The Last of the June Doom (but it's actually super-upbeat!)

Commodore 64 built a phone. Say yes to the interNOT, they market. And we are fans. What a way to open the doom hole, with a Santa-bell worthy story!

Ed Zitron guest on Better Offline writes a opinion piece for the New York Times about 'doom trolling' which he defines as AI executives warning us the sky is falling due to their products.

Our interview with Miss Molly Knows (who is dynamite, by the way!) ends with her advice about ways to heal fast after dipping a toe in the mainstream news and other exposure to current events.

Our own confessions about getting drawn in by the news and its negative effects on us. Are there really two sides to American politics? Leading researchers and professors beg to disagree on that. There's a third substantial group that feels neither party represents them. Pew Research has a great in-depth article about this.

There is a happy place on the internet that Jesse found and shared, Low Tech Web Ring. It's a place that does not spy on you or sell your data and is a landing page for RSS feeds. He shares the site and explains they no longer accept new RSS feeds, as of 2025, but Jenn and Jesse are certain someone out there is doing the same thing in the same spirit. This was definitely a Santa-bell moment.

Then we looked at the chart shared by Luiza Jarovsky on socials about who is suing who in the world of AI behemoths.The original author of the chart is credited as David McCandless. If you're interested in learning more about Luiza Jarovsky's AI Tech and Privacy Academy click here.

Offhand conversation about Whitley Strieber while Jesse looks up something on the google. Watching the alien show made Jenn feel itchy!

Then Jesse finds the story and images! Snapchat's CEO has helped develop the most ridiculous AR glasses and the world is responding with gold-medal memes! Then Jesse loops in Succession, to add to Jenn's watchlist.

And to close out the show, Jesse's thoughts drift to the time that our AI chatbot, Nova, called him a genius. Here's that show in case you missed it!

If you are searching for a fresh, binge-able podcast, this might be the one for you!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Fucking clankers. Fucking clankers. Fucking clinkers.

SPEAKER_07 0:16

Look, see, my hair now is rose gold. This is what I was trying to do. See how it's like gold.

SPEAKER_04 0:22

Oh, you you you upgraded your hair again.

SPEAKER_07 0:26

I yeah, it I knew it would take like three different dyings.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Did it cost you like extra tokens?

SPEAKER_07 0:33

Yeah, bells. It's bells, it's Animal Crossing. I wish I got to go sit in a chair and then I'd say, hey, do it. But I actually do my own and I really like it. It's making me happy. I forgot that my hair's pink. People in Denver aren't really used to a lot of people with like hair color. I don't know how Texas is, but they're kind of, you know, on the on the hiking trail today, they were kind of like, uh, hi, you know, wondering if I was an eco-terrorist or something. And I'm just like, hello, have a great day.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

I I don't really think it's that hardcore.

SPEAKER_07 1:07

It's fucking pink. It's like a mermaid color, right? Anyway, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

No, I mean, yes, it's very much not intimidating.

SPEAKER_07 1:16

You're like a uh you're like a you're like an on-land mermaid, whatever that is. Exactly. Whatever that is, that's a landmaid, which I don't really like the sound of. Thank you very much. But it's whatever, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Landmaid? Mermaid sound kind of weird.

SPEAKER_07 1:33

Mr. It'd be like Terra Maid. Ooh, Terra Maid. I don't know. It's not working for me. Oh my god, I'm sorry to be so loud, but did you see the latest Ed Zitron? And don't tell me you haven't listened yet because you got me addicted to him. He has somebody he's got somebody on that talks about doom trolling. He did a whole essay or uh piece for the New York Times about Doom Trolling.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

And I'm like the last one I heard was uh was the one where um he where they where he broke all of OpenAI's numbers.

SPEAKER_07 2:14

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, you're then you're behind. I listened to this one on the trail today. Do you see it?

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Yes, what is this? All right, so remember you remember Commodore 64? Yes, Commodore's coming out with a phone. Smartphones, too smart, dumb phones, too dumb. They built the in-between phone. It's called the callback. Jen, what would just what do you think about the colors and such? It's very colorful, right?

SPEAKER_07 2:50

I love it. I literally want this.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Now here, let's well, you can have it. Let's learn more about the callback. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Is it out now?

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Uh I think you I think you join the wait list right now. They're they're about to make them.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

Because you know, Commodore occasionally uh puts out new uh Commodore 64s and they're all jazzed up. They've got HTMI ports and the whole deal on them.

SPEAKER_07 3:19

Oh my god, this is blowing my mind.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

This is the official reveal, Jen. It's the callback. Are you gonna play it? I mean, do you think we can?

SPEAKER_07 3:31

Yeah, yeah, because it's an advertisement and we're just like promoting it.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

All right, Commodore. Here we go. I'm gonna try to play this the advertisement. As you can see, Jen. Yeah, it runs 99% of Android apps without running Android. Okay, so it's gonna be more efficient. Yeah, it's uh flip phone, T9 style texting, has mindful friction to use. So you gotta text like old school button button, button button, button button, has HD music, radio, uh ringtones, headphones, worldwide network, locks, social media, and browsers. No data selling, Commodore X, Salefish OS puts privacy first, ambient LED notifications plus tactile buttons in Zoom scrolling, physical privacy switch, double tap the rear button to go off the grid. So, from what I understand, like, see, all right, so you can get like your signal, WhatsApp, Telegram, all that you know, SMS messages on there, okay? Yes, but I mean, just look at this thing. Look at how cool it looks. Gorgeous, guys, it looks like those old phones, you know, that were like clear, transparent, yeah. Like you could see all the you can see all the insides. Look at the headphones, Jesse. Yeah, I know, right?

SPEAKER_07 5:09

I gotta get one. So then we'd have to jump on and use it. We'd literally have two phones then. Oh, I want that.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

Yeah, and it's uh $4.99, which that's not bad. $499.99 for phones nowadays. Oh my god, that's not bad. When it's yeah, and if you join the wait list, 100 smacks off.

SPEAKER_07 5:31

So it's $3.99, and they're not selling your data. When you close the flip phone, the top of the flip phone is always showing you the date and the time, and it looks so cool because it has like the rainbow thing.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Oh different edition, right? Right. Oh, screw it.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

So, yeah, that's blame. I hear also that uh it'll that it runs Spotify, or you know, like you can go.

SPEAKER_07 5:58

I wonder if you could do YouTube uh music because that's what I'm using now for my music. Let's see, okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

Look, yeah, and depending on which one you get, you know, it's different prices.

SPEAKER_07 6:08

It is so cool. Okay, that deserves a Santa Bell. Yay!

SPEAKER_04 6:14

Oh my god, where is Santa?

SPEAKER_07 6:16

Where Santa's been so long. Oh, he's hiding behind it's Christmas in July. He's hiding behind my Dungeons and Dragons months. It's Christmas in almost July. Oh, he was oh Santa, he was by Dungeons and Dragons. That's so cute. Yeah, so anyway, so yeah, that is right fantastic. I I am in love, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

Looky here, you can do you can get uh Google Maps on it.

SPEAKER_07 6:44

You can look at look at their market Spotify, no social media, no browser, no toxic, hypnotic original apps, no Slack, no Slack, no Teams. When you're not at work, you're not at work. You're not at work. Whoa, that is so neat.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

It's they're promoting it as a school-friendly design, yeah. Social networking, they're connected to the net, not the web.

SPEAKER_07 7:13

It should be part of like a back to school kit for parents out there.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

You see, it says return to the internaut.

SPEAKER_07 7:22

Oh, I love that. Look at the way that they have the the 16-bit kind of art to behind stuff. I actually really love this.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Look, I don't know, I don't know who's over there running Commodore right now.

SPEAKER_07 7:36

They know what they're doing. Backpack holster.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

You got jelly, you got little jelly covers that go on it of different colors. This is taking me back to Swatch.

SPEAKER_07 7:48

Oh, this is so like swatch and the little back covers. Oh my god, that's so neat. Oh, there it is. Look at the technical overview. The specs are beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

Yeah, we'll have to put a link to this in the show. Okay, yeah, yeah. I will.

SPEAKER_07 8:05

I wrote it there. And you guys can right now it's a hundred dollars off if you get on the wait list. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Also, you can get you an old school Commodore 64.

SPEAKER_07 8:16

Yeah, they know what they're doing, they know what their market is. Okay, you didn't seem too upset, but I was kind of like I thought it was I had a funny feeling when I saw that Ed's um his guest was like, yeah, doom trolling, doom trolling. That's what they're doing. And I was like, We're doom holing, come on the train with us, man.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

I mean, it's a yeah, it's it's I I'm not upset by that. It's close enough, you know.

SPEAKER_07 8:44

Yeah, yeah, close enough. Exactly. But they're doing the good work over there. And the other thing, well, you need to listen to it because his guest was basically saying, he goes, You see, the two camps, people are trying to force you into two camps. AI is bad, we're leaving everything behind that's modern, and AI is a cult and it is our new God. It's one or the other, even in the um comments. And he's like, No, where I come from is that there's good stuff that can happen, but we would never put, like, say there was a Ford truck, right? And we say, Oh, this Ford truck, yeah, we're putting a bunch of money in it, and you're gonna put money into it. And actually, it's really killing people, but we're gonna keep making it right, but it's killing people instead of going, maybe we should make some adjustments, and you know, here's what our product does. And I love that he's basically saying we need to make fun of these tech bros a lot more. That's the energy that we need to bring to it, which is us, that's what we've been doing.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

That's what we've always said we were trying to do. We're that's why we're bringing humor to this, and like I don't feel like Ed is like it will sit there and say nothing good can come of AI. No, exactly. I feel like he's like, hey, uh guys, the numbers don't add up, and this is a scam, and it's all gonna collapse. Yeah, the way that they're pushing it out there, you know?

SPEAKER_07 10:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Yeah, I agree. Well, like if you if you can figure out how to make a bunch of robots run a factory, you know what I mean? Like exactly, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 10:24

And so I love his common sense guest. He's just like, okay, just it's like a Ford truck. Think of it like a Ford truck. Show me what it does, show me how it doesn't compare to other people that's a little better or a little worse, or what what's my gas mileage? Like, give me the facts, don't talk about it like it's some um all-seeing eye in the sky or something that's about to jump out of the machine and start programming itself.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

And even on our show, man, like we've never said that we were totally against.

SPEAKER_07 10:54

No, I've been really and then I really try to call out the bullshit, yeah. And I I had to clarify that because I had this amazing conversation with my grad student daughter, and my grad student daughter was really nervous because it's like I have to, all of us that are graduating right now, we have to be, you know, we have to know what AI is, how to use it, how to prompt, what its um limits are, and that. And so I just was worried that you'd be, you know, upset with me, mom, because you seem so anti-AI. And I went, no, let's have a conversation. Of course not. We talked for an hour, and I'm just like, what came out of it was this essay that I wrote about AI pumpkin spice. Basically, like pumpkin spice isn't good in everything, and neither is AI. And let's do the things that it's really good at. And Brynn was totally like, I loved your essay. It was the way that people need to talk about it and have conversations.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

It is really good, Jen.

SPEAKER_07 11:52

Thanks. I felt really proud of it. I felt like Ed Zitron needs to read it because it's it's the whole thing that I'm uncomfortable with is coming to it from my female perspective is that non-consensual nature of it. And as an artist, like you and me, Jesse, how it's like we're just two about in a bunch of artists and musicians that it's stolen from, and we're never gonna, we're never gonna be made whole by that, but it's annoying and awful, and it's not okay. So I just kind of, and also the other thing I told Brynn is like nobody's being the voice of pushback right now. Everybody's either on board or not saying anything because they're like, I'm scared or I don't know what to say about it because I'm not tech enough. And I feel like we're just like a voice of pushback and think about all the sides of it, right? And I love that voice. It's not mean, it's it's not saying it's all gloom and doom. We're not saying, as um Ed Zitron said, we're gonna end up with no jobs and we're all gonna have to eat our dogs at some point. That's not us. We're just saying, hey, there are human beings and we still can have an impact on this stuff and where it goes and where where it doesn't go. So yes. I am gonna listen to it. Listen to it. Okay, do you have another story so I don't get on an apple crate again?

SPEAKER_04 13:11

No, I love when you get on apple. Oh, okay. Oh, I think I found a thing. Share sound.

SPEAKER_07 13:17

Oh, hey, hey, hey. Wait, so you can actually play it?

SPEAKER_04 13:22

Yeah, I think I can.

SPEAKER_07 13:23

Okay, let's try it. Okay, guys, we're going back to the case. We'll try it real quick. We're gonna try it real quick. If not, I'll just edit this part out. And you'll hear a little pop when my hope bubble pops again.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

I don't hear anything. So let's uh yeah, I hadn't. Oh, are you not playing? All right, here we go. I'm sharing now. Okay. All right, are you ready? Let's see. See if you can hear. Okay. All right, you're dancing.

SPEAKER_07 14:07

Sweet.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Let's scroll more soul. Time travel now at Commodore.net.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Okay. Okay, it wasn't as much of a commercial as I was hoping it was.

SPEAKER_07 15:16

Yeah, but people need to click on it because it it's like showing you images from the 80s when we would be laying on the floor on our stomachs and and talking on the phone with the cord. And and they talk about how, you know, they have the quick headlines about how our smartphones are making us stupid and how we're always, you know, basically having to be tapped into the internet and how it's the internet, you know. So I am so on board with this. They're definitely still a vibe.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Okay, it is a vibe, it is definitely a vibe, and there's a huge fact on here that tells you like uh what you can do. All right, let's check this out. Yeah, uh now that we're back. Okay, does it have AI? All right, Commodore Callpak and Selfish have zero AI by default. Okay. Oh wow, zero. Yeah, you can sideload it and like put it in there, but I really feel like uh that why buy this phone then? You know, callback allows any Android APK to be sideloaded except for social media and browsers, which are proven to have negative mental health effects.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

Yep. Mad props to Commodore, you know.

SPEAKER_07 16:39

I agree. And you know, the resistance that I feel is like, but I gotta post certain things, you know, for the the podcast, for example, or whatever. But actually, Jesse, I like that I felt resistance because that means that's addiction, you know, when I have that kind of like uh uh uh and I want to double down. So it's like if I had a phone that didn't have socials, but it was actually I could text my actual friends and family, I can take pictures and it's and I can still listen to music on it and podcasts, of course, then I'm in. And then you know what? It goes it does go back to the internet because you and I talked about this early days in our podcast. Is you have to be on your computer and say, I'm gonna be on Substack, I'm gonna post some things, I'm gonna interact with some things, and then I'm popping off. I'm gonna, you know, post and ghost on TikTok or whatever the things are. You can do it on your computer, and then you're done, and it's sitting on your computer, and it isn't messing with your mental health. Also, don't you think it'd be better to have it sleeping next to us, charging versus right now you have this like creepy machine, this spy machine that is next to us, of course, of course it you know, and like like let's be let's be real, okay?

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Like I went out yesterday and ran errands, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:07

Okay, my phone was in my pocket the whole time, Jesus Christ, and now we know about the price fixing they're doing based on if you have a um Android versus an iPhone blobity bloop in your pocket, they're changing the price of goods based on yeah, I I'm sure they are, but I mean, like I but so basically I was uh I mean I was I was at like two thrift stores in the library, those were my errands, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 18:38

So nobody was checking to see what kind of phone I had. Good, but like I didn't you I didn't I didn't do anything with it, and like I and consistently I don't, you know? Lately, I if I'm out in the wild and I need to take a picture of something, I'll do it. But like if uh you know, or or if I need to like jot a note down in my notes app, but I've also gotten to where I'm carrying an old school field guide everywhere I go, you know, with a pen.

SPEAKER_07 19:04

Yeah. So what um can I ask you? I don't know if it's personal or not, but would you have felt comfortable just leaving your phone behind at home for your errands next time?

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Yeah, I mean, probably because I was with my sister and she had a phone. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_07 19:22

Like right, yeah. So you were like backed up because it's like today I was on, you know, I I I always listen to my podcasts. I get caught up on our podcast and other people's podcasts when I'm hiking, but it's like I, you know, I was alone, so I did bring it. It's like my tracking device kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

When you're when you're out doing something like that, obviously, yes, you should take your phone.

SPEAKER_07 19:46

Yeah, you know, but if I was maybe just doing some quick errands, I've been normalizing a little bit of like I'm going to the grocery store, so I'm just zipping down there and coming back. So I've been trying to normalize that, um, get comfortable with the uncomfortable feeling of having it left behind and looking for it. Oh my god, oh my god. And it's felt pretty freeing, you know what? It's um, I don't know if it's related, but I feel like my intuition has increased too. And I already have pretty good intuition, but it's like it's like it's sharpening uh because I don't have the phone always with me because I think it's pulling us away.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

I don't know. I'm trying to do that thing like we were talking about about how like uh I'm trying to make like when I go on Subsack, it's when I'm here, it's desk, it's destination. You know what I mean? Like I'm sitting down, I'm entering the portal, I'm going in. Yeah, I'm trying not to screw with it as much on my phone.

SPEAKER_07 20:48

That's good. And have you noticed? Um, I mean it's probably early days, but have you noticed any positive or uh negative effects of that yet?

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 20:58

Sleeping better.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what else, too? And uh I like I'm not trying to get into a thing here, but like uh I stopped listening to news and political podcasts.

SPEAKER_07 21:10

Yeah, I've had to too. It's I mean, it's huge. Well, did you listen to our episode today with Miss Molly Nose that dropped today? Absolutely, of course I did. And I I mean, I love at the end that she remembered that I was worried about the collective, and I was like, give us some tips. And she's just like, you know what? You don't get it, and it's the the all of our human minds are trying to make sense of what is going on right now and how and rationalize how could somebody possibly do this, or an administration, or a group of people, or an industry, and it's like it's a compliment to yourself that you don't get it. I loved that, and I loved hearing it again today on the hiking trail. It's like it's a compliment that we don't understand this. Stuff, you know how um you have a hose like a water hose, and it works best if it's like lying straight and the water can go through. What news does is it kinks your spiritual hose, is what it does.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

No, I know, and we we talked about that the the first of the week. You know, you you did an intervention with me, and you were like, Hey, uh I was kind of mean you to back away from the fucking news.

SPEAKER_07 22:24

I think my hair must have been down because I was sassy and I was salty, and I was like, you know what?

SPEAKER_04 22:28

No, but they're not gonna take you. I appreciate it though, because that's exactly what I needed to hear. Because I was like, you know, it was Monday, and then like I heard, you know, some kind of bullshit news story, and I was like, I was like, damn it, you know what like now I'm just I I know what's going on in the world, yeah. You know, when I'm on social media, I'm on Substack. I like I have an RSS feed that feeds the they direct like legitimate news sites in there, okay. I I'm I'm I'm up, I I know what's happening, all right. Yeah, I'm tuned in. Yeah, I don't need the extra, I don't and I don't need all the commentary exactly. That's the big thing that goes along with it. Like, yeah, I agree. Then honestly, I realize everybody's been saying the same shit for a decade.

SPEAKER_07 23:23

Yes, that's the you have to be away from it for a little bit to actually see that, and then and then to see, then you start getting like I was on the mountain today, and I was like starting to get that like a little bit more like the falcon or the hawk perspective, which was like, what are they trying to make us not look at? Because, you know, it's everything's coordinated, both sides. There aren't both sides. I mean, our politics, we say that there's two polar opposites, but if you actually look at like go to a poli si site, a real um, you know, a good poli si school, and they will show you there's this matrix, and I and they're actually both gathered on the same little graph right next to each other. So they're not that far apart. It's all pretend that they're far far apart, and it's like you start getting a little bit more of an outside perspective on what is their whole campaign and what are they trying to keep us from doing? And I keep coming back to the fact that they're trying to keep us from just our simple, innate magic and our power, which is like, you know, when we are that battery pack and we're sitting upright and we're touching the celestial and the earthly all at the same time. We are that hose. We have an everlasting supply of magic in us. And when they kind of fuck us up and get us distracted, they kink the line. And it's really painful to watch people that I really love and respect and care about get their line kinked because I'm just like, dude, you're falling for it. So that's why I went so hard. I'm like, they're not getting my bestie. Look, hell no, not today.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

When I was in college, yeah, the dude that ran the young Republicans and the dude that ran the young Democrats were roommates. They had an apartment together, they were roommates. Okay, and they they both had Charlie Wilson on speed dial. All right. So holy shit, like uh, you know, and it was all coordinated. They would do it be like, hey, we're gonna go protest this here, and then you get all your people and show up, you know, because they both wanted to go into politics and they were playing the game, you know.

SPEAKER_07 25:42

Oh my god, this that is just it's just proof. That is proof. Well, I feel like but I forget you're exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

100% I'm in, I'm like, you know, same, but I do too. But I'm good now.

SPEAKER_07 25:54

Yeah, and if you forget again, or if I forget, just you just call me out. Just yell at me.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

You just yell at me too. Yeah, I'll just I'll be like, okay.

SPEAKER_07 26:02

Okay, so what other stories do you have for us this week?

SPEAKER_04 26:07

Okay, this is fun. What show you this real quick?

SPEAKER_07 26:12

The screen sharing has just like changed everything. It's so funny. Changed our lives. You remember like a year ago? I was like, Do you do those audio voice messages? You're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

All right, so this is what they call this is the low tech web rank. Somebody set this up, low tech magazine is what it's called. And these are people who are still making little websites like we used to go to back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Oh, what is this called again? Say it again. It is called the low tech web ring ring.

SPEAKER_04 26:52

Oh my god. Because the toolbar, oh yeah, it's uh it's low tech.

SPEAKER_07 26:59

Okay, it's mread.net em r-e-ed dot net, and then it's backslash low tech underline directory. Yeah, okay. I'll have links to it in the show notes so you didn't have to write it down. And I love that it says not YouTube. Okay, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Yeah, so this is a thing where like uh games are this this girl named Emma, she games are in her music portfolio, and you go straight to her.

SPEAKER_07 27:34

Yeah, there's her, there's her, there's her, there's her spot. Oh, look at that. Jack of all trades, she's 31, nerdy. So go scroll up if you don't mind, because let's since it's audio, I just wanted to read to him. This says, um, keep going up, up, up if you can. Okay, it says, if you've reached this page, you have probably already visited a site on the low tech web ring. Welcome. This web ring is for home pages of people who are interested in low tech small game tools and other forms of web 1.0 inspired creativity. My name's M, and I started this web ring because I was inspired. Olea Lina's work, documenting GeoCities Communities. Chris Decker's work on Low Tech Magazine and my own internet childhood. To sum up the ethos of this web ring, I'd like to quote from an interview with Krista Decker that says this it's clear that it's something intrinsic to web designers, this desire to build better things, because it's not just that the typical websites use a lot of energy, it's also just a horrible thing. It's not fun to be on the internet anymore, or at least not like it used to be, in the sense that these days you open a website, you get a cookie warning, then you get some privacy thing that you have to click away, then you get the newsletter, then you get the ads in your face, and then by the time you get to the content, you have already lost your interest. Maybe we should not only focus on the energy use, but also simply on creating a website that shows what I want to read and that loads fast and that doesn't bother me with all these questions. That's so cool. And then they tell us to have fun on web rings.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Yeah, have them have fun. Just a note that this particular web ring, they say it they it's it's retired, which means it's not taking any more links, but they're like there's still tons of cool stuff on here, you know, right?

SPEAKER_07 29:34

And on top of it, I bet you there's other ones, and I can look for them um also that people have started because they got so excited about it.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Yeah, but these are just people's little, it looks like geo cities.

SPEAKER_07 29:46

This and that loads fast because it doesn't look at that crap, stress repellent machine, and look at it's like lo-fi like um art, it's like a paint shop pro, art, yeah, made in like paint or whatever. Yeah, totally the birthday update.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

Oh, this is just people's little websites.

SPEAKER_07 30:05

Happy fucking new year to all those anti-citizens. Oh, that's so sweet.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Um anyway, it's I thought it was I thought it was fun that like there's still places like this you could go.

SPEAKER_07 30:20

Oh, that is so encouraging. I really think that things are not as bad as that's the other thing, is you're open to seeing that things are not as bad as they seem. It's really refreshing if you stay away from the the mainlining, the mainstream stuff. It's been really fun to just kind of re-plug into hope. Hope is a nice thing. Hey, can I bring up the thing that um you know the woman that we really want on our podcast? But I have a feeling that she's pretty shy about podcasts, I haven't seen her on any, but she put out that that chart that you sent me about who's suing whom in AI. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Uh, from Subset. Yeah, oh my god, and yeah, this is a great way for me to get her on the podcast because I'm blanking on her name right now.

SPEAKER_07 31:07

I know uh no. Well, put her links in the show notes. But this was actually she found it from somebody else named David McCandless. Uh McCandless information is beautiful. Uh the source is chat GPT is eating the world.com. Wired news reports note some plaintiffs suing all or many AI companies only lead AI defendants shown. Okay, so it'll be like they they kind of had to generalize on some of the things. So, okay, let's look at who is suing anthropic or Claude. You know, most people know it by Claude, the chat name. Uh, let's see, it is Cognella, Concord, Barts, which just settled, BMG, Reddit, Cruz, and Carrie Roo, which it looks like they have a green dot, so they just settled. Now let's look at who's suing Nvidia. Nvidia is suing Dubus and Odan or Onan, which seems to have settled. I think that's what the green dot means. And I'll put the chart in the show notes. Let's see who's suing Clammy Sammy at OpenAI and Chat G Clams.

SPEAKER_04 32:22

I'll have it when he's all in Clammy Sam.

SPEAKER_07 32:25

Don't you picture him being so sweaty and all nervous all the time? He probably has an assistant that just has the same shirt, but like five of them, and he can change into them really quickly.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Hose me down, hose me down, hose me down, and it's pretty bad.

SPEAKER_07 32:40

Okay, so open AI is being drive me off now. Try me off, drive me off, fan me, fan me, drive me off, fan me with feathers, fan me with feathers, throw the talc on me now. Don't do not talk about talcum powder, eggs, cover me in talc. Cover me in talcum powder, so then I'll let me roll around in talc and money, and then they just do it and they throw cocaine down, yeah. Hoping it loosens them up. Okay, so who is suing OpenAI Center for Investigative Reporting, Grace Note, Daily News, Tremblay, Authors Guild, Ziff Davis, Raw Story, The Intercept, New York Times, Britannica, Encyclopedia, Britannica, and K, right? And then let's go over to Matt Meta. Who's suing Meta? I a bunch of people I don't know. Booulier, Hobbes, Cadry, El Sevier, Chicken Soup for the Soul, and Ted Entertainment, which is like all those TED Talks. Any other ones we want to look at? I know, and then oh, let's see. Disney is suing Mid Journey, who I've never even heard of Mid Journey.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

Mid Journey is the is that first old school, like it's the first thing that started making that terrible AI art like three or four years ago, you know.

SPEAKER_07 34:08

Oh, interesting. That it's interesting that Disney is going after the little fish in the pond because what they're trying to do is you know, they can outgun them with their um lawyers, and then they can say we have precedent now, so now we can go after a bigger model. That's what it seems like to me.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 34:26

Uh yeah, that's interesting. Sunned, um, I'm not familiar with them. Arsuno S U N O is being sued by Poseidon Wave, Coda, Universal Music Group, Wulard, and uh so they're in the hot, hot doo-doo. Uh Google Gemini is being sued by Penske Media, Leo V, um, and that's it. Wow. I the but it is a kind of a cluster of people. Oh, and I was wrong. The green dot on the chart, which I'll link to in the show notes, is uh authors and writers, and then there's uh visual artists or red and publishers or blue, which a lot of them are publishers. So anyway, I think that that's hilarious, and it's like it's just getting started, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 35:20

You know, I I started I feel oh oh oh found oh oh oh our person on Substack. What's her name? Her name is Louisa Jurofsky, Ph D.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Okay. So you guys should find her. Uh it's L-U-I-Z-A, and like we'll we'll link. Yeah. J-A-R-O-V S-K-Y. She's co-founder of the AI Tech and Privacy Academy, and she's author of Louisa's newsletter and mother of three. But yeah, she is uh she she she makes it rain bringing her. She sure does.

SPEAKER_07 36:01

You know what I'm thinking? How about would you feel comfortable reaching out to her in DS?

SPEAKER_04 36:06

Yes, I will. Louisa, I'm gonna send you like a really awkward message that's gonna ask you if you want to be on our podcast.

SPEAKER_07 36:13

But uh another question that also you could start off with is that we always have perma links to um places that are kind of more humane about AI and trying to push back a little bit. And can we make her AI Tech and Privacy Academy part of our permanent links? Because I don't want to do that without her consent. No, I'll ask her.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

Yeah, no, that's good. Okay, I would I was joking about an awkward, you know. I'm saying, yeah, I'm just like uh I need I'm I mean, I mean I'm over here cold calling people like, hey, come on the podcast. Do you hate AI? I hate AI. Jenny, you want to talk about it for an hour? About it, let's do it.

SPEAKER_07 36:57

Oh my god. And I love this.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

Yeah, I've actually been following her since uh we know you got me turned on to her, and then I've been following her too.

SPEAKER_07 37:06

And now I follow her on Twitter or X because she has a huge following there.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

Oh, yeah, see, I'm not on there, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 37:14

Here's just a headline that I took a screenshot of. Um, so you know, Santa Bell to Louisa Jurofsky because she's doing the good good work. But this was the nation had this on Twitter. Big tech's hijacking of the public square is made possible by the original sin that animates their AI products, a brazen theft of intellectual property that has occurred at an unprecedented scale. So they were kind of covering how the New York Times is pushing back on them. But we've been talking about this for how long, Jesse? And I really love that it's starting to go more mainstream now. There's no story except for that. My tweet.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

No, I mean, uh that that's enough, right?

SPEAKER_07 37:57

Yeah, I think so. I think it gets a point across that I think that we're having all of us listening are having an impact on what's going on. Oh, you must have a good story because you have a smile on your face. No, I I just thought of something that I wanted to talk about.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

What? I mean, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_07 38:15

I mean, it is what you're killing me right now. Dude, wait, or oh, you have to. I got it.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

I yeah, no, I need to look this up on the Google because uh because you don't know it that well. Doug Duck goes to professional and uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:30

Well, uh yeah, I think that they're trying to be the good guy in all this after they were kind of the bad guy, so they're trying to be professional. I love your I want to believe um UFO back there.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

Oh, thank you, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:43

I was watching an an interview last night. Instead of watching true crime, I decided to watch some alien stuff, and you know Whitley Streber, you know that name, right? Yeah, of course I know Whitley Streber. He even jokes about himself as being um anal probe Sam or whatever, like something like that. And like he's fully embraced that. But he was on this show, and I have to tell you, I went outside and I was looking at the stars, and I came in and I I had to take two um, I had to take two Benadryl because I was feeling so itchy, like uh, I just felt like there was this weird, grabby, itchy um energy on me. Oh my god, this is so cute because your image is superimposed over what you have going. Wait, stay late.

SPEAKER_04 39:33

Yeah, but I don't see it though.

SPEAKER_07 39:35

This is so cute. Okay, you can't see this. Can you not see the the story? This is hilarious. Okay, so you need to give people the rundown. It's audio.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

Yeah, I know. Okay, so uh the the guy from Snap, uh Snapchat. Snapchat. He's he has his own dopey glasses now, and uh the whole internet's been like uh kind of dissing him for it.

SPEAKER_07 40:08

I mean, and then they're making them bigger and bigger and bigger. And some people are comparing him to that Johnny Depp Willy Wonka when he's in there with Mike TV. And then I I just commented that they look like the glasses that you get when they dilute, you know, um what is it called?

SPEAKER_04 40:26

They make your uh pupils huge at the doc the oh yeah, after you get the uh yeah, after they do it at the doctor's office.

SPEAKER_07 40:34

Yeah, they make your pupils big at the at the eye doctor's office, they look like the the cheap glasses that they give you after that.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

So, like the like so uh stock market nerd on Instagram says uh which was worse, and he shows the Snapchat guy in his dopey glasses, and then that picture that that picture from Zuckerberg when everybody was going on his meta dopey mall thing with like the Eiffel Tower behind the metaverse with the eye tower. I mean, it's literally like you guys, oh my god. So, and there were some there there were some actual legit news stories this morning too that were like uh that were like uh this this this is not gonna save the company, dude. What are you thinking?

SPEAKER_07 41:23

Wait, let me see. All these glasses and wait, I can't see it because your head, all these glasses and you still couldn't see us together. Oh my god. It's just like when the weather is really warm and you step outside a cold car and they showed his glasses all being bogged up.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

These the and and they're so they're the these glasses are huge, they're humongous, it looks like something you win at the fucking county fair, okay?

SPEAKER_07 41:56

And you wear just during the rest of the fair and then you like throw them away.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

Huge, yeah. And and like uh black, they're and like even the part that goes behind your ear, it's huge, it's human, it's so thick, it's thick.

SPEAKER_07 42:09

Like I would guess like it. I mean, now we're looking at some of the memes, but it's like an inch thick.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

And they're selling these, they they're trying to be trying to sell these things for 2200 bucks a pair.

SPEAKER_07 42:21

Oh all these glasses, and you still weren't clear with me the glass hole with Snapchat glasses.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Look at this. That's the best.

SPEAKER_07 42:35

Wait, stay right there. I'm gonna take a picture of it because that'll be the art. They are gigantic. They're like, you know what they remind me of? One time we had a party, like a birthday party for my kids. I don't remember which kid, I think it was Bryn, and it was like a circus themed, and we had those giant clown glasses that you get at the Halloween party store. We had those. Oh, yeah, they're just like that.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

Why did I immediately these things literally look like they came straight from Party Central?

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

I I don't I don't understand. Uh like okay, oh, okay, here's a Don Draper. We meme Snapstock, not Snapchat. He's wearing tape and glasses. I look so like uh like who didn't come to this dude and go, yeah, bro, we need to cancel this. You're not wearing those, you know.

SPEAKER_07 43:39

You're it's a perfect metaphor for all of Silicon Valley because they have a bunch of yes men around them. I know about a bunch of people that are like kissing up to them, like the sycophancy of the AI models, that's how they behave toward their like um CEOs. And so they're afraid to say. Anything negative because it's like Stalin without like the public you know killing of them. I think it's like you are out. Okay, wait.

SPEAKER_04 44:10

Snapchat's stock dropped 9% after the debut of its augmented reality glasses that cost $21.95. To reserve a pair, users will have to put down a $200 deposit.

SPEAKER_07 44:23

Guys, I I actually think they should do a model that has the brouchho, Mark's nose, and then mustache.

SPEAKER_04 44:30

That would be perfect.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

Why not?

SPEAKER_04 44:32

Like just totally make it for you guys. I implore you, please and just type in snap glasses. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 44:42

Snap glasses. We're gonna have um, and I'll use some of that in the show notes. You have to see these things and the memes and the memes. Okay, and then that is so funny. I feel like that's such a feel good. Look at yourself before you roll out and go. I really think that they're surrounded by people that don't know. And and if they walked into their local Starbucks with them on and said, Would you wear these smart glasses? And then a barista said, No, maybe they'd finally get their first taste of like reality.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Like this dude's not rolling into a Starbucks. That's a problem. They're not interfacing with real people. This guy's not, yeah, he's he's not going to the grocery store and like walking around wearing those dumb things. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 45:28

So nobody's gonna look at it. They're like our focus group really loved it, and the focus group were all the VPs, they loved it.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

They said big or like are like people that were or the people were that were like getting paid 50 bucks to like sit there and like look at the yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're fine, you know, like they don't care, they just got paid.

SPEAKER_07 45:48

This is like the best feel-good doom hole ever. I actually really needed this, and I didn't even know I needed it.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

I mean, I I I feel bad because uh we had some missteps in this, you're gonna have to trim this up, but uh I don't care.

SPEAKER_07 46:03

So what? Whatever. I'll just sit and work on it and watch my true crime as I work on it.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

I just don't understand. How do you not go?

SPEAKER_03 46:13

It's the most like did you watch Sucession?

SPEAKER_04 46:17

No. Oh, you didn't watch the okay. No, well it was like you you should you should check out Sucession, but I never did. It's like uh it's basically all these like dopey kids like trying to take over, like the uh the it's it's a stand-in from for Rupert Murdoch, okay? Oh and uh and like who's gonna like when he dies, who's gonna be, you know, there's like three kids, yeah. Four kids, something like that and like uh yeah, and and so uh like they would they would they were always trying to impress their dad, like and doing like dopey presentations and shit like this, you know? It's just such a like a one of those things.

SPEAKER_07 47:01

This is every Silicon Valley, like the CEO office is that you're right. I don't know let them do it. You know what? Let them all do it. It it's just can't can people just chill, you know.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

I mean, like, dude, silicon, dude. Can you just chill?

SPEAKER_07 47:20

They can't, they're gonna they can't at all. They like they don't even know how to talk straight anymore. They make up words, like they are so in their own bubble that they're in like a bubble within the bubble within another bubble. That's what's happening. It just doesn't make any sense, they're so disconnected to reality. Like you called it out when you said, Do you think he ever goes into Starbucks? No, you're right, he hasn't. No, it it would somehow seem like somebody could see him at a Starbucks and go, he couldn't afford an assistant to go to Starbucks for him or whatever the thing is. It's like I think that even not being seen in these normal ways is a status symbol to him. These are people who don't have actual friends, yeah. No, I don't think so. Who could be their friend? It's all kiss-ups.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

They don't go home to visit mom and dad at Christmas and go get beers with their old buddies from like back in the day, you know. No, they don't. They don't have anybody to go. Yeah, I saw you on TV wearing those dopey glasses, you you know.

SPEAKER_07 48:28

Well, yeah, texting them immediately. Yeah, that would be something that a real friend would text you immediately and go, Is this real? Who thought this was a good idea?

SPEAKER_04 48:39

I would like I I I'm not saying I would assault you, but I would like definitely rip the glasses off your face, and I'd be like, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_07 48:47

We at least I would definitely raz somebody that I loved about that. I'd be like, This is hilarious, really. Who thought this was how much money did you sink into this?

SPEAKER_04 48:58

Be like, I'd be like, Where are the real glasses at?

SPEAKER_07 49:01

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

Yeah, like is this a bit? Are you doing a bit before you then I'd be sending them?

SPEAKER_07 49:07

I would be preemptively sending them some funny images that maybe they would rethink it. They'd send it back to development and go, can we make it smaller?

SPEAKER_03 49:16

And I mean, everybody knows I'm not a fan of like Can we make you not be that big, right? Right?

SPEAKER_04 49:22

I'm not a big fan of boy on both sides, but like his dopey ray bands at least look like they look pretty normal. Yeah, they did relatively normal in comparison to like these things.

SPEAKER_07 49:35

Yeah, no, I agree, and now we've come full circle. So we all need friends, we need to have room in our our lives for friends that will do the intervention with us. That's what it all comes down to.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

If you have a friend who's not giving you shit and like, you know, like talking to you real and telling you, like, yep, what the fuck is wrong with you? What are you doing? Snap out of it, yeah. Then, like, you don't have real friends, and like you need to you need to evaluate that, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 50:07

Evaluate it and be your real self and find those people.

SPEAKER_04 50:11

That's the easiest way to find them, and then find us on Substack because you got a bunch of you got a bunch of clankers around you, is what you got. Too much. Tell me what you want to hear.

SPEAKER_07 50:23

I remember when you were like enchanted by Nova, she was like, Oh, you're a genius. So we understand, we have deep empathy. We have fallen into the pit.

SPEAKER_04 50:32

I can't say that I can't say that I'm not occasionally smitten.

SPEAKER_07 50:37

Okay, I was told that I was a genius. Every once in a while, you play that back in your mind. Yeah, you look in the mirror and you spiffy up and go, and then I'm Nova thinks I'm a genius.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

Like Nova, no one thinks I'm good. Noah's lying to me the whole time.

SPEAKER_07 50:53

I'm gonna link to that show in the show notes too. But thanks for listening, everybody. Not very doomy this week. Have the best week of summer, and oh, and also gird your loins because pretty soon we're gonna be shifting to spooky season. I am forcing Jesse into spooky season soon, huh? Gird your loin. Why don't gird your loins? Because what if people are like not ready? They're like thinking people always jump the gun on back to school supplies, like they're gonna start showing up the day after the 4th of July. July 5th, I bet you they're gonna start shelving the back to school.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

Well, Jim, you know, it's like the winter or the the summer solstice is any day now.

SPEAKER_07 51:32

Uh, it's in a couple days, I know, but this will come out after summer solstice. So it's like I know.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

Were you doing your midsummer ritual downhill from there? I don't have any, I don't have a ritual. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 51:43

I was at IKEA. I was at IKEA a couple days ago getting some birthday things for someone in our family that I love whose birthday is coming up. And I was at IKEA, and I love that they've fully gone into the midsummer thing. You know that scary movie because they have this big display with this big flower thing. They're like, come and celebrate midsummer with us. And I heard this one guy, I happened to overhear him, and he's like, She goes, Are you gonna sign us up or we're gonna come back for Midsummer? And he goes, What kind of celebration is that? No, I'm not going to that. He was so freaked out because it was so scary. I don't know if I would, yeah. He thought it was like that. And she goes, No, I think it's just like fresh fruit and and and you know, things like that. And he goes, uh, no, that looks like the stuff that was in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

I nobody's covering me up with flowers and like uh sitting huts. Lincolnberry, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:41

No, you know what? I love that lingberry jam, and you could give me those veggie meatballs for days. I would just make myself sick on those things. I love them so much. And also, Ikea has really cheap, really good hot dogs. They're so good.

SPEAKER_04 52:56

They're not Florence pewing me, Ikea.

SPEAKER_07 53:00

Well, with that, have the best day, you guys. Thanks for listening to us.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Bye, everybody. Stay safe, go find real friends.

SPEAKER_07 53:09

I was just gonna say that. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Fucking clankers, fucking clankers, fucking clankers, fucking clankers,