The Wealthy Barber is closing up shop

Released nearly four decades years ago, The Wealthy Barber helped countless Canadians understand money management and sound investing strategies. 

Last year, author David Chilton released a fresh rewrite of his iconic book for a new generation — and also stopped by our Closer Look podcast for a chat.

Amid news that Chilton is retiring at the end of 2026, we decided to revisit some of the sound advice he passed our way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Probably the most important advice in financial planning now is choose your parents wisely.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

It's Sunday, July the 5th, 2026, across the Village Media Network. And of course, wherever you get your favorite podcasts, welcome back to Closer Look. I'm Scott Sexmith. Frisco is off this week. After nearly 40 years as one of Canada's most trusted personal finance experts, the wealthy barber is closing up shop. David Chilton recently announcing his full retirement, bringing an end to his podcast and media operations so he can spend more time with his new grandchild and set out on some new adventures. We sat down with Chilton for an in-depth conversation when he recently released the updated version of his seminal book, The Wealthy Barber, in honor of his retirement. We're going to revisit that interview today. It's been 36 years since the Wealthy Barber first hit bookstore shelves. It uh went on to become one of the best-selling Canadian books of all time. In fact, more than two million copies sold, and now there's a new updated version packed with uh fresh insights for these challenging times. We're very excited to have the author David Chilton with us tonight on Closer Look. Uh David, great to see you. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Yeah, thank you. You may have one of the great voices of all time. I think I may not say anything. I may just sit back and listen to you talk. That's why we keep him around. That's why we keep him around, David.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Oh, that way that's impressive. Well, thank you. Uh I had a background in radio and many would say a face for it uh as well. Uh but thanks, David. Uh, okay, let's uh talk about the wealthy barber. It it certainly helped a generation of uh Canadians think differently about money. When you were writing the original all those years ago, could you ever have imagined how many people it would have helped?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

No, you know, in fact, I I was hoping to sell five to ten thousand copies. My parents thought that was a stretch. They they they were down for three, and my grandma bought, I think, 20. I gave her no discount. And the thing is, people laugh at that, but it's true. I sent her 20 copies, no discount whatsoever, and I charged her for the shipping. I mean, this was a small project. I wrote out of my house. My father and sister and Linda Minor acted as editors. I printed it myself. One of the great ironies of the whole thing is I cashed out my RRSP to print the book. The whole book said, never touch your RRSP, and I cashed mine out to print it. And my mother filled all the orders the first year before Stoddart Publishing got involved out of my garage. So this was really a small town project. I thought that again it would sell five to 10,000 copies. The first year it did a little better than that, but not dramatically sold. I think it sold 23,000-ish. And then the second year, uh, especially starting in the springtime, it went crazy and the word of mouth kicked in and who knew. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Can I tell you, David, what inspired you to write it that way? Have you been thinking about that for a long time, about the way you were going to craft this book?

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Well, it's funny. I I was an investment advisor and I would give books, mostly American books, but I would give investment books, financial planning books out to people in the target audience, people I was trying to help. They wouldn't read them. And if they did start them, they found them dull, they found intimidating uh subject matter, it was overwhelming them. And I thought, okay, let's try a different angle. But my original idea was humor-based. It was the ultimate guide to losing money. And it was very short and punchy, much like you see a lot of books put together now, not like the old days, and they're all text heavy. And then I switched it over to the bar. I came up with the wealthy bartender. And then I ended up shifting it to the barber shop, and from there we went.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Uh, David, what in the original has aged the best and and what didn't quite hold up the way that you thought it might?

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Uh, you know, pay yourself first, certainly. The the big theme of chapter four of the first book uh is held up. In fact, I still emphasize it strongly on stage and on page in the new book, and the empirical evidence supports it more than ever as being the way to go, that it's just a more effective way for most people to save than say budgeting. So it certainly stood the test of time. Interestingly, the insurance section I think has stood the test of time quite well too. I think a lot of the broad points really held up well. The problem is the details changed so much. You know, when I wrote the book, we had RSPs, now we have TFSAs, FHSAs, and so on and so forth. In terms of what fell down, I mean, back when I wrote the book in 87, 88, it came out in 89, there were no ETFs. There were very few index funds available in Canada. So most people for equity exposure turn to traditional mutual funds. And in Canada, of course, those are often laden with very high costs, two to two and a half percent. And those have definitely impacted returns. Interestingly, returns for the most part have still been quite good. The markets have been so robust that even people paying higher fees have outperformed GICs and alternative investments. But should index funds probably be the way for most people to go? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Have you been thinking a long time about updating it? Was there a moment where you said, man, it's time now?

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Yeah, it a lot of things came together. I did a very short video before I started doing some online content on FHSA's, the first home savings account. I was so frustrated with how few young Canadians who could be taking advantage of them were taking advantage of them. I saw the response to that, and that got me a little interested. But also my kids are in the target demographic. They're in their 30s. Their friends were asking questions. My friends' kids were asking a lot of questions, and it's tougher now. I mean, it really is. It's tougher for a couple of reasons. The cost of living is very high, especially as it uh impacts real estate prices. And then, of course, the algorithms, social media are making it so much more difficult to live within your means to avoid temptation. And I thought for all those reasons, the book can help. And so I set out to rewrite it, thinking initially it would take me, by the way, four to six months. I thought, ah, it's a rewrite. It'll take uh less time. It took me more time to do the rewrite than it did to do the original because there's so much more to teach. And you have to balance it all off. And what I quickly realized is you're not just going to explain what an FHSA is, what a TFSA is, you're going to recognize that people can't do it all. And in fact, in these tough times, it's very difficult to balance off even one or two of these priorities. So, how do figure people figure out which is the right route for them to take right now? How do they prioritize? What are the nuances? And then you're figuring out what do I put in the book, what do I leave out of the book, what's too much? Rewriting it. I do a lot of testing as I go. In fact, I probably have one of the stranger writing techniques you'll see. Everything is tested with the target audience on an ongoing basis. And their feedback is garnered. Did they understand it? What else did they want to know? What did they think was too much, et cetera? And then rewriting is done over and over again. And that's why it takes so long to put it all together.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

I feel bad that you've joined our show because our standards are not anywhere near as high as that. It's written and it's it's out the door to keep it.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

So your viewers don't know that this is our ninth take right now with doing our thing. No, they do not. They do now.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Thanks for telling them. We appreciate it. Where are you guys, by the way? We're in the great city of Sault Ste. Marie Village Media's headquarters is up north. Uh, we're in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, but we operate sites all across the province, uh, including Toronto. Uh, the Trillium of Queen's Park is the largest bureau of uh Queen's Park reporters, all operated by Village Media. But we started with one site called Sioux Today here in Sault Ste. Marie about 23 years ago. About that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Well, you know what, honestly, what a great story your story is. I mean, it really is. And I mean, I know the total uh readership is extremely high. You'd think with all of this success, you guys could afford a little bigger room.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

It looks like you're in a very, very tiny room there. Yeah, it's just for the we didn't pay you to say that, but thank you for saying that, David, because we've been arguing that for a long time. And it actually looks bigger on TV, dude. Yeah, you should actually. If you're actually here, I don't think you're at all.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

The whole time I'm talking to you guys, I'm thinking, is it physically possible for them to get out of that room? It looks like they may be jammed in there for the rest of their lives. It is. No, seriously, congrats on the business. I mean, we need more entrepreneurship, we need more business formation in Canada. It's one of the things that we're really struggling with. And so for you to start that up and get it to these levels, it's quite a remarkable achievement.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Well, for sure. It definitely wasn't on Scott and I's back, but we're very we're very proud of the operation and the people that run it. It's uh yeah, it's it's a great success story, David. It really is. Uh, so thank you for that. I appreciate it. You did mention the cost of living in your last answer, and it's a great point. Is there any is the cost of living obviously it's higher now than it was when you wrote the book, but in terms of the percentage, do we live in a much more difficult world in terms of cost of living than we did in the 80s when you wrote this book?

SPEAKER_03 8:19

Yeah, we do. And you know, statistically that can be backed up. Let's leave out real estate for a second. The last five years have been very tough. That inflation run was difficult. I would argue that the true inflation rate was much higher than the reported inflation rate. I mean, remember when they said that over the five-year period that we had food costs go up 20-something percent. Well, if you're in the grocery store, you knew that wasn't the case. They were going up significantly more than that over that stretch. And even now, when people say, well, inflation is more subdued, we've got it more under control, but that doesn't mean prices have gone down. We haven't had deflation. So people are still dealing with very high prices, then add in the cost of real estate. And a higher percentage of people's income has to go to supporting their rent, supporting their mortgage. And if you look, by the way, beyond mortgage costs with house owners with homeownership, at property taxes, at insurance, at upkeep, at doing a rental, all of that, in my mind, in most areas, has risen at a faster-than-CPI clip. So all of this is very challenging. And then on top of it all, can you imagine trying to get together a down payment? No. When you have homes trading at this multiple of income, and you're trying to, let's say, for example, hit that 20% level to avoid having to get the insurance. Oh my gosh, if you're looking at a $700,000 home, let's say you're in Toronto and you're looking at an $800,000 home, that's a $160,000 down payment you have to serve, save after tax. That's why, sadly, probably the most important advice in financial planning now is choose your parents wisely. That's that's a great and we don't want it to be that way. I mean, that's not what it's supposed to be about. If people are working hard, saving diligently, we want everybody to be able to get ahead. And so these real estate prices have definitely made it more challenging. And as I alluded to earlier, I would say also temptation is more difficult for most of us to resist now, including young people. The algorithms are always coming at you. Your friends are coming at you through highlight moments in social media. Credit is ubiquitously available. You know, anybody can just tap and go now and they've purchased whatever they want. You add all of this up, and my argument is that the boomers don't realize it is indeed tougher right now.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Uh so just talking about uh homeownership, uh, David, for a second, you mentioned that you've got kids in your 30s. Frisco and I uh both have kids. Everybody's scrimping and saving to try and, you know, get that down payment. Homeownership used to be the cornerstone of financial advice. Is that still the case today? You know, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

I mean, uh, even when you read The Wealthy Barber or you've listened to me over the years, I think it's a part of a solid financial plan for many. I think lots of renters have actually done well if they've been able to diligently invest the difference in the cost. Most haven't, frankly. They tended to spend them. But I don't think you should look at it as a cornerstone. It's just one facet of it. You still have to build up a big pool of capital that's going to allow you to retire, spin off the necessary income. So it's a component of it for sure. But if you make it your primary focus, your exclusive focus, as some people have, you end up with a fully paid for home down the road, maybe even worth a lot, but you don't have other assets. And then you've got to look at reverse mortgages moving down. People don't move down as often or as smoothly as is often uh uh described. And so it it's tough. It has to be a part of a balanced approach. I think in general, the people I've seen who have handled their money well and they now at age 55, 65, 75, are where they need to be, have probably spent a little bit less on homeownership and made sure that they've taken full advantage of things like TFSAs, RSPs, et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Just going back to your previous answer, David, you made me just my mind is spinning because it just shows how much of a different world those main characters in your original book are walking into now, all these years later. How much of that was that on your mind as you redid the book and updated it? Because there are so many things that are different.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Hugely. I mean, that's why the book had to be tested so thoroughly. You know, when I wrote the book, I was in the target demographic. And so were all of my friends. Now, obviously, I'm a lot older, and therefore tapping into the minds of all the people in their 20s and 30s, making sure you're covering their questions, being realistic, by the way. It's you can't just go out there and say, do the following seven things. You have to recognize that for most people, that is not possible. So, again, how do you prioritize if you're only able to do one of these two? How do you figure out which one is right for you? How do you help them to get past all these home ownership challenges? Not easy, but here are some tips you can put into play, et cetera. But yes, you had to be very realistic. I had to do a lot of outreach to the target audience. Fortunately, I have a lot of inbound conversations where people are asking questions. Here's what we did wrong, here's what we did right. And then I think one big advantage to being older, maybe the only one, is there are a lot of experience. So when I wrote the chapter, for example, on saving savvy, I've been around long enough now to know what does work, what doesn't work, what tips really should be weighted, et cetera. That chapter was the only chapter in the whole book that didn't take too long to write. That when I put it together, and funnily enough, it's the longest chapter, it tested well right out of the gate. But again, a lot of that's because I'm old. And so you've you've seen a lot of what is, you know, is effective and what isn't.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah. You know what I wonder too, you think about how much the world has changed in the last 36 years, and how quickly the world is changing every day now. Just it seems like it changes faster and faster. I think of obviously the advent of AI and what's gonna how what's gonna where we're gonna be. Does that concern you in terms of all the rules we know now? In five years from now, depending on how the world moves, will they even be relevant?

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Okay, so I'm gonna break out AI for a second. All right, I'll tell you a quick story about AI. I was writing the preface to the book, and right while I'm writing it, a friend of mine sends me a note and says, Well, what about AI? Like, what if it wipes out all our jobs in five years? Then what position will you take? And I said, fetal. And because I'm already there, David.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

I'm already in that position.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

I don't have an answer to what happens if AI comes along and overwhelms the job market and we have 30 and 40 percent unemployment rate. So let's take that one out for a second. On the other changes, amazingly, they've always been there. Maybe the speed of change is accelerating because technology is becoming a bigger and bigger part of our lives. But I actually teach people to tune out the noise, stick with the common sense basics, you know, spend beneath your income level, slowly pay down your debts, quickly pay down your high interest rates. Let's take advantage of RSPs and TFSAs and take advantage of index funds. Remember, the companies that are doing all of these wonderful things are available through the index. They won't all prosper, but the long-term returns, I think, will stay quite solid. So a lot of what I teach is don't get caught up in the noise, don't get caught up in the panic. Remember as you hear these negative stories that lurking beneath the surface are all kinds of positive things. Every day, very smart people, very smart companies are innovating, creative, coming up with new things that are going to better our lives and going to lead to some success in these investment alternatives. So I tend to be pretty calm and cool about that. AI, on the other hand, I don't think any of us knows exactly what that's going to lead to over the next five to 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Uh, David, you've been doing this uh a really long time and you've seen a lot of things. What's the biggest mistake that investors make?

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Well, I think starting too late, obviously, we talk about that. And sadly, that's getting worse because again, now it takes so long to accumulate the down payment. And so even diligent savers who are doing a wonderful job of living within their means can take five, 10 years in some instances in the big city to put together that down payment, and that can crowd out other savings. Then when they get into the home, as I mentioned earlier, the costs of home ownerships are such that it makes it difficult to save. So procrastination is one thing, but this is justified procrastination in a lot of cases. No easy answers there. On a very basic mistake, I see that is absolutely a killer, the number of Canadians who don't take advantage of their employer matching on a group RSP. Very few things make me pull my hair out to that extent. So we'll see somebody and they've done some good things, but they're not taking advantage of that. That's free money. If it's a dollar for dollar match, that's 100% return on your money the second you take advantage of it. And if I can throw one more out there, I'm honestly not judgmental when people ask me questions, show me their spending summaries, look for help, et cetera. I kind of look at it and say, hey, are some things that you maybe should think through. Have you thought about this? There's one area I am pretty judgmental on, and that's what a lot of people spend on cars. But if you look at the line item for car expenses, not just the actual car payments, but beyond that, you've got parking, you've got gas, some unavoidable, unquestionably, but a lot of this we take on voluntarily. So while the complaints about the real estate prices, the cost of living, they're totally justified. You would think that that would lead us to spending less on cars as a percentage of income. Not the case at all. The car industry has done a wonderful job of making us uh define ourselves to some extent by the car we drive. Not everybody falls victim to this, but an unfortunate percentage of people do.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

That's a great point. That's the one thing I'm definitely not an expert, but I've been arguing that my whole life because all my buddies are into cars. They love spending all their money on cars, and I'm not at all a car. I have a car that's paid off. It's it's old, it runs, it's fine. And I feel like I've done better than because of that. That's been a huge help. But you what you mentioned is true, right, David? That push, uh, you mentioned it earlier, the algorithms, the social media, that idea that we have to keep up with the Joneses, it's harder to fight now, even than it was a few years ago.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

You know, the Joneses are everywhere. Yeah, and oftentimes the Jodens are overwhelmed with that. We just don't realize it. And again, you're only seeing the highlight moments of all of your friends and colleagues and co-workers and everybody else on social media, and it just pulls us in and makes us spend. And then with credit you being with ubiquitously available, as I mentioned, that's a bad combination. But just going back to your point about how you've handled your car expenses, that decision alone has freed up a lot of money for you to be able to max a T FSA, for example. I see it all the time when I see people of income levels that are equal, couples, and they're doing everything the same, equal income levels, equal housing costs, even. One couple is doing a very good job managing car expenses, the other not so much. The difference in their financial planning is astounding. And so that's one thing I think all of us have to take a closer look at. But I've almost given up a little bit on that. Because I've been preaching this for 20 to 30 years and don't seem to be too impactful. And of course, cars have become even more expensive relative to incomes over the last five years, as have car repairs, and therefore, logically, as has car insurance. Yes. And so all of this seems to be getting worse, not better.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

It's insane. I I swear this is fascinating to me because uh my son is 16. We talk about finances all the time. He has a job part-time, he referees hockey and baseball, he's making some money, he's putting it a lot of it aside, which is which is great. And I've already ordered him ordered him a copy of the updated book, so he'd be happy to know that as well. But in terms of a kid like that, when he turns 18, uh I'm sure there's discuss in the book, but is it better to max out your RSP starting at age 18, or is it better to max out the TFSA?

SPEAKER_03 18:34

It's tricky. You know, it really is. The math on that is challenging. It took me several pages to walk it through. I can't give you a quick answer right now, but I do want to say this. If he says, should I be using an RSP or a TFSA, the answer is yes. Okay, you should be saving. And those are very tax-efficient ways to save. I'll let the book guide him through how to think it all through. Normally, by the way, in a relatively low income level, relatively low tax bracket at age 18, 19, 20, potentially in school, etc., the TFSA is probably the better of the moves. But without knowing his specifics, I wouldn't want to say that for sure. The best thing to tell him from me is to get dad's money. Okay. Somehow, some way, get some of dad's money.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

He's already has enough of that already, David. David, uh, you've made a career out of uh simplifying money. What's the hardest part uh hardest part about keeping financial advice simple in 2025?

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Well, you know what? What a coincidence because you're asking that on the heels of the previous question about the RSP versus TFSA, and how do you again show people how to prioritize to all this? So it's not enough they understand it anymore. These products are all wonderful, by the way. If you don't like TFSAs, you're a weirdo and you have a fundamental misunderstanding of math. The FHSA is the best product we've ever introduced. So they're all wonderful products, but we have a bit of the paradox of choice. There's a lot to understand now, a lot for people to look at. It's one of the reasons why I think the new wealthy barber will help people. It demystifies this and kind of walks them through again how to prioritize it, how to understand it. And it's the same, by the way, when you look at investment advice. You go on to TikTok, you go on to Instagram, there's an overwhelming number of people providing advice. You don't know their backgrounds. Some are very credible, by the way, some are great communicators in Canada. We're lucky to have a few top drawer ones, but a lot are coming at this with no experience or vested interest or trying to sell a course, whatever. How does the public take in all this information and really figure out, you know, what matters, what doesn't matter, what's truthful, what's not? That's very tricky.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Oh, it's so tricky. Um, here's another tricky question. I know this is a totally loaded question. The bar the budget, the federal budget just came out. I don't think you've probably seen it, had a chance to read all 493 pages, but anything that struck you in particular, David, that you liked or didn't like about the budget?

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Well, I I think you can see that at least their understanding we need investment. If you look in Canada right now, the bottom percentile, whatever they are, 40%, are really struggling. I mean, I see it when I see the spending summaries. That's not again people are being undisciplined and spending carelessly. It is tough to make ends meet right now. We need wage growth, but we need wages to grow at a faster clip than the CPI. That's absolutely pivotal. And to do that, there's only one way we have to raise productivity. And to raise productivity in turn, we have to get more investment. We have to get more investment domestically, we have to get more foreign direct investment. How do we make Canada more inviting to capital? And so you could see a big part of the budget was about that. How do we lay the foundation for people thinking there's more opportunity here, there's better potential returns here, the government's going to be working in partnership in some way, shape, or form in certain areas. So you could see that effort was being put into place. Now, of course, the devil's in the details, always tough to execute, but I think you could see that direction being pursued. A lot of people are complaining, hey, yeah, but it's a $78 billion deficit. Very tough to strike all these balances right now. You know, it's very difficult not to have a significant deficit as we again try to provide some of this capital to take on our coveted programs and make sure they're honored, but also provide the investment capital in some of these areas. Would you want to be a politician right now? Holy schmokes. No way. Like we love to yell at politicians on both the left and the right, but what a challenging, challenging job right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

It's funny. We talk about that all the time. I mean, we we obviously have people questioning decisions that are made every day in power, but it's just not an easy job. I just couldn't imagine, especially the way we are today.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Yeah, no kidding. It isn't. And you know, you know, it's this is gonna sound a little bit corny and uh kumbaya like, but I think one of the countries out there in the Western world, we're all battling tremendous debt problems. Many are battling income inequality, wealth inequality problems that have gone too far, et cetera. One of the most important things I think we can do is somehow find more of a middle ground and stop the hatred of the left to the right and the right to the left. That is blocking a lot of the solutions. It's blocking a lot of the cooperative, innovative thinking. There are a lot of smart people out there who really do truly want to help. But by locking into these tribes, and let's be honest, they've become tribes now, almost cult-like. The far side of each is so full of hatred toward the other that we're not able to do that. And I think that maybe Canada, under good leadership, under more efforts from all of us, can stop always lashing out at the other side, whether it's left to right or right to left. I think that's a big part of the solution. Maybe I'm naive to hope it happens, though. Maybe it's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

It's a great move. Yeah, very well said. Uh, this has been a great uh conversation, David. So thank you for that. Before we let you go, uh anything else that we didn't cover? Uh maybe one piece of advice that you would uh give any uh any investor.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

I'd probably, if I were you to get a door in that room, I'd be throwing off the entire time. And not only you in a tiny, tiny room, but it's doorless. And I just have this vision of you guys spending the rest of your lives doing podcasts from there with no food, no water, and no bathroom breaks.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

So that's my big advice to you two is get out of there. It's 100% true. Make me a promise, David, if you're ever up in Northern Ontario, you're ever in the Sioux, come by because there is a there is a little bar around the corner, which is nice. It's just right beside the studio. So make sure you come by for a drink if you're ever up here.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

I will, and I love the Sioux, by the way. I've spoken there many times. Donnie James, one of my best friends, is from there and he gets up all the time, and it's a it's a great area. So love it, and thanks for having me on. Thank you, David.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Awesome stuff. There's David Chilton, uh, the author of the updated version uh of The Wealthy Barber. It's a great read. Get your copy today and uh certainly uh check it out at uh wealthybarber.com. Uh, David, thanks again. Appreciate your time. Enjoyed it immensely. Thank you. That's our show for this week. Be sure to follow us across all of our social channels and sign up for free for our newsletter and watch previous episodes at closerlookpodcast.ca. You can also reach out to us anytime at closerlook at villagemedia.ca or Zach Trenzo, executive producer, and everyone who makes Closer Look possible each and every week. I'm Scott Sexmith. Thanks for watching. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. We'll see you next time right here on Closer Look.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Briscoe in Scott's wardrobe, provided in part by Morris Clothing for Men.