Life, Health & The Universe - A Podcast For The Midlife Rebel

Midlife Magic: Embracing Change With Debs De Vries

• Host - Nadine Shaw - Gene Keys Guide, Astrologer, Human Design Enthusiast, Midlife Wellness Advocate • Season 15 • Episode 6

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What if the discomfort of midlife transition isn’t something to push through or medicate away, but a profound invitation to reclaim your most authentic self? In this episode of Life, Health & The Universe, Debs De Vries brings over 30 years of experience in spiritual and personal development to illuminate the deeper meaning of this powerful life stage.

Debs shares how a vivid dream called her to work specifically with midlife women, guiding them through the physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual gifts of this transition. With refreshing honesty, she describes peri-menopause and menopause as a spiritual initiation — much like Persephone’s descent to the underworld — challenging, yes, but ultimately transformative.

We explore the fascinating connection between hormonal shifts and spiritual awakening, revealing how so-called “symptoms” like brain fog, hot flushes, or emotional changes may actually signal the release of outdated patterns and the emergence of deeper soul expression. As Debs puts it: “This is the version of yourself you knew you could be at 15” — before years of conditioning and compromise dimmed your light.

The conversation also delves into Debs’ book, The Voice, the Vulva and the Vagus, where she explores the profound link between the vagus nerve, our voice, and our creative centre. She explains how these three elements form a kind of inner technology, allowing divine vibration to move through us and manifest in the world.

At 68, Debs embodies the vibrant potential of midlife and beyond — reframing ageing not as decline but as a spiral of continued growth, creativity, and expansion. For women navigating uncertainty, confusion, or disconnection in midlife, her wisdom offers both spiritual perspective and practical guidance to reconnect with your authentic self.

Listen now and discover how the challenges of midlife can become portals to transformation, authenticity, and joy.

Find Debs’ full profile in our Guest Directory

https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/person/debs-de-vries

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Life, health and the Universe, bringing you stories that connect us, preventative and holistic health practices to empower us and esoteric wisdom to enlighten us. We invite you to visit our website, where you can access the podcast, watch on YouTube and find all of our guests in the guest directory. Visit lifehealththeuniversepodcastpageio. Now let's get stuck into this week's episode. Today, I'm joined by Deb Stivries, a guide and mentor who helps midlife women reconnect with their inner wisdom and walk a more aligned, soul-led path. With over 30 years of experience in spiritual and personal development, debs blends energy work, transference, healing, tantra and shamanic practices to help women shift frequency, clear doubt and step into their power. She's also the author of the Voice, the Vulva and the Vegas, a book that explores the deep connections between our bodies, our stories and our capacity for healing. If you're in a time of transition or searching for clarity in this next chapter of life, debs brings a powerful perspective you won't want to miss. Thank you so much for joining me, debs. I'm really looking forward to this. It's been a long time in the making this interview, hasn't it? It has, but you know, just as we've got to know each other, I see all the strands of our backgrounds and our values and our passions coming together. Yeah, I couldn't be more thrilled that you asked me. Thank you, oh, thank you. And we're on the opposite ends of the day, so first thing in the morning for me, last thing in the evening for you. I don't know if you're a morning person or a night owl, but I do appreciate you making it happen. Thank you so much. Not at all. And for those people watching, you'll see, we still got this beautiful, stunning, that that light is just just gorgeous and it's, you know, for all that we suffer in the winter winter in England, here and march, about moaning, about it's dark at four, which it is we get these long, lucid evenings, which are? They just go on and on. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, all right, debs, to kick us off, can you share a little bit about your journey to becoming a midlife mentor, because this is quite specific, right, you have mentors here, that here, there and everywhere doing all of their beautiful things, but midlife mentor, it's a significant point in our journeys. Can you share how you came to realize that this was the, the place you wanted to help people, women, I most, I most certainly can, and I'm very glad you highlighted that it's midlife and first of all I want to sort of disclaim that I jumped in because there was a gap in the market.

Speaker 1:

It didn't happen like that at all. It was 10 years ago, maybe more than 10 years ago, and I had a professional background. When I say professional, I mean I was trained and working in business as a corporate consultant. So I was teaching high level business and executive skills, induction skills. I was helping companies design people, processes. I saw a lot of um psychology. I did a lot of psychology, I did a lot of practical skills training. So there was that. And then there was the secret part of my life. There was the um.

Speaker 1:

I'm a solo practitioner of natural magic, which is what I called myself for a long time. I didn't say that publicly, but that's what I called myself. Then along came Reiki and then along came Transference Healing, and this was happening throughout the early 2000s. So these two horses trotted along together relatively comfortably until the end of 2012. And I found that I was wanting to put more and more of the spiritual into my practical teaching. Let me just say spiritual for me means recognizing the invisible realms at play, the layers of meaning within us. It means understanding that we're more than physical and not just mental and emotional beings. But there's a level to us which, in a sense, is quite different from our humanity, that longs to be part of it, and I think we long to have that part of us. You know, in our life certainly I felt that, but I didn't do anything about it because I was, you know, earning good money in a corporate. Anyway, that came to an end quite abruptly because I got quite sick.

Speaker 1:

And in in that period of being off work, a friend called me and she said oh, debs, I'm in the country, I'm doing a workshop called Unleash your Dreams. And I thought oh, workshops, workshops, I've done them all, I've run them, all you know. And something in me said don't be arrogant, go and so. And a couple weeks after this workshop and it's not the first time it's happened to me I had a very clear dream, very, very distinct. In the dream there were four like birthday presents, wrapped in very different colors, and what I knew was what I heard was Debra, you've got physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual gifts. You must take them to midlife women.

Speaker 1:

Now, until that moment, nadine, I had no idea that that's where I was headed. None, wow, and I got out of bed and I did that sort of groping around looking for my underwear and like how do these four things fit? Because I'm a teacher, I'm a tantric, and then, as I asked, three things popped into my mind, like the pegs that pulled everything together bang, bang, bang. Oh my gosh. In that moment I thought, no wonder midlifelife can become such a crisis and so very, very difficult to negotiate. Got it and I pretty much went downstairs, put together an event called Midlife or Menopause Magic Facebook event, booked a venue and three people signed on and I thought, yeah, oh, and what I was able to teach when I I put the pegs together, as I call it, the little jigsaw pieces, just revived and renewed everything I knew about midlife and I was, as you can see, still 10 old. I still get excited when I see the whole yeah, yeah, it's an interesting time, isn't it? I have, in hindsight.

Speaker 1:

I started this podcast about three and a half years ago and it's. It's only really just started to become more apparent to me now that this has been part of my own journey through midlife, because all of a sudden, things don't really feel the same and when you're in the, in the midst of it, you don't even realize that that's a thing, um and yeah. Over time it's well, it's like what does this all mean? What's life about? What's my purpose? All of these things start cropping up and they can be quite subtle, but it's yeah. It's really started to become more apparent to me that this is a really huge turning point in our lives in so many different ways.

Speaker 1:

Have you pinpointed some specific areas that you see women going through in their midlife? Is there one thing, is there like multiple experiences? Experiences? Yes, I think you've just named it pretty well. Sometimes it can be subtle, sometimes not so subtle, very distressing, because there suddenly comes a sense of what next? What am I doing? What does this mean?

Speaker 1:

I don't feel the same. I don't feel the same about mean. I don't feel the same. I don't feel the same about a. I don't feel the same about work. I don't feel the same about being a part of being a mother. And it's not necessary that something is happening externally that seems to have changed, which causes even more confusion. Sometimes it's, there's something. Sometimes the subtext just becomes there's something wrong with me.

Speaker 1:

Women can start having extreme dreams, very powerful dreams. They can start feeling very disconnected, genuinely speaking, as though suddenly they've lost contact with something that was interesting and engaging. People in places that used to fill them, you know, suddenly lose their attraction. And so we enter this. It's like Persephone going into the underworld. We enter this place that not only do we not know, although at a level we do, but we're not in cultured to expect it, we're not in cultured to learn how to walk through it. What generally, what to expect? Like I said, you're thinking no one size fits all. There's no cookie cutter journey, but there is a path and it's.

Speaker 1:

It's about overcoming certain um, and overcome doesn't mean to get rid of, it means to grow beyond, really, certain aspects of the self that have been in place throughout your life and be very important and useful, but maybe for lifetimes. It's about overcoming the parts of us that we don't see, don't know are operating, coming to terms with that part of ourselves, shadow, and it's about taking responsibility in a way that creates a new environment, psychologically, emotionally and physically, so that the next level of your soul can embed and that's a very technical thing, it actually does it through the endocrine system, okay, so if you imagine, let's say, the soul is this, you know, beautiful rainbow and it's. You know, some of your soul is already working through you. But now it's another wave. You're in another cycle of your life.

Speaker 1:

And these spirals because there's an astrological impact going on which we might talk about too. But these spirals want to pull us up. But before, before we can go up, we have to deal with the frequencies that need to be lifted as well. So the invitation is to go into the underworld. It's to become Persephone, to face the demons and to reemerge in such a way that we're more. We reemerge in such a way that we're more, we're expanded, and that's, I know, a bit of a woolly, woo-woo word. We have greater capacity. In some ways, we have much greater capacity.

Speaker 1:

And, oddly enough, in other ways I often say to my clients what you'll find at midlife is your band of tolerance seems to get tighter, like, like. I can't tolerate this anymore. How awful of me. No, no, this is part of what's happening for you. You're learning to discriminate and make new spaces in your life, because when you hit that frequency, your endocrine system can hold the power. And the endocrine system generates hormones. Right, what's a hormone? It's a heavenly messenger. We go to the greek. It's a way that we start to listen more deeply to the, the code, the messaging that's now coming through the next wave. You know you had a wave when you were born, right, it was a wave when you started menstruation. These waves come and they are because, like you, I'm a practical woman. It's not just out there in the woo, it hits you through your light body, through your electromagnetic field, through the crystalline structures which speak to the water of your cells, which speaks to your endocrine system.

Speaker 1:

So how could menopause not be the greatest, craziest ride of all? Because there you have estrogen, progesterone, now going whoo, whoo, whoo and trying to rebalance within you in order to hold this new balance, for you to become what I call the version of yourself that you knew you could be at 15. At 15 or 16, most women have a pretty strong sense of self, and this isn't a wrong or a bad thing. But most of us spend the next 30 years building something, nesting, building a business, maybe entering a partnership in a planet time, which is right. Then we hit 44, uranus versus Uranus. Wake up call. If we clear that, we get to 48, chiron, oh my god, that's where you know. Suddenly we're, we're invited to be, a whole new person. Pretty cool, actually, wow, amazing. And it's so affirming for me because this is kind of like me, what you've just described.

Speaker 1:

But it started a lot earlier and in quite a sneaky little way for me, because I didn't have children until I was 40, so I didn't really start thinking about having kids until I was 38. And that's kind of like one of those turning point moments and it felt like a beginning. And so you know, you wouldn't necessarily put it together with midlife crisis or a midlife point, because it's a something that most or many people do much earlier on, but in hindsight that was the beginning. And then my husband and I moved away from the city into the mid-north coast, new South Wales, and I'd done that, I'd moved from in my youth, I'd moved from England to Australia, and it was like, you know, I can do that, I can move six hours away and boom, it hit me.

Speaker 1:

And there was this just like, what am am I doing? I don't feel the same. What's my path? Who am I going to be? Now, like there were all these things and gradually it's kind of, you know, bit by bit pieced together. Then there's perimenopause that's thrown in as well. Um and chiron. I turned 50 last year, so chiron return happening.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like you've basically explained my story, I'm really interested and you know what that underworld thing, the persephone thing as well. This has been an internal journey. This has been like, to the outside eye probably nothing has been going on, you know. But um, for me, inside this there's been this a massive shift and it's continuing and I'm I'm riding, I'm riding the way, I'm going with it, um, and kind of just seeing what, you know, what emerges on the other side when that happens. Might not be until I'm 56, I don't know, but I'm really curious.

Speaker 1:

Just, does everyone have this feeling? I mean, we all go through the experience, but does everyone kind of run with it? Or do some people just kind of like push through and my, you know I haven't got a scientific answer to that, because, but what I do know from talking to a variety of women over 10 years, some women push through, some women I've certainly say, oh, I didn't notice anything. I don't say that and that's. And I know that it can be a lot more gentle. Um, I think that depends culturally.

Speaker 1:

Uh, how you managed menage, how low stressed you've been, because certainly one of the problems for many of the women I meet is their adrenal glands are really, really struggling. And that's where I would start, because we can't get where we're going until the physical body is relatively stable and the adrenal glands have a very spiritual role. That's a separate piece of the body, of course, but after we transition through perimenopause to lernopause so I'm 68, so I have done it and, uh, we, we need the adrenals to be healthy because they then continue to produce estradiol, so they have a very important role to play on so many levels and we could just talk about the spiritual role of the adrenal gland. So, if and if I do just segue to that, because I hope it comes back and answers a very important question, because someone will say, well, just take HRT and that's their choice. You know I'm not here to say yes or no over the years have come because they felt something that I might call a calling, an indwelling. This isn't something I want to bypass From a spiritual perspective.

Speaker 1:

What I see is that some women, some souls, are born into this lifetime, that they are going to take this journey in the flesh, in this lifetime and it's their time. If I'm, I anticipate we kind of answer, but I don't think everybody is ready to do that. I don't think it's necessarily everybody's lifetime. We should all be doing the same thing. I foresee that in times to come, hundreds of years into the future, maybe three or four hundred years, this transition will be honored, respected and prepared for, so that there won't be the road crashes that we kind of have now and the panic and the upset because the divine, feminine aspect of humanity will be so much better understood, embedded and lived that to honor the passages that a woman's body goes through would seem absolutely preeminent and necessary.

Speaker 1:

Because what Spirit said to me when this all started was you must tell women, she said, that they're not being punished. You know, a lot of the pain and upset we feel is simply because we haven't had the wise guidance and support to deal with ourselves as complete beings from a relatively from an early age, except that it is if we haven't done the steady building and the work that allows these processes, because if life works through us, we are not life, ourself are we, we are a piece of life and it's always worth trying to work through us like something spiraling up. You know something spiraling up and very much in the west, the idea that we can't control it, um, that we just power through things, that I even read something the other day which I didn't read in depth because I felt angry when I started from a female doctor saying there's research that says menopause is something we can fix no longer Because the wisdom of women, as the mother said to me, you must tell them they're not being punished, because the wisdom of women has never been more needed on the planet. It's a toughie, isn't it it? Because I'm totally with you on that and I know that some women are going through really, um, well, I wouldn't even say bad experiences, but experiences that they're not used to right. The big we get, the big ones of the people going oh, I've got hot flushes, or brain fog. It's like, well, I kind of refuse to use those words it's like well, yeah, I'm having some experiences, but maybe brain fog is like me doing too much, trying to think about too many things and in fact I just need to focus on the most important things. Doing too much, trying to think about too many things and in fact I just need to focus on the most important things to be clear and present. And hot flushes, it's just like oh, just got a wave. But, yeah, we're not taught to embrace those experiences and, in fact, we don't have time for them because we need to.

Speaker 1:

Well, the message is that we need to be doing all of these things and be busy and ticking all of the lists. Yeah, because value is often measured as a unit of production. You know how much? How much have you done? Yeah, you've done, and we are encultured to that. What did you do today? Yes, we're talking about fundamental human value here and so much of the West is driven by production. What can we see and measure? And we didn't start like that. We weren't born into this life as units of production and of course, we should be active and contributing and vital. But we can't just operate from a single line of production all our life and expect to be.

Speaker 1:

Well, I don't think. And you know the brain fog and if you know the work, you may have heard of a wonderful woman called Dr Lisa Moscone, but she teaches a lot about the brain in perimenopause. And a similar thing happens to 15, 14, 15, 16 year olds the brain prunes. Okay, it prunes. So I think you're right. I think you know I'm forgetting things. Well, I write them down, right.

Speaker 1:

I used to be Mrs. I could do it all. Now I can't do it all, so I don't mind, because I'm not measuring myself or expecting affirmation from the outside world in a way that I used to and I did used to, so I've learned get rounds. But am I more present? Do I laugh more? Do I do more things that bring me pleasure? Am I a better friend? Am I a happier human? Yes, 100%, because I believe that menopause, perimenopause, teaches us to let go. Not that those things weren't important, but the one constant in life is change, right, and what we're not taught is that change is not only okay, but actually my personal experience, it's been so cool, you know, to be the new me. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I've, um, it's been a journey for me and it wasn't really until sort of my probably after I had children, that I realized how impactful my cycle was and how I could work with my cycle and listen to my body more. It was very much, and I see this in a lot of other women as well.

Speaker 1:

Shut down, ignore like push through. You know you're having your period. You still do all of the things pre-period. You know you feel hungry, hungrier. So I you know, I work with women in in fitness and health and it's like what's wrong with me? I had control two weeks ago and now I've got no control because we just didn't understand in the gym what's wrong with me. I was able to do this last week and I can't do it this week.

Speaker 1:

It's all part of our cycle but we never really acknowledged it or been taught about it. So it's still very early days and it's connected to so many things, isn't it? So I feel like I've kind of entered that understanding on the tail end, because I'm now sort of in perimenopause. But being like on the other side, where you start to, like you were saying, where you feel like a new you because you don't have that cycle, it feels much more balanced, although I have to say I do feel more connected to the cycles of the moon. Now I can really feel that energetic similarity, not in as much intensity, but definitely feel those kind of waves of being more outward, wanting to be more inward.

Speaker 1:

But, yeah, it's really important to, to teach, to, for women to learn this stuff, isn't it? And I think you said something there that goes straight to my heart and it's what's wrong with what's wrong with me? Yeah, and so, given that I was born in 1956 and the first 20 years of my life I worked in male-dominated environments and I was raised by a powerful father figure, and I think, for me anyway, I can say anything that didn't match up to the way that it was being done around me. And this isn't men, bad women, good, it's the expectations. And, of course, stories about women's health weren't. Nobody spoke about that, you know.

Speaker 1:

So my mother's attitude would be you just keep quiet, you become presentable and you don't let on that. You're a woman effectively, and I think there were layers to that. Being a woman is dangerous. You might be attractive, somebody might be attracted to you and you might not be able to cope all of these things, but essentially you're in a man's world. You don't talk about being a woman, you don't act very much like a woman and you certainly don't have anything going on in your body that you would want to share with anybody else. It had to be hidden and in order to survive, in a sense, and this is part of it.

Speaker 1:

There's a wonderful teacher in England, a Tantra teacher, called Uma Dinsmore Tully. You may even come across her. The only time I've seen her books is like that. I mean, she's brilliant and I've met her. She's in Stroud, okay, she travels around the world and she made a comment once about you know, when you think about post-childbirth and the womb's been torn to shreds, right, there's a big wound inside you for quite some days. If anybody had that wound externally they'd be really well treated in hospital, you know. And she has classes in a place in london called camden. Very often she says women are coming in two or three days post delivery wanting to do higher level yoga not unusual back in the day. You've probably seen it.

Speaker 1:

Because this hiddenness of what's inside us, this hiddenness of what's inside us, this womb which is a copy of the divine creative space and I'm going to name it, it's not some, it's not just the biggest, most powerful organ in the body, which it is, it's it's our, it's a creative organ in both a physical and a metaphysical. Anything that's invisible, even in the physical body, is usually ignored. Period pain I was told a doctor had recently published pain studies saying that severe menstrual cramps are very similar, if not more painful than, a heart attack as experienced by a guy, by man. Wow. And last for hours and hours and hours for days and days and days. Wow, just, I, I can't reference that, but uh, I know who it was and she's therapist, so you know she was following her. What I'm saying is that we're taught there's something wrong with us innately yeah, something innately wrong, and that isn't it's just by comparison with the male gender. Anyway, we're different. Yeah, wow, that's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, it's quite an experience. I've been.

Speaker 1:

Uh, I'll just briefly say this. I've been talking to my daughter about it. She's nine, so I was like, okay, it's time I took it. I took her out, I bought her a jam donut. It was raining. I was like, well, she's always going to have a nice memory of the jam donut. Whenever we have a talk, we'll have a jam donut.

Speaker 1:

And like I was telling her about periods and you know it was all a little bit awkward and I was like you know what? I just feel like you need to know, we need to talk about it because we're ushering in, you know, a new experience and my mum never talked to me about it. I was very embarrassed and ashamed and awkward and it was painful and you know. But yeah, so that just a kind of a little aside. You know, the jam donut kind of metaphorically, it kind of is, isn't it? I didn't even think of that. Oh dear, it's a how can?

Speaker 1:

I've asked myself this question how can women not tell other women? How come we're so ashamed and embarrassed? My mother couldn't tell me. She muttered a few things and I know that when she started to menstruate she was terrified. She was dying. She was a twin and they clung to each other in terror and couldn't tell anybody. And they, oh my goodness, oh my god, yeah, I'm bleeding, I mean, from a place in your body that most little girls or young women haven't really got to exploring.

Speaker 1:

So loaded with guilt and shame and the fact that as women, we have until recently not been able to tell each other, generation to generation. Hey, darling, you've got a woman's body. I'm a woman. I'm going to tell you some stuff about it. Yeah, that to me is verging on some kind of terrible repression that I don't want to even name. Yeah, you cannot do it. Yeah, it's pretty full-on when you kind of dig into that, isn't it? It's like what. I wonder if this is a good. I want to get back to transference, healing and alchemy and alchemy and what that all means, but I feel like this is a really good segue into your book.

Speaker 1:

So if we could kind of go to your book and then come back that I think that just because of where we're at in the conversation, um, yeah, it's, it's pretty full-on that that we do feel this kind of shame, guilt, oh, all of the things, and you name a lot of these things in your book. So the book is the voice, the vulva and the vegas, and there it is. I've got it on kindle so I have read it, but it was a few, a few months ago now, a couple months ago. So, um, yeah, just the relationship between those three things and the power of our voice as well, and like why that's important. But you, you start the book with an introduction to, you know, a heartfelt sort of acknowledgement of the women and all of the different experiences that they may have had when it comes to our sexuality. Our experience, yeah, very powerful. So where do we go with that? What inspired you to write the book did that come from? Was that a download, a dream? Pretty close, I had started to wander into the Vegas nerve territory about five years ago, um, and I don't know why it was just there five or six years ago, before it became and I'm very glad it has and I was just teaching some classes around it and a couple of years into that I saw a connection Again.

Speaker 1:

It was like a little jigsaw puzzle. I used the word vulva in its fullest meaning to include the womb and the ovaries and fallopian tubes, as well as the vagina and the labia and all of that. It actually you know, I want to bring that word back and it is coming back and I was like that's so interesting. And then I thought about the womb as a physical representation of the void of creation, physical representation of the void of creation. And then I looked at the vagus nerve, if you like, with psychic perception, which is what happens for me and I went, oh, oh, that's what you're doing, oh, that's why the causal shack, ah. So these things started and I started giving talks about it.

Speaker 1:

I had no intention to write a book and then, july, two years ago, I went to see a friend in Paris. We met in Paris and she was doing something on a particular day and I thought, oh, I don't think it's this book actually. But I got a new notebook on a particular day and I thought, oh, I don't think it's this book actually, but I've got a new notebook. I feel I need to sit down with my new notebook and ask this question. So I went into this fancy pants hotel and had a cheapskate cup of tea and my notebook was very lovely. That's how I wrote my book. What should I write? And they just went the Voice, theva and the vagus and I wrote it down. And you, you possibly feel I feel how important this work feels through me.

Speaker 1:

The tears came. I didn't sit there and sob, I just. And because it was Paris and the staff was standing there all beautifully and that they just like looked at me, like yeah, she's a writer, just fine, we understand. I didn't feel out of place at all. It was lovely, you know. I had some more tea and they made me a little cake or something and I just went, oh, that's what I've got to do.

Speaker 1:

So I came back to England and I wrote it in six months and then I spent six months appalling, terrible struggles trying to edit. My son was brilliant. He stepped in and did a lot of the first editing. Um, getting it ready for publication drove me to like I'm at the end of my tab, because that's where I'm really weak is like detail and admin and all the rest of it, and it just kept bouncing and spirit kept saying, no, you're going to get this over the line. I'm like, oh, I'm fed up with it now. And they're like, no, you're gonna finish it. So, yeah, it went live last August, I think.

Speaker 1:

Um, and why does it connect the voice to the vulva and the vagus nerve? Well, it's quite simply the creative power of sound the echo chamber and the reproductive chambers of the room and the voice box, the chambers of the womb and the voice box, the way the vagus nerve not only physically and anatomically connects these, which has only been quite recently noted, that the vagus nerve enervates it in the cervix. And if you look at the diagrams for male bodies, which most of them are, it's of course there's no cervix there. And when the vagus nerve is tense and it reads fear and we can sidestep to the adrenal flow, won't? But then we don't speak fully, or even sometimes at all.

Speaker 1:

So our creations, what comes out of our mouth abenrak, kadoish, kadoish, kadoish, abracadabra I shall create as I speak. As they say in hebrew, every sound we make is a vibration which has been drawn from source. When we truly feel the vibrations of our soul because the vagus nerve is calm, it's 360, it's picking up from a very big field, it's also bringing in the causal chakra and it's grounding us into the earth star chakra when we truly feel those, then what we speak is aligned with our soul maybe not with your soul, no, maybe not with the current zeitgeist, but with source, and that was shown to me 25 years ago. There will come a time on Earth or at least we have the potential when we won't need, if you like, outside direction, because the beauty that we see through the human body, where a trillion cells have cooperated, will come about because we will surrender to the divine impulse that is actually us and we will collaborate and cooperate in the same way. So if I want to make muffins and give them away, that's oversimplifying it. But the way that we all have a unique gift, the cell has a unique part to play in the body, and that was shown to me I think it's in the book actually how that happened, but I didn't know at the time. I just thought, oh, what a fabulous piece of information. What I didn't know, nadine, was that I was going to spend 25 years on my, from being initiated to being able to write about it, to explain that these three areas are working as a piece of technology which, if it's very Optimal, is translating divine vibration into the world.

Speaker 1:

Wow, yeah, and you explain some physical practices that we can do to help to. What do you say? I don't want to say improve. Well, I think they talk about to vagal nerve, to tone. Yeah, tone the vagal nerve.

Speaker 1:

But also so like, with, when you think of that, that triple connection and the fact that our voice is very powerful and that often we don't say what we or we don't express who we are, for example, that that can help to like, align us and and reconnect with the creative impulse. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely physical. It's very, very good because the voice is a living instrument. So ultimately, we can. We have to run, you know, we have to look at the metaphysical, but until it's actually recalibrated in the body, because we're often overcoming such embodied patterns and you'll see this in your work the way people move, you know it's, and it may not be a, but it's not functional and it's the way we're in culture to speak a certain way or to say a certain thing without listening deeply inwards going back to the perimenopause journey takes you inwards to speak something that's creative, helpful and honest. Speak something that's creative, helpful and honest. And also to alchemize those words that also want to be expressed, that are harmful, destructive and dishonest. Because they're there, we can't avoid them. Hmm, there's that magic word, alchemy, and so we can come back. I don't want to sort of discount the discussion we've been having about your book. I recommend that women buy it and it's a relatively quick read but, yeah, pretty powerful. So, alchemy, alchemy, alchemy, alchemy and transference healing. So I've had laverne joined me for um 12 episodes last year, so we've. She introduced us to a lot of the work of transference healing. Um, this is your work. Would you like like to start by sharing how you came across Transference Healing and what it's done in your world and the journey that you've taken with it? It's kind of magic.

Speaker 1:

2000, maybe 1999, I woke up one morning and I thought how bizarre my DNA is changing. I'm Mrs Broadshoulders, you know, mrs Middle Class, doing the middle class thing. But I thought no, that seems to be what I'm thinking this morning. How strange. So I rang my friend and I told her and she said oh, I think you ought to ring this other lady. She's just been to America and met a woman who turns out later to be Alexis Cartwright, the founder, anchor and channel of Transference, and she's working with the DNA. Oh good, I say, make a phone call. Lady says, yeah, come down and see me, you're not mad. Uh, your DNA is transmuting or evolving or something. Anyway, I don't know what she did. I lay on the bed, I didn't give it too much thought and a couple of years later, the same Alexis who had been in the states and was talking about DNA recodingoding and alchemy came to England, not far from where I am now, actually on the estate that some of your listeners may have visited.

Speaker 1:

It's called Ulthorp. It's where the Spencer family home is. Okay, oh yeah, they lived there and buried there. And we met at the village hall. Oh yeah, alchemy, and I was like I kind of loved the word but didn't really understand it. She channeled some alchemy symbols for us and she did a one-on-one channeling and when she looked in my eyes I went to a place inside myself. I don't think anybody else could ever go except me and I thought this is whoever she is've met. You know, I was doing Reiki and I've met some great people. But this is something else. This is above anything. I've ever touched Long journey.

Speaker 1:

I was doing Reiki, as I mentioned, and one night I came home, meditated. I'd been running my monthly circle and I heard you've got to give up Reiki and I thought you are kidding. I'd kicked and screamed. It'd taken me six years to go to master level and I thought I was done in my arrogance. But it was a real insistence and, sure, sure enough, five or six weeks later, the same friend who'd advised me to go to Northampton said oh, by the way, I've learned this transference healing. I hadn't. I'd gone to the meeting and thought it was wonderful, but my friend had gone on to learn how to teach it. Do you want to know? And I was like yeah. So I went. I can't imagine, well, went. I can't imagine. Well, I can actually imagine how my life might have gone had I not had these tools and I don't think it would have been very pretty.

Speaker 1:

Um, one of the things I learned along the way. So my, my mother, her twin, my cousin, have also come to varieties of ovarian or breast cancer okay, the b12 gene. So there is an understory that I was kind of unaware of, but was speaking to me, you know, um, and I began to realize that if I accepted this energy, in fact it was made very clear to me that I would have to run with it. That's what I was told because, if you like what I call my guide, did I do my higher self? My guide showed me internally that if I accepted this high level of energy, higher frequency, and I didn't do something with it, it would. Where does energy go right? And if there's a weakness in a link and energy goes there right we've seen circuits it would build up. The same I I did my mother and my aunt and my cousin and grow somewhere. I didn't want to.

Speaker 1:

So I continued through my journey and I'd just completed Mystery School 5 in Australia, as you know, along with the advanced teach training that started. My journey there started in 2008, I think utter transformation alchemy, you could say. One level is, first of all, being able to increase the amount of light photons that you can hold in your cells and, as a result of that, being able to embody finer particles of very fine elements of prana and above into your subatomic and cellular system, so that you can hold higher frequencies and patterns of light and that you can transmute lower frequency energy. It's not not bad, not good. Just you know you get tired of them. You do. Paralenopause begins to teach you that and you know how to alchemize them, in other words, decode and recode, so that you begin to use them more as fuel than just having parts of your life that don't align. And it's not that we don't get peaks and troughs still, but the way that I approach them and ride them is completely different because I have tools to use. So there's a few parts here. There's the part where you're using transference healing for your own well-being and then you're you also help others with their well-being and the the journey through mid Transference healing, I would assume, is a big part of that process when you work with people.

Speaker 1:

But now you're also teaching other people how to use transference healing. You've become a practitioner in that as well. Is it very similar to Reiki? Because Reiki is kind of like energetic healing? Isn't it similar to Reiki? Because Reiki is kind of like energetic healing, isn't it? And trans is transference healing, energetic healing is is kind of energetic healing as well. Both Reiki and transference use high frequency energy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, I was beginning to feel the difference when my guide said you need to do something else, because I couldn't feel the reiki going beyond the chakras and I knew there was some chakras. So transference, because it's a seventh dimensional, it works on the light body and it works at subatomic level and it works on levels, many levels in between. So it's you just say it's a broader and deeper and more encompassing um modality for our times. You know respect to reiki, I'm still a reiki master, it'll never leave me. But and it was a modality for that time, look at how it came in. It came in on the back of the discovery of chiron. You know it was all that new stuff that helped us to move. But we need transference because transference actually tackles the distortions in bodies that reiki doesn't, wasn't designed to.

Speaker 1:

Okay, how much? Um? This is me because I like. I like detail and information. But obviously, how much is this? How much do you need to understand or intellectualize within the process of transference healing? For do you know what I mean? Like I love the question, nothing.

Speaker 1:

First of all, it has to take you into alpha state. It takes you into alpha state Usually as soon as I start running the energy. People are like, because we're we, we, we, first of all we've got to touch the subconscious and we've got to go layers beyond it. You don't need to know a thing. And most people come back from it and go, how long have I been? And they're like oh, that was an hour. And they're like really, sometimes I'm not very clairvoyant I can be, but I have seen guides walking around me. Alexis kind of always teases it. She says you know you lot should bring your dribble bibs, because when we're around her we all go oh, that's what really takes place, because we're out of beta wave, so we go into alpha, sometimes theta and delta, and that's where the energy can tap into those different layers cellular, atomic and subatomic. Okay, that's good to know.

Speaker 1:

How have you seen your work transform the women that you work with, that you work with? Key word would be a quiet confidence, an inner stability, I would say coming close to an unshakability. It's not that we're not shaken or stirred, and in fact the journey takes you into feeling more, because feelings are the language of the soul, but having the tools to keep ourselves balanced and you mentioned it earlier, it's not a neutral balance, it's not like a rigid balance, it's like standing on the lock. You need to feel the movement because the polarization of your energy field has to keep happening to allow the tension of creation within it. But how you move back to embody the new frequency, rather than slip off the log or become too rigid, is you know, there are moments when I feel a little bit smug. I'm like, yeah, a moment. So I'm like, oh god, this is really happening to me. But it's it's that knowing yourself.

Speaker 1:

I think one of the first things we learn in transparent, in the fundamentals, is know thyself. I think that was a lots of weeks to heal thyself, know thyself. I think that was a lot of Greek stories heal thyself, know thyself. So this inner sense of location, not necessarily about what you do or what you're worth, it's just like, yeah, I got me, I got me through storms and the good times, my high self's got me and I know how to have that communication and to deal with my humanness in a way that keeps me aligned to my soul's calling Love. That the midlife journey is a journey of parts in itself, isn't it? And it goes for a solid period of time. Well, that's been my experience.

Speaker 1:

How long do you generally work with women when they're going through this journey. Do you have a certain amount of time? A process I mean mine's been going on for years. I'd be a great client. Well, I could say one size doesn't fit all, yeah, yeah, I think there has to be an initial close contact period. I will say it is about six months so I can pass on tools, because you know, my goal is to give you all the things you need. I don't don't need me forever. That would be, you know, a very therapeutic kind of way of doing things. I don't want it to be a therapy, I want it to be a living, breathing reality for you has been for me. So I think you know six months with some wobble and flexibility for life either side.

Speaker 1:

So you, you know my clients get used to how I help them approach things, how to see things, and at the same time I'm running energy every month on them. So I know that even if nothing else happens, that's going to provoke what needs to be seen and dealt with. So the first two or three months we we deal with principles and usually in that period what needs to pop up, what's been sitting just under the surface, pops up. Great, so we deal with that deal with learn to use everything that appears on the mat. And at the end of six months I usually say look, you know, now, when you need me, you choose yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I've got some clients who just like to keep a loose rein, as I call it, and pop in two or three times a year. It's fine, I don't have a, that's what I want. I want for my clients to say deb's, or, you know, give me a call and say um, this is difficult. I've done it myself. I've called my teacher at times and said I'm really out my depth at the moment. That's how you teach your children, isn't it? Yeah, it gets further from this. Is this is time to call mom? Yeah, because I know I'm stuck. But that sort of confidence in having enough tools to go into the world as you're doing with your children which, by the way, is so important and beautiful is, in a way, how I model myself. I think, okay, one. Well, I had like three things that went through my head as like a final closing.

Speaker 1:

Closing, I'm very curious as, um, you mentioned that you're 68, you, you're, if, if it's not inappropriate for me to say that you look amazing, I hope you know in in what? In english in england in the old days it was very inappropriate to even talk about a woman's age. Right, I want to talk about my age. Because uh, because, because fear of death and aging are a big problem. You're super energized. We have this um idea in like mainstream society that you kind of retire 60, 65 and you know, basically you're getting yeah, you're just getting ready to die, but it sounds like you've just completed this, what was it called? Mystery School 5 and like you're ready to get going. Can you share a little bit about that experience, because I think that's a real inspiration for other women who are kind of, you know, a little bit younger but hitting that midlife point.

Speaker 1:

Um, one of the things that transference really helps with is breaking down rigid thought patterns and ideas. It does it at a subconscious level. We don't know what we've grown up with, do we? No, no, we look at images as children, our parents, our teachers, all the enculturation. We don't remember it, but it's there somewhere, and one of the things that I suppose Transparency has done for me a lot is to break down some of those patterns and let my soul speak um the energy that it gives me by helping to constantly help me go through a rejuvenation process. I don't mean in some chemical way, it's just snake magic, I'd call it. It's constant, the invention and shedding of skins. I think david bowie was just a wonderful example of that.

Speaker 1:

Um, and the ability to harness the wisdom that you've gained over the years and have the passion to share it, because I think humans are actually hardwired to be loving and caring and giving. I think we are generative beings and when you tap into your core self, it's not a thought, it's just like you've got too much water running through you, no, from source. You want to do something with it. I'm not a gym bunny, I'm very poor at that, but I do get on my yoga mat every morning I have a kriya. So I follow um sad guru quite a lot at the moment. I find him very practical and human and it really supports transference, because they're both quite tantric in nature. In other words, they're're both technologies and help us to break down the karmic patterning in the etheric system that we don't need. That's where we have to go through that and that's the important part. I dance a lot Rock and roll tango, a bit of Latin. Rock and roll tango, a bit of Latin.

Speaker 1:

I don't limit myself in choosing what I want to do because of my age, and I think my spirit and psyche respond to that. Actually, I'm 69, almost so 70. Next year I can claim party time. There will be a big party actually, yeah. Yeah, I bet it's like a.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, those milestones, sometimes people fear them, don't they? And and I'm like I felt when I hit 50, I was like, oh yeah, here we go, suddenly get, it can suddenly get exciting and that just to sort of close on that aging and death. And I don't want to skip them because I think all the changes we experience, that don't feel that they're in our control and they're not because they're live, doing what life does, are reminded that even in this very westernized world, where we can have everything and imagine ourselves immortal in a certain sense, and infallible, that remind us that actually there's something else working away and that's the process of life. And we know it because we're cellular, primal, feral creatures at one level and I believe that in embracing all of ourselves, we I certainly came to an understand that life is a never-ending process. When I leave this physical body, I now absolutely know I'll have left a physical body, but I will still be alive somewhere, and that life itself provides these spirals that go upward. They'll be touched on Chiron, there's another one coming, and if you can ride the wave and make the jump which is death, and there's ways of doing that you know the party gets better because you're not looking at it as though it's something you've got to control.

Speaker 1:

I look at life as though it's something that's dancing with me. I don't control the music, but I know how to dance. I'm a good partner. I love that beautiful. What a great way to end.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, devs. Thank you so much for joining me. That's, it's just been a great conversation. I've really, I've really enjoyed it. I've loved it. I love your energy. You must be an absolute gift to your oh, I hope so.

Speaker 1:

And you're radiant and gorgeous and you know, my wish is that what you do and what I do binds the hearts and minds that are open and looking. Yeah, absolute love. And please, yeah, let me just remind me next year, if you're watching me and I'm in Australia. Yes, yes, I will. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Thank you so much. Have a great evening. Before you go, can I ask you a small favor if you've enjoyed this show or any of the other episodes that you've listened to, then I'd really appreciate it if you took a couple of moments to hit subscribe. This is a great way to increase our listeners and get the word out there about all of the wonderful guests that we've had on the podcast. If you'd like to further support the show, you can buy me a coffee by going to buymeacoffeecom. Forward slash, life, health, the universe. You can find that link in the show notes. Thanks for listening.