The Philip Duff Show
Liquor, bars, cocktails: the people and companies who make them, sell them and drink them, plus everything & everyone in-between, with your host, globetrotting spirits guy and escaped bartender, Philip Duff.
The Philip Duff Show
#57 Agave Series 3 of 3: Sophie Decobecq, Agave Spirits Production Consultant & Founder, Calle 23 Tequila
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(In my voiceover I say this is episode 2 of 3 for the Agave Series, but we swapped it with last week's episode, to coordinate with the release of The Tequila Ambassador V.O. book, so this - episode 2 - is now coming out 3rd in the series.)
Sophie Decobecq is a force of nature: from Lille, France, she moved to South Africa to work on agave research after a university background playing rugby and studying biological engineering.
Having never had a cocktail, a chance encounter with Julio Bermejo (creator of the Tommy's Margarita) made her fall in love with tequila, cocktails, and Mexico, and she moved to Mexico in 1999.
Sophie runs a consultancy there helping agave distilleries optimise their fermenting, distilling and aging, and started creating her own tequila brand, Calle 23, in 2003.
We talked about her unusual route to being an agave spirits fanatic and expert distiller, how its hard to be a one-man band with a small brand, non-Mexican agave spirits and a lot more.
Enjoy!
Sophie on IG: https://www.instagram.com/sophiedecobecq/?hl=en
Sophie on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sophiedecobecq/about
Calle 23 on IG: https://www.instagram.com/agaveyoumyheart/?hl=en
Calle 23 on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Calle-23-Tequila-Drinkers/137330322947383?fref=ts
Calle 23 on XS/Twitter: https://twitter.com/Calle23tequila
Calle 23 website: https://www.tequilacalle23.com/
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And we're talking about the filter of show. The uh second in our three representative series focusing on a gallery. And we have none other than a famed world traveler, tequila dancer, tequila process, engineer, and brand owner. So if you come back here, the most important thing is it's like 5 p.m. in Halesco right now. Do you have a drink? Or like what's going on there? Yes, obviously.
SPEAKER_00Look, I took some uh good stuff with me. Oh, good. So if we speak for 23 hours, I'm ready for that.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well, we do like to go long. Uh 23 hours seems like a lot, but I actually have a little bit of Excelia tequila here. Very good, very good choice. Which is hard to find anymore uh in New York City. But there's actually some at the liquor store only four blocks from my apartment.
SPEAKER_00Very nice. So then I will make um cheers with you with a very special sample of single barrel, extra niho, six years old, that we just dumped from barrel last Friday.
SPEAKER_01Is this the stuff that was a Calvados barrel?
SPEAKER_00There's two different projects that we have dumped on a Friday. There was five barrels of extra niho, six years old, um, in ex uh Jack Daniel barrels, and these two beautiful uh ex-Calvados barrels from Christian Duran. And that's you know, they all smell amazing, to be honest. Well, we've been obviously testing them from time to time to make sure they were as wahoo as we wanted them to be, so it was their time to be damped, and um now their life will you know be still to rest in um uh you know before being uh butted and then yeah, shared with the world.
SPEAKER_01Well, uh Sante, as they say in your country, or cheers, as they say in mine.
SPEAKER_00And salute Mexico and thank you so much for this invitation.
SPEAKER_01The whole idea of this actually, Sophie, was that uh there's a new edition of the book, the tequila ambassador, coming out after 14 years. And in a very hilarious example of the world going full circle, a PR company in New York City reached out and asked if I'd interviewed Jesse Estates and Phil Bailey and Mitch Wilson for the book. And I had no idea that I know them or that I knew Tom Attas or that I know Carlos Camarena. And then I had the idea to do uh a couple of other podcasts in the field of a gathering. So along with you, I spent a long time talking to. Do you know Danielle Tataran, who lives in Zippolite on the coast? She's a Canadian lady. She used to work at Acre in Cabo San Lucas.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's places I would love to go more often, to be honest. And uh, you know, when you live in a country, it's when you do travel the less. So I think I've been uh towards that area of Mexico maybe 15 years ago. So I will need to do a visit, and if it's I do, I'm sure it's a great person to meet. So please tell me more.
SPEAKER_01No, no, she does the most amazing private bottlings of incredible mezcal and destalado to agave, sometimes as little as 40 uh liters. But everyone can listen to the other episode. This episode is about you. So Sophie, if you could explain in oh, one minute or less how you came to be uh a rugby-playing engineering student in France to studying agave as a plant in South Africa, and then now you are essentially a Mexican woman, you live there, family, kids, business, and your own brand. And a dog, a Mexican dog. Oh, there's a dog as well. That's more of a commitment than the kids.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Well, yeah, I found uh I found the hair in uh La Copia when I was with Don Javier, so 10 years ago, and uh from there, yes. So, yes, it's a big journey. So, how comes? Well, I would say sometimes, you know, I I love the word serendipity, I think it's uh we all have these like roads in our lives where if we have an opportunity, we take it, it brings us to uh yeah, to new passes that we would never have imagined before. So obviously, being French, I was not supposed to uh become, you know, uh well, a Mexican petilla producer, I can say it like this, or uh, as a dear friend called me, a frexican, like a French. That's brilliant. Yes, so yeah, and it's uh I I accept that uh that uh word. Um so it has been accepting maybe challenges. So as you mentioned, uh when I had my uh engineer diploma, I did accept that work in South Africa. So I was going to go in a city where there was no for other foreign people, so I was the only foreign person in a city of 80,000 people, 80,000 South African, 10 years only after apartheid. So it was yeah, a tough condition, but that said fantastic experience because I was then uh I had the hand free to experiment in fermentation, in distillation, and that has been a very starting point, a tipping point to it, because from there, uh another tipping point was to meet uh Julo Bermejo. He would never, you know, he's so humble, such an amazing person that he will never mention the you know all all the world that he's knowing and uh how he's recognized for tequila. And I he came at the distillery just saying that his parents have a Mexican restaurant in San Francisco, and then he's passionate about Agave. And if he could come to visit the distilleries, I was we've never received anyone, but of course, you come whenever you want, I'm here every day. And so we had an amazing um time together, and he would never still say more, you know. And just said, if you come to the US, just advise me. And in 2001, it comes that I uh was in San Francisco, and thanks to him, could discover the world of bartender, of cocktails, and more than anything, seeing an industry super like we were just doing, having a glass in our hands, smelling it, and you know, having like a field in mind, like an imagination opening. So either you drink it straight, uh you're sipping it and you're enjoying all the flavors, or as a bartender, you are going to create cocktails. And for me, it has been so amazing to see that because then it was like, okay, this is possible in this world to follow what you feel, what you taste, what you want to do, because there's really people that will um uh you know enjoy it, accept it. It's not only this business world that at that point maybe I was seeing, like only these big brands. Because remember, at that time there was no craft spirit, so I thought, you know, okay, the spirit industry is about big brands and big money players. And when I saw that, I you know, it was still not in my mind to do a brand, but it was just like, wow, there's passionate people around there. And when I came back then uh to Mexico, because some people were asking me about tequila, and in South Africa we were doing Agabe Spirit, so not uh the same denimation of origin. So as I loved Mexico because I did my uh research, I did work in a research center before finishing my studies, coming back a little bit before in time. So I knew Mexico, I knew the language, I loved the country. I went to visit a distillery by curiosity, I fell in love with the agave flavor. So obviously, when someone said, I would love you to do like some consultancy on tequila, it was like a yes. So I thought to go there for six months, and uh next week my company in Mexico returned 21 years. So you could see that my six months uh was well, not well, not a good uh maybe uh it was really approximately, you know. Um, so I came back to Mexico and worked into production, did some sample, did some experiments until some people from the industry tasted it and said, Sophie, you have to do a brain with that, it's beautiful. And as I never had since day one, my parents didn't give me one peso to start. I reinvested everything I earned in South Africa. Um, and I still don't have any partners or investors. Uh, partners I would have loved maybe during the time to have a business partner, but it didn't happen, and now I think it's too much stuff in the way, even maybe in the in the in the in the company. But an investor, so far I'm too scared to have someone only focus on business plan. So I so much love what I do that I can purchase the beautiful agave that I see, and if that even if they're you know the expensive because it's the top quality, I don't mind because I have that pleasure to process it. So this is how I came back in Mexico producing tequila and finally was doing that brand cave and trust. So sorry if that's more than one minute of the worst in summaries.
SPEAKER_01It's so much more than one minute. Like the the only person who could have spoken for longer is our mutual friend Jean-Sebastian Robicay. He would go for like half an hour. Um let's rewind a little bit, Sophie. Um engineering was your study. What kind of engineering? Was it chemical engineering?
SPEAKER_00So it's a biochemical, basically. So I it's uh exactly the degree I have is in biology, but uh it's a this it's um distillery was going to say an engineer school that um it's in France that has the same organization as uh as I've been told, like in the US, where we can choose like what we want to study. So we do ourselves our calendar, it has to fit, and we can choose what we want to do. And I was as I entered first, I wanted to do marine biology, I was passionate about oceanography. Uh I thought I would work on this Pierreline, this which is this beautiful algae that has a lot of protein, and and uh so I did two uh practice in research center in oceanography. Actually, I did a discovery in one of those, so I had the door open to do, you know. Uh uh yeah Jack Cousteau shit. Yeah, well, it's it was I I was very lucky to do that discovery. When you do a mistake, it's and you write it down and something weird happens, it's usually how you make a discovery, and this is what happens. I was curious to see how my micro algae would die. They didn't die, so it was like, oh, something's happening there. So it was fascinating. So that's why I didn't turn the engineer school saying I want to do that. And they say, We don't do that here. I was well, this is what I want to do. Is there a way? And they say, well, then you take different, you do a different uh uh ways and others. That's why I did choose biology, I did choose chemistry, I did choose medical uh images engineering in order to study the maps of all where's the algorithmable app. So that I had the chance to have that, it's an amazing uh school, and uh that I could yeah, I could really do many different um uh topics, see different topics that said, and then a lot of things is by practice. So also when I was in South Africa, there were two bosses, one French, one South African, and they sent me to uh see the brandy production in France and to learn with uh you know brandy producers, and one of them in distillation was like uh mentor to me because he was Sophie, drop your notebook and just smell, feel, and you know, this is how uh process is working and distillation also is working, or anything is working, it's not only about numbers, so always trust your feelings. And uh, we were calling him the wise man, and he's really someone I often think of him, and I really deeply thank him for that. To not only you know do a distillation and check temperature degrees, blah blah blah, uh proof. You know, it's more than this.
SPEAKER_01So uh let's zoom back a little bit more. Where did you grow up in France?
SPEAKER_00I did grow in north of France, uh, in a little town called Tour Point, and the houses in front of my parents' house, or where we were where I did grow until I was until I went to the engineer school, uh, were in Belgium. So it was exactly at the border, the last house of France, and the other side of the road was Belgium.
SPEAKER_01Amazing.
SPEAKER_00That was to me, it was the most normal thing, you know. I didn't even realize until maybe you know, 10 years ago that it was you know, like uh something weird. So when I was young, the closest bakery was in Belgium, and I was going by myself with my little money uh thing with the Belgian money, because at that time euro was not existing.
SPEAKER_01And you know, so it was I mean I hate I hate to bring it up. We're talking about agave, but you grew up in the Geneva distilling area of France, where you can still legally make Geneva and they make some very beautiful ones there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, at that time I would say that we've never seen it, was not maybe the common things, it became it came after it was really beers, and so I did grow up uh you know, well, whenever it was a time that I could enjoy the bitterness of beer, because I remember that being 15 years old, my uncle made me taste, and I was like, ah, hate it. I was loving when I was young, you know, the wine to I was allowed to put a little finger in uh, you know, and um tasting because my grandparents were living in uh Bergerac, so with amazing wine surround. Um, or we had this fermented, you know, uh grape tooth. So there was a lot of all this flavor when I was traveling, but for north of France, is yeah, it was mainly beers, uh Belgian beers, which are beautiful, it's still my preference today. So, but I yeah, the the smell of all of this has been something that uh my parents thought I had a trouble, uh a trouble when I was young. I have that habit to smell uh the top, you know, the top of my hands, because we have little hairs on it and it grab smells of what you know what you touch. If you do gardening and you smell that part of your hand after that, you know, if you've been touching geraniums, which have very particular smell, yeah. Or uh tomatoes, tomatoes leave. We don't eat them, but it's so lovely to smell. So yeah, I I I was always like smelling it, like it smells to me is one of my prefer, it is my preferred sense. Well, I don't know what it is to no, I would not say that. I think being blind must be very difficult. So I've never, yeah. Maybe I prefer to not be able to, yeah. I don't know, smells are beautiful, so it's yeah, I think it's complicated. I think we everything is necessary, but what I mean is smells are amazing.
SPEAKER_01Wait, we can all agree that smells are amazing, but we're trying to track your journey to a gave, and it really started in in college, university. So, where did you go in university?
SPEAKER_00So I first did two years after my uh bachelor's to um uh it was their uh a biology um uh diploma, and I entered uh the engineer courses uh like uh like a shortcut. I didn't have to do the five years in that engineer school because I was uh I had a good uh um you know uh recommendation and good marks, let's say, to be able to enter directly to the third year, third year in engineer school. So at that point, still nothing of Agave, was only in north of France.
SPEAKER_01But where where did you study? You went from the north of France, the north is very different to Paris, is very different to the south. So you went from there to where?
SPEAKER_00Compaigne, which is uh in Oise, it's 80 kilometers north of Paris.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay, so you're close to the center, and then you went to South Africa. Um, many people don't know.
SPEAKER_00Before that, I did before South Africa, I did finish my uh engineer school studies. I needed to have a six-month uh work, real final work somewhere in a company or in a research center to validate the diploma. And this is when I did go to Mexico City. Um, so I did discover Mexico in '98 as a visit to the country to visit France. And I really love the country, but I could only say, you know, buenos dias, buenas noches, and gracias at that point. Um, and then I took as a third language Spanish uh in my engineer school, because I did English, German, and then it was uh Spanish to have the basics. And then when I to end my engineer school, then I chose to do that uh training period in a research center in Mexico City, in the polytechnic school of Mexico City, in uh yeast and lactic bacteria. So white coat, uh sterile condition, not as fun as you know, uh atmosphere, or you know, um uh even you know, yeah, it's um it's really like in a closed laboratory, um, but it's fascinating also. It's you know, experimenting, you have an idea, and you have to prove, you know, if it's uh not if it's wrong, if it doesn't work, or if it works, then it opens to you new doors about how to continue to experiment. Because research, you know what is not correct, you have a feeling of what is correct, but it's only an idea, and you have then to make sure what you understood it is is really what it is, and it's a never-ending process. It's fascinating about research.
SPEAKER_01Science is a process of investigation, but returning to South Africa. Um, many people might not know that huge amounts of agave were grown in South Africa, and there have been attempts going back 20 years to make agave spirits. They have now new life in these attempts. There's I I have a nice South African spirit in my cupboard right now. And it was probably unthinkable uh when you were there. So I want to talk about how you came to uh Mexico, founded your business, started Kyive anti-threats. But what do you think of the agave spirits coming out of uh South Africa now? And indeed, agave spirits from other places. I've got a nice one in my cupboard as well, which is from Goa in India.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and there's some now from uh I know that's a project in Australia, uh where I was invited to join. But the thing is that already in Mexico it's complicated to do everything. I already have like five, six hours sleep and not even finishing my list, you know. So going into a new project, I'm really like, oh it's I would love, but it's for maybe another life, or let's see. Uh but yeah, there's from South Africa, yeah, South Africa, Australia, uh in South US also. Uh yes, so Mexico is the country that has the largest uh variable amount of variety of agave in the world. It's uh around 200 species. So obviously, we have this amazing uh agave portfolio, I would say, from Mexico, with uh Bacanora, Sotol, Recia, Tusca, and obviously mezcal, tequila. And so you have all these in some pueblos, in some villages, they had a name that always used, and now they're maybe trying. They're trying to register it as a denomination of origin. And I would say, like, for example, when I arrived in South Africa in uh 2000, uh, there was a gave there for a hundred years already. So some people brought agave there to because lens are like you never see how it's finished, you know, it's uh you can see all around you it's it's one person lens, so they have a lot of fields, and it was uh someone brought it saying, Well, when there's a disease, for example, with food for cattle, agave is very resistant, and you can give it to ostriches, or so that's why these fields were there not taken care of. And in 2000, it's when uh there was a shortage in agave in Mexico. So that has been like uh all over the world, people knew about it, and someone saw these agaves from South Africa and said, Hey, these are agaves, why don't we do something with it? So, to come back to your question, I think that if there's native agaves that can that are great, that have the uh in the sugar content to be able to produce an agave spirit, obviously, you know, it's not a patented thing that it can only be done in Mexico. So I think it's great, and each of them should be renowned for its specificity, you know, and its terroir, its way of producing, and uh and make it a unique spirit. So I am totally thumb up to that.
SPEAKER_01So going from uh where you grew up, where you went to college, uh meeting Julio Bermejo, perhaps the most disorganized man in the world, uh, and then visiting him, but was and the and the biggest heart to and the best to connect people, I would say.
SPEAKER_00So maybe is this organization that uh he admits himself also make him so uh you know connected to what is important, to you know everything it doesn't have so much, you know, sense that having someone in front of you creating a connection and oh do you know that person and that person?
SPEAKER_01So yeah, we Julio is great at that, but let's admit, by his own admission, he's a mess. Um, but when you went to visit him in San Francisco at Tommy's Mexican restaurant in Richmond, San Francisco, amazing place. Um was this your first experience of a place that made cocktails? Yes, right. So you came in at the top, you had Julio Bermejo, I think, who make you maybe your first fucking margarita. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I even had the chance that who came for me at the airport because Julio was uh very busy at Tommy's, is his father, Thomas. So the you know, so I went out via the arrival of San Francisco, my first time in the US, and this amazing man opened his arm and said, Sophie, welcome to America, with a beautiful America, you know. Yes, Thomas Barmejo, so that's why the name Thomas is coming from. And yes, so it was um my first cocktail, and today, and I think it's because it's the most delicious cocktail, not only because it was my first one, but today I still really uh the the cocktail you know, you ask me the last cocktail I want to drink before I pass away will be a Tommy's. Really, I love it, and so because in um France at that time or in South Africa, it was not a cocktail uh culture at all.
SPEAKER_01No, not at all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not at all.
SPEAKER_01I mean about it, yes. However, I want people to understand who you are. You are a uh a qualified scientist, an entrepreneur, and you moved to Mexico. And did you already have a contract to be a consultant? Did you move there and set up your company? How did it exactly happen?
SPEAKER_00I arrived because I met um when I was in the US, I in 2001, I met some people, you know, blah blah blah, and I explained what I was doing in uh South Africa. Then they knew that because when we spoke about Mexico, they knew I was uh knowing the country and the language because I worked in that reduct center before. And uh when I was in um in uh South Africa, I received also uh you know uh a call saying how we would really want you to help us. Uh you know, in the production, there's a difference in consistency, and uh it's not easy for us to understand why, etc. Well, can you help us? And first I said, Well, you know, it was I I I still have this, uh I was loving what I was doing in South Africa, so I first said no. Uh, but then after a year and a half, being again alone in South Africa, and you know, it's uh I made South African friends, but it's um uh I yeah, I think I I'm a very sociable person, and at one point I like to meet different kinds of people and being in a city in the desolation valley, that's the name of the valley I was living in. Uh so it's in a big scale between Johannesburg and Cape Town, so really in the middle of the nowhere, in uh the Caroo. Um, well, yeah, I thought I will not be able to live more time, you know, uh in that small city, even if I'm so thankful for the people there to have welcomed me, making me feel you know as home as possible. So it was an amazing experience, but a year and a half was great. So after when the thing at the distillery were great, then it was like, okay. Um, and also in the distillery, to be honest with you, there was not a vision, there was not a vision that we could produce something unique. It was more let's make what a market is expecting as an agave spirit, and at that time, so it was obviously tequila. So the aim was to make that agave, South African agave spirit uh be as similar in a process or you know, as tequila. And I was saying, no, we should, you know, in the US, I could see bartenders smelling and you know, enjoying what they have in their glass. So even if it's you know very different, I think we should go that way, and you know, not try to uh like uh shorten up our uh the taste of what we were doing to make it maybe less tasty, so closer to tequila. So that's something that yeah, at one point I was not maybe also feeling, you know, it was not as appealing as it was before. So then I said, yes, I loved Mexico, and again, let's go back there for six months and uh and work on that project. And working there, then there was another opportunity who did open. And uh at one point, one of the distilleries could not export, and uh, because there was a trouble with the paperwork, the declaration, the annual declaration, etc. And then I was, you know, like uh we are used like in the engineer school. Okay, problem solution. What do we need to make an exportation? Okay, this company cannot do it. What is the cost of doing another company? Okay, let's do it. So I really did the company, not with a business thoughts. Uh, my father is a teacher, my mom a nurse. Well, they are retired now, but we they know they knew how much they will earn at the end of their life. So we don't, I have nobody in my family doing business. I didn't know what was at that time, you know, just resolving problems. So I did the company almost 21 years ago just to resolve a problem. And then I was like doing this experiment on a side because of what I was doing in South Africa, playing with yeast. I was doing it also in Mexico, doing samples, and it's when you know people from the industry said, and it's what I was seeing at the beginning, you know, you should do something with that.
SPEAKER_01What I think many people who have heard of you and they've heard of Kyiv Anti-Threat, they don't know that you know you have a day job. And your company, I mean, the last time I talked to you about this, I think you had four staff. Tell me about the company now, what it is, and what you do.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so it's still a very uh small and very efficient company because again, uh funds are very limited. Everything we earn is well, since day one, everything we earn is reinvested. And I'm you know, I have a very simple car. I travel in the economy, even when I was pregnant seven months and a half. I would I did travel in the economy uh over the Atlantic, so 11 hours seated. Maybe that was not the best idea, but uh I really want to spend the money in what for me is my passion, so being able to produce, you know. Um, so we are we are uh uh six people, six persons um in the company, including me, full-time, and then um we have uh someone for you know 10 hours per uh week for social media, uh, not more because um uh yeah, maybe that sounds weird to say that, but uh I would love to develop more like a human way of communicating rather than social media. So I try to be honest with myself, and if I do believe that, I need to apply it to my company, not putting all the communication in social media, just what is needed, but then to try to do other ways, uh like planning a trip in Mexico where we do share, well, I do share the Mexico I love with my team, and um and yeah, it's creating something different. Um, so the companies, yes, one person is taking care of logistics, one person approachated and follow up with providers, uh, one person in finances, one person. Uh there's two people half-time that are uh in production. I have the manager not to cover that because when I'm at the distillery, I I don't check emails or phone, and she's fantastic to follow up on you know topics. We just have a fantastic person that many many people from the industry know, John-Frank Cospader, uh joining the company to uh help me, you know, having and to be better than me, to uh connect with markets and explain what is the brand, um, because communication uh and uh contact with distributor is the last thing, unfortunately, in the list. Because first you need the production to be done, then you need the company to run, and then you can um be more in touch, right? So yeah, and and then an external accountant, um and that's it.
SPEAKER_01But this is all about your tequila brands, uh Caesave anti-trez. But I was actually asking about like your consultancy company where you help you know distilleries to be better, right? That was yeah, that was the first thing when you came to Mexico, and it builds on your background. Um, a lot of people will go to you know big events, Tales of the Cocktails, they might see you, maybe a little less now than recently, and they have great fun with Sophie and have shots and dancing. I saw you for one second at Barcon Vent Berlin, um but the day job is actually helping distilleries in Mexico solve their problems, yes.
SPEAKER_00That was the starting point, but since uh that was a very uh starting point because when uh I could be able to produce when you know uh the uh K93 was ready two years after I did the company, so in 2005, K93 was born, so 18 years ago, it's gonna turn 19 soon. Um yeah, and um from that time it was the uh the main focus, and the two other projects, but that was not then consultancy, it was more like co, I would say co-working, also. I don't know how to say that. Um, I when I had the brand ready, well, there was two other projects with Ocho and Excelia. Um so when I did the um uh when Cave interest was ready, I met Thomas Estes in a tour. Actually, came with uh Julio and with other people, so I could meet all of these fantastic people. And um Thomas heard about Kayeth and he said, Oh, I would like to do an interview uh of you. So we set an appointment in with Rachara, and uh so okay, so I took the bottle out of my bag to make a tasting and speak to him about it, about the brand. And when he saw the bottle, he was like, Wow, like it's amazing! And he took out of his bag a paper, a drawing from a designer who designed the first ideas of Ocho, and he because he was surprised because it was two numbers. Ocho also had some red color and uh you know, and uh like a more modern design. So it was so funny, and that's why from day one we called ourselves Kaye Ochcio, brothers and sisters, brother and sister, and uh it has been like uh yeah, a beautiful uh, and still, you know, it's still very close to me. Um, a beautiful, uh, yeah, uh beautiful I have a friendship. Tequila is he has been a mentor about uh you know the way to about life, about connection to people, also, but uh well, he's he's a mentor to so many people, but yeah, I could speak for hours about him. Um, but yes, it so a lot of people after thought, well, first, yeah, so I did the interview. We did the interview of me, and then I said, Well, anything you need from me, let me know. Um, oh yeah, yeah, it should be all right. So then I was about to launch CAI and I received this phone call saying, Oh, yeah, in reality, yeah, we need some help because uh it's difficult to find you know, bottles, and uh, I don't know what to choose. And uh uh, but Thomas, now I'm ready to launch. I don't have the time I had six months ago.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And it was like, oh, okay, okay, I understand. And then we hang up well and then I was now well, it's not possible to do that to Thomas, you know, it's such a you know. So after a few days, I called him back and say, you know what? I thought about it, then let's do it. I can make a pause on launching CADE because I cannot do two things at the same time as well. Let's make let's make uh oddshow starting, and then I can launch Kali. And so this is what happened. So many people then said, ah uh, you know, for example, CAI did copy auto because the design is the same, the bottle is the same, but well, it we know both me, well uh you know, our auto family and me that it was not the case, but you know, I let people speak. At the end, you'd you waste energy. The important is to feel straight with yourself. Always, you know, I do believe a lot in if you do things great, things great will happen to you.
SPEAKER_01That's uh so that's well there's a saying there's a saying in English, uh Sophie, no good deed goes unpunished. You generally don't understand that until you're 19.
SPEAKER_00No, exactly my face until you're 30.
SPEAKER_01But with Ocho, um, did you help out with the liquid?
SPEAKER_00So the liquid uh has always been produced by Carlos Camarena, and um I was then spending at that you know for years, maybe at least one day or two days per week in Arandas, and it was basically organizing all the you know filling of barrels and also you know uh all the organization of uh you know the dry goods, the delivery, the bottling, checking uh uh the profile, uh, you know, uh because I you know, I was trying not to say too much, but too much was okay how it is, you know. I was like, delicious, I'm sending you the sample now. So it was so so quite. So it was more like I would say on that side, it was not so much about liquid, it was more like making that uh all the coordination and making from um the production of blanco, then the all the bottles available in every kind of category around the world with all the different labels matching the computer. Yeah, so organizing all of that with L sec sheets and all the inventory, so and I love to be honest, I love to organize things like this. So it was yes, that has been a lot of work as the worst project to coordinate, to be honest. But once it was rolling well, then it's you know it's magical. So let's talk, you know, yeah, let's talk about um and then sorry, and then some some ideas then was great, like keeping a library of uh show or the 888 actually was an idea I said to Thomas, we have to do that. Um, you know, the Odio years, etc. So that things you know, we were then playing with concept because playing with Ocho concept was great. So it was uh, but yeah, the the main minds there are Thomas Estes and Carlos Camarena. They are the fathers of Ocho. No doubt at all about that.
SPEAKER_01Well, the new boss bitch is actually Mrs. Duff. I don't know if you know, but my wife Elaine is now the advocacy director for Samsung and Surrey. So she is in charge of uh the 10, 12 ambassadors for Ojo all around the world. Uh and she she's a boss.
SPEAKER_00That's why we see Ojo blooming even better than before, you know. So I think we have to do it.
SPEAKER_01I think so. But let's talk, let's talk about um the second worst decision of your life. The first worst decision was coming on this podcast, but the second worst one of course was starting your own brand. Right. Um you come from an engineering background. Um I went to university with a lot of engineers. Engineers are very straightforward people. There's a whole let us build it. Right, there's uh a river, let's build a bridge. Uh they don't have it if anybody wants a bridge. So how you have any threads, is it's compare your product? Um tell me about how you started it and grew it and where you are now. Because the gala now is not the same as even five years ago, let alone 20.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Um my first wish, as I thought first it would be for friends and family, was obviously to do the best juice as possible. Uh you know, and high clothes I could give any bottle to family friends or the Pope or anybody that would uh be in front of the Pope, the Pope is well known for his tequila preferences, yes. Well, at that time, I don't know, you know, no, no, but uh when when I started, I don't remember it was, or you know, the dilady dumb, I don't think it was tequila, but that's you know, anyway. Uh so it was producing, yes, uh, and uh expressing uh the character of Agave from the Highlands, because starting from you know from the beginning, I could it was difficult because I had to build brick by bri from the beginning. So nobody before I started it, so I had to start from scratch. But the great thing was to be able to then build that the way you know I was feeling I would love to do, not because it would be the best. I'm not saying that Highland is better than Valley or from other states or from other spirits, uh, but it's you know very personal um uh preferences. So I was loving this Agave from the Highland. With you know footy notes and citrusy notes, so it was really putting that in a bottle, and that's why I put an agave, and I love the red colors, it was a red agave on the bottle to express that it's yeah, this agave and Mexico encapsulate in a bottle. And I wanted to make it affordable. That's why from day one, because when you start a brand, you have a liquid and you can decide is it going to be, you know, uh in an easy going packaging using line bottle. So you uh basically what you say is a liquid inside the bottle, or you are going with a fancier bottle and you can make much more margin, you know, so it makes your life easier. But for whom you want to produce that? So it's a question I had to ask to myself at the first time, you know, because you know the liquid, you know your liquid, but then the dress around it, you can choose a you know, very daily dress uh or a night, uh beautiful sparkling dress, but it's still the same person inside. So, and my decision has been for the daily dress, because again, I was okay, I'm living far away from my family, from friends. I when I arrived in Guadalajara, I knew zero person. So to find an apartment, it was like, oops, uh, took the map and it was like, oh, you know, where shall I go? Um, so I asked a friend from Mexico City to give me, to find someone that they would know and could advise me, but it was really I arrived with nobody. Uh new nobody. So being away it was not easy. Uh in the first 10 years, I think I was about to drop the project, I don't know, 30 times, 40, 50 times, you know, crying, like big troubles, and like it's impossible, or being told I was a woman that couldn't do it, or you know, having lack of money to go ahead, or troubles that you have to carry on your own. Well, any entrepreneurs have that. Obviously, I'm not the only one, and I'm not special for that at all. Uh, but yes, not being in your country was sometimes I was here on Sunday working and thinking, what I'm doing in front of your computer. You know, I'm you know, 20. I started the company the day after my 26th birthday. So after that, I was at my 30th birthday, for example, being alone on a Sunday, you know, and you're like, What are you doing of your life? You know, come on, go out. And um, but yeah, I don't know what which bees have been inviting me to to still follow it, or maybe I'm too stubborn, I don't know, maybe. Uh, but yes, so the day to come back to the brand, it was a decision of putting it so in a casual dress, and uh and still what I love to do with uh the original range is to be able to share the best possible product being affordable, so in a bottle that I love, but you know that I don't have to pay mold or I don't have to pay super expensive because to me the most important is the liquid. And where do I see now where um I want to, you know, to the passes we want to walk on, it's super uh it's amazing and very it's passionating to um walk these new fields. So with the criollo, we've been experiencing that. So Kimetitres Criollo is a tequila using obviously blue agave, we can only use blue agave for tequila, but using that blue agave save or called criollo, which is um uh where even very mature, the plant will not grow bigger, and nobody before has only used that one to produce a tequila, so it was something new. When doing it, I was not knowing at all what it will give. Once it went out of the sea, it was like wow, it was amazing. So I even did harvest you know the rest of the field because it was fantastic, and from there it has been really like uh uh a new uh oxygen refill to follow, because um to follow, you know this, you know, you could say after 21 years you may be bored, but with all these new projects, obviously it's impossible to be bored. Uh, we've just done the actually the 20-year anniversary of the company in 2023, and uh obviously 2023 with a number was a special year, and so for this one, for example, we have done uh three different tequila from three different areas from three different terroirs, so highland as usual, lowland, and from Guanajuato State, and then blend them in different percentages, so finding the right balance between them so they would get you know, complement each other and having a unique uh liquid. And for this, when I thought, okay, what I want for the anniversary is to thank bartenders. Because without bartenders, CADE would not exist at all. We've never invested money in a marketing campaign or in a PR. We could never pay a plane ticket to a bartender, unfortunately, because we don't have that money. And that said, we are still in the best trending brands voted for from bartenders. So for me, it's like, wow, you know, we couldn't give them more, and they still, you know, love us so much. For me, it's like the best gift ever. So that's why that special techila that cost us more to produce, to do, and everything. It has the same price as our original Blanco. And we did hide two bottles of this in our original Blanco case. Because I wanted to make sure that we really go in the hands of bartenders and not only in a liquor store shelf, and everywhere they can get it, they get it. So I'm asking my distributor to first sell these cases to the same price. So it's not, you know, the bar can get it the same price, and have these two special gift bottles. Well, the gift is the extra price that we spent, but they don't have to spend themselves and have it. So it was an idea, you know, that I have looking in the field, like how to make it happen, you know, to from Mexico to give it to any bartenders in the world. So the ideas like this, um it's what made me wake up super happy every morning. Uh, we just did also a four-liter jars, so using less glass. So uh uh one of the jars of four liters equals to almost six bottles. So one case of 70cl can be replaced by one bottle of recycled glass glass, you know. So ideas like this uh is what's yeah, is my yeah, I'm I said it already, I'm not going to repeat it. It's like I'm it's that's for me, and I think it's the future also of the tequila industry to continue to experiment. And many brands are doing it, and that's super great, super cool, because uh it's great for the full industry of tequila and for the consumer most of all.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think people are experimenting and celebrities are doing stupid things just because the Gave spirits are really popular. Like you don't hear about celebrities doing stupid things with Dutch Geneva because the category, you know, essentially is not growing. I always say I feel like I'm with my incredibly amazing Geneva, I'm selling 100% blue agave tequila in 1982 and no one's interested. Right? That's that that's where we are. But what you can have to wait for some years and it will come there. Hey, I'm the Carlos I'm the Carlos fucking camarader of 100% Geneva. But to go back to where you are, but to come back to where you are, um Sophie, there's many brands out there. There's a lot of money out there pushing it. Um there are other good brands. Your pricing is very good, but how do you support this community that loves uh Khalif anti-trends? Do you go and visit them? Do you go to bar shows? Like how have things you know, how how do you support them?
SPEAKER_00Yes, so I do go to um bar shows, not not all of them, because time is missing, uh, even if I would love. So um it's a great opportunity to see distributors and bartenders uh not having to travel so much. I have this um uh I'm very concerned about environment. Uh it's something also very personal. I'm not judging anyone, obviously, and I'm taking planes obviously to travel. I do as much as I can bus and train, but sometimes it's not possible. Um, so I did as I did travel also, you know, uh for my work, you know, uh for the past 20 years. I really feel I need to leave opportunity to other people, to young people to travel more. So I'm I decided before um COVID to travel less, and I did advise uh from social media that I will not travel so much. So at that point, people say, Yeah, you're crazy, it will never work, and you cannot work remotely. For that, COVID for me was a blessing because when I was offering to have uh you know virtual meetings to distributors, they were like, No, you better come. And so for me it's fantastic because now I can do it because I do think that for meetings, you know, uh yeah, uh virtual meetings are not the same, but it can avoid many travel. And when I can, I try to visit uh well, I put in my calendar uh to visit uh you know markets, and I love it. For me, it's not work, it's sharing what I love. I love to, I want it to be also my first dream dreamt job was to be a biological teacher, a teacher of biology. So I love to share the you know humbly what I know, what I've been uh explained, what I could experiment. So that this is what I love. Um so last month I could go to Belgium, for example, and it was fantastic. And I love to speak about Tequila in general or Agabe Spirit in general, and that just say what is particular of Caille. But I love to speak about the category that's uh in Mexico and what what we do here. Um yeah, so it's um yeah, I think I forgot maybe the original question, sorry.
SPEAKER_01Um yes, but even before you started in Agave, it is on a global boom such as never been seen before. And tequila used to be cool, as I repeat in these episodes, there are a whole group of people coming up, they don't live in Brooklyn, they live in Bushwick in Brooklyn. They're 25 years old and they've never tasted tequila. Their first agave was mezcal. So do you think that that opens the door? Mezcal is clearly now established, but for the other ones, the Riceum, Bacchanoran, Parks, and you know, Sotal, even though Sotal is not an agave.
SPEAKER_00Totally. I think there's beautiful bridges between uh the different categories at the beginning. You know, when uh well at the beginning, at the beginning of yes, the mescal uh bloom, uh people tend to put like tequila and mescal as you know the cousins that don't like each other, and like uh uh you know, uh how do you say greedy or jealous? I would say, like jealousy, uh between or saying, yeah, but you know, he's driving a big car, he's a so it was the same. So Mescal uh would say from tequila, yeah, it's very industrial, etc. And from tequila, it was well, they don't get what we do, is there's a passion behind also, and why they would criticize. So uh, and then uh it was great to see that the um it was to realize better we are on the same boat, we are all in a boat of beautiful Agabi spirit, and that's why I would also include you know, the other one from the other country, as you said. Uh it's different, but it's different. It's another no, let's let's say that in another word, it's another boat or different boats, but like would um help each other to to cross uh an unknown you know ocean, or you know, uh to help each other if there's a need, and um, and it's what uh we do when I start uh you know masterclasses. I always mention about the other kind of agave spirit because I think it's good for everyone. And now, thanks to you, I may add the word. So different countries also making agave spirit. Now let's come to Mexico and let's see different agave spirits inside, and let's go down then to tequila when I have to speak about tequila. So I really think it's bridges, and I could hear also people who started with tequila and then said, Well, no, mescal then is the best. And now they're like, Okay, I it's good, but I came back to tequila also, and now I love both. Because there are days I want to sip a mescal and get all these beautiful notes of different agave and the smokiness and all the complexity of mescale, and some days I really love to have the straightforward agave and the the terroir from the agave for my glass, and I think it's great like this. So it's yeah, um mood, decision, and uh and uh yeah, not um judging uh what other people are drinking, or just yeah, oh that's interesting. You're testing that, and not wow, why do you only drink that?
SPEAKER_01Or you know, well, I spoke to my friend Danny, uh who you know buys and bottles these incredible mezcals under her brand Go to Gorda. And uh living in the US is the best, it's the best place in the world to live outside Mexico because we are getting top-notch great quality mezcal at very reasonable prices, right? The initial medical industry in America and everywhere else was it was the worst medical, right? We can agree that. And then Ron Cooper started bottling and selling these incredible medicals, but they were all 120, 150, 200 a bottle. Everyone loved them, but nobody could use them. And then the Omega Vita came out, uh, a good quality but yet blended essentially medical. Now, if I walk two blocks into my liquor store and goes wine, like it's an avenue, um, I can get the materials Dobi Edge, which is a great medical for $36. So does that reflect all the work and labor of the people behind it? Does Del McGay reflect that? Well, that's a question. So when I ask Danny her med canals are $80 a bottle and all, and she's like, well, look, this is a luxury product. We have to reflect it. On the other hand, the people who produce this, the mescaleros, the tequila producers, they're participating in capitalism. You put your product out there, people pay for it, etc. So what, if I may, do you think, uh, Sophie, we should pay for a nice bottle of blanco tequila in New York City, or indeed a nice bottle of uh of medical, or should we just let the market decide, which is the current situation?
SPEAKER_00Um so what do you mean by buying a uh you mean like the look of the button? No, no.
SPEAKER_01Um spirit should reflect the cost of all the ingredients that go into it. And if you buy tequila or medical or baconora or total, the cost is actually really low because it's rural Mexico, and you know, these people are earning very little, and they're putting it out in the market and it's being bought. Nobody is making amazing margins. The brand owner, as you know, uh the importer, the distributor, everybody just makes the standard 30%. But should we pay more for Mezcal or tequila, or do we just let the market decide?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, and when you say about the cost, I do agree with uh living. And uh uh what I could say also is that uh when you live in Mexico, sometimes you don't realize um well, you charge basically or you put your cost for your living here. Um even if uh your living condition should be better. Uh I'm speaking more than anything, for example, for yeah, some mescal producers that don't have health uh insurance, and they should be the one to uh, you know, if people enjoy drinking the deserts amazing mezcal, making sure that if something happens to them, they can actually have uh proper operation and not being told, well, let's see how it goes. Um, because it's too expensive to do because here we have the IMS, uh well, for when you are uh it's a national you know healthcare, and basically you have to wait until you can be taken care of if there's an operation, or someone else has to pay for you. You know, I have many friends who had to sold to sell a car or even a house to pay for their uncle operation who didn't have health insurance. So this is a reality, and in Mexico, this is a deep reality. So that is a very good topic you're raising, uh, about making sure that yes, uh, you will treat someone the producer. Well, the producer could have the the conditions that you would want for your network in another country or to a friend. Um, and um and then for uh and then it is a fact that distributors earn more than what we do as producer. So this is it, you know. This is how uh this is how the system works, and um it is then well, but again, it's everyone's choice. Uh you know, I could decide to change the packaging and then uh put double price, you know. Uh you know, maybe get out of the market for a couple of years and then come back. Um, so actually, well, the great thing is that special edition is uh helping to continue to live because uh during COVID, well, the company was about to stop. Um, and it's still very difficult to be in this market with a competition, as you mentioned, with a competition, with uh when we had this such high prices of agave. Uh two years ago, it was well, it was a bunch of money in each uh truck of agave, uh you know, $30,000 per truck, so you have to wow, so it's a weight, you know, to produce it well, and uh you know, like uh big stress, big stress. Um, you know, um so having special edition, for example, in in uh in our cases, uh being able to spend more money in packaging, also and have that pleasure to work with recycled glass, handmade bottle, uh working with uh women that are uh sole mother and can produce uh algae, uh algae paper or corn paper, blah blah blah. So that is my pleasure to also give. More to people around, thanks to the special edition. But to come back, so to come back to your question, I think it's a choice of a production in the markets. I don't know if at one point the market could say, oh, we want to pay more the brand because we know that the producer doesn't have health insurance. It's complicated, you know. Or um what I think is important. That's um convinced about that, and I I hope it goes uh it answers to your uh to the question you raised, is trust your palate and do blind testing. If you do believe a brand is great and you like it, and it's uh $45 uh tequila compared to the 90 or $100 tequila you usually drink, or $150 or $200 because it has this beautiful night dress, these can be amazing. I'm not saying they're not good, not at all. Uh but it's not because the tequila would cost less, as you mentioned, uh, that the juice is less good. So it's great to pour and to have below your glass a number, or uh uh you know, you can put stars, flowers, drawings, or whatever you want, or letters, but mix the glasses and do your own testing, and you may have a different answer from the person sitting next to you, and you don't have a wrong answer. Because if your favorite uh tequila is the lowest price, it's not because you didn't do great your testing, it's because this is a just you like, and uh yeah, so I would say that the market should to me should focus more about what is inside the bottle and give more power to producers who would then uh try to push the category in the senses rather than marketing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I asked the same question to Julio Bromeo when he was on this podcast, and there is a kind of a not nice attitude you see sometimes with um younger people, large agents in the US, the UK, and they're like, Oh I drink this Mezcal, I support T O Javier, you know, or I support this brand, they built a school. And Julio said, look, you don't need to do any of that, that white behavior, like, oh, the white people are here to help you. His thing was buy distillery-owned brands. The money flows back in the community, and he told a story which showed me um a well-known medical, well, not that well-known, medical producer. Uh, he made a medical for an American person who came to Mexico to visit them. And this medical producer said, Hey, could you order some more cases? I need to um make a bit of money. And the guy's like, sure, are you okay? And the guy said, Well, it's it's okay, but my wife is in the hospital, you know, and I have to pay some bills. And the producer found out the bill that had to be paid was a hundred US dollars. And this guy's medical per bottle for over a hundred dollars in the USK. In the USA. So that's that's kind of where we are, and I do think that doing business enriching people is the way to go, and it might start with the local producers don't own the brand, but hopefully it gets there in the end, and you wind up with a situation where you have a a Carlos Camarena or something like that.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and for example, in um I totally agree with you, and it's great because then you can invest in your distillery, etc., to make you know the important is to have your tool to produce and um be recognized for that. Uh, in my case, for example, unfortunately, I don't have the money to build my own distillery. So, what I do is to rent the wall. So, if you say take the word, it is not a uh brand with uh own distillery, it will be uh but it's a brand done uh you know with a own process, and uh so we do rent the wall uh and bring on own agave uh our own yeast and process it's our own barrels, even the tanks, uh stellastic tank to be able to rest the tequila because any even the blanco, I I let it rest at least six months in a stylistic tank to let it rest naturally, let the time, and I don't want to be rushed because the distillery will need space. So we did invest in these tanks, and to um and there's the one that has been there for two years already and a half, that the you know, the Cleo UL DOS after all the uh dumping barrels, doing the blending, letting trust. So this is a decision uh taken. But if you look at the registration, it's I don't own the distiller, but so but yeah, so but uh I get your point, and uh I think it's uh it is uh important to yeah to see to whom um yeah to not have this mid parts that are taking the big piece, and hopefully people know more about it. And I think you know, like uh you mentioned Ron Cooper, why he had made uh uh this mescal producer being known and being able to uh earn wealth from their work well and develop them. Um and the importance is then for everyone to be fair and to leave money where uh you know the the value is created and the value what it is is a juice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think that's where we are with the agave world because even if you the world is full of amazing spirits made by incredible people, it is not full of people who know how to sell them. One of my favorite stories involves your countryman, actually, uh Michelle Rue, the creator of Absolute Vodka, uh Bombe Sapphire, and really the modern creator of Zelda Jinaia Vladka. I interviewed him several times. Amazing, amazing guy. And uh he was one of the five billion dollar guys he created a billion-dollar brands, and the only other person in New York who did that was Sydney Frank, the American, who imported Jaeger Meister, which even German people did not drink and made it a huge brand. And he wanted to create Regis, a luxury French vodka. So he went to lunch with Michel Roux, actually French guy, and he said, I'm gonna create a luxury French vodka, and I want you to partner with me. And Michel said, No, that's a stupid, nobody's ever going to drink a French vodka. The world is full of amazing craftspeople, but it's not full of amazing salespeople. Yeah, which is something to be respected.
SPEAKER_00Yes, but uh um yeah, we cannot do both. Actually, this uh limited edition I tell you everyone was is why do you sell the same price? This is stupid, you know? It could have helped you so much to sell it, you know, um much higher. But um, so yes, I do agree with you. Then we cannot uh have too many caps on our head, right? Listen, the reason yeah the the only reason the world I'm glad I didn't forget I would not I will do it the same to be honest, but I understand the point of people, you know.
SPEAKER_01That's the definitive no, I mean the reason the entire world drinks Irish whiskey now is actually because of French people. It's because the Perno Ricard Company at one stage owned all the distilleries in Ireland and then they made very big bets. It took French people to rescue Irish whiskey. This is something we have to adapt. Like the country that drank American bourbon when nobody wanted to drink American bourbon, uh, or the two countries were Australia and Japan. It wasn't America, Americans didn't give a shit. So I want to wrap up, Sophie, and ask you on a personal level, you move to Mexico. This is the question I wanted to ask Danny, actually. Um big change. You're going in there, um, not a perfect command of the language. Uh you're in the distilling world, you're a woman, uh, but also you have a personal life. Like, what were the first five years like compared to the last five years?
SPEAKER_00First five years were um workaholic and workaholic, and the last five years will be workaholic and um having two kids, um, and trying to balance uh doing well, whenever I can, some uh music. I play in a batucada band, uh, so it's like this Brazilian, you know, music when you do carnivals, etc. Very happy, uh and yeah, I love the vibe of that, and I love to swim. So, but sometimes I manage to go once per month in the swimming pool because, and at one point it was like three months not touching the water, because it's difficult to do everything. So, I always my trouble, I would say that is I will I always put work first. Uh, the kids obviously, uh, when uh one is sick, I was happy actually, you know, sometimes you doubt about yourself, no. You say I am a good mother, but no, obviously, they are my priority. Um uh when uh you know when it's needed, when I'm with them, there's no phone, I'm totally connected, but I'm not a usual mother. Uh spend well, I do there's uh you know, I calculated last year. I think I've been at least away from them a third part of the year, and they are very young. Uh, but as far as the school say to me, we don't know how you do, but they are great. We don't say you're not necessary, but we don't feel that they miss you like this. What I do is I do video of something I see, you know, uh when I'm traveling, and then the kids can someone can show that to them whenever it's a great moment to for them. We don't have that goodbye all long moment and heartbreaking thing. And um, so yeah, they can see me as happy because it's a I'm taking that when I'm great, and I think for them it's great to see a happy mom. I love what I do, so I will not do it, I will not be that happy mom. And um and but yes, they don't uh see me as much as the normal. That's a fact. So, yeah, that's the five uh years of balancing this as good as I can. I never feel I do enough in any field. Um, I'm a perfectionist also, so I don't have I don't take a lot of resting time. Uh, but again, I think that's the reason I I chose that's who I am, and yeah, I I learned how to accept that I'm always running person. Um, try not to be too late, but I you know, I'm it's it's great to be in Mexico because when you are late, it's not that bad. Because if you know, we are all on the you know, it's it's like um it's when you invite someone and he comes on time, you're like, what? You know, it's not it's not what we're supposed to be, you know. So no, so that's uh that's the magic of Mexico, to be honest. Uh it's when you yeah, um so yeah, this is uh this is how it is, and uh, but I will not change that for anything.
SPEAKER_01But what's it like making friends when you move over for the first time? And you're living, you know, not in Mexico City, you're living you know outside.
SPEAKER_00You meet people, one of my best friends here, uh Pancho, uh, who many people from the industry know. I met him, uh, he was a taxi driver first, and we become friends. And then when he says that he has come to the industry because of our friendship, but he really did it on his own. Well, he's a fantastic person and the best guide you can have when you visit uh the tequila area. So it's you can search him by better colpancio on Instagram, I think. Yes, but it's fantastic. So we met as yeah, taxi driver, we discussed in the car, and then um, you know, every single person I met was like this, like serendipity. Uh, and so I have a very diverse kind of friends, goes from a teacher in community to an architect, or uh the person who is helping me, you know, with the cleaning, she became a very close friend, also, because you know, she's super talented, and um and you know, now she's doing more things in the company with us, which is great because she's the best person to do inventories, right? Organize, she's the best person even to organize a room for testing. She's super like uh artistical uh so you know so it's not considering people by their debris uh or even by their career, it's considering people in like an individual, and you meet someone, he doesn't have to say who he is, and you discover that's the way I love to make contact with people. So I don't really mind at all the kind of social level, it's uh what is behind inside the dress, as we have been saying before, or the costume you know, for a man or short, if it's you're on the beach, you know, like a t-shirt and short, like and flip-flop. It's uh yeah, that's uh so yeah. I'm very pleased that um I can call Mexico home. I've been uh very well um yeah, very well embraced and welcome. So yeah, it's uh it's a gift from Mexico and from the Mexican people.
SPEAKER_01So tell us what's gonna happen and or what would you like to happen in the next two or three years for uh your brand, Caesit?
SPEAKER_00Well, it will come back to what we said that uh people would taste it for what is inside the bottle. Um, because I've been told in the US, you know, doing a testing, and the bartender was loving it in a very beautiful uh bar in a top roof of uh Chicago. And at the end, when he asked my distributor, oh, so what's the price? And when the distributor said I could see the disappointed face, like, oh, this is so cheap. And I was like, Well, if you want to give me more money, you can, you know, like he loved it and he was disappointed because of the price. And I was like, Come on. So um, yes, to to really do that would be uh that to that's yeah, if I can be selfish, I would say that the brand, you know, very uh, but yeah, I would also, it's not that it's very subjective, but I do believe we do for the use um uh good use because we really do it with passion and with the best we can. There's no uh not at all uh how you say that uh you know, uh there's no money uh saving on the process and on the quality of the tequila. Never ever. And I'd rather earn zero, um, but being able to continue than uh earning more and being like, oh, but yeah, this lot, you know, you should not drink that for uh tasting. When we earned all the double gold medal at the San Francisco Strait Competition and the best tequila for Rio, well I said to my distributor in California, well, I didn't even say for what it was, but I said, can you please prepare a pack for with this kind of category? So they picked the bottles from the warehouse. So I didn't know the lot that was chosen, I didn't know the condition of the storage, but these are the bottles that were judged in the San Francisco period competition. Or we got Sherman Trophy in Ultimate Storage Challenge, and the same bottles from the warehouse, any bottle that anyone can grab. This is my value, I think. Well, my trust, the judgment should be done on a shelf bottle that you can purchase in your liquor store. So that this is it, yeah. It would be that people could see that that could see that the the the work behind the uh what we want to share in our beautiful bottles. Yeah, but um, but again, again, um uh and and discover other brands are really uh other brands, other categories. I don't want to finish with someone so concentrated because they have amazing things that are uh produced every day, new projects, and really I would speak for the category better is really to go for what your palate is loving. If someone gives you a glass, don't ask the price, don't ask what it is. Taste it, you like it, go for it. That would be my uh uh prayer. You say that by pray.
SPEAKER_01I think the Sophie Takovek t-shirt is go for it, right? You could have a whole range of Sophie merch. Well, look, this has been amazing. Thank you so very much. I know it's happy hour in Hialisco. Uh you'll probably want to be having some uh beer to go with your tequila. Um, how can people find you, your company, and Kaye Vantifres online, social media, all that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_00Yes, so I hope I will say it right. It's uh Kaye Bentitres Tequila, so C A double L E 23, so 23, the number two three, tequila, T E Q U I L E. It's terrible to say letters, and uh that yeah, uh that's for social media. So K23 tequila. Myself, I'm Sophie de Quebec, and uh we are in 20 countries now. We have a waiting list of 22 countries, so we are opening new countries when we are sure to have enough for the existing market. That is also my respect to the uh re people who do an amazing work in the market. So I don't want them to be in lack of products. Um, so yeah, and uh and in online uh selling uh platform. Well, as you could say, as you said before, I'm not the best to sell. So I don't know, I don't know what to say more than this, but yes, yes, you please contact us on social media and someone will in the 10 hours per uh week will answer to you.
SPEAKER_01Eventually, somebody will reply.
SPEAKER_00Eventually, be patient, please. But no, if someone will answer.
SPEAKER_01This has been so amazing. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for inviting me and for this very good uh you know journey in the discussion. Now it's time for a drink.