Quitting your dream job to start a business is a risky decision, especially if you’re in a high-ranking, visible position. And Nicole Marra, did just that.
As the CEO and Founder of Fixer Advisory Group, Nicole works with some of the world's most dynamic luxury brands.
Nicole led Gucci America's legal, real estate, compliance, security, and crisis management functions for over a decade before taking the leap and founding Fixer.
In this episode, Nicole and I discuss
This episode at a glance:
[16:29] When Nicole made the leap, support was coming from all sides. The people around her carried her over the launch line.
[21:13] The most significant challenge she faced: wearing all the hats simultaneously.
[25:13] When men build businesses, they surround themselves with help. Women often try to build systems so they don’t need to ask for help.
[31:52] ”The Power of the Pack”: the power that women have when they work together.
[37:19] The foundations of running a business (or having any type of career) as a woman.
[56:03] What Nicole’s Times Square billboard would say: Enough of being afraid of everything. Put yourself out there. You can’t live in fear of what might happen.
Resources and links mentioned in this episode
You might also like
More about the “My Good Woman” podcast
My Good Woman is a podcast for new and future female leaders, hosted by me, Dawn Andrews! I’m a happily married hockey mom, proud female leader, and founder and CEO of Free Range Thinking, where we turn founders into confident CEOs with strategic consulting and leadership training.
Grab a seat at the table with me each week for candid conversations with culture-shifting, glass ceiling-busting, trailblazing women, who are leading enterp
Want to increase revenue and impact? Listen to “My Good Woman” for insights on business strategy and female leadership to scale your business. Each episode offers advice on effective communication, team building, and management. Learn to master routines and systems to boost productivity and prevent burnout. Our delegation tips and business consulting will advance your executive leadership skills and presence.
Quitting your dream job to start a business is a risky decision, especially if you’re in a high-ranking, visible position. And Nicole Marra, did just that.
As the CEO and Founder of Fixer Advisory Group, Nicole works with some of the world's most dynamic luxury brands.
Nicole led Gucci America's legal, real estate, compliance, security, and crisis management functions for over a decade before taking the leap and founding Fixer.
In this episode, Nicole and I discuss
This episode at a glance:
[16:29] When Nicole made the leap, support was coming from all sides. The people around her carried her over the launch line.
[21:13] The most significant challenge she faced: wearing all the hats simultaneously.
[25:13] When men build businesses, they surround themselves with help. Women often try to build systems so they don’t need to ask for help.
[31:52] ”The Power of the Pack”: the power that women have when they work together.
[37:19] The foundations of running a business (or having any type of career) as a woman.
[56:03] What Nicole’s Times Square billboard would say: Enough of being afraid of everything. Put yourself out there. You can’t live in fear of what might happen.
Resources and links mentioned in this episode
You might also like
More about the “My Good Woman” podcast
My Good Woman is a podcast for new and future female leaders, hosted by me, Dawn Andrews! I’m a happily married hockey mom, proud female leader, and founder and CEO of Free Range Thinking, where we turn founders into confident CEOs with strategic consulting and leadership training.
Grab a seat at the table with me each week for candid conversations with culture-shifting, glass ceiling-busting, trailblazing women, who are leading enterp
Want to increase revenue and impact? Listen to “My Good Woman” for insights on business strategy and female leadership to scale your business. Each episode offers advice on effective communication, team building, and management. Learn to master routines and systems to boost productivity and prevent burnout. Our delegation tips and business consulting will advance your executive leadership skills and presence.
Ep. 08 | Leaving the "Perfect" Job So You Can Fly Even Higher - with Nicole Marra, Strategic Partner to the World's Most Dynamic Luxury Brands
Dawn Andrews [00:01:04] Quitting your dream job to start a business is a very risky decision. It's especially risky if you're in a high-ranking, visible position at a famous company. My good woman, Nicole Marra, did just that. Nicole is the CEO and founder of Fixer Advisory Group. She's a trusted strategic partner to the world's most dynamic luxury brands. Nicole has earned a reputation as an expert fixer and a creative, collaborative problem solver. She helps her clients improve operations, legal functioning, diversity and inclusion, corporate culture, and more. But prior to starting fixer, Nicole led Gucci America's legal real estate compliance, security, and crisis management functions. It was a big ol' job. This week, Nicole and I discussed what it was like leaving Gucci to start her own business. We also talk about brains, sharing with your team and asking for help, and why women need to stop waiting for permission to think and go big. Enjoy my conversation with Nicole Marra. Hello and welcome to another episode of My Good Woman Lovely Nicole Marra. Hello. It's so nice to have you here. Thank you for being my guest.
Nicole Marra [00:02:15] Hi. It's so great to be here with you. I'm so excited.
Dawn Andrews [00:02:19] Everybody, you have no idea the awesomeness that you are in for. In just a few moments as we break down this conversation, I want to give people a sense of where you came from, Nicole. But first, will you share a little bit about yourself and about Fixer advisory?
Nicole Marra [00:02:37] Sure. So I launched Fixer Advisory Group a little over a year ago. It's been a project that I've had in the works for several years. I was trained as a lawyer and practiced as a lawyer for many, many years. I spent over ten years as the general counsel for Gucci, and I decided that it was time to pivot and use all of the skills that I had developed over the years for a slightly different purpose, which we can talk more about. And that's how I came to launch Fixer Advisory Group.
Dawn Andrews [00:03:16] I love it. So tell me a little bit about what caused you to start the company? Where did you come from and what made this the next step?
Nicole Marra [00:03:27] Well, it was definitely a process. And for me, I think I've always been drawn to being a problem solver, a listener, a kind of a coach, and certainly a lawyer. And so for me, having spent all of this time at one of the most incredible brands in the world representing the brand and all of the people inside of it, it felt like I loved doing that. I knew I loved doing that. But it was time for me to kind of go out in the world and be big in my own right, as opposed to doing it from this sort of incredibly special position inside a big organization.
Dawn Andrews [00:04:21] I totally get that. I remember when I was working for one of the large Hollywood agencies and working my butt off and appreciating the community, the connections, what I got coming through the phone, people would answer my calls and then having that realization, it's sort of that creeping intuition that you have that may be your future doesn't lie where you are right now. And it was terrifying to come to start to acknowledge that this probably didn't hold my future when all the trappings of it sort of like when you, you know, tell your girlfriends, oh, my boyfriend, you know, on paper, he's fantastic, but I'm just not feeling it, It was kind of like that where you're like, This is fantastic. Everybody's saying, you're so lucky to work there. It's so amazing. You have such great, you know, possibilities, and what a great future. And it just didn't resonate with me. And I remember that seizing pit in my stomach when I came to that realization and knew that it was time to move on. But I didn't know what to move on to. What was your experience like when you were inside this big job where you had built your career you know, you had been building your career, too, and then it was time to move? Was there a moment? How did that transpire?
Nicole Marra [00:05:43] You know, I think there were a series of moments that happened over the course of time where I think I felt sort of out of alignment with myself, I guess. And I wasn't sure initially what that meant for me professionally and what it would look like to resolve that, that feeling of sort of discomfort or, you know, I don't know if the disconnect is the right word, but just feeling like something was not quite right. And I hadn't always felt that way for sure. I mean, for many, many years it did feel right and amazing. And I got to a point where I felt very sad and scared that it didn't feel that way. It's not easy. And, you know, I definitely got a lot a ton of that. You know, how did you get this job? How do you how do I become the general counsel of Gucci? How do I do this? Everybody wanted to know that, especially for a fashion girl and a lawyer, it's like, you know, you can't do much better than that. And then all of a sudden, I'm finding myself or over time, I'm finding myself feeling like, hmm, this just isn't doing it for me anymore. So it really took a tremendous amount of soul searching and a visit with a shaman which is another interesting story. But to really kind of access part of myself that I think I was not really with and to be able to see clearly what it was that I needed to be in alignment with myself moving forward. And then from there, it was about building what that looks like. Based on the sort of qualities that I figured out from sort of the soul searching that I did.
Dawn Andrews [00:07:43] So what was, I mean, we can't go past the shaman reference now, so, but what was revealed? What was it before or after? What headspace were you in? And then what do you think was revealed as a result of that visit? And the reason I ask this question is not only because Shaman, why wouldn't I ask, but also because I think there are so many of us that we hit these moments where we look up and we're starting to realize that whatever we've been doing is not what we're about to do next, but we don't necessarily know what next looks like and we don't know how to deal with that discomfort in between. And I love that in that in-between space was this conversation. So what was that like?
Nicole Marra [00:08:23] It was like nothing I had ever experienced. I had gone on a retreat, sort of a women's only, and a small retreat for a week where I was really just trying to kind of disconnect and reconnect with myself, disconnect from everything else, all the insanity that was going on in my life and reconnect with myself. And there was a shaman who was working with people at the retreat as a group and then individually, and I decided to do a session with her. And by the way, I mean, I don't really believe in it, so I don't really believe, but yet I kind of do. I mean, it sort of lives in a space in between as well, just the concept of it. But I figure you know what, more information is better and why limit myself to sort of the natural world. Let's go beyond and sort of the supernatural.
Dawn Andrews [00:09:22] Why not?
Nicole Marra [00:09:23] Why not? And so really what I got in touch with through talking with her and her kind of taking me through this sort of regression through my life, basically kind of going back in time, going back to my childhood and really getting in touch with the child within me and which is really something kind of beautiful and sad that we always I think all of us, as we grow up, we lose our connection to that inner child. And it wasn't what I expected. I don't know what I expected, but it wasn't that. And so we really got into this conversation or sort of connection around my inner child and what it was that my inner child needed, wanted. How did I want to be treated? How did I want to treat myself? How was I treating myself? And so it actually really went back to my childhood and me going back to my childhood and thinking and really connected with what it felt like when I was a little girl. And the part of that that still lived within me where that part wanted to come out and what she needed. So it was really pretty moving and unexpected. But I think a lot of what happened after that came from me reconnecting with my inner child.
Dawn Andrews [00:10:54] Yeah, that was the source of it.
Nicole Marra [00:10:56] Yeah.
Dawn Andrews [00:10:56] And then that was your guide as you continued to go out and build, It sounds like. Love it. Well, and so coming out of the supernatural world into whatever we want to call reality, although right now, who knows? Was there anything in your background growing up that pointed to, oh, I'm going to run a business someday?
Nicole Marra [00:11:21] You know, in my background growing up, my mother was a therapist. My father was a lawyer. And for better or worse, I felt like those were my options. Do I want to be a psychologist? Do I want to be a lawyer? It seemed like there could be other things I could dabble in, but those were the two sorts of paths that I had to choose from. And, you know, when I think about that and hear myself talk about it, it sounds very limiting. And sometimes, you know, I think it was. But at the same time, you know, I always. Valued and wanted to be someone who could be an expert and an advisor and a helper for people, whether it was around their businesses or their lives, helping them to grow, helping them to learn, and being able to kind of be a guide and a teacher was something that always resonated with me. And I think the manifestation of that was as a therapist or as a lawyer kind of felt very natural and comfortable because it is what I grew up seeing. But also I think it really did fit with me and I still feel like that today. Not that, you know, the only choices are to be a therapist or a lawyer, but the fact is that I actually am both. I'm not certified, so I'm not going to give any therapy to anyone officially. But I do a tremendous amount of listening and sort of helping people to see things differently. And so I think that it's always been a part of me. And the fact that I then figured out a way to turn it into my own business was sort of like the icing on the cake and just has been incredible.
Dawn Andrews [00:13:08] I love that. What I'm hearing, first of all, is that with whatever you thought those limited options were, you've obviously brought them together in a great marriage and put together a wonderful company from it. When I am when I'm working with my clients, one of the things that I do that people find helpful is to have them do ten lives that they want to live. They had a do-over and could do anything else besides the career that they were doing, and what lives they want to live. You want to be a rock star. You want to be a chef. You want to be a, you know, a lawyer, a therapist. And what you described is the next part of the exercise, which is to break those things apart. And what is it about those lives that particularly resonates with you? So is it you know, if we use the rock star example, is it that you want to play an instrument or that you want to be on tour or that you want people to clap for you and yell and scream and, you know, be your fan. And it sounds like you took the best parts of those options and married it up with what you know of yourself. So we started with you as your inner child. Now we have these qualities and gifts and skills and talents that you like to be able to bring to the floor that is starting to form the foundation of what this business has become. How how long was it from having those first realizations that you were out of alignment and wanted to do something else to launching Fixer? What was that time frame?
Nicole Marra [00:14:36] I think it was probably about two years.
Dawn Andrews [00:14:40] Okay.
Nicole Marra [00:14:42] Part of that was because of the pandemic, and so that delayed me slightly, but also part of it was because I really needed to spend time doing the work, understanding what it meant for me to launch a business, to be big in the world in a different way, to show up in a different way and how that was going to look. And, you know, it's I don't think it's a secret that you and I have worked together, but your help in doing that was, you know, incredible. I don't think I could have broken it down into its component parts without you and your sort of being my guide. So I think that, yeah, it was a very specific, intentional, and fairly drawn-out process as I kind of created the framework that I felt I needed to have in order to launch this and make it successful.
Dawn Andrews [00:15:50] Thanks for sharing that. Well, and thank you. It's a delight to work with you, Nicole. But really, the reason I asked the question is that I think people see it, you know, we pop in and see these snippets of people, whether it's on social media or whether it's just because we haven't had time to catch up. And we condense all that time and thinking and preparation and planning and questioning and everything into these small bites. But then we gauge ourselves or measure ourselves against this perceived high-speed process that we think somebody has gone through when in fact, we're missing all of the, you know, for lack of a better word, drama, and consideration that's going on to help build something. And one of the things that I appreciate so much you sharing that because I want women to have access to understand that it's all a continuing growth and exploration process, that you don't wake up one day, drop your job, and then start this new fabulous thing and it launches and it's fantastic. Like everything takes consideration and process and support and team and but it doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing just because it doesn't happen quickly.
Nicole Marra [00:17:04] Absolutely. And there were moments when it felt like it was never going to happen for sure, particularly around March of 2020, when a lot of people.
Dawn Andrews [00:17:22] Put a pin in a lot of things for people.
Nicole Marra [00:17:24] And there were times where I was so sure it was going to happen and that was what sort of kept me going. I remember feeling scared about so many things, about failing, about being, you know, embarrassed about a million things. And one of my mentors said, Write everything down, just get it all out, write all the fears down and save them and put it all out there so that it's not like living in your head tormenting you, but the ups and downs of sort of having those little moments and then also having the moments where I was so tired with everything else going on in my life, but still felt like, you know, I needed to have that one more conversation, or one more, you know. Session reviewing my, you know, anticipated structure, whatever it might be. And it gave me so much energy, more energy than I thought I could have. So it both fed me the process itself, fed and nurtured me as well as, you know, being painful and challenging and difficult. And no, those moments don't show up on Instagram.
Dawn Andrews [00:18:43] No, they don't. And I mean, chasing your dreams does give you it, especially when it's in alignment with what you want. It's amazing the juice that it gives you. Just FYI we're recording this at 7 a.m. Pacific time because I'm so excited to be having this conversation with you so, girlfriend got up at six and put on a lip.
Nicole Marra [00:19:05] Right? It's all of a sudden you don't need that sleep that you thought you couldn't live without. No, not that sleep. We all need it. But having finding extra resources and wells of energy I think happens when you're in alignment with what you want to be doing and when, and you will find it, it will come to you, you know. And that was something that was a really exciting discovery for me.
Dawn Andrews [00:19:34] What else was surprising in the ride to getting the organization started?
Nicole Marra [00:19:39] One of the things that were so important and critical and a little bit surprising was the support that I got from the people around me. It's not that I expected them to be unsupportive, but it was incredibly, wonderful. I don't know what word to use, but to find that there were, you know when I started talking to people about this idea and that was not easy. It's scary, it's scary to share your ideas with people in the world, people that you respect, people that you think might be able to have insights or advise you. And, you know, kind of this I've written about this a little bit, but we've talked about it, but creating a personal board and you know, really who goes on that board and how does it happen? And it's just kind of but you start by reaching out to the people in your life and really putting yourself out there and being vulnerable and being brave to share this idea. And you might get shot down, right? You know, so when I tell you that's a bad idea, that's a dumb idea. You'll never do that or what I don't get it. Or, you know, I mean, all of those responses are what we all fear. And so taking that leap and getting to know a number of really incredible colleagues and friends who I already knew, but knowing them in a different way and having their support and their encouragement and their ideas and their sort of belief in me came, I think, a little bit as a surprise. And it also helped carry me over and I won't say the finish line, but over the launch line for launching the business.
Dawn Andrews [00:21:32] Do you think that's a distinctly feminine or female thing, being afraid to ask for support or afraid of what that support might look like or whether or not it will come? Whether people will be there to cheer you on?
Nicole Marra [00:21:47] I do.
Dawn Andrews [00:21:48] Yeah. Okay.
Nicole Marra [00:21:49] Yeah, I do think it's I think that you know, despite all the feminist kind of progress we've made and, you know, women are obviously reaching incredible heights and doing incredible things every day. There is still this sense, at least for my generation, I think, that, you know, we have to ask permission to be big. We have to apologize for our strengths. We have to not take up too much space. All of those kinds of underlying cultural expectations and social sort of norms that are maybe unspoken really do hold us back. And so I think it makes it that much harder to start the conversation, and I think in part, we don't expect that much because we as women have so few experiences doing that, stepping out, saying, I want to be big. Saying I want to do something different. Can you help me? You know that is a new skill and one that a lot of women don't get to practice very often because it's not a part of sort of what's expected or what's encouraged.
Dawn Andrews [00:23:15] It's interesting that you say that. I'm finding now that the way I describe running a business is that it's like yoga, it's a practice. And all of those moments of, you know, asking for permission, staying small, apologizing. Running a business has been my yoga practice. To not do that, to step up, to be courageous, to be bigger, to be louder, to ask for what I want. Because the idea of who I'm serving, why I have a business in the first place, and the difference that I want to make becomes bigger than my concerns about what people think about me, which I think is another sort of feminine trait. We're always constantly not all of us, but I would say many of us are concerned about, you know, how we'll be received and how people will think of us. And running a business has been my greatest and fastest pathway through all of that too, you know, realizing my own power. It's been super helpful to have that opportunity. And it sounds like you're finding that through your own business as well.
Nicole Marra [00:24:21] Absolutely. And it's and it takes practice again and again and again. So it is a practice in that in that respect. And there are these moments where it feels very hard and like, I have to really push through a lot of discomforts and fear and then other times where it's really just flowing and it feels like super easy and oh, boy, I wonder, why did I even ever feel like it was this was hard. But then the rollercoaster will change direction and it'll go back to feeling hard again. I mean, there's no question that it's an ongoing practice.
Dawn Andrews [00:25:13] Fixer is a year old, two years and a half old.
Nicole Marra [00:25:16] We're always a year and a half old. Yes.
Dawn Andrews [00:25:18] What is a challenge that you faced early on in the ride of the business I mean, nobody expects any challenges. Nobody's looking for them, but they always show up. So what's something a challenge that you've faced so far in this early stage of the life of the business?
Nicole Marra [00:25:35] Well, certainly. And this is not just this isn't unique to me, but trying to wear every hat at the same time. Yeah. You know, I'm wearing the hat of the, you know, the cook and the bottle washer and all of everything in between. And so I think being able to allocate time and divide my time in ways that are going to be most efficient and keeping me working at my highest use has been really, really hard. You know, we've had conversations about this before, Dawn, but it's so hard to not get caught in the trap of just being in the weeds and sort of taking care of the business that you have in front of you, which, of course, needs to be serviced and needs to be treated, you know, with care and excellence. But then, you know, how do you how are you continuing to look toward the future and to be looking at what the kind of longer stretch goals are, to be looking at business development. And so really kind of constantly trying to monitor where the time is getting spent has really important and challenging.
Dawn Andrews [00:26:51] What have you found helpful? What's essential for you to be able to manage that?
Nicole Marra [00:26:57] I mean, one of the first things I did. And, you know, I think that I had the luxury to do this that I'm grateful for, but was to hire an assistant. And I happened to get incredibly, incredibly lucky. Shout out to Heather. Well, I think just. And by the way, you can start with an assistant for, you know, 5 hours a week. It doesn't have to be. And that's kind of what I did. It doesn't it's not like, oh, I need to have some fancy, you know, an assistant who's helping me, you know, 40 hours a week. But just to have someone to help you to that you can delegate small tasks to that is important to you in the sense that they are there to help you with getting shit done because it's only on your plate and it's always on your plate. It's going to be really hard to pick yourself out of the weeds. So that was key. And then I think one of the other things, just from a technology standpoint, working with a program and I use Trello to organize, which is like a project management tool, it has an app and it's, you know, I am not particularly computer tech-savvy, but it's something that even I can use. I can attest to the fact that it's user-friendly.
Dawn Andrews [00:28:24] Even Nicole can use it!
Nicole Marra [00:28:28] Nicole can use it. This is not a paid sponsorship, but I will give a shout-out to Trello also. So having a way where it's sort of to keep the to-do list, keep the action items, keep track of everything. I think having someone to help you do that even if it's just a few hours a week. And having a tool that you can kind of go back to, to keep keeping everything in instead of in five different notebooks, which I've also done instead of in your head, which I've also done instead of on Post-its, which I've also done. So I know-how
Dawn Andrews [00:29:09] You just hit almost every person in the audience. With all of those. They're like, "Oh No, she sees me."
Nicole Marra [00:29:14] Five different notebooks, and notes on your phone. How about, you know everything? I've tried it all. I still feel like even though I love Trello, I still don't feel like I'm all the way there. I don't think I ever will be. I even got a waterproof notepad for my shower.
Dawn Andrews [00:29:34] That Is a baller move right there. I love that.
Nicole Marra [00:29:37] I don't know if it's just me, but I think people have the moments where ideas come to them and maybe it's on a run or a walk or in the shower. So what are you going to do with it if you got it in the shower, So yeah, there's
Dawn Andrews [00:29:53] In the show notes. In the show notes. I need that information.
Nicole Marra [00:29:57] I'm going to show you know, about the waterproof notebook and pen that can. So when you get that moment in the shower, you can write it down, and then it goes into Trello. But yeah. I think trying to keep track of all that and not sort of have your head explode.
Dawn Andrews [00:30:16] it's interesting. So I want to, first of all, I want to shout you out for getting an assistant. Almost immediately when you were getting the business started. And I have a very small not a very small, but a small sample size, because among the business owners and founders that I work with, men, when they are starting something, they'll hire up or figure out a way to hire or trade services with or they'll basically team up, staff up before there's even anything to do. Sometimes they'll bring huge resources to themselves very early on. And a lot of the female founders that I work with are being thoughtful, being frugal, and feel like nobody can do it better than me, or even if people can't do it better than me, I'm not really sure how to handle it. And they will delay and get themselves so buried in as you said in the weeds that they're starting something up from a deficit because they're already behind. They're chasing to make up promises if they've sold things that they're trying to deliver on. They're trying to come up with the systems and deliver on the systems at the same time. And I'm just I'm calling it out because Nicole did not do that. And her business has taken off like a rocket in its first year and a half, and I really attribute a lot of that. Nicole, to your patience, to your planning, like to being thoughtful and considered before you started it, basically building the house on paper and being thoughtful about what would work. And then as soon as you were ready to jump into action, get people around you to support you so that you could go and do the best parts of what you could do yourself. And I think that that has a lot to do with why the business has grown so quickly and become so. I think you're going to be a big leader in this space. I think Fixer Advisory is going to have a lot to say about the area that you cover and the industries that you the industries in the service that you provide to people and that I attribute to you being able to rally people to your side and being willing to accept it and to lead.
Nicole Marra [00:32:32] Thank you. I'm going to pause to not say a self-deprecating comment right now. What women often do when they're complimented. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm also it's so interesting to hear you put that spin on it, too, because I don't I didn't know that that that men would be are much more likely, you know, at least in your experience, to surround themselves with help. I think that women this kind of goes back to what we were talking about before women in addition to feeling like they have to ask permission and have to prove themselves in a way before they can be worthy as being bigger, as opposed to saying, hey, I'm going to do this and I'll show you, I can do it. I think women tend to not ask for help. Yeah. And I think in part and we could talk a little bit about what it's like to be a working mom and a mother running her own business. But, you know, when you're a mom and you're, you know, running a house and you're running your family and you're running your business, you kind of are just like, you know what? Bring it on, bring it on, bring it on. I can just you know, the expectation that you can just do it all on your own might not be fun or easy, but it sort of becomes the default. Yeah, and I definitely saw it as well. Now that you, you help me think about it in terms of a gender issue where some of the female founders of small businesses that I know that I've worked with, that I've gotten to know are you know, they're by themselves and I'm finding myself time. And you've got to get help. You've got to get help. And it's not because I'm a big spender or that I think I have or that I have any special resources, but that it's and if you can even do it on a small scale, a small investment, whether it's an assistant, whether it's even a friend who you do a weekly coffee with as a work session where it's like, let's sit down and dream and talk and strategize. Or it's a coach, you know, wherever you're at, there are resources that you can draw on.
Dawn Andrews [00:34:46] 100%.
Nicole Marra [00:34:47] It's about. It's about thinking that way. I just wrote an article for Fast Company about this topic, but it is lonely at the top. And it does apply certainly to CEOs. And I work with a lot of CEOs, but it also applies to being lonely at the start. And the help and support can come in so many different forms. And I think women do tend to be reluctant to ask for it. So that's something we need to change. Yes.
Dawn Andrews [00:35:17] Shout it out and I'll make sure that we highlight it because I just imagine what it would be like if you were thinking about it. When you talked about the female founders that you're working with, I have seen and I can request it invited, remind them, you know, ask for help. How can you resource this? Where can you get support? You know, what are some creative ways of solving this? I just imagine what this business landscape would look like, what the leadership landscape would look like if we flipped it on its head. And the first thing that you do is, okay, I've got this business idea. If I could paint a picture and put everything in place that would make this work well, what would that look like? Is it a sales team? Is it having a great assistant? Is it having distribution? Just instead of thinking, I need at least to start something, I need at least, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars or I need at least one customer. What would it be like if we went to at most first and built from there? I think it would change the process of building a business for women. I think it would change women's lives and families, not only because they would be spending their time differently and potentially a little. I'm not a fan of work-life balance as a phrase, but having a little more time for things that matter to them besides going all-in on a business ethic, expense, and sacrifice of other things that give them pleasure and joy. And I think it would change the trajectory of growth of female-owned businesses if women were willing to allow themselves to think of things at most instead of at least.
Nicole Marra [00:36:58] Absolutely. It's something that we have to really teach ourselves, remind ourselves, and learn to do practice because it's not something that comes naturally to us. And actually, I think that in my first year in business, I had incredible success and I'm so grateful for that. And I but I took on a lot as well. And in addition to the business and consulting work that I do with Mixer, I also opened a retail store and it was an incredibly have a left. It was a pop-up store in Soho and sort of the 50-yard line of luxury and retail in New York. And coming out of the pandemic, it felt like this incredible opportunity to be able to bring small, sustainable brands together with customers in real life and to create a space for people to connect and move. You know, in order in doing that, just my partner and I just drew on all of the resources that we could and, you know, pulled together so many helpers. And we stood up an incredible pop-up in a very short amount of time. And it looked beautiful and it looked so much better than, you know, you would ever imagine. And it was really because there were so many people helping us. But one of the things that I did during that time there that made that incredibly satisfying to me as I had an event called for Women called The Power of the Pack. And it was about the power that women bring when we get together and collaborate. And it was a moment where, of course, we got to shop, which many of us love, and drink and have some snacks and all of that and socialize. So all the fun stuff. But it was also paired with women sharing stories about being a mentor and being mentored and how what that felt like, what where the gaps were, and where the wins were. And, you know, that was one of the most incredible nights where I felt like it was a night for women to come together and really brag, support each other, be big, be vulnerable, and be in this space, physically and metaphorically, where we could sort of connecting in that way that I would love for women to be connecting on a more regular basis. And I'm still trying to think about how I can recreate that.
Dawn Andrews [00:39:42] I love that you built that you made that space for that whole conversation to happen, speaking of it, how are your mentors? Who's underneath your wings? Who's lifting you up?
Nicole Marra [00:39:56] I mean, there are, I would say, a number, a small group of really incredibly brilliant and open and vulnerable and hard-working women. I mean, I don't want to exclude the men in my life who have also been amazing supporters. And there are a couple of male executives, senior CEO level types that I have been able to rely on and have been incredible supporters of me over the years. But I do feel like my mentors and the ones who I can really be real with are other women who have either run their own businesses or are doing a sort of similar kinds of work to me and who are confident in themselves, and have been through the wars themselves and can, you know, can provide great constructive feedback. Help me when I'm down. Tell me when I'm off track, you know, and I like to say I can do it right back for them. You know, some of them I see mentor each other.
Dawn Andrews [00:41:07] How did you find and cultivate those relationships?
Nicole Marra [00:41:12] You know, they come in in all kinds of surprising ways. I think you can be very intentional about it. There's an organization, I don't know if it's outside of New York, but it's in New York. It's called Chief. And it's an organization that's sort of geared to women executives who are coming together to allow them to come together, to coach each other, to teach each other. So it's quite a formalized group that you can join. So that's one way I didn't actually join that group, but I know a lot of people who have who really enjoy that. I think working with a coach shout out to Don Andrews, I mean, you know, you're one of my mentors and, you know, I feel like you're someone who I can always go to, to, you know, sort through a problem too. To seek advice. You are a small business owner. You work with small business owners. You are what I just described. And one of my other mentors is the person who actually introduced us. And she's. She's an entertainment lawyer who I met probably 15 or 18 years ago on the opposite side of a deal. We were negotiating against each other. So you can find mentors in the most surprising places. We were actually opposing each other on a deal. And then we became we kind of recognized smart, good women. See, smart, good woman, and connected. Yeah, it's over. And it was the beginning of a very long and rewarding mentorship and friendship that, you know, has lasted all these years. And so I think that when you're open to the possibility of finding connections and resources all around you, you will find mentors in surprising places.
Dawn Andrews [00:43:04] I agree. And just to put some sort of bricks along the path. One of the things that I find you're very gifted at is building connections and relationships. And I say this, first of all, to compliment you. And secondly, for women listening to think about what your special sauce is. So one of the things that I found really inspiring in you as you started and continued to build this business is your willingness and ability to, like, grab a lunch, sit down, ask some questions, and get messy. You just have no hesitation about that. Not every woman starting a business is going to have that quality, but there will be other qualities, and that will be the fuel that starts to help you build into the next thing. So it's been really fun watching you, you know, flex your, your best muscles. Nicole To to build this business. I think that your listening skills, your advisory skills, and then your ability to reach out and connect with people and to bring people together is more of the source of what makes Fixer really special. And it's, you know, it's coming off of your back. You're the source of that. Thank you. You're welcome. So I'm curious, this is one of those like-girlfriend moments. But when you think about being a mom, when you think about running this organization, which requires building, finding new clients, servicing those clients, and running your team, what's the glue that's holding all that together? Like, how do you keep it going? For me, is love or hate? Jeff Bezos, my Amazon Prime membership, some Neutrogena face wipes, and a Revlon all-day lip color. These are the foundational elements, so I'm curious. You know, when you're trying to manage all of this stuff, how do you keep it going?
Nicole Marra [00:45:03] Hmm. I mean, I think there's there are so many pieces to that. I mean, when my kids were younger and I wasn't running my own business, but I was in a big, demanding corporate job having I always said that having the help with my kids, having enough child care, my kids are bigger now, so I don't need childcare. But having enough child care and home care to run your household so that you can go do other things is the foundation that I cannot live without that I have never been able to live without. That has enabled me to do everything that I've been able to do. So this is, you know, a deep and complicated issue. And I know it's been incredibly difficult over the last two years during the pandemic. And so much of the burden has fallen on moms and women to be able to maintain sort of their family, their house, their livelihood. And, you know, something's got to give. And so I don't discount that. And I definitely have felt that as well. But having sort of basic needs met, like child care, dog walking, a little bit of housekeeping, having those things met. And yes, Amazon, you know, being able to order FreshDirect is something that I use all the time. I'm on a constant quest for someone to help me cook healthy meals because if anyone's out there listening, yeah, I mean, I don't have time to cook, but I don't want to order out all the time and all that. So all of those challenges that sort of faze all of us on a daily basis are definitely what I would say. You've got to start with overcoming those. You had to start with putting help again. It goes back to finding help to put in place barter trade knowing it doesn't have to cost a ton. You know, be creative about how you can get that help. You know if you need help with working out, you know, offer to do whatever your service or product is and trade that for training sessions with a trainer. You know, I mean, there are endless ways that you can think of to kind of create these support systems in your life. But to me, it kind of goes back to the same thing that I talked about with business. It's having help. And I'm not the most organized. I'm not the most on top of things. I struggle with that. So the more I can have things put into place on a regular schedule, that really helps because then you, you know, you check it off your list, you've done it and you know that it's going to happen every Tuesday morning. You know, someone's showing up at a certain time. And, you know, what I'm talking about is people help for the most part. And one of the most critical parts of that, I want to be sure to mention is treating the people in your life that help you like people with respect and dignity and joy and gratitude. Because if you don't, you won't have those people in your life. And I've worked with some people who have helped me over the years in many different ways for years and years and years and years. And the reason that I've been able to do that, I think, is because of the sort of mutual care and respect that we treat each other with.
Dawn Andrews [00:48:33] Amen to that. We all get overwhelmed sometimes. How do you handle being overwhelmed? What's your ticket out of that?
Nicole Marra [00:49:04] I think carving out time for self-care. You know, I think it's it sounds kind of basic and I think it's what you often hear, but I think you often hear it because it's true. And so especially for women and moms, it's there's the guilt factor. Like, I'm not, you know, I don't deserve this, or I'm not entitled to this or there's always, and by the way, there's always going to be a million other things to do. But if you enjoy getting a manicure, or pedicure, if that mani-pedi is going to give you an hour and a half of just peace and downtime where you can feel pampered and good. Make sure that you build that and book an appointment for yourself to have that during your workday. If that's something that works for you, if it doesn't work to do it the after-hours, carve that time out for whether it's exercise, whether it's taking a walk, whether it's taking a nap, treating yourself to, you know, a coffee, a croissant, but taking care of yourself, it's just I have the way. When I feel overwhelmed and burnt out, I start, foraging in my mind, my calendar for where I can squeeze in something like a foot rub or a manicure or a massage. Or to me, I guess I'm sort of, you know, very much into that pampering kind of thing and that really. Oh, yeah. So if that's your thing, great. If it's not, that's okay too. But whatever that thing is, get in touch with it and get it in there. And when you start feeling that, you're just like. Irritable as fuck now to start finding an outlet immediately. And sometimes it's also just a conversation with a really close friend and just venting. I can. I can release that valve by getting on a call or having a coffee with a friend and just being like, I got to just dump all of this shit out right now. And then we dump all of our shit out and then we laugh and, you know. But that's another form of self-care.
Dawn Andrews [00:51:18] I love it. And I'm taking all of those pieces of advice. I've got some appointments to book now. I am curious when it comes to your leadership style, how would you describe it? And if there was one thing you could improve about it, what would that be?
Nicole Marra [00:51:42] I think my leadership style, I would say is. I don't know if this works, but casual and exacting at the same time, I think. But I really maybe those aren't the best words, but I really think that does sort of and helps me get there. And I think that you know, I like to be very informal. I like to be very personal. Personal with my team, knowing about their personal lives, sharing details about mine being friendly, having, you know, off-sites, you know, in the days that off-sites were a thing, but still coming back to like I have people over, you know, from my company, I would have my team come to my house twice a year to just hang and paint and socialize and, you know, relax in addition to kind of the regular sort of office sanctioned team kinds of things. So I do that and I like to spend time, whether it's virtually or in-person with my team connecting and talking about personal lives and being relaxed. But I also make it clear so it doesn't come as a surprise that I expect excellence and nothing less than excellence in the work that we do. And so when it's time to switch gears from being friends and enjoying our time together and connecting and laughing, the expectation is that we can all switch into our sort of professional modes and deliver. And I always say that it's, it's up to my team members that they're the ones that make it possible for me to be a more casual leader because they know and we talk about it, that, you know, when it's time to work, it's time to work. And so I try to be clear with my expectations. I think when you talk about, well, what can I work on? I think there are lots of things I can work on. But I do think that being clearer and more explicit with my expectations and needs is something I can work on. I try to do that with my team and but I find that there's always room for improvement. I mean, I tend to want people to live in my head, you know, quite unrealistic. But I think that a lot of us want that and leaders often want that without realizing it. So I will give myself credit for realizing it and be able to say, okay, well, this person couldn't have known that because they don't actually live inside my head, you know, and I have a joke with some of the people that I've worked with most closely over the years, that we share a brain and we do start sharing a brain. And this ranges from nannies to assistants to lawyers too, you know, various people that I've worked with super closely. And it's when we work really closely, that we start to have the same thoughts and the same ideas. And that's when I also know we're very much aligned. So, I think I'm a good leader because I can I have repeatedly done that brain sharing with people, so I must be doing something right in order to be able to do that. And I do think it's about sort of finding that right balance between being a warm, loving, nurturing friend and person and treating the other person with respect and dignity and valuing them as a person, and also putting in the time to train and explore what it is that I need, how where I see that they can improve. Giving positive, constructive, helpful feedback is important and, you know, having difficult conversations when you need to.
Dawn Andrews [00:55:32] Girl, if you ever teach that class on sharing a brain. Just put me in as your first student.
Nicole Marra [00:55:41] "How to share a brain"
Dawn Andrews [00:55:42] "How to share a brain with your team, your assistant"
Nicole Marra [00:55:47] Yes. It's really, it's a beautiful thing.
Dawn Andrews [00:55:52] Oh yeah. I've had the briefest of moments sometimes I was sharing that with somebody, but I would like it more consistently. I like it with my husband sometimes, you know.
Nicole Marra [00:56:01] You know, when we say our brain is when I was going to say my husband, I don't share a brain. But that's not fair because I think we actually do. And we've been married for almost 22 years. There are lots of times when we are not sharing it whatsoever. But, you know, when you play like heads up or those games, you know that like I guess the
Dawn Andrews [00:56:25] Like Pictionary or whatever Yeah.
Nicole Marra [00:56:26] The person thinking about when we play those games, we can often know what the other person is thinking.
Dawn Andrews [00:56:34] The slightest blink or a gesture or whatever.
Nicole Marra [00:56:37] And so then I know, I know we're sharing a brain. It happens.
Dawn Andrews [00:56:44] So in thinking about women with women in positions of leadership. And you've been both in a large corporate environment and now you've started your own small business. What do you think would give women greater access to leadership?
Nicole Marra [00:57:14] It kind of relates back to what we talked about before regarding formal opportunities like organizations like Chiefs or, you know, networking groups. And I know there are a lot of professional groups where, you know, women have the opportunity to work together and come together to talk about common challenges and things like that. But I think that to me, there really needs to be a shift in how we view ourselves. And the more we can talk about, the more we can talk about feeling entitled to be big, taking risks, not being, not apologizing for our strengths. That shift is what's going to enable so many more women to step into the leadership spotlight. I mean, I think that there are lots of institutional changes that can need to happen still and continue to happen. I think there are lots of structures for connecting with women and learning. You know, there are groups to help you learn certain skills and to really connect with other women who are in similar positions. But I think that the work has to start with each one of us from within. And that includes supporting other women. So everyone who is listening, who is a leader, who is in a position to be able to mentor and help empower and lead and gather women to help them find their space. I think it's incumbent on you to do that with whatever tiny fraction of spare time you have. But I, I think it has given me such incredible energy and rewards. So I think it's it's incumbent on women who have reached some level of success and have the power to be responsible for helping to bring others along in whatever way feels good for them. And I think each one of us needs to be able to start accessing that part of ourselves where, you know, whether it's your inner child or some other part, but it's like what part of you wants to be big, wants to shine, wants to be out there, wants to feel valued and recognized. I mean, those are all. Allowed. We're allowed to have those affairs and to want to achieve them. And so I think it's it's doing more having more conversations like this and more get-togethers like the one that I mentioned, which. Yes. Time to do another.
Dawn Andrews [00:59:42] Put it on the calendar and start those invites.
Nicole Marra [00:59:46] We have to do it more regularly. So that's on me. But really starting inside, I think it's in I think if it's in you if you're thinking about it and you're listening and you're mulling this over and this sounds like something you're interested in, then then you've got it, then do it. There isn't some special secret sauce that's out there. It's inside you. And I think it's about accessing that. And it doesn't take a shaman to do it, but.
Dawn Andrews [01:00:13] If that's your thing. Go for it. Do it. Well, yeah, it's the "if you can see it, you can be it" situation. You know, I think about women's suffrage. The only way that any of that was going to change is if somebody had a vision that women could vote. And from that vision and that courage, people started coming together, having the conversations, having like forming the protest, and doing what needed to be done to raise the visibility of the issue. But it is all the kernel of the beginning that is somebody having a vision of a different outcome. Yeah. And you talked about, you know, it's feeling like we are allowed to be big. We're allowed to be, you know, seen, we're allowed to accomplish, we're allowed to dream bigger. And I would like to change that word from allowed to require. I and it's a personal journey to get to from you know, I am allowed to I am required to but or it is required for me to have those things. But once you stand in that place.
Nicole Marra [01:01:16] Oh, oh, you're unstoppable. It's amazing. It really is amazing. I mean, I think back over the last few years and sort of where I've come and I'm far from being done, it's just the beginning, but it's incredible. I made it up. I made up this business from things that I knew well and decided I was going to make it happen and I made it happen. And wow, like I'm not different or special in any way that anyone else from anyone else like. But the difference was I decided to do it and I did it. But yeah, and that's hard and scary. But I think women can become leaders by doing that in their own spaces, in small ways every day. Take a small step, decide you want to change one small thing and show yourself that you can do it, and then take on the next thing.
Dawn Andrews [01:02:17] I think this goes back to your point about women asking for help, too, because one of the things that's challenging. I have had clients who could accomplish extraordinary things in business but actually had more challenges at home or in their personal lives or in their families. You know, with their extended family, they couldn't seem to get, you know, get some traction with being able to change how they showed up in those areas. And I say this because as you're interested in stepping into the lead, whatever that looks like, you can also be thoughtful about where you pick to start that process or to further that process. If what you're trying to do is lead better at home, but you're getting a lot of resistance there, there's another place in your life that might have an easier path. And as you develop those muscles, you start to flex and you start to see what you do well, what people appreciate you for, you can transfer those back into these other areas where you're getting less, less support, or less movement or less result. I know that I think about women who are involved in school communities with their kids, as you might actually have a great chance at leadership and growth in those areas, even more so than in your home life. People see you differently in different environments. So look for the environments that seem to be calling you forward and use those to develop your skills.
Nicole Marra [01:03:44] Yes, practice, practice doing it in an environment to your point, when you don't need to start with the hardest level, you need to start with the easiest. I mean, that's how people learn skills so that you are the most comfortable or that you see the most opportunity or you see the quickest win and, and get that under your belt, you know, and get that experience and see what it feels like and, and then start applying that to other situations.
Dawn Andrews [01:04:16] Yeah, I feel that's another particularly feminine trait, or maybe it's just one of mine and I like to think that everybody else struggles with it, but it has taken. Many years to finally learn to stop running at the hardest challenge first and trying to perfect that or conquer that and to start taking like, what's the thing? That's what has shifted is now it's what's the thing that's right in front of me? What's the literal next step? Not the biggest jump, the thing that will be the splashiest of the loudest. What's the literal thing right in front of me? And what can I do to affect that particular moment or piece of like area of growth? And so I don't know. I don't know if it is a particularly if it's a weird Don Andrews thing or if it's a particularly feminine thing. But I do find that sometimes women want to jump over a lot of steps and take on the biggest thing. And it's almost like a self-fulfilling or self-defeating loop because they're trying to land somewhere that they're not prepared to land yet, and then they're defeated. And it just reaffirms that we can't go anywhere. We can't do anything we're not entitled to. We're not good enough. We're not perfect enough. We don't have permission. So if you can start with just the next step and you know, I say that from watching you bravely do that, Nicole, and watching other clients bravely do that, like the progress that's made in these marquee moments of, Oh, now I'm having a conversation on a podcast, or this article just got published. It's an accumulation of these tiny, tiny steps along the way and building facility and confidence along with taking those steps.
Nicole Marra [01:05:51] It really is. And it's hard, too, because you don't necessarily see it at the moment. You can see it. We can talk about it here and, you know, having this moment, which is such a pleasure and looking back and saying, wow, there were a million different steps and years of work that led up to us being able to sit here and have this conversation. But when you're in it, it might just feel like, you know, oh, this is another thing, or do I really need to do this? Or I don't have time for this. You know, somebody else needs me to do something so I don't have time for it. I mean, that's another piece of it is like not putting yourself first or your needs for wanting to build something ahead of maybe someone else's needs at that moment. Because you're in the moment and you have to be making these judgments along the way every day. But you know, yeah, if you've got a recital or a doctor's appointment for your kid, you're going to go to that. But then, you know, do you really need to, I don't know, be at every hockey practice, every practice. Do you really need to? You know what? You don't. I have kids who are teenagers. And, you know, I've had a lot of conversations with them because I've battled with that guilt of feeling like, am I not around enough? You know, how has it been, was it hard for me not I couldn't do pick up at school. I could do drop off and do pickup, you know. But if you feel like you've got to do pickup every day, then chances are you're not going to be able to do something else, you know? Or maybe you do pick up, but then you trade-off with another mom every other day, and so on the days off, you take that time for yourself, you know, to work on whatever it is, putting in those small steps, having that brainstorming session with a friend, writing something, taking time to write, you know, I think it's it's being able to know that each step along the way is driving you forward. But I think what you need to do to start with is to create where you're going to have an idea about where you're going because otherwise, it's like really easy to not take steps to move forward. So setting goals, even if it's just for a month or a week, you know, or a year, you know, whatever it may be, wherever you are and wherever you feel comfortable setting a goal to say, okay, this is where I want to be or This is where I'm heading for. And then once you have that, you will be able to make choices in these small moments when there's a choice between going to the market or going to your desk or between, you know, going to a practice or going to a coffee date with someone and start creating those spaces. Because each one of those moments is what's building towards the sort of greater, greater accomplishment.
Dawn Andrews [01:08:55] Love it. Okay, random question. I think everybody can envision Times Square with all of its loud and sparkly, nice, and big billboards. So imagine you have the advertising rights for a billboard, the biggest sparkly billboard in Times Square. And you get to put a message up on that billboard that's specifically for women and about women who might be considering leadership or in leadership positions. Running a business. What would you want to put on that billboard? What message would you want to share and why?
Nicole Marra [01:09:34] I have something really short in mind and vulgar. That's the best kind. So I would say, fuck fear.
Dawn Andrews [01:09:50] Nice.
Nicole Marra [01:09:52] And I would put a little asterisk. So it was like a little more ladylike and I would put it on the billboard without that. But I fear, you know, like, enough. Enough of being afraid of everything. Afraid of being big. Afraid of failure. Afraid of, you know, taking risks. And I think that's a really, you know, afraid of, you know, putting yourself out there. That's a really basic concept that when you think about reaching a mass audience and being as broad and accessible as possible, I kind of feel like that message would really work for everyone. I mean, it's a very inclusive message, inclusive message. And I am really all about inclusivity and learning how to be more inclusive. So I think that coming from a place of fear cuts us off from seeing the possibilities in front of us. And maybe that would be the nicer, more elegant way of saying and on the billboard.
Dawn Andrews [01:10:59] I like how short and succinct it is. It really gets right to it. Well, thank you so much for this conversation today. I feel I feel enriched. I feel that I have taken an I've reminded myself to ask for help upon your urging. I've learned so much from our conversation. Thank you for spending the time with me today, Nicole.
Nicole Marra [01:11:24] Thank you for having me. This was amazing.
Dawn Andrews [01:11:27] And thank you for being my good woman.
Nicole Marra [01:11:30] My pleasure.
Dawn Andrews [01:11:34] Thank you for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and all the links mentioned in today's episode, visit mygoodwoman.com. Before you go, make sure you follow or subscribe to the podcast so you can receive fresh episodes when they drop. And if you're enjoying My Good Woman, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts reviews are one of the major ways that Apple ranks its podcasts. So even though it only takes a few seconds, it really does make a difference. This episode was produced by me, Brian Marcus, and Kathlena Shaughnessy. Thank you again for joining me, Dawnn Andrews, in this episode of My Good Woman. I'll see you next time.