European Dairy Farmers Congress 2026

Numbers make people uncomfortable for a reason: they tell the truth. We’re joined by the EDF UK team to unpack European Dairy Farmers and the EDF Congress heading to Chester on 23 to 25 June, including what it is, who it’s for, and why cost of production benchmarking can turn a good idea into a confident decision.

We talk through the structure of the three day programme at Chester Racecourse, mixing plenary sessions, targeted workshops and tightly run farm visits in one of the UK’s most concentrated dairy regions. The theme “New Challenges, New Opportunities” gives us room to explore what sustainable dairy farming looks like in practice, from the technological revolution of robots, sensors, machine vision and artificial intelligence, to sustainability from the ground up through soil management, forage quality and smarter nutrient use.

You’ll also hear why EDF’s approach stands out: farm visits anchored by real performance figures, workshops that let farmers compare key KPIs like labour efficiency, and the kind of networking that sends you home with at least one “nugget” worth implementing. If you’ve never come across EDF before, this is your route into a Europe wide conversation about efficiency, resilience and adding value in a volatile milk market.

For more information on European Dairy Farmers: European Dairy Farmers – the premier hub for dairy producers across Europe

For more information on the European Dairy Farmers Congress 2026: EDF Congress – European Dairy Farmers 

This was recorded in January 2026, and all information was correct at the time of recording.

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Transcript

Welcome And Spring Turnout

Andrew Jones 0:14

This is the Chewinthe Cud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry, brought to you from the southwest of England and listened to around the world. Hello and welcome to Chewinthe Cud Podcast. My name's Andrew Jones, and with me as always is Sarah Bolt. How are you doing, Sarah?

Sarah Bolt 0:40

I'm keeping really well, thank you, Andrew. How about you?

Andrew Jones 0:42

Yeah, it's lovely to see a bit of sun, isn't it? And not quite so much rain as we've had, and I think there's a few cows out and about.

Sarah Bolt 0:49

Certainly at Bridge Farm, the cows went out on Friday, so yes. And I'm sure they're certainly not the only ones.

Andrew Jones 0:55

No, I certainly know of a few that are around. Um, and as you say, and and uh well for being somewhere today, and quite a few people tell me there's a lot of grass out there. They've gone out to spread a little bit of fertiliser, a little bit of slurry, and there's already a lot of grass out there. But given the the winter we've had, I suppose that's not surprising. We've gone into an autumn going into winter with a lot of grass covers, and then it's just kept growing through through winter, hasn't it? We've only had a couple of days of frost at the most down here.

Sarah Bolt 1:19

As I say, certainly in the south here, we've been very lucky and uh kept the frost off, haven't we?

Andrew Jones 1:24

Yeah, the only downside maybe is um your silages might contain quite a bit of fibre, a bit of lignin, because it's grown through the winter of that older grass. Um but I can see potentially if the weather keeps as it is, um maybe some early cuts of silage, maybe almost to reset the platform and then um get a proper first cut sort of thing. Or a late first cut.

Sarah Bolt 1:45

Start filling those silage pits again.

Why The EDF Congress Matters

Andrew Jones 1:47

Yes, yes, that's definitely something people need to do, start filling those silage pits again. Um but anyway, on to today's topic. Um we are here to talk about the European Dairy Congress.

Sarah Bolt 1:59

And that's here in the UK this year, isn't it, Andrew?

Andrew Jones 2:01

It is. I'm just glad I got it right because I know both of us keep wanting to say European Dairy Conference, but it's Congress.

Sarah Bolt 2:07

It's a Congress.

Andrew Jones 2:08

But yes, I I believe it's not uh been here for a while. Um obviously there's more details available on their website, which we will put in the uh notes for the podcast. Um, but otherwise, I guess the best thing is to listen to our three guests and see what they have to say so you know more about what it is, when it is, and what it's all about. This podcast has been brought to you today by ChewintheCud Limited, who offer completely independent dairy and beef nutrition, our signals advice and training along with ROM's mobility scoring. For more details on these and other services available, please visit our website www.tunethecud.com or email us directly on nutrition at chewinthecud.com. ChewintheCud Limited now offers first aid training from a registered first aid at work trainer and experienced minor injuries practitioner. For more details, please visit our website www.chewinthecud.com or email us directly on training at chewinthecud.com. Hello, I'm Andrew Jones.

Sarah Bolt 3:23

And I'm Sarah Bolt.

Andrew Jones 3:24

And welcome to the ChewitntheCud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry.

Sarah Bolt 3:29

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Sarah Bolt 3:40

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Sarah Bolt 3:50

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Guests And Their Dairy Systems

Andrew Jones 4:18

Enjoy today's episode. Right, hello, and welcome back to Tune the Cud Podcast. Today we are going to talk about the uh European Dairy Farmers Conference. And so we have three guests with us again today for the second time. So I'm hopefully like last time, um, it will all go good and won't be complete chaos. So let's introduce our guests first of all. First of all, we have uh Roger Hildreth, who is EDF UK Chairman. Good morning, Roger. Good morning, Andrew. Good morning. Thank you. And then we have Richard Simpson, who is the EDF UK Secretary as well as Starr, and I'll explain what Star is in a minute. So good morning, Richard. Good morning, and uh yeah, thank you for inviting us. Yeah, well, or maybe Richard can explain Starr. We'll get to that. And then we also have David Jones, he is the EDF UK Council member. Good morning, David. Good morning, all. Good morning. So we are here to talk about um the EDF conference, which uh bookings are now open and is in uh Cheshire uh later this year. Um, but before we do all of that, um Roger, if we can start with you, just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today.

Roger Hildreth 5:38

Uh Roger Hildreth, yes, dairy farmer just outside York, right in the middle of the Vale of York. Um we're currently milking about 130 cows uh at the at this moment. Uh we've been milking through three lily robots for the last 12 months almost. My son has driven this forwards. He's now 33. He's uh certainly in the driving seat in the business. And I am currently chairman of European Dairy Farmers in the UK after being involved with EDF for probably about the last eight years.

Andrew Jones 6:21

Okay, okay, and um Richard, um tell us, I suppose, in your introduction, tell us a little bit about what star means.

Richard Simpson 6:30

Yeah, sure. I mean, uh maybe I just mentioned, you know, firstly, my my day job is uh working for Kingsay. So I head up the Kingsei team and work very closely with uh with Sarah. Um yeah, and I suppose I've always you know had an interest in uh figures, so dairy, cost of production, performance figures, etc. So that really what sort of got me involved with with EDF. Um we'll explain a little bit more about um EDF later, but yeah, I'm one of my roles then with EDF is the EDF STAR. Um so uh STAR is the scientific team for analysis and research. So EDF is is made up of several countries across Europe, um, and each country has uh a council representative, um, so farmer, in our case David, um, and then a star representative. And yeah, I have the the pleasure of uh uh looking after all the figures for the for the UK group and then yeah, supporting, helping organising meetings, discussion groups, etc.

Andrew Jones 7:36

Um, David and yourself.

David Jones 7:39

Hi, yeah, David Jones. Um we're dairy farming in Monmouthshire, South East Wales, with uh 250 cows and four uh robots. So um we put robots in about 21 years ago. So yeah.

Andrew Jones 7:53

Had them a little while then.

What European Dairy Farmers Is

David Jones 7:54

Yeah, indeed, yeah.

Andrew Jones 7:57

So as I say, we're here to talk about the fact that the uh 2026 EDF conference is Congress, I should say, um, is here in June in Chester. But before we do, um I I don't know which one of you gentlemen wants to take the question, but tell us a little bit about EDF, what is it, um, how did it come to being, how long has it been going, just just a little bit of history about it and and and what's involved.

Richard Simpson 8:21

Um yeah, well if I yeah, start so yeah, EDF or European dairy farmers, um, it's it's really a club. It's a club of visionary dairy farmers um across Europe. Um it was set up uh back in uh 1990, actually um set up with um, you know, very much involved a group of farmers from the UK. Um the initial meeting was was in Stoneleigh. Um and some of the sort of original uh people setting up was the likes of uh Jim Harrison from um Sussex, that I'm sure uh many listeners all know well and know the Harrison family well. So yeah, it's it's a group of now sort of 500 plus dairy farmers um from across Europe, um, all types of sort of farms represented. Um really the at the focus of EDF is the cost of production. Um I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about that. That that provides um a wet the the method where farmers can confidentially, independently share their full cost of production figures with the group. Um, and that then forms the basis of discussions. Uh, so you know, at the Congress, we'll talk a little bit about how we also will use the cost of production on the on the farm visits and that sort of things. Um, but yeah, it's really it's really very much a club. Um many of the farmers within the group are representatives of their co-ops or producer groups, um, like like David is. Um and yeah, you know, each each nation has um its own branch. So uh as well as EDF, we have our EDF UK group. Um, so that's what uh uh Roger is is chair of. Um so we meet uh twice a year. So um we have a sort of two-day meeting twice a year, spring and autumn. And yeah, we typically go to um an area of the country um and visit two or three farms and then have a discussion around the uh a workshop around the cost of production. Um and then each year there's the main event is the um annual congress. Um so yeah, last year was in was in Portugal. End of June last year, we had an excellent Congress uh by the beach in Portugal, and uh yeah, we're following uh Congress by the beach um with a Congress in uh in Chester.

Andrew Jones 10:56

Um now tell me if I'm wrong. When I was uh reading your website yesterday, it's not just members from uh Europe, is it? There's members from elsewhere as well, is that right?

Richard Simpson 11:06

Um yeah, I mean it the Europe is the sort of focus on the main member groups, um, but at each Congress there's always you know uh a reasonable number of um delegates from outside Europe. Um in Portugal there was uh about eight, ten delegates from from the US. Um and again, we always try to get speakers from um international speakers as well.

Andrew Jones 11:34

So so yes, we've uh we've talked about no no the one I particularly noticed was uh it said there was an EDF branch in Canada. So um, but I guess ultimately it's all the same thing. It's all about comparing the numbers and and costs of production and and and seeing where people compare. Um so no, uh a little uh thank you for that. So so how many members are there in the UK?

Joining EDF And Learning Abroad

Richard Simpson 11:55

Um we've got there's about about 30 members, uh just over 30 full members in the UK. Um but we're trying to we're trying to grow the group. And yeah, one of the um sort of opportunities with us having the the Congress in the UK this year. Um, yeah, we're looking to get you know some new um UK members involved, uh, not just at the Congress, but you know, involved in the UK branch and you know, properly, you know, contributing with their cost of production. I mean, it it's that cost of production that is at the heart of EDF. Um, you know, that's what we base a lot of the sort of workshops, you know, discussions on around. And whenever we visit a farm, um, yeah, we always sort of plan and visit the farm beforehand, pick up their figures. So, you know, when we're on farm, when we're, you know, hearing about the system, uh, you know, the figures give that, you know, basically keep everything honest. You know, we don't necessarily it's not we don't necessarily on a visit go into every nth detail, um, but they keep the the figures honest, you know, when we're talking about, you know, where that farm's come from and and what they're you know trying to achieve. Um, you know, and there's yeah, there's you know, the beauty of the UK is there's you know so many excellent farms from a wide range of systems, and it's always it's always great to hear the stories, particularly the people's stories. Um, but yeah, when it's backed up with figures behind it, that that really adds value.

Sarah Bolt 13:34

So I guess a question for for Roger and and David, as farmers, you know, why did you join EDF? And uh, you know, what do you like about uh about being part of the group?

Roger Hildreth 13:48

Uh I think I'll start with that one. So um yeah, I first uh joined European Dairy Farmers in 2018, but uh it went back a little bit further than that in the 2016 uh Ray Keating, who many of you may know from HDB, pounced on me at a at an HDB conference and said, Would you like to do European dairy farmers? Oh no, Eurodairy, sorry. And uh it's a a a study of social, economic, and COP of dairy farming across Europe. Um and wildlife as well, and biosecurity, biodiversity, should I say. And so I said, Yes, Aldo, what does it involve? And so it was a project that was fantastic, and it took me to places that I wouldn't otherwise have gone to. But one of the places it took me to was Santiago de Compostelo when the conference was in Spain. So that was my first conference, and it that conference absolutely blew my mind away. Um masses of take-homes from that from that conference alone, and I sort of called them nuggets of information, really. Uh, one of them was, well, if the if the Spaniards can double crop, why can't we at home? Um we'll give it a try. And I've done it ever since. You know, every time I go to a conference, I'm never sure what I'm gonna see, what I'm gonna find. And we always find a nugget of some sort or other. So yeah, it just it's a club, really, as Richard said earlier. We're open-minded, passionate about dairy farmers and dairy farming. We just share information um in a relaxed atmosphere. So yeah.

Sarah Bolt 15:32

Thank you, and David.

David Jones 15:35

Oh yeah, in um in 2011 I was offered a ticket to go to the the European Dairy Farms Conference, which was held uh near Stonely. Um that was the last time it was held in the UK. Um and there was a group of us um from Wales and we just continued to go every year, really. So the following year was Belgium. Um and then I forget when exactly, probably uh I don't know, six or seven years ago, something like that. Um I was asked if I wanted to be a council member to represent the UK. Um the current person was standing down, so uh yep, I've done that since.

Andrew Jones 16:11

So it sounds like you either were were um what's the word I'm looking for? Press ganged into it or or stumbled into it. Is that a fair, fair comment? You know, it's what maybe was it something you were aware of yourselves before you joined, or was it just simply it just sort of came about?

David Jones 16:27

Yeah, no, I wasn't aware of it until I was offered a ticket. So um I think yeah, stumbled into it's pretty accurate.

Hosting Chester Congress Logistics

Andrew Jones 16:34

Well, I guess that's what we're here to do today, is as uh you know, is obviously raise the profile for the Congress, and obviously, as Richard's already alluded to, trying to look for some um new members. So uh I guess let's let's talk a little bit about the Congress. I mean it it's here, it's in Chester, it's in June. Um who wants to tell us a little bit more about it?

Roger Hildreth 16:56

Well, I'll start then. I'll I'll uh I'll say a little bit about that uh for now and then the others can chip in if they wish to, Andrew. Um We'd not had the conference in the UK since 2011, as David said earlier. And we'd sort of travelled around Europe a bit, uh not quite a lot really. And a few of us just felt that it would be quite nice to have the conference in the UK, because I think that UK dairy farming has developed an awful lot since 2011. We have quite a lot to show to other dairy farmers around Europe.

Andrew Jones 17:31

How's it chosen? Is it is it a s you have to offer it or is it it's cyclic around the different members that you know you get it every well, what do you say, 2011? So it's gonna be what, 15 years ago? Just uh yeah, what's the process for who's the host?

David Jones 17:45

Uh I think David might be able to answer that whilst it's a conversation, I guess, when when we have a council meeting, so obviously typically one person from each country. Um, so there could be um 18, 20 of us uh around the table. And um uh I would say uh some people volunteer and um some people like me might kick a can down the road a few years if you can. And um and then uh yeah, I said uh we would love to have it in the UK, of course, that'd be really nice. And I thought 15 years was a good uh was a good gap. So as Richard said last year it was Portugal, next 2027 is going to be Finland. Um so we used to do a kind of north-south um thing in Europe, so I think that's that's worked pretty well over the years.

Andrew Jones 18:30

Okay, so so so you what you're saying is you you finally got pushed into doing it here in the UK, was it David?

Sarah Bolt 18:37

I think I just run out of road, so uh but but now it's coming here, obviously very excited um to to be hosting it.

David Jones 18:49

Yes, very excited, yeah, absolutely. Um I knew it was certainly going to be a lot of work, which it is. Um there's uh uh yeah, quite a lot to do with the sponsors, as Richard will come on to it a bit, quite a lot to arrange for the speakers. Um I don't know who wants to discuss the the format of the uh the EDF conference over three days.

Andrew Jones 19:07

Uh well t tell us where it is and when it is.

Richard Simpson 19:09

I I've just alluded to June but and Chester, but yeah, so it's uh 23rd to 25th of June. So Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, um held in the in in Chester. Um again, when we were sort of planning, you know, we looked at a number of um you know locations across the the UK and Chester really stood out. Um, you know, A because um, you know, it's a great historic city, uh, but also relatively small. Um so actually the main conference is being held at Chester Race Course. Um so that's really where the the hub of the conference will be. And the beauty with Chester is, you know, there's plenty of you know hotels um literally, you know, right close to the city centre. So, you know, people will be able to walk from wherever they're staying in the hotel and to the race course, um, but also to the to the city centre. And so yeah, the conference itself over three days is a mix of conference sessions, workshops, and then farm visits. Um I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit more of each of them as as we go through. But again, another reason for choosing um Chester is yeah, it is a it's a very concentrated dairy area. I think it's you know it's the most concentrated area of dairy in the UK. Um, and there's lots of great farms around there of all types of systems. Um, one of our aims, one of our aims at Helder UK was to kind of not just showcase the best of UK dairy, but showcase the range of farming systems. Um, and you know, because I mean I've been, you know, I've had the pleasure of being involved with EDF for just like 20 years now. First Congress I went to um was back in 2006, um, when it was held in in South Wales in Commandanshire. Um at the time I was doing a lot of work with uh Guess the R College down there and say that that sort of introduced me to EDF and the cost of production. And over the years, you go around, you know, you have pleasure of visiting different countries. Most countries across Europe have a uh their own, you know, have a fairly single system. You know, if you go to Ireland, you see, you know, largely spring cabin herds, excellent systems of production, but all the farms we go to are spring cabin grass-based. Um if you go across, you know, Europe, we've been to uh you know you know, Germany, Sweden, France, Deathers, most of the farms, you know, a lot of countries across Europe are sort of higher yield, if not fully housed, sort of largely fully housed. Uh within the UK. We've got, you know, systems. We might have a a grass-space system, autumnal spring calving, and next door there's a um highly efficient, high output, high-yielding herd. Um so yes, that was really, you know, one of the beauties of Cheshire. We've got that range of farms um within a very close, close area.

Andrew Jones 22:21

So but you are right, there's that diversity. If you go back, what, 20, 25 years ago, uh pretty much everyone was the same, wasn't it? You know, housed for five months, out for say seven months. Uh there might be some on my TMR compared to uh, you know, blocks or feed or whatever. But in that in that sort of last 20, 25 years, the diversification within the UK from once-a-day spring carving, maybe to intense robots in three, six, five days, and everything in between, it that there is a massive variety of farming styles within dairying in the UK.

Richard Simpson 22:57

Yeah, and with the sort of cost of production that we we do, yeah, all of those systems have the potential to make good money. That doesn't make sure they, you know, obviously it depends on the the market, the time. Obviously, I'm going into a you know um a trough of meal price at the moment, which will be, you know, one of the one of the key discussions. You know, but uh yeah, they can all they can all be very efficient. Obviously, there might be for sort of some differences in markets, which is another area to talk about. But so we want to yeah, showcase the the diversity of productive dairy and systems. That's sort of yeah, key aim of what we're we're looking to do.

Sustainability Themes Tech And Soil

Sarah Bolt 23:39

So the conference itself, has it got any particular theme or themes that uh that you can share with us?

Richard Simpson 23:46

Yeah, sure. I mean our title is New Challenges, New Opportunities. Um, so yeah, that's sort of fairly wide scope. So it gives us so um, I mean, the the format of the conference, um, we start on the sort of yeah, the Tuesday, um, people arrive sort of in the morning for a sort of you know birthday lunch. Um, and then the the Tuesday afternoon is conference sessions. So we'll we'll start by introducing people to um to the UK Darien. Um and then after after we've given people a sort of a good flavour of UK Dairy in, um, our sort of main theme we've titled Sustainable Sustainable Dairy Matters. Okay, and then within that, um there's two kind of key focus areas, and we'll have a session on each. Um, so one of our sessions will be on what are what we've termed technological revolution. Okay, so that's looking at um you know uh all types of technology, so whether that's um robotics, uh sensors, machine vision, um, artificial intelligence through to genetics, genomics, how um those systems have you know developed you know massively over recent years. And so we'll have a sort of mix of um you know technical speakers talking about uh what's available at the moment and what's coming. And then we'll also have some brief sessions from pharma speakers of how they're putting that into action. So the technical or technological revolution is is one key area, and then the other area of sustainability is really from the from the from the ground up. So that's looking at how you know you know managing the soil, um, which you know is an area that's uh we've done a lot here at Working Kingsley, and Sarah's uh very passionate about how you know managing the soil um and you know really also adding more technology to that soil management as well, can you know not only um you know reduce fertilizer use resources but lead through to sort of better quality forage, which then has a positive benefit on cow health, and ultimately through to the nutrition of the products we all we all produce. Um so yeah, those are kind of two key themes. And then in the sort of final session, kind of you know, we'll pull it together and look more at um the market opportunities. Um so and again, one of the sort of key things we're we're keen is to um, you know, milk's often, you know, seen well, it better buck it, it's a commodity, you know, and great when things are going well, but all you need is that small amount of supply as we have at the moment, and prices crash. We want to sort of have numbers look at opportunities where we can, you know, properly add value and actually properly recognize the nutritional value and quality of the products we produce.

Sarah Bolt 27:05

And I guess it's hard to get that message out to consumers as well, isn't it? Whether whether you're a farmer or a a a global um dairy supplier, um that message is obviously key to to everyone.

Workshops And Cost Of Production

Andrew Jones 27:19

Yeah, definitely. So as well as these sessions, what else will people be able to do at the Congress?

Richard Simpson 27:28

So another key area is workshops. Um so there's the whole area, uh a whole series of workshops that um people can choose from. Um so there's always so we'll have a selection of workshops that focus very much on the costs of production. Okay, so these will be these are the these are the only areas of the conference that are um available only to EDF members that put in their costs of production. Okay, so this is the only closed area of of the conference. Um so, and again, I as a as a star have run several of these workshops at past conferences. Um, so you know, what we tend to do is sort of offer various sort of topics available. So um, you know, this year we'll have a sort of um, there'll be topics, you know, maybe a topic focused on say labour efficiency, and we will um, you know, get uh probably 15 um members book into that, and then we'll select the relevant KPIs from the cost of production data and use them as a as a sort of basis for discussion amongst the members in the group. You know, and the beauty from from my point of view of running that sort of workshop is you know, all I need to do is just to kind of set up the discussion, put a put a few figures up, and then you know, break out and you know, normally break out into little groups, um, and then the farmers in the room um, you know, can discuss that topic themselves, um, and then it's just sort of facilitating discussion. So it's really that opportunity to discuss with other people from different countries, and although you know, people might think, oh, well, that's so different over there, it's surprising how the themes have a lot of commonality between them. Um, and I'm sure David and Roger can yeah, chip in on what they've had they found in those sessions.

Andrew Jones 29:34

Well, I was gonna say, when you look at those cost of productions, what are some of the interesting comparisons between countries? Because was it two years ago now? I went to Sweden, and it just it was just interesting looking there. There just seemed to be a lot more labour about than what we had here, and maybe I'm wrong, but that was just you know my anecdotal impression. What do you find in these discussions? What is there a as Richard's just alluded to, the the basics are the same, really, but what do you notice between I'm just thinking my own self. I remember I was in North Queens and had a guy from Zimbabwe come and um uh visit us because he was at the time looking and leaving Zimbabwe because of what was going on. And he I think he was a bit surprised it was basically just me and my father milking the cows rather than having obviously he had large number of staff doing it for him. But I mean, what are the differences maybe that uh stand out to you when you've talked to colleagues at these conferences from different parts of uh from different parts of Europe?

Roger Hildreth 30:30

Yeah, the standout standout changes in different parts of Europe. I guess that as Richard alluded to earlier, you know, there is the Danish way, generally the Danish way of producing the milk, which is sort of high, high input, very high output. But that sort of based on tends to be based on the fact that they've got massive borrowings in in Denmark because of the way they uh they uh land moves from one generation to the next. Um in in Sweden, as you said, Andrew, you know, it was something that I picked up on that, was that they'd all put robots in, they'd all had grants to put the robots in, put the automatic feeding systems in, government grants, and the idea was that they would perhaps invest in automation in Sweden to um to save a labour on farm, and then they could perhaps go and work in the Volvo truck factory. But they weren't. They just seemed to be hanging around inside the barns, which was something that struck me as certainly, you know, your take on it was very similar to mine at the time. There's always something that strikes strikes you on the farm, you know, whether it's too much labour or Craikey, how on earth, you know, how on earth do the Portuguese keep these sheds so cool? Um really warm temperatures when we were there, you know, well in the well in the in the low 40s when we were there uh last June.

Sarah Bolt 31:58

But I guess there's always something to learn from that though, Roger, with the hotter summers that we're getting and the heat stress and and things like that. It's that that sharing that technology and information.

Roger Hildreth 32:09

There certainly was, Sarah, yes. Because what, you know, the take-home thing from that was that they didn't have an excessive number of fans in the shed. And and yet we walked in there and it didn't feel excessively warm in the shed. And our take-home from that was that they sprayed the inside of the roof with insulation.

Sarah Bolt 32:28

Yeah.

Roger Hildreth 32:29

So, you know, there's always something there that you sort of take home that you know you spot abroad and you know, take home point store it for next time we do a calf shed.

Sarah Bolt 32:40

Exactly, exactly. So um Richard was alluding to the fact that cost of production um is something that's very important to EDF and the farmers that are involved in the group. Um, as farmers yourselves, um David and Roger, what do you um what do you get most from doing that cost of production?

UK Versus Europe On Numbers

David Jones 33:03

Um I guess it's excuse me, I guess it's because it's in in the same format. Um it may be a fairly obvious thing, but um, of course, across the sort of main 18 or so countries, um, having it in the same format where you can compare uh like with like um is is is a really key element. And I think as Roger's saying, um whether it's sitting down over a coffee with um with a farmer from any other country really, and saying, you know, why are your costs high here or your costs low here? You know, what are you doing, what are you doing different? So um I think that's that's where we get a lot from it, really. Um and as Richard was saying, really, about the the conference structure, the Tuesday afternoon is largely plenary sessions. The excuse me, the the Wednesday morning then is um, as you said, workshops and and plenary sessions. The Wednesday afternoon is um farm visits, there'll be a total of eight farm visits. The Wednesday evening will be the um uh we're going to Chester's zoo for um for a meal, which will be quite nice, which will be different. Traditionally it's um it's an on-farm barbecue, but um it's a little hard to find uh a farm suitable to have 400 guests uh and marquees and everything else. So um we chose the zoo, and as you say, it'll be something different. Um and then on the Thursday, it's plenary sessions in the morning, followed by more farm visits in the afternoon, followed by a gala dinner at Chester Cathedral. So we're looking towards that. Um and quite often there's a post-Congress tour on the Friday morning. Typically 40 or 50 people would attend that. Um, so that's hidden planning at the moment.

Andrew Jones 34:42

So talking about the costings based on an average, where does the UK compare to others in Europe?

Richard Simpson 34:48

Um, yeah, I mean that it's always interesting compared, you know, and yeah, farmers, we all like a league table and see uh see where countries rank. So um yeah, at each at each um uh Congress, um so um EDF has a core, so there's uh a small team, literally a small team in in Germany. So Germany is the base of EDF, and then um one of the uh team there, Steffi, is the guru of all the costs of production. Um so she will, the Congress, she will present the overall um averages and and ranges across the countries. Uh and Steffi is brilliant because she is to the point, okay. If someone is uh falling behind and being less efficient on things, she will make sure she she points it out. I mean, UK-wise, I'd say we are typically at the top of the league table in terms of the better, you know, the lower cost of production. So when we look at sort of overall efficiencies, we tend to be, you know, we tend to, you know, come out relatively well in that sort of league table. Um, you know, up there with sort of, you know, Ireland, their sort of low cost of production system, um, although they've had a couple of challenging years with with the weather, etc. Um, and I think what was striking last year is the sort of improvement that the Danes have made. Um, you know, and that's purely for with sort of extra production coming through, that they dilute the overall cost of production. When we look at things in terms of profitability, um, that's where UK doesn't quite rate so well. So normally we're sort of, you know, mid or sort of below mid-table, sort of, you know, in terms of profitability. Um, and I think that, yeah, it kind of sums up the you know, typically the the challenges we have of how competitive um the UK milk market is, um you know, and it's sort of reflected in that. I suppose what I just maybe just to this the EDF cost of production, I would, you know, you know, describe it as a roles rule sub cost of production systems. Um I've done, you know, cost substruction is my passion. I've done lots of use, lots of different systems um from CFP through to the sort of level we go through at Kings A. EDF then goes to kind of uh uh a level up again. So um each country has a star like itself, so all the figures are put in in the national currency, and then everything's converted to a euro equivalent within the records. Um, but the the key is you know, it's not just the cash costs that go through, there's a um a full evaluation of labour, um, both costs and hours, um, and then any family labour is costing the standard rate. Um, so um, you know, obviously there's a there's a mix of um farms that rent where the the the actual cost of rent goes in, and they're only your occupiers, a value for that land goes in relative to the the value of land in their area. Um, and then any sort of capital um and investment costs again are all reflected in the overall figures. Um and then there's uh uh what I'd say is a sort of very detailed report. So there's a kind of summary page that most farmers look at, and those that really love the figures can get into sort of the end detail where there's the breakdown of all the individual costs um and some sort of you know useful sort of overall KPIs there, um, not just the sort of bottom line for cost of production and profit, uh, but there's figures in terms of return to labor, you know, return on capital, return on land. And that's as we talk in a minute ago, it gets where it gets sort of interesting comparing countries because you then, as well as the financials, you also get right what the labor rates per hour range per country, you know, uh, what is the range of um land rent or purchase costs, you know, between countries. Um, and that's where you can kind of, yeah, that all sort of you know feeds into the discussion. Um, you know, and generally, again, visiting other countries. Um, I think in the UK here, we're you know, we're often very good at sort of you know focusing on the the negatives and what our challenges are, or maybe, you know, areas that, yeah, we want to sort of work on. When you go to other countries, you see, yeah, you pick up lots of ideas, but you also sometimes see or hear about what their challenges are, you know, and you cut I cut away thinking, actually, things are not quite as bad over here, but you know, there's there's positives we got over here and challenges that we don't have to deal with, um, you know, compared to other countries. You know, a couple of years ago we went to the Netherlands, you know, obviously they got increasing regulations, environmental regulations coming in, and I have to significantly invest in in systems to you know to ensure they have uh effectively a right to farm. Um so yeah, there's another discussion there as to you know what we're gonna face over here coming coming forward.

Andrew Jones 40:14

You've made a point there, Richard. Now obviously you're talking about EDF in this instance and the Congress, but really anybody, any chance to get off farm, it just allows you to not see the wood for the, you know, you might not see the wood for the trees if you're just at home all the time, isn't it? You you you you get boxed into what your challenges are, and and when you go and see someone else, it's like, oh, it just gives you that fresh perspective, doesn't it? Uh uh and to what your farm is now that that we're not just talking EDF, we're just talking anybody, whether it's discussion group, anything, just that chance to go and see something different just gives you a fresh perspective and makes you look at home a bit different. But picking up on there, you're talking about European. I mean, I guess you're doing these costings. I'm sure there's some this gets fed into some kind of world costing, I'm guessing. How does Europe compare to the rest of the world? Because usually, I mean, you used to talk about New Zealand, more recently, it's always Australia is seen as the cheapest cost of production. Um, how do we compare?

Richard Simpson 41:07

Uh, to be honest, yeah, EDF is yeah, really largely focused on, you know, Europe. Um, yeah, we do have uh, there's a group from Canada that um Sport Group from Kemak Canada sort of compared to. Um, you know, again, which is interesting, but you know, structure-wise, they have uh higher cost production um and higher returns, you know, particularly not just for the for the milk, but particularly for the for the subsidies. Um again, range in uh subsidies across Europe and is is uh another discussion. But yeah, EDF is you know really focused on on Europe. Um and I think you know, yeah, from our point of view, that does give, you know, we're comparing to you know several countries in a you know a similar facidity with sort of similar-ish, you know, growing conditions, etc.

Sarah Bolt 42:00

So bringing it back to the conference and for for the the bit that all the farmers probably listening want to know about, what sort of farm visits have you got organized?

David Jones 42:11

Yeah, so the farm visits uh is really where the cost of production stuff comes to life. Um I'd say the cost of production, as you've probably guessed, is really the the bedrock, the foundation of the organization. Um uh I guess uh you'd you'd so 400 people say typically, so 50 people on eight buses around eight farms. Um everybody visits four farms. Uh when you go to the farm after you've had the the coffee and the lunch or or whatever you're having, um, you'd get an introduction to the farm. We'd look at the cost production of that farm. Uh, and then that's I suppose that's the difference to a lot of conferences, I feel, when um I've gone to other countries, as was mentioned earlier, to their conferences, and we have a farm visit after the introduction and a cup of coffee, you're kind of just wandering around a farm a little bit. A little bit bored, possibly, or a little bit uh aimless, but um with with this one, you're it's always brought back to the the costs. So the conversation is is always rolling on. Um uh, like I say, why why are your costs so low on this or or higher on this, or you know, perhaps they've just done an investment, so it's uh it's a it's a longer term strategy. Um and then at the end of it, there's gonna be a wrap-up session where everybody will list out uh you know, typically a uh a whole host of things that that they think is absolutely outstanding on that farm and what they're really doing well, and then another list where people see some opportunities on that farm. So hopefully it's enjoyable for the host farms as well.

Sarah Bolt 43:40

So the host almost gets like uh 50 consultants on farm as well, which must be an amazing opportunity for for the host farms.

David Jones 43:48

Yeah, I think yeah, everybody's everybody seemed seemed happy with it um where when they left here.

Andrew Jones 43:54

So can you tell us anything about the farms you plan to visit so people know what they've got to look forward to?

Richard Simpson 44:00

Yeah, so uh it's a bit of a cafe logistics and planning have gone into this. So yeah, there's um there's eight time I mean, we should say so. We're expecting sort of towards four hundred people um at the Congress. Um so and one of our key aims is that um around seventy percent of those um delegates will be farmers. Okay, so again, and that's what EDF Congress stands out from you know other Congresses I go to in terms of the proportion of the delegates that are farmers. So we're aiming for 70% of farmers to be, yeah, that'll be farmers from across Europe. We're hoping for a you know a good contiguum from the UK. Um, and there's always a good follow-in from uh particularly the Netherlands, France, Germany, um, you know, and other countries across Europe. Um, in terms of the farms, so we are planning eight farm visits to seven farms. Um the beauty of uh Cheshire is you know the travel times will be fairly small. So, you know, the farms are within sort of 15 to half an hour um drive from Chester Race course. Um, so there's one farm, so one of the farms we're going to is Grosvenor Farms, um, and they're actually counting as two farms, so every delegate will get to visit Grosvenor. So I should say, so each delegate will visit four of the farms, okay, because yeah, it it's not feasible for everyone to visit every farm. Um so there's two farm visits on the Wednesday afternoon and two farm visits on the Thursday afternoon. Um, and what we try to do is have a selection, so we've got a half and half share of um high-yield in um uh units. So obviously Grosner, um, you know, with their um, you know, with their sort of large herd high yields, obviously lots of discussion points there sort of uh around um efficiencies, etc. So um yeah, that'll be sort of you know one of the farm visits. Um and then there'll be um uh we then have um two farms where we've worked with one of our one of our sponsors, um, which is gear. Um so gear we're very much working closely with as one of our one of our main sponsors. Um so we're going to two farms. Um one is a uh herd with towards 600 cows that has uh 10 milky robots. So they put robots in sort of a couple of years, so again, very much talking about the technology there, um, and then how they're they're using the robots to to yeah uh you know to sort of maintain the you know and ensure the sustainability of of the whole business going forward. Um another of the the gear farms is a uh now there are about a thousand cows that have literally just put in this month a new 72-point um gear rotary parlour. So again, there'll be plenty to sort of you know talk about there um in terms of you know how that business is is growing, um, you know, and the family with the sort of next generation coming through on that farm, um, how they're looking to you know take that business forward and and grow the grow the business. Um so uh as I say, our sponsors are are vital to us being able to run the conference. Um one of my main platinum sponsors is is MSD and Animal Health. Um I think you know that'll come in. I mean, we are there'll be um I mentioned earlier, one of the in terms of the speaker sessions, uh there's one of the sessions we've got planned around sort of technology and technological revolution, um, down price from MSD. I'll be speaking about their sensor technology um and how their, you know, that that is increasingly developing um use of not just technology, but application of artificial intelligence within that and how that is, you know, becoming sort of yeah, used on more and more farms. I mean, obviously, you know, MSD are uh at heart, they're uh they're an animal health company um and still have a wide variety of market leading vaccines that they have available, but in recent years they've they've developed the technology which is very much focused on possibly it's that health monitoring, it's stopping animals getting sick in the first place, you know. So um we are at King Say work closely with the the vets within our vet partners group, and increasingly the focus is you know, moving to vets being involved, not just in treating sick animals, but working with um the farm team and using technologies like SenseHub to uh to just just enable the whole team to look after cares better, improve the efficiency, reduce um health issues, um and you know, and using that technology I think as a sort of great place to play, great place to play in it. Um, you know, and it's something we at Kingsei are sort of passionate about. I've worked with you know many technologies, including um on a farm I was looking um looking after myself, which which again did have SenSub on, and so I've got sort of hands-on experience of you know what the potential of products like Sense do. Um but yeah, we even did uh uh a Kingsei, we did one of our tried and trusted surveys on care wearables. Uh so this was uh uh project led by led by Sarah. One of one of my various projects that I uh where we just you know carried out a survey of our of our Kingsei members as to what they thought of technologies. Um it's kind of like a witch report of care wearables. Um and then um, you know, we produced a report uh ranking ranking the technologies by lots of different factors. Um and overall, and the the sort of top three were sort of very close in their scoring. Uh, but at the top of the list, sort of from that independent uh members survey was the sense of technology. Um, you know, and I think that you know it's such it's not just what those technologies can do technically, it's the user interface. So it's understanding the interaction of people and technology. Um, and that's a thing, again, it's another sort of you know interesting discussion, which I'm sure will um will come up at the at the Congress.

Andrew Jones 50:54

Um so you've you've mentioned some of the farm visits there. I mean, other work are there other workshops going to be at the uh Congress?

Richard Simpson 51:02

Uh yes, so alongside mentioned the the cost of production workshops. Um so they'll be there, we'll have about a dozen different workshops. Uh, six of those will be cost of production focused with a different topic. Um, and then we've all got um say our main sponsors, um, NSD Animal Health and Gear. They will each uh run a workshop um around their sort of different technologies, um, and gear particularly focusing on the sort of labor, um, labor efficiencies of of what they can sort of offer. Um, one of the um other workshops, uh, it will be led by Paul Harris um from uh Real Success, um, who I know this uh this audience have uh heard before and and know well. So, you know, and I think as I say, the focus of the Congress is sustainability, whether that's technology using technology or from the soil from the ground up. You know, we can talk lots about sustainability, but ultimately to make it work, you need the people, you need the people engaged with it. Um, so yeah, we're looking to sort of, you know, Paul's workshop will bring bring those themes together um and look at you know the importance of the training, etc. Um, and again, you know, that's another area that that we're developing further here at Kingsay is that offering that that training, you know, not just to the to the farm leaders, but to the whole farm teams as well. Um, and it's you know getting everyone sort of you know bought into the the the concepts and actually then are able to use maybe the technology to uh to the degree with which it's uh intended.

David Jones 52:55

Yeah, and other other important sponsors would be um HSPC. Um they're the the only uh the only bank um this time, um Pioneer Corbeta. Um so yeah, we're very pleased to very pleased and lucky to have them on board.

Richard Simpson 53:11

Yeah, so we have sort of platinum, so our platinum sponsors, um, MSD and gear, gold sponsors, uh HSPT, um uh cadet, and then Pioneer. Um hopefully on one of the farms we'll Pioneer will have some sort of maze, uh maze variety trials that uh delegates can see. Um and then just confirmed also Troy Nutrition. Um, so yeah, Tro will um we'll be running a workshop um around a lot of what they're doing in terms of uh um calf health. So again, recognizing the importance of uh young stock um and that sort of next generation of of animals coming through. So there'll be a sort of you know calf health focused on that. Um and then our silver sponsors um include Muller. Um so you know Cheshire is a Muller heartland, so several several of the farms are uh both of suppliers. Um linked to I mentioned uh Grosvenor Farms, where we'll be visiting. Um so linked to Grosvenor, one of the sponsors is Cogent. Um and then we've also got uh valuable support as a silver sponsor from from Krayburg, um, who make the the the animal the cow mattresses um and also from um Arm and Hammer um company, which you know we might not know so much of in the UK, but yeah, they're very much involved in um in producing nutritional products, um, sort of and sort of leveraging micro microbial research, probiotics, um, into uh valuable nutritional products on farm.

Andrew Jones 54:59

Now you mentioned some of the farms you're visiting, uh obviously high input with the robots, I'm guessing the big rotary and the uh and grows now. I'm guessing that's balanced with some more pasture-based visits as well on some of your farms.

Richard Simpson 55:12

Yep, yep. So four of the farms are you know pasture-based. Um, you know, that doesn't mean they're they're no yield. Um one of the farms, and indeed long-term um EDF members, um, farm I don't know, you know, very well. They'd have uh 550 cows, you know, decent, reasonable output of around nine, nine and a half thousand litres, um, um, sort of late summer autumn calving, but then a clear focus on grass and grazing um through the from you know early spring whenever turnout is is feasible um right through the through the summer. So again, it's sort of building on that what you described earlier, Andrew's the sort of traditional UK system, um, but move to a sort of block calve format, the efficiency of block calving, um, and optimising that uh winter feeding on grass silage and maize, um, and then with you know grazing making a significant contribution to the to the diet um uh through the through the spring and summer.

Andrew Jones 56:19

Well, yeah, I mean I guess because you said you want to show the variety of UK farms, so that's what we want people want to see, isn't it?

Roger Hildreth 56:26

Yeah, Andrew, could I just add uh add something here? Rich, add something to Richard's uh farm visits there. We'll also be visiting a farm in the unique uh tenant system, uh, in in which the rent is actually calculated from the milk price and directly related to the milk price, and that's something I've not come across before in the UK. And I know when we visited as a group of UK farmers a while ago, we were all extremely interested, to say the least, about the system of uh of of rent there. It was uh it was absolutely unique. So yeah, that's really worth the look.

Andrew Jones 57:06

Is it a new thing for them or is it something that's just been historical?

Roger Hildreth 57:10

It's something that's been quite historical, apparently. It's gone on for a number of years. Um, but they the farm is an extremely interesting visit uh visit anyway. So yeah, fantastic place to see.

Sarah Bolt 57:21

I love hearing about some of these thinking outside of the box solutions to uh to things, and yeah, that sounds very much in that category.

Roger Hildreth 57:29

That's exactly it, Sarah. Yes.

How To Book And Final Thoughts

David Jones 57:31

Yeah, absolutely. And it was also linked, I believe, to the the amount of investment on farm from the landlord. So um those two things together. Um yeah, it is really interesting to hear about these different different ways of doing it.

Andrew Jones 57:43

Now, we've been talking about this. I guess the most important thing is if people want to come to the conference, sorry, the congress, how do they do it?

Richard Simpson 57:52

Uh very easy. So, yeah, EDF uh website, um dairyfarmer.net. Um I hopefully there'll be a link to all of this in the in the podcast notes. Um so on the EDF website you can find out uh more about EDF and the Congress. Um there's a a video um we've uh we put together um showcasing the including a couple of the farms uh included in that. And then all the booking details um will be online on the website. Um and uh the events open, it's not it's open to um members and non-members. Um, you know, the Congress always attracts uh a sort of noyal following of people that go that go most years. Um but yeah, for anyone that's interested, um we you know really welcome uh potential new members to the the Congress, but also to our um EDF UK group. So yeah, all the details are on the website.

Andrew Jones 58:54

But yeah, we'll we'll we'll have a link in the in the notes for people to uh follow the link for that. So that's not a problem. But I mean uh I'm sort of looking at the time thinking it's time we start um wrapping this up. So um if we start with you, Roger, any last words of wisdom from yourself?

Roger Hildreth 59:10

Right, yes. Uh just to add a little bit about the um about the the uh the workshops, uh there'd been a call from uh from our European friends to perhaps have some diversification workshop and on-farm processing. Um so we're going to put a workshop together with uh, you know, about vending machine ice cream manufacturer, just small local processing, fits the sustainability box extremely well. Um diversification box to, you know, just it it's just in demand and people are interested in it. So yes, we're going to be doing uh doing a good workshop for that. Good, good. Um Richard.

Richard Simpson 59:58

Um yeah. I think you know, we're looking forward to, you know, a great congress. And uh yeah, um anyone that's interested is welcome to join or get in touch with um ourselves if if they want to know any more. Uh, but also recog to recognise the sponsors. I mean, an event like this wouldn't be possible with uh the partnership of the sponsors, particularly Platinum sponsors, MSD and My Health and uh Gear. Um indeed, if there are any other uh companies listening that wish to get involved and uh wish to sponsor, then please do uh get in touch. Um but yeah, we're looking to yeah, a great few days. Um hopefully the the weather will be uh some nice weather will be with us. Who knows? Uh who knows what the weather's like gonna be in June. Um but yes, I'm sure it'll be uh a great three-day event.

Andrew Jones 1:00:48

Uh David.

David Jones 1:00:50

Yeah, I think um one of the one of the most important, one of the best parts of of EDF is obviously the social side of it. Um I had to go to Luxembourg a few months ago um for uh one of our meetings with the other council members um from from the different European countries, and um I was uh under under quite strict guidance there to uh to make sure we don't pack too much in because uh obviously you have to allow for plenty of networking time, so people can get together with a cup of coffee or a few beers, and um yeah. Uh that's yeah, that's it.

Richard Simpson 1:01:24

Yeah, well the the Irish contingents, yeah, enjoy their uh enjoy particularly their evening entertainment. Um but yeah, the beauty of Chester and you know, such a small city, um yeah, it's it's you know sort of really suits this type of event.

Andrew Jones 1:01:41

Well yes, having done uh is it oh what's it called, the conference in Ireland this time of year? Um having done that, I know exactly what you mean that they they they do like to enjoy the socialising.

Sarah Bolt 1:01:52

That would be Positive Farmers' Conference.

Andrew Jones 1:01:54

Positive farmers, thank you. So that'd be about now this time as we're recording it. Um and uh so Sarah, any uh thoughts from yourself?

Sarah Bolt 1:02:03

I've really enjoyed hearing about what the Congress has planned. Um I have been lucky enough to be involved in um some of the EDF farm visits for the EDF UK visits in the past and thoroughly enjoyed doing sort of cost of production meetings, etc. And I just think that it's an absolutely fantastic opportunity for for farmers in the UK to get involved in in something like this. If it, you know, if it if it triggers any uh any uh desires to to join, um, you know, that that's absolutely fantastic. And I just think um I'm looking forward to June when uh I'm I'm hoping that Kings Hayes giving me the escape ticket to to go with them.

Andrew Jones 1:02:46

Oh, anyway, well, first of all, thank you very much, gentlemen. It's been a pleasure to have you on and uh to learn about this. Uh yeah, and I hope really echoing a lot of what Sarah's saying, that um I hope that people listening to this, it will pique their interest if they didn't know about EDF, which I've got to be honest with you, until uh Richard approached me, I I wasn't aware of it myself or this Congress. Um, you've given us a bit more detail about what EDF is, about what the Congress is, what you've got planned, and it sounds like a great three days. And as you've pointed out, David, and and we've sort of spoken about dream process, it's not just the visits, it's not just the workshops. We call it socializing, but as you say, it's the networking, it's getting to meet other people, new ideas. Now, again, I mentioned it earlier. You could say that not just in terms of the Congress, but in terms of being involved in discussion groups, whatever. It's all important to get off farm, see other people, learn new things. Roger, you alluded to it right at the beginning. You went to Spain, was it, and you done double cropping, you know, all of these things are important, and and it's it's that opportunity to learn from other people, um, and that's what this gives you. And it is going to be focused, yeah, it's focused on cost of production, but why shouldn't it be? Because that's ultimately that's what it's gonna be. If your cost of production is not there, the rest isn't gonna follow. So um, so yes, so as um as we already said, the the a link will be in the notes for the podcast, but it is in uh Chester, it is uh the 23rd to the 25th of June. Um, so please, um, bookings are now open. If you are interested, then uh please do uh log on um and um you know go and see if you can have a couple of days away from the farm and and and talk to like-minded people. Um but otherwise, on that note, I'd like to say it's a goodbye from me.

Sarah Bolt 1:04:32

It's great to speak to you all. Goodbye from me.

Roger Hildreth 1:04:34

Goodbye. It's been really fun.

David Jones 1:04:36

Thanks.

Roger Hildreth 1:04:36

Goodbye. And a goodbye from me. And we hope to see everyone in Chester uh for the Rolls Royce of dairy pharmaceutical networking.

David Jones 1:04:45

Your seat is waiting.

Legal Disclaimer

Andrew Jones 1:04:47

Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to the Tune the Cut Podcast, podcast for the UK dairy industry, brought to you from the southwest of England and listened to around the world. Now for the really boring bit, I'm afraid, the legal disclaimer. The information provided during this podcast has been prepared for general information purposes only and does not constitute advice. The information must not be relied upon for any purpose and no representation or warranty is given to its accuracy, completeness, or otherwise. Any reference to other organizations, businesses or products during this podcast are not endorsements or recommendations of Tune the Cud Limited. The views of Andrew Jones are personal and may not be the views of Tune the Cud Ltd, and the views of Sarah Bolt are personal and may not be the views of Kingshay Farming and Conservation Limited and any affiliated companies. For more information on the podcast and details of services offered by TuneTheCud Limited, visit www.tunethecud.com. Thank you and goodbye.