out can be the first step toward real, lasting change.
If you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, addiction, or overwhelming emotions, please contact Samaritans at 116 123, or visit Andy’s Man Club to find a local group.
🗣️ Trigger Warning: This episode discusses suicide, addiction, and mental health crises. Listener discretion is advised.
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🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)
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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew
This is a Renew original recording. Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a two-time Radio Academy Award-nominated and British Podcast Award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery and stigma. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or, as I like to say, your facilitator. In this profoundly moving episode of Believe in People, I sit down with Ross, an advocate, facilitator and voice for men navigating grief, mental health and recovery.
Speaker 1:Ross's story begins with the devastating loss of his father to suicides, an event that fractured his world and set in motion a series of personal battles with addiction, trauma and despair. For years, alcohol and cocaine served as a mask for pain. He could not speak aloud, culminating in multiple suicide attempts that brought him to the brink of death and to eventual turning point. It was in a hospital bed with his mother by his side that Ross began to rebuild. Against a backdrop of doubt, stigma and overwhelming loss, he chose sobriety and later solidarity. His involvement with Andy's man Club became a catalyst for not only his own healing, but for offering that same lifeline to others. Today, ross helps lead a growing community of men who, like him, have learnt that silence is never strength and that speaking openly can save lives. I begin by asking Ross about his childhood and what led to early addiction.
Speaker 2:Growing up I was a typical Jack the Lad went out every weekend, lived for the weekend, played footy with the football lads. But I had a great childhood, a fantastic mum and dad and I only really started taking drugs as a weekend thing when I was about 17 I think. Started off taking ecstasy, speeds and then cocaine and then wondered why the fuck I couldn't sleep all night.
Speaker 2:You, know, but yeah, no, I was always, just like I said, lived for the weekend with the lads, but the main trigger point was, well, it was 2014, so my mum decided to leave my dad. You know, they'd been together 28 years and I still lived with them, and it had a massive impact on me.
Speaker 1:How old was you at that time?
Speaker 2:I was 20 26 at the time and it's all I knew.
Speaker 2:You know, I went out with my mum and dad. I partied with them. My dad was from an Irish family, so we all loved a drink and I'd spend like a lot of evenings with him and they were like I said, I loved them both to pieces. So this was like a massive shock to me and I always remember that they didn't see a real impact on what it was having on me. And I remember the for sale sign went up on the house and I'd gone out one Thursday and I came back and I just burst into tears. I ripped the sales sign down and doused it in petrol in the back garden and set it on fire and it wasn't until that moment that they thought, god, this is having an impact on Rossy because I think the thing is, when parents split up, some people think that's something that really only affects children, but I think in a way, by the time you're do you say 24 or 26?
Speaker 2:I was 26 at the time at 26.
Speaker 1:At that age, you're going to think you're going to be one of the lucky ones where your parents are together forever, of course, because that's a lifetime, isn't it, do you? Know, what I mean for that to happen. So yeah, I can massively my parents split up when I was about 14, 15 and I remember the impact that had on me, but I don't think it would have been any different had I been 14, 15 or 24, 25, 26, whatever.
Speaker 2:I think as well with my family. We're all close-knit and, like I said, we're more like friends. We're mum and dad, but we're best friends as well. So it was like another massive effect. And I didn't know about mental health or anything, and I'm not going to lie. I used to say to people god, mental health, depression, it's a it's, it's a chance to get off the day, off work or something. And fucking, how wrong was I. Um, so when the house sale finally went through, I said to my mom um, I'm gonna have to go live with dad because you know, we're in business together, me and my dad. Um, so I'm gonna have to go because he might, he might struggle a little bit. I said, don't think, know, it's hard for me to go with him, but don't think, I don't think any less of you, I love you to pieces.
Speaker 2:And her decision was you know, 28 years is a long time and she blames herself, obviously, for what did go on.
Speaker 2:But my dad, he started to hit the drink a bit, he'd go out and he'd make a show of himself sometimes, but he still, he was the life and soul. No one else saw it, but I think my mum's side, because she was in the relationship with him, never married, but, um, I think she was like started to get embarrassed by him and so so to leave was a big thing. So, anyway, the house sale went through, um, and I went and moved my dad's um and it just got. You know, he didn't want to go to work. I was keeping the business running with painter and decorators and I was like, oh God, why is he not coming out to work? But he can go out on a night and get pissed. And the main thing was they got a settlement each from the house, which was 51 grand apiece. So my dad was spending it like it was you know, like monopoly money out every night but didn't come to work during the day.
Speaker 2:So it was a little bit annoying and it wasn't until so the first time I walked back after he'd been on a night out. I'd come back from my girlfriends at the time and I walked in and it was really clean and there was beer cans everywhere.
Speaker 1:I said what the fuck is going on here and I walked to the top fucking like.
Speaker 2:We were really like clean and there was beer cans everywhere. I said what the fucking hell's going on here? And I walked to the top so we lived on like a three floor and I got to like the floor where my bedroom was and there was his bank cards and there was a note there and it basically says I'm so sorry, ross, I love you to bits and all this, but I but I've took an overdose. I'm upstairs, so I was. As you can imagine, my heart was beating so I literally ran upstairs not knowing if he was going to be alive or dead. And my dad he took. He was on tramadols for 20 years because he used to be. He was a professional jockey. My dad and there's a different story I'll tell you about, but he had a really bad fall, so he was on these tramadols for years, so he'd overdosed on them with drink and everything. So I went up and I shook him and he just opened his eyes. Um, so I was like the relief.
Speaker 1:I imagine that you felt in that moment, huge relief. So yeah, he had intended to. He had intended to let me suicide. No, yeah um.
Speaker 2:So I was gonna ring the ambulance and he said please don't, I don't want anyone to know about this. So I sat with him all day, made him drink a shitload of water and I made sure he was sick and stuff, and but still then I was, you know, mental health I didn't know anything about and I thought why do you know what's going on with him? I know he's upset about my mum and stuff, but you know, I still didn't have a like a massive range of knowledge about it. And I remember being out one night, um, because I was starting to get a little bit worried and someone said about ringing the samaritans. So I remember, like ringing them on a I think it was a friday night, I'd had a drink myself and just explained a few bits, uh, saying, you know, I found this note. Um, you know he doesn't want to go get up during the day, but on the night time, you know he's out drinking all the time. Um, so they said, referring to your gp. So I said to Dad look, please, will you go to the doctors and just try and get some help? You know whether it's tablets or whatever it is. So anyway he said, oh, I'll be all right, I'll be all right, I'll be all right, and that's what it always was. And then it was two weeks later. Yeah, it was July the 3rd.
Speaker 2:So on the friday night we used to always go for a beer after after work. He actually came to work that day, um, I'm in our local pub, um, and he just didn't see himself. So he had a pint and he and he drove a form. So I went, I finished mine and went after him, um, and he was in the kitchen. So I was, I was just having a chat with him was like you're gonna be all right. Yeah, I'll be all right, rostockocri, I said, look, everything's fine, I'll keep the business going. I know that you're not in it at the moment. And I thought he went to bed.
Speaker 2:So the girlfriend I was with at the time and my tea and stuff went and sat in the living room and I came back and the kitchen looked out onto the driveway, it the driveway, and we had like a garage, and I noticed that the garage door was open and the light was shining through it and I thought it must just have been left open. And so I just washed up, did normally, and I just went and lit a cig and walked up to the garage door to just just check what was going on. And yeah, that's when my fucking that's when my life shattered in front of me because I opened up the garage door and my dad had a tow rope around his neck and he hung himself from the ceiling like from the beams. So my instant reaction was just to grab him. And I remember grabbing him and just slumping over my shoulder and I was looking for something to cut him down with, not sure if he was alive or dead, and there was like some little hedge cutters to the left of me. So as I had him over my shoulder, like lent over, and I cut him down and as I went down with him, I just I knew he was dead and I just laid his body on the floor and I was like it was horrible.
Speaker 2:So the first thing I did was like phone 999 and just explain what happened. And the first person who turned up on the scene was a community support officer and she said, oh, we've had noise complaints, what's going on? So obviously she's only doing her job. And I said my exact words was fucking noise complaints. I said my dad's dead in there, he's just hung himself. It's later on, after she felt really bad. You know she was just turning up for a job, but that was the first person and she felt really bad you know, she was just turning up for a job.
Speaker 2:But that was the first person. And then I'll always remember this. A car had pulled up and it was one of my friends in and he jumped out and he was like what's going on? I told him and he gave me the biggest hug ever and since this day I'll never, ever, ever, forget that hug. So, yeah, the police turned up the undertakers and everything came. I had to ring my mum as well and explain what had happened and my mum like quickly drove up because she lived about two minutes away and I said please don't open the garage. And she opened the garage door and seen him and it just broke her heart. So obviously everything was going on. I was like what the hell's going on here? You know he's dead, I've got all this to deal with and it was like it's the hardest thing ever because he wasn't just my dad, he was, he was my best friend you can tell, by the way you're talking about your relationship with him, that it's that, that it isn't just the fact you've got a business together.
Speaker 1:Do you know? It's like you work colleagues as well, do you know? I mean, you spent a lot of time, a lot of time.
Speaker 2:He was, like I said, and it's it's 10 years in july since did it and it's it's still talking about. It doesn't get any easier.
Speaker 1:No, I can see, you know and, as you're telling that story, I've got I've got a really good relationship with my dad. I was just trying to imagine, imagine that, and just I could feel myself behind the eyes thinking fucking hell like that, that would I think. That would that think that would fuck anybody up, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:That was. It was all just. I didn't know what the hell was going on. So when we were sat in the living room with the police officers, they were almost questioning me, like look, it looks like suicide, but we're going to have to question you, fucking hell, so I'm sat there thinking fucking hell. I've just seen my dad like he's dead. I've had to cut him down and now you're questioning whether it is actually suicide. Obviously, they were only doing the job, but I'm like I know, but still, yeah, just.
Speaker 2:It was tough. And then, oh God, I always remember this as well. So the police officer asked if I was the only child and I was like, yeah, I am. My mum said no, and I looked at my mum. I was like what she said? Your dad had a son that he paid for up until he was 18, called Daniel in Doncaster. I was like what? So I'm like I've just found my dad dead. Now I've found out.
Speaker 1:I've got like a fucking half brother.
Speaker 2:I'm like how much more can I take in here? And this is all happening in the same night. This is all happened in the space of about an hour, Jesus. So obviously I've never pursued it anymore to find this Daniel or do anything, because how do I come across it? I'm his half brother and your dad's dead, you know. So I've never gone on to find him.
Speaker 1:Obviously, I know it's not something that would have happened immediately, but within 10 years, even within 10 years.
Speaker 2:No, I never, I've never spoke about it. I just I know what impact it had on my life, um, so obviously there were reasons there why that they've not been in touch, but I just didn't want to put on to some random. You know, this is the story, this is what's. Just because everything I've gone through since them 10 years, I just don't want to put it on anyone else.
Speaker 1:And in a stranger as well. You know, like you've said, your dad was a friend to you, a real good relationship.
Speaker 2:He was my best friend.
Speaker 1:If your dad hasn't had a relationship with this, Daniel? Do you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I suppose it's just strange in the sense of like such a close relationship with yourself. Imagine going to this person and explaining oh, by the way, this had happened. And I think as well, depending on what that reaction would be, for instance if he'd. Well, I don't care it wasn't in my life.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:That'd just piss me If I was in that situation, I'd just get pissed off about that, I think there's a mixture of it could.
Speaker 2:For all I know, we could form like a friendship it could but I'm not prepared to put anyone else's life in that and you know my dad didn't have the greatest upbringing. He didn't. And he always said to me he said you know, I was never had the greatest upbringing from his dad, but he said I'd never put that on you. So that's why we had the friendship. It was just like I said he was my best friend, he was my partner in crime.
Speaker 1:He was my business partner. So where did it go then after the police officer had asked are you the only child?
Speaker 2:So my mum was like no, and then obviously you can imagine my shock and then she explained that he has got a son in Doncaster called Daniel and I just left it at that, so obviously the undead take it.
Speaker 2:It was horrible having to watch him go into that body bag and get zipped away and I remember just I just couldn't sleep for the love of God, and I just went.
Speaker 2:So that was on the Friday night and on the Saturday I went down to the local pub which is like all Thirsk is a small community and everyone knows and I just went out on a Saturday like nothing had happened. I was just on the drink, just constantly brandy, I was drinking brandy and me dad, like that day there was a big horse race. I can't remember which race it was the Guineas or something, and I can't remember which race it was the Guineas or something and one of our local trainers I'm really good friends with his son, kevin Ryan, adam Ryan's son and the Grey Gatsby was running and my dad was. He was adamant that this horse was going to win. He was really fancy and I think he had about 100 quid left in his pocket. So I thought, just for my dad, I'm just going to put this money on. And I knew it finished third in the end, but that was so, that's.
Speaker 2:I carried on drinking and then it wasn't until maybe about four or five o'clock ish. You know, I was just.
Speaker 1:I just wasn't getting drunk, so I got on the sniff had you taken cocaine before that, or was that I took it?
Speaker 2:I took it a lot, but more as a recreational thing. So it was a recreational thing but then I just got on it now just to keep going. But then so it went all day Saturday, went back to a house party on the Saturday, all day. Sunday, back out till the Sunday night and we had funeral arrangements on the Monday which I was meant to go with my mum with and I was still partying. Well, same partying. I was drinking just to try and numb what was going on in me.
Speaker 2:And God, the amount, the endless amount of brandy, cocaine. I dread to think how much we took. And on the Monday I was slowly starting to like kick in a little bit like fucking hell. You know, I need to go sort my shit out and I always remember I walked. It was about nine o'clock at night and I walked through and seen my mum and I just had the biggest fucking breakdown ever and I just gave her the biggest hug and I just cried and cried and cried and cried and my mum's fantastic, my mum, she's always been my best friend, but she is.
Speaker 2:She's an absolute gem. If anything was to ever happen to her, god it'd kill me. And she says don't worry, we're in this together. But the thing is my dad had left a suicide note and in the suicide note was so this was when I'd actually found him. Sorry, I've had to do this, ross, do you know? I don't want to be here. I love you to bits. Don't ever blame yourself. And at the bottom of that list it said don't let that come at my funeral, meaning my mum.
Speaker 1:That list it said don't let that come at my funeral, meaning my mum oh wow.
Speaker 2:So I knew deep down that my dad didn't mean that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I certainly my mum was heartbroken when she seen it, but she knew that wasn't my dad. So we'd met all the funeral arrangements and I always remember we went to the police station once they'd done all the tests and stuff and it did come back that he'd taken his own life, which was quite obvious anyway. Well, the police officer said to me he was like are you going to stick by your dad wishes and not let your mum at the funeral? And I looked at him and I said not a fucking chance. I said she's going to be stood there at the front of that funeral with me. And we did so. We made all the plans. So the hardest thing, the hardest thing was he had 51 grand in the December. In the July there was two grand left. So it wasn't. I wasn't bothered how much was left. This was all going on the funeral but, it kind of sunk in a bit.
Speaker 2:The reason he's done it is because he spent all this money.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of money to spend in the space of what? Four or five months?
Speaker 2:yeah um, what was he spending? Was it? Was it because obviously you said about alcohol, what else just I'll? He never really took drugs, just alcohol and gambling gambling.
Speaker 2:So when he so he wasn't working during the day, I was, I kept the business running. But we had like this system going where we'd we put some money in the betting account and my dad was fantastic with like following stats and everything else and we had this betting account and we had it built up to. I think we had about three and a half grand in there and he went to Thirst Graces on the Saturday so I was doing the betting like with him while he was at the races and I noticed two grand went out of the account. So I rang him up. I said what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2:He said I've just had a tip for this horse. I said we never go off tips and that horse got beat so that money was gone. So I think he started chasing it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's quickly how quick it can spiral, chasing your losses, I think the more you have as well, the more you will bet.
Speaker 2:And once drink and drugs are involved. You know you think you're unstoppable. So if you've got 20 grand there. You know you think, oh sorry, I'll have this money on it, um, so, yeah, so, because the money had gone, I think that had gone into him. But so there's 2200 and something left, um, and I was going to make sure he had the best send-off ever, um, so we put it all into the funeral costs. Uh, I even had his coffin wrapped in like a horse racing theme. It was lovely, it was really really good.
Speaker 1:Just going back to, obviously, the comment he made about your mum being at the funeral, and by the sounds of it, you know the separation life spiralling out of control for him. Did your mum feel responsible in any way? My mum blames herself to this day, Really.
Speaker 2:She blames herself to this day and out of control for him. Did your mum feel responsible?
Speaker 1:in any way my mum blames herself to this day.
Speaker 2:Really, she blames herself to this day. Oh God, it's so tough just to when we sit and talk about him and stuff. She does blame herself, but I've said to her Mum. It's your life, do you know? What I mean so she's got a tattoo, my Life, my Choice.
Speaker 1:And then she's got the, the semicolon thing which is for suicide.
Speaker 2:Um, and she has that tattoo there for her and I said you need to stick by that, but I know she blames herself to this day for my dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the thing is with, you know, working in a substance misuse service like ours, we often see, um, you know, threats of suicide a lot. The reality is we can only do so much. And he talks about getting the Samaritan's number and things like that. There's only so much information. But we always say at the end of the day, if somebody wants to kill themselves, that is their decision, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's funny you should say that because I had a chat with my mum on Monday and I said to her I said if I knew what I know now through, like mental health and suicide and stuff, I think I could have done a lot more for dad. And my mom stopped me and she said Ross, it was heartwarming, but she said, ross, you'd have never saved your dad.
Speaker 2:He had it in his mind to do it, so don't ever blame yourself. And it was a really really like heart feeling, feeling heart to heart with her, but it kind of settled in. You know as much as I do know today about the awareness of mental health and suicides. Yeah, he had it in his mind, he was always going to do it and I think as well. It's tough, but I think now he's at peace. He is at peace and I think that's the main thing. It's still fucking hard, don't get me wrong. It's really hard. But when I go visit his graveside now I think he's at peace, now I can sit there, I can have a chat with him, whereas for about eight years before, the only time I'd go see- him is when.
Speaker 2:I'd have a drink or occasions and stuff and that was just a trigger for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the hardest thing thing, and it's still hard to this day, so obviously father's day is at the end of june. Yeah, the anniversary of his death is on july the 3rd, and then his birthday is in august so you've got a rough couple of months in the space of what? Five, six weeks? I've got all them to deal with and I always use them as a trigger. Um, so my own mental health I've fueled with with drinking drugs. It was like that was my mask, but it's only been the past two years.
Speaker 2:Um, where I've actually can go up there now and I can, I can sit and and like, relax and have a chat with him, and the nicest thing is is so where the graveside is the thirst race course is literally nearby um, and it was only on his anniversary this year that I went and sat up and there was a night meeting on at thirst so I could hear the commentary of the horses and it was just it was. It was only on his anniversary this year that I went and sat up and there was a night meeting on at Thirsk so I could hear the commentary of the horses and it was really peaceful. It was lovely to sit and chat and that's what he'd like.
Speaker 1:I think with your dad as well when we say about it being the choice. It sounds like he really was ready to make that decision because obviously he made the attempt with the tramadol not long before. And often when speaking with survivors of suicide attempts, I always find it interesting that a lot of people who do survive it almost have that clarity or realisation when they do survive is actually, I never wanted to die, I just wanted to stop feeling the way I did. Now you woke him up from that. You helped him through the possibility of an overdose there, but he still wanted to make that decision. So if he hadn't had that clarity after the first one, I think that shows that he truly wanted to do what he wanted to do.
Speaker 2:On the Saturday I was due to go for a night out in Yarm and I said if I'd have managed to save him that day, what's saying it wouldn't have done it that day.
Speaker 2:He did have it in his mind and it wasn't until a year after the anniversary, because I was I think it was a week after the funeral I went straight back to work and I got on. I was just going about my everyday life and I was just tunnel vision. Keep this business going. And Do you know what? I was thinking this before I came in and did this podcast. Who said this to me? But they said look, just be careful, you're doing too well at the moment. It's going to come crashing down.
Speaker 2:And I don't mean that in a bad way. I can't remember, for the love of God, who said it, but fuck me, were they right, jesus? So it wasn't until the year anniversary. I was doing absolutely fine, and then the year's anniversary came and it just the realisation set in. You know, I'm never going to get to see my dad again, I'm never going to get to hug him, see him on Father's Day, go racing with him, and I remember I'd gone out on a Thursday night and I'd got absolutely hammered. And on the Friday morning I came back in, just after everyone had gone to work, um, my mum and her partner, um, and it was about 20 past eight. I took obviously I've been on a drink and everything, and I took all my tablets, um, and I'd left a note and that was me, that was. That was.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it was a cry for help it wasn't necessary, that I didn't want to be here, but it was like I didn't want to be here, but it was like I can't live without my dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I woke up in intensive care. The girlfriend I was with at the time she'd message my mum when we would come round. And that's when I first. It was my first suicide attempt. It was my first involvement with going through counselling, going on medication and stuff and I was starting to do all right. I did a thing called EMDR, which is like it's similar to hypnotism. That's what she said when.
Speaker 1:I began it.
Speaker 2:So it's all your thoughts in your mind. So all I could picture was my dad hanging from this beam with this yellow tow rope and it always stuck in my head, so transferring the thoughts. She said you are in control, but it is like hypnotism. So what you had to do was picture a happy place. So my happy place was just what I imagined was nice, crystal ocean, white beach and a veranda. And I even got a picture just around. I think it was from the Maldives and I put it as my screensaver.
Speaker 2:So what I had to do was go back from three um traumas in my life, so the first one being obviously traumatic but not so traumatic, and some a bit more intense, and then obviously we'll get to your dad. So my first one I was in a car accident, um, when I was 20, 23, 24, so that was my traumatic time. So I pictured that. And then I pictured my happy place and what I had to do. I had to follow her fingers like this and what it was doing it was transferring the thoughts from your parts of your brain. Amazing, amazing, amazing stuff.
Speaker 2:And it worked, this was working, this was doing fantastic. But you'd come out, and you'd because they said don't drive or anything after it, because you did come out feeling like like almost a bit like hypnotism. Yeah, it was like your whole body was like oh god, this is unreal, um.
Speaker 2:and my second session was um, I was when I dislocated my knee playing cricket and again doing the same thing, from a traumatic time to this and then the last one. Um, so I think I did about three months of it and the last one was picturing my dad going back to your happy place and this was the hardest session and I came out and I was just God. It was like Jesus. I've done this, I'm fine now. And I went for a pint in the pub and the first guy I saw came up and told me so this guy, errol, was good friends with my dad, through racing, through everything, and I always remember at the funeral he said I can't believe Martin's done this.
Speaker 2:It's so selfish I'd never do that and it is it is hard to hear, but until you've been through it yourself, it's not selfish, it's not a coward's way out anyway. So I'd walked.
Speaker 1:I hate that. I hate that term with stuff like so it was a coward's way out. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So as I'd walked into the pub, one of the locals came up to me. The first thing he said he said have you heard about Errol? He says no. He said he swung himself to the air. Oh fuck, I was like you are joking the hardest session of EMDR. And then Errol, after what he said to me at the funeral, and now he's done it, and it was like fucking hell. How much more of this can I do?
Speaker 1:he must have been fighting his demons he must have been telling himself don't do it it's a coward's word, almost as a way to try and bring his own mind, and then he succumbed to it himself eventually as well. Exactly, and it was just so tough.
Speaker 2:But the CMDR helped the counselling. I went through PTSD counselling and then I've done all sorts bereavement, everything and then I was on the tablets. I was on the metazapine so they were helping me sleep on a night and then obviously, helping my mood and stuff. So this was this was this was grand for about four years. And then COVID hit and that was I lived on my own at the point and then I lost my granddad, which was my dad's dad.
Speaker 2:So, as you can imagine, all this set triggers back and I just started drinking more and I was using drugs, but this it was always cocaine. Cocaine was always my choice, but it was a case of I'd start on a Thursday, thursday nights here, but then I never wanted it to end, not because I was a party animal, because I'd be sat like in my kitchen on my own having a line having a drink, and I didn't want it to end because I knew what was coming. So I think I did four and a bit days in total but just drinking and then just listening to irish music and stuff and it was. It was starting to take a bit of a toll on me um but no one knew.
Speaker 2:I didn't tell anyone. Um, I just hid it all, hid behind the mask. I was going to work, I was turning up at work at like half 10 and then working, god, about six, seven, and it's like getting out of bed. Even if I wasn't hungover, getting out of bed was the hardest thing and that was the depression side. You know, I shower twice a day. I brush my teeth twice a day. I'd lay in bed for like two, three days and I'd just get up for a piss. I wouldn't eat or anything. And it was tough. And it wasn't until when I started drinking and taking drugs.
Speaker 2:Then you could hide behind all this pain and you could like go be the life and soul of the party, but deep down you're just masking it, yeah, and no one's seen that. No one's seen it at all. So that was then the second time. And so that was then the second time. But the second time I tried to take my own life. I had it planned. I just went about my normal day and I remember, just set up in my kitchen I'd like I had a marble chopping board, because I love my cooking. Well, this marble chopping board was mainly used for lines of cocaine and then chopping food on. And I remember, and I was just, I was taking cocaine drinking and I wrote a suicide note. I and I remember I was taking cocaine drinking and I wrote a suicide note. I thought I just can't deal with this anymore.
Speaker 1:At this time. I don't want to be here. What's that like to be at that point where you were ready to I can't. I've had some very low moments and I think most people at some point have thought about suicide, but I've never got to the point where I feel like I'm writing my last letter, my last words, to someone. What's that experience like, being at that point, and how did you feel when you was, when you was actually writing it?
Speaker 2:I think the main thing is fueling it with the drinking drugs, because when I was sober you could. You could almost try and manage of it and think right, come on, you can sort yourself out yeah but I think the drinking drugs.
Speaker 2:obviously you're just bringing back things you know. You're putting on Irish music. I'm fueling it all myself. So I remember writing this note mainly to my mum, and tears were just streaming down my face, and this was the first, because I think the first time was maybe like a cry for help. I need help here. I didn't know what the effects of taking my tablets was going to do, john, because what's the gap between the first attempt and the second attempt?
Speaker 2:The first one was a year after the anniversary started in 2016 and then the next one. Like I said, I was fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but not fine still dealing with. I get what you mean, yeah.
Speaker 2:But the COVID, so I think it was 2021, so it was a good four years.
Speaker 2:I left my sliding patio door open on my house and I went upstairs and I put all my dad's funeral photos out and stuff and I'd taken all my box of prescription pills, the metazapines I don't know how many's in the thing mixed with the alcohol and the cocaine and I wrote my mum. I messaged her and just said the back door's open, I'm so sorry. And now my mum I think it is about quarter past six in the morning my mum just so happens to have got up for a wee at that time and read her phone and she was round at my house within minutes and then I was rushed off into hospital and again intensive care Woke up, wires all out of me. Do you know I'm having to see a psychiatrist. They were talking about my medication.
Speaker 1:It had to be monitored, so my mum had to have my medication from then on and give me two at a time, just to prevent you from trying to do it again, just to prevent me, yeah.
Speaker 2:But still I never spoke about it. So I went for my second or third batch of counselling. I think this was bereavement counselling.
Speaker 1:Can I just go back? So when you text your mum, was there an intention of you need to come and help me right now, or was that truly a I'm sorry and a goodbye it?
Speaker 2:was a sorry and a goodbye, like I wrote in the note, and it wasn't. You need to come and help me right now.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to be here.
Speaker 2:That was my final straw. Like I'm done, I can't deal with this. I'm I'm causing everyone, I'm causing my mum's stress, because she just thought I was a fucking set she had she had a drink and a drug problem, which don't get me wrong. I've had some fantastic times on drinking drugs you know when it's stag do's. You know, with the footy lads and stuff, I've met some of my best friends, um, but when you're using, when you're using it for the wrong reasons, just to hide behind it all, Especially those substances.
Speaker 1:you know, I think things like cocaine are the type of drugs that you use in those party environments, with friends, you know, in a recreational way. I think there is that moment when you're doing that stuff by yourself, where it's like, okay, the party's stopped now, the party's stopped now.
Speaker 2:I remember sat up for two days on my own. It was nice because no one was asking for a line and no one was putting cigarettes off, you, you know. But I thought you know what are you doing here. You know you're literally scrolling through Facebook your heads, you know purposely putting yourself in that place.
Speaker 1:I was feeling it myself.
Speaker 2:I was feeling it, but the reason I was doing it is because I knew what was coming. So obviously what goes up must come down, but with my down was a lot further down because I was hiding behind a lot of fucking hurt, um. So, yeah, I did, I fueled it myself, um, and, like I said, looking back it's I only really had myself to blame. But I was doing it because I didn't want to talk about it, even though I was doing my counselling. I was telling them my problems, I was telling no one else my problems, and I went through North Yorkshire Horizons as well, monitoring my drink intake, and I thought so I was doing the right things, but I wasn't really putting them into practice.
Speaker 1:So you're just going through the motions of it as opposed to Going through the emotions.
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, and it's almost like oh God, poor me, this has happened, but I'd give off great advice to people about mental health and stuff. Yeah, I would never put into practice myself.
Speaker 1:I think that's most people. I always say I can give really good advice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But Christ, when the chips are down for myself, I'm like I don't know what to do Exactly 100%. Trying to put myself in other people's situations.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, you just need to do this.
Speaker 1:And I think that's most people.
Speaker 2:That's not just yourself.
Speaker 1:Most people would be able to relate to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, definitely yeah. So when was that COVID? Yeah, so that was so. When was that Covid? And then again I was.
Speaker 2:I was struggling, I was really struggling and the worst part was so my dad's side of the family were Irish. So I went over to Ireland January 2023 and I thought this is me going back seeing my family. This is going to help me and, you know, bring all the love back. This is going to be my excuse to go over to Ireland because literally, you're 40 minutes on a plane and we've got a big family in Ireland and it's a beautiful part of the country, in County Mayo on the West Coast, and it had the complete opposite effect. I came back from that holiday. I went for four days. I came back and it just, oh my God, it just brought back all the trauma, all the love, and I hit an all-time worst. I was fucking drinking and taking cocaine every other night for three, four nights on end. Um, I was really struggling, really, really struggling. So this was in the january. So then, up until the april, apr 20th, I'd gone out on the Friday and I was hurting so bad. I remember I never drank vodka, never, ever and I got a full bottle of vodka and I was sat in my house just drinking vodka drinking, but I was not taking drugs. I thought I was going to get absolutely shit faced here and then that was it. I don't remember anything more, other than I came out of a coma.
Speaker 2:Two days later I was in intensive care, icu 2 in James Cook in Middlesbrough. They were fantastic. And I woke up. My mum's next to me. She's in absolute floods of tears. I've got wires, tubes, everything coming out of me, um, and what I'd done is I'd hung myself from my stairs at home. Um, so that was me, that was my life done. I was jokes. I'd got absolutely blackout drunk. I'd.
Speaker 2:I couldn't remember any of it, um, so, yes, it wasn't until my mum. She didn't really say what had happened, but, um, my girlfriend well, my ex-girlfriend at the time. I was messaging her and my she'd messaged my mum saying I think r Ross needs your help. My mum was coming round that day anyway to give me a bollocking, as she said, but she usually goes to my grandma's on a Saturday afternoon and that day she just didn't. So she walked into the house and seen me hanging and she had to cut me down and try and save my life. So it wasn't until so I'm laid in hospital and then my mum's there next to me telling me briefly what had happened. You know, you're lucky to be here and then some results came back, my test results to check if I'd been brain damaged, and they came back positive. So I didn't.
Speaker 2:I couldn't remember anything and I always remember that night when I came out of my intensive care, like out of my coma. I was laid there and I was in a room there was four of us, um, and this always stands out to me this the nurses had come and they had like a massive sheet of paper stood and they were watching individually, like for every 10 minutes or so, um, and just sat staring and they're monitoring if there's any finger movement, any eye twitches, because these guys are like fighting for their lives. Um, and I remember saying to my mom when she came in the next day I was like I'm just mesmerized by what they're doing. She said they were doing that for you. Ross said we weren't sure if you were going to make it or not.
Speaker 2:Um, anyway, I've seen the psychiatrist, uh, on the tuesday, and then I got discharged and I always remember, as I walked out of intensive care and the nurse said to me do you know what, ross? You don't realize how lucky you are, because not many people walk off this ward, and that always sticks in my head that and when I finally got home, I just don't know what it was. It was so tough. I thought what the fuck's happened? What have I done here? This is exactly what your dad did, and look what it did to you and your poor mother's here.
Speaker 1:You're putting somebody else through the possibility of everything that you've gone through, everything I've been through, and the person I was doing it to was the best rock of my life is my mother.
Speaker 2:So when I finally got home I turned my phone on and obviously I'm quite not sounding like a big head, but I'm quite well known around Thirsk and everyone knows everyone.
Speaker 1:A lot of messages, a lot of concern.
Speaker 2:So I remember. So I turned it on and I remember it coming on and it was like I'd just set it to vibrate because every single message was coming through, whether it's through Facebook, text message, snapchat. It's. After about 15 minutes, once it finally stopped vibrating, I went on and I thought do you know what? Every single person that's messaged me, I'm going to message them back individually, absolutely. So I sat down and I started messaging everyone individually. Thank you so much, appreciate it. Thank you so much. Means a lot, and so I started at 10 o'clock in the morning. It wasn't just constant.
Speaker 2:I'd had my dinner and stuff, and I sent my last message at 11 o'clock at night, just thanking everyone. This bit gets me and the one message that stood out for me was from my mum, and that message said I know you can't read this, ross, but will you please open your eyes so I can tell you how much I love you. And reading that message, reading that message was just enough just to say do you know what you've sought yourself out? Now, that was the hardest bit and that always sticks by me that my mum was laid by my side, not knowing if I was going to make it or not, for her to have to message me.
Speaker 1:That breaks me up every time um, it shows where her mind is as well, because I had that moment. She's sending that message, thinking you're never going to read that I'm never going to read that's the kind of like where how irrational your mind is in that situation, you're just doing anything and I suppose looking at a previous message from you, writing a message out to you, feels like you're in communication with you. Yeah, despite you being in that yeah situation that she's currently looking at.
Speaker 2:It was heartbreaking that's the bit that always stands out. And I remember just sat there right after messaging all these people back and I'd seen one. I'd seen like all the love and support and it's like you've got a second chance at life. Now Look at what you've nearly left behind, look at what you've put your mother through, my grandma, everything else, and that was something just came across me. I was like, right, I'm going to go sober, I'm going to stop the drink, I'm going to stop the drugs, I'm going to get myself sorted, I'm going to get sunk into work.
Speaker 2:And this part of my recovery story I always remember. So it was on. So this was on the tuesday, and so on the thursday I went back to the church and I'd never been back to that church since I, my dad and I spoke to the priest, lovely guy. I said you might I told you my story, what happened, and he remembers, obviously, my dad's funeral and he was like look, ross, we're always here for you. He said sit at the back of the church as much time as you want. And I remember like I'm not religious at all.
Speaker 2:I used to go with my dad to the Catholic church as a kid and stuff. Obviously, the Irish side of the family are massive religious.
Speaker 2:Obviously, there's beliefs and stuff there and I remember just sat at the back of the church and I just took it all in and I just prayed to, obviously, my dad. He's kept me here. How the hell are you still here? So, my dad, I sat in there for about 20 minutes and I walked up to the big doors. As I walked out and I blessed myself with holy water and this could almost be a scene on like a movie. I opened the doors and the sun was just beaming down and I remember saying to myself your new life starts now.
Speaker 2:And I stuck by it. I went straight back to work. So I was discharged on the Tuesday. So I went back to work on the following Monday and everyone was like God, are you okay and all this stuff. And I was sticking to it and a lot of people doubted me. A lot of people did think, joy, you was. I was sticking to it and a lot of people doubted me. A lot of people did think joy never be able to do it. I never thought in a million years I loved having a drink, I loved having a line. I'm not going to lie. I loved the, the interaction. I was a life and soul.
Speaker 2:But when you're using it for the? So I downloaded an I am sober app. So I was posted like the one month sober, the two months sober, and I kept posting it, one to try and help others and two this is the massive two basically to say fuck you to all the people who are doubting me here. Um, and I kept going and I remember when I got to the six months marker, I'd been discharged from everything. So obviously the crisis team had to come and see me. They came three times a week for the first three weeks and then they came twice a week and then once a week. So I was getting discharged, I was still using my horizons and my counselling and after six months I'd been discharged. And I always remember the crisis team guy because I'd seen about three or four different people and the guy that came to discharge me. He said you know what, ross, it is an absolute pleasure to come and discharge you today.
Speaker 2:He said I don't think you realise, but you're the talk of the team at the moment. He said what you're doing and that was like a self-joy. He felt what you're doing and that was like a self-adjoining. You felt proud about it. Absolutely, it was a massive thing. Yeah, so the six months came. I was just tunnel vision. I wanted to build the business back up, because I did nearly piss it into the ground yeah every excuse under the sun, for why you don't?
Speaker 2:turn up and stuff. So I had a mindset with that and I carried on working and I got back into my cricket, which I used to play as a kid and for all the years got back into that and had a good season and I was just doing everything right. But yeah, once I was discharged of everything, got to the years, sobriety, and it was like a massive achievement and it was also I'd been back to Ireland as well. Sadly, we'd lost my great auntie and she was like the backbone of the McAndrew family and I'd gone back to an emotional time. I'd seen people I'd not seen for 20 years and I'd still stayed sober, and so that was a massive trigger. But then again, three months later I lost my grandma, which was my dad's mum. So that's like my candru side wiped out.
Speaker 2:And I was like God if I was ever going to relapse, you know, now would be it. I just kept mindset, I did just keep going and I didn't really have any triggers. I'd go out. I'd still be my normal self. I'd drink the Guinness cereal, if I can promote that Fantastic stuff. Be my normal self. Um, I drink the guinness cereal, if I can promote that fantastic stuff. Um, and I still socialized. Um, I did, however, realize that I don't have a filter. You know, it wasn't food, drinking the drugs yeah, I'm still the same without it. Um, but yeah, things were just happening, like I said, like death of my, my great auntie, my grandma. Um, and I got in a relationship it was a girl about two months after I'd come out of hospital.
Speaker 2:And it was a girl that I'd kind of fancied for years and she stood by me and she was sober for eight months. She stood by me, but then that started to hit the rocks a little bit because she started drinking again and it wasn't that I had an issue with it. You've got to look after yourself.
Speaker 1:You've got to look after yourself, yeah.
Speaker 2:And just a few things like a rose and stuff. But, like I say, I'm not going to sit here and slag it off or anything. I really did love it and it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do was it was in the July.
Speaker 2:I had to walk away from that relationship purely because I had to think of myself. I don't get wrong, I loved the bones of her and it was tough. So I've got all this stuff to deal with but managing it was so much easier. The anniversaries came with my dad's. You know the. Father's Day and everything and I was just focusing on them and I was just handling them so much better and I was just so headstrong. I was in such a good place. I'm posting everything. I'm trying to inspire people.
Speaker 2:I've got people stopping me in the street saying God, ross, where?
Speaker 1:you've come from is just you know it's unbelievable, especially with, like, as you said, with Fairst being such a small community, everyone's kind of knowing everybody and so on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the thing is as well. Everyone did know their own business, but I thought I'm going to post it. So I put some really deep posts out about what happened and how I was doing it and trying to really help mental health and suicide. Make sure no one gets into that stage again. Um, and it was, it was, it was really getting noticed, it was brilliant and, like you said, the the year anniversary came. That was fantastic. I'd met all them, all them moves, and then in the september of last year, um, I was, what was I? 16, 15, 16 months sober, and one of my friends from thirsk. He said look, there's this which I'm going to speak about now is, um, there's this, there's this club that raises awareness for men's mental health. Um, and his man club. So I thought, right, yeah, I'll come along. Um, I didn't know what it was about or anything, um, and I'll try and try and inspire others with my story. Had you heard of it?
Speaker 1:before and his man club. You know what it was about or anything, and I'll try and inspire others with my story. Had you heard of it before, andy's man Club, do you?
Speaker 2:know what? It's funny because when I came out of hospital, a guy in our local gave me this band and his I think it was his sister had been to a young lad who had committed suicide. And his mum had said give Ross this band. So I had this band on and I knew nothing about it. Obviously, I was going through my crisis team and everything else, so I was sticking by my recovery, but I didn't really know anything about it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so I went to the first one along in Ripon with Dave, and I found myself sat there with a group of people. You know, you've got I'm here, as you know. As far as I'm concerned, you know I'm pretty all right, but as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty all right. You've got people coming through here for the first time who are fucking shitting themselves. You know and it wasn't until I sat down so the ins and outs of Andy's man Club. You get a brew and everything and you sit down in a big circle and it all begins with question zero. It's called. So it's like explain who you are and why you come to Andy's man Club. So I kind of use my.
Speaker 2:You know I've dealt with this since losing my dad, blah-de-blah-de-blah, I've gone sober, this, that and the other, and then we get split into two groups and then the three questions are always the same How's your week been, what's the positive or highlight of your week and anything to get off your chest. So I found myself sat there answering these questions, normal, and then the anything to get off your chest, and I told these strangers that I'd met what half an hour ago. I'm telling them my story and I find myself crying like breaking down. And each and every one of these guys you know they've all got their own individual problems so supportive, and I thought, thought I've come to try and inspire others, yet they're inspiring me while I'm doing this, getting it off my chest, um.
Speaker 2:So it can get quite deep on them on anything to get off your chest. So that's why after the break they really try and concentrate. So there's question four and five, um, and then questions a bit more light-hearted. You know what's your favourite biscuit? Favourite crisp in Asani and the importance of that is to like leave on a high. So I left like this first Andy's man club thinking this is fucking brilliant this is absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 2:Everyone's got their own individual story to tell and I remember someone saying god. I thought I didn't realise my story was anything bad at all compared to listening to you, but one of the facilitators, Rippon Andy, he's called.
Speaker 1:Does everyone think it's his club? Yeah, yeah, well, that's it, I can imagine.
Speaker 2:He says I'm not the Andy, but he says it's not a pissing contest. So each and every one has got a problem. It doesn't matter what you're going through. So each and every one has got a problem. It doesn't matter what you're going through, and I understand that. What's happened to my dad is it's horrendous, but in my eyes it's no different if someone loses their dad for cancer or for a car crash, you've still got that trauma and heartache of what you're going through.
Speaker 2:So that was the first encounter of the club and when I left, like I said, I felt buzzing absolutely buzzing. And then obviously the Monday came after and I remember one guy stopping me and he said you know what, ross, I've come back because you've inspired me to come back. And I said you know what, it's fantastic to hear that, it is really nice. And I always put on my posts and stuff like the journey and stuff, and I always put on it. I don't do this for the red carpet treatment.
Speaker 1:I don't want the red carpet.
Speaker 2:I don't want smoke blowing in my ass. I do it to try and help others yeah because I don't want anyone to be at rock bottom.
Speaker 1:You've experienced it. You know what it's like. You don't want anyone to feel the way you've ever felt.
Speaker 1:Don't want anyone to ever feel at all, that's completely understandable Ever, just on the topic of these groups, because they are really well-attended groups, aren't they? I think, with the subject of mental health and our own mental health being such a deep subject, how do you get through? How does subject um? How do you get through, like, how does everyone get a chance to talk? Do you have a set amount of time that you're allowed to check in? I'd imagine I'd go to one of these. You'd have, say, 25 people there and it'd get around to me and I'd be like, oh, bloody hell, we've been here two hours. Do you know what I mean? How does it work? I suppose just the logistics of it so we all see.
Speaker 2:So on the first group at um at ripping, I think it was 25, 26 so a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people so we um. Like I said, it's a brief introduction of yourself and everything you've been through and that's the reason we split into two groups.
Speaker 2:Um, I think some of the places are getting over 30, so they split into three groups, yeah, so you've got your facilitators, um, who kind of run the groups um, and they always try and say joe, the question one and two, how has your week been? Um? And then positives, try and like get through them quickly. Don't get me wrong, there's some people who like to go on.
Speaker 1:Um, you sometimes see it in our circles. It's like I deliver training and I'll be just trying to go around and introduce yourself the next thing. Someone's doing a share and I'm like well hang about me, you know I only need to know your name and a little bit you know.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but I think naturally people can, can just, especially when it's important to them, and that is hard because you don't want to interrupt someone when what they're saying is important to them. So I've often wondered, like obviously you've got to, you've got to be a good facilitator, I imagine, to be able to that is appropriately cut people off.
Speaker 2:We spoke about that. There's a list of rules at the beginning which talks about obviously no preaching, no talking about medication, not this and the other. And it does say if a facilitator does like interrupt, you don't take it personally. It's just so we can get through it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So when you so like, as you say, anything to get off your chest can get quite deep sometimes, I can imagine yeah, can get quite deep sometimes.
Speaker 1:I can imagine. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you can be sat there and you can be clock-watching, because the importance of getting them last two questions in is, so you're leaving a high Because if you're in a group and you've just listened to all these things. Shitload of trauma.
Speaker 1:You're going to go out there thinking fuck, do you know what I mean? Coming out worse than I've come in, do you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's the of them. So you do get like a bit of a clock watch, um, but you do have the full two hours and we like to get a bit of a break if it's five minutes, but if we get to say, for instance, at 20 to 9, um, and we've still got the next two questions, we'll just go straight into him, because that's like the highlight of them yeah um, so yeah, that was like.
Speaker 2:So four weeks, four sessions, I've done, and then we got put forward for facilitator training, um which was which was brilliant and a massive achievement yeah um, so the guy dave from thirsk who got me involved with all this he wanted to get one set up in thirsk.
Speaker 2:So I was like, yeah, I'm all for it. You know, we we scoped around looking for places because you've got a list of requirements, you know no open bars and has to be on a mond Monday, you know separate rooms, etc. Etc. So we took some serious time scoping out a lot of places in Thirsk and we just couldn't find anywhere and we were expecting, like maybe May, june, july we'd get a club in Thirsk. But then our area lead, elliot, he said, you know his exact words were I love your two fucking commitment, you know.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give you a club in January. So we were like Jesus God, we've only been going for a few months and we got our first club. It was on Monday, just opened, just opened on Monday. And it's nerve wracking because we've had all this preparation, all this time looking for places. You know, is anyone going to turn up? We knew we had four facilitators there, so there's four of us that are definitely going to be there.
Speaker 2:And thankfully we got the support from some of the guys from the other clubs lads from Rip and Kem one of the guys from Harrogate Kem and I remember I was just so you've got a sweeper. So the sweeper is a guy who walks on the car park after the session starts. So that's purely because people sat in the car. They're nervous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that would be me that I'd get to somewhere. And I've done that to a few things before. I've just sat in my car and I've made up an excuse and I'm gonna fuck, I'm going home. So that's a really good idea to have that, do you?
Speaker 2:know, what? That's an incredible idea the amount of people who have said you know, I've even the facilitators at ripping right, uh dave. For instance, he said um, you know, the first time I drove past, you know, I sat in the car park. I didn't want to go in. And I get that, because walking there's nothing more nerve-wracking.
Speaker 2:You know, you've got your own individual problems and you're going to go share them in front of people that you don't know. But the importance of the facilitators are obviously to have a chat with them, um, and then take you in. They do make you you feel welcome, introduce you to everyone. So having that like importance role of the club, it's brilliant. Yeah, so it's like half six and it's like two people turned up and I was like, oh fucking hell. But, still two people is better than none.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so you're helping two people and I went and made a brew and I came out and got them all up the cars, was it? Elliot was sweeping so he came in with a couple, but they came in dribs and drabs and there was 29 in attendance.
Speaker 1:That's incredible and it was honest to God.
Speaker 2:It was just the achievement. It was like, wow, we think this is going to do brilliant.
Speaker 1:And a lot of them were first-time attendees, I imagine when they were in first go.
Speaker 2:There was 22 for the first time that's incredible Guys had come. One of the guys had come from Yarm, which is about half an hour away, and it was good. It was the first sign I thought this is going to do all right this. This is you know it's and it's the thing is because Sturts is a small-knit town. You know, I always made this joke.
Speaker 1:If you fart in one pub, you go into the next.
Speaker 2:That's what it's like, so I literally had to highlight the fact that everything that happens in the club stays in the club. There's no judgment, it's confidential Because, look, there's nothing worse than thinking you're going to walk into a club and the next one, tom Dick and Harry's talking about you in the pub. But we really highlight that the confidentiality the confidentiality is key. It is key.
Speaker 1:Just talking about this, I think one of the things and it's quite you know, the term toxic masculinity is used a lot, but the idea that men shouldn't share their feelings, that men should be strong and this, that and the other, which, of course, in my opinion, is bullshit, Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I think it takes a stronger man to talk about the things that bother him than to to to bottle them up. What would you say to someone who had that opinion of oh, men shouldn't be sitting around a group sharing the feelings and whatnot.
Speaker 2:I think. I think what I'd have to say to him is have you been through it yourself? I think that's the main thing. Have you had depression? Have you lost someone from suicide? Have you been close to someone who's lost someone? I think until you've been through that yourself, you can have an opinion on everything.
Speaker 1:There's a free speech everywhere.
Speaker 2:But until you've actually been in there and done it yourself, then you'll never realise, you know, because some people will say, oh God, sat there with a group of guys just rattling on, you know. But yeah, it's not like that at all and I use one guy, for instance and he won't mind me saying it all because I use him my positive most weeks is seeing this guy called Andrew, and so he came in the first week and he was a wreck, an absolute wreck. And two, three weeks after do you know what Don't get me wrong he's still hurting with the trauma that's happened in his life but he's talking out do you know what?
Speaker 2:He's promoting the club himself, so he's giving all these first-timers like an idea of what it's like. And God, I almost gave him my facilitator jumper on Monday because he said you know my name's Andrewrew.
Speaker 2:I've been this um. After my first session it was like a 20 ton lift off my shoulders, um, and it's not until you hear people who have been through that. So I guess, unless anyone's really been into it and like they can say what they want about it but they don't really have an idea- don't judge until you've walked a mile in the shoes exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I think that's the saying. Anyway, I could be wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's incredible to have it, and I mean I myself, you know I struggled a lot when my daughter was first born. I felt really overwhelmed by the responsibilities of being a dad and I remember looking into the Andy's man Club thing and the reason why I didn't go is because I just felt so, I felt guilty leaving my wife with the baby. Yeah, but it was at the time. I remember reading stories online that people were sharing about how the club had helped them and it was really that point where I thought I should really go to something like this and I referred myself for mental health support and by the time mental health support actually got back in touch with me to do my triage, I was like you know, it's been three months, I'm fine now yeah, yeah, you know I made that referral when she was just a few days old, when I was like, overwhelmed to fight, I can't do this, I'm good
Speaker 1:you know. And then by the time mental health support got in touch with me, I was like no, I'm fine now, but there was an element where I thought I could just go to this meeting today, and that's how quick it can be. Do you know what I mean? You don't have to wait. I know I'm not saying you guys are professionals in that sense, but for that peer-to-peer support element, when waiting lists for mental health can be so long there's a meeting on a week-by-week basis, sometimes multiple meetings a week Just fucking go. Do you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean it's funny you say that because before we were getting all set up for Thirsk, we had to do a video, me and Dave, just to try and say what Andy's man comes about. And that's what I said. I said, you know, we aren't counsellors, we aren't therapy.
Speaker 1:I'm a painter and decorator.
Speaker 2:But just come along. And that's when I had the chat with my grandma. She was a social worker for God years in Middlesbrough and I asked her about mental health has it always been around? And she said obviously, when the Mental Health Act was introduced it was a case of getting into a straitjacket, into a padded room and all that yeah yeah, and like I said since my dad, the thing of mental health is just everywhere now, which I never really heard about it.
Speaker 1:Somebody said something along the lines of me before which I thought was interesting was that mental health is so it's so pushed now that, um, encouraging people to talk about mental health will lead to a mental health crisis, and I didn't get what he meant at the time, but I think you're kind of seeing that now in the sense of because everyone's so open about the mental health and talking about it and wanting to receive support for it.
Speaker 1:That's when the waiting times for mental health support naturally is getting longer and longer and longer. Yeah, because the difference is between feeling depressed and having depression, feeling anxious and having anxiety, and I think having those meetings again is a massive uh help on to to really kind of like hold up the support system and helping people, maybe until to the point of where they get, like, um, I suppose, a clinical or a medical intervention in terms of mental health as well.
Speaker 1:So I don't think it can be understood how important groups like what what you have are really is in in the, in the wider community as well yeah, they are massive.
Speaker 2:Uh, and, like you said, we've all got regular jobs. We're just volunteers but, in the rules before it said the only time we'll go out and talk about. So say, for instance, someone comes in and they're going to cause harm to themselves or to anyone else, but then we will talk about and try and get them referred. But like they say, this is like a peer-to-peer talking group but we always list out the Samaritans and everything else, if you do need.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you need further support Further support at the time, but do you know what it's unbelievable? Favourite support at the time, but do you know what it's unbelievable? I never thought in a million years that a group of lads just sat having a cup of tea dunking their biscuits in talking about the problems and the thing that sticks out to me there's a couple of guys that have come in saying I've heard all these stories, I've got a good wife, I've got a good job, I've got kids, but there's something that's keeping me like from anxiety, for instance, that I have to come to these clubs and it doesn't matter what problem you've got.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter, it's causing your life stress.
Speaker 1:So, like I say, it doesn't care that Tom Dick, it's not a Dick measuring contest about who's got it the worst does it.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I?
Speaker 1:mean, I think that would be my thing. Do you know, like it was something that was pointing to me, as I mentioned then about the, the depression I felt my daughter was first born. Someone made a comment to me when oh, we'll just think there's plenty of people out there were really trying for a baby that can't have a baby, and I was like, and then I felt guilty about feeling like shit, that I've got this opportunity to be a dad and I don't know how to handle it and I was like fuck me and I get what I was trying to do, but I was like that just made me feel worse.
Speaker 1:So I suppose that's the difference, I guess, in terms of where you're going to get advice from. And is that what happens in these groups, not necessarily in that negative way, but are the lads sort of like giving each other advice, or is it just you just talk and then people listen?
Speaker 2:Basically, it's fantastic, right? So you have a talking ball. So if you go to these groups, there's no pressure to talk If you don't want to talk, which some guys, for the first time, have just passed the ball on, so you can get a feel of it all, but it's, it's good, you know, because when we break up into the groups, say, one person will be talking about one thing and then another guy like, oh well, I've had that. And then another guy, I've had that.
Speaker 1:So we always said never interrupt talk. But it's good how like different people can and they can form little friendships. Yeah, because they've been through similar experiences and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly like, for instance on on. One of the questions on on monday was uh, what's a hobby that you don't do, enough of, that you would like to do so one guy mentioned about going to the the motorbike racing and then another guy was like oh well, I like to do up cars and stuff. Another guy was like oh well, I like to do up cars and stuff. Another guy was like oh, I'm into bike racing too, so it's literally like being like in an absolute bike and car fest.
Speaker 1:It's like that scene in Step Brothers. It's like did we just become best friends? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I've? I met a guy he just happened to come down to the Rippon man Club two weeks ago because Harrogate was shut off because of all the snow, and he was in my group and we've just instantly formed like a friendship.
Speaker 1:It feels like, and that is the exact moment we say have you just become best friends? Yeah, that's brilliant. What would you, I suppose, if I asked you to sell it to someone now, in a very short way, someone who was maybe thinking about going, but kind of, like you said, the type of person that might just drive straight past, sit in the car? What would be the one thing you'd say to them to encourage them to come to a meeting?
Speaker 2:I said this at the beginning. I said obviously we cannot hashtag this because it's profanity. But I've always said hashtag fucking brilliant.
Speaker 1:I've always said that.
Speaker 2:But I think the main thing is, as a guy, whatever you're going through depression, anxiety, just anything I think once you get into them you're not alone. You realise, you know you are not in this alone.
Speaker 2:There's loads of people together. Like I said, 29 people just from a small town in Thirsk, and then the numbers are adding up as well. I think there was just short of 6,000 who attended across the country. But I think, yeah, that's the main thing to realise is you're not alone, and that is. It's huge for them. And I say to people as well I try and encourage them look, if you are coming to start new, go sober. It doesn't happen overnight. It took me months.
Speaker 1:It took me yeah months.
Speaker 2:And I'm still working, still working now to get where I am. But I got. So I got one message. Oh God, I'm going to fucking break down again here.
Speaker 2:I got a message leading up to the man club from and I thought it was just a guy inquiring about it and it was from Mark. So I opened it up and he said hi Ross, you won't remember me, but I was the paramedic who turned up first at the scene when you tried to take your own life. I've just seen you on this man club video. And he said I'm absolutely fucking buzzing. He said I've plucked up the courage to message you because I didn't want to bring back trauma. I didn't think if it was going to be unprofessional. But he said every time I go on Facebook all I see is your face. I've had to message you and, face off, had to message her. And I was like oh my god, thank you so much for messaging me. So he arranged to meet up on the thursday and I was nervous as hell. I thought this guy has saved my life and I'm nervous going to meet him. And I pulled up and say my name's me, geordie lad, and I just I could see the tears in his eyes in mind. I just gave him the biggest hug ever and he told me his part of the story.
Speaker 2:So he was working the Saturday morning, his colleague was, it just took a bit of overtime. I was hoping for a quiet day and that was the first call and he said I don't know what it was, ross, he said, because I attend these calls all the time. But he said yours is just always stuck in my head. He said I turned up. He said your mum was absolutely exhausted, so me and mum have never spoke about what happened that day. He said we had to take over from your mum. He said we literally had to flip all your furniture in your house. He said your mum had been working on you for about 15, 20 minutes and he said we had 10 paramedics who worked on you for over an hour. The air ambulance turned up and they took me off to hospital, not in the air ambulance, they turned up just to carry on working on me.
Speaker 2:And Mark said in his debrief after it all happened he said we'll never see that lad again. And he said so. Obviously we can't chase up what has happened to people because we see it day in, day out. He said but honest to God, to see your face and to see what you are doing now is just absolutely amazing. So that triggered the chat to have my mum about what she saw. Yeah, and it was a tough, tough, tough talk.
Speaker 2:She came into the house and she thought I was dead. She said, ross, she said you were just blue in the face. All your face was slumped and she said I'd grabbed all of you. She said I couldn't physically pull you down and this oh, I forgot to mention this bit but if you believe in fate or not, the week before I actually did it, my grandma asked my mum if I wanted anything for the house. Like I mentioned before, I like cooking. So she bought me a sharp knife. Mum said when I came in, that was on the side. She said that was the first thing I saw. She said without that sharp knife I wouldn't have been able to cut you down. So she cut me down and she said Ross. She said I was physically exhausted, I was resuscitating you and she said I was dripping with sweat. And she said when the paramedics came in they had to take me outside.
Speaker 1:And treat her as well, sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look after her and she said they just kept coming in, kept coming in, coming in. He said they just flipped all your stuff while they sat on work. Sonia, he said it was horrendous and then so we'd not spoke about that for what? 20 months. So that was hard and I think it put into realisation like how lucky I am to know.
Speaker 2:And to have this. I said to him do you mind, if I like, take a picture and put a post up? He said absolutely, and I remember putting my post um to have this effect on someone's life whose job it was was to save mine was massive Um, cause he, he was said, you know, I always wondered what had happened to you, um, and so now I've kept in touch with Mark and I think I must've hugged him about 20 times and just told him thank you to him and his colleagues. But, yeah, to actually hear other people's side stories.
Speaker 1:It's so important that and we'll probably kind of finish it on this as well, because I think that's so important, especially when we talk about drug addiction Because the paramedics one thing. That again, this is my interpretation, I think paramedics when they get the call about an overdose, it's met with oh for fuck's sake, I should be out there saving someone from a heart attack, something that they haven't done to themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you sometimes see like or maybe it's just my interpretation of it the attitude of paramedics when they're working on someone who's had a drug overdose, almost like it's an inconvenience to them yeah, but they do the job because it's their job.
Speaker 1:Now, there's something in that where I think I just wish you could those paramedics of all the people I've spoken to that have had overdoses, like you said, the paramedics they'll will never see that person again, and it's right, they often don't.
Speaker 1:They don't see what happens, and I'd love for them to see what happens when people finally do get recovery and understand that what they're doing whilst at the time it may feel like an inconvenience or yes, I should be doing this, I should be doing this yes, it feels like, oh, this person's done this to themselves. I wish they could see what they had done in that moment and how those people are getting on now in life once they achieve recovery, because if they didn't do what they did, that person wouldn't be where they are today, and I just wish they could see the end of it, because I think it's something that it almost saddens me a little bit that the paramedics don't see the end result of what they contribute to. So, hearing that story from yourself about someone that has worked on on yourself, and seeing how many people go on and start sharing their story, start working in such a public facing role in the way that you are, I just wish they could see the recovery, see the end journey of that person and what they have contributed to.
Speaker 2:What Mark has said to me. He says I almost feel guilty when I turn up to signs of suicides, people trying to step their own life. He said when I save their life. He said I feel guilty because that person doesn't want to be here. He said so I almost feel a bit of guilt about myself. And he said he took some posters off. My friend his and he said he took some posters off me for Andy's man Club. He said I'm going to promote your story to everyone.
Speaker 1:And yeah, not very often. I don't think it's often at all At all, no so hearing that?
Speaker 2:just do you know what it just gives the rocket up your ass just to keep doing what you're doing, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:No, thank you, Ross. You talked about Andy's man Club, how they like to end their sessions with some light-hearted questions, and we do the same thing here. So my first question for you is what is your favourite word?
Speaker 2:Can it be? Absolutely. Excuse me, probably fucking hell, because I say it quite a lot in my business.
Speaker 1:Least favourite word.
Speaker 2:Least favourite word Probably moist.
Speaker 1:Moist, tell me something that excites you.
Speaker 2:Can it be clean? Excites me, I think. Just seeing other people's recovery stories that really does give a massive, massive excitement. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Tell me something that doesn't excite you.
Speaker 2:Negative people.
Speaker 1:What sound or noise do you love? O negative people. What sound or noise do you love? Oasis what sound or noise do you hear? Um, probably all this pop shit that's out at the moment if you could do any job in the world other than you, what you're currently doing now. What would you like it to be other than what you're currently doing now?
Speaker 2:what would you like it to be? Oh God, it's a tough one. That is a tough one. I've always said I'd like to do what my dad did at the beginning and come back as a jockey, I think.
Speaker 1:What's the worst job you could ever imagine doing?
Speaker 2:Worst job Probably cleaning toilets or sewerage and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:I used to do cleaning toilets.
Speaker 2:Oh did you.
Speaker 1:No, you're right, it was. It was absolutely awful. I don't know how people miss the toilet.
Speaker 2:But there you are. It's like how the fuck is that another there was?
Speaker 1:another story. Uh, and then, lastly, what would you like to hear god say, um, when you arrive at the pearly gates, um, your dad's been fine here.
Speaker 2:He is here's a hug.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's lovely yeah ross, thank you so much for being a believing people. It it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thank you, matey, thank you.
Speaker 1:And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, we'd love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Leaving a review will help us reach more people and continue challenging stigma around addiction and recovery. For additional resources, insights and updates, explore the links in this episode description and to learn more about our mission and hear more incredible stories, you can visit us directly at believingpeoplepodcastcom.
