Employing is Easy; Keeping People Isn’t!

New year, fresh start, better teams. We sit down with Becky Miles from Real Success to map out how UK dairy farms can turn a good hire into a long-term teammate. Not with grand gestures, but with the basics done well: a thoughtful first day, honest safety culture, and the kind of everyday communication that prevents small problems becoming big ones.

We unpack a practical onboarding blueprint you can copy tomorrow—10 a.m. start, warm welcome, terms and conditions on the table, health and safety brief, PPE issued, WhatsApp groups explained, and a mentor assigned. Becky introduces the accountability ladder to shift behaviour from blame and excuses to ownership and solutions, and explains why leaders must provide time, tools, skills, and knowledge before they demand results. We dig into vision, mission, and values, turning them from corporate wallpaper into simple, lived behaviours around animal handling, safety, and respect.

From there, we get specific: weekly breakfast huddles with KPIs, sharing milk tickets and cell count trends, giving credit when it’s due, and handling conflict with cool heads and open questions. We challenge the myth that pay is the main lever, showing how flexible rotas, visible leadership, and small rituals—like a team breakfast after milk recording—carry more weight. Training stays central, with smart ways to protect investment, because the real risk is an untrained person who stays. We also tackle facilities and first impressions; a bright, tidy parlour and fit-for-purpose kit speak louder than any slogan.

If you’re aiming to reduce churn, lift morale, and get more done with less drama, this conversation offers concrete steps and language you can use with your team today. Subscribe, share with a fellow farmer, and leave a review with one retention tactic you’re going to try this month.

This was recorded in November 2025, and all information was correct at the time of recording.

For more information about our podcast visit www.chewinthecud.com/podcast or follow us on Instagram @chewinthecudpodcast. ChewintheCud Ltd is also on Facebook & LinkedIn. You can email us directly at podcast@chewinthecud.com

Transcript

New Year And Episode Focus

Andrew Jones 0:14

This is the Chewing the Cud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry, brought to you from the southwest of England and listened to around the world. Hello and welcome to Chewing the Cud Podcast. My name's Andrew Jones, and with me as always is Sarah Boltz. How are you doing, Sarah?

Sarah Bolt 0:40

I'm very well, thank you, Andrew. How are you keeping?

Andrew Jones 0:43

Happy New Year, Sarah.

Sarah Bolt 0:45

Happy New Year to you too, Andrew.

Andrew Jones 0:47

Thank you. Thank you. Good Christmas.

Sarah Bolt 0:49

Had a lovely Christmas. Thank you ever so much. Yeah. Lots of uh lots of good food, lots of uh lots of good wine and um some great great company as well. So what more can you want?

Andrew Jones 1:00

Well exactly, and I hope uh say wishing all our listeners a happy new year, and I hope you've had the same. Um it's 2026, we've got a lot planned for the coming year, but this episode we thought we'd follow up um on the one we did January last year in terms of talking about your staff and and and this time more talking about staff retention. And in it I was trying to um mention a quote from Richard Branson, which I could not remember right at the time, so I thought I'll find it and mention it now. And the quote that Richard Branson said was train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough so they don't want to.

Sarah Bolt 1:39

That's a hard one to get your head around exactly um at the time, but uh makes so much sense when you say it slowly like that.

Andrew Jones 1:47

Yeah, I I just couldn't remember the wording, I know what I was trying to say, but it's just such a good quote, isn't it?

Sarah Bolt 1:53

It is such a good quote, and very relevant to what we were talking about at the time.

Andrew Jones 1:57

Yeah, very much so, very much so. So we hope you'll enjoy it now. And our last uh intro we teased uh we had some news, so I guess it's time to share some news, isn't it?

Sarah Bolt 2:08

It is, it is gone, Andrew. It's uh it's your news.

Live Event Announcement: AI And Herbal Leys

Andrew Jones 2:13

Well, it's your my news. Oh you're part of this, Sarah, but uh w we had a we had a little think and we thought uh something was ticking away in my brain, and uh so we're excited that um come February, late in February, um we have got a live event planned. Now it won't go out live, but the plan is we will have uh two sessions, morning and afternoon. Um the first one is going to be about artificial intelligence, the second one is going to be about herbal lays, so a bit of a mix, I understand. Um we are going to have a panel um make a small talk to the audience. It will be very limited the size of the audience, given the room at the Southwest Area Development Centre where it's going to be hosted. Um we'll make a talk to the to the audience and to us, Sarah and I hosting like usual. But then once that's done, the idea is people can then ask the panel questions on those subjects. We're hoping some will be pre-submitted, some will be off the cuff in the moment. But if you'd like to know more about that, please do let us know and you'd like to attend. Um so the date is Tuesday, the 24th of February. It will be held at the Southwest Dairy Development Centre. Um, and uh we'll announce more details. We've got the speakers pretty much confirmed um uh at the time of re-recording this. Um we just need to you know dot a few I's and cross a few T's. But that's the idea. So if you'd like to be part of the audience and uh be able to ask some questions, then please do let us know at the usual address of podcast at tune the cud.com. Um and uh we'd uh be happy to add you to our invitation list because it is gonna be very limited to spaces.

Sarah Bolt 4:00

It's almost gonna be like our very own Gardner's question time. Well she says, being the sad Radiophone listener that I am and uh thoroughly enjoy that uh that programme.

Andrew Jones 4:10

I've got to be honest here, I don't think I've ever listened, but someone else has basically said that to me that what one of the uh speak potential speakers he said, Oh, it's a bit like Gardner's question time. I said, Yeah, in my head, I guess I'm thinking, Well, you're probably more suited to be Fiona Bruce than me, but um I I'm thinking of question time, that that kind of thing that will have um, you know, a panel talk about say AI in the morning, uh Lays in the afternoon, and then um people can book to do one or both sessions, um, because they may be interested in one or other. Uh and uh yeah, and then ask ask some real questions. We're gonna record the whole thing, edit it, and then put it out later and put them both out later in 2026 for people to hear. So I hope that will be of interest to people.

Sarah Bolt 4:54

That's fabulous. So just remind people how they can get in touch to uh to get their invitations.

Andrew Jones 4:59

Uh just email us at podcast at chewingthecud.com.

Sarah Bolt 5:04

Brilliant. We look forward to hearing from you all.

Andrew Jones 5:06

Yeah, we do. We do. I'm I'm hoping, I'm I'm excited, and I'm hoping it will be a an interesting event. Um, lots to learn as always, um, and hopefully have some uh interesting questions from everybody that's there. But in the meantime, now we've given you a bit more news about that, um it's time to go listen to our guest and talking about staff and I guess staff retention. This podcast has been brought to you today by TuneTheCud Limited, who offer completely independent dairy and beef nutrition, cow signals advice and training along with ROM's mobility scoring. For more details on these and other services available, please visit our website www.tunethecud.com or email us directly on nutrition at tune the cud.com. TuneThe Cud Limited now offers first aid training from a registered first aid at work trainer and experienced minor injuries practitioner. For more details, please visit our website www.tunethecud.com or email us directly on training at tune the cud.com. Hello, I'm Andrew Jones.

Sarah Bolt 6:24

And I'm Sarah Bolt.

Andrew Jones 6:25

And welcome to the TuneThe Cud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry.

Meet Becky Miles And Her Journey

Sarah Bolt 6:30

Farmer, advisor, processor, and everyone else. We have topics and episodes that will interest you.

Andrew Jones 6:35

We discuss the practical and the technical aspects of different UK dairy industry topics.

Sarah Bolt 6:41

We aim to make you think about what you're doing and ask yourself, can it be done differently?

Andrew Jones 6:45

Listen to us speak with specialists from inside and outside the industry about their area of expertise.

Sarah Bolt 6:51

Subscribe and listen to episodes for free on your favourite podcast platform.

Andrew Jones 6:56

Sign up to our website, www.chewingthecud.com for podcast notifications so you never miss an episode.

Sarah Bolt 7:03

And links to our socials, including Instagram, ChewingTheCud Podcast. All one word and remember, no G.

Andrew Jones 7:10

Or email us direct on podcast at ChewingTheCud.com.

Sarah Bolt 7:14

If you like what we do, please share and leave us a review to show your support. And that's it. Enjoy today's episode.

Andrew Jones 7:32

Hello and welcome back to Tune the Cut Podcast and a happy new year to everybody. Um today our guest is Becky Miles. Hello, Becky.

Becky Miles 7:40

Good morning. How are we all?

Andrew Jones 7:42

Good, good. From real thank you. From Real Success. Now we thought we'd ask Becky on. It's beginning of the year last year. We had um Paul Harris from Real Success on. And that episode uh from the feedback we had went down very well. So we thought we'd continue that again, New Year. Start thinking about your staff. Um I suppose we've got through the, I'm not gonna say hump, but we've got through Christmas, we've got through New Year, and now it probably feels like a bit the hump January, February. Um so we sort of talk. So Becky, I know you've been on before um actually with Sarah as a guest, wasn't it, when we spoke about women in dairy.

Becky Miles 8:14

Yeah, we had we had a reet laugh, didn't we? But can you just uh tell everybody a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today? Oh my goodness, we don't have that long. Um yes, so studied to be a farm secretary at Sparshall, then went to Harper Adams, and then I got my first job, which I will talk about a bit later, at uh West of England Farmers Grain Trading. Um didn't stay there an awfully long time, got married, saw the opportunity to go and farm in southwest Portugal, growing baby new potatoes to export back here and manage a 1200-head flock of sheep on a frequent lambing basis. Uh, we went out with a suitcase each and a collie dog, and then we came back seven years later with two kids and a load of stuff, as you do. Uh, but it was a fantastic experience, and I always talk about it because if you don't put your hat in the ring when you see a job advert, then you're never gonna get it. So really grateful we we put ourselves forward. Uh came back, worked on the Isle of Wight for a little bit for the garlic farm, then up to um near Newmarket in Suffolk, worked for a rural pension portfolio, which I've never experienced before. It's fascinating. And we were doing sustainable development, which was new at the time, um, and then got divorced around that time and then went to HDB and worked in the dairy knowledge exchange team for 13 years. Left there four years. That's where we first met. It is, it is. We worked very closely together in the Southwest. We had a great time um and left there four years ago and started working for real success. And I've got a couple of other hats I wear as well at the moment.

The Cost Of Poor Onboarding

Andrew Jones 9:49

Can't believe it's been four years now, to be honest with you, Becky. Um but obviously like Sarah, I'd uh met you when you're still at AHDB originally. But obviously, we spoke to Paul about you know um getting people management and really it started a lot about getting people on farm and the differences that he saw coming into the industry. And as you said, one of the basics was people not even have toilets or whatever it was. But I guess today we're looking, we're concentrating more on you've you've all you've taken them on board, you've you've agreed to to take them on as a member of your staff, but it's more about working with them, on boarding them, um, staff retention, those sorts of things, isn't it? I think is what we've sort of planned to talk about a little bit today. So where would you like to start? You've just decided to employ me. You've given me the nod, yeah, well, you can start on Monday. Where's it going to go from there?

Becky Miles 10:42

Yeah, so I think within farming, you know, we've got this saying, well sown is half grown. Do we actually do the same for our staff when they join our team? Uh, how often do I hear people complaining they can't get staff, uh, or they don't work enough, or they don't do long enough hours, they don't do the jobs right, they show no initiative, and bang on and on and on. It's absolutely not the way to speak about your staff in public because you're now uh bracketed as a moaner and not somebody anybody wants to come and work for. That's how you talk about your team, because without a team, nothing's gonna happen. Okay. Um so we need to give them the best start, just as we would for our crops and our livestock. We make sure our crops and livestock we invest time and money and nurturing and support to make sure they've got the right nutrition. Uh, and if there's anything wrong with them, we react and do something. Do we do that with our people? Not very often, I'm afraid. Um so when we recruit somebody, when they start, that's our golden opportunity, the honeymoon period, when they're all fired up, you've got that opportunity to get the most out of them. When I say I don't mean you know work them to death in 90 hour week, but get them on board. Get them on board.

Andrew Jones 12:00

They're enthusiastic once be there. We need to cultivate that enthusiasm to continue them uh in the business longer term.

Becky Miles 12:08

Exactly. And just like with the young calf, it's your golden opportunity, you get the best return on investment in terms of growth. It's the same with people. So make the most of it. And I'm sure um you we most people listening in will have had a job at some time, and maybe we could reflect now on how we were treated when we first started. Uh, and was that a good experience and or was it not such a good experience? So um I will share that my first job when I left Harper Adams was working for West of England farmers as a grain trader, and I turned up on the first day on a Monday all excited, and my manager came and met me at reception and took me to my desk and and sat opposite me. And that was pretty much it for the week. I had no job description, I had no didn't know what my responsibilities was were, what I was supposed to be doing. And uh, to be honest, on Friday I phoned in sick. And on Monday I did go back, and he met me in reception and said and apologized and said, I know exactly why you weren't here on Friday, things will be different. Well, they improved a little bit, but not enough. I was already looking for another job. So that was poor onboarding.

Sarah Bolt 13:15

And I'm sure that that's you know, that you explain that that situation. I'm sure there's a lot of people that have been in very similar situations, sort of, here's your laptop, there we are, that's the job, go off and do it. And it's we all need to learn, don't we? We all need to understand you know what what is the aim of the business? What is the aim, what how does your role fit into that business?

Day-One Basics: T&Cs, H&S, PPE

Becky Miles 13:42

Yep, exactly. So are you left floundering and confused and unable to ask questions, or are you guided from the moment you arrive? Welcome, welcome to the team. Uh, here is let me show you how we do things. Uh this is where you can leave your coat, this is where we have lunch. Uh we do have a toilet, but please tell me you have a toilet on your farm. It's 2020, 2026 now. Come on. We should have a toilet on farm and it should be suitable to be used. Um so don't blow the opportunity. This is this is a golden, golden ticket. Uh don't just stick them on a scraper tractor or get into bedding archives or greasing a kit or sweeping the yard and letting them get on with it, because they'll be alright, won't they? They said they knew what to do when they were at the interview, but they don't know how you do it on your farm. Where are the tools? Where is the restroom? Yeah. You want them to do a good job, they want to make a good impression. Are you actually allowing them to do that? Are you setting them up for yourself up for success and them for success?

Andrew Jones 14:44

Well, it it can be simple things. I know it's one I often quote that I used to do. If you particularly if someone's milking, don't expect you you employ them on the Monday morning, don't expect them to turn up at five o'clock on a Monday morning. I always used to bring them in at 10 o'clock after breakfast. Because at five o'clock in the morning, in the dark, they're stumbling around, they don't know where they are, they don't know what's going on, or they don't know there's a hose left there for them to trip over. Um, you know, turn up at 10 o'clock, give them the introduction then and then do the first milking with them in the afternoon, you know. A couple of hours, it's not going to make a lot of difference. It's it's just why have people stumbling in the dark, not knowing what they're doing? Have them turn up at 10 o'clock or whenever it is breakfast finishes for you, have them after come in after breakfast, then do the introduction, and then do the afternoon milking. It's just little things like that can actually make a big difference.

Becky Miles 15:33

Exactly. And then it shows you've made an effort and you've thought about it. So you're instantly on the front foot, and they're they've observed that and they're going to value that and and feel supported. Um so you need a plan, basically. Um, and I suggest you know when they arrive, yeah, meet them in the office and have a cup of tea. Um, you maybe still be some paperwork to go through. Uh welcome to our business. We're looking forward to you working with us. We've, you know, we've got everything set up for you. Um, and talk about what was in the offer letter. Make sure you give them the terms and conditions on day one. That's a legal requirement. The contract must be with them within the first two months as things stand at the moment. I mean, at this time of recording.

Andrew Jones 16:13

Difference between terms and conditions and contract.

Becky Miles 16:16

Contract gives you all the policies and the details of their salary and everything. Terms and conditions are it is what it says on the tin terms and the conditions of employment. Um yeah. Uh ideally you would go through the health and safety policies with them before they start doing anything on farm so that you're covered and they're covered. Uh, hopefully as well. Ideally, you have a staff handbook and they can go through that. I don't expect them to read and absorb it all that in that day, but give them the headlines of what's important, and then they just go away uh and read it and then sign that they have seen it and um so everyone knows that they've they've got the details. Uh there may be some more personal details you need so you can pay them correctly if you've got the tax code, bank details, and things like that. It gives them a bit of security that, oh, they are intending to pay me, this is good. Uh they've got the details. When are you going to pay me? How's it going to happen? And again, um a lot of farms use lots of WhatsApp groups to make things happen on farm to keep communication going. So add them on so that they know, and this group's for explain this WhatsApp group is for feeding, this one's for milking, this one's for the machinery, whatever it is on your farm, make sure they're included and do an invite, you know, just welcome Bob onto the WhatsApp. It's just started today. His role is uh make him feel welcome when you see him. Um, and and we look forward to working with him.

Sarah Bolt 17:34

So you've just mentioned health and safety there, Becky. I think it's an ideal opportunity to sort of um provide staff with the the correct PPE and everything else that they need for the role, isn't it? And and maybe even a staff uniform.

Becky Miles 17:48

Yes, yeah, and so many people are going high vis now, which is fantastic. I'm so pro that. And you know, badged or branded so that you feel part of the team, instantly you put it on. And ideally, two at least two two jackets and whatnot, so you can have one in the wash and and one clean.

Setting Culture And High-Vis Standards

Andrew Jones 18:02

I I think I mentioned it with the podcast we did with uh Eric last year. Was it last year? Yeah, it must have been talking about silage. How high viz only now seems to really be kicking in over here, as I mean, I mentioned at the time, my time in Oz, most tradies had a high-viz shirt on. And I mean, we're not uh you know, so bottom half was blue, but top half was either yellow or orange. You just don't see that over here in the same way. And I know I brought the staff sort of a jacket that was half uh yellow, blue, and then with some silver stripes on it. And I remember my two IC as soon as I had the one to sort of try myself was just like, oh, I could see you halfway not across the farm, but you know, several paddocks away in that. And it just little things like that again make the difference. That I don't know, it to me it just feels we're a little bit behind compared to some other parts of the world in terms of you know you wearing high viz and ensuring everybody has high viz um on farm to be to be seen.

Becky Miles 18:56

I I have to say it's it's a lot, lot better. Um we've just done some work with a particular milk pool, and uh every farm I went to had they all had branded high viz. It was brilliant.

Andrew Jones 19:05

Yeah, oh don't get me wrong, it's getting better, but you know, having that's 25 years ago, you'd see certainly all tradies, and you're starting to see more or farms, sort of like me's, that they uh ensure they have a high viz everyone has a high viz shirt on. Um so they can be.

Becky Miles 19:19

And I think the products have improved. You know, you there's there's lots of different ones. You can have summer ones, you can have winter ones, so it's appropriate um for what the the the tasks they have to do. Whereas before it was quite bulky and yeah, didn't it wasn't really fit for purpose.

Sarah Bolt 19:33

And it's I guess it's not just it's not just a uniform and and coats, it's you know, where's the helmet that goes with the the ATV and all of those sorts of things?

Andrew Jones 19:43

Well appropriate groups as well.

Becky Miles 19:45

Yeah, absolutely. And that's about setting the culture from day one. This is the way we do things here, and it comes from the top, it comes from leadership. And if you're not doing it, why would you expect the rest of the team to do it? It's so important. We use I'm sure Paul has mentioned it to you before, the accountability ladder. So if you imagine a ladder, okay, we've not mentioned it before. Great. Fresh meat. Here we go. Buckle up. So imagine a ladder. I don't either. You will after I've spoken about it. So imagine a ladder upright and halfway up there's a red line horizontally going across. When people aren't performing, they are below the line and they are giving victim behavior statements. So they will wait and hope that no one notices they did something wrong or broke something. They will make excuses like I can't, or only did that because, or they'll blame others. Oh, I think John did that, wasn't me, or did or in denials that I don't know. We need everybody to be above the red line, so the top end of the ladder and the way that they will express themselves or act, their behaviours, will be accountable ones. So acknowledge reality. I made a mistake, I broke something, but I broke the broom and I went and found a spare handle and I fixed it.

Andrew Jones 21:05

Oh, is that triggers broom, by the way?

Becky Miles 21:07

Trigger's broom, yeah. How many years did trigger have that broom? So they accept and own when they've made a mistake. They find solutions and they make things happen. But you the culture has to be that they've everyone feels uh in a psychologically safe and trusted place that they can own up, they can ask questions because if that's not there and that's set by the leadership, it's never gonna happen. So it's a really powerful tool.

Accountability Ladder Explained

Andrew Jones 21:38

Completely you want everybody to uh have ownership of what they're doing, don't you? And that's not that's not just physically doing the job, it's as you say, the I'm not gonna say it, yeah, admitting mistakes. But I think the best way to say we are all human. Yeah, yeah, and and know that they can safely admit mistakes. Yeah, I'm sure whoever it is is probably gonna oh they're crying out loud. But you know, ultimately it's still like, okay, it happened, let's move on. We've just got to deal with it.

Becky Miles 22:07

Yeah. So if everybody has the time, the tools, the skills, and the knowledge, they're out of excuses for not performing their tasks. So it's four things. Time, skill. Time, have they got the time? Have you given them enough time? Have they got the tools, the physical resources, have they got the skills, and have they got the knowledge? Then they're out of excuses to perform those victim behaviours.

Andrew Jones 22:34

Yeah, so for example, you've only given me 20 minutes to do a job that's really taken out, or I had didn't have the appropriate tools, so it's taken me longer, and I've ended up misusing another tool and breaking it because it's not there to use it. Yeah, exactly. Or you've given me a I've can't remember what the third one is, but the fourth one is basically you're not um uh you've not given them the skills to know what they should be doing to fix that water pipe or whatever it happens to be.

Sarah Bolt 22:59

Exactly that. So we haven't invested in them, have we? So there's there's farmers that are perhaps listening to this now and thinking, I really like the sound of that, and and this this culture thing might be something new to them. It might not be something that they've come across before. How do you start thinking about what your farm culture is or how you want that your farm culture to be? How do you go about sort of thinking about that and actually getting that in in place on farm?

Becky Miles 23:26

Oh, we're gonna go really deep now, or I was expecting to go this deep today. That's okay. So most big most businesses um would have a vision, mission, and values statements that they've worked through to find out what's important to them. And these are the values that we're going to live by and work by. Uh, and we can definitely help people pull those together.

Andrew Jones 23:46

Would you like to explain those three things in a little bit more detail?

Becky Miles 23:49

You were asking about what vi the vision statement, the mission statement and the values are. So a vision statement is what the organization desires to achieve. So it might be healthy nutritional food, if you're farming, for example. A mission statement shows the direction and strategy of the business. Um it sets a course which impacts your thinking, behaviors and actions, but also those of your staff and customers. And your values are um we give people a sheet of lots of words, and they will circle all the words that are they ring to their personal values. And then we'll get them to do it for the business. And then you can see where the overlap is, and then you can have your core business values, because there will probably like trust and integrity will probably be words that honesty. So let's give you a couple of examples of mission statements and see if you can work out who they are. Um to be Europe's leading low-cost airline by offering low fares, excellent customer service, and on-time flights.

Andrew Jones 24:50

I guess that's probably Ryanair.

Becky Miles 24:53

It is more easy to oh, I was gonna do it. Yeah, it's Ryanair. Yeah, okay. Here's another one. To respond quickly around the world, adapting and overcoming challenges.

Andrew Jones 25:04

No idea.

Becky Miles 25:07

So it's military, it's the Marines.

Andrew Jones 25:10

Okay.

Becky Miles 25:11

Yeah. So you can see how it fits when you know who it is. And okay, and here's some vision statements. Uh so um here's one. To make people happy. Who does that belong to? It's an international organization.

Sarah Bolt 25:30

It's Disney. Oh, of course it is. I was thinking of holidays and that kind of thing, but I didn't get as far as Disney. Yeah.

Becky Miles 25:37

Yeah. Okay. Uh to provide access to the world's information in one click.

Andrew Jones 25:43

Google.

Becky Miles 25:44

Is that Google? Yeah, it is Google, yeah. You see, I ended on a good note, didn't I? So you can see where if they fit, it really works, doesn't it? And then if you live by your vision, your mission, and your values, that starts setting the culture. So, but we are getting a lot of farms you using those now.

Andrew Jones 26:02

Well, say as soon as you say culture, there's uh uh somebody I can think of straight away that they've very much got a culture in terms of um uh behavior around the animals and things like that, haven't they?

Vision, Mission, Values On Farm

Becky Miles 26:13

Yeah, yeah. And some places, some farms you'll go to you and you'll say, What's your culture? So, well, well we all get on, don't we? That's that's that's good. Yep, it's more than that. It's more than that. It's our behaviors, and it starts from the top down. If we don't wear our hive is, if we don't work the way we want our team to work, it's never gonna happen. And it's n and and when things aren't going quite right, it's having the confidence and the ability to address conflict and give feedback when needed. So I'll I'll come into come into that in a moment. But I wanted to go back to um when we start setting the culture, and we need to feel that we can ask questions. People want to ask us questions, we need to find out about our team. Um we need to be uh using open questions because closed questions, uh, are you all right? That's a yes-no answer. We want more than a yes-no answer. So if we think of a rugby um uh goalpost, so you've got the two uprights and then the horizontal bar, and then imagine on the bar there are some bums or boobies, or they are actually W's, but it might sit better in your memory if you think about them as bums or boobies. And there's five of them sitting on that horizontal bar on the rugby post. So the H is how, that's the H, that's the rugby posts forming that H. And then sitting on there are the W's of who, what, why, where, when. So if you can picture that. Yeah, yeah, I can see you visualizing it. It's cementing.

Andrew Jones 27:46

That's actually quite a good way of trying to remember it, because otherwise I'd never really thought of a way to do it. And it's like, well, that's the how, the why, what, where, why. I can't remember what they are now. But anyway.

Sarah Bolt 27:54

How, what, when, where, why.

Becky Miles 27:55

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And that if you ask a question that starts with how, who, what, where, why, you're always going to get more than a yes-no answer. And that's what we want. Because if we've got issues on farm, people aren't if you know that we've got them started on farm and things aren't going quite right, we want to find out why. Is there something going on at home? Is there something going on at work? Is it something I've done? Is it something you don't understand? Us going up to and saying, is everything all right? We're going to say yes or no. And they're probably going to say yes because they don't want to admit they're getting things wrong or don't understand.

Andrew Jones 28:28

Come on, there's nothing wrong with going, all right.

Becky Miles 28:35

And and in farming, that's where we're struggling at the moment because we don't do the don't do much of the soft, fluffy stuff. People might refer to it. Actually delving a bit deeper and finding out really what's going on. Finding out the why, being in the inner toddler and keeping why, why, why? Why is it not working? Tell me more. Explain why you're struggling with XYZ.

Andrew Jones 28:57

But that that I'm just going to go from my own personal experience. That can sometimes be the, how do I put it, frustrating part, if that's the right way to put it. Probably was a bit. Like when I took over managing staff, or I took, you know, uh, I uh when I was still in Victoria, all of a sudden I went from only from what I expected to be able to do a day to only probably doing half of what I expected to do a day, because the other half was spent managing people and asking those questions. And me personally, I get frustrated because I well, I wanted to get this done today, but I haven't been able to because I've been running around trying to find out why he isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing, or or this is happening, or that's happening. So it it it does being a manager, you need a change in mindset, don't you? That you you've got to trust the people around you to do what's expected of them to allow you to do the managing because you physically cannot do the amount of work that you expected to be able to do and you were doing before you suddenly started managing people. And that that to me was a big lesson I had to learn.

Becky Miles 30:00

And and so often, not just in farming, NHS, government, when people are really good at their job, they get promoted to managing a team, but they don't get the training in how to manage people. Oh, you're good at that job, so off you go. And now you're being a manager without the skills or the tools or the knowledge, maybe the time, I don't know. And wondering why it's not working.

Andrew Jones 30:25

Yeah, you've got the skills to do the job, but not the skills to manage the people.

Sarah Bolt 30:28

And you're not doing the job anymore because you've got somebody else doing the job for you, you're just managing it. And you were happy before, and I knew what I was doing.

Becky Miles 30:35

Yeah, yeah. So the frustration builds, the team get frustrated because you're not managing them and it's not your fault, and it's not their fault. Ah.

Andrew Jones 30:43

So that's because when I started this business, what's that now? Three and a half, four years ago. Um, it was like, oh, so when are you taking staff on? It's like, no, been there, done that, not doing that again. I'm quite happy, just doing my own thing and working with people around me rather than somebody under me, because it I just don't want the hassle. I just don't want that.

Open Questions That Unlock Truth

Becky Miles 31:03

So understanding that that is a requirement and different skill set is really important. And people fall into it, you know, particularly in family businesses. It started off being the family, and actually they need managing, but that's another story. When we start taking on staff, we didn't realise we needed that skill set. They don't work like the family do, because they're not, it's not the family, they're not seeing the reward of all the effort going in. So why don't they work the same as us? And why why are they being they want time off?

Andrew Jones 31:30

Well, yeah, I mean, I I can think of two examples. I think somebody we all know, I remember him saying, Have we of an industry lost the skills in farming to manage people? Because if you go back, I suppose pre-industrialization, well, pre-industrialization, but sort of pre-tractors, you know, 20s, 30s, 40s, there was a lot more people on farms. So was it people were better at managing, or was it simply, well, that was the only job option, so they just put up with it in a way they wouldn't today? Or like you're saying, they need it. I remember my my ex-wife when I was in Victoria making a comment about I was going, they're not working full-time. She said, Yes, they are. No, they're not, uh, because I'd like to do 80, 100 hours a week, and it's like, no, but they're doing 38 or whatever the the thing was, they are working full-time. And it took a change in my mindset to go, well, actually, I need to look at them differently. And and I know my father used to complain I had too many staff, and it was like, yeah, but they're only allowed to do or there's some of them only want to do 40 hours a week, and that's it. So therefore you're effectively having two people for every one of you, sort of thing.

Becky Miles 32:34

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I think going back, you know, when there were I remember I went on a farm and they had a photo and there were over a hundred people in the photo, and that was a staffed that was a staffed the team. But then, you know, we didn't have terms and conditions or a contract, it was you're lucky to have a job and maybe, you know, something to eat and a roof over your head. Different times.

Sarah Bolt 32:54

So let's go back to our honeymoon. Yeah, bring us on track. Come on, Clara. When we've just started a job and we're all we're all happy and uh, you know, as an employee, we're all really happy, and as an am as a as an employer, we've got that opportunity to to forge the the future.

Becky Miles 33:12

We have. And so having that induction program, so everyone knows what to expect on day one, week one, and then in the first month, which tasks are we going to be shown? How am I going to how are you going to be trained? How are we going to check that you're progressing? We're going to have check-ins to make sure everything's working okay. You're going to be assigned somebody as your mentor. It might be me, it might be somebody else. And you're going to be introduced to them on day one. So you know who it is and where to find them, and you've got their number, so you can contact them if you need to. Um, and we're setting ourselves up to succeed. So that by the end of the probation period, and that's up to you how long that is, um you should be in a really good position. They will know a lot more about you and uh what you're what you're like on a bad day and what they're like on a bad day, and also on a good day.

Andrew Jones 34:00

What sort of probation period would you recommend? Most people I think are about three months, aren't they?

Becky Miles 34:04

Yeah, three months, six months, and you can always as you can always extend it as long as you extend it before the end of the original probation period. So I think you can go up to nine percent.

Andrew Jones 34:13

And and make sure you tell them that you're doing that. Because I've certainly had had an experience where I was told nothing, and then we went past what was my three months, and they went, oh no, we're we're letting you go. And um uh and I'm like, Yeah, but you've got to give me a month's notice. Oh no, you're in your probation period still. No, you're not. We've rolled past it, it's defaulted, and they went, no, tough. And and that was it. Well, I I couldn't do anything about it. I I'll say it's a very big, well-known company. And um uh they basically said, and I said, Well, you've not given me any kind of notice that I've rolled over my probation, but they they wouldn't I I appealed against it internally, but they just wouldn't go with it. And it's like, oh well, it is what it is.

Shifting From Doer To Manager

Becky Miles 34:59

No, not good. So if you've got a probation period, you should have a formal review before the probation period ends, and that's either to say we're extending it because we haven't quite got you trained to where you need to be, or for whatever the reason is, or actually we may have because you're being so great, we want to give you more responsibilities, but we want to make sure you're happy with those. So we need to sit down, review how things have gone, and that's a two-way conversation. How am I being as a manager and employer, and how are you being as an employee? And how can we help each other make things better going forwards if we need to? Um so then then we know where we are. Now you're employed, hopefully, once you finish the employment period. That's not the end of managing an employee. This is the beginning. We've got them invested, we've gonna get some really good return on that investment. Now they understand you, you understand them. How do we keep them invested to continue in that frame of mind? What can we do? Because we're navigating constant change, you know, milk price, grain price, the weather. Um, they're only too aware of this, and how we express that when we're working with them or stomping around the farm, effing and Jeffing about the milk price and things aren't going well. How we manage ourselves and how we expect them to manage, we've got to set that up.

Andrew Jones 36:18

I I would say from experience it's lonely at the top in that regard, because I know from my own experience, I uh when I was in Victoria, one the first two IC I had, how do I put it overshared sometimes, maybe, and then it bit me later on because I wouldn't say I was overly friendly, but I still probably shared one or two things I shouldn't have that were going on elsewhere. And it yeah, it it you've almost you've got to you want to be mates, don't get me wrong, but you want to you've got to um put a you do still have to maintain that barrier between you and your employee because you are you're their employer. So you've got to you've got to, you know, you get an on a farm, particularly it's usually a small team, you work closely together uh when you do work together, um uh but you so you still need to maintain some kind of barrier between you because ultimately you are still their employer.

Becky Miles 37:19

Yeah, so that's about creating that mutual respect, isn't it? Them as an employee and you as the employer and and not fudging the lines uh as best we can. So, yeah, how do we keep them engaged? So uh I think keeping that contact, so having regular staff get-togethers and meetings, and why? Because we're all running on so on social media and WhatsApp. How often do we actually see our staff and talk to them when we're on farm during the day? We're relying on that gig that gadget in our pocket, but we're human beings and we need interaction. So having regular get-togethers, whether it's you bacon bap and get everyone together, breaks the barriers down, keeps everyone informed and connected, opportunity for feedback from everybody. Oh, you really let dropped me in it the other day when you didn't uh you didn't shut the gate and you knew I was moving the stock, or you know, little things that have happened, let's talk it out, let's get over it. And the good stuff. And the good stuff, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Jones 38:15

Before WhatsApp. Um uh wonderful thing that it is for that. But yeah, just having to me, one of the biggest things was having that weekly staff meeting. So every Tuesday morning after breakfast, when all the staff were on farm at 10 o'clock, we had a staff meeting. And and it and okay, WhatsApp's easy now that you send out a message, everybody sees it. But it was like, for example, that week, right, the guys are coming in to spread their fertilizer. They were terrible for they never were not terrible, they didn't shut gates behind them, um, because it was cheaper to get a contractor to do it than do it yourself. And uh so you just go, right, guys, right, fertilizer guys are in. So when you get the chaos this afternoon, you will have to make sure every gate is shut and know that everybody was very aware of that. Um, or whatever it happened to be, that weekly staff meeting just made such a difference.

Becky Miles 39:02

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, shake it all off, exactly. And we can talk about what the plans are for the week, what's going well, and I would recommend getting the staff to have a go in chair chairing an inverted commaster meeting, because they'll then then they'll appreciate that it's quite hard work sometimes, keeping everybody on board.

Induction Plans And Probation

Andrew Jones 39:20

And and it's also maybe keeping them informed. Like I know with mine, uh they always wanted to see what the results were. So not just what the milk ticket was, but what the fat and protein were. And and and and I had to change, I've mentioned the previous one that I'd started having to put it converting into kilos because I like kiwis and they want to know how many kilos of milk solids we'd sold every day. Some people want that, and it's sometimes you go on farm and say, Oh, I never see, you know, what are your fat and protein? I don't know, I never see that. Because it's just, you know, it's WhatsApp to the boss, basically, or you know, message to the boss. But just maybe sharing that kind of information weekly, right? So the last week this has gone, well, we've had a cell count, or we've had a mastitis problem. Oh, right, okay, we've had to do this, or whatever it happened. To be, it's just getting everybody around the table at once to have those to exchange information, isn't it? Sometimes that everybody knows what's going on.

Sarah Bolt 40:08

What are those KPIs for the farm and how well are we doing? Have we got some green ambers or reds? What what what are they? And uh how are we going to do do things differently if we're not all in the green? Yeah, and sharing those successes.

Becky Miles 40:21

Great, you our milk solid, you know, our butterfat's gone up, and that's that's everybody's done that has done that because we've fed the cows, we've looked after the cows, we've milked the cows, we everybody has had input. So it's team effort and it makes a difference to our milk price. And keeping people informed gives them pride. We're we're making we're achieving. We're doing really well. We know when we're achieving, rather than just being kept in the dark all the time. So, yeah, definitely. And uh and there's no excuses. If there's busy times of the year, then we don't stop having our team meetings. We'll take if we're carving, we'll go and have it outside the carving pen, so whoever's carving the cows can still be involved. If it's grain harvest, we'll take it to the machinery shed while they're greasing up so everyone's still involved, it still happens. Because if you stop, it's really hard to restart.

Andrew Jones 41:06

And it's also just keeping the momentum. It's also appreciation. I mean, we're talking about there just a pure staff meeting, but I guess another example of that in terms of let's call it loosely a staff meeting, milk recording. Everybody used to hate milk recording. And so, because of you know the extra time and effort it takes to clean everything afterwards and stuff and whatever. But I was used to then again, I'm using my time in Victoria, we had six staff. It was after milk recording that morning, we'd take them to the local truck stop, everybody have breakfast. You know, we'd be there for a good hour, sometimes an hour and a half, just relaxed, everybody just having a bit of a laugh, and before we then went back to do it. But I it was appreciated the fact that we went and brought them all breakfast, uh uh to appreciate the fact that they put that extra effort in to do the milk recording, and and it just gave everyone a bit of time to de stress and and and move forward.

Becky Miles 42:01

Yeah, that's a fabulous example. It's really good. Yeah, take the take them off the farm. Lovely, great. We can get away from the farm, we can talk to each other like human beings, we can reset, we can recharge and go back and carry on and feel appreciated.

Andrew Jones 42:15

It worked it worked it worked really well. It was well worth doing. Well worth doing.

Becky Miles 42:19

Yeah, yeah, fantastic, really good example. Um and the other thing I wanted to c cover was uh people really veer away from giving feedback or dealing with conflict, um, particularly if you're a certain personality type. So should we deal with conflict?

Andrew Jones 42:35

It needs to be dealt with.

Becky Miles 42:37

Because what happens if we don't deal with it?

Andrew Jones 42:38

Just fest us.

Becky Miles 42:40

Yeah, it gets worse and worse and worse and grows into a much bigger problem. So we know that we need to deal with it. So it's how we deal with it. And what can stress and conflict do to us physically? How do we feel? What are the signs that we're in stress or conflict?

Andrew Jones 42:54

Don't sleep very well.

Becky Miles 42:56

Don't sleep, yeah.

Sarah Bolt 42:58

Probably getting angry about things probably a bit quicker than we would have got a shorter fuse.

Becky Miles 43:02

It's probably a shorter fuse, yeah, exactly. We can get sweaty, we can have a stomachache, headaches, um, go red in the face, a heart rate gets up, and it's not good for us. So it it's much better to actually deal with the situation. So the first thing to do is to understand the personalities of the people that we need to speak to about the conflict. Now, whether we've got conflict with someone or there's a couple of members of our team have got conflict and we need to deal with both of them, understanding their personality and how they react when they are in conflict. So we become extremes of ourselves, the negative part of ourselves when we are in conflict. So if we're a reactive person, we're going to go off the scale. The heat and intensity uh what we say and how we say it, and the frequency will just elevate. So it's obvious. So that's a sort of extrovert type.

Andrew Jones 43:50

Just thinking of myself, what's the V under the Vita again? I forget.

Becky Miles 43:54

Vita, so it's visionary.

Andrew Jones 43:56

Visionary, right, yeah. So so yeah.

Becky Miles 43:57

Yeah, so the very direct V.

Boundaries, Respect And Engagement

Andrew Jones 43:59

I I get very usually I'm not I'm not like you normally I say I'm just over on three on my personality on the Vita one. So you my visionary is usually sort of 26, 27, I can't remember where it is. I've got it here somewhere. But yeah, when I start to get short, I can see myself just voof and I just go right up that visionary scale and get really snappy when I do. And I suppose the kids see it probably more than anything. But um, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, that's coming out on me. I'm getting quite short with people because I'm tired, or whatever it is. As you say, it as you say, you've just said it, it's an extreme. I've never thought it like that, but that's what it is. It's like it's it's that part of you is dominating rather than usually just bubbling along like it normally is.

Becky Miles 44:39

So it overrides. So if you're uh an investigator, so you're heavy into detail, um, then you're going to become even more critical, probably, and um possibly more introverted. Our team makers, who are normally happy, jolly, supportive people, will just hide, hide away, become very quiet. And our adventurers, it's gonna be hard to tell sometimes because they're so open. We'll probably they'll probably tell us.

Sarah Bolt 45:05

They've probably already uh had a said about the situation at the time it happened from the experience.

Becky Miles 45:10

Yeah, it's probably because I'm done. Yeah, so said about it at the time, moved on. Yeah, but the other person is still still stewing about it. So if we understand the personality of the people we're dealing with when we're gonna talk about conflict, um don't do it at immediately at the time when everyone's in the heat at the moment. Say, well, we're gonna talk about this, but we're gonna go away and have 10 minutes or have a cup of tea and just everyone calm down.

Andrew Jones 45:32

The biggest problem with that sometimes, I agree with you, you don't want to do it when you're all hot and bothered, you want to calm down, is it becomes right, we'll do with it later, and then later just gets left and left.

Becky Miles 45:43

Uh-uh. It mustn't. It must be. I know it mustn't.

Andrew Jones 45:46

But I'm just saying I know I know that does happen.

Becky Miles 45:49

It's it's easier to park it, isn't it, and not deal with it. But if we say we're gonna do it, we must do it. Um so yeah, let everyone call off, take them and then meet them somewhere privately so they can't be overheard. Don't do it in front of the rest of the team. Just calmly, have a crew have a cupper, and remember to use those open questions. So think of your rugby, rugby posts and all the W's, use those open questions. Uh so t tell tell me what was happening today. How are you feeling at the moment? What was the situation? And then we can unpick what really was the cause and the real issue rather than well, it's him, he's always kicking off, isn't he? That's not the real reason. We will need to understand the why. And it may be they're feeling undermined, um, they're not being appreciated, something's going on at home, and they've just brought the baggage with them to work. And unless we ask, we're never gonna know. We must never assume. So we do it to both people and then bring them back together and say, right, I've had a conversation with both of you, uh, and it it it appears that Bob's having a really bad time at home, his mum's really ill, whatever it is, and just explain. So can we acknowledge we've got differences? Can we just come back together?

Andrew Jones 46:56

What happens if you're the person they have a problem with because they might be might not be comfortable telling you that? What's the best thing to do there? What would you recommend?

Becky Miles 47:05

Well, still try because you're the leader, so you need to be you should be able to do this as the leader. Yeah, yeah. Use those be in a calm zone, using those open questions, but be prepared to receive it back. Because if you have done something wrong or you've not explained something, or you've dropped them in it, you need to receive it and acknowledge it. That's accountability. Being accountable for our actions. So if we've if we've dropped them in it, or we've done something wrong, or we've not provided the tools, the time, the resources, whatever, then we need to own it. And then we can say, well, we're gonna acknowledge it and say what we're gonna do differently and do it.

Sarah Bolt 47:44

Walk the walk as well as talk.

Becky Miles 47:46

That's a really good thing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. So please be brave, please deal with conflict uh and giving feedback appropriate at the appropriate time. Don't let it fess you.

Meetings, KPIs And Recognition

Andrew Jones 47:56

But you've tried that. What would you recommend actually get someone else in to talk to them instead? Yeah, you can facilitate. That's the word you like, isn't it, Sarah?

Becky Miles 48:07

Yes, yeah, yes, facilitate that discussion. Yeah, someone neutral. Yeah, someone that that you both respect and trust is ideal. Maybe they've got a mentor on the farm and then it it's appropriate for them to come in and deal with it.

Andrew Jones 48:22

But it uh but you yeah, it doesn't necessarily have to be someone on farm, does it, if it if it's gonna help moving forward? I mean, I suppose ultimately that's one of the things that real success do, I'm guessing. But uh there are others that are in the world. Yeah, we do.

Becky Miles 48:34

Yeah, other people are available. Yes. Yeah. Uh I would just be aware of using your consultant or your accountant or your solicitor for situations like that, because the perception might be from the employee that you've stitched them up and it's only going to go one way.

Andrew Jones 48:50

Because they they think you're gonna side on the side of the employer because they don't want to keep working. That's what their business is.

Becky Miles 48:57

Yeah, yeah. Um and then the other thing we should do is we've taken people on, we should have a formal review with them every year. And I can fear I can hear people, oh really? It's so important, it's so valuable. We always learn so much when we do reviews, and you're giving that put so you put aside an hour once a year. It's not a lot to ask for one person. Sit down in a cool, calm environment. Um, we use um sheets where the employee fills in a sheet and the employer fills in a sheet about what's going well, what's not going so well, and what they'd like to happen differently. And we swap those 24 hours before the review. So everybody knows what's coming.

Andrew Jones 49:39

It's it's it's not just a a review in the sense of telling them what is or isn't, but it's also trying to find out what their expectations are, what their desires are to grow with themselves and within the business, whether that includes some training or I particularly want to, I don't know, trim feet. Can I go on a foot trimming course or whatever it happens to be?

Becky Miles 50:00

Yeah, exactly. I want to go on a welding course. Fantastic, because nobody on the farm can weld, will do that. So, yes, we want to find out what's going well, what's not going well, and that's feedback for us as well as feedback for them. And what are we going to do going forwards?

Andrew Jones 50:13

If we say we're going to I was going to say, was it uh Branson says? Um, because people are always afraid to train because then they spent the money and the staff member goes on, isn't it? But was it was it something along the lines of train train them? I can't remember what it is, but basically something along the lines of train them to stay. Oh, I can't remember what it is, but basically train them whatever you do, because whether they stay or go.

Sarah Bolt 50:37

You end up with a if you if you don't train them, you end up with an untrained person that stays, is I think all going to be a little bit more.

Andrew Jones 50:46

Train them as if uh as if they're gonna stay and then hope I can't remember what it is as a particular phrase.

Becky Miles 50:53

So I so I'll come back to farmers who say I don't want you know if I train them, you know, spent all the money and then they'll leave. But what if you tr don't train them and they stay?

Andrew Jones 51:00

I th that's I kind of think what he's trying to say, and I've just said it very badly.

Becky Miles 51:05

That's all right. We're only human, but we're owning it. We're taking accountability for our actions. Yeah, exactly. If you don't train them and they stay, what are you stuck with? An untrained person that is not as much use as a trained person, and then they're not as invested because you haven't invested in them.

Andrew Jones 51:22

So if we're gonna I was gonna say, I'd just think of someone I can think of. Um I think they use your services while I think about it. Uh and they'll do the training and people are worried about the cost. But is it something like if the staff member leaves within six months, they've got to pay those training costs back, or or there's there's some agreement along those lines.

Becky Miles 51:40

Yeah, and you can do that. It's perfectly fine. So it it's a it's gonna be a big package, maybe it's five, you know, a couple of K and that's a big investment for the business. We're happy to do that for you. But if you leave in six months, you're gonna pay half of it back, or you have an agreement with them and uh or you don't pay it back, we start taking out of your salary. Whatever you can form your own agreement, but then it's fair, isn't it?

Sarah Bolt 52:01

And that's quite normal in a lot of businesses, isn't it? That you know it's it's fair, it's fair for both parties then.

Becky Miles 52:07

Yeah, and then you get a really well-trained employee. It's great advantage. You've got the return on investment for all the people that are worried about the money.

Andrew Jones 52:19

Well, exactly. If you've got but you know I guess I do the chaos signals training. If you've got people that are trained and understand those cows better and can handle those cows better, it's a win-win for everybody.

Becky Miles 52:31

Yeah. And and we're coming into a time, you know, people are feeling the pinch, milk price is dropping, grain price not being a great year for any sector. And what can historically happens is the first thing when we look at the budget, well, we'll slash the training. What do we just talk about? If we don't train people, what have we got? People that are less invested, less motivated in our business, therefore our efficiency and productivity is going to fall.

Sarah Bolt 52:55

What can we actually afford to lose? Not the motivation, not our team motivation, definitely. So how can we keep our we we've sort of moved on to that motivation bit? How do we keep other ways of keeping our staff motivated? We've talked about training. What other ways can we keep our staff motivated?

Conflict: Cool Down And Resolve

Becky Miles 53:11

So that generally things will come out of the review as to what they want. Do they need a different work-life balance? Can we adjust their rotor to fit in with what they w want to do out of hours? You know, is there a uh football club they belong to and they want to go and watch them or they want to go and watch their kids playing football on a Wednesday afternoon, whatever that might be? It may be can they work a 40-hour week? Can we make the rotors work so that everyone gets that that amount of time? It may be just saying thank you when you've done a good job being appreciated, that doesn't cost anything. But how often does it happen? I was with a uh a big arable team yesterday, and and the boss, well, I was with the management team, and the boss said, I'm spending more and more time in the office, I'm spending less and less time out there appreciating what they're doing. I'm being less and less visible. And he's aware now, and he's gonna he's gonna factor that into his day to make sure he goes down the yard and sees them and become visible safely. And it might be just five minutes. Yeah, doesn't matter.

Andrew Jones 54:12

Well doesn't matter. I can't remember what it said to me, it said, well, not everybody won't like that, but I know as a student, uh the first job I ever had off home as a student, it was the manager who made sure he came and saw everybody every morning and just said hello, everything all right, doing whatever now someone said to me, but if they're a visionary, they might not like that. Well, yeah, fair, fair enough. It might be too fluffy for them. But um it was the fact that it was like he made engaged, and I guess it's something I took on board when I did. I made sure every morning I'd make sure I'd saw everybody at least hello, so I knew they were there, not they just turned up, you didn't see them for the rest of the day, you at least had seen them, everything all right, and move forward. And just as you say, little things like that again can make the difference, just to at least acknowledge that they're there every day.

Becky Miles 54:56

And it helps us pick up when people aren't their 100% selves. If we'd see them every day, well, they're a bit down uh they're fine yesterday, what's going on? You can start casting some questions and check in. How's everything at home? You know, that's your golden opportunism.

Andrew Jones 55:10

And there's that there's the rabbit hole that you don't want to go down to sometimes, as I say, and you get frustrated as a manager, oh, okay. You've got to accept it. That's your role is to be that listening post.

Becky Miles 55:22

Yep, the caring, nurturing, supporting. Exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. So keeping our team fine. We know all of our individuals, once you've had the reviews, what floats their boat, what motivates them, we can put that into action because everybody has different motivators. Money is not the primary motivator. And when we facilitate reviews, we make sure that money is not part of the discussion. That's the different it can be you do it at the year end. Tell everyone you're going to decide at end of year or when the accounts come in, we'll let you know if there's going to be an increase in pay or not.

Andrew Jones 55:56

Everybody thinks it's money, is is why they leave. And more often than not, it it's not. I mean, I uh on LinkedIn I remember seeing a recruiter. It was a comment along the lines of, you know, I had a phone call from somebody and they wanted to move. I lined up a new job for them, and not in farming, but you know, whatever industry it was. I lined up a new job for them. They told their existing job they were leaving, they counted, oh, we'll match whatever the salary was because they managed to get a salary uplift in there. So they they they match it. He said, A year later, I'm getting the same phone call from the same person because it's not about the money, it's about the culture. The money might have improved, but the culture hasn't changed, and they they've only stayed short term. And he said, I just get so frustrated. Why don't people realize they're moving because of the culture? That's why they've decided to move. So if they're going to move, move, because he said otherwise, I'm just repeating this cycle again and again and again with some people because they go, I've just had enough, I can't deal with it. I want to move. Oh, or they've suddenly offered me an extra 10k or whatever it happens to be. Oh, I'm staying where I am. Uh and he said, year later, here we go again. Uh and it is, and people need to res, it's not about money.

Becky Miles 57:07

It's not, and it's a huge cost to any business if somebody leaves. Huge cost.

Andrew Jones 57:12

Because you've got to spend the next you've got to spend the time then retraining the next person basically to do the same job, not just in terms of money, but in terms of time, your time when you should be doing other things.

Sarah Bolt 57:22

It's also finding somebody as well in a in a sort of short labour supply uh yeah industry.

Becky Miles 57:29

From that review, you know what people like, you know what motivates them. It's not money, it's how they're treated, what the culture is, what their working conditions are are the primary. They're the primary reasons for what you need to focus on. And saying thank you. Good job. Thanks everybody. Really appreciate it. Makes it sound simple.

Sarah Bolt 57:51

It is really.

Reviews, Training And Retention

Becky Miles 57:55

Yeah, what would you like to happen to you? Definitely. It's treat other people how you like to be treated yourself, isn't it? How they want to be treated. Remember with the Vita how their personality, how they want to be treated. Yeah. It's just a refresher.

Andrew Jones 58:11

I really do think that does work because when I uh uh was previously employed and it was I found out one of my colleagues was was the visionary, and uh instead of being all all uh lovely and fluffy with uh bless her, she's no longer with us, uh it was suddenly s a lot shorter, straight to the much more straight to the point with her, and uh it works so much better.

Becky Miles 58:35

Yeah. So the pick up you pick up the vice, the the clues as to what the personality is, work with it. So much easier. They'll be happier.

Andrew Jones 58:44

Yeah, exactly. It works so much once once I understood, because we've both done the Vita test, once I understood what a personality was, it works so much better.

Becky Miles 58:54

Yeah. So everybody, it's it's January, it's a new year, a bit of a refresh. Think about those personalities on your farm, how you can support them, and if you're recruiting, follow the golden rules and make the most of that honeymoon period.

Andrew Jones 59:07

And so lot longer term, we've talked about a yearly review, but I mean some people are on, you know, can be in a job 10, 20 years. What what are your recommendations for, you know? Uh my nephew's just changed job recently, and he's just saying he he likes the fact that where he's going, the people have been, if they're they're not that they're still there, even if it's in a slightly different position, they're still there after 10, 20 years. He said, I look at that as a good thing. So what do we need to do to ensure that people are aware of that? Uh you know, that um they want to stay longer term ultimately, if if if the if you and they fit and they that you're you're achieving what they want to achieve as much as you're achieving what you want to achieve, what do we do to keep people in uh engaged for that time?

Becky Miles 59:54

Engaged, yeah, motivating. So keeping that connection, isn't it? So those those regular meetings, those regular changes. Check-ins, we're human beings, we need contact. And if we're not making contact, we're not checking in on how people really are and how they're performing, or g and giving them feedback and receiving feedback. We need to do that. So we need to be in that culture of psychological safety and trust where we can do that. Because if it isn't there, it's utterly poisonous and it'll never work. And and we're living in a world where people don't stay in jobs forever now. You're not a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, and that's it. Movement is um it's frequent.

Sarah Bolt 1:00:33

It's inevitable, isn't it?

Becky Miles 1:00:35

If Yeah.

Sarah Bolt 1:00:36

And the world has opened up. And make sure it's people leaving for the right reasons rather than people leaving for the wrong reasons. I think is probably the uh the answer there.

Andrew Jones 1:00:45

I suppose like you say now, I I often say to people, now it used to be in case like for a dairyman, you needed to just have a house. As long as you had a house, you'd get a dairyman. It's not that anymore, it's about the culture, but I was also gonna say it's about your facilities around you as well. Who who wants to milk? You know, I'm not trying to have a go at anyone else, but in a dark parlour, and that you do still see some of them that are built probably older than me, older than all of us, to be honest with you, that people are still milking in. And and you're like, but people don't want to be here when they could go to somewhere that's light, airy, bright. It makes such a difference.

Becky Miles 1:01:25

I remember when I was working for AHDB down in Cornwall and I went to see this farmer, and I said I was thinking of moving down there, and he said, Oh, would you like to do some re relief milking? I said, Well, I suppose I could think about it. I said, I'll show you the parlour. There was one single light bulb for the whole building. I mean, you could hardly see your hand in front of your face. It was awful. I mean there's a bit from a cow. Oh I can't see it, it's not there, is it?

Sarah Bolt 1:01:51

Yeah, they're still there. But again, that that fits in with your your four things though, that you said right at the start, because that's effectively your tools, isn't it? That's it.

Becky Miles 1:02:00

Yes. Yeah. If you haven't got the yeah, the resources, I can't see what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah, let alone anything else. Yeah. So yeah, have a look. So you walk around your farm and would you like to work there? Is it fit for purpose? Yeah. And it it's not expense generally not big investments that are required to help make people happy and keep them there.

Andrew Jones 1:02:25

Well, I I'm sort of looking at the time a little bit, Becky, thinking it's it's time to start wrapping it up. So is there anything we haven't c uh covered that you'd like to? Or any any final words of wisdom to anybody?

Motivation Beyond Money

Becky Miles 1:02:36

No, I th I think just just treat your staff, yeah. We look after our crops and our livestock and we react when things aren't right. We should do exactly the same for our people. And make the most of that honeymoon period if you're in a recruitment situation, because that's that's they're gonna remember that for life. I remember when I started jobs, how it worked, what went well, what didn't go well, it's gonna sit with them for a very, very long time. So make the most of it because you're gonna get that return on investment. Have they got the tools, the time, the resources, and the knowledge? Then you can set the culture and off we go.

Andrew Jones 1:03:12

Sarah.

Sarah Bolt 1:03:13

I think you've just laid that out so well with those those four things there that uh it's things that we can go away and look at as to what we've got on our own farms and and actually really just do a uh a bit of a self-review. And I think it's just down to making sure we have got a business strategy that we've shared, and that strategy has got our mission, our vision, and um values. Values. That's the word I was looking for. Thank you, Becky. Um, and has our values because then that is our culture and we know where we're going and we're all on that bus together, um, rather than all trying to go in different directions.

Andrew Jones 1:03:51

Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say through this, it makes I'm listening to myself thinking, God, it sounds like I'm a good manager. I I'm not saying I was a good manager at all, but they were definitely some things that worked really well was the things like I mentioned, like the staff meeting, whatever. But you're right, it is and little things like I said, like don't expect them to turn up at five o'clock in the morning, turn up at 10 o'clock in the morning, uh and as you say, spend the morning then um uh bring them on farm to, as you say, what the uh uh terms and conditions are, what's policy, what's you know, whatever it happens to be. I mean, I know one of the things we had was uh radios for everybody, so they had to sign a piece of paper that basically this was theirs, and if they lost it, it was their responsibility, they had to pay for it, you know, all of these sorts of things um all make a difference, and it and and it's as you say, that spending the time with them, making sure they understand, you know, and like you're saying a yearly review, but during the probation period, you might want to do it at the end of the first week, end of the first month, you know, to make sure they're understanding what's expected of them and vice versa, so that everybody goes, because ultimately staff, as you say, it it's more expensive to lose a staff than it is to keep a staff. So, you know, training them is important, and maybe there's ways to cover it, as you say, that if they leave within a certain time period, they have to pay back a certain percentage of what that that cost is, so that you're not feeling out, but as you say, if you don't train them, well, what are you stuck with? Somebody that's not trained, unskilled, can't do what you expect of them. All these things are important. So again, I suppose it's as we said, this is the start of 2026, as we did last year with Paul, like we've just done with Becky. Think about your stuff. You know, we're we're heading, we're in heading, we're in January, we're in February. They're usually the two biggest hump months of the year, aren't they? When it's the darkest, the coldest, uh, you know, and that's probably when people get a bit more down, um, you know, because we haven't seen the sunlight or whatever it is. Uh, and we especially farming, you go to work in the dark, you come home in the dark, um, you know, like think about your staff.

Becky Miles 1:05:48

You're not selling it, Andrew.

Andrew Jones 1:05:50

Well, no, but I'm just saying that's what I'm trying to say is think about your staff, and you know, what can you do that will make their lives better and their jobs easier? And if you do, it's gonna pay off for you as well. Um big time.

Becky Miles 1:06:05

And I've just I've just remembered a really good piece of research I came across fairly recently, and it said if you've got somebody who's one person that's bringing the team down, they're not performing or they're just really negative, that can cost you 30 to 40 percent productivity across the whole team.

Andrew Jones 1:06:21

Yeah, I can believe that.

Becky Miles 1:06:22

So by managing that conflict and giving the feedback constructively and lifting that person up will bring everybody up.

Andrew Jones 1:06:30

Because it it does. That one person uh can bring everybody down because they're you know, they're thinking, well, if they are not doing what they should be doing, why should I be doing what I should be doing?

Becky Miles 1:06:39

Exactly. And it gets infected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the team becomes infected.

Andrew Jones 1:06:44

Yeah, but um otherwise, yeah, I'd like to thank Becky very much for her time again. And um uh thank you. So otherwise, I guess it's a goodbye from me.

Becky Miles 1:06:53

It's a goodbye from me. And it's a goodbye for me, and thank you again for the opportunity.

Long-Term Engagement And Facilities

Andrew Jones 1:06:57

Thank you, Becky. Thank you for listening to the Tune the Cud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dai industry brought to you from the southwest of England and listened to around the world. Now for the really boring bit, I'm afraid, the legal disclaimer. The information provided during this podcast has been prepared for general information purposes only and does not constitute advice. The information must not be relied upon for any purpose, and no representation or warranty is given to its accuracy, completeness, or otherwise. Any reference to other organizations, businesses, or products during this podcast are not endorsements or recommendations of TuneTheCud Limited. The views of Andrew Jones are personal and may not be the views of Tune the Cud Limited, and the views of Sarah Bolt are personal and may not be the views of Kingsay Farming and Conservation Limited and any affiliated companies. For more information on the podcast and details of services offered by TuneTheCud Limited, visit www.tuneTheCud.com. Thank you and goodbye.