Finding Joy and Celebration in Pet Cancer, Loss, and Grief

Trigger Warning! This episode discusses grief and loss, cancer diagnoses and treatments,and emotional stories of pet loss.

In this episode, I welcome my guest, Sally Williams. She has dedicated her adult life to cats and nonprofits. Sally is a lifelong animal lover, former pet sitter, cat behaviorist, cat advocate, Founder of The Brodie Fund, speaker, proud cat mom and Founder and President of Mission Meow. She lives in New Jersey with her husband of 30 years, Scott. They have 4 amazing cats, named The Pawsome Foursome, and includes Jonesy, West, Henry and Jameson- you’ll hear everything about these amazing cats in the next episode! 

In this episode you’ll meet Marlin and Brodie, the two cats that truly changed Sally’s life. Sally details the stories of how both cats found her, developed their bonds, their cancer diagnoses and treatments. We talk about how those tremendous experiences led Sally to create a nonprofit to help other Pet Parents dealing with cancer in their cats. Sally and I also discuss the grief we feel when dealing with the loss of our pets. From anticipatory grief when our pets become ill and need medical treatment, to the actual loss of our fur babies. I hope you enjoy this incredible conversation and emotional experience between the two of us. 

Learn more about Sally, her nonprofit Mission Meow and contact her here:

https://missionmeow.org/

https://www.facebook.com/MissionMeow/

https://www.instagram.com/MissionMeow

Contact Julie:

Join The Story of My Pet Free Support Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thestoryofmypet

Follow and DM me on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thestoryofmypetpodcast

Check out my website: https://linktr.ee/allthingspetsdrjulie

Loved this episode? Leave a review and rating here: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-story-of-my-pet/id1622099729

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

All About Art, Animals, and Pet Portraits

https://thestoryofmypetpodcast.buzzsprout.com/1983300/11120486

Rescue, Fostering & TNR, Plus Pets & Our Mental Health 

https://thestoryofmypetpodcast.buzzsprout.com/1983300/10937640

Transcript

The Story of My Pet Podcast
Episode 17- Finding Joy & Celebration in Pet Cancer, Loss, and Grief
Host: Julie Marty-Pearson
Guest: Sally Williams

[00:00:00]
Hello. Hello, my friends and fell animal lovers. Welcome to another episode of the story of my pet podcast. I'm your host, Julie Marty Pearson, and I'm excited to welcome a new guest in today's episode, Sally Williams. Hi, Sally.

[00:00:15]
Thank you so much for joining me. Hi, thank you you for having me as a guest. Julie yes. I'm very excited about our conversation because we are fellow cat ladies, and so we're going to have lots to talk about. But first, I'm going to give you a little background info on Sally.

[00:00:34]
She is a lifelong animal lover, former pet sitter, cat behaviorist, cat advocate, and founder of the Brodie fund. She's also a speaker and a proud cat mom. I know that feeling very well. And she's the founder and president of mission meow, which we're going to talk about. I'm very excited to learn more about that.

[00:00:57]
She's been married to her husband Scott for 30 years, and they have four amazing cats called the possum foursome. Amazing. And she has dedicated her adult life to cats and nonprofits, mainly because of two cats, Marlin and Brodie, who changed her life. Wow, that's a lot of amazing things. And also a lot of similarities.

[00:01:23]
I, too, am a pet sitter and a lifelong animal lover and cat advocate, among other things. So I'm really excited for our conversations. Again. Welcome Sally. Thank you for being here.

[00:01:36]
Well, I'm excited, too. We have so much to talk about. A lot in common. Yes. So let's just jump right into it and talk about your two cats that changed your life.

[00:01:49]
Yeah, marlin and Brodie. So we would start with Brodie because he was the first one that changed my life. So Brody came into our lives, my husband and I, after we had a cat that passed away. And we gave some time to heal and kind of grief and very randomly out one day and near our local shelter. And I just said to my husband, let's just stop by and look.

[00:02:20]
And so went inside and to be very perfectly honest, my husband had a tiny hangover.

[00:02:31]
We were in this open cat room, and he started to feel a little off because, you know, litter and shelter. So he said, I'm going to go outside and you see if you meet anybody. And this adorable young teenager, kind of gangly cat came my way with these big ears and this kind of very long squiggly tail. He was very odd looking, and his name was Nestor, but he was so sweet. And I inquired about him, and he just got overlooked because he had this very vocal, very loud meow, kind of like a siamese meow.

[00:03:13]
And he's kind of odd looking, but he was so sweet. And I thought, wow, I usually adopt the ones that are a little bit shy or maybe need somebody more. I couldn't imagine that he got passed over because at the shelter, they labeled him, I'm giving air quotes now, bulletproof, because good with people, good with dogs, good with cats, good with kids. Like, why is this kitty still there? I held him up in the window.

[00:03:38]
My husband was in the parking lot, and I pointed to him and he gave me the thumbs up and I didn't even have a carrier with me. And we loaded them into the cardboard carrier and headed off to, I think, PetSmart, which my husband was like, I'm going to wait in the car. This is going to be a long visit. So I'm like a kid candy store. That's my jam, going in a place like that.

[00:04:02]
And I was in there for about an hour, came out and there was my husband. He had leaned the seat back, the cat was out of the carrier and sleeping on him. And I that cat is not mine anymore.

[00:04:19]
Many, many years went by and he was exactly that. He was perfect. I always say he never met a lap he didn't like. I mean, he just loved everybody. And then he was about twelve years old and started sneezing a lot.

[00:04:34]
And we weren't very concerned. Thought it made up a respiratory infection and allergies. And then we thought maybe it was a tooth that was bothering him. And the tooth part was what led to figuring out when the tooth was pulled, they took a biopsy and we found out he had cancer, he had a natural tumor. And so long conversations.

[00:04:57]
And my husband was of the mindset, I was like, you can't treat a cat with cancer. I was of the mindset like, how could we not treat a cat with cancer? So we took him to our local specialist hospital that had an oncology team. And after talking with Dr. Dustin Lewis, we realized we wanted to treat him because basically they described a situation like this and he was probably in pain.

[00:05:20]
But cats are notoriously stoic and I mean, I very on top of these things. And he did not show any signs except for this kneesing. So we agreed we would treat him with radiation, which was a four week, five day week protocol, very expensive. But we just did whatever we had to do to make it happen because we thought otherwise we have very little time left. And with this treatment, we'll have a minimum of a year.

[00:05:48]
And we thought, wow, in the life of a cat, a whole year, that's a long time. I think when we think of, in human terms, people think of it differently. But a year is a very long time. We ended up getting 13 months. But what happened was I was there at the hospital every day, five days a week, while he was going in for treatment.

[00:06:09]
And I heard a lot of stories. I heard people talking to doctors, things that just broke my heart. As families that couldn't afford treatment and then heard the term, heard a lot of palliative care. And then I heard something I'd never heard before, which was economic euthanasia. And I thought, that just is something that you never want to hear, that after palliative care, you just can't afford anything anymore, and that's the best you can do.

[00:06:34]
And it's heartbreaking for the owners. It's heartbreaking for the veterinarians. Nobody wants this to happen. And I'm not saying treatment was easy for us, and that financially, it was a huge commitment. But in that moment, I think the next day, I went in and talked to the oncologist and said, what can I do?

[00:06:50]
How can I help? And he was the first board member of the Brody Fund. And the Brody Fund was founded to offer financial assistance to families that had dogs and cats diagnosed with cancer. Had never run a nonprofit before. I had volunteered at a shelter and started volunteering for a nonprofit in that hospital.

[00:07:11]
And we actually started under the umbrella of that organization because I had never done this before, and very quickly decided that I wanted to have this own entity, because everybody knows the nonprofit world. There are bylaws and things, and I wanted to decide how this should run, not have it be another organization's decision. And filed for nonprofit status. And four weeks later, it was a nonprofit director. Wow, it was an amazing run.

[00:07:39]
Almost seven years, 71 grants given, over $200,000 in grants given. It sounds amazing, but what makes it even more amazing is that we probably could have given more grants, but we made a decision to fully fund cases. So instead of offering a thousand or $2,000, while helpful, still leaves the families most of the time looking for more money. So we decided we'll give fewer grants, but fully fund them. And if we don't have the funding, but we knew how much we could give, we would help them find the rest of the funding by helping them get that next grant or just doing it ourselves.

[00:08:19]
You know, here's the organization. They've committed x amount of money. I mean, we gave grants up to $10,000. Wow. That's amazing.

[00:08:28]
And we called it giving the gift of time. Brody was the inspiration for all of that, partially because of going through the treatment with him, recognizing that pets can be treated for cancer. He after his treatment, and even during it, mostly he was just tired, and he had a little gray stripe down his nose to the radiation. But after the treatment was finished, he lived a really good life. And even though it was only 13 months, like I said, 13 months in the life of the cat, really long time.

[00:09:04]
We wanted to give him time back, recognizing that he probably did experience some pain because there was a tumor there, we wanted him to have that back. And we did other things, chinese herbs, acupuncture, all these other things. And he was fantastic, the perfect patient, because he could go to the vet easily. He could be handled easily. He was just a dream for all that.

[00:09:26]
And I'm so grateful that and the reason why we called it giving the gift of time when we gave these grants was because that's what I got. I got the gift of time. And so with the Brody Fund, it was whether it was three months or three years, it matters. Yeah. He was the inspiration behind that, and he was inspired us that we didn't limit this to younger animals we gave to senior pets, and we didn't base it on prognosis.

[00:09:58]
And what I mean by that is, if they said three months or curative, we didn't discount the only three months because sometimes three months became a year. Sometimes it was a year became three months. Because cancer has a mind of its own. So we never based anything on that. We just based it on best that the vet can tell us the pet will do well with this treatment.

[00:10:21]
That was the biggest priority. Right. That makes a lot of sense, because you don't want to make it makes me think of, like, transplant care with people they're put on the list. And it's not necessarily because they can have three years after it or five years. There's all these different components that go into it.

[00:10:40]
And so the fact you're saying you worked with the vets to say who's not the best candidate, but you think we'll be able to make it through the treatment itself, because sometimes that can be the most difficult part for an animal. Yeah. And, I mean, interestingly enough, cats generally do better with these types of treatments than dogs. Dogs often have GI problems. I'm not talking about serious problems.

[00:11:01]
And there always can be something serious. But usually pets do very well with treatment. We always go to what we think, what happens with people, and generally that doesn't happen with pets. Right.

[00:11:17]
And fast forward and even with Marlin and I'll get to that. I really wanted people to know that cats could do this, because cats are 50% less likely to just even be seen by a vet than imagine what people are thinking about treatment. So it's a big hurdle to get people to think that cats can go to the vet, be treated, all that. So Brody was really a shining example of, this is possible. Treatment can give you more time.

[00:11:47]
There is help out there. So a lot of things happened with that. And yeah, brody was an incredible inspiration. The only thing I wish is that we have more time. That's it.

[00:11:59]
Right. Yeah. Listening to your story of Brody and just everything that you were able to do with the Brody Fund, I started thinking about my own cats that I've lost. And think about what you said, time, what with 13 months give you that's a huge amount of time. You do whatever you can to get that time just currently we have a pet that has diabetes and it's very expensive but he's been on insulin for two years and doing great.

[00:12:28]
And to think that rewind back to them and we made a different decision for some reason. I just can't imagine that. Yeah. And you know what? Everybody has to choose what's best for them and their pets.

[00:12:41]
In conversations with people I would never tell anybody, oh, you know, like, so I have four cats right now and they're all different types of personalities just like other people's. And some probably would be okay with being treated for different things and others wouldn't. It's a very individual decision. And the pet parent really has to talk with the doctor and decide what's best. Cancer treatment is not for every pet, not for every situation.

[00:13:06]
But in the cases that we worked with, they were like family to me. And I met so many of these animals and seeing the owners and the joy that they had knowing that they had more time, it was incredible. Incredible. And the Brodie Fund, you know, I will say this because it's important that since I talked about it the Buddy Fund did not close because it wasn't a viable nonprofit. It really was.

[00:13:35]
It was more that I couldn't live in the pet cancer world anymore. And we worked with a nonprofit coach to try to see what we could do. But for some reason, nobody wanted to run a pet cancer fund working 40, 50 hours a week for free. So it was not something that we could easily find somebody else to do it. So we made the difficult decision to raise as much money as we could at the end give some big grants to the hospitals that we worked with and then close the fund.

[00:14:08]
So it was through a lot of tears. We had a final event. We were all like family. Brodie gave so many gifts to us. The fund helping other people and the people that I met with the Brody funds that was one of the hardest things to say goodbye to.

[00:14:22]
Although we're still all in touch. But it's not the same because we're not regularly working together. But a lot of those people met Brody and they feel the same way. How special he was and he still inspires me. That's so great.

[00:14:38]
I can just imagine the bond that you all share together. And I think a lot of times people don't realize how difficult it is to work in the pet world. When you're working at a shelter or a veterinarian's office or a nonprofit you see day in and day out animals in need, animals in pain, animal suffering. And you do so much. But it is physically and emotionally exhausting.

[00:15:04]
So I don't imagine we'll recognize it with this. We hear a lot more about the veterinary community. I'm glad these conversations are happening that we're understanding more what vets are going through and the burnout and the compassion fatigue and all of that, especially after coming through a lockdown and all that. I don't think there's much maybe there's probably less recognition for something like this because they're thinking, I put a smile on my face. I'm in the face of your organization, but they don't recognize that.

[00:15:35]
I'm getting applications every day, and people are begging for help, and you can't help them all, and it becomes just very overwhelming, especially during lockdown and the number of applications. And I wanted to help everybody, and I responded to every single email, whether I could help them or not, to try to offer some guidance. I signed up for a grief counseling course. I was in the process of getting certified as a grief counselor, so I was taking a lot on and not doing a very good job of putting the oxygen mask on myself. And it was burnout.

[00:16:09]
It was honestly just burnout. And it was interesting. I was listening to a podcast because I did a lot of listening to podcasts, and we spent so much time at home, and it was Jay Shetty's podcast discussing the eight signs of burnout when I really recognized where I was. And I had lost Marlin at that time, too. So I had three cats with cancer.

[00:16:30]
Finnegan's was treatable, very Knockwood. He passed away from something else, but not cancer. And then Marlin was diagnosed with cancer, and he passed away when we were kind of at the height of everything, when you really weren't allowed into the hospitals and all that. Okay, speaking of Marlin, you want to tell us a little bit about how you met him and he became a part of your family? So as much as I loved my Brody and I love all my boys currently and all of them in the past, marley was my soul cat.

[00:17:06]
If anybody doesn't know what that means, you maybe haven't met yours yet, but there is a special cat that comes into your life, and there's just a bond that is unlike any other. And I would say when I first so I generally in the past, have not really been attracted to adopting kittens. I always kind of gravitated, as I said, to the shy or the ones at the shelter that needed a home more than a kitten would. But I had been diagnosed with two autoimmune disorders and was not working because of that and was really struggling a little bit, wanted to actually get a dog. And my husband then I found it wasn't a dog person.

[00:17:44]
I didn't notice. So I said, okay, I get that, and then I'm going to go and start looking at kittens because I need some joy in my life and something so I'm not thinking about how I'm feeling. And I met this adorable little kitten. I don't know, he was the last one left in the litter, a little tabby, a tuxedo tabby. And I said, to my husband.

[00:18:06]
His name was Marlann, but why don't we call him marlin? This was my way of kind of getting him into the house, because my husband loves to fish, so I was like, let's call him marlin. Brought him home, and he was adorable. I mean, he was the kitten that was very snugly and slept on my head, and he was perfect, and he really got me through a very tough time. We spent a lot of time together, and I had other cats, so we bonded at that time.

[00:18:35]
And then over time, I started to feel better, and I got my you know, my life went different ways, but he was always there was just always something very connected. And I remember starting his instagram page, and it was marlin the Buddha cat, because he sat like a Buddha. I mean, he would sit on the sofa and watch TV with me, but not lay there like a typically, you would think a cat would he would jump up on the sofa and kind of sit and then roll himself back. So now his back is leaning up against the back of the sofa. His legs are kind of hanging out, and his belly is hanging out.

[00:19:11]
And that's how he liked to watch TV with me. And I would take videos and take pictures and share them. And so that's kind of how I started really engaging with him. Why is he sitting like that? That kind of started that, and then I studied.

[00:19:29]
A lot of other things were going on in my life. I was shelter, volunteering. I was studying to become a cat behaviorist, and I launched something called the feline fine project. There were a lot of things going on, but one day I was at home just patting marlin as I did, and having already lived through cancer once, I was already very alert and very in tune with checking for lumps and bumps, looking for anything unusual. And I still have no idea how I found this, because it was like if he had been poked with a pin, it was that tiny.

[00:20:02]
Oh, wow. Like, on the inside of his shoulder. Really, it was a miracle I found it, and I'm so grateful I did. Actually had his nutritionist take a look at it first, because Marlon was a little chubby, so he was on a diet. Marlin the Buddha cat, and she looked at it, and she said, I don't necessarily like it, but I'm not concerned about it yet.

[00:20:23]
Let's keep an eye on it if it changes. And I did watch it. It went from looking like a poke of a pen to kind of looking like a flat scar. Took them to my general vet, who said, I don't know what that is. I think we should biopsy it.

[00:20:38]
And came back. It was massel. Still wasn't concerned, because generally mass sells. You remove it and keep an eye on things, especially in cats, because I've been told many times that mass cell cancer isn't that common in cats. I think that may not necessarily be true, not for the fault of any vets or anything.

[00:20:57]
I just think that how do you know there's one central cancer documentation keeping place, and after having a cat with mast cell cancer and hearing from so many people, I think it might be a little more common than they think. So after the biopsy, I thought, no, I'm just going to take them straight to the oncologist. We're not going to just have it removed and watch it. Luckily, there was a cancelation. I got in the next day, and I'm so grateful I did.

[00:21:22]
It had metastasized. It was in a lymph node already, and he needed surgery immediately. So the following week, he had surgery to remove the mast cell and the lymph node, and he had to start chemo. At that point, you become not just mom, you become chauffeur. You become nurse.

[00:21:42]
You become everything. And you can't help but your bond, it has to deepen. It just does. I didn't know I could love him more, but all of a sudden, you're very aware that every day is a gift. Yeah, our bond just grew.

[00:21:59]
I mean, you can see the pictures of us, but people always said, the way he looks at you. And I'm like, Well, I'm looking back at him the same way he's looking at me. There's just this very deep connection. Smooth sailing. For almost two years, he did very well on the chemo.

[00:22:15]
He started on one kind, went to another, and we ended on palladium, which is a pill that you can give at home. So that was wonderful. Not a lot as many vet visits and something I could just put in a little treat pop in his mouth, on his page. We shifted from becoming a story of a cute little Buddha Valley kitty to sharing his pet cancer journey, because I really wanted people to see that life was good. It went to next level.

[00:22:45]
After his surgery, he had one of those little cones on. I know people can't see me. I'm very animated with my hands. Okay? And I realized the cone wasn't really helping because he could still with his back legs, because it was kind of in the armpit, he could reach it.

[00:23:02]
So I quick zipped out, went to Pet Smart, and the only thing they had in his size was a Batman shirt. We put that Batman shirt on, and next thing we knew, he was a cancer fighting superhero. That really just took off. And all of a sudden, all these tie ins to Batman, and people were sending us Batman stuff from all over the world. And then next thing, he's meeting Batman, me, Batman.

[00:23:32]
Crazy. People really loved it. And he had a bucket list. And eventually, the people that really were following a story called themselves Marlin Nation. I went to a tattoo artist who came up with a logo.

[00:23:52]
I have a big M on my leg that's in a circle that kind of has a Batman font to it. We put it on T shirts which raised money for the Brodie Fund. He became larger to life and meant so much to so many. Not just me. I will always say Marlin was my best teacher.

[00:24:13]
He taught me perseverance. He taught me how to live in the moment. He taught me that you can live every day to the fullest. Even if you're not, like, having a great day, there's something in that day that you can make it better. Even if I was having a day with the autoimmune stuff, I wasn't feeling good.

[00:24:31]
There could be something in that day that I could find that I was grateful for or felt joyful about. And he really taught me that. We had this very regular tradition where I would film him before we went to the vet, and then I would film him when I brought him home. And I had this deluxe carrier and had all his logos on it and everything. And I would bring it in the front door and I'd get my camera out and I would unzip it and film him because he would go flying out of the carrier straight to his scratcher scratch the Jesus out of this thing.

[00:25:04]
And then he was fine. Anything else about being poked, prodded, any of that, it was all gone. And I thought, God, we can all learn from that, right?

[00:25:15]
Yeah, I can just picture him doing that too. Like, okay it's out. Like someone taking a boxing lesson or something. Whatever it is for you, scream into a pillowcase. Just take it all off, whatever it is.

[00:25:31]
People just were so in love with him. He was so lovable. And I got messages from people who were also going through cancer treatments who said he was helping them. They'd go off to chemo that day and they'd pull up his page to see how he was doing. Some of them were wearing their Marlin Nation T shirts to chemo and sending me pictures.

[00:25:55]
Other people's pets, they were reaching out to me and sharing their pet stories. And so he started a group for other animals that were going through treatment. It was next level, and it was so much fun, and I'm so grateful for it. I met so many amazing people. We were able to support one another if they were going through it with their pets.

[00:26:22]
Yeah, there was so much joy in it. And like I said, that living every day to the fullest message. And we still talk about it. Even though he's no longer with us, he's still with us. The lessons he taught us, the joy that he brought into our lives, that remains.

[00:26:39]
You know, it takes a while after you lose an animal like that. That's your little soulmate. The grieving process was long. And I talked to a grief counselor at my local vet hospital. Highly recommend that to anybody and start it before you lose them.

[00:26:57]
The anticipatory grief is worth talking about and it really made a huge difference for me. But the end was unexpected and painful for us and it was really hard to lose him during COVID. I remember thinking, running a pet cancer fund, can't the universe just stop it? Just don't let anybody's animals pass away. We need them so much more right now.

[00:27:22]
And then I went through it myself and understood how it was a completely different level of grief that you experience. But I will share one thing that so when I knew it was time to say goodbye, he was in the hospital and he had had surgery. The surgery went well. We don't really know what happened. Cancer is a beast.

[00:27:41]
It's tricky, we don't know. But I knew it was time to say goodbye and I won't get into all that, but I knew we had to bring him outside. Couldn't do it in the hospital because I always had wanted to say goodbye at home, whenever that was going to happen, but we didn't get that. And I had his blanket, his Batman blanket, with him. So we went outside.

[00:28:01]
Two of my friends were with me, had him on the blanket and he was given a status and we were very calm and peaceful and lots of kisses. And normally this wouldn't be a good thing, but in this moment, it was remarkable. Off in the distance, not very high, fireworks started going off. Oh, my gosh. And we're all now just crying even more because what a send off for a superhero.

[00:28:25]
You couldn't ask for anything more, right? Fireworks in that moment. And then we said goodbye. And a little bit later on down the road, we had a celebration of life here at my house because it was a little still, we were all still a little concerned about COVID. We had about 30 people spread out in the yard, we had tents, we had a pastor from the local shelter who spoke a little bit, we shared stories.

[00:28:54]
You did everything like you would at any celebration of life, with the exception of Marlin had a very special friend, because we had worked with a nonprofit, another nonprofit with the Brody Fault Fund called Sidewalk Angels, which is run by Marisol and Rob Thomas. So not many old cats have a friend who's a rock star. But Marlin did, because he was a superhero and they loved him. They had been through cancer as well, with a dog. And so we had this bond and I was blessed with being able to share during his celebration of life.

[00:29:29]
A video of Rob Thomas singing these little wonders for my little wonder not a dry eye in the house. Oh, my gosh. The description of all of this, the way he. Passed, and the celebrations just gave me chills. It's such an amazing it's such a hard thing to go through, but to be able to share it and have that celebration of such an incredible feeling, I just can't even imagine.

[00:29:57]
And the thing is and it doesn't have to be so grand. It's just everybody can celebrate their pets life in a special way. I have marlins, ashes. Save some whiskers for me. There's a woman out there who I will share that everybody should know about.

[00:30:17]
She has a jewelry business and it's called Volana kotai. And it's V-O-L-A-N-A-K-O-T-E. She's become a dear friend. She's on the board of Mission Meow now. I saw you post her recently, and I thought, what an amazing way to create jewelry.

[00:30:35]
Yeah, so whiskers. So fallen whiskers typically would send in, and she can do something, but she does memorial pieces. So because Marlin's eyes were green, I have a green heart, and his whiskers are laid in that piece. And it's a necklace that I have that has his whiskers in it forever. So there's always something you can do.

[00:30:57]
I mean, I have a jar, a beautiful jar instead of the box I bought. Somebody suggested this, so I forget what it's called. It's like a Japanese jar. And his little robin, because if his best friend was Batman, then the question was, well, is Marlin really Marlin, or is he Robin? This little collar with an R on it hangs around it.

[00:31:23]
So there's ways that you could do it. You could celebrate with a friend. We have a memorial rock garden here in the backyard for Marlin. And there's a group here called Poetry Stones. There's a larger organization called the Kindness Rocks Project.

[00:31:39]
So I had a woman who runs Poetry Stones come to the house, and I had all these rocks, and I brought my friends over, and we all painted their paint pens. So it's very easy. Anybody can do it. And we painted and they painted in honor of a pet of theirs. I painted in honor of Marlin.

[00:31:56]
And now we have this beautiful rock garden out there. So there's a lot of ways people could celebrate the life of an animal. It doesn't have to be so thing. It's wonderful. But it felt like for Marlin, we needed to do something special, because I realized it wasn't just me grieving there were a lot of people because I so publicly shared him, because I had a pet cancer fund, I felt like I wanted people to be able to share in that, and that's why we had the celebration of life.

[00:32:28]
But I get signs. I don't know if you are a believer in signs. Yes, absolutely. But I definitely get signs that he's still with me. I'll say I was never big into signs until my father passed away five years ago.

[00:32:46]
And ever since then, I get the signs. Seagulls are the signs that he sends me. And so I totally believe in that. And there's such power in it because it's not just something that makes you sad. It makes you like, they're still there.

[00:33:02]
They're a part of me, they're part of the universe. You always have that connection. I think that's why the different things you've talked about and there are so many different ways you can memorialize a pet. And it's something that I really advocate for, because it may be stigmatized that losing a pet isn't as important as the lots of other things or people, but it is, and it's a huge impact on our life, especially, like you said, you have that sole connection with the pet. And it's something that I tried to promote with this podcast in other ways, is just please share it.

[00:33:37]
There's nothing wrong. You shouldn't hold that brief. You need to put it out there. Find your tribe. Not everybody understands it, so don't expect somebody who maybe doesn't have animals in their life to understand how to support you.

[00:33:52]
So find your tribe that will. And for those who don't know what to say, I'm sorry. It's fine. You don't have to know more than that. Just say, I'm so sorry for your loss if you just don't know.

[00:34:05]
But I don't have children. They are my family. And yeah, the loss is devastating, but that's why I really encourage people, and I still do. When I find out if anybody's going through something where their pet may pass, I really encourage talking to somebody before the pet passes. Because there's a book out there actually, if people don't want to talk to somebody called PSI Love You More Than Tuna by Sarah Chauncey.

[00:34:32]
And you can look up also her. She has a lot of articles that she's written about anticipatory grief and things like that. It's incredible because you can start doing things ahead of time so that that day isn't so awful. It's going to be awful, but it does kind of prepare you a little bit. So I would suggest doing something like.

[00:34:53]
That that is so important. So many things are saying, I'm like, yes, thank you. I do not have human children. My four babies are my children and my husband's children and always will be, and we want to do anything for them and pets in need. And when I've lost the two cats, I've lost so far, it is like a piece of you.

[00:35:18]
And also what you're saying about and to support Victoria grief is so important. My Jack had kidney disease for several years. He did well on the diet and everything, and then he got worse and I had to do IVs at home and all of that. And then suddenly one day I woke up and he'd had an aneurysm. And so I had been taking care of him for so long when it just happens in the end.

[00:35:42]
So suddenly I was not at all prepared. I have a doctor in psychology, and I was not prepared. I mean, it's devastating. Yeah. And that's one of the things I'm working to build with this community that I've started with the podcast is that grief and loss and support for Moms and Dads, that especially when you're taking care of a sick cat or dog, like, you know, you're doing it every day, all day long, just like someone taking care of a person going through difficult disease or treatment.

[00:36:15]
Boston I don't think people understand. I mean, even though Marlon was doing well, it's still a lot. Caretaking is hard. I've been through it. And so it's really important to reach out if you have a friend you can talk to.

[00:36:31]
People can reach out to me. I can try to be and point them in the right direction, because it's really important to talk about it. Absolutely. No, I think that's so important. Yeah.

[00:36:42]
And be open to the signs, because once your path has passed, if you will remain open to the signs. And one interesting thing I will say is, and this is not for everybody I will put out there I'm an animal reiki practitioner. I'm very open minded about these things. I talked to an animal communicator because I was feeling like I was so stuck in my grief, I needed to talk to somebody. And she actually said to me, my grieving process is blocking Marlin from showing me signs because I'm so stuck there, and he's having a hard time connecting.

[00:37:19]
And she said, I have a message for you. He doesn't want you to be this way. His legacy for you is not grief. And, boy, was that a wake up call. And then after that, the signs just started coming.

[00:37:34]
And I don't know whether it's a connection to west, who I adopted after him, whether somehow there's a part of him in there. They are connected, and it's unmistakable, like the things that have happened. You cannot make these things up. So, yeah, be open to the signs. It's worth it.

[00:37:55]
It will help you feel tremendous joy. It really will. It's a Bowie moment. No, but it's an important thought to make. And for all types of grief, people who have lost anyone a spouse, a parent, a family member, a friend when you're so stuck in the grief, you don't necessarily see what's on the other side of it.

[00:38:19]
And it's not easy. But just talking about it makes people feel better. That's why Greece support groups, whether it's virtual or in person, are so important. In over two years since I lost Marlin, I still have moments. I have four fabulous cats right now, and I will never have another Marlin.

[00:38:37]
So there are moments because of that awareness where I still get sad. But then I look at these four boys that I have right now who are so amazing, and even though I might not have another Marlin, again. I will never also have another west or Henry or Jonesy or Jameson. So I have to remember that and honor their lives now. And I also think it's important what you said about the connection to your current pets.

[00:39:05]
One moment I remember I had brought the ashes of my Jack home. He was my first cat. I'd had him for almost 18 years. And so I had come into the bedroom with the bag and I opened it and I got the box out and Frenchie, one of my youngest cat, jumped up on the bed and started rubbing her cheeks on it. And it was just this moment.

[00:39:27]
I would have been a puddle, but. It was so powerful for me because it was like that was her way of saying, welcome home, Jack. You're back where you belong. And so I think it's just like you said, opening yourself to see those connections, to see those signs, because it will be so amazing if you just allow that into your space. Yeah.

[00:39:52]
Wow. What a powerful conversation I had with Sally. So much so there's even more that we talked about, but because we ended up talking so much and about so many things, I decided to break it up into two episodes. So this episode that you just listened to, we talked a lot about grief, a lot about anticipatory grief, about compassion fatigue. As a pet parent, as a vet, as anybody dealing with a sick pet or pet that is dealing with health issues, it can be a lot for us.

[00:40:31]
And I just want you all to know that you're not alone. Feeling grief over a pet is absolutely normal and natural. Sometimes we actually feel grief even more for a pet because we spend as much time with them as we do with our spouses, with our kids, sometimes more with our parents, with our friends, because we have a pet with us every day, all day long. After COVID, I work from home now, I get to see my pets every day, all day long. And it really is a powerful thing.

[00:41:04]
So if you're feeling emotional, it's okay. It's natural for you to hear stories that others have been through and to feel that yourself. If you've gone through a recent loss and you're dealing with that grief or you remember a pet you've lost before, it's totally natural. And if you want to reach out to me in any way, I welcome that. You can reach me on social media, you can comment on a post or send me a DM.

[00:41:31]
You can send me an email julie at the Story of My Pet Podcast.com. And also, as a life coach, I do offer grief coaching services. I do one on one brief coaching, and I even have a grief coaching group just for pet parents, people who are anticipating a pet loss or who have gone through a pet loss and want other people who understand to talk to and share your stories and share ideas of how to help. And also, I'm creating a minicourse on dealing with grief and helping you to think about ways to memorialize your pet. So please reach out to me on social media, via email, whatever works best for you.

[00:42:17]
If you want to talk about your pet, I'm happy to hear your stories and our next episode with Sally. Again, you'll get to hear about her amazing current cats possum. For some, it's lots of fun to hear about them and the story for each of them, as well as hear about how her love of cats has inspired her to start a brand new nonprofit organization called Mission Meow. So stay tuned. The next episode, you hear more with me and Sally and all about her amazing cats.