Agile-Lean Ireland (ALI) Podcast

SCRUM at War (with examples from the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine) with Oleksandr Buratynskyi - Agile Lean Ireland

March 13, 2023 Agile-Lean Ireland Episode 13
Agile-Lean Ireland (ALI) Podcast
SCRUM at War (with examples from the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine) with Oleksandr Buratynskyi - Agile Lean Ireland
Show Notes Transcript

SCRUM at War

Inspection of how society, army, and business can survive and win by following basic SCRUM values and an Agile approach, with examples from the Russian war against Ukraine.

Oleksandr Buratynskyi

Oleksandr Buratynskyi, Organizational Consultant & Certified Agile Professional (PAL-I, ACC) / Scrum Master (PSM) with 10+ years of international expertise of Embedding innovation into organizations, 
successful Agile implementation, facilitation, coaching, mentoring, teaching in Agile, SCRUM (LeSS), Kanban, startup pivot, culture creator with extensive Quality Assurance background

 (Slice, GlobalLogic, Luxoft, Credit-Suisse, UBS, tTravel, Slated, Competera, Innovecs, Emerge, agiledrive).

Find us here:

Welcome, everyone. We are very pleased you could join us at the session, we see that many participants joining us from various parts of the world, far away from Dublin or even Ireland, You are so welcome. Our speaker, Alexander burtynsky who will be presenting on scrum at war is an organisational consultant certified agile, professional, certified scrum master and has over 10 years of international expertise of embedding innovation into organisations, and helping them to achieve results by following Agile values and principles. He also is a founder of a startup called travel. Alexander, I will tell a bit about the context about what we had like a bit more than a year ago, in Ukraine situation like we have a full scale invasion that was consist of 2000 Hundreds different troops on the borders of Russia and Belarus coming from those borders, more than 2800, the battle tanks, a lot of armoured vehicles, you know, 1000s of armoured vehicles, artillery, missiles, aviation, et cetera, et cetera. So they were coming from a lot of directions, from north from, from east from South actually from occupied Crimea, from aka Biden bus. So it's, it was, you know, it was a lot and I actually, I woke up is five in the morning, everything was, you know, on fire. So it's, I'm still in key if you know, and I never left the cave. And it was a shocking experience, what actually helped us to with with the situation to survive and to start winning. So, the first aspect is communication is transparency, right? The, the key factor was to prepare the telecom providers to prepare the networks to be able to, to hold to withstand, and do you have like backup generators and cetera. So another thing is, you know, there was a sterling it was added to actually near two armed forces afterwards, but first kind of hours of the war, they were, they were they very intense and very important in terms of communication in terms of people sharing information, like President office of the president representative, they, they actually came out and said, We are here with you, and we are going to win we're going to defend defend ourselves. And I have a story about the Commander in Chief, you know, generals Alumini maybe you know, him he's like, what's was important about his communication, his decision, he trusted a civilian to aim our artillery. So basically the suggestion was like that the you know, the aeroplanes you know helicopters and troops Russian troops they were coming coming to us normal it's North West I would say of Gi if it's very important that is very near the our biggest player in the wards Maria was was standing there and it was a good spot for them to capture to you know just bring more and more troops there with the planes you know, it was a key spot for them it was very crucial for them to capture but we bring you know the most important the most successful forces of ours like restraining forces there and started to share it with with artillery when they actually came there and like in the common centre like the commander in chief was was asking you know, we need the ice there we need to look we need to see because of the fog of war because of you know, a lot of people died in the first minutes and we just had no no one to two Amis and people started to call who was there and found the person who is was basically this villain who was standing near the window and like seeing like in one kilometre see in this airport, and was just aiming Okay, guys, you you, you know, you miss that. Now, now it's better. Try try bit left. And you know, he was just good Even some hints, and we're allowing our theory and our forces to be, you know, to hit right to hit right in the end in aim. So basically that was mind blowing decision and mindset shift for many generals, that commander in chief trusted civilian, but this is good, it really good kind of key takeaway for the business and for for your culture in wherever you are, is to trust your people like prioritise all sorts of communication, you know, give people the context, give people understanding of the problem, and trust your people. That is that is very, very important. Yeah, we're talking about communication and transparency. So key factors, what we had in the beginning, is preparation with telecom providers and backup plan. So, in first minutes of full scale invasion, like occupied forces, they wanted to reduce this communication, you don't know the one to shut down the system. And no one knows anything, you know, everyone is blinded, fog of war floor, nobody understanding what is happening, but, you know, they failed to do that the President in the first minute came to all and said that I'm with you guys. And girls, you know, I'm, I'm here, you know, all the, all the people that you need, you know, all the government is here, we are with you, we are together, you know, let's fight, we will win. And this is this is one of the important lessons and important of the observation of mine, right? It's it, you know, like, strong wheel is strong vision and communication very, like, sometimes it's reactive, but sometimes it's proactive, because our president is actually communicating each each day, already more than a year, about the situation about, you know, like, some achievements, some work that they're doing, it's very clear, sometimes it's high level overview, because he cannot share details, obviously. But it's, it's very important. You know, many people rely on that communication from President from our army, the basically counting how much the enemy tanks, like infantry they destroyed. So that's, that's kind of, its kind of good thing, you know, and if you, if you take it to your life or to your business, I would say the key takeaway is prioritise all sorts of communication, and trust your people. Next thing, it's sort of self organising teams, how does it relate the gap, maybe you're thinking how it all relates to to Scrum and Agile. So it's one of the one of the things that we have in Scrum, like one entity itself, organised team and self managed. So we actually, like we actually did the same, you know, and still doing the same, you know, small groups, or we are forming small groups of people that can act autonomously, but with, like, with, with a vision or with understanding the main problem, right. So, the second story is about that, like, Russian army couldn't occupy it, like Qi from eastern side, because they stuck in to New Haven soon. And we have even a joke that in SWAMI, the, you know, that second army in the world would would come to Berlin, you know, easily, as they said, you know, but they stuck in Atsumi, you know, fighting with Western people with the rifles. So it's like, it's just, it's just how it was basically, one person, like, without any communication with Commander in Chief, decided to give guns, again, trust the people, the baseline stress there to give the guys for those who can handle the guns and those who basically studied in, in, in a facility, you know, like, it's kind of an army army facility, Army College, shall we say, and give a glance and they basically stopped the like, not coupled with 1010 or 20 tanks, right? They just just stopped and the they basically give others time to think to understand what is happening and to give additional guidance. So it's like me out one of them, one of the principles and one of the things that we have an underline it says is like current situation, I rephrase that this current situation over contract negotiation over like waiting, what we need to decide to like, what command will say, like current situation and our autonomous, you know, team can decide what they do. If they have this constraint, like, we need to win, right, we need to survive, we need to, we have the common goal we need, like, we have a shared goal. And another thing is battle for key flexure story, right, you can read it in Wikipedia, there is a big article in the Washington Post, but I want to share a link maybe you will find like better explanation. In Wikipedia, it's been very sufficient. So when a huge amount of tanks and armoured vehicles came, you know, from Belarusian Belarusian border, and they start to move to the key our army used, like small groups, that consists of driver, you know, one person with a rocket launcher, I can log something like that, and, you know, some, like, personal withdrawn, or someone who can actually see what is happening, and they shut down the beginning of this, you know, column, the end, and then they started to, to just shoot at the big like, in the middle, they had fuel supplies. So, basically, strategic move was that small groups, they are faster than this big, big length, you know, column of tanks, and they can move, they can shoot, and then move again, should move again. And they stopped a lot of a lot of, you know, tanks and armoured vehicles in such a way. So, and still, the same thing was when we were liberated in the heart of hearts region, it's actually the, the attack was from many sides. And we decided to move through to the second line of defence, you know, just just moving through first to this already the second line of defence and occupied, you know, Russian forces, they just ran away, we just started to run. Because they were scared, it was from many directions with smaller mobile groups. So encourage that teach takeaway from this, right? Encourage small groups initiatives and decision making, right? It's, it sounds very vague, maybe in manifests in, like, from agile speakers, but on practice, you can see it in action. works at the crisis in wartime situation. About volunteers. Next same we have we had volunteer phenomenon, you know, amount of initiatives, it's actually, you know, it's surprising, we had some support from business, you know, all the business is just, you know, like, deal donating still, you know, prioritising and given money for for Army for, like, the FBI and stuff for forces for huge, you know, initiative, like, I will tell later about, like, rented satellite, for example. So, it's the main thing and we have a bit of information how, how, how it went, actually, if somebody rented satellite and what, so, what problem we were solving. So it's like, huge business support ambassadors abroad. Like Do people just took initiative with that, like in their hands I remember in the first days I was in Keefe, like for the whole time, and I remember keep is very empty, but the long queue like of volunteers that want to go to the army, you know, want to take gun and want to defend a country want to survive, I remember they just came there. I extend like I was 50 like 53rd And I said, Okay, maybe I will be more I will bring more value in different ways. So I started to make foods like brains and powerbanks. Now, I'm only donating but I had done I had like two projects with people that need to be also like, guided Yeah, how to how to move How to relocate how to proceed with better working. So, it's like a lot of people just weren't volunteered, maybe it's because we already have like Revolution of Dignity. My staff that people, people believe that they are the master. Right? They actually have this ownership, they have this commitment. Again, why it's about agile, about Scrum. You know, there's currently we have values, right? We have this courage, we have this courage, and we have this openness, and a lot of words about commitment. Right. So it people people believe that they have it. So they, they went and they decided, Okay, I will bring some clauses, I will bring some, some stuff, you know, I have, I have money, we can we can buy radio stations, we can buy medicine, we can bring the medicines, we can bring cars. So it's a lot, a lot of those initiatives, they are still ongoing. And, you know, like, I think that, then my observation is that, because people to do those kind of tactical smaller tasks, you know, how to get closes for for our, you know, army there, because we had, like, a reduced, like, budget, military budget, right. The our government were, they managed to focus on bigger initiatives, you know, to ask for some ammunition to like large parties of, you know, some armoured vehicles, so they focused on strategic stuff that are more, you know, pricey, and people will, because, because people volunteer that because people cover it a lot of smaller tactical initiatives around the country. So it's, I think it's, it helped a lot. And you know, about the volunteering stuff and about crowdfunding. So maybe, you know, maybe you don't know. We like the Ukraine is the country crowdfunded for by rock stars, like big, unmanned, you know, a drone. And, like, eventually, like by Rockstar said that, okay, we will give it for free. And we rented a satellite with with the technology ISI. And it resulted, so basically the port appeared on today. So I just put it here, it appeared that because of this satellite, we were managed to identify like, three 360 tents, with with Russian troops and 7321 different items of military attack. So from them, it's 45 aeroplanes when it's 27, helicopters, six is condensed to like surface 36 seat. Three 300 C 300. It is very it's very, very dangerous thing because it's ballistic rocket that flies with the huge speed and it's, it's very hardly you can find it with NT NT missile defence. And I think that it's already showing very good results. And basically, it's people, people crowd founded this satellite to help out like, to survive and you know, to to win, to bring the victory. So it's like it was a decision of people and all this decision of volunteers with constant communication with with military, right, with army so what's the key takeaway is share your vision, define your goals, and when people understand the threats, they will find the results the resources or get creative with solutions. That's it for today. In my practice, like agile practice, my team teams are asking like, why why I need to talk to customer why I need to you know, go to talk to sales or like understand what, what support is doing, right. And on practice, I'm showing them today, like we have vision, we have clearly defined goals. And when you have this explanation of the problem, you can get creative you can define solution as you want this so much of empowerment and this and empowerment is is a key thing and in Agile, and in Scrum, so, you know, constant learning, constant learning is the thing that also, you know, we have this tight feedback loop in Agile, we are saying that yeah, team should learn, we have this cycle of, you know, retrospectives, where we are sitting in understanding what we did, how to improve our way of working, how to improve our product. So it's like, with reviews, it's all about the feedback. And, you know, our, the water showed that our like, that we were prepared to learning constantly, so we were learning ways to survive. So basically, like, a lot of ice, a lot of civilians are still working with, you know, on their workplaces, but we are, we are meeting on a shooting range, right, we are still preparing to hold. Like Machina, we are still we're still preparing, you know, how to understand, like, what some some army commands, we are still learning how to operate different types of vehicles. So, basically, yes, you know, like, I bet you're helping, you know, a lot with what you can, you know, all of the European countries, democracies, United States, you know, not only, you know, Australia from APAC region, everyone, you know, is given different type of weapon weaponry, different parts of weapons, new machinery. And it's like, like, different army generals, they said that, this logistic hell, right, we need to, we need to actually understand how to operate with all this stuff. But we were open to this, and we understand the goal. And actually, we understand how, like how important it is to learn more and more about different types of new things, and how we can, how we can use it on a battlefield to solve the problem. The problem is actually, you know, to survive to defend our country defend our lives. Not being you know, enslaved. So, yeah, that's a lot of learning, but we understand the importance of it. And we're trying more and more, of course, they are, there are, like examples of people who are still learning and, like, still working, like, like they are in Soviet era. But, for example, we have initiatives, like together with Agile coaches in Ukraine, we are spreading NATO format called after action review. And it's basically the retrospective for for an arm, right, we are enhancing, and we are bringing it to different types of troops of Ukrainian military troops, to give them in the tool, the instrument that they can use. So yeah, it's basically the to have constant feedback loop. And you know, that experience from success abroad, our, our guys and girls there, they're all around the world. Basically, sharing the experience, as they say, in what they already thought. And the instructors from that stage from you know, check here from Poland, they say, what you didn't know, here's what you didn't know, here's what, how you can use in your context, but it's very important. So the key takeaway here is to review the speed of your learning learning of in life or your organisation learning, right and fix your feedback. That's very important. system thinking this then thinking is like history about like, why we actually were able to stop the like, the very, very big amount of forces because they had they had 10 times bigger amount of artillery, right we we had hammers like from United States they provided hammers that were basically aiming them the ammunition the warehouses resolution for rational theory. So system thinking is basically to to see what's around and to hit in a logistic chain in communication in our nation warehouses, right. We don't need to to actually confront you know, the the artillery machine itself or the infantry or like the battle tanks, we need to have them lose, lose the ability to shoot that the system thinking. Right and that is important to see your basically the key takeaway, right? This fee your system as a whole. And what influenced the system, the more you know, like strings, you need to pull one string, you see what is happening, where is the loop like that is enhancing our ability and what is decreasing our ability to innovate, to learn, you know, to produce the valuable product. So, above Sportech, about a satellite already said. So it's also the holistic approach, we have satellite, we can see the whole Battlefield will reduce the fog of war. And we can pick spots where we can, you know, bring not the most harm, but reduced the ability to attack. And because we are defending our country, so constantly in haste, and hence, ways of how you see your system with all dependencies and their influence. That's the key takeaway for me here. We have servant leadership. So like, even we didn't know that our current president would be such a great wartime leader. Right? We didn't like a lot of things. We didn't saw what he did inside the office, right, how they like decision making process, et cetera. But now, other people are sharing that he's enforcing the discussion, right? So it's like a facilitation. It's like what we have in Agile principles, like we'll do it like scrum master for enhance, enforce discussion. Now, so we want to listen to the people what their opinion, their opinion, and basically, alternative opinion matters. Right now, like, we can, like, combine this in a better solution. And that's what what a good leader do, yeah, he's he's not, you know, saying what to do. He's kind of, again, trust people around him and bring the value from, you know, sometimes very, like, like, very different opinions. So another thing is engaging with partners to obtain your resources. So people are saying, Okay, we cannot defeat the enemy, they are bigger with those resources, but we need that. And he was acting like, an, what I called an opening open a leader, like, he's opening the opportunities, you know, go into the partner say, we need he, this, this, and that, to provide this type of operation, this type of operation to be able to defend ourselves to cover the sky, because our civilian infrastructure, and civilians are dying, you know, and children's are dying. So he was constantly in this communication, you know, like, sometimes it was, like, 20 hours a day, so sleeping only two hours. And he's emphasising the vision of Greater Good to increase collaboration. It's also inspiring, you know, and this is a way of, of good servant leadership, be there to inspire, be there to hear others, you know, and unlock new abilities and new possibilities. So, so key takeaway for me was, an observation is, instead of command and control, you know, seek for opportunities, and encourage new leaders, if you're a leader, and I know you know, I believe strongly believe that agile coaches, Scrum, Masters managers, you know, all all of you, your leaders, you know, and that's very important. And the people first you know, the principle that exists in our army and doesn't exist in army of our, you know, enemy. So, we save lives and then regain what is lost in terms of territory knows, Bill, like, it's, I've seen it with my own eyes and such a big amount of videos how people, people save people, and people prioritise people, like the they leave their cars, they leave their, you know, stuff closes, but the the, not only people actually, it's also also pets, you know, and, like, a lot of we have, like special like, in telegram messenger, we have a special channel, but it's about like Ukrainian army and cats. And it's like, you know, like 1000 videos a day with, you know, cat that were found by army and just, they defend them and they bring them to a place where they were warm, and, you know, one without them wore them out. So it's like, it's very, it's inspiring. And, you know, it's it's very interesting that when we focus on papa, people first, we started to define and create things that that are keeping the lives to which unmanned surveillance and reconnaissance, like drones, unmanned medical recreation are meant landmine removal. So about surveillance, and basically we have, like, and volunteers plus, we have already 15 types of different drones that were invented, that were not exist a year ago and were invented by people. They are people and they are already serving in our army. So basically with with pilots, right 15 times, and a lot of different types are still in progress and development is cetera. So basically, we need to see the situation first, we need to be able to go there without losing people's lives, and it's in defeat the enemy and defend our country without losing people as because people matter the most for our army, for our community and society. So key takeaway here is your people is your environment. Basically, it's what what brings and what forms the culture and consistency strategy, right? is like, a couple of examples. Ukrainian diplomats uses the crisis as the opportunity window to became a new year in Canada, the European Union can take and make reforms supporting the will of the people, you know, it's like it's a lot of effort on the diplomatic front, you know, engaging to innovation before the World War is over is like some people, you know, are saying, you know, why we should like, tactical thing and again, to business, why we should test before the story is ready by product manager, product owner, right? And here is like, we are engaged in renovation before the war's over. So it's like, mind shifting things, you know, of course, you can go there, you can you can ask about things, you can ask him about user behaviour, and bring the more valuable increment to the place and the more viable product. So green initiative is very, very interesting thing, because there was a whole number in Ukraine, right? And we decided ethically, and morally, we could not allow other people to starve as we starve our power experience was just like that. And so there was a green initiative to share the green, you know, and we're still trying to, you know, just to keep it going while Russia is blocking this initiative, and creating peace formula and countries of new security, not only for us, but all of the countries because of the incident, we decided, you know, okay, us that good, but all of the people in the world, how we how we can do anything about it. So those consistencies strategy, you know, strategic thinking, thinking beyond the war, and going farther than the future is really, really important. So use your ethics, morale, and look for opportunities, even harder in crisis, instead of pure survival mode that our body our mental state is used to. Yeah, and I bet that, you know, Ireland have very common things. So representation of things from that we also have in Scrum, like in Agile, where it's similar things in culture, we have courage and commitment in our blood. So Ukrainians a nation of rebuilders we are we restored a lot of times after losses, loads is holding our own identity so it's first it was like fresh and require then Soviet Union story Nazis and Soviet Union. Russia, we are still rebuilding democracy. So like, we know that respect can be earned only if you hear people and we have like one of the first constitutions by Billy Porter like and it's like, we respect their opinions, we actually one of the thing that that is included in Agile matters, right? Respect the opinion of others and respect. Like cultural difference, what you know, they have been in each opinion is matters and freedom we are open to any opinion but reserved right to do is we want like we actually we actually wanted to want to leave in peace and beef, like three in terms of our own decisions and how we are we want to leave where we want to go Which kind of unions we want to, to be in, you know, it's like, we we have some borders, its borders from year 1991. And we actually want to stay in those borders. And we want to be together, you know. So that is that is what I wanted to say for today. I see that something in the chat. Yeah. So that's what I wanted to say. I would appreciate your questions or opinion, anything that you want to say? We'll be glad to hear it. Yeah. And everybody can unmute yourself. So it's self organised group. So if you want to talk, just feel free to unmute yourself. So I might start because I have actually one question. Yes, it's pleasing. So you know what? I think one of the misconceptions around Agile is like the self organisation, so it's absolutely mayhem. And you know, it's ad hoc, and everybody runs, you know, different direction. But alignment, obviously, it's very important. So self organisation happens within some kind of constraints that leadership gives. So I thought you were, you know, going back to the slide, you're talking about civilians getting guns, and, and so on. So I've heard that actually, your government at that time? You know, there was a ban on selling alcohol to make it to increase, you know, the success of that self organisation. Is that, is that correct information? Yes. It wasn't. I don't know if it's about guns, right. Like, the guns were. People are getting the guns. Yeah, it's correct. The government banned alcohol in it wasn't actually something that that was like a huge problem. They saw that it's something similar goes in the Russian army. And yeah, that's correct. That it was a constraint. That was correct. It was, it was more kind of related to ethics and moral, right. And kind of, like relationship that many people decided to be sober. Actually, they banned that for, I would say, a month. And then they started to unbind it. So yeah, they just try it and people and people. And after that people decided to be sober. Yeah. Not to be sober. But just the government decided that, you know, that may happen in our army, you know, like, we see this analysis can happen, because congressional meets, they can can be, you know, where I'm sober, I would say, and they can be, you know, friendly fire. And they decided, let it be, you know, we are the army will be, you know, this constraint, but the, they see the people, they are not drinking, you know, they want to be sober to be able to react very quickly to make quick decisions. And yeah, I know, like, a lot of it's maybe my information bulb, you know, but I know that everyone I know, they still are not drinking or drinking like zero alcohol. Thanks so much. And I will have few questions. So let's, let's Oh, and I think your next one. Yeah, please. Okay, Alexander, this really inspiring presentation. Thanks very much for taking the time to, to come online and do it. It's, it's, it's really, really impressive. And, you know, I wish you all the very best. We had a key of ballet here in Galway last weekend. And the swan lake at the end of it, they came out and sang the national anthem. And, you know, my gosh, shivers on top, your spine was fantastic. You know, so, so well done. Just a question on, you mentioned constant learning there and, you know, people running through a kind of a PDCA kind of Plan, Do Check Act, so the system, but it's under things, I was just wondering how, how the learning is being shared? You know, across the different groups. How are you? How are you doing that? Yeah. So, good question. Thank you, thank you for this information. I'm really proud of, you know, people that sharing our in our culture, you know, they go into the world, our artists, basically, yeah, they are. They're out there and they basically keep inspiring other people. So in talking about us a bit, you know, but inspiring other people more and so, yeah, basically, we, as I mentioned, we have a community of agile coaches that are spreading After Action Review, it's one of the examples. But, you know, most of the examples are. It's, it's also it's not so hard logically, I would say, but we have communities here and there that are organising themselves. Okay, we have this initiative, right? We need to go and prepare for, for the worst, let's let's learn the tactical medicine, for example. And it goes for the spread, you know, it's spreading across all the businesses, for example, and people say, oh, yeah, yeah. Let's let's share with our people and say, who was who is interesting? Yeah. So a lot of things are basically going in telegram in telegram chat. It's one of the most important thing for us right now. Because it's like communities of just creating in frustration is spreading around those communities. And, you know, the reports from community to community. And it goes like a chain reaction. So, of course, word of mouth. I think this is the most efficient still mechanism to display ads to spread the word about it's one of the examples. You have to use it is interesting. Yeah. And yeah, yeah. Sharing works. Great. Thanks very much. Thank you. Peter, do you want to go next? No. Thank you go. And thank you, Alexandre, for a very interesting and insightful talk. Thank you. I wanted to ask you a question about Scrum. What I've heard is a lot of the patterns that kind of inspired Scrum, or a lot of the patterns and principles that we practice in the scrum team. Yes. But I haven't actually heard much about Scrum itself. You know, product goals, sprint goals, you know, daily scrums, you know, kind of where, you know, where do you see? Or have you seen, you know, kind of actual Scrum or something more more closely inspired by Scrum? Yeah. Within your work? They're very good questions. Question, Peter. Of course, in like, in companies, in companies that didn't use, like Agile Scrum methods, they started to, like, with the full scale relations, they start to provide like a check ins, right. The same thing like a daily, like, in the checking was always starting from how are you? Like, are you safe? And those are the first question that we were checking in together. In a lot of business, I had two projects, and basically, I've heard from like, all of the community. So basically, like, we still kept this approach with events, like, we have dailies, we have requirements, we have review, we have retrospective, but you know, some questions, they the bit changed. And I have in army, particularly in army, they also started to provide these daily check ins, like a plan for today, how we handle like, they have, like, it's like my colleague was was serving army, like for eight months, as he introduced them. Like, in terms of constant learning, the, like, Team agreements, like things that they can just print out, like, what what they do, how they learn, what they learn, like, in which order in agreement, they printed out and put like an embark in there, like room where they can, like, see what to do, how to do and Saturday they are agreement planned for the day. And then they had basically the small retrospective, each end of the day. So it's a bit, you know, a bit faster loop, I would say, but on the day that they said, Okay, what we did wrong, or we can also learn what was kind of holding us back, you know, like, like, like an anchor what was holding us back when we are, you know, learning when we are going you know, how, how we behave, how we communicate. So, it's a constant loop that we're like, smaller than then actually to sprint was daily. Okay, so So what I heard is the timeframes are dramatically compressed. Yeah. Yes, really on a daily basis, not on a week. The bases are too weak bases are something that's good. sense of urgency was instinct, tense. You know, one of the things that, you know, Scrum was modelling was this concept of what the Americans call mission command. That is the idea. And then there's the sprint goal. That's kind of what the immediate mission is. And, you know, we want to understand the commander's intent, the overall goal so that we can best you know, we get set on a mission without we do the best we can. It's that kind of leadership style, how would you see that? You know, what most people call, you know, military style leadership is really command and control standard. Face forward march? How do you see the styles of commander in use? Yeah, thank you, Peter. That that was, I mentioned it, but you're correct. Yeah. I forgot that you asked about the sprint goal protocol? That's correct. I was trying to explain that. It, it has it plays its place, you know, the command is basically explaining the situation, explaining our pain goals, like strategic goals. And yeah, the team is collaborating across these goals, like, what will be the sprint goal, how we can deliver it, basically, with resources that we have already have resources? So it's not everywhere? I would say, but it's because we still have like, this legacy mindset of Soviet era, you know, from here and there. But it's, it's changing. And newborn, for example, I don't know if you heard right now we're gathering like 60 60,000 people, it's called how to translate it. Like attack squats, something, something like that. So the newest news born, you know, tactical groups they use that they use is the problem statement, you know, like, like a product goal. And they use it to explain goal, what we can do with current resources here. What we need, actually. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Gabrielle, the last the last last question. Okay. Good. Okay. Thank you. And thank you for the presentation. I have a question that is assumption and a presumption at the same time. So I'm assuming that in a context like that information is something very, very critical. And you have lack of information, culture information, and everything is completed. And I think in from outside, in that position, I believe that the shorter circ cycles helped you to mitigate that problem is that? Yes, yes, you're totally correct. The real. You know, like, in the news, you see that even some US base like, newspapers, like huge brands, they, they send very controversial things, you know, tell very controversial things, and a lot of information that's coming from battlefields, you know, it's also, you know, it's shouldn't be filtered. Like, we really have, like a couple of couple, we have media and official resources, and our official resources, you know, always saying trust official resources, you know, and wait for the information from official sources. And, you know, they are like parrots, the same thing that again and again, and people get used to it, but yet, actually, we, first of all, our governments showed that they can be trusted, we can rely on them. And then we can, you know, rely on the information that they are sending. And, okay, we can. So there are the institute's special Institute's and initiatives that are called, like institutes of disinformation, right, that that are basically writing the stories, how they uncovered the fake news, like the fake information, where it's going from, and people also learning to this critical thinking and understand how they should approach the information to this huge work is going on. Like under the hood. Yeah, because because really, really, you're you're right, a lot of information is coming. So in this constant loop, and, you know, a lot of things that people saw on the all night and you know, this word is very different from Second World War because of the civilian forms, you know, things that you can capture on camera, it's actually it's like a, like a kind of kind of a game changer, right? Because it goes from the camera, you can validate the person by face, you can understand what was happening, you know, not the cut of it, but the whole video, if it's, you know, reliable, you can analyse that a lot of, we have this special initiative. And it's within the government app called DM, it's called your work, it's like, there is an enemy, right. And any person can feel something, you know, or report something that is common, and it helped in first months of work very much still helping, so they can film it stand, and then it filtered by government, it's true information or something, and then act and decision and compare a couple of fact checking right, compare a couple of sources, and then make a decision. So it's a huge work going on under the hood. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, John, please. No, I just wanted to wrap it up, because we the time came to finish. So thank you very much for taking the time to sharing those experiences with us Alexandra. It was definitely inspirational for me. It's, it's great to see how agile actually can help people with the day to day lives under in those, you know, very difficult circumstances. So thank you very much again for taking the time