067 | Command the Room: Female Leadership Secrets Unlocked with Samara Bay

What if your voice could become your most powerful leadership tool?

In this episode, Samara Bay—Author of Permission to Speak and Coach to Hollywood stars and badass CEOs—hands you the keys to turn your voice into a superpower. We’re diving into how to silence that inner critic who just loves to tell you you're not enough, so you can step up to the mic, command respect, and shatter outdated stereotypes. 

Samara breaks down how embracing your quirks, your “ums” and “uhs,” and everything that makes you human is the secret to connecting deeply, inspiring loyalty, and creating a world where authentic female leadership thrives.

If you’re ready to speak with heart, own every room, and change the game for good, grab your earbuds, because this episode is for you.

In this episode, you’ll learn …

• How to command any room by turning your unique voice into your power.
• How to transform self-doubt into confidence to lead with ease.
• How to ditch outdated stereotypes and redefine authority on your terms.
• How to show up with heart and authority to make your message stick.
• How to build loyalty and trust by creating meaningful connections.

This episode at a glance:

[7:30] - Samara’s transition from Hollywood dialect coach to voice empowerment leader.

[20:22] - How Samara guides female leaders to command a room with authenticity.

[29:40] - Tools and strategies for using voice to influence, even in virtual settings.

[51:00] - Samara’s insights from attending the DNC and witnessing voices of power in action.

[1:05:10] - Advice for female founders on showing up powerfully and authentically in business.

Resources and Links mentioned in this episode

• Permission To Speak
• How To Show Up (Weekly Substack)
• Samara Bay 
• Free Range Thinking
• Book a consultation call 

You might also like

• 5 Myths that Stop Women from Starting Businesses
• 8 Strategies for Niche-Bound Businesses

Want to increase revenue and impact? Listen to “My Good Woman” for insights on business strategy and female leadership to scale your business. Each episode offers advice on effective communication, team building, and management. Learn to master routines and systems to boost productivity and prevent burnout. Our delegation tips and business consulting will advance your executive leadership skills and presence.

Transcript

My Good Woman
Ep. 67 |  Command the Room: Female Leadership Secrets Unlocked with Samara Bay

Dawn Andrews: Hey, hey, hey my good woman? Before election day Samara Bay and I sat down with such optimism, hoping for a new chapter in American history, led by a woman at the helm. The outcome wasn't what we'd hoped for. But it's clearer than ever that our voices and the voices of women everywhere are powerful beyond measure. This episode is for every female founder and leader determined to take up space, own her story, and actively create the future country that we would like to be living in. As you listen, remember your voice matters and each of us has a real active role to play in shaping what comes next. 

Welcome to the My Good Woman podcast where we help female founders break past plateaus and get to the next level of business growth by refining their strategy building systems and streamlining operations. 

I'm Dawn Andrews, the founder and CEO of free range thinking business strategy consulting. Join me each week for candid conversations, with culture, shifting glass ceiling busting trailblazing women who are leading impactful enterprises and grab their strategies to help your business reach extraordinary levels of growth. 

Hello, my gorgeous founders. I'm so excited for you to meet the lovely Samara Bay. She is the woman who is changing how we all think about power, one voice at a time. A sought after communication coach, speaker, and author of Permission to Speak, Samara helps women step up to the mic, literally and metaphorically, with confidence and authenticity. 

Whether she's coaching Hollywood actors , political leaders or powerhouse CEOs, Samara knows how to turn that inner critic into your biggest fan, and in this episode we're diving deep into how your voice isn't just something you use to give orders, it is your secret weapon for commanding a room, owning your leadership, and shattering glass ceilings. And spoiler alert, sounding like one of the guys isn't the answer. If you're ready to unlock the power of your voice, hang in and let Samara show you how it's done. 

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Welcome to She's That Founder slash My Good Woman. In fact, I'm gonna give you both of those introductions. Welcome to My Good Woman, so glad to have you. 

Samara Bay: Thank you, thank you, my pleasure. 

Dawn Andrews: And welcome to She's That Founder. It's so good to have you. 

Samara Bay: Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here and happy rebrand. 

Dawn Andrews: So, just to reorient you back into this world, while you were away here's what happened on the show the show's called My Good Woman, except that now it's not, now it's called She's That Founder. We are in the middle of a rebrand, 68 episodes in, and we're changing it up to make it a little clearer, a little more pointed. It's always been for female founders, but now we're just really running straight at it with the most simple, clear language available that wasn't already trademarked. So that's what's happening

Samara Bay: Oh, I love this . I love this though. I mean, congratulations and rebrands are no joke so

Dawn Andrews: Yes, How you doing? Did you have a lovely hike?

Samara Bay: I did! My kid was off from school today and only his school did this. We don't really, it's a pupil free day. My kid thought that meant like a holiday called a pupil free day and we were like, no, that's what your school calls it when they just pick a random day. Anyway, so we went to Fryman Canyon but then it was like 90 degrees midday by the time we properly did it. So, fine.

Dawn Andrews: So I was rereading through some passages in your book prior to our conversation and, some of the things I was like, check, check, check, you know, the part that I was getting at was near the end when you're talking about , people, either having nervousness around using their voice or feeling like they're not enough to use their voice and then you got to the patriarchy part I was like, oh, yeah, that was in my presentation. 

That's what I did this week. So I was resonating with our shared message and also with our shared drive, like, my, desire is for women to have 51 percent of all leadership positions in the world, anywhere, everywhere, at all levels, that's what I want and I'm totally Veruca salting it, I want it now. And it just changes at the pace that it changes, and at the that people decide to take it on. So, 

Samara Bay: It's such an interesting challenge, right? Like, in what ways do we allow the universe, as they say, to unfold? Uh, and at what pace do we go? That's actually not fast enough, and we intervene. And if we're going to intervene how do we do it in a way that's, like, not burnout. How do we create the conditions for a sustainable growth of our ideas of our mission and of our own life and ambitions and capacity.

I had this background as a dialect coach in Hollywood. I like to joke that that means I have told a lot of movie stars what to do with their tongues. It is also accurate, although it is not the whole story. But what a weird niche, position to end up in. And the reality is it meant a lot of quiet sessions with seemingly wildly successful people who, as soon as we got to have a safe space to talk about their voice, their relationship to their voice, it turned out there was a lot there and a lot of insecurity and a lot of, you know, mess. What a beautiful mess. 

And the movie star in question the summer of 18 happened to be Gal Gadot. And I got to spend a summer with her in Washington, D. C. across the country from my family, my husband and little kid. And, it was wonderful, but there was actually, the, the filming that happened in Washington D. C. before they went off and did the rest of the movie in the U. K. was outdoor, mostly flying sequences, a lot of stunt work, and so anybody who has any Hollywood experience , you may be putting two and two together, there's like no sounds that come out. 

In fact, there's often not even a microphone attached to an actor when they're doing that level of like, in a harness. Correct, correct. So I really had nothing to do. And that was also the summer that we were two years into our former president's term.  And a lot of us were doing a lot of activism. We're trying to just like throw our bodies at, you know, protests here and there, writing postcards . 

And then all of a sudden that summer we started seeing those pictures of the kids that were getting separated from their parents of the border and just inundated, inundated, inundated. And I was suddenly terrified that my activist friends were going to burn out. And here we had this midterm coming, this first chance to really change the narrative in our country.

And like, did we have it in us? And so I set all that up because when I had downtime, I wasn't just frolicking. I was really like kind of a dark place. And then I got this call. From moveon.org, a friend had suggested me and move on as one of these awesome organizations that finds first time candidates for office and offers them resources either in money or training.

And here they had all these women who were running for office for the very first time, what ended up becoming the blue wave, but we didn't know that summer, we didn't know if the blue wave was going to crest 

Dawn Andrews: Yes. 

Samara Bay: And, you know, moveon.org had decided that there was a serious public speaking challenge that many of these women were absolutely brilliant, but we're not translating their brilliance to the micro and what I pop in pro bono and do this. And you know, of course I said yes. And the not of course is that it completely changed my life. And I've done very little set work since then. And I had this aha working with those women about what it is that gets in the way when we're trying to translate our brilliance at scale. 

And what it felt like no one was really saying. And so I got it together to pitch this sort of fresh take on public speaking to I heart radio for a podcast. And they said, yes. And then I pitched it to penguin random house and they said, yes. And now I am in this completely different space as you know, a quote unquote thought leader in this fresh take on public speaking, which by the way, we are seeing play out in beautiful, beautiful ways.

Dawn Andrews: Yes. Well, and you, to call in your book a little bit, the book is Permission to Speak, which is fantastic and a fun read, by the way. 

Samara Bay: Oh, what a delightful thing to say. Thank you. Thank you. 

Dawn Andrews: I mean, especially, you know, as a woman who's on a microphone and stands up in front of people speaking, all of those things are true. Like all the swirlies happen every time. And they're, you know, over time I've developed ways to manage them, but even stepping up to a book that says permission to speak. One would like to think, what am I talking about? Of course, of course I have permission to speak. And every single woman I know, no matter how seasoned they are, still has that, but, but do I? Like everybody has that moment and you address it in the later, later chapters of your book very directly, but I don't want to give it away. So people can go check that out.

Samara Bay: Oh my god, what a tease! 

Dawn Andrews: I'm going to tease you. 

Samara Bay: You know, I will say that's why I referenced the working with movie stars, because I thought working with movie stars, working with people who are running for US Congress, right, working at this point with a lot of CEOs of billion dollar companies , I just want to normalize that some of the quiet voices inside our heads that we think we should have gotten over by now is part of the problem. 

Dawn Andrews: Yep. So what I want to ask you, you shared the female candidates and that some of their brilliance wasn't translating and you refer to it in the book as the fuck it, I'm in moment. The origin story that isn't the, like the plane crashed on the tarmac story. What was your fuck it, I'm in moment? Was it that call from move on? That really made the difference? 

Samara Bay: The call from moveon was, what they would call in Hollywood, the instigating incident. I think that led to the scenario in which, but no, I think it was the accumulation of working with these women over that summer. And in fact, I put it in the book as a single moment with a candidate named Emily, who I just saw at the DMC. 

And I was like, hey, and she, I mean, we've been, we've connected a few times, it's been whatever, six years now, and she has, uh, remained in politics, she won, she's remained in politics, and now she's ascending from a state seat to a national seat. But you know, it wasn't just her, it was the accumulation, but there was this moment, and I believe it happened with her, where I was like, 

Here's a little context, in that same summer, I had seen this, um, and I talk about this in chapter eight, this Venn diagram. It's just two circles. One side says, what breaks your heart the most about the world? Pretty massive of a question to ask oneself. 

Dawn Andrews: I drew that circle, there would be tears on it.

Samara Bay: Right? It's gotten messy over the years. And then the other side says where where your skill set lies. Right? The overlap, obviously, is, is what we should be doing with our life. And this concept I know is ancient, right? This is related to Ikigai. It shows up in a lot of cultures.

And but for me, there was something very specific about this idea of what breaks your heart the most about the world, because I did see this that same summer of 2018. I remember thinking like, Oh, good luck. Like, how would I even begin to unearth the most with a capital M? Right? What would that be? 

Honestly, Dawn, this was the moment. This was my fuck it I'm in moment. And then I thought, what breaks my heart the most about the world and how your work and my work overlap is that too often the wrong people are in charge .

And why? Of course we can all put on our intellectual glasses and talk about the patriarchy and white supremacy, right? I'm happy to do that, frankly, happy to do that. However, I think it hits at a body level , which is, For me, from my skill set, you know, weird little side perspective here, too often the wrong people are in charge because they sound the part.

Ones who don't have those inner voices, who ascended partly because of, you know, what we, lovingly call the confidence of mediocre white man, right? What is that? And I didn't feel like anyone was really unpacking that. And in fact, in many empowering women's circles, what we get instead is count your ums and uhs, get rid of them.

They're making you sound dumb. Don't use the word like, don't go up at the ends of your sentences. Right, anything that a linguist would call a feminine marker, excise that. So here we are, with these two completely different truths. One, that we don't want the old white male stereotype to be in charge anymore. And two, but let's sound like them. 

Dawn Andrews: Well, and then the game changes, too, because then, if you're a woman interested in sharing your message, your game becomes cut out the ums and uhs and likes. Like, you've completely left your body, and you're not actually delivering your message anymore. You're just trying to make sure that you're masculine, conversation is intact. Drives me crazy!

Samara Bay: And that's the thing, and that was really my aha, and I thought, you know, like there's a beauty standard. But because the voice is invisible, we don't know how to see it, and we don't know how to talk about it. And so we keep upholding the worldview we don't want to live in. And so here I am, and what I'm going to do is call bullshit. And that's truly what led to the podcast and the book and everything, you know? 

Dawn Andrews: Yes. Love it! Okay, well let's start talking about that. Because what I want to do, okay, you guys I know that we're getting into the politics of things. I mean it you can't not and just as a quick disclaimer. I am a liberal. I'm voting for Kamala, and I am always 100 percent open to a thoughtful compassionate interesting debate always.

Like, I want to know how you think and feel about things that differs from the way that I think and feel about things. I want to know and I want to understand where you're coming from. So if that makes you want to listen more, do that. If it makes you want to listen less, do that. But just know that I'm an open space for those kinds of conversations when they are respectful, thoughtful, and move us all forward. Okay. Disclaimer over. 

So now let's move on to talking a little bit about some of the tools and things that are in the book because this podcast is here to help female founders and female CEOs be able to be even more powerful and effective in their communication. And especially when I think about women holding 51 percent of the world's leadership positions. We need that to be in politics, certainly, but also in finance, in the world of legal, like things that shape policy, move the way that we work in culture. 

And you've brought this to the world of entertainment, which shifts the way that we see ourselves and see each other. So now if we can help women that are in these business areas that can also move, all the better. Like this whole movement starts to speed up a little bit. So, how can women in leadership shift how they use their voices to command a room, but still stay authentic? Like picking up a little bit on what you were talking about before, what's the way in?

Samara Bay: So, and I have been doing this now for a few years as a consultant in much more corporate spaces, not just in entertainment, right, and not just in politics, but really, you know, for better and for worse, this is applicable in pretty much every space. 

And then, you know, those of you listening, obviously, especially those of you who are founders of small businesses where you are the one setting the cultural tone, right, then we also get to acknowledge the rooms that we're going in where we have not been the ones to set the cultural tone and what adjustments need to get made or are on the table to get made and what we've done in the past to try to accumulate a little bit of power or be unintimidating enough to not, you know, inspire ire. 

And then we begin to realize like, okay, so this is actually very, very dependent on the environment. The very first workshop that I ran on this topic before the podcast when I was still trying to figure it all out was called how to use your voice to get what you want and you know it felt a little bro marketing frankly it was sort of a send up of that because what I was curious about was do we know what we want? 

This is historically always challenged for women, right? But do we know what we want out of any given day? Because if we're about to pitch something for a hell of a lot of money to a room full of film the blanket could be really different at the end of that sentence, right? But let's say, a bunch of VC investors who, don't historically give to women and they've said yes to you, but you really have to show them that you've got moles. Okay, well, what do you want at the end of that day? 

Is it more important to you? And no shame in either one of the setups I'm just about to give you, but is it more important to you to get that money from that, funder and show them, you know, F you, I'm going to take your money, I'm going to run with it, I'm going to make something, whether it's exactly as I described it to you or not, you know, you're going to be part of the solution, get that money at all costs. 

Or are you looking for like our serious values aligned partner? And what you want to feel at the end of the day is in total integrity with yourself. And seriously, no shame either way, because we've all gone through phases or moments where we want one or the other. Sometimes I put it, sometimes we want the thing, and sometimes we want the feeling. And wouldn't it be delightful if we could get both? 

And the answer is, of course, yes, sometimes, right? I don't want to create a binary scenario. But if they feel like they're at odds, we can either get the thing or we can get the feeling. Then it's really hard to not self recriminate. So I like to just lovingly set that up. But we, we might speak differently in that pitch. Based on what we want.

Dawn Andrews: Yes. 

Samara Bay: And my dream, of course, is that we can get the thing we want and the feeling at the same time, and that we can even undo some of that sense of a binary that, you know, we might have to pick and choose, and that no matter who's on the other side, and this isn't always the case, so this is just a dream. 

But my dream is that no matter who's on the other side, we can, in this fake pitch scenario that I've just created for us, speak about what we care about, in a way that that care spreads, which by the way is also, I think, sort of pitching, right?

But the reality is that pitching and public speaking in general has such a long multi thousand year history, not just of what those people in charge tend to sound like, which I lovingly call the old sound of power, but also it comes laden with this sense of fear, fear, fear, fear. I hope I don't fuck up.

Like that the goal at the end of the day, also with, media training, the goal at the end of the day is how do I not fuck up, which on some level hits this like evolutionary thing of how do I not get kicked out of the tribe and killed all alone in exile? And the joke that seinfeld says, we all, like, know this joke intrinsically, which is that we would rather be in the coffin than giving the eulogy, haha, because it taps into this cultural story we all know, the conventional wisdom that all of this is supposed to be so terrifying it's worse than death. 

Dawn Andrews: Yeah. 

Samara Bay: So what I'm offering over here, is like, what if pitching and public speaking was love based? Well, what would that even feel like? What choices would we make through that lens ? What would our body do? What kind of a setup would we prepare ourself for? How would we think about our audience even if we worry that they might be hostile? 

How would we love on them so hard with like a Care Bear stairs worth of kindness and rainbows. What would we do? What would we do if our goal was just to show up as loving as possible, to love on our material, to love on our mission, to love on our legacy we want to leave behind, to love on our audience and what our potential shared purpose might be, and I gotta tell you, every speech that has gone viral lately, that any of us, I imagine, has made go viral, because we felt a physical urge to share it, is that. 

Dawn Andrews: What would be an example of one that's popped up recently that really strikes you that way, where somebody is just coming from the on the audience, love on the topic, love on everybody? 

Samara Bay: I'll tell you, because we're recording this at the end of September, I think, this is the subtle, but very obvious, shift in the way that Kamala Harris has been presenting herself in public. And somehow, you know, for many, many, many of us and her probably included on some like nervous system level when the stakes are higher, when we can feel it ratchet up, we can become like risk management machines where we just shave off all of our weird, all of our humanity and just try to get through. And as I say, not fuck up. 

Dawn Andrews: Yeah. 

Samara Bay: And the alternative is what she has done, right? The alternative, if that first option I just offered is sort of the, I have something to prove. We all know this version of ourselves , right? It's linguists would call it in an evaluative space. So right, either literally like a, will you give me money or a, will you give me a promotion space or in an emotional where we just can't read the room and we feel like they're judging us and sizing us up and haven't decided yet whether or not to take us seriously.  

Dawn Andrews: We've sort of retreated into ourselves at that point. 

Samara Bay: And we become the most boring version of ourself because, you know, it's, well , for obvious reasons. And the alternative is the other version of us. So who is she? Right? Which version of us comes out around our favorite people, around whom we have nothing to prove, and I don't even just mean when we're like, you know, drunk and letting off steam.

I mean when we're just like connecting with a friend, or we have a ridiculous, like, you'll never guess who I ran into at Trader Joe's, I haven't seen them since before the pandemic, and here's what happened . That version of us . We have not shaved off our weird, right? We have nothing to prove, and we are just showing the hell up. 

She's so instructive, that version of us. And it feels to me like Kamala's doing more of that. Not necessarily what I just did with all, with all the like, you know, sort of animated messy, but the love based approach, you know, when people are asking about some tough subject racism, she could say, you know, my opponent is an asshole or some nicer version of that. Instead, she says, this idea of dividing us is just so hard, we just don't want that. Like leaning into love, as a rhetorical and strategic choice. But also one that I think is sort of good for the soul. 

Dawn Andrews: For sure. I think, it's the marriage of what you were talking about, especially in this moment. Now, if we were in a different moment in time with a different set of circumstances, maybe she would be leaning more towards, I need the money, give me the thing, I'm, you know, I'm gonna bond it up.

Samara Bay: Which in a way we may have seen in 2016. I mean, I don't, it's not a direct one to one, but you know, I think we're all experiencing what it is for the second time around for a woman to be the top of the ticket and to have learned for the first time. 

Dawn Andrews: Well, okay. So back to our CEOs, what do you think are some, I'm thinking about, imposter syndrome, because when you're leading a business, especially if you're a first time founder, you've never done any of it before. Everything that you're doing as you grow a business, we were talking about kids in the, in our, green room chit chat earlier, like everything is a new step.

And every time there's a new step, that's asking more of you or to be a bigger version of yourself or a new version of yourself. Those doubts are going to show up. They just do. And in how we respond to them is part of what makes people a little more at ease or a little more successful as founders. But is there something about mastering vocal empowerment that can help address the imposter syndrome, is there a correlation that you've seen in your work with helping people with their voice and their communication and being able to address or reduce or eliminate imposter syndrome? 

Samara Bay: This is such a huge question and I feel like, my impulse is to be like, let's have a group discussion with all of your listeners. I mean, I'm saying that on purpose for those of you listening, because don't expect me to come in on, on high and be like, let me solve this profound cultural issues going on in your brain, right?

I bet that feels irresponsible, frankly . Um, but I do want to say, I think we have all felt, and it might be interesting to think back for each of us of moments when this is the case. We've all felt what it is like to say, I don't know, in a way that feels powerless and to say, I don't know in a way that feels powerful.

Dawn Andrews: What do you think the distinction is, Samara? Is it merely your internal approach to that moment and belief about yourself? Is it about the delivery?

Samara Bay: I, think so. I think the delivery is the end result of that internal shift. I think, you know, for all of us, all of us here, part of the secret, and we know this is advisors, right? But when we don't know when we're at a new moment, we might have that impulse that society has told us to have of like muscle through pretend pretend. You know, seem competent when you have legit questions because no one wants to hear you have questions, you'll seem weak.

And then you know and part of the reason you're here listening in on this right is and then you begin collecting your, people who are allies, peers or advisors, mentors, even mentees, right? Sometimes we learn from our mentees, either because they're teaching us something new or because we discover through teaching them that we know more than we think we do.

And continually linking back in to those folks who love us, around whom we have nothing to prove, hopefully, we get to discover the version of us that says, I don't know that comes from a place of power because what we're saying is I have a diagnosed a blind spot. How delightful, how useful. Right? 

We know that that there's an element of curiosity that can take us out of powerless and into powerful, ooh, I found a new one. And of course, I don't mean to be like an idiot . Of course, it's also laden with like, if I mess it up, money's on the line, reputation is on the line, brand is, you know, I'm not saying that that's not there, but I am saying that when we have our people, we get to practice the version of ourselves that goes, Ooh, I don't know this yet. 

Which, let's be honest, none of us know anything. I don't want to be ridiculous , there isn't over certainty. We can, sometimes think we have as though the world is predictable and we know over and over and over and over that it is not. So we can get more comfortable in those spaces practicing saying, I don't know, and bring that version of us who is confident in what we do know. Despite what I just said, ridiculously a second ago, confident in our hard earned wisdom and in the value of what we are bringing to the market. 

Dawn Andrews: Yeah. Well, and, owning the capacity to figure it out or find a way. 

Samara Bay: 100%. 100%. And so much of that comes from staying in this, powerful versus powerless, staying in this powerful mode. And I think part of my work that overlaps with this conversation is what does power actually mean to us? There's all these studies that say that women don't feel comfortable using the word power.

Maybe we'll sub it in for the word influence instead. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? On some level, just semantics. Use whatever word feels good, right? This is my theater training in the background. It's like, it's like, if a word makes your body come alive, use it. Great. 

But in another way, you know, I think it is useful to go, is our, yours, mine, definition of words like power and strength, accidentally masculine coded because of the stories we've received. And is there some shift we can make in what archetype we're holding on to so that when we say those words, we think of a version of power or strength we would actually admire. We would actually want to embody. 

Dawn Andrews: Who's your version? Do you have a version?

Samara Bay: Ah, I collect them all time 

Dawn Andrews: Yeah, who's in the stable? 

Samara Bay: One that comes to mind, is Esther Perel. If anybody doesn't know who she is, she's, pretty famous . You probably know who she is, those of you listening. But, you know, she, writes, speaks, does work around eroticism. But the subject matter is not even the point, although I it's relevant because it's the kind of subject matter that could be relegated to discomfort or to lady things. And instead she keeps it very front and center as a completely legit, subject, which she should. 

But also English is her second language. She's on the older end. She's a woman. There's all kinds of reasons why she could present a sort of apologetic version of herself and the topic I think fits into that is that she doesn't and there's a mischief. There's a twinkle behind the eyes. There's a, you know, we're going to be real. She also has so many years of experience as a psychiatrist, actually working with clients as a therapist. 

That like she, you know, talk about that sort of felt sense of knowing. It's like, here's what tends to come up. I find that I can do that now too. I couldn't do that when I first made this pivot, right? I had like five clients under my belt in this new realm that isn't about accent, but is about these larger things. And I'd be like, maybe this is relevant for you. 

I don't know. I discovered this once, but like, if it's not, then fine, maybe it'll be relevant for your friend. So much of a disclaimer up top, which of course, for any of us, you know, any listening who may resonate with that. It comes from such a well intentioned place, right? 

It's like, we don't want to be non consensual, telling people how they're thinking. But the more I've coached people at this point a thousands with the workshops and everything. I noticed, I'm much more comfortable saying this is what tends to come up when we think about this. It's a lovely confidence. So anyway, she's a, she's an example for sure, for sure. 

Dawn Andrews: I love it I just want to give people some, uh, some touch points to be able to turn this from a single dot into a diamond if you will. 

Samara Bay: Well, and also this, let me turn this back into a, tip or trick for those of you listening, begin to collect these for yourself. I call them examples of the new sound of power. Which is inevitably varied, right? If the old sound was all about the single standard, the new sound is inevitably lots of ways. 

Dawn Andrews: Oh, Amy Poehler is on my list 

Samara Bay: Amy Poehler. I mean, obviously so many people in politics, in the arts, in activism, in music. I'm just going to throw out there, Taylor swift. 

Dawn Andrews: Yes for sure.

Samara Bay: The idea that somebody could show up with their words, their tone of their voice, their body language, their style in public, and sound perhaps perky, perhaps playful, perhaps silly, perhaps sweary, perhaps informal, perhaps soft spoken, gentle, loving, humanist, and still be authoritative. Is the type of undoing of the old stories that I think we are ripe for, you know, one of my, and this is another example that first came to me and was part of the early thought process and what I was really doing here. 

I saw this old Ted talk with Jane Goodall, who, of course, spent time with the apes and is a PhD, right? She's a doctor but she doesn't show up like one, or she doesn't show up like the stereotype of somebody who has to say, I'm the expert, so take me seriously. And I grew up in a household with a dad who's an astrophysicist. So I'm actually very familiar with what scientists do to maintain their credibility.

A word that is a big deal for the science community. And I thought, wow, Jane Goodall is putting no energy into maintaining her credibility. And yet here she is with a real earned sense or power. And it really began to undo for me what these, hard, I don't know, controlling kind of energies we have around stuff. Like you have to count your um's and uh's. 

Dawn Andrews: What have you noticed with the clients that you've worked with in this more activist or political space now in the, I guess more traditional leadership roles as opposed to creatives? In working with them on their voice and their communication, does the process of their thinking and the ownership that they take of their voice just naturally change over time?

Are you working on the outside and then it changes the inside? Or are you working on the inside and it changes the outside? Or yes, both? How does the process unfold? 

And the things that I'm making comparisons to are, I'm training for a marathon right now, and there's obviously the very external necessities that are happening in order to be able to show up, but it is 100 percent a mental game to run that long.

I've already done one before, so I'm familiar with how a person goes through so many iterations of themselves over the course of the time that you're on that run. So how does it look when you're working with a client? Like what have you noticed so far with the volume of people that you've worked with? 

Samara Bay: So much inside out. For example, I just used that little, aside of counting your ums. I say that because it's one of those easy indicators of if you're in a space that doesn't really get what we're doing here, that's just trying to kind of match the standard, match the standard, do what you can, chase it, chase it, chase that standard. You've got it. You're close. You're close. You're close enough, which is in a difficult environment for any of us to discover our joy inside of public speaking and present our love and care in a way that makes it spread. Just saying. 

So as an alternative, just inside of that tiny example of counting your ums and uhs, I have found, I believe, and I have read enough linguistic studies around ums and uhs, that when we do the inner work, to believe we deserve to take up time and space, to actually believe, not just to tell ourself, but to actually believe we deserve to take up time and space, that our ideas are exactly right, that the parts we don't know we get to not know with a whole lot of love and care. We inevitably say um and uh less.

And by the way, ums and uhs, we also get to not demonize. Because Barack Obama still says uh. And of the things that linguists offer, just in case anybody here listening does have a little bit of like a, but let's be honest, I still need to cut out my ums and uhs, or likes, you know, whatever, the sort of hedging terms. One of the things that linguists say that I just think is so helpful and lovely is that the way our brains work is that those sounds come out when what's really happening is we're giving ourselves a second to go inside and collect our next thought. 

Fragments of our thought exactly to process what we just said and what we want to say next and the coolest part the part I'm sharing this because of, is that when we say Uh or Um, what we're doing is what I just said what our listener hears is something's about to come. They don't hear an um or an uh. What our listeners hear is - Ooh, bullet point. She's about to say a new bullet point. 

Dawn Andrews: Lean in, here comes the next nugget. Okay, for those of you listening, like, that honestly might be the price of admission right there. 

Samara Bay: Well, let me go even deeper just for 10 seconds . For any of us who are like, AI is taking over everything interesting. They cannot make AI voices sound human. Why? Because A. I. cuts out the ums and uhs. So maybe our ums and uhs are what make us human.

Dawn Andrews: I was just thinking the program that we use to edit the podcast. There is an AI, there's the button that says remove filler words. I think there's, 50 filler words, and if you press it, it just scrapes them all out of the conversation. And if you don't take the time to listen back to the conversation, it can get real weird real fast . 

Samara Bay: You know, I did a lot of my own edits back in that, iHeartRadio podcast days because the pandemic hit right when I was, you know, uh, so I was home at like 2 a. m. paper editing and I would cut some of my ums and uhs, and in retrospect, I regret that. But it was my, and I say this, you know, modeling being completely honest, it was my very first time quote unquote going public. It was in 2020. 2019 into 2020.

Dawn Andrews: It's an identity transition going on there. 

Samara Bay: Completely and I hear it in my voice when I listen back. I actually don't listen back because it makes me cringe in a way that I listen back to a lot of my own stuff because there's like, you know, useful stuff and I want to normalize listening back to our own voice. But I don't listen back to that partly because I think I over edited.

Dawn Andrews: Yeah, you, lost the humanity in it, in a way that you aren't happy with. 

Samara Bay: Yeah. Well, and it's just not, it's not, it's like me in risk management mode, right? Like, no shame, truly, no shame, but I know what I was doing, when you know better, do better.

Dawn Andrews: Totally okay, so one more business question, then we'll button it off with we'll get back into the politics. For you guys behind the scenes, Samara and I were scheduled to record and she took off to go to the DNC. So I got to unpack that with you just for a minute, because watching from home, so uplifting and inspiring.

Okay, but I digress. I am curious, from the work that you're doing as well, because so much of work and leadership and power and influence is actually virtual these days, is there anything that you notice or suggest or help people to understand or approach differently because of that medium as opposed to people being in the room and being able to see all your body language and feel your energetic presence and everything else that goes with being live with someone? How do you support leaders with the virtual version of themselves. 

Samara Bay: Yeah, I will answer that by actually talking about what I do for me, because I've been running a lot of virtual stuff. And then, of course, I apply it to my clients as well. I'll offer a few things. 

One is, you know, in the virtual space, people want exactly what they want in the real space. So as much as we can kind of get creative, and I do, I'm using that word deliberately, right? What could I do? At the opening of my thing to make it feel more human. So I always ask, you know, is it webinar style where I'm not going to see faces? That makes it harder, right? Or is there any way, can we switch it into the gallery view version where I actually can see faces, even if some people are offline, right?

That gives me a little sense of, organic feedback. The kind of thing that might happen in a room. I also, encourage chat if they're going to disengage the chat feature. I request that we re engage it because I say even if I can't, pick up on everything people are saying while I'm like, say, presenting, I like the idea that people can share with each other and I offer language at the top, right?

If something really resonates, if we were in a room together, you might find yourself going, huh, how do we create a, huh, energy online? Well, it's the chat function. It's imperfect, but it's a thing. So if you wanted to write in there, me too, or I hear that, that feels right. Or, whoa, that's so different than my experience . Then you're offering a space for other people to say the same or to say the opposite and to really like, you know, begin something that feels like community in that little chat function. Connected to that I offer two other, what I call pop up rules. It comes from, Priya parker, the Art of Gathering. 

Dawn Andrews: Yeah, I love Priya Parker. 

Samara Bay: And part of what she suggests with this mischievous idea of pop up rules is that they are rules that just pop up for the container we have created for this random zoom on one random day, you know, whatever, whatever, and they end. And then you know, I offer this to all of you listening, What would you do to both make people feel welcome and know what kind of a space it is? It's like the equivalent of telling people in advance, um, business casual 

Like it's a way of just saying this is the norms of this space. Um, and then also , tell people how you want them to behave in this space. So, I would like you to use the chat, right? It's different than, I don't know, whatever, the organizers decide. Right? Like, of course, that's fine. But you are abdicating some element of leadership. 

Dawn Andrews: Yes. Well, and you're also leaving your people hanging. They would like to know how to behave as well.

Samara Bay: That's right. No one likes a chill host. Being a chill host. Oh, whatever. Oh my god. I'm just all about freedom. Like, let people do what they want but in reality, a chill host

Dawn Andrews: So what I want to do is just turn my camera off and hit bye, bye. Because nobody, I mean Zoom is great. I'm glad that we had that opportunity and that it's an option, but I don't think it, given the option of being in community or being at home in your office by yourself, shouting into a microphone, people would rather be like shouting in somebody's face with a cocktail, so

Samara Bay: Yes. so the pop up rules is my sort of mischievous offer, right? I actually have three and I share them every time and I sometimes think about cutting it and then I don't. It's like my little, it's my dare to myself. 

Number one is chat is encouraged. In real life, I'd say your sounds are encouraged, right? Talk, laugh, whisper to your neighbor, ask a question, you know, whatever. Sounds are encouraged. Chat is encouraged. 

Number two. Bring mischief in. And I unpack the word mischief and that it has an element of rule breaking and which rules don't actually apply to us and have become outdated. 

And then number three, justice is the goal. And I have now used this in all kinds of spaces where it feels a bit terrifying to say that. And it has worked every time. And then I say something like, if these three rules resonate for you, write a Y, like a yes, in the chat. Or nod your head or put your hand on your heart, right? Just like sort of experimenting with what it would be to properly facilitate, not just to give a speech over zoom or to run a meeting or to whatever pitch, but to facilitate meaning that, you take on leadership.

Dawn Andrews: To embody that, people bothered to show up, or you've requested that they be present for it.

Samara Bay: And then what would I do? And you know, I like to think about this in terms of what is the type of leadership I want to see more of in the world and how do I be it? So if I want to see more leadership that's playful, that's more direct, here's the kind of way we're going to use this space, but also loving.

How do I work on embodying that? And the other thing I'll say to your bigger question about how we do public speaking through the internet, is really the same as I would say for being on a real stage or in a real room, but I want to offer this because I think most of us need the little love shove. 

What do you do in the few minutes before? What kind of a warm up do you do to show up? And so for me, this is a body thing, right? Literally, loosening up my spine. I like to remind myself and everyone I know that we have a lot of body wisdom. It's up to us whether we bring it in or not. 

There's a breath element and a, you know, maybe trilling your lips, but I just don't want you to think this is like a theater person thing. The other parts that I think are essential to a warm up, and a warm up can happen in two minutes flat, is A, noticing any stories in your head that are not going to help, this is where we might notice the, I'm always bad at this this is not going to go well, or is that a voice in my head that's trying to keep me safe? Bless, bless, thank you, thank you for trying to keep me safe, I'm on to bigger things. 

And then the other part, it's just the sort of four parts, and there's the body, and there's the breath, and then there's the stories in our head. The final part, and if you have time for absolutely nothing else. I offer this, and it comes straight from psychology. There is this idea of priming ourself for power. 

In this case, I mean the type of power, right, that sort of codes for agency. What we choose to think about in the final moments, before we press play, before we go on, before we walk on, matters . MRI scans will show that, you know, a different chemical response is triggered by our thoughts, and it's too easy for us to unintentionally think about the worst case scenario.

Rather than to intentionally, here's the really good one for priming ourself for power, collect in advance so you have one at the ready, a moment when someone you admire really admired you back. Maybe it was just a text. Maybe it was a hug. Maybe it was an email. Maybe you just heard it through the grapevine.

But some moment where you felt like your contribution really fucking mattered . Relive that memory in with your body. So that your body is allowed to re feel, damn, I'm such a badass. And then that version of you is invited into the next space.

Dawn Andrews: Love it. I love it. 

Samara Bay: It's also one of those things that's like, that's a revolution. That is, it's like, you take those two minutes for yourself or not, right? There's a whole lot of talk in this era about self care. I offer the two minutes to have, to make your body and your spirit and your voice and your mind step into that room the way you want. Profound self care for the long term, for the legacy you want to leave behind. 

Dawn Andrews: Love it. Thank you for that. Okay. We've got a few more minutes. Two more things I want to do. Love to unpack your DNC experience. through the lens of what you do, and I, you've shared a little bit of this in your socials and stuff too, so people can find you and, see some of the things that you shared afterwards, but through the lens of what you do, what were some of the things that you noticed? I can't remember which, night you were there. Were you there the Kerry Washington pink night?

Samara Bay: Hell yeah, I was there all but the first night, when I hadn't flown in yet. So, I got them all. 

Dawn Andrews: Okay. so I can, I can join you in this conversation if we talk about the, the Kerry washington pink night, which I think was night three. 

Samara Bay: Um, yeah, I'm gonna say two things, me processing the experience . One was, I was in real tears, a lot of the nights, like a lot of, a lot of, a lot of the nights. One reason was just the feeling of the moment we're in, the enormity of it and the group experience of it. But the other was, and I'm admitting this, even though it feels a bit silly, but I'm admitting it vulnerably to those of you listening, because I really felt like it was my book in action.

Without knowing it, I wrote the playbook for this moment and we're seeing it. We're seeing it work and we're seeing it move people. It's a huge thing for me and obviously a quite personal experience. But the other thing I wanted to say is, I didn't know the logistics of the DNC or the RNC knew that, the way to go to conventions is to be a delegate and I wasn't totally sure it was on the other side of that, or right. Volunteers got a free ticket . Uh, union members, people who the White House or the administration just generally want to thank. 

Dawn Andrews: Affiliated in some way, yes.

Samara Bay: Do good. Exactly. So, you know, the day that Kamala became the head of the ticket, I totally looked this up. I was how do people go to the DMC ? And one of the things that really struck me once I was actually there with a one of the things that really struck me once I was actually there with a credential, thanks to a friend of a friend, you know, it was that kind of a situation. I was like, ah, this is not ticketed. Meaning no one can buy their way in for a reason. 

We really are the community. We are the people. We are, of course, a lot of Chicagoans, but also just a lot of people who have decided that, being a part of the democratic experience, not even just the Democratic Party, but the democracy experience matters.

And then once we're there, we actually have a job. Which is like, not just for the TV screens, but sort of for the TV screens. We have a job, which is that anytime someone says anything that matters to us, we better be as loud as possible and care as much as possible, as visually as possible. Which also, by the way, pat of my book. So, I was like, oh my god, whenever they say california, like, it's actually my job to scream for 

Dawn Andrews: To be California. To be however many millions of people are in this state. Like, you are the representation of that.

Samara Bay:  And And then they would say, especially not Kamala, you know, who had this down, but all the people in advance of her on the previous night, when they would try chanting, creating a, do you know how terrifying it is to start a chant? What if no one joins?  

No, so of course some people tried , the some version of when we fight, we win. I see what you're doing . Okay, fine. People already know that one, but some people started other ones. I'm going to join it. I'm going to give permission to the other people around me to do right. So there was this really delightful sense of the actual audience responsibility.

Dawn Andrews: That is excellent. I always talk about, I was just at a, at a women's retreat this past weekend, it's called Campowerment and unfortunately they are no longer, they did their finale and it was fantastic. But one of the conversations that we had in the earlier stages , was being here with your whole self. And that's what you, it sounds like you're describing is that, it was your voice and your whole self that was showing up to be the representative of your, of the country, of the democratic process of the state of California.

Samara Bay: Completely, you know, people would say things that would feel meaningful, like we could obviously everyone there has the, uhm, permission to silently sit there stone face thinking on the inside. Yes, I agree. But it isn't really the social contract. And that was the part I thought was just fascinating.

Dawn Andrews: Yeah. Well, And, there are I mean, other than maybe sports, there really aren't that many moments to engage in that way. And unfortunately, there aren't that many moments to engage in the democratic process that way.

Samara Bay: Yeah, it's real. And it connects back to what we were talking about with Zoom, right? I mean, there's just such magic being in a real space and we all learn that, if we didn't know it during the pandemic. 

Dawn Andrews: For sure. 

Samara Bay: And now what do we do when we're in real space is to really take advantage of that, right? The whole idea of organic feedback. That's what we were doing. They were like, Oh, I have feelings. I should hear them as loudly and caring as possible. 

But like, for the most part, many of us were just seated where we were able to get a seat. And I, you know, one of the days I was, um, there was an empty seat between me and an older woman named Nancy. Which happens to also be my mother's name and Nancy was from Chicago and she had been driving around a VIP whose name she did not share and I did not ask because I'm so classy.

But she was a volunteer what she got was like a credential to sit there that night because she had driven around this VIP and I did ask her I'll tell you for all of you who are now like what does that mean? I will say that I was like who is considered a VIP here because obviously like Presidents, former presidents, congressmen, they have their own detail. 

There's nothing about Nancy driving them around. She's like, that's correct . It's literally for the people who just want to be important enough. And so they assigned them a local to drive them around. Anyway, so Nancy and I became besties. Because, you know, we're sharing a moment, and why not? I calculated, well, my friend on the other side isn't getting here for a while. And Nancy and I are sharing a moment. I might as well get her name. I might as well learn a little about her, you know.

Dawn Andrews: Yes.

Samara Bay: Nancy and me. Forever friends.

Dawn Andrews: All the things. Go Nancy. Okay, so many good, juicy nuggets from the conversation today. Um, I will not be hitting my remove all filler words. Taking that off the editing table. And I want to shout out to Gemma, my podcast producer, who at various points has been like, please stop pressing that button.

Samara Bay: Oh wow. 

Dawn Andrews: Sometimes I'll pull the recordings in and I'll, you know, do some of the like, initial, fast edits just right in the moment and she's like, just stop pressing that button. You can do what you want, but don't press that one and I'm like, okay. 

Here's my question for you, Samara. Imagine yourself in the middle of Times Square. You're surrounded by all of the gorgeous sparkly billboards get the biggest one for yourself to share a message with female founders. What do you want to put on the billboard? 

Samara Bay: How we show up as human as possible, as loving as possible, as weird as possible, will change the story. 

Dawn Andrews: Thank you.

Samara Bay: It's my dream, you know, that we will imagine a sound of power in our own image.

Dawn Andrews: I have nothing more to say. And I do have to say something. Which is, how do people find you? Where can they get more of all that you're sharing and offering?

Samara Bay: I'm going to offer three things. I'm feeling the impulse for three things. One, obviously, you know, the book is the foundation for a lot of my thoughts and, uh, it came out over a year ago and I'm happy to say I really stand by it. I'm rereading it through, uh, using, I'm, I'm running a book club right now.

And, um, oh my gosh, it's such a weird experience to go back to my own words, it's available everywhere. Um, and I've been told that the audio, which is my own voice, is perhaps the preferred method. 

Um, two, I do a weekly sub stack and it has been a real opportunity to, of course, talk about things like unpacking the DNC, but also my thoughts on self promotion, my thoughts on a lot of things that didn't make it into the book.

Cause I have just evolved my thoughts. We hope that we continue to grow. And the third thing is if you want to work with me or connect with me for any reason, if you're a Instagram person, feel free. Uh, it's just my name's Samara Bay, but also LinkedIn is great. And I work with leaders whose current speaking style means missed opportunity after missed opportunity. And we're not doing that anymore.

Dawn Andrews: Perfect. So, everybody, I will put it in the show notes so you can find all of these connection points with Samara. Thank you so much for your time today. It was a uplifting and inspiring and I wish I had somewhere that I was going out to speak right this second because I feel like I'm in the before moment, like ready to go. I have no idea what the after moment would look like and, but I know I'd be coming in hot. So 

Samara Bay: Dawn, you're such a gift and thank you for the community you've created here. I really appreciate you. 

Dawn Andrews: I appreciate you back. Oh, so good..

And that's a wrap on today's episode my fabulous female leaders. I hope you're just as excited as I am about what's coming next with she's that founder. The journey we've been on together has been incredible. And I know the next phase is going to take things to a whole new level. Remember this break is just a pause, not a goodbye while we gear up for she's that founder don't forget to join the mailing list at  dawnandrews.com/mailing list forward slash. So you'll be the first to know when we're back. 

You'll get all the exclusive sneak peeks bonuses and behind the scenes magic along the way. Thank you so much for being with me on this journey and trust me when I say. She's that founder will be worth the wait until then keep building, keep leading, keep the momentum going. And I'll see you on the other side, ready to conquer those next level challenges together. See you soon.