Reclaim Your Brilliance: Healing from Fragmentation with Dr. Christine Coleman

What if you could stop shape-shifting just to fit into a boardroom? Imagine leading with your full cultural identity, history, and brilliance without the crushing weight of burnout or the "invisible wound" of fragmentation. 

Dr. Christine Coleman joins Erica Rooney to bridge clinical psychology with strategic equity, offering a roadmap for diverse leaders to integrate their whole selves. This episode explores the "Socio-Relational Healing Theory" and provides actionable strategies for moving from survival mode to authentic thriving.

Inside the Episode:

• The Inverted Triangle: A breakdown of Dr. Coleman’s Socio-Relational Healing Theory, which places the relationship with "Self" as the essential foundation for navigating systemic and workplace pressures.
• The Fragmentation Paradox: Exploring how "code-switching" and minimizing cultural identity functions as a "sticky floor" that leads to burnout and psychological exhaustion for diverse leaders.
• The "I Will/I Will Not" Framework: A practical boundary-setting exercise designed to help women move from "survival mode" to reclaimed agency by identifying exactly what they are willing to give—and what they are not.

Resources

• Dr Christine Coleman: https://www.drchristinecoleman.com

RESOURCES & LINKS

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Transcript

​[00:00:00] 

Erica: Welcome to the Glass Ceiling and Sticky Floor podcast. The podcast where we get real about the challenges women face in work, life, and leadership. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, HR executive, keynote speaker, and executive coach. And I'm on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there.

Erica: This is the space where we call it the paradoxes, being told to lean in, but not too far to speak up, but not too loudly to be ambitious, but not too ambitious. Does that sound familiar? Yeah. We're over all that here. We break down the sticky floors that keep us stuck from imposter syndrome and perfectionism to burnout and fear.

Erica: And give you real strategies to shatter those glass ceilings once and for all. So if you're ready to rewrite the rules, own your power, and take your career and life to the next level, you're in the right place. Today's guest is tackling [00:01:00] the invisible wound that sidelines. Its. So many brilliant, diverse leaders, the psychological toll of fragmentation.

Erica: She's here to show us how we stop minimizing our culture and our story to fit into the workplace. And what's revolutionary is that she's not just talking about mental wellness. We've heard about that before, but she's bridging clinical psychology with strategic equity and leadership development. Dr.

Erica: Christine Coleman is the Cee O and Founder of Cure Wellness, a concierge firm dedicated to the mental health and leadership of high achieving diverse leaders with a doctorate focused on the psychological effects of intersectional feminism and over 15 years of clinical experience. Dr. Coleman is the creator of the Socio Relational Healing Theory, and yes, it's a mouthful, but she's gonna tell us all about it.

Erica: Now her work is rooted in the truth of La Cultura. Kira and I could have butchered that, but [00:02:00] she'll let me know. But the culture cures. That's what that means. And she's also the founder of a nonprofit called Soul Sisters and y'all, this is so cool. Soul Sisters mission is to help women overcome societal barriers by providing educational and empowering experiences that promote personal and professional evolution.

Erica: So perfect match here with this podcast. But Dr. Coleman understands the truth. You don't have to fragment your brilliance or your story to lead at the highest level. Her mission is to equip the leaders who carry the most to thrive personally, professionally, and systemically. So I love that. Get ready, because today we're gonna dive into how you can reclaim your wellness.

Erica: Set cultural boundaries and achieve true thriving by integrating every layer of who you are. So Dr. Christine Coleman, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

Dr: you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing so well and so excited to be here.

Erica: Oh my goodness. [00:03:00] Alright, we gotta start with your socio, and I feel like I'm not saying it right. Relational healing theory. Tell me about what it is and then like, let's talk about the core concepts.

Dr: talk about it. Okay. Well thank you so much for kicking us off there. I think it's a wonderful. Intro to this conversation today. , So working with women, diverse women, namely over the span of, as you heard, 15 plus years. I have been collecting information, , as a clinician, as someone who got a PhD and had to do research as a part of that work.

Dr: Really just, , an overall human with a lot of curiosity leaning into how do the different parts of us manifest themselves into the everyday spaces that we take up, right? So with working with women who are in leadership roles, formerly, formerly in the workplace. But of course we all lead in all different kinds of ways throughout our ties to different parts of life.

Dr: I became really curious about how these different parts of us can start to make sense and inform how do they [00:04:00] impact our mental health, and what are some ways that we can take some of the power that we lose through these parts of ourselves. Back. So it is a mouthful and sounds, thank you. Very scientific and very heavy.

Dr: It started off as the thriving framework, which we can still use and celebrate, but essentially how we integrate our socio relational, like how we integrate with the social world, with our systems, how we relate to these different parts of ourselves and how we heal through these different parts that have the potential to harm us are really where that term and, .

Dr: Concept come from. So if you look up on my website now, we don't have it in front of us. Now. There is an actual diagram of what it is, and essentially what I'll do is describe it to you. It is an inverted triangle, so an upside down triangle with, , four layers. The top layer is systems, and I'll go back and review all of these without making it sound like a, a class, , but systems, our relationship to workplace or leadership.

Dr: Our [00:05:00] relationship to our loved ones, our interpersonal connections, and also at the bottom there, if you picture the tip of this triangle at the bottom is our relationship to self. And when I was designing this model, the purpose of self can be taken a few different ways. And I think, we'll, we'll start at the top, but just to really clarify why the self is at the bottom.

Dr: Well, first and foremost, we as women know that oftentimes. We are put on the last of the list. We carry these mounts of responsibility that have been placed on us and that we've taken upon ourselves. At the same time, if we really reframe that, we can also note that the self is such a core foundational part to be able to withstand.

Dr: All that we carry above us and on us. So as we walk through this together and we're in conversation together, Erica, I really invite us to think about how can myself be the foundational part of all the different things that I carry. So I'm gonna pause there before I get into any, any [00:06:00] of the layers that we will, that we'll dissect together.

Dr: But I'm, I'm, I wanted to make sure I slow down there. No,

Erica: No, I think that is so. Kaylee, do you hear that? Sorry, I'm pausing 'cause it's so bad on my end. Do you hear Dr. Christine? Hello? What's going on? Sorry, Dr.

Dr: That's okay. That's why we have.

Erica: want it to sound good. This is interesting. I wanna be able to hear it and use it. Now. It doesn't. Yeah, now I don't hear anything. Okay. All right. You said let's stop there. Okay. I don't know where, we'll, we'll make it piece together.

Dr: Okay. All good.

Erica: All right. Dr. Christina, I love that you're talking about starting with self and immediately where my brain goes is like, I don't know that we were ever taught.

Erica: How to really have a good, strong relationship to ourselves. And it's so important to me right now 'cause I have a 7-year-old daughter and I think that's such a pivotal moment in her life. Like what are your thoughts about that? Do you think this starts young with us?

Dr: absolutely. My daughter just turned eight, so I was right there with you with the 7-year-old and now just seeing her turn into move into 8-year-old life. I actually just had a call with my therapist this morning, and so much of our conversation was around my daughter and how so much of what I'm noticing about her is showing up in my life.

Dr: It's, it's really bringing up a lot of my own connection to my childhood as well as which can [00:07:00] happen at any phase of being a parent. We know that. But there's something about this age that I think is really calling in a lot of my childhood, not even wounds, just reflections. Some of them are wounds, but some of them are also just more broad, broader reflections.

Dr: , And so to your point, yes, I think that we see so much of ourselves as adult women in our children. I also recognize that that question is around when do we really start to have a relationship with ourselves? It reminds us of how much people might have poured into that or not. So being conscious parents that I'm, I'm, I'm assuming and know and trust that both you and I are is, is all a more reason why we, we do this work because we know the responsibility and the weight.

Dr: If we don't, we know the outcomes of what women go through when we don't necessarily have the entry points of prevention, education, conversations, empowerment. At an early [00:08:00] phase, we know the ways that that can potentially impact us and harm us if not, so it can be scary, but I think it can also be a reframe of if I have the opportunity to parent in a way that is conscious and effective, starting with my children young and I can go across all genders, but mainly with our daughters, um, there can be room for so much more.

Dr: There can be room for so much more positive outcome in their lives. There's also, yeah, there's also just this real quick note of, oh, I know. We'll, we'll continue to get into this of the repar reparenting that we can do, even if we didn't get that ourselves.

Erica: I know, and that's a big thing. I'm seeing it all over social media and TikTok and it's like, man, we are reparenting ourselves and figuring, but you know what? We're all just trying to figure it out as we go.

Dr: definitely. That is so true.

Erica: Oh my gosh. But let's talk a bit about intersectional feminism, because this is where your work really shines and really thrives.

Erica: How does the [00:09:00] pressure of holding multiple identities? So it could be you're a woman of color and a leader. You could be LGBTQ plus, and you know, a mother. I don't know what they all are, but there's a million possibilities here. But how does that pressure of holding all of, all of those identities create this unique, exhausting, sticky floor?

Erica: Right? Those are the words I love to use. The limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors that keep us stuck, you know, that kind of traps, that traps them and that maybe leadership doesn't address.

Dr: Mm. It's such, it's such a good question. And take can take us back if we can use the, the framework that I posed, right? Because so much of that model came from. Really wonderful scholars that came so much more powerfully beyond before me. And so Kimberly Crenshaw, among other scholars alongside her, but she is the, the pioneer of intersectionality theory that was founded in the late 1970s, early 1980s.

Dr: And [00:10:00] essentially what that theory is, is really noting that there are systems. To the point of the framework, right? Starting with the systems that were designed to give people access to privilege and others not. So we remain in these systems still to this day that oppress us and that give us access to privilege or privilege directly, right?

Dr: So we are constantly navigating between those and I think in, especially in this day and age and the long time that I've been training on this and giving more insight into this, as I learn more about it as well. We don't like to talk about it. It makes us feel uncomfortable. People don't do really well with privilege.

Dr: And so really in these conversations, I think it's opportunity for us to recognize that privilege is an opportunity for us to lean into what we have, exercise gratitude, and then be seeking out the ways that we can offer it to other people that don't have the same access to it. If we can take on that, that lane of privilege, and that can come across [00:11:00] race, that can come across as gender.

Dr: There are, . Specific ones on the intersectionality theory, which are those socioeconomic status. So yes, income, but also the ways that class shows up, access to things like education resources and so forth. , The frameworks are. There are many out there, but there are others like age. We know that there's age privilege.

Dr: Sometimes it's age of being young and youthful, and sometimes it's, , we know that ageism exists when people start to get older. And the ways that youth and young and a younger identity, especially in the workplace is upheld. I hear a lot of those stories around just the discrimination, which again, legally is not allowed, but we still know that it exists in the workplace.

Dr: And then on the flip side, even though it's different. Knowing that age really plays into, , younger generations as well who aren't taken as seriously because they are seen as young and new and entry level and so forth. So we see those types of things and how they intersect with our identity. So, so there are a few, but what I really want to, as a takeaway here, especially when we talk [00:12:00] about the way that systems show up, is, especially as women, especially when we add on not just being a woman but a woman of color.

Dr: So my background is I, my mother. Is was she passed away last year? Um, Mexican American. My father is Iranian and lives in Iran and so I have had this not only tied to race and ethnicity, but also multiple on top of being a woman and not knowing where I belong and how I move in the world. So it's taken on its own challenge, but also beauty 'cause I'm proud of these things, but I also recognize the barriers that I've had to.

Dr: That I've run into and I've had to navigate in ways that have been challenging and hard for me, and maybe some folks listening can relate to that. So we have these systems of not just being a woman, but how does your race and ethnicity tie to your privilege? How does not only, I grew up also very middle class.

Dr: My mom was the first to go get her master's degree, so she had to break some glass ceilings. That made it easier for me to have access to privilege to [00:13:00] get a freaking PhD. You know what I mean? So there are things that. That we have, that our systems and I, I am right here. This podcast is so beautiful and perfect because there are systems that were formed against us, which make it harder, but it doesn't make it impossible for us to break through them.

Dr: That's why I love that we are standing on business with this area because we have to really be reminded of that. But we also don't wanna minimize that there are literal systems that are withholding and with withholding us from access. And so one thing we have to be really, really be mindful about is.

Dr: How do we not gaslight people of, it's just you're in your imagination or y'all are just, um, overreacting to things or you're boo-hooing about things that aren't fair for you. There are real systemic divides here that we have to take seriously and believe, especially women about.

Erica: A hundred percent. And girl, you're talk, I mean, that's the premises of the podcast, right? Is it's, these systems do exist. And yet I will still shatter [00:14:00] the ceiling. And so that's where the power lies. But yeah, we gotta stop gaslighting, we gotta stop tea treating people. And then we have to also not be scared of privilege.

Erica: Like that is a whole separate podcast on itself that we could go down that rabbit hole. But everybody has some form of privilege. It exists everywhere. We just have to be comfortable and recognize it and figure out how to use our privilege for good. Okay, the mission is

Dr: doing.

Erica: Oh my gosh. Okay. And this kind of leads me to my next question because you've often said like there's no need to fragment your brilliance, and I love that.

Erica: In theory, it sounds great. I have also gone through the ranks of corporate America in multiple different industries where it's been very different and I think a lot of people feel like they have to shape shift. Um, and they have to change who they are, and absolutely for people like women of color who have to worry about being coined the angry black woman, if they, you know, express any kind of emotion.

Erica: So what do you think that women can do [00:15:00] to stop fragmenting themselves and start leading with their whole selves while surviving and thriving in the system that we have?

Dr: Oh, that's such another great question. That's such a good question. You have all these great questions and my goodness, they are, they're important ones, so. Let's talk a little bit about what you said, the fragmentation, right? Otherwise known as code switching, especially in. Different spaces, including the workplace where we know that even to this day, even as DEI continues, right?

Dr: It's back and forth, up and down, especially with the times we're living in right now. But there are calls to action and there are, there is action being put forth in helping make. These workplace institutions more inclusive and hopefully psychologically safer for people to show up as their full selves with their full racial I identities and ethnicities and races with their full language, uh, differences, right?

Dr: We don't, some people who have English that is not their, their first language, for example, right? There are [00:16:00] different ways that we show up that have the opportunity to be penalized or seen, not taken as seriously, and other ways that we're seeing. I have the space to come as I am. I've gotten to go into a lot of corporations and organizations, train, provide workshops, provide consulting and coaching to leaders on this very thing.

Dr: And what we really have to do, again, talk about systems. The system has to continue to uphold its responsibility to what they said they were gonna do. And I'm so fascinated on the HR perspective that you have of how people, people, teams, can continue to really stand on. What it is that they are, they are promising to do for their people.

Dr: It is to create these safe spaces where you can bring your full brilliance into this space. But it starts with really understanding I am here of service to the people who are here to provide the professionalism, the product, the service, and so forth That starts systemically there. Which again, there are so many barriers to that, but I think that that really is a beautiful, important [00:17:00] and also challenging responsibility on that part.

Dr: But when it comes to the individual. I wanna call in a bit of my mental health background here. We also have to pay attention to how is this impacting me mentally and emotionally. Let's do a little scan of when I step into work, do I feel a sense of peace, or is my anxiety through the roof? Am I noticing that I am overworking so much just to be heard and seen that I don't even know if this has anything to do with the actual thing that I studied or trained for because I'm so busy trying to overdo or overcompensate.

Dr: For just being a person in this space, is that causing me a heightened level of anxiety? Am I burned out because I'm doing and performing so much more just to be taken seriously in this space? Am I noticing that all of this is starting to feel really helpless and hopeless, and it's causing me to not only feel sad and discouraged, but on borderline depressed or fully depressed?

Dr: Right? There are ways that our mental and emotional wellbeing are impacted and they're really [00:18:00] serious. And so when we talk about these things, they're not just nice to haves. Hopefully we can take some tools away. They have the possibility of impacting us severely if we're not careful. So to talk about tools, Erica, I think is so important and beautiful, but I, I would be remiss if I didn't mention what is the risk if we don't.

Dr: The risk if we don't, is really a detriment to our wellbeing and our survival in the world as we know it, and not only to survive. Of course, we're talking about thriving here, but many of us are actually functioning in survival mode. So to think about the tools, it really takes me to a place of, if we are not able to have a sense of belonging in our workplace, we have to seek out spaces that do make us, or or promote belonging outside.

Dr: So this is why community is so important. You're creating a community here. It's wonderful. Soul Sisters, my nonprofit has really been about creating sisterhood and community across diverse spaces. This is an opportunity for us to really, again, trample on those systems that say. You [00:19:00] should not be interacting with that person.

Dr: You should stay in this lane and you should stay in your lane. You should stay down here while I remain up here. We need to really minimize that gap, that societal gap by interacting with people who are different than us. At the same time, our core belonging really does get filled when we feel like we are less anxious about being around people who might be different than us.

Dr: So affinity groups are really important, um, around women, around women of color. Around women with different family structures, right? The ways we can find belonging I think are super important. And of course, taking care of the individual self through different self-care practices, which I'm sure we'll get into.

Dr: But I think those are really important places to start.

Erica: You know what community is like the word of the. And I'm seeing it more and more, and I don't know know if it's just the times that we live in. I think we became so disconnected

Dr: We

Erica: that people are finally seeing they need to bring that back in. And I just recorded a podcast with a woman about, um, [00:20:00] all about leading while introverted.

Erica: It was super

Dr: Oh, that's awesome.

Erica: talked also about the power of community and like replacing networking with finding community. And I thought that was so powerful, but. It really at the core of it, it's because it teaches that belonging. And this whole time you were talking, it brought me back to this one training that I was a part of many, many years ago.

Erica: Back when like DEIB was just starting to emerge back when like DI think it was just D and I back then, you know, and they did a very powerful exercise for everyone in the room who really struggled to understand privilege. And it was just, you know, I want you to write down the top five things that make you you.

Erica: Right? Like what? So, you know, when I think about myself, I'm like, well, I'm a mom to these two kids. I'm a wife, I'm a fitness, you know, crazy person. You know, I love, um. You know, I don't know. I love to travel. I, and I [00:21:00] think of something else, right? But like, those are all the things that make me me. And then they said, now imagine that you have to leave one or two of those things at home and you can never talk about it at work.

Erica: You can never bring it to work. You can't speak of it. You can't act like you know anything about it. And I was like,

Dr: Yes. Yeah.

Erica: you know, like, oh my gosh, that's so, like, I could never, like, I could never go into a workplace and not talk about my kids. I don't know what I talk about all day, you know? And so it gives you this perspective of what people who do feel like they have to minimize their cultural identity or important pieces of alpha and like what they actually might feel like.

Erica: So.

Dr: Yeah, that's a really great activity and I'm so glad that it landed with you and that you kept it as a, a really vivid memory for yourself and hopefully something that. Has really informed the way that you see the world and just becoming more conscious. 'cause that's all we really can do, right? We, of course, wanna put forth action beyond the belief and understanding, but really holding onto those truths that are really gonna help us navigate the world in such a different way.

Dr: [00:22:00] Hopefully with so much more compassion, understanding, empathy towards others, especially when they're different from us. And as you were sharing your example right now, it made me think of, again, we have our. Our own silos that promote belonging, where we do feel a sense of safety and ease of, okay, this person looks like me.

Dr: This person moves like me. We're from the same place. We jumped on this call. We're like, we're on the opposite sides of the coast. But we found out that our daughters are really close in age. We found I, I used to be a zoomer instructor, girl. Like I love the fitness world. Like just. There are, unless we put ourselves in these situations where we're able to say, we're diverse, but I am willing to be in community with you and learn about somebody outside of my familiarity, outside of my own lived experience.

Dr: How beautiful. Because now that's what we're doing is we're closing the gap that tells us that we don't deserve or not worthy of being in spaces with different people, especially. Being in privilege. I'm a, I am a woman of color. You are a white woman. There are different access things that you have access to that I don't, it doesn't make you any better than me, and it doesn't make me any better than you [00:23:00] for the privileges that I have.

Dr: Right. But at the same time, how would we know that if we are continuing to just stay separate or, or be in our, our safe zones all the time? So this is really why diversity in the acronym is so beautiful, but so is inclusion. So, right. We need to not just be diverse on a postcard. We really are continuing to promote, promote the, the, the belonging and and inclusion that we wanna see, which is part of this dialogue and part of getting to understand each other beyond what we think we might know about each other.

Erica: A hundred percent. Absolutely. Okay. You mentioned a little bit some of those self-care rituals or things that we can do, and so lay 'em on me,

Dr: We jump into it

Erica: to prioritize their wellness?

Dr: definitely. So we are busy. We are really busy. I know I am. I imagine you are. With the many hats of motherhood and, and workplace work, work relationships, and so forth, we really need to prioritize some me time and take and really take [00:24:00] that seriously because there's so many women that I speak to that have.

Dr: The paid leave that have, that have, uh, support and don't take it for a variety of reasons, right? There's this tie to purpose around what we do. There is tie to, um, there's tie to guilt. If I, if I don't do this, then what's gonna happen? Are my kids gonna think that I'm abandoning them or am I going to drop the ball at work?

Dr: And so forth. So a lot of that is around, of course, this word that we use all the time, which is boundaries, but they're true right? Boundaries around. What it is that we are willing and unwilling to give of ourselves. It's a hard one, especially again from different cultural groups where boundaries are, can be seen as a form of disrespect.

Dr: We come from, you know, I can't generalize all cultural groups, but many cultural groups, especially those of color from, from different parts of the world. There is a collectivistic approach to family and community. So we all rely on each other. We all take care of [00:25:00] each other. If somebody steps out of that and says, I have a boundary that I need to honor and take care of myself.

Dr: What? What do you mean? Right? That doesn't land well according to what oftentimes the upbringing and the cultural beliefs are. So we have to be really mindful about what we tell women, especially women of color, about what works and what can work. Because essentially what you're saying. Go take care of yourself and step away from your cultural community that has been there for you all along.

Dr: So there is a really strong risk where, whereas maybe for a lot of women who grew up in Western. Societies, there is more of an individualistic approach to things where self-care could feel maybe a little bit bit easier to access because there is a notion of you take care of yourself at the end of the day and so forth.

Dr: So while I still believe it is important to take care of self and why I think we can work with our communities of diverse backgrounds to really promote the self, I think we have to also be really compassionate about that middle ground of how much more of us. Stretch or pull or even risk. It can be for some communities.

Dr: So as I talk [00:26:00] about self-care, I think we also have to put in parallel community care because the self can feel very individualized and uncomfortable, but we can sometimes feel that we are taking care of one another, which can ease some of that anxiety or stress that can come with that. So what does community care look like?

Dr: I show up for my community in ways of. Of helping somebody take care of their kids so they can go and take a shower by their damn selves. Right. , So I can go show up. . At a community event where there is dance or there is food, and I can be there and it does pour into self, but I am connected to other people.

Dr: So community care is very important as it relates to self-care. But we also wanna think about self-care, that individualized self is important too. And so with respect to the ways that culture upholds community. We also can find ways to modify that to take some moments for ourselves as well. So whether that is the things that we know, like reading a good book or [00:27:00] listening to some soothing music, sometimes I have very like anxious.

Dr: Habits, I think I can be a bit of a jittery person. My, I'm actually looking in here. My daughter made this pompom and she's really into wicked. I dunno if you can see that if you're listening, but it's a bit of a green, green, pink situation happening here. And so it doesn't really sound like self-care, but we have to think about the little parts of when I'm starting to feel overwhelm.

Dr: Is there something. , I can tap into sensory wise where I can really just help ease some of this. Can we tap into some deep breaths? , Sometimes when I have clients, we'll do a bit of a, a guided meditation in session and I often tell them, you don't have to always have someone like me. There, there are things you can do.

Dr: I'm putting my feet on the ground right now. If we're feeling anxious or overwhelmed, that can help. That can cause us to take, cause us to go into drift mode where things start to get more futuristic, which is less predictable. Give your feet a tap on the ground to remind you that you're here presently [00:28:00] right now.

Dr: So there are things we can do in our bodies. There are things we can do relationally. There's also this other part that I would be remiss if I didn't say, which is the way that we treat and talk to ourselves, how we talked about ourselves. To ourselves, how we treat ourselves. Some of us have a history of people not treating us very well, speaking to ourselves, speaking to us in ways that were harmful, abusive to our minds, to our bodies.

Dr: We internalize those things. So how can we continue to have a, a refined narrative of how we speak to ourselves? So those are a bit of body mind connections, as well as outward community connections that I can offer this moment.

Erica: any pivots or maybe mantras that you have? Because I struggle with the self-care aspect of like, I always feel like there's something I should be doing, and I know a

Dr: I know.

Erica: people feel that way, and so I [00:29:00] like the idea of leaning into community care. But any many powerful pivots that you could offer to women who struggle to actually take that time for self.

Dr: yes, I like to use a lot with my, in my practice, this divide. And you can, you can write your, if you are a person who likes to write things down, oftentimes I have my clients write a. A column list of either I will, I will not. So that is essentially the root of boundary, right? I will, or I'm willing to, and I'm not willing to, can be, I am willing to, right.

Dr: Still be the, the, the name, the main person that does drop off. Right. I am willing to do that. I like my time with my kids. I understand it's a responsibility. I have time in the morning or after. Whatever it is, you can do a little bit of that internal dialogue of what am I willing to do? Some things we have to do, but there are also some things we could hand off and are just having a hard time handing off.

Dr: But the willingness, I think, is an important one, [00:30:00] but also where can we draw in some of the boundaries of, I'm actually not willing to do that anymore. I'm not willing to volunteer. This is my life, right? I'm not, I'm no longer willing to volunteer for all the things. I just, I, I know what the outcomes are.

Dr: When I over overstretch myself, I'm no longer willing to do that, but I am willing. To serve on one board, I am willing to donate, um, x amount of money per year to my kids' school. I am willing to volunteer in my son's class, you know, once, whenever, right? There are things that when we slow down and think about what we're willing or unwilling to do, again, that's within, that is within our control.

Dr: Some things we are, we just have to do, but I think that's really what it comes down to is. Everything starts to feel like I have to do them. And when we really start to have these conversations with self and we recognize there are some things I actually have a say in it can slow that down a bit and give us more control and power over our voice and our actions.

Erica: Yes. You know what? I'm no longer willing [00:31:00] to do be a lunchroom parent

Dr: Okay.

Erica: Girls sitting in a classroom with like 26 feral children all trying to eat lunch and trying to take advantage of you. 'cause you're not the teacher. So you probably don't know all the real, no.

Dr: Nope, she's not doing it. She done.

Erica: Now will. It's not gonna be me, but, oh my gosh, Dr.

Erica: Christine. I love this. This has been fascinating. What is, I think this is gonna be my last question for you, but like, what is the one takeaway you want women. To know about the work that you do and how they can utilize your work to really go from this fragmented existence to true, authentic self.

Dr: Beautiful. So to end where we started, right? We talked a little bit about systems. We talked some about self. We also have our relationship to our work and our work identities and the workplace. We have our relationships to our [00:32:00] children, our loved ones, right? That's part of that model that we talked about.

Dr: We want so many answers, and I love giving tools that you, you, I love having them. I love giving them to my clients. But we, we often skip over the process. We, we, we, that's where the discomfort is to think, to slow down. And so if I can offer anything, use that model as a guide, uh, to think about what is my relationship to these systems?

Dr: In what way do the system serve me and do not serve me? What are actionable things I can do? Who are the people that have privilege around me that I can call in to show up for me when I need some access or support around these areas? That might be difficult, but I think that's where we get some of our power as well.

Dr: And also, if I do have privilege, to our point earlier, where can I show up in ways, how can I be out there seeking opportunities to serve and support? Similarly, in the workplace, what is our relationship to our work? Is our work relationship has it become, I use this, this, um, visual called. The [00:33:00] identity pie.

Dr: It's a pie chart essentially, right? Some of some clients I have are like, oh my gosh, I don't know how my pie chart with all my roles and responsibilities became 75 to 80% work life. If that is a season that you're in and that's something you're proud of 'cause you love it, that is your choice. But if you're recognizing work took over more than I took over it, are there modifications that you can make?

Dr: Am I working to get to get recognized, to get credibility 'cause these systems are making me or forcing me to act in these ways? Or can I give maybe 30%? And a lot of women of color I talk to because so many of them are in my practice, will tell me that their bosses say. You don't actually have to give this much, but they feel such a sense of panic and fear that they've been operating in what they think is 70, when it's really like 90 or a hundred.

Dr: So really reassessing our relationship to work again. I love my work. I imagine you too. I've really enjoyed being Dr. Coleman and doing these things that I have really. [00:34:00] Uh, a privilege and opportunity to be helping people as a therapist and as someone who gets to take my therapy practice into work. Like, I didn't expect these things.

Dr: I really didn't. So I love it. And my work identity and my relationship to work and leadership is one that I don't want to get rid of. So this is a, a place I imagine folks listening are thinking, well, I don't want, I, there are parts of me that really I get drive and fuel and passion and purpose for my work.

Dr: So really, what is your relationship to it? How is it serving you? How is it maybe perhaps detrimental to your wellbeing? And then of course our relationships and then coming back down to self, having the process and the moments. And we don't have a lot of time all the time. Right. But if you're on a walk, if you're listening to a podcast, can these be little pockets of opportunity to do some self-reflection?

Dr: There is power in those moments that can lead us to the outcomes that maybe we're, we are seeking.

Erica: Yes. I mean, I have to intentionally remind myself sometimes that I don't need to bring my cell phone with me on a five minute dog walk at the

Dr: Hmm.

Erica: the day. You [00:35:00] know, just little things, little things. Oh my gosh, this was amazing. Dr. Christine, thank you so much. Listen, if today's conversation lit a fire under you, here's your next move.

Erica: Don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with a friend, drop a review, and let's keep the conversation going. Remember that your potential is limitless and the only thing standing in your way are those sticky floors. But guess what? You have the power to break through them. So go out there, take up some dang space and let's shatter some ceilings together.