ChewintheCud Podcast
The Team, based in the South West of England, explore their passion for cows and the dairy industry as they talk about a range of industry related topics.
For more information about our podcast visit www.chewinthecud.com/podcast or follow us on Instagram @chewinthecudpodcast. ChewintheCud Ltd is also on Facebook & LinkedIn. You can also email us at podcast@chewinthecud.com
ChewintheCud Podcast
The GB Calf Strategy: Past Progress, Future Vision
Discover how the GB Calf Strategy is transforming British farming by creating purposeful connections between dairy and beef sectors. Join AHDB experts Sarah Tomlinson, Laura Awdry, and Harriet Bunning as they reveal the remarkable progress already made and outline an ambitious five-year vision built on three foundational pillars: Right Calf, Right Start, and Right Route.
The podcast takes you on a journey from the strategy's origins in 2006 following the ban on live calf exports to today's world-leading adoption of sexed semen (88% in Holstein breeds) that's dramatically reduced unwanted dairy bull calves. You'll learn how the UK's unique calving patterns create both challenges and opportunities compared to other dairy-producing nations.
Delve into fascinating discussions about genetic selection that balances calving ease with beef quality, challenging the assumption that small-stature dairy cows can't produce good beef calves. The experts share evidence-based approaches to professionalizing calf rearing while addressing TB-related movement restrictions that have historically complicated the dairy-beef supply chain.
At its heart, this strategy represents a mindset shift—recognizing that dairy farmers are beef farmers too, with approximately 37% of UK prime beef originating from dairy herds. Rather than imposing burdens, the GB Calf Strategy creates frameworks that reward good decisions throughout the supply chain, benefiting animal welfare, environmental sustainability, and farm profitability.
Whether you're a dairy farmer, beef producer, or somewhere in the supply chain, this episode offers practical insights into creating value through better breeding decisions, optimal calf care, and improved data sharing. Take action today by putting sire information on passports and join the movement toward a more integrated, sustainable British farming future.
For more information about our podcast visit www.chewinthecud.com/podcast or follow us on Instagram @chewinthecudpodcast. ChewintheCud Ltd is also on Facebook & LinkedIn. You can email us directly at podcast@chewinthecud.com
This is the Chewing the Cut podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry, brought to you from the southwest of England and listen to Around the World. Hello and welcome to Tune In Code Podcast.
Sarah Bolt:My name is.
Andrew Jones:Andrew Jones, and with me today is Sarah Bolt.
Sarah Bolt:How are you doing, sarah? I'm good. Thank you, andrew. How are you today?
Andrew Jones:A little bit tired, if I'm honest.
Sarah Bolt:Why, as was one of our guests who you're just about to listen to. Go on, tell the listeners why Well.
Andrew Jones:I've got to give a shout out, to be honest with you. I was at the Cream Awards last night and I know one of our guests was as well, and so I've got to say a big shout out to Lely Atlantic, who invited me along and paid for my dinner and room for the night. So thank you very much to them. But yeah, no, really good, really interesting, the Cream Awards. I mean I also should shout out some of our previous guests and soon to be guests. Paul Morris from Oxitec was there and they oxytech won an award.
Andrew Jones:Um, uh, rachel hayton, who we've already had on but will be on again shortly, um, her and james yetman were there for the cow recovery and they won an award. Um, and synergy vets in total uh won an award. Um, who else? Oh, dillington, so locally, dillington won an award as well. I forget which. It was sustainability, because I think uh, was it? Uh, stowell farms locally were, I think were the commended, so runner up on that one. I think it was, don't quote me please but yeah, no, interesting and lovely to see some people locally um doing well and winning some awards fantastic, fantastic, but a little, a little tired yeah, yeah, yeah, just just, I think it's about four hours sleep, um, um, well past my bedtime, uh.
Andrew Jones:And then, to be honest, I woke up, my usual sort of time, of sort of five half five, so I just got up and got on. But it was interesting, the time I left I think most people were still in bed, to be honest, but I'd rather got home and get on. But thinking of awards, I guess it's congratulations to yourself. I mean, I see, was it a finalist for the? Is it Southwest Pharma? Inspirational Women in Dairy.
Sarah Bolt:Women in Agriculture. Yeah, so yes, really I don't know what to say. Actually, I'm really excited that I've been nominated and that I have made it to the finals. So we're not going to know until November, so I've got a long time to be excited to find out the results.
Andrew Jones:Well, that's probably the worst bit about it, isn't it? By the time you get there, it's like, oh well, but anyway. But yes, no, congratulations for being a finalist. It's a good achievement and well worth yourself, because you're definitely an inspiration to lots of people in this industry. I know that for sure. So, so, yeah, really, let's talk about today's podcast. As you listen to this, we're coming to the end of GB Calf Week and our guests first time with three. So it didn't go quite as chaotically as I was expecting, given we're all remotely and it usually there's a little bit more talking over each other when it's remote.
Sarah Bolt:Yes, three inspirational women.
Andrew Jones:Yes, definitely, definitely. You could say I was very well outnumbered on this particular podcast, but, but yes, no, so we've had GB Carve Week. We are talking about the GB Carve Strategy for the next five years and I think it's a really interesting conversation the way the industry. We talk about the history, to start with, how it's progressed from where it started, where it is now and where it's looking to go over the next five years yeah, it's a really interesting discussion, sort of talking about, uh, about that strategy going forward and and how they want to engage the industry.
Andrew Jones:Yeah, um, to take, you know, to drive it all forward and it's all for the betterment of the whole as an industry as a whole, not just the beef industry, but dairy industry as well, or beef and dairy industry. Obviously that a lot of that is the dairy beef, um. But yeah, so let's go listen and um hear us discuss the gb car strategy. This podcast has been brought to you today by tune the cud limited, who offer completely independent dairy and beef nutrition, our signals, signals, advice and training, along with ROMS mobility scoring. For more details on these and other services available, please visit our website, wwwtunethecudcom, or email us directly on nutrition at tunethecudcom. Tune the Cud Ltd now offers first aid training from a registered first aid at work trainer and experienced minor injuries practitioner. For more details, please visit our website, wwwtunethecudcom, or email us directly on training at tunethecudcom. Hello, I'm Andrew Jones and I'm Sarah Bolt, and welcome to the Tune the Cud podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry.
Sarah Bolt:Farmer, advisor, processor and everyone else. We have topics and episodes that will interest you.
Andrew Jones:We discuss the practical and the technical aspects of different UK dairy industry topics.
Sarah Bolt:We aim to make you think about what you're doing and ask yourself can it be done differently?
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Sarah Bolt:Subscribe and listen to episodes for free on your favourite podcast platform. Sign up to our website, wwwchewingthecudcom, for podcast notifications, so you never miss an episode, and links to our socials, including instagram. Chewing the cud podcast. All one word and remember no g or email us direct on podcast at chewingthecudcom if you like what we do, please share and leave us a review to show your support. And that's it. Enjoy today's episode.
Andrew Jones:Hello and welcome back to Tunicud podcast. This week we're going to talk about GB calf strategy. As this podcast comes out, it will be the end of GB calf week, but we're here today with three guests to talk about the GB calf strategy for the next. I believe it's five years, so with us I'll start with is Sarah Tomlinson, who we've obviously had on before talking about TB, which was incredibly well received. She is lead veterinary science expert for AHDB. We also have Laura Audrey, who is senior knowledge exchange manager dairy for AHDB, but also has done her Nuffields in sustainable dairy beef production, which I'm sure will add to the conversation. And also Harriet Bunning, who is lead animal genetics expert beef, again with AHDB. So welcome to you all.
Laura Awdry:Good morning.
Sarah Tomlinson:Thank you for having us.
Andrew Jones:Well, fingers crossed, I say. I just wonder if this will be chaos with us all remotely, but I'm sure it will be fine. I've never had three guests with us before and obviously, like usual Sarah's on the podcast, they're hiding away in the corner.
Sarah Bolt:Lurking in the background.
Andrew Jones:Lurking in the background. That's good. That's good. So, like usual, if we start. I know you've been on before, Sarah, but do you just want to give us a little bit of brief about yourself and how you got to where?
Sarah Tomlinson:you are today. Yeah, so I started off as very much as a vet in practice, in farm practice. That led to probably quite an unhealthy interest in bovine TB, as you all heard about on a previous podcast. And I joined AHDB nearly 18 months ago now, primarily because I wanted to remind myself that I do know about more than just TB. Hence, you know, one of the first projects I've been involved in is getting the next phase of the GB calf strategy off the ground because it is such an important topic.
Andrew Jones:Important topic. So, Laura, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to be where you are today, Because obviously you're not from these part of the worlds originally.
Laura Awdry:Yes, as you can tell, I do have a slight antipode in twang. Not fresh off the boat though, I came over from New Zealand. It would have been 2008 now, so a very long time ago. My background pre-AHDB I've been in farming and calf rearing, so sort of started off as a contract calf rearer. And outside of AHDB, my husband and I both farm a partnership down here in Cornwall where we also run a calf rowing business, working directly with dairy farmers.
Laura Awdry:But for the last three and a half years I've been working at AHDB Dairy, so I obviously cover the counties of Devon and Cornwall working directly with dairy farmers, sort of managing discussion groups and, as you also alluded to, have just finished my Nuffield Farming Scholarship, which was looking into sustainable dairy beef production and I guess, being a beef farmer myself but also working in the dairy sector, it's quite a passion of mine, I suppose, and you can have a foot in both camps and hopefully you know, understand and represent the sort of the needs and the, I guess, the wants from the dairy sector. But as you're actually a beef farmer as well, you understand how that translates into real life.
Andrew Jones:Yeah, exactly exactly as you say. I've been, as you say, having a foot in both camps. I know myself. I've been some beef meetings in the past and the beef guys brought up things I'd never even thought about as a as a dairy farmer at all and you just think, oh, it's a calf, it's fine, but it's completely different. But anyway, moving on, harriet, would you like to tell us a little about yourself and where you are today?
Harriet Bunning:yeah, yeah, thanks. So I guess I start with. I love cows but my background is really in science. So, although my family have a small herd of beef suckler cows down in the southwest, I actually went to study biology and genetics at university, did a PhD up at the University of Edinburgh in breeding cattle for smallholders in sub-Saharan Africa. So I did that for a few years and got to travel a bit, which was very nice, but realised that actually the world of academia and science is all a bit much.
Harriet Bunning:And I joined AHDB a couple of years ago and really enjoy these days working in that gap between scientists and farmers, actually making sure that the research that's done is useful for real people on real farms. So I look after and manage all of our beef genetics work at AHDB, particularly our national beef evaluations. And it's interesting for me because I don't know so much about the dairy industry but I do know that actually the breeding decisions that dairy farmers are making these days has a huge impact on our beef because so much of our beef now originates from the dairy herd. So yeah, it's been really interesting to be more involved in the GB calf strategy.
Andrew Jones:Yeah, no, it will be interesting. I'm just saying, as we're saying this, I mean this kind of ties back a little bit to the run. We started talking about breeding calves, feeding calves, etc. Etc. When we spoke to helen and stewart rogers uh, back in july, it would have been and the fact that they're using genomics to only breed was it something like the top 20, the youngsters, or top 20 and everything else then was going to beef and so, um, that really ties in, I think, with some of the stuff you're saying, harry. But I mean, really, I guess who wants to start? Um, who wants to tell us a little bit about what the GB cast strategy has been in the past, what it's going to in future? Where's? Where's it going basically? Or, or, yeah, give us a bit of background about it shall I start?
Sarah Tomlinson:yeah, go on everyone, everyone's being a bit hesitant.
Sarah Tomlinson:So it goes right right back to 2006. So when live calf exports were banned, so there was this dairy bull calf cohort that had no trade, basically. So RSPCA Compassion in World Farming brought together this calf export forum and they said we need a solution to this. So that then resulted in sort of lots of discussion, I suppose, but no tangible outcomes. I suppose there was a report published in 2013, which was called the Modern Solution to the Exports of exports of calves, working in black and white, so very focused on dairy bull calves.
Sarah Tomlinson:Um and and again there was a lot of people talking about it. But it all came to a head around 2018 where there was um public sort of expose, I guess, if you like, where there was a headline in the guardian dairy's's dirty secret and we were called out for routine euthanasia of these dairy bull calves. So that was when AHDB and FU and industry got together and started to own that and actually said what can we do about it? And that was where the original GB calf strategy and it was called the dairy bull calf strategy at the time GB calf strategy and it was called the dairy bull calf strategy at the time came about and we have seen really significant shifts in actually changing in behavior and you mentioned the use of sexed dairy semen and that has been actually fundamental to reducing the number of dairy bull calves that are born and increasing the amount of dairy of beef semen that are now going into the dairy herds.
Sarah Bolt:I think we're one of the highest users, aren't we, of sex semen across the world exactly when I work with kind of international collaborators.
Harriet Bunning:We're talking about, like genetics and dairy beef.
Andrew Jones:Um it, yeah, we're experiencing something ahead of the rest of the world just because our, our british farmers, have been so good at taking up sex even I do see a few headlines these days from like the us and that when I'm on social media, sort of sort of starting to push that dairy beef thing, as you say. We we seem to have already, um, taken that leap forward with and I maybe I hadn't realized myself that we are that far ahead maybe of some of the other countries in terms of doing this, other than maybe some of the prep I've done for this. But yeah, no, that's quite interesting.
Laura Awdry:Yeah, I think within the whole stone breed now we're sort of up to 88% usage of sex semen and, as you said, andrew, when you're traveling especially, I've gotten to do that over the last sort of 12, 18 months. When you come out with those figures, other dairy producing nations are quite shocked. And I think one thing that's probably worth identifying too is I think the UK has been incredibly good at the adoption of, I guess, technology, things like wearable sensors, so heat detection has become incredibly advanced, and I think that's given farmers probably also more confidence in the product. So that was definitely something that I took away from my travels, comparing to other countries too.
Sarah Bolt:And I guess that shows a real success of those sort of earlier years of that calf strategy. I guess we stopped Sarah mid-tracks on the history, so I guess it's let's pass back to Sarah and continue that journey.
Sarah Tomlinson:So, yeah, in AHDb and if you bought industry together. What are our key goals and aspirations? And you know, the vision was, as it is still now rear all calves with care, and I suppose one tangible goal was to reduce, eliminate that routine euthanasia of dairy bull calves on farm. Well, which?
Andrew Jones:sorry one. There's certainly one milk contract now doesn't allow you does it. You've got to keep them on farm till I can't remember what period of time it is, but you, you have to. There's no chance of you doing that as part of your milk contract yeah, and and and some of the red tractor standards now um encourage.
Sarah Tomlinson:Well, that was fundamental to the use of sex semen was encouraging responsible breeding. So having a read, written breeding and management policy in place and that the natural step was to then use sex dairy semen so you weren't getting the dairy bull calves. Um, then working groups came together and, close to my own heart, one of the biggest barriers to getting those calves out of those beef calves off dairy farms is bovine TB led, which brought together in a really small number APHA, defra, integrated supply chains, farmers, vets into a room to say, right, what are the barriers and what could the solutions be? And we've actually seen some really clear changes in TB policy to help support improved welfare at a farm level, rearing calves with care, because we've made it easier to get calves off farm and into isolation units and AFUs, for example. And I think that's been massive to get government policy changed through, all of industry working together.
Andrew Jones:I mean I don't want to get stuck on TB, but I think what I'm going to say is related to this. I mean, I got involved with a conversation with someone on LinkedIn, a sustainability manager for somewhere Milk's Pie, and he was going oh, people are still rearing too many dairy heifers. So you could flip side to say, well, if they would produce less dairy heifers, you'd have more beef, which ties into what we're doing there. But again, as I said to him, the problem is tb.
Andrew Jones:People rear more dairy heifers than maybe they need because they're always afraid that there's going to be that sudden shutdown or they've lost 10 animals. They're not expecting and they need those replacements coming through. So tb has a big effect on what we're doing, talking about today just in terms of well, we could probably have more beef animals if we didn't have the TB issue that we currently do, and if I tie this back to other ones, like we've done with Butylar in the past and the integrated systems, they ultimately said what matters to them is they need a dairy farmer, because without the dairy farmer, there isn't a dairy beef. Without the dairy farmer, there isn't a dairy beef and without the dairy beef, there is not the whole integrated system, the industry that has sprung up around the integrated beef, whether it's Game Changer or Butylar or whoever it happens to be.
Sarah Tomlinson:Absolutely, and one of the key focuses for the next phase is still TB and how do we improve on what we've already achieved and and carrying on that working group, because you're right, um, the the farm's ability to be financially and environmentally sustainable is impacted by tb, whether that's calf rearing. Um, how many heifers you put sex even yeah definitely, definitely so.
Andrew Jones:So we've talked about the past. What? What's? What's the future, then? We're talking about the past. What's the future? Then? We're talking about the next five years. Is it 2025 to 2030?
Sarah Tomlinson:Yes, we decided that it was originally going to be three years, but we thought actually, within three years you can set some things in place, but you don't necessarily see change or measurable change, and so some of the things that we're talking about are very much continuing what was started in the previous three years, like how do we integrate the supply chain to ensure that farmers are rewarded for making those beef semen decisions?
Sarah Tomlinson:At that level we had some really key stakeholders in the room. We did some bigger industry workshops. So when I first joined AHDB, one of my first outings was to there were over 80 farmers, vets, supply chain, everybody in the room talking about what is important for the next phase phase and absolutely the sustainability goals and the financial reward were key things, as well as still protecting and being able to promote the reputation of the dairy industry through good calf welfare. So we came up with right calf. You've got to get the genetics right, right start. We've still got to be better at calf rearing and right root, which is that whole tb supply chain, getting information from the processors right back down to that beginning decision so we can start to reward people for some of those decisions so those three things you've just mentioned about, is it right, right, calf, right start.
Andrew Jones:What was the?
Sarah Tomlinson:right, right root right root.
Andrew Jones:Sorry, they are now being referred to as the three pillars of the strategy. Is that correct? Yes so, um, I feel like sarah would like one of the other two to contribute here.
Laura Awdry:I think Harriet, being the genetics expert, is definitely going to cover, I think, the right calf. That is definitely her.
Andrew Jones:Well, I mean, as you're there, laura, we've touched on it briefly your Nuffield how do we compare to other countries? Then, when it comes to the dairy beef, I know we touched on it briefly, but you've obviously traveled the world for your Nuffield what are you seeing in other parts of the world?
Laura Awdry:It's really interesting. We have to realize that we're quite different than a lot of dairy producing nations in sort of the rest of the world. The UK is kind of makeup. I suppose We've only just got over 7,000 dairy farmers left in the UK now Huge amounts of consolidation. So we are. We are losing, sadly, some of those family farms and we are seeing larger herds and larger units and in terms of that calving pattern split too, that's also quite quite unique.
Laura Awdry:I guess we've got probably around 35 percent of what we would call all year round calving herds. These are, you know, farms that carve 12 months of the year calf, you know. We've then got probably about 45% of the industry which I guess what we would call them, maybe an undefined pattern. They might be all year round but they might take a break maybe over the summer, you know, to fit around lifestyle or busy periods. And then we've also got a proportion of block calving which is probably only about 20% of the industry. And when we think of those other really large dairy producing nations, you've got New Zealand. It's pretty much, you know, 95% spring calving, 5% autumn very much the same as Ireland. And then when you look at big powerhouses like America, you know they're pretty much all year round calving because you know you need to produce milk all the time. So each country has very different challenges. You know those spring calving nations, you're getting all your calves at one time of the year. You've got a huge seasonal sort of amount of milk, huge seasonal amount of calves. Therefore you're kind of just front loading any non-replacement calf issue at one time of the year. So I think in our context in the UK we actually we probably do have a little bit of a of a, I guess, an advantage for the fact that we do have a real diverse sort of, I guess, carving pattern. But with that also then comes the challenges because it is, you know, we do still see a peak in the spring and actually really interesting that what we're seeing now is autumn carving is actually becoming more popular. So you know, I think autumn carvings probably increased by about two and a half percent over the last year. So you know we might have seen a lot of calves being born at one time of the year. We're now seeing a shift and that's going into that sort of October, november period and it's just things like that. How does that play out and how does it affect then sort of the rest of the industry in the UK? So, as I mentioned earlier with Sex Semen, we're definitely leading the way, the way.
Laura Awdry:I think America's just over 50%, I think, for me when I was over in Ireland. Chagas have obviously got their own Dairy Beef 500 program, sort of helping to aim dairy farmers and align the beef industry. But I think their figures were quite low still around sort of that 20% uptake. And again with sort of New Zealand massive, you know they've got 4.9 million dairy cows and they have about 1.8 million bobby calves a year they've. You know it's a huge kind of mountain for them to climb, I think, in terms of dealing with that non-replacement calf issue. So our situation in the UK is unique. We all share the same challenges as dairy producing nations, but I think we probably all have slightly different tools in the toolbox as well.
Andrew Jones:I was going to say I probably first came across the idea of sort of dairy beef in the way. Maybe we do now. Actually, when I was in Victoria because we used to get wagyu's it was wagyu semen, you know they supplied it, was it five bucks, a straw or whatever it was, and then they'd guarantee they'd take them, was it a week or whatever age. It was into that system, but it was only in what was the traditional calving period. And for us, given that we were more more split carving than than, or more all year round split carving than the traditional um, which you say gave us advantages in some ways and disadvantages and others. So it can relate there to what you're saying. Um, but it's just interesting.
Andrew Jones:You say we, we sometimes what's the word? Live in the box? We do, and we forget about the bigger picture in terms of what's going on outside in, in the bigger world. We only think what we're doing. So it's interesting to hear from your experiences of of traveling. But as you dropped harriet in it, I mean you said, uh, right calf, it's your turn now, harriet. So what, what for right calf? What are you defining as the right calf? What are you looking for and what are we hoping to bring over the next five years on that front?
Harriet Bunning:I think Rightcalf is really all about producing calves that have a purpose and if they have that purpose then they're going to be treated well, They've got a value and we won't see the kind of welfare issues that we know are a potential risk of the reputation of the industry. So Rightcalf we formed like a working group as part of the pillar, brought together um representatives from across the industry really. So we had we had dairy farmers, we had calf rearers and finishers in the room, but we also had representatives from the breeding companies, from some of the beef breed societies and then also, yeah, processors like milk processors and beef processors in the room as well. And really it was kind of talking about the problems at the moment around genetics and then kind of trying to come up with some of the solutions and really not putting all of those solutions on the back of the dairy farmers thing, what we could do together as an industry.
Andrew Jones:When you say problems, what do you define as problems for the genetics at the moment?
Harriet Bunning:I think there were a few things that were brought up. Fundamentally, what it comes down to is, if it's the dairy farmer making the breeding decision, calving ease is always going to be number one, and I don't think I could ever try and argue with a dairy farmer that calving ease going to be number one. Yeah, and I don't think I could ever try and argue with a dairy farmer that carving you shouldn't be number one, because really that cow is the most important thing yeah, yeah, exactly, you know, my again victoria.
Andrew Jones:Um, my, when I chose my beef bull, it was it just had to carve, because you usually put them on the poor performing cows anyways. You want them to get up and go as quickly as possible. So you just want them to carve, drop the calf and get up and and go, basically not have any potential problems, which knocked her even worse and then potentially that was the end of her sort of thing.
Harriet Bunning:So completely agree with that comment and and I guess the kind of the uncomfortable truth is that the very easiest way to ensure an easy carving bull is to choose a small beef bull, and those smaller beef bulls are going to produce calves. The beef traits they're passing on to their calves make calves that aren't as fit for purpose in the beef industry. That's the kind of the quick, easy way, um, and so that way we, if we just did that, we'd be producing dairy beef calves that aren't really fit for purpose for the beef industry and that means that we're more likely to get those welfare problems so you're looking for, I suppose really to get some.
Andrew Jones:I know there already is carving ease data, but probably some better carving ease data. Would that be right for the, for the beef? That then gives you the growth rates afterwards. I mean, I'm just using an example off the top of my head again Back in Victoria at least three times now, sorry to everyone listening. I mean I used a bull I suspect we were remembering a bull called O-Man and usually under the US system anything under 8% was a carving ease on the Holstein and it was very rare to get anything under 8%. He was 3 percent and I remember all of those calves calving two weeks early and then, but by the time you got to the point where they were like a month, they were up with everything else because they just grew in that first month. They just grew and you wouldn't have known there was a difference. So really that's what you're kind of looking for for the beef, isn't it?
Harriet Bunning:it's something that that calves easy but then gets the good growth rates going forward yeah, I think data is key really, and we know that if we collect data, we do genetic evaluations, we can find those animals that buck the trend, that maybe have the better beef characteristics, that have good growth rates, like you were saying, yeah, but also carve easily, um, and so really it's saying okay, dairy farmers, carving ease is your number one priority. We need to supply you the data to make find those bulls that are going to give you that carving ease you need, but also produce a calf that's fit for purpose for the beef industry.
Andrew Jones:So pulling back in from we've said I'm talking talking about Helen and Stuart genomics again. Can genomics play a role in this as well? To give us this information?
Harriet Bunning:Exactly, and I think genomics is really helpful for identifying those bulls.
Harriet Bunning:But the other thing that was brought up a lot in our discussions with our working group was this idea that the dairy farmer needs to be rewarded for producing a good beef calf. I think in a lot of cases at the moment, really calves are just is it by an Angus sire, and that's good enough kind of thing. But we know that there's a lot of variation within breed, so you can have one Angus dairy beef calf who's really good and another one who's less good, but I mean they might be even by the same kind of angus size. Half the genetics comes from the cows as well. So I think what would be really interesting and we are seeing this in other countries is this idea of a national genomic testing program where I guess the kind of the perfect scenario I'm picturing is you tag your dairy beef calf, that tag sample gets sent off for genomic testing and you get back a piece of paper that measures the beef genetic potential. Obviously there's lots of other things that come in as well. That calf needs to have got colostrum.
Andrew Jones:It's bbd in. That isn't, it is the one for the thing. So, like a bbd tag, effectively take the. Take a dna sample, as you're doing it, and and send it away and and get.
Harriet Bunning:Exactly, and then that piece of paper could maybe help mean that dairy farmers that have made better beef breeding decisions could be rewarded for it and that calf could be more valuable.
Sarah Bolt:So picking up on that, harriet, you're saying some of those decisions that dairy farmers could be taking. So not just picking calving ease. What things could they be looking for in those genetics to sort of deliver what the beef industry?
Harriet Bunning:requires. So I guess it's not a kind of simple answer, but there are places that we could go at the moment to get that information. The breeding companies and the semen catalogues will often provide some quite good information for some of their beef sires. They are collecting data. I mean some of them will even tell you about the feed efficiency potential of some of those calves. That's obviously a key one that determines profitability of rearing and finishing, but also, just yeah, growth rates. And then we already at the moment produce the national beef evaluations. You can look up sires of these beef calves on the AHDB website through the national beef evaluations to get some results about days to slaughter, carcass weight, even Europe grade, which will all determine how much you get paid for that calf when it's actually slaughtered.
Laura Awdry:And I think that's really key that you said that, harriet, because we've, you know, as rare as ourselves. You can have anguses and they can all kind of come from a catalogue and you can look at something, but then actually when you take that sire data and put it into, say, the Breed Society, the EBV value, that will actually come up with slightly different results than potentially what you might see in that genetic catalogue. So I think sometimes you know dairy farmers are.
Andrew Jones:I think you've talked a lot about um carving ease, but another really big one I think is actually gestation length yeah, I was just thinking that one actually as well, because I know a lot of guys that when they're towards the end, if they're in a block, they'll look at gestation length, won't they? Rather than carving ease if it carves a week earlier or something, great, because that pulls that kale forward that little bit early. She's got a better chance of getting in calf next time around, etc. Etc yeah.
Laura Awdry:So a lot of farmers will be looking at those really short gestation balls. Uh, you know, 274 days or something like that, and they don't necessarily. You know, quite often in the industry a more beefier animal might have a much longer gestation length. So I think it's it's, you know, going forward being able to choose. Uh, what do they call them in new zealand? Curve benders I, I think it was. It was being able to find those bulls that you know.
Laura Awdry:There's a really famous charolais over there called Jerry. They have a dairy beef progeny testing. So they actually go through and test all these dairy beef progeny to use on the dairy farm. And you know, by looking at him he had all the characteristics of a beef animal but somehow he was able to sort of manage that short gestation and that easy carving and produce those carcass qualities. So it's sort of yeah, it's a very difficult task, isn't it, harriet? To sort of find what you need for that dairy farmer but also tick all those boxes for the beef industry too well, I was going to say that that was one of the comments I said earlier.
Andrew Jones:I said I've been to a beef group and picked it up. It was I'm not trying to knock any particular system, but these beef guys went we don't want anything at the spring carving herds, basically because we don't want that jersey in it. We don't want those, those little ones. They don't give us the um carcass that we're looking for at the end. Basically, which is kind of what we're saying and I'm not trying to knock spring carving here at all, but it was the feedback I got from some beef guys one time is that they're not giving us the animals we want, basically.
Harriet Bunning:I think that's interesting. I actually did a little. One of the things that came out of our discussions was this potential issue of small stature dairy cows and, because the amount of data we have in the national beef evaluations, I could actually go in and maybe challenge some of these ideas. So we have an awful lot of carcass data in the national beef evaluations. I think it's about 14 million animals. We have basically kill sheet data for now and that includes dairy beef calves, but it also includes an awful lot of cull cows. So I actually could match up dairy cull cow carcass records and carcass records of their dairy offspring.
Harriet Bunning:And so I looked at that and I went, okay, if we say anything, if we assume a killing out percentage of 50% for cull cows, which is just a number out of thin air but it's a good enough number and we look at animals that we expect their live weight to have been under 450 kilograms and we say, okay, those are our small stature dairy cows. Are those small stature dairy cows more likely to have had progeny that don't hit spec? So say, 280 kilogram dead weight? Um, and they were more likely to than suckler beef or large kind of larger dairy cows. But still. I think it think it was over 90% of their calves that we had in the database did hit that 280. So, yes, I think the outcome of that was that small stature dairy cows are maybe more likely to have calves that are less good for the beef system, but they're still very capable of having calves that are good for the beef system. I think 90% sounds plenty good enough to me.
Sarah Bolt:I think we've all seen some really lovely sort of Jersey blue crosses that you know, with great rumps on them and all sorts, haven't we? So you know, there's obviously quite a few that would fit into that 90% category, that we can even just think of.
Andrew Jones:Well, I was going to say hopefully that's why we're here is to challenge maybe some of these preconceptions that people have, and and that was certainly one of the feedbacks then is it was there. And obviously you're saying, harriet, that you can show that that's not always the case. Well, it's not. It's more than not always the case. It's 90 is the case that they'll they're fit for purpose. So let's be honest, even from a, a normal, as you say, you can still get plenty of animals that aren't fit for purpose. So, um, I mean, okay, how does that compare to other uh, larger, uh, dairy cattle? And if you're talking about the smaller cattle, what? What are their sort of uh percentages wise, if you look at those sorts of information?
Harriet Bunning:I have a feeling that that was around the 92 percent it like it, so it was significantly different, but in the scheme of things it was not a huge difference no, exactly, exactly, exactly so.
Andrew Jones:So any more you want to add about the right calf, harriet or anybody else in as part of this discussion on the right calf is, it's just finding the right animal for your purpose, basically yeah.
Harriet Bunning:So there are a few different things that we as a group think that the industry could do to help support this really. So there's a few things. We talked at the beginning about sex semen and that we have these breeding plan templates that farmers can use, and a lot of the focus has been on sex semen and we think that's really important. But there's that kind of added aspect of don't just go and everything else will go to a beef sire. Be a bit more conscious about what. Which beef sire? Maybe not just use whatever straws the semen salesman happens to have in their tank? Um that, and then also, yeah, I think, supporting this idea of allowing name size on passports. I think that's probably the step before genomic testing. We'd really like to get to genomic testing for dairy beef calves, but just having those name size on passports means that we get so much better data through so that we can then do better genetic evaluations and provide better data back to the dairy farmers.
Andrew Jones:Thinking back to the genomic testing, there's obviously a cost to that. Who's paying for it?
Harriet Bunning:Great question and I think there's an awful lot of discussion that we need to put in place beforehand to work that out. But we, ahdb, already use levy to fund the national beef evaluation, so it would definitely be something we'd consider with our our um boards okay, because I say otherwise.
Andrew Jones:You say that, like you said earlier, the outcome doesn't want to be that all puts all the emphasis back on the dairy farmer to be supplying the right calf, and yet they're the ones that have got to tick all the boxes to then to then supply it through um I don't know, I think.
Laura Awdry:I think there's definitely gonna be a mindset shift.
Laura Awdry:Though, too, andrew, I think dairy farmers have to realize they're actually beef farmers as well now, and when we look at the amount of prime beef, this is prime beef 12 months to 30 months, that is is actually, you know, pure dairy cross beef. That was 37 last year. Uh, so you know, pure dairy cross beef, that was 37% last year. So, you know, including also purebred sort of bulls and maybe some heifers that go in there, I think it was about 40, I'd like to say 43 from memory, but you know that's a substantial amount of beef that comes from the dairy herd. So, in terms of the fact that they are also paying a levy into you know that beef animal then goes into the beef industry, is it that beef animal then goes into the beef industry? Is it like a mindset shift of you know? They do have to also start to realise that they're not a by-product, that calf, it is a co-product and it is going into the beef sector and it's that kind of mindset shift and behaviour and thought process.
Andrew Jones:No, that's a fair comment. It comes back to again the integrated beef supply chain. They want dairy farmers and they want the dairy farmers to be supplying them those beef cross calves, isn't it basically? So, you're right, they it might not be their focus, their dairy farmers, but it is a say, a co-product, byproduct, however you want to describe of what that? No, you don't like byproduct, co-product. Yes, they're not um of of um what they are doing, because there is that market that they are pushing forward to with it. So, yeah, that's a fair comment, definitely, definitely.
Harriet Bunning:Can I just come in here? So the other thing that I think we keep talking about integrated schemes and there are some great integrated schemes out there but I think something that came up definitely in some of our discussions and I know also in some of the right root discussions is that it's supporting even those calves that aren't through integrated schemes. I know there's some really great examples of individual dairy farms and beef farms working together and not going through any of those kind of big official integrated schemes but effectively running their own little one and that works really well because of the kind of communication running their own little one and that works really well because of the kind of communication exactly they're picking between them, the sires, so it ticks the box for the dairy farm and it ticks the box for the, the beef um rearer, afterwards as well.
Andrew Jones:Did you say there are plenty of people doing that as well? Definitely? Yeah so that was, that was the first pillar. I forget, sorry, what the second half and then right start.
Andrew Jones:Right start. Thank you, sarah. I'm glad you're still listening, sarah. So the right start and we could just talk all sorts of things here. I mean, we could talk about colostrum, we could talk about milk powder and obviously we've done a podcast on them and the immunogy and various different bits and pieces. But from your point and it's all related to the right start, from the strategy's point of view what do you consider to be the right, or what is considered to be the right start?
Laura Awdry:Well, you mentioned a lot, didn't you there, andrew, sort of the colostrum, the feeding, but I think you know all that information exists out there and I think the right start pillar was more aimed at kind of getting a really concise message. It was aiming that all calves sort of under 12 weeks of age there was sort of standard best practice throughout the industry. There's a lot of information out there for farmers, you know, from different representation from feed companies, from vets, from research, and there's probably like a lack of I I guess, maybe standard operating procedures on farm as well. So the right, the right calf group was really aimed at kind of you know it sounds silly but professionalizing calf rearing, you know making, making it a a really important role on the farm. It's not just that thing that you go out and you just, oh, I've got to go feed those calves or something out on the farm. It's actually it's actually giving value to that job as something that's really important to the supply chain.
Andrew Jones:So, uh, that was kind of, I think, the basis behind what the right start was aiming to do, and for I suppose you could argue for every calf to have the right start, because, again, I'm not trying to knock anybody, but sometimes you do see that the dairy heifers maybe have that little bit better tlc than the beef calves. Um, I'll honest, I've been guilty of that in the past. So you know, I know we're not here for Calves Anonymous, but I'm going to say I have been guilty of that in the past, but you know. So, really, it's making sure every calf has that right start, because even you know again we go back to stuff we've already covered before.
Andrew Jones:You know, 50% of their growth is in. That first is in. That was it first month, six weeks, I can't remember what it is. Now I've took my head and, um, you know, again, that's when their organ development is, that's when you, if you, that's when they're more like the best feed conversion, that's when you get the growth going first, to start with, it's. Yeah, every calf needs the right start, doesn't it?
Sarah Tomlinson:yeah, and I think in some of the working groups I was involved in, there's an awful lot of information out there. You know volumes of milk you feed your calf, abrupt weaning, staggered weaning there isn't a best practice. We could say that everybody follows. It's what's the best practice for your individual business and what you can do and commit to. And so we talked about actually pooling all of that information for advisors, farmers, anybody involved in calf health, to pull out evidence based best practice, to be able to produce that standard operating procedure on that farm. And you're right, having been a vet, in practice we used to have different protocols for beef calves and dairy calves, you know, and actually we shouldn't. Um.
Sarah Tomlinson:The other thing that I think we talked about was about um identifying areas where we don't know and where are the evidence gaps to ensure we are getting good research coming through. You know, innovation and technology to make the ability to deliver best practice through data recording, calf health, temperature monitoring, things like that. You know there's there's so much information out there. How can we collate that and make sure that farmers, advisors have access to it and have confidence in that information? Um. So it's about knowledge exchange, research, data, evidence, um, but translating that into tangible actions on farm but you're right in terms of I remember it's again social media.
Andrew Jones:Was it the first young stock conference? Wasn't that would mean what? Two years ago, was it? And I remember somebody going and they showed their scribbles on the um. The first speaker had said you want to, you know, hit eight liters plus of milk. And then the second speaker went well, you only want to hit like four and get solids into them as quickly as possible, and they come as well. What am I supposed to do when I've got different companies giving me different pieces of information, how that is not helping as a industry, when farmers, advisors, whoever, are getting conflicting, confusing information and it wants to be a, as you say, evidence-based um able to back up and say no, this this is what we need, we want, we want a clear message to everybody to ensure we've we're hitting the right protocols yeah, that's a really interesting one, isn't it?
Sarah Bolt:because whilst there's such a range of milk powders out there whether they're skin-based, whey-based, what percentage proteins, what percentage fats they are there, that will dictate as to what that weaning looks like, what that feed intakes looks like. And until we get a better understanding of milk powder labels and can understand what we're actually looking at and therefore what that powder is going to deliver for that calf and therefore what else the other protocols need to be, I think that's one of those big areas that that knowledge exchange is really, really required.
Laura Awdry:We see this too from, you know, ahdb's point of view.
Laura Awdry:We've just had GB Calf Week and you know we put on four meetings, you know, focusing on calf area and calf health and they were incredibly well attended and any previous sort of KE events that we've done that have been really farmer facing sort of weaning management and stuff like that.
Laura Awdry:They are generally the most popular events that we have. There's a huge wealth of knowledge out there that farmers really want to access and I think, as we now see that shift, it's not just necessarily the information on dairy farms but, as like Harriet mentioned, there's a lot of people that are going out to rear these beef calves now and work directly with dairy farmers. They're having to learn a whole new skill set and we need to be sure that as an industry, we have the right tools for those people that are coming into the industry as maybe new entrants or new starters and looking for a way into farming and calf rearing has become. Well, it was for our own business started off calf rearing. That's how we ended up with a farm. So, you know, I think we need to have the tools for those people.
Andrew Jones:But that's an interesting comment as well, because I'd just say, from the podcast point of view, anything that's usually to do with calf rearing is extremely popular. You know, as it still stands, laura Tennant is still the most popular. Sarah keeps creeping up there and then Laura moves forward a little bit again, but you know, she's still just just about the most popular. But then you know, when we've done the, was it the evidence-based car for anyone? I think with butylar, that's been incredibly popular. The recent ones we've done on the bit of the journey we've been on, they've proved to being incredibly popular.
Andrew Jones:So, just yeah, people want that knowledge. Um, you know, I've even had vets say to me oh yeah, we recommend people listen to the one with Laura on milk powders and whatever. You know, people want that knowledge. On the on the young stock rearing and undoubtedly, as you say that there is a thirst for it. But we, even with that, we still need to be consistent and the right message, isn't it? When you've got opposing companies giving you different information, you're going to sit there and go. Well, what am I supposed to do?
Sarah Tomlinson:Yeah, and I think, picking up on what Laura said about and whatever term we call it, professionalising the role of calf rearing is fundamental to, and a lot of the focus has been on calf rearing because they tend to be the people on farm that are doing it, but it's done, as a, like Laura said, before you go out and do your day job or before kids go to school. And what my aspiration would be, having been a vet in practice, is, rather than doing my weekly fertility adult cow visit and a oh, while you're here, can you look at the calves?
Sarah Bolt:there is a two weekly monthly calf routine visit and that's a role for vet techs as well, isn't it, sarah? I think you know that's such a a growing area that farmers could use their vet, use their vet techs to be doing that role on farm.
Andrew Jones:If perhaps they haven't got all the resources to be monitoring it themselves to actually outsource some of those, things, yeah, whether it's weighing not just disbudding, but also weighing, and, as you say, you've got to measure it, to quantify, haven't you, to know how you're progressing?
Sarah Tomlinson:Yeah, and just keeping people on track. You know how are you cleaning your buckets. You know what you know. Just remind, we all need that, don't? We all know what we should do, but we all know what we should do?
Sarah Bolt:and if we don't, there's an excellent ahdb uh video that features the good and only the one and only sarah here. Um, showing everybody how to watch a calf bucket. How to wash a calf bucket um, yeah, it's. Um, if you want a laugh, it's a good. How to watch a calf bucket how to watch a calf bucket yeah, it's.
Sarah Tomlinson:If you want a laugh, it's a good one to watch, yeah, but we do laugh. But actually as a team, with your vet or the specialist vet tech sitting down and watching a video like that and having a discussion around it and actually then adapting protocols, is so powerful. You know we can't underestimate that power of um teams working together, change, measure, monitor, change. You know things don't have to be set in stone, do they?
Andrew Jones:they are always evolving I'd also say but as you say, it's a team bringing your nutritionist yes you know, I mean with emily, when we did the one about the hidden month sort of thing, um, that was the same I she was saying, but I said, well, yeah, I'd be the same. Sometimes, often, I won't see them from when they go out in the spring to when they come back in the autumn. Oh well, we want to, we want a bullying diet for them and okay, well, what's happened in the last six months or whatever it's happened to be? Where are they? What are they doing? How have they been? You know these things all come into. If you want to hit those targets, if you want to be cut, I mean, I know we're talking um beef more, but you know, if we want to be hitting carving at 23 months for the beef, if we still want to be colored and not culling them out at whatever age it is, um, what your target is, these things still need to be monitored and still need to go forward with it.
Laura Awdry:Now, sarah, I'm glad you brought that video up because actually I was just looking at that the other day and, no, you're laughing. But that sort of knowledge in those videos because people learn in different ways. You know, you might read something in a book or you might attend a meeting and some people just like to watch something online. But you know that colostrum tubing video is our most popular video on the ahdb dairy channel. It's had like 73 000 views or something like that. So, despite the fact that these might be really old resources and videos not saying you're old, sarah, sorry, but it is literally, they are really, they're really People are still accessing these tools and resources, which shows that there's definitely a need for that sort of information.
Laura Awdry:And, as Sarah said, it's like managing change. On farmers and teams, I think you've got to engage your team to get because you can come in with and I've learned this traveling you can come in with all the ideas in the world. If you don't get the team on board with it, it doesn't happen. So I think, yeah, teamwork's important, yeah.
Andrew Jones:So any other comments regarding the right start? Or really we're saying that the information's out there? People just need to be using it in the right way. Yeah, yeah, okay. So the third pillar, I believe, was right route. Is that correct?
Sarah Tomlinson:That's correct.
Andrew Jones:Yes, so what are we was right route. Is that correct? That's correct, yes, so what are we meaning by right route then?
Sarah Tomlinson:So it's promoting a fair calf supply chain that supports sustainable productive businesses right from the calf end right through to the finisher. So it does, I suppose, gone, go beyond calf strategy. Yeah, we are airing into the sort of beef supply chain. Um, no surprise, the focus is on having more tb biosecure units to um support those farmers that are under TB restrictions to get those calves off.
Andrew Jones:What were you referring to? What you mean AFUs?
Sarah Tomlinson:Yeah, and even exploring novel units. So one of the asks is having grazing. So we used to have grazing AFUs when wildlife control became sort of widespread across the predominant high-risk area. Obviously we didn't want to put potentially infected cattle back out to infect the wildlife population which we were managing that risk. So they were, those licenses were were taken back and no new grazing afus have been licensed.
Sarah Tomlinson:But referring back to we were talking about those calves from some of those spring block calving units with small stature cows, some of those animals might rear better from a carcass quality point of view by grazing. So is there options that we can explore with that? It's a massive ask because we do have policy that says no way we don't have grazing AFUs, but could we explore some of those? The other thing is just supply and demand. We need more of them. So I was in a meeting a few weeks ago and someone said to me that there were a thousand calves needing a place in an AFU and only 500 places available. That's why generally dairy farmers will always say you know, I get um shafted on price because it's supply and demand. So the more people we can encourage to become these biosecure rearing units by making the red tape less, not not increasing risk, because they are biosecure units. Um, and again, we've had that really successful working group that has looked at this, brought the right people into the room to have those conversations. I mean, the success of the previous strategy was because we took APHA and DEFRA staff, who were the policy writers and makers, out onto dairy farms to look at the logistics of getting calves off farm within a set window when you're under movement restrictions, and they saw the practicalities of it and even just the paperwork. So we um so that. So TB is still going to be a big focus.
Sarah Tomlinson:Um, the other thing we talked about and we talked about this through the other two pillars is access to data and that ability to share data. So we need that traceability system, that database where we can get that carcass information back to the genetics. But also, if I'm buying calves, what vaccines have they had? You know, what tests have they had to to prove their cloth, what colostrum intake they've taken, all of that information should have a value. Um, but we need a system to be able to share that and I and I think the ambition is the livestock information system program um, you know, we want to get the cattle traceability, the cattle movement's right. But the aspiration is that, with permission, you can, as a farmer, share whatever information you want.
Andrew Jones:But I know I I'm no it expert and I know that's probably a massive ask but I, I know myself, like when we spent spoke to butylar and I guess we end up talking about the immunity and everything like what you're saying there. As they said, I guess, because they're integrated, it makes it easier so they can follow those animals through. But really you're saying, and let's make this almost a nationwide thing, um, whether they're in a system or not, but they were like, take for sake the immunity, they could see the results. Because you're, you're killing out that much quicker. You're not waiting till sort of three year old before they finish the first lactation, second on, to see what the results are.
Andrew Jones:They were killing out earlier beef cattle. You can see those results earlier. They're able to see that those calves, for argument's sake, that had the better, using the immunities example, had the better colostrum, therefore had the better growth rates, killed out earlier, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, etc. Etc, etc. It's that kind of data actually is really relevant. You might think, well, once that calf's gone on, it doesn't matter. Well, actually you can say in a year's time, two years time, you'll have that feedback and go.
Sarah Tomlinson:Well, actually, maybe if your protocol needs to change because X, y, z and actually it might benefit dairy replacements as well, yeah, and feeding right back into what Harry was talking about, in the right calf, I mean all of these are totally interlinked. Is that for the dairy farmer to be rewarded for making that good decision on the beef semen, whether that's from an environmental point of view, carcass quality or feed conversion? That finisher that buys that animal for the last I know three to six months of its life? All through the supply chain there has been an uplift on value because they know the potential and so. But we need that feedback loop and we need it to be really accessible, really understandable, and to be able to action. Action on it.
Andrew Jones:I hate to say it, but do you think that's possible, given that how do I put it? Certain people they like to hold on to, whether it's data or whatever it happens to be? Do you think it's possible that, as an industry, we can open it up to allow that flow of data?
Sarah Tomlinson:So that's the aspiration of the strategy. Is we're asking people to sign up to allow that flow of data? So that's the aspiration of the strategy. Is we're asking people to sign up to this? Because we are talking about engaging with the traceability system to share health, productivity and sustainability data across the supply chain and if people are wanting to be involved in it and sign up to it, you know that that is an aspiration.
Harriet Bunning:And I think that's why it's important that the strategy it's not an AHDb car strategy, it's a gb car strategy. It's. I know it's us talking to you today, but there's been people involved across the industry, the whole industry yeah um, yeah, so everyone needs to to kind of buy it and get involved to make it happen so, um, anything else want to be added to the right route so our sort of third goal is around promoting british beef and dairy just as a as a whole thing.
Sarah Tomlinson:We still import quite a lot of beef um, so there's still capacity for more dairy beef or beef, gb beef to fulfill that um category, um. And and we talked about um again all of this originally came out of a reputational risk. I think hopefully we've moved from risk to being able to promote um and that is part of that GB beef and dairy kind of whole message, isn't it?
Andrew Jones:yeah, so the right route is it is British beef or British market, to the British quality and British standards. You're getting a good quality product because we can follow it through. We we know how it's been reared, we know what's happened, rather than we're not sure where it's come from. We don't know what its history is. Yeah.
Sarah Tomlinson:Yeah, and just having that assurance across that supply chain as well.
Sarah Tomlinson:We did talk about in some of our working groups, about whole life assurance, which I know is a bit Marmite Some people love the idea, some people don't but actually actually, um, you know, through things like red tractor we have able been able to influence a lot of change within the dairy industry for example, the breeding strategy to bring about wider use of dairy sex, female sex semen, to change the number of dairy bull calves we've um see born. So actually, and I am naturally an optimist and I know that I see a lot of potential to be able to um instigate positive change through assurance schemes, um, you know, not the stick but the carrot, and again it comes back to being rewarded for that. Um, there's also, you know, a bigger ask of um just promoting british beef through um, our own domestic use, um, um within retail, uh, within, so non, I don't know what the proper term is you know, out of home consumption of of meat and dairy okay, okay, so, so really we we've talked about the.
Andrew Jones:The strategy now for the next five years is looking at right calf. So, are you breeding it? Are you? Are you breeding and excessive dairy heifers maybe, where you could be bringing more? Uh, beef animals. And if you are breeding beef, are you bringing the right ones for what you're looking for? The right start well, we've covered that multiple times before, but really it's ensuring that calf has the right start to life colostrum, with rearing, whatever it happens to be, and then right root is how it therefore sees its life through, basically until it's on your dinner plate. And who doesn't like a nice bit of beef? I'm sure's somebody that does, but I'm sorry, I'm a big beef fan. There you go, but, but really I got. I'm looking at the time now and I'll move around the screen, um, because I'm thinking we probably need to start wrapping this up. But, um, harriet, is there anything else you'd like to add to the conversation we've had today?
Harriet Bunning:I think there's been lots of discussion about the importance of data and there's lots of things we have planned to mean that the data flows better. But right here, right now, if you are a farmer who has carbs on your farm, please put the sire on the passport. It sounds like the most basic thing, but it just means that the data that we already have we can make so much better use out of no, that's.
Andrew Jones:I think that's a simple request that everyone can do today, if they're not already doing it. So no, well, uh, well, mentioned um laura oh, it's really tough.
Laura Awdry:Actually, if there's a call to action, I'm always just gonna say give as much and as good a quality colostrum as you possibly can to your calf. This is me as a beef fair and a beef farmer, um, but hopefully you know, from today it's come across that this, this isn't going to be like onerous. This isn't about, you know, us telling farmers what to do. This is about collectively getting the entire industry together, getting us out of our silos and getting everybody to sort of line up so we're actually all on the same page strategically, uh, and and hopefully can then, you know, empower farmers, I guess, with decision making going forward as well.
Andrew Jones:Sarah Tomlinson.
Sarah Tomlinson:So Laura's kind of stolen what I was going to say. I don't want farmers listening to this thing. Oh, we've got to deliver on this because farmers are under so much time pressure pressure with everything including TB, everything including TB. This is about industry coming together to ensure we put a framework, a model in place that actually makes it really easy for farmers to change things on farm, because there's a reward, whether that is financial, environmental, welfare or whatever it is. So this isn't for farmers to deliver. This is for industry to deliver, to support farmers, to get rewarded really.
Andrew Jones:Okay, okay, sarah Bolt.
Sarah Bolt:So I think what I'm just picking up from the whole conversation is that it's that strategy that is there to enable the success of our beef industry, of which our dairy industry is the foundation of so much of, and I think that it's just, as you say, just that framework to bring everybody together to try and achieve the right thing for the whole industry so everybody in the industry benefits from it and the consumer knows that they're getting that high welfare, high environmentally friendly project product that you know we, we know that we are producing within the in this country definitely, definitely.
Andrew Jones:So yeah, no, I'd like to thank our three guests. So thank you very much for your time today and I hope everyone's enjoyed this. You've had a good GB Carve week. We're obviously been talking about the GB Carve strategy for the next five years. If people want to know more about this information maybe hear more about the three pillars or read more about the three pillars is it on the AHDB website or is there other resources available?
Sarah Tomlinson:So you can find a link from the AHDB website, or is there other resources available so you can find a link from the AHDB website? But we are linking this in with the ruminant health and welfare, other welfare strategies. So there's a dairy welfare strategy. The industry came together. There's soon to be a beef welfare strategy, there's a sheep welfare strategy and so now this is a ultimately a calf welfare strategy. So ruminant health and welfare website. We will have pages on there that goes through all of the background and those pillars and what we're trying to achieve thank you very much.
Andrew Jones:So there you go. If you want to hear more, then go and look for that, but otherwise, uh, say thank you to three of you and let's just remember the three pillars, which are right calf, right start and right journey. I got it right and I wasn't looking right, right.
Andrew Jones:Sorry, I got it wrong. I was gonna say I wasn't looking at my bit of paper. Right calf, right start, right roots, there you go. So, uh, on that note, I'd like to say again thank you to the three of you, but otherwise it's a goodbye from me.
Sarah Bolt:It's a goodbye from me it's great to speak to you all. Oh, thank you for having three of you, but otherwise it's a goodbye from me. It's a goodbye from me. It's great to speak to you all.
Laura Awdry:Oh, thank you for having us and keeping the three of us all under control and not talking over each other. You've done incredibly well. Yes, thank you.
Andrew Jones:No, it wasn't quite as chaotic as I thought. So thank you very much. Thank you for listening to the Tune the Cut podcast podcast for the UK dairy industry, brought to you from the southwest of England and listened to around the world. Now for the really boring bit, I'm afraid the legal disclaimer. The information provided during this podcast has been prepared for general information purposes only and does not constitute advice. The information must not be relied upon for any purpose and no representation or warranty is given to its accuracy, completeness or otherwise. Any reference to other organisations, businesses or products during this podcast are not endorsements or recommendations of Tune the Cud Ltd. The views of Andrew Jones are personal and may not be the views of Tune the Cud Ltd. And the views of Sarah Bolt are personal and may not be the views of Kingshay Farming and Conservation. Thank you and goodbye.