21: How NYU's College of Nursing is bringing LIFESTYLE NURSING to undergrads, with Dr. Karla Rodriguez

Shout out to my nursing peeps! If you’re a nurse, in nursing school or a professor of nursing you will be psyched about today’s conversation with NYU’s Clinical Assistant Professor, Dr. Karla Rodriguez. 

Dr. Rodriguez teaches med-surg and an elective course, Lifestyle Approaches and Wellbeing in Nursing, to undergraduate nursing students in New York University’s (NYU) Rory Meyers College of Nursing. She is a content expert in Lifestyle Medicine, is a role model for healthy living as she walks the talk, and is a leader in both the Nursing profession and as a nursing representative within the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. 

You’ll hear about the Lifestyle Medicine 101 curriculum available to educators via the ACLM, how Dr. Rodriguez brings the lifestyle pillars to life with fun and experiential assignments meant to facilitate and support nursing student’s self-care, resources she uses, and even how to make oat groats!

Contact Info:
Karla Rodriguez, CNE, DipACLM, DNP, RN
NYU Rory Meyers College of Nursing
Clinical Assistant Professor
You can find Dr. Rodriguez HERE
O: 212-998-5215
Email: kgr215@nyu.edu

Plantwise Documentary

Lifestyle Nursing, 1st edition

Lifestyle Medicine Handbook (in collab with ACLM):

NYC Mayor Eric Adam’s story is HERE.

Anything else you want to hear about? Let me know! Send me DM on social. I genuinely want to provide (and translate) all kinds of great info for you.

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susiespell

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As always, thanks to Lemon Music Studio for intro and outro music.

Transcript

RTVH Podcast: Karla Rodriguez, DNP 

[00:00:00] Susie: Welcome back to the Return to Vibrant Health Podcast. Today I have Dr. Karla Rodriguez. She has her doctorate in nursing practice (DNP) and she's a diplomat of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. She's Clinical Assistant Professor in NYU's, Rory Myers College of Nursing in New York City.

So thank you for being with me. We're gonna talk all about Lifestyle Medicine and your experience and your profession. So I'm really excited. What did I miss? What can you tell us about yourself? 

[00:00:29] Karla: Well, thank you for having me here. First of all, Susan, it was wonderful to meet you in person over the conference that we just had last weekend from the 13th to the 16th.

So, so happy. And very, very, very fortunate to be part of an organization that focuses or emphasis on lifestyle. You know, the pillars. And I came across the American College of Lifestyle Medicine while attending a plant stock, a plant stock, instead of Woodstock conference upstate in New York with Dr. Esselstyn and his team, his family. they had a plant stock conference where Susan Benigas was actually there she's the one of the board members from the American College of Lifestyle. And she spoke about the American College of Lifestyle Medicine and the wonders of it and how it's a collaborative effort among all disciplines, even though it's mainly physician led, there are registered dieticians, registered nurses, physical therapists, and the like.

And I just, I, I couldn't believe that there was an organization focusing on, not conventional medications, but how you can reverse certain conditions if you emphasize on a fiber fueled or a a, a plant forward type. Mm-hmm. 

I don't like saying the word "diet". I used to love saying these words, but now I just like a food plan. You know, one that's sustainable. Diets can hold negative connotations for a lot of people. And I don't know if I'm, do you want me to continue? 

[00:02:03] Susie: You know, I have a question for you before you go on. How did you even hear about plant stock? Or why were you even interested in going to that in the first place? 

[00:02:12] Karla: Yeah, because I, at the time, and I am still a vegan, so I'm so between vegan, vegetarian, um, so at the time I was completely exclusively vegan, so devoid of any animal products, and that was on social media. Somehow I came across the event through social media, through Facebook or something. So I immediately signed up and fortunately I do live in New York, so I did drive up to the event and I stayed over at a nearby motel. Uh, it was a wonderful experience. Dr. McMacken was there, you know who I met as, um, at the time, Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams. Right. Yes. Yes. And I introduced myself to him. Yes. 

[00:02:55] Susie: So why is that? What about him? Because, so if people are listening and they don't know who that is or why that's important, talk about him for a second.

[00:03:02] Karla: He's a, he's also, he was consulted by Dr. Esselstyn. He actually had a hemoglobin a1c at the time, he didn't even know of a 17 point something And the normal is no more than 6.5 at least. So, He did not want to go the conventional route as prescribed by his doctor, he was looking into a more, um, I guess, natural way of addressing this condition.

So he did seek the consult of Dr. Esselstyn, uh, with regards to changing his diet. It was really an emphasis on changing his diet. So he did, he did, he actually reversed his diabetes type two. 

[00:03:44] Susie: Right. And that's had huge ripple effects, at least in your area, right? 

[00:03:49] Karla: Yes. Actually he's now the mayor of New York City and he's very driven and has incorporated or instituted many, um, programs with regards to plant-based meals in city or public schools, in hospitals, New York City Health Hospital Systems. There's six hospitals that have programs specifically geared to patients who are pre-diabetic or considering a lifestyle change where lifestyle can play a role in reversing their diabetes. And actually having, just not even having this on the menu at hospitals is a big deal. Right. So as an option.

[00:04:32] Susie: Right. Right. Which is important. for me it often seems like a no-brainer or kind of intuitive, but that's not necessarily the case. What I'd like to know about you is if you were vegan before, I feel like vegan has a connotation about also throwing in some ethics in there, but it doesn't necessarily have to. But I wanna know for you, how did your personal and professional life intertwine to lead you to what you're doing now? 

[00:04:59] Karla: Yes. So I noticed that there was not an emphasis on eating fiber fueled or fiber predominant foods in you every time there was some sort of gathering or event with my employer. There's always foods that are very calorically dense and not my, and you know, as nurses, we serve as role models. How can we possibly teach about diet or physical activity? You know, it's really one of the domains according to the North American Nursing Diagnosis Association. Nutrition is one of the domains for nursing practice. So does it play a role for nurses? It plays a very big role. Now. Nutrition, you know, leads a lot to interpretation. Everyone has specific needs and that's fine. But the emphasis should be on fiber, fiber rich foods. 

But I also noticed a bias in nursing textbooks. From the United States Department of Agriculture, from the American Diabetes Association, unfortunately. You know, nowhere on their website, on the ADA, will it say that diabetes type 2 can be reversed. 

[00:06:17] Susie: Interesting. 

[00:06:18] Karla: Nowhere, nowhere. And I, again, I'm not throwing stones at these organizations, but these very same organizations that you know, want donations like for breast cancer or funds for breast cancer research and other types of cancers. Who are their sponsors? The same corporations that are actually unfortunately pushing certain foods that are filled with saturated fat, you know, high in cholesterol. These are not foods that are really, they're not healthy. And they're okay in moderation, but if we really were operating under moderation, why are we still becoming more and more unfortunately obese? As a society 

[00:07:03] Susie: and, um, as a nursing profession, you know, before I even found lifestyle medicine people outside of the nursing profession used to ask me questions like, why are nurses so heavy? And I began to kind of notice, and of course I worked night shift for a while and put on some weight, which is of course not good for your circadian rhythms and all that. Not to mention, when we get together and we eat it is very calorically dense. Food that we eat is processed, especially when you're in the busy setting. Mm-hmm. . So, how did that flow into what you're teaching or how you share this message with nursing students? 

[00:07:46] Karla: You know what I noticed, and again, it's not to be no attack on anybody, but I notice when we do team teaching at my school and we, uh, I teach medical, surgical, uh, foundations and my background is adult and pediatrics. And I've had faculty say they have no problem with there being a McDonald's in the hospitals, as long as it'll make them happy. And if they're, if they're recovering from cancer or some sort of chemotherapy, if that's all they're going to eat, then that's fine. That's okay. But I, and I've even had faculty who will pass around sweets or um, candies to students. And ironically, you know, here we are teaching about the DASH diet, the dietary approaches to stop hypertension or diabetes. But now I've noticed a shift honestly. And this is where I come in and I speak about the cholesterol and that guess what?

We make cholesterol, or guess what? Nutrient absorption in the small intestine or our microbiome. I always throw something in there, uh, pertaining to why the microbiome is so important. And how we, you know, even though there on proton pump inhibitors or histamine 2 antagonists, it's not good long term for patients, right?

Cause their stomach actually needs to have an acidic environment. You know, pathogens like h pylori or helicobacter pylori thrive in a alkaline environment. So, you know, they, they're, they're very vulnerable. These patients are very vulnerable. So there's just such a coexistence between the gut and brain and heart and lungs. I mean, they're all intertwined in some way, shape, or form. Um, so what I notice now is one faculty member in particular, which I love what he's doing, he actually passes around a basket of bananas or apples. Oh. Aside from the sweets, the occasional sweets now and then, I'm never gonna say anything about the sweets.

I don't wanna appear dogmatic or pedantic to students because they're very impressionable. most of the students in our program are second degree, so some have a background in, believe it or not, in nutrition. They may have a background in this. anecdotally I'll speak, uh, I'll always mention Eric Adams, especially when we talk about diabetes, always mention him and his lifestyle.

I'm not saying that a exclusively plant-based diet is the only food plan that's going to have the best outcomes. I'm not saying that and people in, or members in the American College of Lifestyle, Medicine are not all exclusively plant based.

So lean fish, lean meats are okay, but 5%. If you're not adopting an exclusive plant-based diet, 5% of your meals just should only come from these meats. 

[00:10:34] Susie: Mm-hmm. .Yeah. Like a little condiment. 

[00:10:37] Karla: Yeah. I don't know how realistic that is for people. Whatever wor whatever works for them. I know they, now they, they, their stance is more about being more plant forward.

[00:10:47] Susie: I've, I've grappled with this a bit myself, the dogma issue, because when I first learned about this, I was like, you need to go full throttle. Like was very adamant about that. However, as I've gone on through time, what I've discovered is you push people away. Yes. That, and for me, I've worked in public health and so I kind of have that population hat on where if we can get many more people maybe having a day where they don't eat meat or they eat much less. That's still progress on a population level. Yeah. And for an individual both. So it can help both.

[00:11:25] Karla: Yeah, it's more sustainable, more realistic, and we talk about SMART goals all the time. That's one of the interventions we use with the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, the lifestyle medicine syllabus that I use, that I was approved in using for my elective course at NYU Myers.

We talk about SMART goals, and these SMART goals need to be realistic and they need to come from the patient. You know, this patient is not going to last mm-hmm on any type of food plan or physical activity or sleep regimen if they're not pleased with it or at least amenable to it.

[00:11:56] Susie: you mentioned a curriculum just now. Yes, yes, yes. So how did you get that curriculum? Create it, tell us a little bit of the nuts and bolts of how you got that done in your setting. Because I think other nursing schools might be interested in that.

[00:12:11] Karla: So I am using, or I applied to use the lifestyle medicine 101 curriculum. So it's a whole set of slides. All concentrated on the pillars and, you know, connection and mental health, sleep. Just the content is full. Now, I, I do tailor it a bit because it is more physician driven.

Like in the week one I will introduce the nurse's health study. I will introduce, I use Dr. Imogene King, who from the 1960s she developed the, uh, the care plan, not the care plan, but just the type of mutual understanding pertaining to goals. You know, she honestly sort of developed the smart goals herself without indirectly actually mm-hmm. because there needs to be that coexistent co existence and that dynamic between the patient and the nurse. And it needs to be positive in order for this dynamic to manifest. 

So there needs to be, and the also, uh, a locus in terms of the environment, how that can influence that patient as well. You know, she uses the term patient at the time, how, you know, it was in 1960s. So it's very important to have that team effort pertaining to goals and actually having the patient be amenable to those goals. So I actually insert a lot of content pertaining to nurses' health study and how that has influenced or contributed to medications or not medications, but to treatments and influenced, you know, the diets pertaining to cholesterol, pertaining to saturated fat, and it's association to breast cancer, it's association to contraceptives, oral contraceptives, or heart disease, autoimmune conditions. I mean, they're just so many. And it originated the nurses' health study. I always ask students, did they hear about the nurses' health study?

So some will say yes, some will say no, but it started in 1976 and males were allowed to fill out the nurses health study surveys in 2016. Hmm. So there's this whole folder in ACLM that allows you, once you are approved, allows you to utilize their content.

[00:14:32] Susie: Right. That curriculum was born out of the ACLM or lives there or something. 

[00:14:37] Karla: It does live there, yes. 

[00:14:38] Susie: Yeah, I think I've seen it before. It's really good. 

[00:14:41] Karla: Yes. Yes. Yeah. And, uh, and a lot of it comes from, I use Dr. Beth Fraites' book, right. Dr. Beth Fraites. So she's going to be the new president for ACLM. And I use her book and her anecdotes and you know, she's also a health coach and she's just a luminary figure in lifestyle medicine. And I read her testimonials to the class. And a lot of that content, we, we, it can also be applied to nursing, you know, and it's just really about the facts pertaining to sleep, pertaining to nutrion.

[00:15:14] Susie: Right. And there was a new lifestyle nursing book, a new textbook that came out. Have you gotten that one? 

[00:15:21] Karla: It's on order and I have it reserved in the library for students. You know, I teach at a baccalaureate level. Right. So will I require students to purchase the book? No. And you know, oddly enough, or coincidentally enough, Dr. Gia Merlot, who's one of the authors for the book she presented in my class yesterday virtually, speaking about the book, of course. And, um, You know, the merits pertaining to the luminaries, the nursing luminaries who are contributing authors to the book.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that was a discussion yesterday in class and that it is going to be on reserve for students. So she's definitely, I know she's definitely gonna use that for her graduate course. She teaches virtually at NYU Meyers. 

[00:16:07] Susie: How have the students responded? 

[00:16:10] Karla: It fills the capacity every semester. I'm in my third semester teaching the course. I have 27 students, and that's a, a big contrast to the number of students I have in my medical surgical courses. We have over 150 students in each section, which is why we have team teaching. So it's nice to have a small class. It makes it more intimate, so to speak. Mm-hmm. and I always, I, I, I provide a lot of disclaimers at the first day of class. This is not to vilify, you know, your way of, I know nutrition is a big. A big topic for students. 

[00:16:46] Susie: Hot button . 

[00:16:47] Karla: Yeah. So I say this is not to vilify anybody. You know, you are on your own trajectory. This is more to empower you and what better way to, uh, empower you or just to provide you with the facts and the knowledge so you can, it really it's about self-care for students. 

This course, it's about self-care and we're talking about you and I have assignments, little assignments here and there. I'm so glad I actually created an assignment this semester. It's a cultural paper. We live in New York City and I have a lot of, I have a diversified student body and I am so happy that I had them do a cultural paper. 1500 words. and you can insert pictures. Anything of importance to you. It doesn't, it doesn't have to center on holidays. It could be an event, it could be observances like religious observances. We have people from Muslim heritage, we have people of Jewish heritage, so they speak about their traditions. And these are pictures even of their fur babies.

And a lot of them, you know, the majority of nurses, let's face it, are females, right? And you have to wonder why nutrition is at the center of their radar. Uh, do they have, and I'm not just saying nursing, but females in general, do they have a good relationship with food, period. And it's not something I ask them, but I do bring it to their attention. It's not something that they have to answer, but it's something to explore. So it, again, I love it that it is intimate. I mean, I could have the class if I asked, have more students enrolled, but I like that it is small .

[00:18:32] Susie: Right. It's an elective course, right? 

[00:18:34] Karla: It's an elective course. They take, um, two electives in their senior year, in their last semester. And that's one of them of many. There's many electives that they can choose from. There's oncology, nursing, there's disaster nursing, there's global public, uh, I think global mother and child or something like that, lactation nurse. I mean, there's just so many to choose. 

[00:18:55] Susie: Right. Gosh, I wanna go back to school. . Yeah. 

[00:18:58] Karla: There's an LB LGBTQ one, you know? Right. So just so students to choose from.

[00:19:04] Susie: What's the name of the course? 

[00:19:06] Karla: My course is called Lifestyle Approaches and Wellbeing in Nursing. I can send you the syllabus if you want. Oh, that would be awesome. Yeah. 

[00:19:14] Susie: Have you shared this with other faculty either at NYU or around the country or globe? 

[00:19:21] Karla: Oh, yes. I'm part of the member interest group at ACLM, and you can be part of many interest groups and it's the RN/APRN group. Uh, and I share this and we've done presentations on it. we did a workshop actually at the A C L M conference on Sunday and teaching strategies, mm. You know, to implement lifestyle medicine in their work. You know, wherever your environment is, whether it's an academic environment, a clinical environment, and actually it's all inclusive because this is not just, you know, specific for nurses. We had a good number of attendees for the workshop and they were not all nurses, mind you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There were some physicians, some registered dieticians, a social worker, nursing administration.

[00:20:09] Susie: That's great. Cause I feel like it with everything these days, I'm thinking there needs to be, , um, desire, like grassroots, students or people desiring it, and then also top down.

[00:20:21] Karla: A lot has to do with timing because Dr. Gia Marlo already had her course that one semester she started her course, I believe virtually, pertaining to the graduate course. And I wanted to get a course in for the undergraduate students. Right. And so it had to pass through the faculty committees. There were a number of them. It was vetted by the faculty and faculty council at the school and by the dean.

So I, I was lucky. I was really lucky. I had to change the title. It's, you notice I, the title of the course is Lifestyle Approaches and Not Lifestyle Medicine. Mm-hmm. . Right. They weren't, they weren't keen on the lifestyle medicine. So we had to change it up a little bit. And again, this course is just geared to self-care. And it's all a timing thing. It was very serendipitous because that's when the American Association for Colleges of Nursing came out with their re-envisioned essentials and self-care was one of the domains, domain number 10.

And it just, it was all about timing. So we wanted to emphasize right, a course pertaining to self-care. I took The certification exam for lifestyle medicine in 2020. Um, and I was certified, so it made me, I guess, a content expert. So I was credentialed in teaching the course. 

[00:21:42] Susie: Right. Right. That's great. Has it morphed over time as you've, you know, this is your third go at it, I guess. 

[00:21:50] Karla: Thankfully I'll be teaching it again in the spring for students. So I, so yes, there's a learning curve, of course, definitely a learning curve since the first semester, you know, things I would've done differently. But, I gauge the students to see where they're at, and we take it from there. That space in the room is, is supposed to be a safe space. Right. Yeah. 

[00:22:13] Susie: I love that you're doing this and that you're sharing it because So many more leaders, uh, schools of nursing could also be implementing and doing what you're doing. I've reached out to some of my previous stomping grounds, which was a couple of decent universities, you know? Yes. And, um, when I reach out to some folks I know and talk about lifestyle medicine or offer up some stuff, it's just radio silence. And that disappoints me a little bit. You know? 

[00:22:43] Karla: Yeah. You have to wonder why, I mean, why is there no buy-in or looking at the curriculum itself? Do they have that space for electives or are there electives because it's all content driven for the NCLEX. 

[00:22:56] Susie: That's right, that's what I was about to say. Yep. Which is the national certifying exam that nurses have to pass to be able to practice, right? Yes. Same thing in medicine as well. A different certification but, um, you have to pass that and if this content is not on that exam, Then it's less priority, right, for teaching. 

[00:23:16] Karla: And every day or every week there's something on the news pertaining to nurses and burnout. But you know, we just, I, there was an article I shared with students yesterday, because I teach on Mondays and it is reported, that they're going to need 200,000 nurses. There's such a high demand for nurses, right now. 200,000 nurses every year until 2030 to fill the void because they have a lot of, according to this C B S news article, it said that they have a lot of travel nurses and that there's been a lot of attrition with the nursing profession due to, again, mostly due to the height of covid.

[00:24:00] Susie: And I would say some, cuz I remember my nursing days and then even as a nurse practitioner feeling a little burnt out even before Covid . And then that's just additional pressure, on top of a strained system. But yeah, that's seems like an emergent situation. What do you think some of the message is that you want to share, like a key takeaway for an educator? In particular in any school of nursing? 

[00:24:23] Karla: Well, I need to explore my own insights into these pillars and what it means to me. And my way isn't the only way. I taught this course last semester and that semester I had three students in there who were exclusively vegan and it was sort of an agenda on their part. It seemed like that was the only way, or it's the highway. So I, I, everyone's food plan is acceptable. Everyone's, they have a, a relationship with food. We all do. 

And I certainly saw that it was very poignant in those papers I read. And believe me, it was not, it was, it was not all plant based, you know, a lot of them and that's what they grew up with.

[00:25:08] Susie: And food, you know, food is very social and cultural, right? I mean, it brings people together. We have, even for me, when I was transitioning to this way of life, I felt this a little bit of a grief almost, cuz my mom was this fantastic baker and she used to bake all of these wonderful desserts. I was thinking, well, I can't bake that now, which is, she's gone, she's passed away now for 10 years and that is a way that we would connect and remember her. You know what I mean? Yes. So food can be very emotional even when, you know, maybe I should adopt this recipe to something a little healthier.

[00:25:47] Karla: I was very happy though, however, one of the papers, there was a student that was of Dominican Heritage, and she mentioned a drink, a holiday drink. It's almost like an eggnog, but it's not, it's from the Dominican Republic, but she was going to modify it to a dairy free version. And I'm like, that's gr you know, I didn't you know, go crazy about that. But I, I was inside, I was, I'm like, that's. Just passing it down and making changes, because unfortunately a lot of these foods are not the greatest, long term, I guess. Right, right. But one of the takeaways is, it's not just about the food, that it's all about how these pillars are interconnected, you know, with each other, and that there's so much more, it's so much more than just about the food.

It's really about exploring your own insight and how if you wanna make changes, you know, it's a lot about behavioral change and I mentioned Dr. Imogene King. She's the one that proposed the theory of goal attainment is what it was called. Mm-hmm. How do you attain these goals? Where are you coming from? Is what it is, at a good place or not so good place. And most of us for that matter, our relationship not just with food, but maybe with o obviously other, other areas, maybe physical activity. I also tell students it doesn't have to be exercise. Notice I didn't say the word exercise and nor is it called exercise. It's called physical activity. Any type of movement is better than no movement. You know, it's better than being sedentary . Um, so making any type of change, most of us, unfortunately, are in the pre-contemplation stage, where it involves ambivalence. Where we what more, there's more cons than there are pros. And, how do we shift that mindset? Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:35] Susie: How do some of the nurses that are learning this, do you hear stories about them using it or implementing it at the bedside? 

[00:27:44] Karla: Yeah, uh, they speak to it. Some students do speak to it with their patients. I always mention to them if they have that opportunity to speak to patients pertaining to sleep, if it's possible, the recommendations for sleep using those recommendations, uh, about alcohol or about physical activity before going to sleep or about using screen time or using the computer. So, yeah, they do, some of them do some of them. Again, it's really about where they're coming from, what's their place, where are they in that? 

[00:28:16] Susie: It's hard to learn all the things in nursing school. 

[00:28:20] Karla: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is not meant to cause them any stress. Especially now in their last semester. There's also content about stress management and the last thing I wanna do is impose any stress on them, you know, in their last semester. But we do, we do the meditation, you know? At the beginning of class when we can, we do it because sometimes there's schedule conflicts with the presenter, but I invite presenters from the ACLM. actually, Kelly Freeman, who's a director of Education Advancement or Academic Advancement from ACLM presented yesterday as well.

So I get experts from ACLM or just local in New York City who can speak to lifestyle medicine. Even Bellevue, the Bellevue Clinic, who I have Dr. Sapana Shah who also is a director or charge of the plant-based lifestyle clinic at Bellevue Hospital. Hmm. And there's been an opportunity to share or invite students to observe these actually intake histories with patients. 

[00:29:25] Susie: That's amazing. 

[00:29:26] Karla: Yeah. That, so I'm so glad, you know, just making those connections. And we're really close to Bellevue. We're, we're like diagonally across from the Bellevue Hospital. 

[00:29:34] Susie: Mm-hmm. .And that's where you had mentioned Dr. McMacken at the beginning. Yes. And that's where they have their clinic, right?

[00:29:40] Karla: Yeah. So she's a director of all six clinics now. Uh, I don't see Dr. McMacken. I used to, you know, before, but, uh, she presented, actually. I invited Eric Adams at that time he was Brooklyn borough president and Dr. McMacken to do a presentation for nursing faculty and students. And it was well attended, but that was like in 2019 mm, and I remember, I remember seeing Eric Adams crossing the street, you know, coming in in the evening to come upstairs and speak to faculty and nursing. Oh, nice. So we've come a long way. Mm-hmm. . 

[00:30:19] Susie: It sounds like you're getting started with all this and then Covid hit, so that kind of Well, but what a great time to, you know, tend to some lifestyle things.

[00:30:28] Karla: And I also do some experiential learning in terms of growing sprouts. I showed them how to grow sprouts. Oh, I, I applied for the, uh, I applied for these lifestyle grants. Micro grants is what they're, And again, this is all by being a member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. So I was able to purchase some mason jars seeds for sprouting. And I show them in class and then they take the seeds with them in a baggy and they grow them at home. And all they have to do is show pictures of what it looks like, you know? Nice. And I also show them the hierarchy of grains.

[00:31:07] Susie: Oh, that's a good one. 

[00:31:09] Karla: Yeah, a lot of them know what oatmeal is, but then I ask them, okay, what kind of oatmeal are you buying? And again, it's not to criticize anybody, but did you know that it actually comes from the oat groat? So I showed them what each one looks like, the rolled oat, the steel coat cut oats, the quick oats, the oat groats. And I actually cooked in an Instapot. I actually cooked, uh, oat groats for students because you can make it savory or sweet. It's like rice.

[00:31:39] Susie: Cause the experiential part is really, that kind of solidifies everything, when you get to see or touch or feel it.

[00:31:45] Karla: Most definitely. I pour it onto the, the table and I show them, you know, they get to see what each type of oat looks like. So that that sort of makes it more realistic for them. And they didn't, they didn't know, a lot of them didn't know about the oat groat. They never heard of it.

[00:32:01] Susie: Right. And I hadn't really until I, I heard Brenda Davis talking and I was just fascinated. But since we're on that, can you tell us how you do it in the Instant Pot, how you do the oat groats? 

[00:32:14] Karla: So I just rinse off the, that's like rice. So I rinse off the, the oat groats, uh, in, so I put one cup of oat groats in a pot, and they say, in order for it to cook a little faster, use some boiling water or hot water , I use that from my tea kettle.

So I use one cup of oat groats, dried oat groats, and one cup of hot water. and I had set the timer, I use the manual pressure. Mm-hmm. the button, not because there's a button for rice. Yeah. And the button for rice is only 12 minutes. And, uh, it's, that's not just any ordinary type of rice. This is, this takes a long time to cook.

So I cook it for like 15 minutes on my Instapot. Mm-hmm. . And I let it, I let it release its own steam or pressure on its, It takes about, honestly, 20, it does take about 20 minutes overall. So if you already have the hot, boiling water and you so it, it, it sort of bypasses that stage, right? So it doesn't become 20 minutes, it becomes like 15 minutes now.

[00:33:23] Susie: Mm. Yeah. Just kickstart it a little. 

[00:33:26] Karla: Yes, yes. Yeah. And you, you don't have, sorry, you don't have to do it that way. You can use, certainly just use the filtered water. One cup of water, one cup of oat groats . It tastes good. It's very savory. I mean, again, if you like savory or if you want it sweet, however you want it, whatever toppings, you know, the idea is to get people to want, you know, if you wanna add nuts, if you wanna add, uh, you know, again, for students, you know chocolate chips or granola, it's whatever they like that, that you're adding fiber. And honestly, there isn't a very big difference between the fiber content between that and steel cut. Let me tell you, the only thing is that you have more bang for your buck when it comes to nutrient assimilation. And , the groats itself are, uh, they are increased in surface area. Which that's a good thing. So the more processed it is there's a decrease in surface area. Mm-hmm. of nutrient absorption and assimilation. Mm-hmm. . 

[00:34:27] Susie: And when you're talking about that, you mean our, in our inside our bodies, right? 

[00:34:30] Karla: Yes, yes, yes. 

[00:34:32] Susie: Thank you so much. Anything else before we end our conversation?

[00:34:36] Karla: I show them documentaries too. 

[00:34:38] Susie: What's your first one you, you recommend? First documentary. 

[00:34:41] Karla: So the one I showed them was the plant. I don't know what it, oh gosh. It's from ACLm to be honest with you. I forgot Plant Nation? I'm pretty sure it's Plant Nation. It's like 45 minutes and it's free, it's available to, anybody. That one was very good. And then Code Blue. I showed them code blue and pertaining to Dr. Saray regarding her multiple sclerosis journey. 

[00:35:10] Susie: Right. I love that one. They previewed that one in 2019 when I was at the conference. And my husband likes that one. He's not a medical person, but he, you know, cuz I make him watch all the movies. Yeah. And, um, he really liked Code Blue cuz he said he felt like it really pulled it all together for the lay person in a nice way. I can link those in the, in the show notes too. Thank you very much and I really appreciate your time and chatting with me today.

[00:35:37] Karla: Yeah, thank you for your time. Thank you so much. I appreciate, 

[00:35:40] Susie: keep doing what you're doing and we'll make those ripples in the nursing profession. 

[00:35:45] Karla: And have a, if you celebrate Thanksgiving, have a happy holiday. 

[00:35:49] Susie: Yes, you too.