Enjoying Life OTR

#56 Ben Grunenwald: Overcoming Adversity and Embracing Change

• Cindy Tunstall and Ben Grunenwald • Episode 56

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What if your toughest challenges became the stepping stones to your greatest triumphs? Join us as we sit down with Ben Grunenwald, a remarkable figure in the trucking industry, who shares his incredible journey from hardship to success. From dropping out of high school and facing homelessness to becoming the youngest driver in his company, Ben's story is a testament to resilience and determination. Listen as he recounts his early fascination with trucking, inspired by his grandfather, and his rise through the ranks to become an expert in safety management.

Ever wondered how a roadside breakdown could lead to an encounter with automotive legends? Ben takes us through his adventurous six years on the road, including a memorable breakdown near Barstow, California, that serendipitously led him to a Carroll Shelby car museum in Las Vegas. There, he met Michael Shelby and got a sneak peek at the unreleased Shelby Series 7. Beyond his professional adventures, Ben also shares a heartwarming tale of reconnecting and marrying a former girlfriend after 20 years apart, highlighting the unexpected twists and personal milestones that define a trucker's life.

Curious about the future of the trucking industry? Ben delves into the rise of autonomous trucks and technological advancements shaping the field. Hear his thoughts on how these changes could impact drivers and the benefits they might bring. Learn about his transition from night shifts to higher education in criminal justice and supply chain management, all while maintaining a growth mindset and positive outlook. This episode is packed with practical strategies for personal and professional development, making it a must-listen for anyone in the trucking community or those interested in the evolving landscape of this essential industry.

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Enjoying Life OTR—because LIVING WELL is worth the effort. We’re sparking curiosity, adventure, & resilience while honoring drivers and embracing a healthier trucking life. Discover creative life hacks & practical strategies to make the most of your time on the road. Join the movement!Explore, enjoy the food, snap the pic, and share tips on saving money along the way.

This podcast is for new and veteran drivers looking to stay mentally, physically, and financially strong while embracing the freedom of the road. We bring you real stories, expert advice, & practical tools to help you thrive, not just survive, in the trucking life.

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For questions or to be a guest, email our host, Cindy Tunstall at EnjoyingLifeOTR@gmail.com #HealthierTruckers #EnjoyingLifeOTR #TruckerWellness #OTRLife #WorkLifeBalance



Speaker 1:

Enjoying Life OTR Conversations that inspire curiosity, adventure and resilience. We're honoring drivers and sharing their adventures and becoming healthier truckers. Stay tuned to discover creative life hacks and practical strategies for enhancing our well-being and making the most of our time on the road. Welcome to Enjoying Life, OTR.

Dino Grigoriadis:

Hey truckers, this is Dino, your roadie and guide on the side. Ever feel like industry regulations are a double-edged sword, Meant to keep us safe but also driving us up the wall? I know what you're thinking. That's because it's made by people who know nothing about trucking to regulate trucking instead of asking those who do nothing but trucking. Well, today we're pulling back the curtain with a guest who's seen it all from both sides of the windshield. He's got some intriguing insights on industry regulations that might just surprise you. Whether you love him or hate him, you'll want to hear what this industry veteran has to say about the rules of the road. So grab a cup of coffee, settle in, because we're about to hit the highway of safety talk.

Cindy Tunstall:

Welcome back to Enjoying Life OTR podcast. My name is Cindy Tunstall and I'm your host Today. Our guest is Ben Grunewald. He has a wonderful attitude. He's got a proactive approach to doing life and a lot of wisdom to share. He's a veteran in our industry and I can't wait for you to meet him. Welcome to the show, ben.

Ben Grunenwald:

Thank you, cindy, it's nice to be here.

Cindy Tunstall:

Well, I'm excited for our audience to meet you. Do us a favor in the beginning, just tell us a little bit about your career, what's your role in the industry, and just so we could get to know you just a little bit, and then we'll kind of do a deep dive and get into some background stuff.

Ben Grunenwald:

Sure, okay. Currently I work in the safety department for one of the larger refueling carriers in the country. Part of my job is to supervise or to oversee the five departments of risk management in the trucking industry. It's a job that I took recently in an effort to advance my career off of the road but still stay in the industry. I started the trucking industry when I was oh, probably 14. I took a ride with my grandfather. He was an employee with John Deere, got laid off, wasn't sure what to do, didn't want to go back to farming, so I went to truck driving school and one summer I was able to take a ride with them up to Pickleball Lode just outside of Sheboygan, wisconsin. And I got hooked on the industry since then and I knew that when I was getting older and I was able to actually attend truck driving school. It was an industry that took me on, given my kind of questionable past, and it's just been a part of me ever since.

Cindy Tunstall:

Do you mind sharing a little bit about the questionable past that might have made it challenging for you to get in?

Ben Grunenwald:

Yeah, sure, little bit about the questionable past that might have made it challenging for you to get in. Yeah, sure, I see. I dropped out of high school when I was just 18 years old. My, my, uh. My house wasn't my parents house wasn't a very nice place to be in, and I decided I wanted to go out and work instead of go to school. The only way I was going to be able to afford and work instead of go to school, the only way I was going to be able to afford that, was to not go to school at all. So I dropped out of high school.

Ben Grunenwald:

The relationship I was with my girlfriend at the time, I moved in with her and I wasn't able to keep a job. I don't know, there's something about my work ethic or I should say a lack of work ethic that didn't allow me to keep a job. You can call it immaturity, I don't know Whatever you want to label it, but I just couldn't keep a job. And so she and I ultimately broke up. And when we broke up, I was homeless up. And when we broke up, I was homeless and the only job that I could find for a high school dropout was the local truck driving school the same one that my grandfather went to and so that's where I went. I went right into truck driving school and then, once I graduated truck driving school, I went right into an overall position, and I was there for about six years.

Cindy Tunstall:

Wow, so you were driving very young. So how old were you when you started driving a big rig?

Ben Grunenwald:

I had just turned 22. I had just turned 22 and, uh, it was, I just turned 22 and the trucking company that I went to work for for the first time they're no longer in business because of some some uh legal issues with one of their, with one of their customers, but they had to make an exception to their insurance policy because I wasn't of age yet, or I was just barely of age yet, and that's where I got my CV handle at was they always called me the kid because I was the youngest driver they ever had, because I was still too young for their insurance policy and the only way that they're able to get me insured was I had to stay with my trainer for six months, and he's still a friend of mine to this day.

Cindy Tunstall:

Wow, I love that. You're really fortunate because even now, the trucking companies and insurance are just a hard no. So you're lucky that they even were able to make an exception for you at that time and be able to begin your career.

Ben Grunenwald:

Yeah, I agree and I'm still thankful for him for that opportunity. He was one of the best. He was an owner-operator and he took me on and they don't tell you that he took me on not to be my trainer because he wanted to run his truck like a team truck. Anyone in the industry knows that a team truck can make a lot of money.

Cindy Tunstall:

Yeah, especially when they're operator well, tell me a little bit. I haven't had a, um, a milk tanker driver on the show yet, so and I personally don't know, I haven't had conversations with the driver that's doing that kind of freight. Could you tell me a little bit about that type of work and then the unique challenges that the work presents, and maybe a story where you've had to overcome some challenges in that work? Yeah, sure so.

Ben Grunenwald:

I started driving a milk truck about 15 years ago, and since my grandfather was an old dairy farmer, I grew up on a dairy farm here and there, so I knew the ins and outs of how to work around the inside of a milk house.

Ben Grunenwald:

But because of the nature and the security of it, you have to be licensed by a couple different agencies in order to be able to pick up the farm milk. Plus, you have to be able to tolerate the sounds and the smells that go with working on a farm. The biggest challenge for picking up raw milk off the farm is and it's a quote that any milk heart will tell you is the milk has to get picked up. We don't have bad weather, and so combine that with the fact that we don't have baffles in our tanks, and some of these tanks, like the current one that I drive, it's a 9 000 gallon tank. It can hold seven, seven thousand pounds of milk, and if you get 77 77 000 pounds of milk going in bad weather and you don't know how to control that truck, you're going to lose it, and so you always have to be aware that that nook will make you go where it wants to go if you lose it.

Cindy Tunstall:

That sounds horrible. It's very stressful. So can you tell me about some stories? Donnie, you care a lot about safety and you still continue to do work on that. What's the way that you're preventing accidents and how are you training drivers to be able to overcome those challenges? What's involved in that process?

Ben Grunenwald:

That's.

Ben Grunenwald:

You know that question can only be answered when you look at the driver itself, should only be answered when you look at the driver itself.

Ben Grunenwald:

When you have young drivers coming fresh out of school, you have to be able to teach them or to describe to them what can happen, what will happen if you let that truck get out of hand and it's easier to stay, to keep the truck under control and with the equipment that we have today automatic transmissions and jake brakes that control the truck a little bit easier.

Ben Grunenwald:

E-logs where you're not really focused on making sure that your hours of duty are up to status or up to par, the computer is going to do it for you as a no-caller. We don't really have to work with e-logs anymore because we're ad-exempt. And to try and be able to explain that to a driver, especially with one that calls in and asks questions about the logbook and criticisms about the logbook and I have to explain to them that in some instances a logbook protects you from well, from driver managers and other people in the industry that really don't respect your time. You try and make sure that you're there for them and you're trying to teach them that the logbook isn't hindering them, but rather is protecting them from from predator driver managers that that have been or still out there and trying and the government isn't there to stop them from earning money, but rather to protect them in the public, the motoring public, from any dangers that might become, as from driving a truck tired or in bad weather or circumstances like that.

Cindy Tunstall:

I hear drivers talk a lot about e-logs Of course, drivers that have been on the road much longer than I have. I've only been in the industry four years but I personally am a fan of e-logs. I like it that it's mandatory stop and I have a reason to tell my shipper or receiver or whoever's trying to send me out over hours that you know I just can't and I won't because I know for me I need the break and I need the safety. But I think the biggest pushback that I still hear from drivers is that they know that they could take a two-hour, you know, take a break, a 30, a 30-minute break, an hour break, and then still extend their drive time in a really healthy, safe way. Or if they get delayed at the shipper and so their day doesn't actually start until like noon, you know, and they're just limited, it just forces them to make themselves rest in a way that's not ideal for them that particular day.

Cindy Tunstall:

But for me, the type of freight that I run and the schedules that I run, it's really helpful for me. But I still hear a lot of pushback about e-logs. So I'm always welcome to hear other drivers talk about the benefits and have a different perspective on that. I'm not a fan of big government myself, but, you know, I do see this as a way that's helpful and, honestly, I'm thankful that drivers aren't able to drive, you know, 20 hours in a day and that makes me, um, you know, feel more comfortable on the road.

Ben Grunenwald:

Yeah, when I started driving, the first thing that my trainer taught me was how to shift the truck. The second thing he taught me was how to falsify a log book, and I don't know how many of your listeners remember paper logs and loose leaf log books. But keep it one, two, three log books up to date, one being your real one, one being your one you give the DOT. Those were very stressful times because you could have told your driver manager, your dispatcher, you didn't have the hours, but he or she didn't care. You're going to go.

Ben Grunenwald:

Now you don't have that problem, and I think it's a good thing, because anyone can open up the web browser and read about drivers that were involved in a fatal accident. Now they're in prison because their logbook says they shouldn't have been there. And when I hear drivers coming into the business that have two, three, four years of experience and they're glad to hear about logbook, it actually makes my job a little bit easier, because I don't have to defend the logbook. I have to defend against the old guys, the guys that have been doing it for a while, because, just like you said, they're not a damn big government and they think that an e-log is going to stop them from making money, and it's really not. It's just trying to save them so they can get home to their families.

Cindy Tunstall:

Yeah, yeah.

Ben Grunenwald:

I'm a fan of e-logs. I'm glad they made them mandatory and they're even easier to use as the technology gets better. We just instituted a new I guess you could say computer program that actually monitors what we call creeping. You know, the old technology is you could creep a truck and wouldn't be able to pick it up, but now you can. The technology is so good that we can spot a truck creeping at 50 feet.

Cindy Tunstall:

Yeah, and you've had a long career in the industry. What is it specifically about trucking that makes you still continue to be so passionate over a 25 year span? You've gone from um driving and done some otr in the past and now really focused on safety, and what is it about the industry that really continues to drive you?

Ben Grunenwald:

I love the fact that it's one of the very few industries that you can go to school for three weeks, put years of experience into it and make six figures a year, depending on how hard you work. I like the fact that it's an industry that welcomes everybody. You can go through the last 25 years and every economic downturn that the country faces. You will see a spike in the amount of people that go to truck driving school. It is one of those industries that, yes, right now we're still on a downturn of freight because of COVID, but it's picking up.

Ben Grunenwald:

You rarely see driver layoffs and yourself as a woman, the technology of the trucks. It allows women to be a little bit more welcomed because it's not so mechanically intensive anymore, and I'm not saying that against women, but sometimes back in the day these trucks were big and they were hard to steer and hard to shift. That's not the case so much. So it opens up the industry to a lot of different types of people, and it's different types of people that actually make this world go around and it's a pleasure to see them out there and talk to them, like yourself.

Cindy Tunstall:

Yeah, I'm the same way. I really feel like the diversity of the industry is something that's very appealing to me, that you know you can work hard and provide well for your family, so I have similar passions for the industry, obviously as a woman. You mentioned that you had taken, you did OTR. For about what was it? Six years? You said yes, six years. Any adventures or fun stories that you want to share during that season of your career?

Ben Grunenwald:

I don't think there was any that could be put on air. Oh, I take that back. There are a couple.

Cindy Tunstall:

Okay, let's hear it.

Ben Grunenwald:

So the first serious break I never had. I was coming out of Barstow, california, into Vegas and the radiator of the old Freightliner FLB 120,. I was coming out of Barstow, california, into Vegas and the radiator of the old Freightliner FLB 120 that I was driving went out and I lost all coolant on the side of I think it was Interstate 40 or Interstate 15, I can't remember which one. But I ended up having to get towed into Vegas and the Freightliner dealer in Vegas at that time was just down the road from Petro, the Petro station, right outside of Vegas. So I was eating at the Iron Skillet waiting for the Freightliner dealer to do the truck and I'm looking through the window and I see this silver and red car driving into a garage just right behind there and I thought you, you know, I've never seen that car like that before. I thought it was kind of cool and I had some time, so I decided to walk across the parking lot to go and take a look at this car.

Ben Grunenwald:

I'm kind of a car guy in a way, so I go in there and I'm looking in this garage and there's this car, the silver and red car. But there was also about eight or nine models or versions of this very same car. I'm thinking, well, what is this? And it turns out that it's a car museum. So I walk around the door or the side of this museum to go inside the front door and it's a museum for Carol Shelby, the famous Mustang racer. Oh nice. So I go inside and I didn't know they were open. I had no idea they were there. I know Carol Shelby, but I was never really familiar with them.

Ben Grunenwald:

But inside this museum there was like four or five different Shelby cars a Shelby Charger in there or a Shelby Daytona Charger in there, or a Shelby truck. They didn't have any Shelby Mustangs, but they had a couple of different versions that had a Shelby name on it. And I was talking to this gentleman about Carroll Shelby and his story of racing fast and little did I know. A few weeks later I was looking at some car magazines and the guy I was talking to was Carroll Shelby's son. His name was Michael.

Ben Grunenwald:

I had no idea who I was talking to, but he was telling me that the car that I was looking at was a new Shelby Series 7. That was an actual Shelby car. It wasn't one that was made by another car manufacturer, that was customized by the Shelby Motorsports. It was an actual Shelby car. Oh wow. So I kind of think that I was one of the very few people in the public that actually got to see the Series 7 before it was actually released to the media or to the public. I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah, I love that.

Cindy Tunstall:

That's awesome.

Ben Grunenwald:

That's really all I can think about right now.

Cindy Tunstall:

Well, something else comes, you know, just go ahead and bring it up. Okay, so you ever go into OTR now. Are you still getting in the truck, or how's that working now? Are you driving at all now?

Ben Grunenwald:

Yeah, I still pick up milk. The last time I was OTR I went out in this past January. Otr I went out in this past January. My boss needed someone to run down to Kansas to pick up a load of salt for a cheese plant, and I was the only driver that he had available and I figured, why not?

Ben Grunenwald:

I'll run down there real quick, and so I took a couple of days to get out there. I got loaded up just outside of Hutchinson, kansas, with salt going back to a cheese plant here in Durham, wisconsin. That stuck, but it was that week that we had back-to-back blizzards in the Midwest, so a run that took it was supposed to take a day and a half actually ended up taking three just to get back home. Wow. But I remember what it was like to be out there and I was kind of glad to be home. But on occasion I will go out and I'll spend a couple days out in the room.

Cindy Tunstall:

Well, I like that. It's probably good for your crew to keep you ready to be able to be with the drivers.

Ben Grunenwald:

Yeah, it is.

Cindy Tunstall:

Well, tell me a little bit. What's a unique story or something that you've experienced over your career that might entertain our audience? Do you have anything in mind you want to share?

Ben Grunenwald:

I do so? You remember that, girlfriend, I was telling you about that I broke up with to start my trucking career. Yeah, we're married now. Oh nice. So because of social media, about was 10, no, 5 years ago. About 5 years ago, she had messaged me on Facebook and asked if I wanted my class room back and I hadn't heard from her in 20 years. Right. So I said, sure, I can be down there, because we delivered down to where she was at at the time. There's a cheese plant that I stopped at and delivered a load to every now and then the next time I told her, the next time I was down there I'd swing by and pick it up. And so this was the middle of October that she messaged me, and probably the first part of November I took a run down there and took a pick on my class ring. And now here we are five years later, six years later and married.

Cindy Tunstall:

Wow. And so how far did she live from you at that time? Like, how did you guys start a relationship? Was she far or not too far?

Ben Grunenwald:

Not too far. She was when it comes to a truck driver, you know, not too far is 150 miles, Sure, sure. So, and that's where it was At that time. I was living up around the Manitowoc Wisconsin area and she lived down close to the Wisconsin-Iowa border and there's a cheese plant down this way that I was delivering to and I had a little bit of time, and so I stopped and took out my class ring and got to talking and realized that we might have called things off a little early and she was impressed that I was no longer the individual I was when we broke up 27 years ago and I wasn't committed to anybody and she wasn't committed to anybody, and so we just figured, hey, let's try dating. And well, here we are and living in a house that we bought a couple years ago and living a good life.

Cindy Tunstall:

That's an incredible story. It's like you were soulmates back then and just had to work some stuff out to get it right. I love this story.

Ben Grunenwald:

Yes, when people ask me about it, I say you know, sometimes you have to lose something to learn how to keep it.

Cindy Tunstall:

Yeah, I love that. There's a lot of wisdom in that statement. Well, so do you mind if I talk to you about your background and how you got to this place, where you know what that process was for you? You mentioned that you know growing up in a parent's situation wasn't quite ideal, and you could share as much about that as you want, or not at all, if you want also. But I'd be interested in the journey, like, how did you get from facing those obstacles?

Cindy Tunstall:

Because a lot of people honestly and you know this, ben, you know been around, so you know, but you know many people don't ever make that shift. You know they have the challenging upbringing you know, at various degrees some very severe and abusive and horrible and yet they can overcome and manage to live a healthy, productive life. And then there's other people that have even sometimes a less challenging situation but never really get past that. So would you mind sharing a little bit about your journey, how you got from there to? You know you can tell how much how it started out if you want to, but I'd be curious to hear about the journey that you went that made you this better person that you know. Now you're able to have this healthy, happy relationship? Obviously a thriving career in the industry, so I'd love to hear more about that. If you want to share Sure.

Ben Grunenwald:

I guess we could start with my parents. My dad grew up in a small Midwest farming community in southwestern Wisconsin and he and my mother met while he was in med school. They were both working at a retirement home just outside of Iowa Grant County area. He joined the Air Force as a I can't remember not a CNA, but something in an emergency room for one of the hospitals in the Air Force, went on, they got married they had myself and my brother, and he developed or secretly kept some emotional disorders from everyone and turned out to be not a very nice person growing up, and it was especially hard because someone like me, who's bullheaded, stubborn and will defend whatever he feels is right. My father and I butted heads all the time and later on in high school, when I told him that I didn't want to be in his house anymore, it was either sink or swim and his rules are the highway. So I chose the highway and that's going to keep it nice. There's some nuances there that I really don't want to talk about. Sure, that's fine.

Cindy Tunstall:

Totally fine.

Ben Grunenwald:

But ultimately I decided that I did not want to end up like that. I did not want to end up being someone that rolls over and takes what life gives them, and I hold on to that to this very day. I think that one of the greatest freedoms that a person can have is the ability to look at their career, to look at their benefits, to look at their bank account and do whatever it is. Go wherever they want, on whenever they can, because there's nothing keeping them back. If you take a look at careers that are decently paying with minimum education, trucking is one of those companies and I try to pass it on to my kids, I try to pass it on to young drivers. If you can protect your career and you can save a little money here and there, nothing is stopping you from doing whatever you wanna do. I find this really interesting Ben.

Cindy Tunstall:

So I think it really ties into your working in safety. Now I mean your appreciation for what the career offers and this bent that you have based from your past. Like you know, this is the situation I'm in. What can I do to make it better? That's something that's deeply ingrained in you. Would you say that's true?

Ben Grunenwald:

It is true, I have a degree in law enforcement. It's true, it is true, I have a degree in law enforcement. I went to. I was driving, I was working as a supervisor on a night shift up in Green Bay for four years. I went to school for my criminal justice degree with the intent of transferring over to some kind of safety department because I started to see that the industry was going in a direction that was going to need people that had both experience but foresight to be able to share that experience on a positive side. And it hasn't stopped. I'm continuing my education. Right now I'm working on my supply chain degree and the role I have in safety. It has a stop and continue education. Right now I'm working on my supply chain degree and the role I have in safety right now, covering the five divisions of risk management. I have that ability to tell drivers the same thing, but this time my podium is a little bit bigger because I have 3,500 drivers.

Cindy Tunstall:

Wow, wow. So where do you see your next steps, what do you plan to do with this um, this new education, where you like to see yourself going, and what's your role in the industry?

Ben Grunenwald:

I want to stay in the transportation. I want to stay in trucking. It's where my bread and butter is, it's where my heart is. Um, I'm never going to be able to leave it. So I want to eventually become a safety director, the guy that has the safety department. I have this desire in me that I want to make this industry better, but I don't want to be that old-time truck driver that talks bad about the industry, that it's changed, that it's not meant for me anymore. I want to be able to sit down and talk to a driver that's six, eight a year out of driving school and tell him or her this is what it used to be. This is why it's still as good as it used to be, but this is why it's going to be better than it was 20 years ago. I don't think a guy or I don't think an individual that that doesn't have the force that I have can do that without sounding condescending or bitter about it.

Cindy Tunstall:

I really love the things that you're sharing, ben. I obviously I my brand and my podcast is Enjoying Life OTR. So personally, that says I have an optimistic bent about life and I'm really all about focusing on the good and the changes that we can make. But I also really value resilience and thinking about that and there are challenges that we have to overcome and I really loved your proactive approach. It's not denying the problems. It's not taking, you know, not throwing out all of the past or, you know, looking toward the future in just rose-colored glasses. So I really love your balanced approach and I can see how, as you know a leader in the industry that drivers would find a great deal of respect working for you in your outlook. So I'm really honored to hear your story.

Ben Grunenwald:

Well, thank you. It's something that means a lot to me and I try to tell drivers that I talk to, that I have some experience and I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I'm not trying to be that guy that says it's either my way or the highway. I don't want to do that. But what I do, what I do like to do, is be able to show them or at least guide them in the direction. That's going to be a win-win situation for all of us. I'm not out there to tell a driver he can't drive or she can't drive, but rather give them tips. That makes their jobs easier, makes the roads safer, puts a little bit more money in their pocket, a little bit more money in our pocket, and when, at the end of the day, we can call it a good day and everybody wins.

Cindy Tunstall:

What are some things that you've done over the years that help you to stay on this growth mindset? Are there books or things that you're reading, or podcasts? Because I know there's so much negativity, I think, about my social media presence and I have to be really careful of what I'm taking in because I know it can start to make me snarky when I'm not that kind of person. So I have to be really intentional to maintain a growth mindset and staying on that path. Are there any strategies or things that you have discovered that work really well for you to continue on this, you know, with this proactive mindset, I guess?

Ben Grunenwald:

Sure, there's a couple of them and that might be a little bit of a tearjerker, for me especially the first one is I always want to be a little bit better than I was the day before.

Ben Grunenwald:

Social media is a great tool, but it's also, or it can be, a very toxic tool, and the reason I say that is because you can and I believe this is how you and I got connected was one of the Facebook pages that we both follow, and it can be sometimes a little negative, but it doesn't always have to be, and I just try to be a little bit better than I was the day before. So whenever I see a post that I can point out something that's negative about it, I just want to be a little bit positive, because a little bit of positive is extremely intoxicating. Someone sees a little bit of positive is extremely intoxicating. Someone sees a little bit of positive, the next person will be a little bit more positive, and it just snowballs up from there. The next thing is, I lost my mom back in 2012, and she was my guiding light, and I just want to do it. I just want her to be proud of me, that's all.

Cindy Tunstall:

Well, I'm sure she is, Ben. I mean, I love your attitude and your approach. You've obviously faced some pretty significant challenges and you've been able to overcome those things you and I both share. You know you have an opportunity to be a positive influence wherever you are. So I really like that.

Cindy Tunstall:

And you know I started the Enjoy Life OTR Facebook group for the, you know, main reason is, you know, I wanted to be able to surround myself with other drivers who have a growth mindset and who are proactive about making and creating the life that they want, whether they're OTR and they're gone. You know the life that they want, whether they're OTR and they're gone, you know, a week or two weeks, three weeks or you know, really live in their truck and are making this lifestyle work. Cause I wanted to have an opportunity for drivers to connect with other people that were being intentional about the life that we want to leave, and really that's a driving force between my podcast as well. I want to be able to share, you know, honor drivers and share their stories, but also share things that you're doing that being intentional about making it work. So I really love the things that you shared.

Ben Grunenwald:

Well, thank you, I'm glad that you invited me on the podcast. I think this industry is a good industry. It's never going anywhere. Trucks are never going to leave the road. They might get a little bit better, they might get a little bit bigger, but they're never going anywhere, and so we're going to need qualified people to operate them and to network with each other so everyone stays safe, the country stays moving and our freight bywaysways and highways stay smooth.

Cindy Tunstall:

Talking about changes in the industry. What are your thoughts about the automation of trucks and things? And I know you're always going to have trucks on the road, but what about drivers? Do you have anything to share with our audience about that topic? What are your thoughts?

Ben Grunenwald:

As far as automatic drivers or just the technology the automated trucks, so driverless trucks, basically autonomous trucks.

Ben Grunenwald:

I honestly do not think that any of us are going to be around if that ever happens. There's there are way too many nuances and factors that come into play in this business. When it comes to operating a commercial vehicle off of a railroad, there's an ad that says that. Go back 10, 15 years ago, when drayage containers started being shipped out on railroads, drivers were worried that they were going to lose their jobs and my simple response was no, you're not, because trains don't have steering wheels. They go one direction or the opposite direction. That's it. And I don't think automated trucks are going to be a thing in our lifetime or maybe in the next lifetime. But what I do see happening is I do see electric trucks at some point. It may not be in 10 years, it may not be in 20 years, but I do see becoming a thing and I'm kind of on the bandwagon that I kind of I want to be there, watch it and I want to try and help the changeover because I think it's a good thing.

Ben Grunenwald:

But we're going to have to have the drivers that are going to take on that technology head head on and be okay with implementing it without without being snarky about it, because if it's going to catch on, we're going to have to have positive people behind that process. So that's going to involve younger people, younger drivers. Younger people are the ones that are bringing technology to the forefront of our industry. E-logs are a prime example, computers or not computers, but cameras in the trucks are a prime example. You wouldn't believe the amount of younger drivers that I have that have no problem having a camera in the truck. But you talk to the guys that are my age, they won't drive for us simply because of that reason. Technology is because it's not going anywhere, so we're going to have to adapt to it, but we're going to need younger people to help us yeah, the adaptability, I think.

Cindy Tunstall:

And you know my thing about the autonomous trucks. I live in Dallas, so from Dallas to Houston and Dallas to El Paso, which those are straight shots, right, so easy lane to drive, but there's already autonomous trucks driving those routes. I mean, they're on the road now Like I literally pass them. And I have a friend that works for a company that's doing autonomous trucks and she has told me that the beginning of the transition started there. They have cdl drivers that are driving the trucks and then the computers are actually, you know, because there's ai now, right, um, artificial intelligence and machine learning, so they have cdL drivers that were driving the trucks and they're actually teaching the machine, the computer, how a CDL driver responds and making improvements on their choices. And then I've even seen interviews with those drivers that do. You know, I have a friend that does it and I've also watched some interviews of drivers that work in that industry and CDL holders, and they've actually I've heard the drivers say that when it first started, when they had to let go of the control and let the machine, you know, because the driver was still in the truck, you know, able in the driving of the machine than he did his own driving, which actually freaked me out a little bit, blew my mind. But I think now that there's some trucks that are driving without a driver in the truck and it's all testing, you know, but it's not as far off as you know, everybody is saying, because I talk to drivers all the time and almost all drivers say you know, not in our lifetime, not in our lifetime. You know, I don't think that's going to happen, but I mean, it's already happening, it's just, and I don't know how far out.

Cindy Tunstall:

You know, and what I hear from drivers is well, the first time that there's a wreck, you know, with no driver in there, and my response always is well, there's truck drivers that wreck trucks that you know, harm families and do a lot of damage with a person driving. So it's not a, it's not an obstacle that's going to keep the technology from going forward, because human drivers, cdl holders, make mistakes and they fall asleep, or they were on their phone or they're not paying attention and they make errors that cost lives and do considerable property damage and you know lots of trauma involved with truck wrecks. Anytime, right. Anytime there's a big wreck that tracks, it's traumatic and it's significant loss, right.

Cindy Tunstall:

Anyway, I was just curious about what your thoughts were on that and I'm kind of like, you know I like driving a truck, so I kind of like to think that it's not going to happen either. But you know, I see them on the road and I see these trucks and there's cameras everywhere and you know, drivers were like what the heck? You know I'm like, well, that's what, autonomous trucking?

Ben Grunenwald:

It's machine learning and they're in their process of um anyway taking over, I guess. So that kind of goes into something that I read. Uh, maybe two weeks ago I was reading an article from I can't remember the source, it was rough somewhere on big them that that there is planned in take that freight, go and deliver it, bring it together back for the carrier to come and get at a later date, and that's all they're going to do. They're not going to go outside the city limits, but these trucks are going to have shorter wheelbases, they're going to have drivers that are more familiar with the area and it's actually going to be a money saver because you're not spending the over-the-road drivers.

Ben Grunenwald:

You know the over-the-road drivers don't get paid for driving in the city. They get paid mile to mile and that's it. And it's very hard to switch from an over-the-road driver, from getting paid mileage to getting paid hourly if they have to work in and around a metro area area. So I'm wondering if it isn't something that's feasible that you're going to have these automated trucks go from Metro Hub to Metro Hub and then have the live humans getting these little daycats and whatnot to pick up these dropped trailers delivered to the consignees and then bring the trailer back for an automated truck to come and get. It's a very, very science fiction, but it's very interesting to look and get. It's a very, very science, uh, science. I don't say it's fiction, but it's very interesting to look, to look and watch, because I can see that happening.

Cindy Tunstall:

Yeah, I think about that as next steps for automated trucks because, like you know, everybody says, well, yeah, houston to dallas, that's the easy lane. In dallas to el paso, straight shot, no mountains, you know, just easy driving, um. But when you start getting to hou traffic, that's a whole other thing. But I think that that's probably, I would say that the transition would happen is that there would be hubs like that and CDL holders would, you know, do local runs and of course there's always going to be places in different types of trucking that requires a driver and somebody to be available to handle issues with the load and stuff like that. So I think that those are always going to be driving jobs available and a need for CDL holders. But I do see that.

Cindy Tunstall:

I think it's important that we embrace the changes that are happening.

Cindy Tunstall:

We embrace the changes that are happening and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news by any means, because I like to think about optimism and, you know, think about the good things that are happening in the industry. But, like you, I want to embrace changes that are happening and be prepared and not be in denial about the changes that are happening, because those trucks are already on the road, so it's not as far off as we think. But I think it's important to start thinking about the future, and you know what our role is in the industry and you know it's an industry that I love and I've only been in the industry for a few years, so it's something that I really enjoy and I love the travel and I love just being on the road, I love being on the open road and I'm loving to see different parts of the country, but I also don't want to stay in denial about the future either. Right Well, before we wrap up, ben, do you have any other stories that you want to share with our audience?

Ben Grunenwald:

Oh, nothing I can think of right off hand. Like I said, nothing that's appropriate for a podcast. My favorite is truck drivers. There are some things out there that I would much rather forget, but yeah, we'll just leave it at that.

Cindy Tunstall:

Okay, that sounds good. Well, thanks for coming on the show. I really enjoyed getting to know you and I hope that you'll join me in the Enjoying Life OTR Facebook group. You're the kind of people that I love to hang around, so I'm really honored to get to share your story, and I'm grateful that you took the time.

Ben Grunenwald:

Hey, thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure to talk about our industry. I'd just like to say something to your audience. If you happen across someone who's discouraged by the industry, about what it's becoming and you have some time underneath your belt, remind them what it used to be like and that's not always roses. It's getting better. It's getting better by's getting better. It's getting better by the day. It's getting safer by the day.

Cindy Tunstall:

We actually have people that want to do it instead of feel like they're being forced to do it, and that's a good thing for this industry yeah, a lot of good things are happening and I think we have to it's a good point we have to be intentional to look for the positive changes and we have to have that bend instead of just being you keep that longing for the past and wish that things were and look at things with road colored glasses like they were better than they really were, but really focus on the good things that are happening. I think we have to be intentional. So I think that's a great word of wisdom and I appreciate you for sharing it.

Ben Grunenwald:

Thank you very much.

Dino Grigoriadis:

All right, folks, that's a wrap on today's episode. All right, folks, that's a wrap on today's episode. We covered a lot of ground, from e-logs and cameras and trucks to the future of autonomous vehicles and the importance of adapting to new technologies. Remember, change isn't always easy, but it's often necessary for progress. If you enjoyed this conversation and want to connect with other drivers, head on over to the Healthier Truckers and Enjoying Life OTR Facebook groups. It's a great place to share ideas and support each other on the road. As a CDL holder of 30 plus years, I would not be here if I didn't think this was of benefit to me. Well, if you found Valley in today's episode, why not share it with a fellow driver? Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on our next episode featuring Melinda Fox Wellington. She'll be sharing more strategies to inspire us to become healthier truckers and, lord knows, we need all the help we can get these days out here Enjoying life over the road a community that champions adventure, innovation and well-being.

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