Don Cherry's son talks about his dad, ‘you people’ and Ron MacLean

Even at 92 years old, Don Cherry is never far from the headlines.

Back in February, the longtime co-host of “Coach’s Corner” was appointed to the Order of Ontario. A month later, a Conservative MP started a push to honour Cherry with the Order of Canada — a movement that continues to gain steam.

And now there’s a new book out, authored by Cherry’s late daughter, Cindy, who passed away unexpectedly in 2024. The book — The Don Cherry Story: Part II — is the second instalment of a two-book series that she began writing before she passed away.

Joining us on this week’s episode of Village Media’s Closer Look podcast is Tim Cherry, Cindy’s little brother and Don’s son.

Our conversation covers a lot of ice, including Don Cherry’s infamous “you people” poppy rant, his controversial firing after nearly four decades on the air, and why Grapes didn’t simply apologize for a comment that stung a lot of people, including many who served in the Canadian Forces.

Tim also fills us in on his dad’s health, if their popular podcast is ever coming back, and why — unlike so many people — he doesn’t blame Ron MacLean for everything that happened.

Love or hate Don Cherry, this episode is a must-watch.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

When my wife and I watched it, we both kind of went, ooh, like, because I I think like that was to me, that was the height of the cancel culture when he said that. Like that was the apex of it. And I thought, uh oh, dad might get in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Welcome back to Closer Look Across the Village Media Network and wherever you get your favorite podcast on this Sunday morning, the 10th day of May. Welcome to the show. I'm Scott Stexmith with Michael Friscolanti, our editor-in-chief. Thumbs up. More on that in a sec. Uh Zach Trunzo is here. Uh, one guy uh who was known right across uh the country, coast to coast to coast, for always giving a thumbs up was Don Cherry. In fact, with the hockey playoffs on right now. I don't know about you, but every time the first intermission rolls around, a part of me is still waiting for Ron and Don to come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

It's what's been six years since Don Cherry was on Coach's Corner. And it does, it was definitely I wasn't a huge hockey fan growing up, but I always, if I was home on Saturday night, I would stop and and watch Coach's Corner because it was super entertaining.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

It was. And the thing about Coach's Corner was you didn't have to be a hockey fan. No. But it's like the nation came to a standstill for eight or ten minutes um every Saturday night. Uh, and then of course we know uh we know what happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yeah, and I think it's fair to say that it that during those almost 40 years of the two were together, it was a it was a part of our culture in Canada. It was part of the culture watching Ron and Don. They were kind of a foil uh, you know, Ron was Don's foil. Um and then what happened in November of 2019? Um I remember watching that episode of I was watching that and I kind of cringed when he said it because it just didn't seem didn't seem right what he said. And I and I I assumed there would be some blowback, and there was. Yeah. And you know, it's it's crazy because six years later, people still have very heated opinions on this, right? Um Don Cherry clearly said something that upset a lot of people in Canada, and there's a lot of people that think he didn't say anything that upset a lot of people in Canada. And you're kind of where you are on that spectrum as what you believe, right? I I just had a conversation with about a friend a couple months ago who was talking about it, and they still have strong opinions about it. Um but it's been Cherry's back in the news because he's getting the Order of Ontario, I believe. Yes, the premiere, as uh Doug Ford announced he's getting that. And there's a new book out.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

Uh there is. Uh and it's it's a a very uh interesting story. So uh Don's daughter, Cindy, passed away in July of 2024, units unexpectedly. Uh and she had written a book uh about her dad, family, hockey night in Canada, the whole thing. Part one was released, but now since her passing, uh the estate, driven largely by her son Dell, have decided to release part two, which just came out. So they kind of finished it up for her. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, it's a great show. So that that that that part two just came out. Just came out uh earlier this month, and uh we're gonna uh have a wonderful discussion uh today with a guy that we've been trying to get on this show uh for some time uh to talk about uh his dad, uh, and that's uh Tim Cherry, the son of Don. For decades, Don Cherry was one of the most recognizable voices in Canada. Loud jackets, louder opinions, and a Saturday night institution that became part of the fabric of this country. Now, through the words of Tim Cherry's late sister Cindy, another part of Don's story is being told through the new book, The Don Cherry Story Part Two. It pulls back the curtain on Cherry, the father, the husband, the icon, and the fallout from the moment Coach's Corner came to an abrupt and controversial end. Don't son Tim Cherry joins us to talk about his dad and, of course, the book. Uh, Tim, I know we've been uh trying to set this up for a very long time. I'm glad we could finally get it done. Welcome to Closer Look.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

Well, thanks very much for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

All right, uh, Tim, we'll get into the uh into the book and uh your dad and Coach's corner and all that stuff, but I want to start with uh with your sister Cindy, who unexpectedly passed away uh in July of 2024. Uh what can you tell us about her and and certainly what she meant to you?

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Uh well, you know, Cindy was uh uh uh in my time of need, when I was 13 years old, uh I had uh kidney problems and I was uh my kidneys failed and I was on dialysis. Um this is when we were in uh living in Boston at the time, and uh Cindy donated her kidney to me and uh and uh knock on wood. It's been uh it's been going great ever since. So when people say, well, a part of her lives within you within you, that's absolutely true. Part of her does live within me. And uh, you know, she was uh a person that really uh gave back um when my mother passed away. Cindy got a hospice um home called Rose Trace Home for Kid Up and Running, which was a major task. Um, you know, and and part of that was that Cindy was talking to people at Sick Hids Hospital and stuff, and they said, you know, the one thing that if you really could help us was is getting more hospice because there's just not a lot out there for for family. So Cindy and Dad, um, I helped a little bit, but it was more Cindy and Dad got uh got that up and running, and now uh uh uh the Darlington charity, our charities took it over and have expanded it. And and Cindy did a lot of work with uh the Kidney Foundation, and then she also uh was a big lover of animals and pets, and she started the Don Cherry Pet Rescue Foundation and part of the books sales. Um there you go, is is um uh goes to the uh Pet Rescue Foundation. So, you know, she was a really a giving person, but I I always laughed that uh she was more like my dad and I was more like my mom. So we were a little bit polar opposites on some of the other uh uh uh parts of uh of how we uh how we kind of conduct ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

All right. Uh let's uh talk about the book. Of course, you just uh held it up there. It's in two parts. One part previously released, and now the second part uh is coming out. Who helped finish it? I understand it was kind of a family effort.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

Yeah, um, well, Cindy started this just during COVID. You know, we were just chit-chatting, and dad had written a few books. And I said, Cindy, you should write a book about uh your life in with dad and mom, because I kind of came along um in like 1963, and uh so the family was kind of settling down, but Cindy was uh with mom and dad when they did their nomadic uh part of their life when dad played on uh 18 years in the minors and then traveled. I think they they moved some 50 times within that span. Wow. And um so she wrote the book and it was so long that the uh the publisher uh Treywell said you should cut it into two parts. So Cindy cut it in the the first part was um more currently about the poppy gate, uh what we like to call it, and uh some of the time with dad in um uh in in his coach, a little bit in his coaching career and uh television career, and then the second part was more about growing up. So um, and uh unfortunately when Cindy passed away, um her son uh Del Cherry kind of helped uh finish off the books and and uh helped get themselves published.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

We're definitely gonna talk about Poppy Gate, it's something that's on everyone's mind, even six years later. But I just want to ask you said your your sister was more like your dad and you're more like your mom. Can you tell us a story about your sister and why she was so much like your dad or an example?

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Um, I I I just think that um my my mom was more laid back, and I'm a little bit more laid back. Uh Ciddy was a little bit more um uh, you know, when when something got in her mind, uh it wouldn't get out until she got it done. And the book is a perfect example. And uh, you know, she basically wrote it by hand because she was uh never had a lot of luck with uh technology until her uh her her son helped uh um get it onto uh onto the computer. But uh she was like, and you know, just more that like dad's thing, a little bit uh at times a little bit more brash or a little bit more uh outspoken.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Is there a great story from the book that you want to share? The one that really sticks out when you read it.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

Um the one thing that that I kind of I kind of remember was uh in this book that uh uh dad loved his cars. And dad was a big sickler about his cars being completely spotless. He would get the and he would get the oil change like every two months. Like he was he was one of those guys. And uh Cindy had a beautiful Monte Carlo that dad had, and one day dad got in it and uh brought it over to his mechanic, and it had the oil hadn't been changed. And uh dad wrote Cindy uh uh a letter, and Cindy put it in the book. Um, and it's pretty funny, and it's just kind of that um it was it was almost a bit of a passive aggressive way saying, I better not see the car like this again. Um and uh and uh I I laughed at that because I remember Cindy showing me the letter, and I was like, oh boy, you're in trouble, boy. You better not there better not be a speck of dust on that car next time dad gets in it. And um uh, you know, just there's a few memories that kind of come back. Memories of when uh growing up in Rochester and uh mom and dad would have a lot of parties at their house, and remembering the players breaking our ping pong table and Cindy getting upset. I kind of lapped. Sydney got all mad at it that and dad got mad and stuff like that. So um, you know, just kind of bringing back a part of our uh, you know, we we've had many errors in our in our lives, and that uh and and she look brought back a lot of those memories about some of the stuff that I forgot that happened, which was a uh uh a lot of fun looking back at it. Maybe not at the time it was funny, but it is now.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Uh Tim, let's uh talk about your uh your dad for a second he's uh he's 92. How's his health? How's he doing?

SPEAKER_04 10:03

He's doing really good, you know, a little bit slower, and and like everybody that's 92. He uh he was over last night to watch the Montreal uh Buffalo game. I said to Dad, who are you rooting for at the beginning of the year or beginning of the playoffs? He said, Well, I'm rooting for Boston, and that didn't go very long. So I said, Who are you rooting for now? He goes, I think I'll root for Montreal, but he's Buffalo's gonna win the night. Um, so uh you know he's good. Like he's I think he's you know he's kind of happy. He's a little bit, you know, out of the spotlight a little bit and kind of um just at home and he's uh he's a huge Blue Jay fan. He really watches every game, and um he uh he he's hoping that they kind of get out of their funk, but uh he was kind of going, switch over to the Blue Jay game last night. Okay, switch over back to the hockey game, switch over to the blue gate to Blue Jay. So um I guess he's doing he's doing well, and you know, I think he's he's doing well for in in in spite of kind of what he had to go through when he played, you know, 18 years in the minors back then, and you know, very little medical um uh assistance for him. Like if they they heard something, they just kind of took care of it themselves. And he just saw a lot of really kind of uh different mentalities. Like dad was never allowed to drink water before during the game, you know, like the whole thing now is hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. And you know, dad, like you know, two hours before the game, the coach didn't want to drink. So he used to think it got them loaded, right? Yeah, and uh uh and so all that same, you know, that must have been tough on their kidneys and on their their their body going, you know, getting dehydrated like that, playing hockey. And uh, but he's he's he's doing well and uh you know he's still in he enjoys some playoffs. He regular season watching games in February with him, he's kind of like I don't think I'm gonna go watch uh a Humphrey Bulgar movie, but uh uh general playoffs, he uh he he gets more excited.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Uh and you live just around the corner from him, right? You're not far away from him, you can see him a lot.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

Yeah, no, I see him uh I see him quite a bit. I was over there at his house uh Sunday. I went over and watched, had lunch with him and had a Blue Jay game, and then he came over and watched uh you know game seven of the Tampa, and then he watched uh Buffalo game last night, comes over. So uh um, yeah, so I see him I see him quite often and you know, either calling him or texting him at least every day or every other day.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yeah, Tim, you've probably been asked this question a thousand times, but what was it like, especially at the peak of Don Terry when he was must-watch TV on Saturday nights? What was it like being his son and just be he was such a famous guy?

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Um you know, the I I'll tell you the one thing. Like I used to scout for the Ontario Hockey League. I was uh one on a for their uh central scouting, so I used to go out to the Greater Toronto Hockey League. Excuse me, and uh dad would come out with me, and we never had a problem. We never had a jerk come up to him and give him hell or or anything like that. Everybody was really nice and and polite. And um, you know, it sometimes there was um times when I looked like how how famous dad was because I always looked at him as dad, right? I didn't, you know, and when he came over to the house, he was always dressed down and and and things, and and you know, going out to the ranks or going to the airport a couple of times with him, you I you kind of go, wow, like he he really is that famous. And um and but again, he was dad, right? So sometimes you you didn't kind of really clue in on it that much.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Is there one memory that sticks out when you look back on all those decades of him doing Coach's Corner?

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Um I think I I I gotta tell you, I think the one thing where dad's dad's popularity and career took the next step was the punch up on P.H. Stanny, that that world junior brawl. And I don't know if people remember that, but there was uh it was really before junior the the world juniors was a big thing. And Canada had to beat, and it was a different format. Canada had to beat the Russians by X amount of goals to win the gold medal, and they were about to do that, and the Russians, there was a fight, and the Russians sent their players over, and Team Canada sent their players over. Bert Templeton was the coach um at the time, and there was a big I mean it was the brawl to end all brawls, and they even turned off the lights. And dad was on the broadcast with Brian Williams, and that's the Brian Williams was saying, Oh, it's terrible, black eye, and all that, and and dad stuck up for the kids. And um when he left the studio, then the the CBC, it was on CBC at the time, they said that's it, Cherry, your career's over, you'll never get on TV again. And uh and then he's listening to the radio, and all the talk show guys on the radio in Toronto were, you know, Cherry's a chocolate, these kids are barbarians, blah, blah, blah. And then when the phone, when they started taking calls, everybody was agreeing with dad. And I think um by by the next day, a lot of the talk show hosts were kind of changing the tune a little bit because they saw how passionate the fans were, and dad was kind of the only voice kind of expressing that outrage of what happened. And I think dad's career kind of took a step up after that. That I think the people at CBC kind of went, well, like he's kind of in touch, and we're really not. And uh, I wouldn't say he became untouchable then, but it became pretty close.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

It's so funny that you mentioned uh Brian Williams. I had completely forgotten about Brian and your dad uh doing uh Don Cherry's Grapevine on radio, which was syndicated right across the country uh for years. Okay, uh yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And my my background is radio, and I remember ever just about every station that I worked at, we ran it as part of our uh as part of our programming. Uh okay, Tim, uh you brought up uh Poppy Gate. Let's get into it. Uh it's the issue that still gets people riled up all these years later. It was Coach's Corner, uh, Remembrance Day 2019. Uh just for the benefit of the audience, uh, we're gonna play a uh a short clip and then and then we'll come back and talk about it, Zach.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

You know, I was talking to a veteran. I said, I'm not gonna run the poppy thing anymore because what's the sense? I live in Mississauga. Nobody wears uh uh very few people wear uh a poppy. Downtown Toronto, forget it, downtown Toronto, nobody wears a poppy, and then I'm not gonna we says, wait a minute, how about running it for the people that buy them? Now you go to the small cities, and you know, you you know, those the rules unroll. You people love you they come here, whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey. At least you can pay a couple of bucks for poppies or something like that. These guys pay for your way of life that you enjoy in Canada, these guys paid the uh the biggest price.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Now, Tim, did you watch Coach's Corner that night?

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Yeah, my uh wife and I were watching it, and the next day, uh Sunday morning, we were leaving uh to go to New York just for a couple of days, like a little getaway. And uh when my wife and I watched it, we both kind of went, ooh, like because I I think like that was uh to me, that was the height of the cancel culture when he said that. Like that was the apex of it. And I thought, uh oh, dad might get in trouble. So um I called dad the next day uh before we left for the airport. Excuse me, and um I said I said, How did it go? And he goes, Oh, good, like well, and I said, You get any trend? No, yeah, why? I didn't so I thought, well, okay. But then I got a call from the coach's corner producer, Kathy Broderick, and she says, I've given your uh phone number to an executive at um at Rogers SportsNet, and he's gonna give you a call. And um I thought, oh, and I she says it's kind of blowing, this whole thing's blowing up. And um, you know, I didn't hear from till I got to New York, and uh and and that's when he kind of said that you know there was some tough decisions were gonna have to be made. And um, and uh he wanted uh you know, Rogers wanted dad to apologize, um, and they wanted him to apologize on their terms. And uh and I I will say this, the person that I talked to, it wasn't kind of like a ha, we got Don now, and you know, we're we're gonna get him. Like there was a lot of angst in his voice. Like this was a really he was really struggling with this. And um, I just said, I said, you know, dad's gonna do what he wants to do, and he's gonna do it in his terms. And um uh yeah, you know, I didn't find out later until I talked to dad was that they wanted him to apologize, and then they wanted him to uh possibly uh was take uh sensitivity courses, and then there was something else they wanted him to do. And um uh, you know, I I just knew dad wasn't going to do it, and then we got on remembered today, we I got it on my phone that uh dad had him fired, and I called dad, and I think he was I I think Dad was a little shocked at of all the things he said, that was the thing that got him fired. But again, timing's everything, right? If he would have said that ten years before um he got fired, I don't think there would have been an issue. Um but um uh I but I think he was I think he knew that the writing was on the wall when he when because he had a meet two meetings with two executives, the guy that I spoke to and somebody else. And by the time they left, I think dad knew that that was uh that was it.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah. Tim, that Sunday, did you because I watched that episode as well and I kind of had the same reaction. I was like, ooh, when I heard what he said, that that was pretty it was quite a comment. Did you s read the reaction? Did you see the reaction from people and and why some people were upset?

SPEAKER_04 19:47

Um I I don't like I I I tend to back then I tend to stay stayed away from the social media because you know there was it, you know, it's there is very much cancer. No matter what dad said, people were upset with them, and no matter and and some people liked it. And it's the same thing, right? The people that didn't like what dad said didn't like anything that dad ever said. Um, but I could see I you know why like you know, you can see why it was upset. Again, it was the you know, the cancel culture. Um people were thought that dad was insinuating the immigrant immigrants and stuff. So I, you know, I like I again, timing's everything. If dad would say that now, I'd I he might get his hand slapped, but I don't think he would be fired. And I think I think and I think dad was a prime target for the cancel culture.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

I think the insinuation was that immigrant immigrants were unpatriotic, that it was immigrants that weren't buying poppies, and that's why people get upset. And I we we saw even you talk about social media reaction or other reaction, there was a lot of veterans who were immigrants or the sons and daughters of immigrants who were uh upset by this comment because they're serving in the military as well. Did your dad think about that? Did you think about that? Uh about about the fact that there were people who were genuinely felt offended by this because they are immigrants and they're not.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

I I think so. Like I I I think that there was people who were offended by it. I mean, in and that's the thing. I mean, yeah, I I think what they were doing though was that they were insinu they they were insinuating in or or trying to uh understand, uh like trying to put not say put words in dad's mouth, but were trying to think what what he was trying to say. And dad dad really wasn't targeting immigrants, he was targeting pretty much everybody that that wasn't wearing a poppy. And dad kind of said that years before, you know, you you know, dad you people was the big thing with dad and mom, mom would always say, honest to God, you people. Um you know, that that it's unpatriotic not wearing a poppy. Um and people, the guys who weared the poppy were um, you know, gave the ultimate sacrifice. I think dad got more um kind of uh uh more on this after we went to the to Vimy Ridge and you know you go into these little towns in France and see these Canadians who have who are are who's you know are buried there that you know pretty much everybody except the families have forgotten and it bothered dad I mean and and dad is a military guy I mean he went over to Afghanistan um to support the shoots one Christmas and um he just it it that kind of stuff really bothered him and unfortunately and I can see how people thought he meant strictly immigrants but it wasn't that yeah because it wasn't that the line was you people that come here so how would they how would they have taken that any other way because it sounded like it was people coming here. Yeah I mean absolutely but you know there were mo a lot of people have come here that you know and that are that are that uh have been here for a long time and and don't wear poppies.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Yes that's where I struggle too right because that we just talked about this before we got on the air. The problem is no one there's a lot of people that aren't buying poppies yeah right that that's that you're he was right on that front. You walk around any city and there's more people without poppies over Remembrance Day than there are with poppies. And that is that is a big problem. I think it was this idea that we center out the people who have only come here as the immigrant community. And and you know I think one of the one of the people was Harjid Sajin at the time was a defense minister. He's originally from India and he was a decorated soldier he served and he was hoping this is would start a conversation about reminding people that there's people from all cultures that serve in our military. I guess I just this is where I'm torn right Tim because you know I was a big fan of your dad uh I watched him every Saturday like everybody else did right I guess the question is that people still wonder is why didn't he just come out and say that was a terrible choice of words. This is what I really meant and well let's move on.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

Well he did come out he he came out and he said he goes I I didn't mean your I didn't mean immigrants. I would have used a different words if I was doing again but you know I think the writing was on the wall for um uh that what what Rogers wanted him to do was really to bend the knee and you know he had to read a a a pre-written um statement of apology and then they wanted to take sensitivity courses and you know dad said he I mean he said it on several um interviews that he goes I I should have used different words which he said but for him to go in and and and uh you know go and bend the knee because if he said I I wish I used different words but if he says I'm gonna take sensitivity courses then he's admitting that he was meaning immigrants and he wasn't meaning just immigrants yeah and again he said I shouldn't have used you people I should have uh uh come here I should have used a different word he said that on several interviews uh on the day the few days after Tim let's uh talk about Ron for a second McLean uh of course he took a lot of heat uh when this happened in fact viewers said that uh they thought he threw your dad under the bus.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Do you think Ron was kind of put in an impossible position during this whole thing?

SPEAKER_04 25:08

For sure. I think Rogers threw Ron under the bus just as bad as they threw dad under the bus. I mean excuse me um I have always said that if there were some old-time executive producers like Ralph Mellumby or Scott Moore or John Shannon or Ronnie Harrison and this situation came up that they would have held a press conference and they would have said you know I'm firing Don or we're firing Don, these are the reasons and would have taken the questions and they would have taken the slings and arrows to take the pressure off of Ron because they need they knew that they have to protect their brand and they got to protect the people on their show. And I don't think Rogers did that. In fact I know they didn't um and they put Ron in a very very difficult position and um you know dad and Ron don't top that as well they probably will after the playoffs are over with Rodgers with them. But you know I I feel bad that they got divided like that because it was it was it it wasn't it was more Ron versus Don than it was Rogers fired Don, right? And uh they I think they put Ron in an in almost an impossible position and if Ron did quit I know dad better than anybody. And dad would have been great we're brothers in arms and then a month later Ron didn't have a job dad would have felt horrible.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah. So you can understand why Ron would have wanted would have wouldn't want to stick around because it's there's a lot of money on the table as well. No question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

Yeah and you know like they I think they were at different parts of their career. I think that dad might maybe wanted to do one more year um of of coach's corner but um you know Ron was different but uh you know it it just it it it it tainted dad and it tainted Ron right so yeah um and I I I as I say I stay off social media as much as I can but you do see some of the comments about Ron and it's you know it it's I I I hate it. You know it's easy for people to say you should do this and you should do that until you face the facts. So you're you're walking away from a big contract you're probably gonna be uh you're probably gonna be you know uh you're gonna be a pariah you're not gonna get another job and um I I just think again I just think Rogers put Ron in a in a horrible position. Yeah your dad was upset at the time too if I recall right he said some things about Ron at the time he felt Ron kind of let him down yeah I do I I I just think that like when I got home and there was that there was just this almost fog of war but there were so many people coming at dad yeah there were so many people calling him up talking about Ron that you didn't have kind of okay I'm gonna step back for two weeks and then you know come out with a you know a statement and um I I just I think some there was some extenuating circumstances and you know dad and Ron have talked you know several times not this year but last year Ron came over to dad's you know when we were having a party birthday party um a cake for daddy came over um so it it's you know it's in the media right you guys know about the media it's just you know they'll say something and then they'll run to dad you know Ron said this and then dad'll say something and then you know they'll run to Ron and say oh you know Don said this and you know they do it for clicks they do it for uh to get it to get headlines and they don't sometimes I think they forget that you know dad and Ron have been the long friends and and have helped each other's careers for you know 30 some years right and and fought a lot of battles together. They got like I thought when they were talking about the Iraq war and and Ron was taking that they shouldn't get involved dad said they should get involved I thought well maybe they'll get fired for that um and and some other things but um and they they they did a lot of battles together and and it you know it really kind of bothers me that it kind of ended like this.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Yeah but to set the record straight then like because a lot of people do think that there's some tension there, your dad doesn't hold any ill will against Ron McClain?

SPEAKER_04 29:09

No I don't I don't think so I I I I again I think I I you know he ron said some stuff I guess it was last summer that about dad being in the hospital in Boston during the St. Louis bossy thing which didn't happen and I don't know why Ron said that and that kind of bothered that I think when you get a little bit older and um sometimes you you know you do have some uh you know dealing with some things when you get older and you hear people talking about your health you get a little upset that was a little upset with that but Ron called that and they talked it out so I mean it's not like if Ron comes over dad's gonna slam the door in his face right yeah well you heard it here because that that's really what a lot of people think right they think that there was this huge divide that all this ruined their relationship.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

So it's actually good to hear that is good.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

I appreciate you setting the record straight on that yeah I do guys oh sorry go ahead go ahead you guys know it's in the media right and it's just let's pick Ron let's pick Don and and I don't know if we're if if Rogers did that on purpose but it is a was a smart play in a way because it took the onus off of the corporation and threw it on Ron's shoulders right and um it it's um uh and again it's it's sad it kind of went like it's it's gone like that.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

I want to ask you what what do you think your mom would have said about all this what the his what he said and all would he would she have given him any advice I think I honestly believe that mom would have wanted dad to retire years before I I do I don't think I I mom did not like dad on coach's corner of all the things like mom traveled all over the place with dad and watched him fight and the coaching and all that she did not like watching Coach's corner. And um and if the situation came on I think um and they would this whole thing with mom would have said about Ron, get over it, you know like so what? Get over it. Yeah so she but maybe that he would have retired earlier she would want to do some other things right she had a a long life in hockey she would have preferred he stepped aside earlier I think so yeah I I do mom mom was not um you know mom was not really happy with what coach's car she was on pins and needles every night like what he was going to say I can imagine yeah what she how she would have reacted to all this yeah it would have been I think the maddest I've ever seen my mom was when dad and Ron were on coaches quarter and dad told Ron to shut up I went on shut up and I think dad and Ron kind of it was kind of a little bit tongue-in-cheek but mom didn't take it like that she met she dad came in and mom just said who do you think you are you mm mm mm mm telling Ron to shut up kids are watching you you just come across as an ignorant glute and just just ripped into them and and she was but that was every night that was on she was just like oh what's he gonna say now like you know don't and uh so as I say I don't know if dad still would have been on coach's corner as long if mom was alive. But that was the whole nation right we were all on pins and needles we had the whole seat but we only needed the edge because we never knew uh what your dad was going to say and and it's funny because people either absolutely loved Don Cherry or or disliked him but nobody ignored him uh Tim why do you think your your dad connected uh with so many Canadians um I I gotta tell you one reason why I think it worked and a lot of people say that I'm over over analyzing it when when dad started a long time ago and Dave Hodge was his actual was his first um that's right um partner um Ralph Melby was the executive producer and there was the two cameras right and dad was always looking at the wrong camera so finally he said to Ralph can we just have one camera so I don't look like an idiot looking at the wrong camera and Ralph said yeah okay so I think over the years it became that dad was talking directly to the audience you know not knocking the guys today but they talk to each other and sometimes they tell inside jokes and there's not a connection there right like there's there's this there's this dissident whereas dad and Ron were always you know you kids and you people and all that and talk and I also think that because dad and Ron were so all over the place that you know they could be talking about the brooms they could be talking about the leaves and then they showed uh a a minor midget game in in in dispatch one or a girls hockey tournament and Ron would mention it. And I think it was more it wasn't just about the game it was more kind of two guys sitting in a bar talking and then allowing some of the other hockey world to come in on Coach's corner. And um and then I think that dad was was true to his you know true to his feelings. Like he never really changed much his opinions from when he first started to when he got fired, right? You know and and and I said to Dadis is it's funny how towards the end you know we did the rock and sock and hockey and everybody was saying Dad Don likes violence and how violence is killing the game and and uh you know you're trottling dyed for wanting wanting like the fighting and now it seems it's almost gone full circle where what was the big thing last year was the four nices face off with the with the three fights. Yeah and um this year was a couple of goalie fights was the big thing. So that's almost you know that was what dad was always famous for talking about and we also some people loved him for it some people hated him for it but now it's seeming to coming back that it's more acceptable in the game a little bit. And um I just think that I just think that dad you know it was just talking about a lot of different things right it wasn't just about the it's just not about the goal that happened in the first period right and I think that's that's why uh that's why I think he connected.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

One of the silver linings of all the stuff that happened was that you and your dad got to do this podcast. It was very successful a lot of people listened to it.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

Um what did that mean to you to be able to spend those hundreds of episodes with him talking hockey and talking about things you know what like it was as I say we always had kind of a lot of different eras in our life and this was a really special era because um we would do it uh Sunday morning in in my kitchen uh kitchen table and then afterwards my wife my poor wife had to cook lunch for us all 313 episodes and so it was a good time that myself and my dad and my sister my wife Ling and my daughter Grace and Del my nephew could sit down and and have have a Sunday dinner with dad because we never had that like we never used to do that. We used the only time we had dinners together was the holidays um either dad was coaching or he was playing or he was on the road and uh so it was it was nice to be able to have that time it was which is almost kind of backwards right because usually you have that when you're younger and then as you get older you don't have those family dinners as often and this was a little bit different. And it was fun kind of say oh let's talk about remember the time you and Al Arbor did this or you and Larry Zidel did that and kind of reminiscing about what happened in our lives. So it was it was a lot of fun and then you know unfortunately when my my my sister passed away you know it just it wasn't the same. So we we did I think another half a year and then that was it.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah and so the podcast is done you're not you don't plan on doing that anymore?

SPEAKER_04 36:29

No I think my my nephew and I were doing we just did one little thing talking about the book and and people there's so many people asking about how dad's doing that uh we're just gonna say you know dad's doing well and he's watching the hockey and he's rooting for the was rooting for the Bruins now he's rooting for Michael and um and and that but uh yeah I I we're not going to uh to to to raise uh to raise it up again.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Tim I know uh your dad had a uh special guest knock on the door uh in Premier Ford to tell him that uh he's receiving the Order of Ontario uh is is your dad gonna attend the uh the ceremony uh I don't know I don't think he is I just I think to go downtown and to uh I I I think it's at uh set the Rome or AGO or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 37:16

I I just don't I just don't think he's gonna be able to to uh go to the ceremony he's gonna try uh you know I I've talked to the people that are putting it together but we're we're not 100% he's gonna go down yeah what did that mean to him to have the premier come and give him that that award you know what I mean it I do think it meant a lot to dad he he dad you know he was he's on the Canadian Walk of Fame and but he didn't he doesn't have a lot of awards um and this meant a lot to him because Ontario has meant so much like even we've always even if we lived in Rochester you know Ontario was just across the lake and we would go over to visit my grandma in Kingston all the time and it was funny when we were in Colorado it just didn't seem right that we were that far away from Ontario right like it was a two two day drive where we had to fly into Toronto. And uh so it did mean a lot to him and and uh dad appreciated Doug doing that as I know I'm sure he got a lot of flack from people but Doug's probably no stranger get catching flack but uh you don't say um but I uh but I appreciate but uh it was it's greatly appreciated by uh by dad and and the rest of the Cherry family for him doing that.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Uh again the uh book is the Don Cherry story part two uh Tim it's out uh let's tell everyone where they can get a copy.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Uh you can get it on um Amazon Amazon and is uh the best place to to get it and uh it's on a cover uh it's a hardcover or a paperback and again if you uh you can pick up Don Cherry 2 um it does you don't have to necessarily read Don Cherry 1 but Don the first one was more about uh again um dad's television career Ron McClain um how he kind of got to be a television guy and the next one was a little bit more about uh dad as a dad growing up and um and um and it's I think a lot of women will be really interested in it because uh it really talks a lot about my mom and what she had to go through and her philosophies and you know just dealing with the whole we went to Boston dad was the coach and and and mom went into the wives room with were the wives and girlfriends where in that whole dynamic Cindy goes into it which is a dynamic among itself and let me tell you stuff that plays out Cindy explains that plays out in the wives room plays out on the team and uh so if if uh some women are looking to say what's the life like with uh marry into a hockey player um this is a it's a good book because Cindy gets a a a pretty uh a fun uh account of what it's like all right good stuff oh and you mentioned a portion of the proceeds uh go where Tim to the uh Don Cherry Pet Rescue Foundation that helps uh smaller pet rescue foundations and they they go out and assist them with uh charitable work and and and helping them get donations and things like that so all right good stuff so I appreciate you guys letting me come on and and talk and and and plug the book and uh again thanks a lot for having me on.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

I'm glad that uh we were finally uh able to do it uh Tim thanks very much for your time thank you very eye-opening especially the whole Ron McClain dynamic right yeah and we talked about what what people thought and now we know for a fact truth.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah the public perception has always been that you know Don Cherry's very angry at Ron McClain. Yeah and uh I think there might have been moments where he was not thrilled but overall I their relationship seems to still be intact and they they're connected. And I think what Tim said too about how they helped each other's careers over all those decades which is very true right they needed each other uh to do that job just like you and I. Yeah exactly yeah same level people tune in it's the whole country stops on Sunday morning to watch to watch closer look. You know it's uh it is a shame what happened. Uh I did watch an episode like I said and it I did cringe when he said it and I totally understand why people would be upset at what he said. Sure. That this idea that you know he would visit the troops in Afghanistan for example and there were lots of there would have been immigrants soldiers and children of immigrants and I could see why people were upset with that and people were and they voiced that that that that they were upset. I sure did um I also see the point that from his supporters who would say that Don Cherry always says crazy, outrageous things and gets himself in trouble. Yeah. And he was adamant that he was not being anti-immigrant at that that moment uh it it's just it's a shame because I was like so many Canadians the the person that tuned in on Saturday night. I barely watched hockey as a kid but I always watched uh uh rock'em sock'em my best buddy Paul used to get the uh the the the the videos every Christmas the rock'em sockam I'd go to his house we'd watch it uh end to end and then watch some of the old ones uh it's yeah it's it's it's it's it's a sad way that it ended and you know his legacy will always mention that fact that he was abruptly fired. Right. And uh you know uh the thing that that that and people people are going to take nothing's gonna change anyone's mind I don't think listen I hope they learn a little bit today but it's not gonna change their mind uh on what they think about Don Cherry but uh what what I would you know what I'll remember is he was a he was a human to the court he was very emotional on his show at this point he would always have these snippets that they bring you to tears talking about a you know a young kid who was killed in a tragic way or what many Canadians learned that the latest Canadian soldier had been killed in Afghanistan because they watched it on Coach's Corner. Yeah. And he would show their picture and talk about where they were from and I can't I can tell you from personal experience from speaking to families that meant the world to them. It meant maybe more than anything else that Don Cherry put their son or daughter on Coach's Corner to show them to the the country because that's how people learned about it. So it it's a tough call. I mean I don't want to say anything good or bad. People are going to come up with their own opinions on on what they think of Don Cherry but it's like you know we we often say you know if you're judged by the worst thing you ever did, that's a harsh way to be judged.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

You know yes indeed. And it's funny that you mention uh Rock'em sock'em um my brother in law every year, same time at Christmas we'd all gather around the throwing the VCR we just dated ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Yeah the V that's the most of those are bad Zach's sitting over there saying what the hell's a VT Aren't recording this on a VCR? Yeah but that's the thing that those tapes have all everyone just threw them in the garbage. I think it's a because what are we going to keep these for right? But they weren't man you had the whole set lined up on the over 20 years. Oh yeah 20 seasons oh yeah it was great and the best part of the best part of Rock Up Socam was then they would do some highlights of that year's coaches core and they were always great man that was great.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

All right good stuff that's uh it for us this week closerlook at villagemedia.ca is our email address uh we'd love to hear from you anytime and of course you can still sign up uh anytime to get uh back episodes of the program and new ones sent directly to your inbox at closerlook.com Podcast.ca for Zach Trunzo, executive producer of the program, and Michael Friscolandi, our editor-in-chief, here at Village Media. I'm Scott Sexmith. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time, right here on Closer Look.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Frisco and Scott's wardrobe, provided in part by Morris Clothing for Men.