Agile-Lean Ireland (ALI) Podcast

3 Coaching Essentials for Effective Agile Leadership with LIz Barron - Agile-Lean Ireland

October 18, 2023 Agile-Lean Ireland
Agile-Lean Ireland (ALI) Podcast
3 Coaching Essentials for Effective Agile Leadership with LIz Barron - Agile-Lean Ireland
Show Notes Transcript

The biggest challenge for anyone leading Agile change (or any change) is to successfully transform culture and change human behaviour, enabling team members to learn more efficient ways of working and collaborating so that they can deliver business value and ROI earlier.
This is where managers and agile leaders may be missing a vital component... working on building their core coaching skills and competencies. Many people mistakenly believe that coaching is all about giving instruction, guidance, telling people what to do. That can be useful sometimes, but it doesn't encourage team members to be more self-sufficient, to problem-solve for themselves, to have more agency and empowerment when it comes to how they work. This is where real coaching can help.

Join us for an interactive session to get a taste of the top 3 coaching skills that can help you become a more impactful leader and maximise your influence.... to ensure there's clarity, commitment and accountability. Whether you're a leader or team member, you'll take away some practical tips for having more impactful conversations with your colleagues and clients - and who doesn't want that?!
Aimed at: Project & Programme Managers, Agile Leaders & Coaches, Agile Team members

Find us here:

So today talk is very unusual. Because it's it's it's we are trying to to serve also outside of our community. So I believe through master, other coaches will know exactly what coaching is about. But very often managers they would have coaching in a job descriptions. But very often not exactly knowing what coaching is and how to actually what to do with it. So we invited today, Liz Barra, who is Elise, will do her own introduction in few seconds. But I will just give a very quick highlight of you know, what to expect. So a lease. He's saying. Mentor and supervisor coach with ICF. ICF stands for International Coaching Federation. It's a globally recognised body for accrediting coaches. I know Liz because she was my supervision, Mary coach. So that's how we get to know each other. List also has a background in it, which is really good. Because she's, you know, one of us. She knows what she's talking about, and she knows. How to eat it? So this is this is this is very, you know, brief introduction and to at least please add to it whatever you would like our audience to know about.

Oh, that's great. Thank you very much. Uh, Joanna and Oday for uh, facilitating today. So I don't. Have to worry about. In the uh chat and all that kind of thing, it's great to get a sense of where everybody's joining. From. So that's fantastic. Uhm, let me. Just uh, share my uh slides here and I presume that we can distribute these afterwards if uh if needed so.

Yes. Yeah. Thanks very much for reminding me list. So anybody, if you if you not on the newsletter yet, please sign up because this lines will be distributed via our newsletter communication.

Yeah. So.

Great. Thanks Joanna. UM, so, uh, Joanna gave the brief introduction and obviously that's how we know each other because UM, you know. I've been working as a coach. For quite a long time and uh, doing coaching, supervision, training and mentoring as well for coaches and just this subject, it's fascinating to me because it's. It's really about how do we, how do we make sure that it's not just about sitting down and having a formal coaching session with somebody, but how do we integrate. The core skills of coaching into leading in an agile environment or in any environment for that matter. So just briefly, this meandering river that is life. Uh. My story. Uh again is just, you know, have a background in IT projects and change management. Uh back into the last century and uh business consulting a lot of facilitation and training and even agile mentoring in the early 2000s. So that was really back in the bleeding edge when adult was very new and uh, you know, we had some success with this. In terms of. Encouraging business and IT to collaborate and more effectively. So that was, you know that was really interesting and and I became realised that I sort of realised that I was actually even more interested in the people and how they think and how they collaborate and what works and so on. And I trained them as a person in. The business coach. Back in 2009 and set up my own coaching practise, so I'm involved in, you know, executive leadership, coaching team, coaching and if you like encouraging leaders and managers to use coaching skills as whether as well, whether they want to be a formally qualified coach or they just want to get better at leading and managing their team. So I just want to maybe check in with with the chat, uh, if people want to maybe just say, well, what does coaching mean to you? And I know a lot of you will will know this. So just wondering, you know is is there a short phrase? What does coaching mean for you when you when? You think about it. If you feel like typing into the chat we did say we'd make this interactive. So we'll try and. Keep it as as, uh, interactive and conversational as they can. Guidance Alex is saying, yeah. Leadership, yeah. Yeah, being curious. I like it. Yeah, support trust. Listening first. Yeah. Helping others to reach a solution. Helping people be the best they can be helping you uncover your own thinking. Active listening, yeah.

How to avoid child support? Well, one thing you can do is fake your death over half a million people go single year. Why can't or?

So yeah, helping the coachee to identify the solutions.

North Korea.

So. Umm. OK, great. So meeting the person where they're at and working with them to reach their best. So yeah, great stuff. So just to make sure that, uh, we all have that kind of same definition, I suppose a lot of people. And when you think about sports coaching and in sports here in Ireland and. I'm sure all. Over the world, you know, we think about coaches as being people who run up and down the sidelines. And kind of shout instructions. People, uhm, and sometimes you know I've heard of people talking in the workplace like a coach is someone who stands behind you and and you know eggs you on and sort of. Tells you what to do. And we're we're talking about it something different. Exactly like a lot of you have have mentioned. And the reason why the tennis ball is here. Does anybody want to hazard a guess why? The tennis ball is here. OK, I'm just going to jump on ahead and say the one of the key founders of the whole coaching movement was a guy called Tim Galway who wrote a book called The Inner Game of Tennis Back in the 1970s. And the key difference was he was getting on OK as a tennis coach and he was telling his students this is how you need to play your backhand. This is what you need to do here. This is what you need to do there. And one day he realised that if he asked them a question and said what way is the ball spinning as it passes over the net? So what? He's inviting them to do is to pay more attention to what's going on right in. The moment. And then ask them. So what do you think you need to do to make go where you want to go? So it's a whole. Different approach to UM. How we have those conversations with people? Uh, so? You know what? It's not is about telling people what to do and how to do it. And what it is again, a lot of you mentioned a lot of the things here, creative thought provoking conversations, empowering people to move towards awareness, action and growth. UM, and you know, I know because I hear it from coaches and I hear it from clients and I hear it from teams that I'm working with. Uh, you know, there is huge challenges that we're dealing with in the workplace. We've come through an extremely turbulent and difficult UM. Time in history and uh, obviously things are still very volatile and uncertain and challenging. Uh, complex and UM, ambiguous. So you know, we've all this lack of resources, you know, competing priorities, no clarity, resistance to change all of these kind of challenges and the bottom line is that. Leaders like yourselves can become overloaded and bottlenecks. UM, if we're being asked to advise and give instruction and you know, please tell me what to do. And so that is, I suppose one of the key challenges. And and in terms of uh, you know why coaching might be essential if we look at some research that was done by Harvard Business School last year, they're saying that the key qualities that are needed for for digital transformation and moving forward are about adaptability. So the ability to kind of figure things out on the fly, obviously that fig. That fits with the like an agile kind of mindset. Uhm, curiosity. Somebody mentioned that in the chat, so it's really trying to uncover what is going on with them. UM, creativity, encouraging creativity and being comfortable with ambiguity. So understanding that, UM, things are going. To be very. Most word cloudy for a while and and and we have to be able to kind of work with and through that. So that article is is on, uh, the Harvard website. If you want to look up 6 unexpected traits and really the key message in it is a really good article is it's about moving from what you might call command and control to empowering. So if someone is not doing what you want them to do, rather than kind of doubling down on that. What about trying a different way? So UM. You know, we bring a lot of baggage, ourselves included, and we can't treat people like machines. Uhm, they're not clones. We're not clones. Well, most of us are not clones just yet. Uh, we are uniquely human, and it sounds like a bit of a, you know, cliche. But if you think about all of the ways that we're different apart from the visible different. Uh, you know, personality styles, I think you might have had a presentation recently about this. Uh, the four colour energies and all of that kind of thing. Uh, you know, some people have a preference for being quieter, more on the introversion side. Some people prefer. To be more extroverted, more outgoing. Uh, more high energy. Some people like task orientation. Some people like. You know, uh people orientation and we have a mixture of all of those. Characteristics uh individually, but everyone is different. Uh, we've different pay behaviour patterns, different cultural backgrounds and heritage. We've come from different family systems, you know, different types of relationships with authority figures. You know different value systems, these things are all kind of interdependent and and different experiences we've come through different paths in life. So by the time we all get to sit in a room together, virtually or. In person and. We've all come on very different journeys so. We can't ever say oh. Well, you know, people are robots. Or people are the same. Everybody will see situations in their own way. So it's just kind of being conscious of that. And and I I was asking the question about, you know from the agile manifesto's perspective, do we really value people over process? And and and a research project that was carried out in Google uh some years ago really determined that when they were looking at what really makes us successful team, it was this factor of psychological safety. So people will talk about it. Safe space. I mean, you can't say it's a safe. You can't just make a safe space by saying it's a. UM, it's created by. I love this word ostentatious listening, so ostentatious meaning. Really obvious and authentic. So it's not just about, you know. Oh, yes. I'll take the boxes and I'll ask the questions and I'll nod and I'll mirror them. And you know, all that kind of stuff. It's actually really caring about what this, what's going on with this person and and showing them that you're listening and that you're working to understand. And and then there's the equality of conversation. So it means that everyone in the team, everybody in the group, feels like they're free to speak, that they get equal opportunities to speak, and that they are. Heard and they speak. So all of this means that people have better collaboration, more willing to experiment, and they're open to feedback, which is is again one of one of the challenges sometimes. So what we're going to do here is we're going to focus on, OK, we have all of these challenges. Uhm, we understand that. UM, you know, people want to feel like they matter in the environment that they work in. And so we want to focus on what we can control or influence as leaders or as managers, and hopefully by doing that. That we also model that for other. People. So you might have come across this before? Uhm, it's the seven habits of highly effective from the seven habits. UM, but it's the idea of having different circles of control, things that we can control, things that we can infer. So you know the circle of concern is stuff that gets into our heads every day. The traffic, the environment, uh, you know what the latest policy on? I don't know. Overtime is in your in your uh in your company. Uh. You know what? What your partner. Uh wants to have for. Dinner and all of these things are. All things that kind of. Might be flying around in. Our what we might call our circle of concern. And what we're inviting everybody to do is say. OK. Well, all of. These things take up headspace. How can we focus more on what we how? We can influence. What's going on? And. Even more to targeting on what we can control. And there's only. A very small amount of things we often try to control, things that at best we might be able to influence. So we work really hard to try and maintain control over this over certain things, and in reality we might be able to. But really what we're trying to do is recognise there are lots of things we can. Influence by changing our. You know preconceptions by changing our beliefs and so on. So, UM, and then we might have things that are of no concern. So what I'd invite you to do at some point if you want to. Take a screenshot of. That or or whatever, uh, or go and have a look at it online, there's loads of examples of it. It's just even think about from your own point of view like, what are things that you worry about and give a. Lot of head. Space to UM, you know in. In each of these categories and how can you maybe make focus more on the things that really matter and that you that you choose to do something about? So on to the three essentials of coaching, which that's what we said on the tin. Uh. So I'm sure. These phrases will look familiar to lots of you, if not all of you. Uh, you'll recognise them as the first few stages from UM design thinking. And what I felt was that actually coaching core pure coaching skills really line up very well with these and their ways of of actually making this work. So you know, clarity is about determining the goal. What does better look like. In a conversation. That power skill there is. Goal setting. How? Do you make sure that you are? Hear about what you're moving towards or what you want to move towards. Empathising is about being curious, questioning, seeking to understand, identifying pain points, looking at what, how it's impacting the person you're having the conversation with. And then under ideation, it's about opening up the conversation into. You know, exploring solutions, disrupting thinking. So this is about exploring what's possible, visioning what are possible options, possible solutions. UM, and we haven't forgotten about the other the other parts, but we did say we'd focus on three. So I think if you get these three things. Right. The the actions and the solutions just naturally follow. What we're going to do now is, uh, Joanna has kindly volunteered to be the victim. I mean, the volunteer for. A short conversation today and we're going to set up, UM, a coaching conversation. You know, that would be like Joanna's coming to me. I'm her line manager and she has a challenge with somebody in her team who's underperforming, and we're just going to explore, explore, choosing some coaching kind of. Techniques if you want, UM, so I'd just like you to maybe take out a pad and pen and and say, well, is there anything different about this conversation that you would notice from a normal line manager conversation? UM, think about where you might notice the three essentials that we've talked about. Clarity, curiosity, creativity. You know what's the impact of that? So if you just want to kind. Of observe UM. Hopefully won't be too much of A. Car crash and UM. I will stop sharing that so that you can see hopefully myself and Joanna. So I've pinned Joanna now, so I. Can just see her face. So it's like we're having a proper conversation. In the workplace. So. We're going to take maybe about 8 to 10 minutes, OK. So Joanna. What would you like to talk? About today what's on your mind?

So least I would like to discuss with you Alex. Because I I feel that things are turning, you know to, you know, they are worse. Every every, every Sprint it's, you know, it's worse and worse.

Yeah, like in what way?

Uh, Alex, Alex had you know, another argument this week with another team member? And again, it's not not performing and you know, not not responding well to feedback. It's not great.

OK, OK. And what kind of impact does this having on the team?

Ohh, the dynamic on the team is awful. Now everybody you know, it's everybody blames everybody. You know it's it's not right, it's. It's really bad actually.

And UM. What? You know what's your sense of what, what's going on?

Since Alex just doesn't care like it's, you know, to do minimum, you know, effort to put the minimum effort and to as you know, as little as possible, yeah. And he doesn't care about quality at all.

Yeah. And you sound a bit fed up with all of this.

Yeah, it consumes lots of my time. Like, you know this team like, I have three teams and this team is taking, you know, huge chunk of my. Time. It's not fair on other teams in the.

And UM. Would you you know? Is is it possible that do you think he understands the the role that's expected of him? Is he clear about what's expected?

Well, I guess if you are a developer, you kind of know what what's your job about, isn't it? I'm not sure if you had any conversation with the line manager, his line manager or her line manager, but. It's, you know, programmer, it's a programmer, isn't it?

What what might what might be going on there?

I don't know. She's very negative and she's she's very on the fence. Like at the moment, I think she she's having such a hard time. She's constantly responding, you know, in defensive mode.

So I'm sure that's having an impact on him as well.

I I'm sure he does.

So I'm just uh. I'm just wondering what's kind of within your control here.

UM. Well, I could request to to to to have him change. You know, I can request for the new developer.

And what would that solve?

Would resolve my problem as long as her, you know, she doesn't go to my other team.

That could just move the problem along, right? So what's your? What's your energy level for? For working to fix this?

Well, I I feel like tried everything. You know, the retrospectives are very unproductive. You know, you cannot very much talk to Alex and he's not very, you know, communicative, like, he's like, there's not much communication there. So I don't know, it's. I I feel like I hit the wall. I tried everything.

And if if the other team members are clear about sort of what's expected of them and how, what it? Means to be. Part of this team, do you think Alex? Has the same understanding.

I don't know, to be honest with you. Maybe there is a language barrier, I'm not sure.

Like in what? In what sense are you thinking?

So it's, you know, he's not a native speaker. Maybe there is a, you know there is something missing in communication.

OK. Do you want to say but or about that?

Well, to be honest with you, I'm not sure what's the what's the onboarding process. So I don't know if anybody you know if he has any mentor or if you know anybody show him the job. I don't know how you know, like his English is good, but it's not brilliant, you know, like, so I don't know if he understands everything. And he definitely not asks. He doesn't ask if he doesn't.

So it's possible that he might feel a bit isolated.

I think for sure. Because you can even see, you know, like she's on her own. Like most of the time.


So what would you like to happen here?

UM. Well, I I think I come to you too for some kind of solution because I don't know you know what what to do like I feel I tried everything so now I need you to tell me what? What you want me to do.

Well, you're closer to it than I am, so I'm. I'm just wondering, you know, what have you not tried?

I tried everything. To be honest with you.

So what have you tried?

Retrospectives. Not productive. I I I watched the you know the dynamic on the team and you know when when, when things are happening and to be honest with you, Alex is always on the fence. But in in all fairness. She's always blamed. So. So she's, you know, like straight away into defence mode. So the dynamic there is not great. The team, you know, doesn't have a great open conversations. You know, people will ***** behind his back. A lot I did. I did try to to tell people to to to raise those issues at the retrospective, but it wasn't productive so far.

So, have you ever been in a situation like that yourself, feeling isolated or disconnected from the rest of the team?

Yeah, I did, yeah.

So what? What worked for you?

I guess he's probably lonely, you know, he he doesn't seem that there is any, any, any. He has anybody or anybody there to to support him and to even you know, show him anything if he doesn't understand even like person who who can like he can go and ask. OK my I misunderstood it. Can you please tell me what's happening.

So again, if you were in that situation, what what would help? What action could be taken?

Well, I guess we could. I could discuss with the team to to having a body body system and pairing, pairing her with somebody and maybe that would help at least to, you know, in terms of clarifying things and things like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Anybody and anybody come to mind?

Yeah. So it seems uhm. And she's quite neutral. She doesn't seem to be too impatient with him. So maybe Angie.


Maybe one final question, what other support do you think you might need to? Take action on this.

I think I might talk to John to see what was the onboarding process, if if there there is a for you know. Clarity it it, it seems to be honest. If we were speaking. I it hit me when I was saying it out loud that you know the role of programmer. It's not that clearly there because, you know, we expect programmers to follow some standards. I don't know if Alex knows those standards. You know, we expect them to test their own work before they send it to testing. And I don't know if anybody explained that to him. I don't know if there was, to be honest with you. Like, everybody is so busy. I would. I'm surprised if there was no onboarding process at all.

So, I mean, he might be feeling terribly confident then about taking on and taking ownership and getting stuck in really, would he?

Ohh yeah, he's not cooking at. All, yeah.

OK, so what's what's next for you?

In terms of what will I do? Like, sorry, what's what so? I will check with Angie if she would be OK to body with Alex and I guess you know I will. I will suggest that to Alex. I don't know if she he will pick up on that idea, but I think you know it would be good if she did. And and then I will talk to John as well to find out if Alex went through proper onboarding process.

How are you feeling now versus when we started the conversation?

Well, you know, like at least there is some plan. You will see how that goes, but at least you know there is there is there is a. You know that there is something. I think Angie might might be able to help, at least with miscommunication. So I think at least that that part might improve.

Yeah. OK, great. Thanks, Joanna.

Thank you. And everybody, I just want to highlight that I didn't go crazy. I know that Liz was saying he and I was saying she and then the other way because I didn't want to. I didn't want to, you know, define this is.

We didn't want a gender stereotype.

This OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

UM and I might even ask. Uh, Joanna just you know, if you were, uh, a colleague coming to their manager in that situation, was there anything you found that might be a bit different about that? And we asked other people what they. Might have observed as well.

I really like that you pushed the solution on me. I have to say I really like it because basically what I was doing, pushing the responsibility on you. You tell me what to do and I'm and I really. You know that's that's that's everybody knows it. But even when I was speaking you feel that OK the weight is back on you.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and it may not be what you think. You want, you know, because for a lot of people it's like here. Manager, please sort this out for me. Umm, I have enough on my plate. But the problem is that you know. If people get overloaded with all sorts of of, you know things like that, then it's impossible to do anything. So we're really trying to do is empower people kind of at the point of need, uh, to be able to have those conversations. Uh, and I know this is a kind of a third party we're talking. You know someone else who's who's not directly involved, but like, typically there are some of the challenges that that managers have. So just wondering if people wanted to type into the chat or UM, if they have, if they have anything that they, uh, that they observed about that, that might have been a bit different or that you felt had a particular impact. So it wouldn't be like a pure coaching session where I'm a coach. And I'm not involved at all. It is slightly different. Anyone got any observations or things that they thought worked?

So at least we we already have some comments in the chart. So, uh, if you, I do want to. Yeah. Sorry. No. Yeah. Yeah. The comments are starting to to I, sorry. Yeah, go on.

Great. Yeah, so. Patricia says asking to get someone else involved. Yeah. And it's not even trying to lead them. It's just saying, what other support do you need? I think the challenge is that a lot of the time, as a manager, you might say so how can I help you with this? And I would say don't assume. That they need your help. You know it's it's asking an open question that's not leading them in any way. It might, you know, what resources, what other support might they need to actually move this forward? Don't don't make them dependent on you anymore than they have to be. Any any other observations about what might have been different? Your manager is neutral, not just on the side of his team member. Checked in with how the Coachee feels. Yeah, and the curiosity piece like, I think it's really important if someone's coming to you with the problem, sometimes the. Fact that they are. Stressed out by the problem or you know, it's one of 20 things that's on their mind and it it makes them less able to see a way forward. So in a way, by you being curious about the. And really exploring it with them, that really helps them to kind of go, oh, OK, Now, now The thing is starting to kind. Of become more UM. I suppose looser and more easy to to work through. Yeah. And energy level to deal to deal with this. And again we didn't script that like we just sort of outlined the scenario and and just talked generally speaking about you know what it was. So UM, it's the idea is to open it out. So it's back to this idea, we're not robots. People are people. People behave the way they behave because. Of who they? And as managers or leaders, if we ignore that and I know a lot of the time people. Are reluctant to ask. Sort of kind of searching questions. UM, because they don't want to upset somebody or they feel it's maybe, you know, overstepping. But again, you know, if we really care about the person and if we want, it's not so much that the answer is we need for ourselves, it's answers they need for themselves. So it's helping them to. See what might be getting in. Their way and. Exploring the impact of on people not only on the business. Yeah, uh. Questioning uh grace. Yeah, any anything else?

Can I say something? I just don't want to type it in. Sorry, Liz. Fair play to there. OK. Because Joanne didn't make it easy for you either. You you were definitely. You're definitely flying by the seat of your pants, but uh, well done. And you and, like you like, I've coached many people over the years and sometimes it's trying to extract them and really get them.

Hi, Robert. Yeah. She did not.

To put them in the frame of mind to think. And well, giving them that space, but knowing that you're on a time limit, I told His Excellency. Very well. Done you. Know because that can be a challenge, especially in. A supposing example environment, which is what we're in at this moment in time, you know, so.

Yeah, but yeah, and we're also trying to say this is not about going out and booking a meeting room for like an hour. You know, this is just very quick in the moment. You have a challenge. How can I help you? So if our default response? Is to say. Right, Joanna, you need to go off and make sure he's really clear or she's really clear about, you know, what the team expects and what his role is, what her role is. All of that stuff. You know that's it's not that. It's not helpful sometimes, but what we're really trying to do is teach or show somebody how they can problem solve for themselves and and the other thing is if you've told them something.

It's it's yours is not theirs, yeah.

What's the likelihood? Yeah, exactly. What? What's, what's the likelihood that they're going to go? Oh, great. That's a brilliant idea. Off I go to do it. You know, the chances are they'll go. That's not going to work. And then they do nothing. So really, the idea is you're trying to kind of almost Co design and tease out a solution from this person or at least an action they can try. That's something different to what they've tried, or maybe a slightly different approach to how they've, uh, faced it before. UM, so uh yeah, the manager asking the right questions, defining the problem statement in clear language. Unless the problems understood. Of course we can't find the root cause. Yeah. And and Joanna says when you asked me what else you did, I like that as I know next time when I. Come to you, I. Already need to have a list of things I tried to resolve. Yeah. Good. Uhm, yeah, because you hear people talk about don't come to me with problems. Come to me with solutions. But part of your role maybe, or where you can add value as a leader and a manager. Is to create the space Robert mentioned space and you create a bit of space where you can explore. Rather than giving them a solution where you can explore it together, so you're partnering. OK, if there's anything else, yes, sure.

And so list list. I will see Felicia has her hand up.

What's your question, Alicia or?

Yeah. No, it's not a question, just a statement. It's very helpful to as you you mentioned, Liz, to tease out. Solutions because what happens is sometimes the person may feel that they've exhausted all of the options and they're they're kind of stuck and what you're doing is helping them to think further and to come up with something. Themselves to be accountable, get some kind of ownership, and sometimes you don't have it in your head. But when you're talking it out, it allows you more levity to. To come up with some more solutions, you the person who's experiencing the issue.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Creating space and also really, I mean, to my mind, that's what true collaboration is like. Neither of us has the answer here. Has has you know, as I said, Joanna's closer to the problem than I am, so I don't really know exactly what's going on, so if I come in with my big, you know, Sledgehammer solution, that's not maybe gonna work either. So it's it's it's Co creating a solution. And or helping, you know, helping Joanna to create. A solution that. Could work. There's no guarantees, but it's worth a try, right? Thanks, Felicia.

And before we actually go into questions and answers, can I actually, I forgot to say something. So can I kidnap that part of the session for two announcements first announcement and we are aware that some of you actually grouped in the room and there is we had at some at peak time we had over 100 people on on this.

You're absolutely yeah.

Yeah, but we also know that some people gather together. So if you want to take a picture of you, if you are in. Group and tag us on Ali on LinkedIn. That would be great because it would give us some idea how many people actually are watching us. You know which topics are popular. It gives us some, you know, data analytics and so on. So that would be great if you can. But obviously, unless you tag us, we won't see it. So you have to tag. Ali, for us to see it. In case we are exploring option, what you know with different topics and towards speakers. So if you attended some interesting talk and you know that it would be good for our community, you know somebody who is trying something, they might have a success story, but they might also have a great case study of what not to do. And they learn a lot because they made lots of mistakes and now at least we can learn from them what not to do. Also, please share that with, you know, those those contact people with us and we'll be very happy to follow up and and invite them to our. We are community for community so we want to learn from each other. That's the same you. If you have any any taste of any theories, frameworks, anything any thought that you want to share with our community please write to us and we'll be very happy to accommodate that. Right. Thanks very much. And back to you Liz.

Yes, thanks. Uh, Joanna. So I'll come on to questions now shortly. But Speaking of questions, uh, what I wanted to do next was maybe to. Share. OK, so how did we do that? Not really. A lot of it is about open questions. You can also kind of sum up what you're what you're hearing from the other person, you know, so you kind of. You help them hear back what the challenge is. UM, so I'm just going to share some questions and you might want to take a screenshot of this maybe. So you're not waiting to get get slide deck. So I'm just suggesting some questions that you might choose at different stages or any stage of the conversation you might sort of zigzag back and forth between. And so a lot of this is about really good listening, about open questions about not sort of assuming anything really. And so in the define or in the clarity stage, we're saying what you want to achieve from our conversation, I don't think I actually did that at the beginning. It was like, so Joanna, what would you like to, you know? What are you going to leave here? How can I help? In other words, and I think I'd avoid using that because that means straight away that's an invitation. UM for your colleague to say. Oh, I want you to do this, this and this. What we're trying to do is sort of maybe hold that off. It's not to say that we're not going to help, but what we do is that's an action that is that we take if it's appropriate. So what do you want to achieve? What are you aiming for? What's within your control here? What can you? Influence. What would a better situation look like? You know, if this situation was solved, how would you like to see things working? Why is it important to solve this now? What happens if you do nothing? All of that is all about getting clarity on why this problem is important and what they're trying to achieve so much stuckness and so much inertia comes from not really knowing what, how you want things to look in the future. And then in the Empathised stage and again you. Know these are. Not necessarily like a process that goes linearly. You could be moving around this, UM, what could be going on here? What's your theory? What's your hypothesis about what might be going on here? Uh, what's getting in your way? What's the biggest concern? How's it impacting on you? You might say. Here's what I'm noticing. I'm seeing that. Seems to be really causing you a lot of stress and you know, you know that must be affecting you. And is it affecting the team as well? So you know. You're making observations about what you're seeing in front of you, not judgements. You're making kind of observations about how how it's impacting on on the other person.

So really to would you, would you be able literally in 30 seconds or less than a minute to explain difference between judgement and observation?

And then in the yeah.

Sorry, I'm putting you on the spot. I know it, but I think thank you.

Well, that's OK. Yeah, it's it's one of my favourite themes. So I could go. Yeah, to keep it short. Uh to me, judgements and curiosity are the opposites. So judgement is you've evaluated information of whatever kind and you've come to a conclusion. So you've made-up your mind. Whereas curiosity. The open mind it's asking questions. It's, you know what? Like what's going on here? What might be happening? We don't have an actual detailed answer for that yet, but there's some possibilities that that could be going on that we're not weren't really thinking about before. So if we ask that wider question. Does that answer your question?

I was just clarifying for everybody else, so I hope that it makes it clear now, but yeah, perfect.

Thank you. Very, very quickly you mentioned. So listening, OK and it's coming back, comes back to Joanne's question. And and you said look at judgmental's the opposite curiosity, I agree with you fully.

Yeah, good. Uh. Sure. Hi Robert.

Because sometimes and this is for everybody in. The room when someone is speaking and you think you get what they're saying and we have a tendency to go. Yeah, I know what you're I know. I I'm finishing your sentence for you.

I know what you mean, yeah.

Yeah, it's worthwhile. Sometimes. Exactly. Yeah. No, it's worth it is worthwhile just to step back a little bit and just hear them out because we may. You may cut across somebody and you might lose the threads. You know, so that's that's just all I want to say and apologise for interrupting.

No, no, that's a really good point because like language means different things to different people. So it's again, it's really important maybe at that point you say, OK, so. Uh. When they've finished, you might say, OK, so here's. So let me just check that I've got this right and this is even more important when you don't agree with somebody. UM, because you know you could be getting ready to just. Well, now that's completely ridiculous sort of thing. And and you're already kind of preparing your argument against. Whatever they've said. But their opinion is still their opinion. So so this. Is back to how do we create safety for people to speak? Even when people have differing points of view or different perspectives. So yeah, uh, so that's the curiosity piece and trying to avoid making judgments and even noticing when you're making judgments. Uhm, you know, because our brains work really quickly and we we make deductions that we're we're not always aware. UM, so creativity? What's possible? What haven't you tried before? If someone else does is in a similar situation, what would you advise? That question that I asked about, you know, so if you were in that situation yourself. You know what would be useful to? You again, it just it just kind of creates a different way of thinking about it and and and hopefully creates a bit. Of empathy as well. For for the other person who's who's kind of experiencing something you know clearly, they're probably not happy either, you know, but they may not know. How to how to fix it? Or or how to move? Forward and what are all your options? Because being human, we tend to seize on the first solution and we go right, that's. Where and off I. Go. But actually by sort of teasing it out a little bit and saying, OK, actually you might come up with an even better solution or combination of those solutions. And we won't forget about the other. You know, prototype and test parts of the design. Thinking model that. You know somebody asked about how do you make sure that they become accountable? In one sense, because they've been involved in designing and exploring and coming up with a possible solution. They're much more likely to take action on. It so it's. How can you experiment with this? What might be one step forward? Where could you start, you know, and then it's about OK. When will we check in on this again? Or do you want, you know, do you? Want to let me know how it goes? But it's important. To really trust the other person that they can handle it or. They're they're certainly able to kind of. Take it to the next stage. UM so. UM. Yeah, I'm just going back to the chat here to just see anything that sticks out to you. Uh, Joanna that. Coaches talk. How can the coach empower the mentees? So that's yeah, really. What? What's your where? Do you go from here? What? Are you going to do is? The is the empowering and action oriented kind of question. So Rahul is asking about, uh, topics we might have to share. I'm I'm not sure how to.

Answer that I I will answer that yes. Sorry I didn't see. It I will answer it now, yeah.

Oh yeah, that's that's to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so, uh. Just to say briefly that we've been in discussion, uh, I've been in discussion with that Arlene Ireland about coming up with a programme that's really designed to learn more about the core skills of coaching, so the power skills to coach your team. And UM, that's going to be a 2 1/2 day programme, both hybrid and online, and we have dates being settled for April and May next year and I'll be delivering it. Uh and yeah, so more details will be coming soon. So the QR code there and you can scan. And register your interest if that's something that you want to learn more about. And uh. Yeah, Sharon is saying also include when you're going to start. Yeah. So when are you going to? Do that. I think sometimes you can kind of gauge from somebody where you know they they. Yeah, in like in, in a, in a professional coaching context, you're you're there to make. Sure that the the coachee. Is accountable for what they commit to. UM, but they choose how they're going to be accountable. It might be slightly different if you are their manager, so. You know, this might be where you're. You're, UM, being a bit more proactive than that and saying come back and report back to me or whatever. And again, that's part of the support that they might need. They might need somebody to just know that. Their line manager is aware of this challenge and so on. OK, so I'm going to move on to uh. Any questions or questions? What are they?

Can we stop showing maybe a list? So so for questions so we can look at each other and if you can switch on the cameras again, that's the last last chance to put some names on the on the people faces. And then when you meet next time, you know each other already.

Yeah, sure.

Any any questions, anybody?

And obviously if people. Have questions or want to contact? Me directly on LinkedIn or. By e-mail. Please do.

No questions. So would anybody have any reflections? How how do you how do you see the coaching and managerial responsibility going together? Uh, is that a skill that that you know, it's well understood across managers or not always like what are your observations? From the workplaces.

I don't think that's a really common skill. I I think that a lot. Of managers, probably. Day-to-day or just trying to get to it right, they're sort of in pressurised organisations so they're trying, they just transmit that pressure on and the idea of kind of doing what you 2 demonstrated so beautifully, right. Requires really settling. Into that moment in time. And most of them probably. Wouldn't say they have that freedom. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A lot of the time it's easier to just offer the solution and move on. To the next fire. Thanks, Madeline.

Yeah, I feel the same that sometimes there is no time for coaching because it takes time, doesn't it? So you have to have a meeting, you have to think for yourself. Go away, do something, experiment with it. Maybe it doesn't work. Maybe it works. And so on. So these things take time. And while there is a kind of boss word, yeah, you will be a coach and and so on. You are not given this time. And then your coach is or whatever they they are. They aren't given the time to. So you just tell them what to do, and then the next day they they should do that, but they don't anyway. But yeah, so they're that's what I feel that. Yeah, will not not only like the skills, but this this acceptance that this takes time. Yeah.

And at the same time. You know. That took about 8 minutes. So it wasn't a 60 minute conversation or anything, you know, so. And I think Raul has a question. He seems to have his hand up.

Yeah. So as a manager, right there are. Broadly, I mean to broadly. Differentiate. There are 4 roles that the manager is required to play. Sometimes a counsellor, sometimes a coach, sometimes a consultant and sometimes a. Teacher from the taps model. I'm taking this out so one needs to understand which hat to wear when and when. It comes to specifically to coaching. It's it's a dedicated role, right? You need to invest time with your coaching to first of all create that sense of safety. And only then will the Kochi be able to open up really about what the problems are and many a times. During your role as a manager, you don't have enough time, so you end up giving the solution right there and then. But that sometimes does not help, so something that I have been following with my whenever I do coaching is that every time I'm required to give a solution. I tried to ask a question as to OK I'm giving you a solution, but you have to answer to. Me why this? Is the right solution and it has worked so many times that the person comes back. Me and says that yeah, you give me a solution. It worked this time. But I think the reason is something else. And I have a better solution. So many a times the coaching himself or herself came, comes forward and gives us an even better solution.

Grace, thanks for UM and and what I just want to ask people if just if there's one thing or tip or. Useful approach that they. Came across today that they might like to try. That might be handy to type into the chat, but just to build on that point role. UM, yeah, you know, you do have to recognise and people are in different places and if someone is in, is in a very junior kind of capacity. They're going to need more teaching. They're going to need more hand holding guidance. Uhm, but I think we also can't make assumptions about how you know how good people's problem solving ability is. And. If we keep giving solutions, then we create a dependence on us and I think it's always important to kind of just challenge that. How do you, you know, it's like having small kids. How do you get them to think for themselves? UM, so as you said, it's not always appropriate, but there are lots more conversations that could be peppered into without it being a formal conversation. Uh May is just saying. Ask more questions. Yeah, ask more questions.

And please sorry, I think we have very interesting observation there in the chat. So somebody pointed you need coaches to be ready to be coached, but really because this is not normal, this is what we actually discussed with this yesterday because this is not typical coaching scenario session when I'm. Going to list with and with her coaching contract because I have a problem. I need her support. I want that. But very often that scenario is not necessarily welcome or want. So then how to how do you have any tips how to you know how to? Because contract then it's possibly not. You know, you cannot go exactly about, you know that way of of establishing a session. So how would you go about that one this.

So if Alex is in my sphere of influence. I find a way either myself or somebody else to have a conversation with them and find out. Give them some feedback about what you're seeing. What are the behaviours that that are seeing? What's the impact of that on the rest of the team? Or they haven't put in more work and so on and so on? And ask them what's going on. Ask them are they clear about? You know. You know, what do they need? Are they clear about what's expected of them? Funny, I just asked Umm, ChatGPT earlier on about exactly that scenario. Uh, some great questions in there. Are you clear about your role? Uh, you know, all that kind of good stuff. So if you're really stuck, you can ask ChatGPT.

Brilliant, at least literally. You have less than a minute because I think there is another very good question in the chat about creating that psychological safety and trust during those coaching sessions, but they are different coaching sessions, so I'm not exactly I'm here, but as a volunteer I kind of it's. Enforce like I report to you. So how to create that that safety net?

Yeah. Yeah. Look, I I think when someone doesn't feel safe that come, that's because they don't believe somebody really cares about them. So I think if they feel that you are asking the questions because you care about them and not because not primarily because you want results. This is back to people over process. If you really care. About them, there is a chance that they might open up. But that's not going to just happen.