How Much Sun Is Too Much?

Sunburn feels like an inconvenience until you connect it to the cancer statistics. Melanoma is the fifth most common cancer in the UK, and Susanna Daniels, CEO of Melanoma Focus, joins us to explain why a “just a mole” mindset is risky, and why early action can be life-saving. We talk plainly about what melanoma is, how UV damage builds up over time, and why noticing a new or changing mole, or something that simply looks odd is the moment to contact your GP.

We also bring it back to farm life. Outdoor work in agriculture and horticulture means higher exposure, and Susanna shares survey findings showing sunburn is far more common in the sector than in the general public. We dig into the culture piece too, especially why men often skip sunscreen, and how employers can treat sun protection as a health and safety control by providing sunscreen and making reapplication normal on busy days.

You’ll come away with practical guidance you can use straight away: the expanded Slip Slop Slap message (plus shade and sunglasses), how to use the UV index (protect when it is 3 or above), what “broad spectrum” really means, and what to look for on the bottle (SPF 30+ and a high UVA star rating). We also tackle vitamin D without turning sun exposure into a false excuse, and we finish with a clear reminder that nearly nine in ten melanomas are preventable.

Download and share Melanoma Focus' agricultural and horticulture assets:

Agricultural communications Toolkit

This was recorded in January 2026, and all information was correct at the time of recording.

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Transcript

Welcome And Industry Updates

Andrew Jones 0:14

This is the Chewinthe Cud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry, brought to you from the southwest of England and listened to around the world. Hello and welcome to Chewinthe CThud Podcast. My name is Andrew Jones, and with me as always is Sarah Bolt. How are you doing, Sarah?

Sarah Bolt 0:40

I'm very well, thank you, Andrew. And how are you?

Andrew Jones 0:42

Yeah, I'm not too bad. I'm not too bad. I believe you've been a little bit busy since we last spoke.

Sarah Bolt 0:47

I have. I've been up to London. I spent the first 18 years of my life trying to escape it, and now I get quite quite excited when I go back. I was uh invited by the Society of Agriculture um to go up to their their launch, which was held at the House of Lords. So it was a lovely opportunity to to go and uh dress up and um and represent uh represent the industry.

Andrew Jones 1:10

Meet anybody exciting and interesting?

Sarah Bolt 1:13

Well, all sorts. It was full of the great and the good.

Andrew Jones 1:19

There's no name drops happening here then.

Sarah Bolt 1:21

No, no, I'm not gonna do any name drops. No, because if I started with one or two, the rest will all feel left out, wouldn't they?

Andrew Jones 1:27

Well, that's fair enough. That's fair enough. No, that's grand, that's grand. As long as you had a good time, as you say, it it's it's nice to see um uh a positive like this for the industry with people trying to come together to make a a one representative body to to cover many um aspects of the or to cover that aspect of the industry. So that's that's fantastic. Um moving on to today's podcast. Well, uh we got approached about this probably 18 months ago, and I've got to admit, every time I either listen to it or record it, I keep getting a little bit of a a burnt sensation on the back of my neck. It's obviously just one of those things when you think about it, isn't it?

Sarah Bolt 2:04

It is, it is.

Andrew Jones 2:07

But uh it's one we'd love people to share um far and wide. It's while obviously we're aiming it's aimed at people in agriculture and horticulture, there's a lot of good information in there that is relevant to everybody. So I know myself I'm gonna try and share it with the kids' rugby club and cricket club and school, just because it's such an important topic.

Sarah Bolt 2:28

And anybody that spends any time outside, it's something that's really important.

Sponsor Message And Services

Andrew Jones 2:34

Definitely. It's probably made, given the weather we've already had this year, it's probably made me use sun cream a bit more than I usually would. So uh hopefully that's a positive. So, so yes, let's go uh go listen to today's podcast. T This podcast has been brought to you today by ChewintheCud Limited, who offer completely independent dairy and beef nutrition. CiwSignals advice and training, along with ROM's mobility scoring. More details on these and other services available, please visit our website www.chewinthecud.com or email us directly on nutrition@chewinthecud.com. ChewintheCud Limited now offers first aid training from a registered first aid at work trainer and experienced minor injuries practitioner. For more details, please visit our website www.chewinthecud.com or email us directly on training@chewinth ecud.com. Hello, I'm Andrew Jones.

Sarah Bolt 3:42

And I'm Sarah Bolt.

Andrew Jones 3:43

And welcome to the ChewintheCud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dairy industry.

Sarah Bolt 3:48

Farmer, advisor, processor, and everyone else. We have topics and episodes that will interest you.

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Sarah Bolt 3:59

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Why Skin Cancer Matters

Andrew Jones 4:37

Enjoy today's episode. Hello and welcome to Tune the Cut Podcast. Today we're going to talk about skin cancer. Um, a little bit different, I know some of you may know, but um our guest today, and then we'll get into the hows and whys, is um Susanna Daniels, who is CEO for Melanoma Focus. Hello, Susanna.

Susanna Daniels 5:07

Hello, lovely to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Andrew Jones 5:10

You're more than welcome. Now, this came about because one of um Susanna's trustees um happens to be a neighbour of one of our former guests who'd obviously mentioned she'd been on our podcast, uh, and uh reached out back in spring 2025 and said, Oh, can we come on the podcast? And it was like, I'd love you to, just haven't got time this year. Uh and they were like, No, that's that's fine, because we're doing a survey in agriculture, which will be available for 2026, so hence why we're here. Um, more than happy to do it from my um experience in Oz, where there was a lot more focus on skin cancer, melanoma. Um, but uh before we get into all of that, Susanna, just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today.

Susanna Daniels 5:54

Um, well, thank you for having me. So um uh my background, I'm an oncology pharmacist by background. So essentially I've always worked in cancer services uh within hospitals. Um, and um and I did that for many years. Um, and then after doing that and being the lead cancer pharmacist, um, I decided I wanted to go to industry uh to work on one of the immunotherapies on the medical side and really try and do sort of uh during working within the NHS, etc. But um that was quite a challenge, and I felt I wasn't making a difference in how I was used to making a difference. Um but when I was in Pharma, we used to sponsor melanoma focuses healthcare professional meetings. So I became aware of the charity, um, and I understood that the um they wanted to create a trial finder so that people could find out what trials were running in melanoma. So I contacted the CEO and I said, Oh, I'll do that for you. Um, and he said, No, I need someone to take over the charity. Um, clearly I have not got any charity experience. Um, but he uh convinced me to apply and he agreed to stay on for a year with me. Um and the rest is history. I've been here for six years and loving it. Um and yeah, I I hadn't realized how much the charity sector props up the NHS, which um I'm very pleased to be doing.

Andrew Jones 7:20

Well, as I say, it's funny where the what life takes you sometimes, isn't it?

Susanna Daniels 7:24

Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Jones 7:25

I mean, what many people may not realise, because it kind of surprised me a little bit, is melanoma is the fifth most common cancer in the UK.

Susanna Daniels 7:33

It certainly is. Um, and I think people don't realise and often dismiss melanoma as just a mole, um, and you don't need to worry about it. But, you know, the this is still a cancer, and anyone struck with a melanoma will know what it's like to have a cancer diagnosis and live with that. Um, the fortunate thing is that most of these cases are diagnosed at an early stage. So, what it's really important to do is that if you notice something that is a little bit odd, so a new or a changing molar lesion, then contact your GP and they might ask you to send a picture in which will go through a secure messaging system, and that's absolutely normal and safe. Um, and if they have any worries or they can't see the picture properly, they will they will send it over for a to a dermatologist to have a look at. And just because you're called doesn't mean you've got cancer. But the earlier that it's bought um and dealt with, if it is melanoma, um, then the the higher the survival rate is. So it's really, really important to know your skin and get checked out.

What Melanoma Focus Does

Sarah Bolt 8:39

So, Susanna, can you tell us a little bit more about melanoma focus as a charity and what it does, please?

Susanna Daniels 8:46

Of course. So the charity was set up by my predecessor in 2012, and it was set up, he merged two medical charities. So that is certainly one, you know, a big part of our focus. Um, and so we support healthcare professionals, and that's by putting on two accredited large conferences a year. Um, we also create rare melanoma guidelines. So, melanoma, you know, if you is is of most people know of it as the skin, whereas there are rare forms in the mucosal linings of your body and also in your eye. These are very, very rare. Um, and we create the national guidelines. Um, we also fund research for patient and public benefit. Um, and um, and then on the patient side, um, we're our trustee who set up the um and founded the patient conference, um, who you were referring to earlier, we've taken over the running and organization of that conference. So that's an incredible conference um providing latest updates of melanoma medicine um and uh for to to about 250-300 patients and their loved ones. Um, and it and it's an incredible hopeful environment for patients to learn from each other as well. Um, and then also for patients, um, we have a helpline, and that's for anyone with a worry about melanoma and its treatment and effects. Uh, we have eight nurses, skin cancer nurse specialists who will run that helpline. They they all work in the in centres in the in the UK. Um, and then I'm really, really keen on high-quality patient information. So we have um all of our patient information is accredited, um, and that's reviewed, constantly reviewed. And I mentioned our trial finder. So that's there's got two versions to support healthcare professionals and one to support patients. So trials are a really important part of the patient pathway, so that it offers latest advances, um, and also you get very good, um, you'll be monitored very, very thoroughly while you're during, you know, during any study. So that's kept up to date on our website. And then because nearly nine in ten melanomas are preventable, um, we um another our third area is is about awareness. Um, and much of that work uh starts in May, which is melanoma awareness month, and then we'll continue through the summer months where people, it's not that melanoma is more common in the summer months, but it's because people tend to notice their skin more because they're wearing less clothing, because it's warmer, so they do tend to notice it, even though we do urge people to check their skin on a monthly basis. Um, but awareness is really, really critical because yes, it's the fifth most common cancer in the UK, but nearly nine and ten are preventable.

How Sun Culture Changed

Andrew Jones 11:46

Well, I was gonna say, if we take a step back, we're all of an age, I'm sure, that it was it wasn't sunscreen, it was suntan lotion, wasn't it? Where having a suntan was a good thing and and being out in the sun and uh you know having that suntan was going to protect you from the sun, and yet things have changed. Now, as I say, I I obviously lived in Oz for 10 years and we can talk about different things, but people certainly of a certain age over there will be very aware of their slip slop slap campaign, which was massive. Now, I looked it up yesterday, I didn't realise this started in 1981. Now, obviously, that this sort of thing probably started there sooner than here because they're more sun, more UV. But actually, this has been going on for what 40, well, 45 years we're talking there now. So this has been known about for a long time, and yet we were still, we're all still of an age when people went out in the in the sun and got themselves baked.

Sarah Bolt 12:37

And and factor eight was a was a song, a strong, um strong screen, wasn't it? I mean, in my day.

Susanna Daniels 12:45

Yeah, and people used to step down as well, you know, they'd start off with eight and then to four, two, and then the you know, the baby oil it would be. And yeah, I think we've we've come a long way, and you're absolutely right. Um, the UV is much stronger in Australia, um, but there are learnings from Australia, and they've had very strong public health campaigns, and we know that um unless you could you have repetitive campaigns, um, it's really that's really, really important for the messaging to come across. Um, and so it and the government haven't invested in any national campaigns for years. Um, so but it is it's critical. Um, we know that eat year on year, pretty much, you know, the the UV is getting, you know, the index is getting warmer, you know, and hotter every year, and the UV index is getting higher. So it's just, you know, we're we're living in a world where you're not just going abroad to get and would and would be at risk of getting burnt. It's not just for the affluence, it's for anybody, you know, at risk of getting burnt in this country.

Andrew Jones 13:45

For anybody that's not familiar with Sid the Sea's goal, it's slip on a shirt, slop on some sunscreen, and slap on a hat, ideally a broad brim hat, so it covers your ears as well. But I do see now that's expanded to seek for seeking shade and slide for slide on some sunnies.

Susanna Daniels 14:03

That's right. Um they've ri they've expanded it, and all of those things are important. And we and we also, you know, we would advocate for that. It's not just about putting on sunscreen, it is about seeking shade and covering up um where you can, and that they're all really important factors.

Sarah Bolt 14:21

So you mentioned there, Susanna, about um burning and when we burn our skin, what is it um, or um what do we need to understand about burning our skin and the risks associated with melanoma?

Susanna Daniels 14:36

So melanoma is where the melanocytes, which are the pigment-producing cells in your body, grow out of control. And when you're in the sun, um what can happen is that you can get some um changes in the DNA, in your in in genetic changes, and it's a buildup of these changes. So your body's very clever and it can repair itself, but you can get a build-up of these changes over time, and then that can tip for some people into malignancy and into a cancer. So you could have two people that were exposed, um, exposed to the same amount of UV from the sun, and one of them gets melanoma and one of them doesn't. And some of it is down to luck. Um, but it is the more time you spend in the sun and increase and burning, and particularly burning in childhood, um, these are all really important factors. But obviously, you've got there are risk factors. So if you're more moly, if you've got very pale skin, um, these are other factors that are make you more at risk, more at risk of burning. So pale skin, pale eyes, you know, that type one skin tone, um, it makes you it makes you more at risk of of melanomas and other skin cancers.

Andrew Jones 15:53

Now you've touched on it already, but you've talked about two signs. Now you may disagree. When I was in Oz, they always talked about three signs. So um do you just want to reaffirm what those two signs are? And I'll I'll bring in what the third one was when I was in Oz.

Susanna Daniels 16:09

Yeah, sure. So the most common uh well, the the thing that we say to look out for is that a um a mole or a lesion is changing. That's the most important thing to look out for because not all melanomies will look and behave uh behave the same way. And the other thing is that if it's if it just looks a bit odd, so it's the is the ugly duckling test. So it looks a little bit different to all your other moles or lesions. Um but there are some um there are some criteria which people say the A, B, C, D, E. Um, so A is asymmetry, um, where to if you if you put a mirror down um the mole, it will look different on each side. B is border, so you might have an irregular edge. C is colour, so there might be different colours. Um, D is diameter, saying that they're it has to be uh that they're above about six millimetres, which is is like the tip of your pencil, and then E is evolving. But not all melanomas will follow that those criteria. So to keep it simple, and some melanomas are amelanotic, which means they have no colour. Um, and so to keep it simple, um, it's about the evolving nature, really, and that it looks different and odd to your other moles or lesions.

Andrew Jones 17:28

I was gonna say, because the two that's classically talked about, as you say, is is it a new mole? Is it a growing mole? And then certainly the one that was in Oz was if it was, as you say, basically a uh bigger than the size of a rubber on the end of your pencil. And I know off the back of that, and I'd totally forgotten about this until we were, you know, preparing for this uh podcast, when I was in Queensland, I had a couple removed off me. Simply, they said there's nothing to worry about, but it is just a precaution because they're bigger than they'd always been there all my life, I remember. Um, but because they were the size they were, they just took them off.

Susanna Daniels 18:00

But again, if we it it's then not all melanomas are or above the size of a pencil. So some of them are smaller, hence why is it changing or is it new? Does it look a bit odd? Just they're the things that to really look out for.

Andrew Jones 18:15

Yeah, and I'll I'll throw in another one uh that was a bit different. When I lived in uh Queensland, they had a service called Mole Scan, and uh it was basically uh health professionals, I think it was on their time. I'm not entirely sure what it was exactly. Um, but I just remember my girlfriend at the time booking me in and saying, You're doing this. You walked in, you stripped down to your underwear, uh particularly you've got a lot of moles, um, and you they basically just examined every mole on your body uh and then gave you a yay or an A. And it was sort of one of those things you did once a year just to cover yourself.

Susanna Daniels 18:49

And you know what? It's brilliant to have uh things that you know that that that was available. And unfortunately, that isn't available on the NHS, apart apart from people who who perhaps have had previous melanomas and or have got m um syndromes where they've got uh you know a large number of moles, or you can pay for things like that privately. Um, but I suppose in lieu of that, we've got information on our website about how to check your skin, um, how you can check your own skin, you do it yourself, but also you know, how in videos, etc. And we've got um a skin check leaflet to to run through it. So not as easy as doing that, but at least, you know, keeping an eye on your on your moles and lesions yourself is something that we can all do.

Andrew Jones 19:33

I was gonna say another one I'm just thinking maybe some wives and girlfriends might not like. I knew um somebody that had a skin cancer on his face was recommended uh by his doctor to grow a beard because it helped protect uh helped protect his face from the sun.

Susanna Daniels 19:48

Yeah, um and uh it it does, but it's still, you know, you are covering it, but it depends how thick your beard is, but also, you know, you've still got to, you know, your hair, people get people get melanomas on their scalps and they still and they might have a whole head of hair. So it's not it's not gonna protect you. Um I say, you know, it's not that's not gonna be enough. Um, you know.

Andrew Jones 20:08

No, exactly. So I'm not saying it's gonna be enough, but it was certainly something he was recommended. And funnily enough, most most of the men in North Queensland did have full beards, uh, and I had one myself, and it it was protected you from the sun, but I'd also say it protected you from the rain when you got into a storm season and and and the wet season, but that's a whole nother whole nother question.

Sun Protection For Farm Work

Sarah Bolt 20:28

So sort of bringing this to um to a farming audience, um, obviously farmers and people that work in the in outdoor industries that they are outdoors a lot more. Um UV there is there for um affecting them a lot more. What um what can farmers and other outdoor people be doing just to um to protect themselves, I guess, a little bit more? This is a this is something that can be prevented. How can how can they go about doing well?

Susanna Daniels 21:04

It's the simple protection, like uh like all of us, is really uh wearing sunscreen, but also reapplying it. So that's really, really important. It's not just about putting it on at the beginning of the day. And we don't recommend once daily sunscreens either. They're not uh kind of from when you were in Australia, they wouldn't have been allowed to sell once-daily sunscreens. Um anything that prevents reapplication um is not permitted. So in Australia, that's why it's not allowed because we none of us put it on as it as it was, you know, in in laboratory conditions, as it would have been done, you know, when it was tested. So reapplication every two ish hours is really, really important. But as we talked about earlier, covering up, wearing a hat, seeking shade where possible. I appreciate, you know, if you're working outdoors, that might not be possible. Um, but seeking shade if that's a possibility.

Andrew Jones 21:56

And just to emphasize by hat again, a broad brim hat rather than just a cat. Yes.

Sarah Bolt 22:02

So I think that um probably just the the culture of of perhaps farmers, um, the thought of going to putting on a s you know, even probably just using a moisturizer or anything else. I'm particularly thinking of um the the the males within the industry. How do you think we can try and encourage particularly male farmers to um to actually use sunscreen? Because I think that's probably one of the biggest challenges we've got. I think females within the industry, it might be slightly different, but particularly from a male point of view.

Susanna Daniels 22:38

I think from a male point of view across the across the general public, I think it's it's it's more of an issue. And we found that with our uh national surveys um in 2025. So we found that about 50% of Brits' general public um suffer from sunburn at least once a year. And only about just over a third um said that they rarely or never apply sunscreen um in the summer months in the UK. Um but that was was about it was just was higher in men, so it was 42% in men. But we did also survey the agricultural industry and the horticultural industry, and whereas it was about 50% of Brits who were who were suffering from sunburn at least once a year, it was just over 75%. So we're going from about 50% to 75%. So three-quarters of agricultural workers remember getting you know a burning at least once a year.

Andrew Jones 23:41

Do you think that's because the general public usually only go out in the sun when they're on holiday? So therefore, or or you know, the weekend, whatever.

Susanna Daniels 23:49

So they're I think they're out in the sun more, so I think that's why it's more problematic.

Andrew Jones 23:54

Um they do put sunscreen on, whereas um I don't know.

Susanna Daniels 24:00

The general public are not putting sunscreen on in the same way, but I think it's because the agricultural industry are outside more. So, but it was higher, it was 52%. So about half of them were saying they've never or rarely wear sunscreen um in the summer months. And we asked why, and about a third said it was because they forget. Um, about a quarter said they don't expect to burn. And and I've spoken to people before, you know, in the farming industry, and it's just you know, feeling that you build up this tolerance over years and that your skin's weathered, and you know, you've, you know, you don't need to, which isn't the case. Um and and I suppose another worrying bit is that about 10%, so you know, don't because they can't afford it. Um, so but that's another issue. Um and but I just want to say when putting sunscreen on, I mean, you talked about a wide brim hat, which is really important to protect your ears, um, because people often forget to put sunscreen as well on the on the tops of their ears. And that is an area, um, not just your head, but your tops of your ears where you're at risk of getting melano. I mean, for men, that's the most, you know, the most common areas of their their torso, often because they're probably just going around with their tops off, uh, but also their scalp is uh, you know, a a next. Whereas for women, the most common areas are their limbs, so arms and legs.

Andrew Jones 25:24

It's as much, as you say, it is about the culture because it's making me think, you know, it starts almost back in school uh in Oz. I mean, you don't get it here, but you know, each school has to be sun-safe. The kids can, if they don't wear a broad brim hat, have to, if they wear a cap, have to have one like with a foreign legion, you know, that covers the back of the neck. They have to have shade areas available. Uh, and I mean, I certainly remember, all right, we're going back a fair few years now, but you know, when it was the sun, the that the sun was out, instead of staying in the play tarmac playground, we had some nice trees to hide under, we got kicked up to the sports field where there was no shade, and personally, it was just something I always hated because I've always been a shade seeker, not a sun seeker. But it it starts, it's the culture starting right from the beginning, isn't it?

Susanna Daniels 26:09

I think you're absolutely right. I think there's there are things that happen in some primary school, in primary schools, um, and but secondary schools there's nothing. Um, and I think you know, we we can even as parents, you know, you can you you'll you'll be modelling, and that's really important that you model for your children in putting sunscreen on and covering up, etc. Um, but once they get to teenagers, you know, they're making their own mind up. And so, you know, you can buy it all you like, but that's um, it's still, you know, you don't want those, it's a difficult battle, but they need to understand it as well. Um, uh, and it's not just about sunbeds, uh, sorry, sun, it's also about sunbeds as well. Um, and and TikTok and social media has a lot to answer for because um and the misinformation about sunbeds, about sunscreen, I think doesn't help when you've got influencers um talking about these factors.

Andrew Jones 27:05

Isn't it funny how sunbeds, as you say, seem to be coming back round again? Whereas again, we're of an age where they they were very popular, 80s, and and then they were uh the the risks were highlighted, they went very out of fashion, and yet it does seem to be now for some the younger generation, now it almost seems to be they're back in, and you say because you've got um uh social media influencers, it's becoming aware of them. But isn't it funny how the I won't say life in general, lessons of the past are forgotten?

Susanna Daniels 27:39

It's quite scary actually, and they're being marketed for well-being as well. So I think there's a lot of misinformation put out there about sunbeds, which is really, really worrying. Um, we know from our survey work last year that uh 34% of 16 and 17-year-olds are using sunbeds. Um, they are banned in under 18s. So that's you know, it's really problematic. Young skin is particularly vulnerable. We know that one serious sunburn in childhood doubles the risk of melanoma later on in life. Um, so young skin, you know, we do need to protect be protecting that skin. But yeah, and I think because they're on the high street as well, um, it sort of normalizes them as if it, you know, it's it's they're you know, they're fine. Um, but actually they are not. Um and there's a lot to be done. Um, there's a lot to be done there.

Sunbeds And UV Lamp Questions

Sarah Bolt 28:32

So thinking about um sort of UV light and sort of nail bars, I'm gonna the the men listening to this are gonna go, what's what's Sarah on about? But we're getting more and more females in the industry, and a lot of them are having very nice nails um whilst they're out on farm and working. What with acrylics that you can um, you know, they're they're much hardier than they used to be. Um, you know, the risks, are there risks associated with sort of the UV lamps for for nail bars?

Susanna Daniels 28:59

And so it's the jury's out there actually, it's quite interesting. The the rates of melanomas on hands aren't haven't, you know, haven't got higher. Um, but that said, um, you can get or and and it's worth asking in various nail bars. Um, instead of UV lamps, LED drying lamps. So it's worth probably asking um if they know about them or if they can get them in. Um certainly there's a theoretical risk, um, but I haven't seen that played out. But it is um, you know, who knows? Because more more and more people are getting their nails done regularly. And so And starting younger as well. Starting younger. And so it's probably worth putting sunscreen on your nails before you go in because just to mitigate that risk.

Sarah Bolt 29:46

Thank you. I think you know it's something to be think something for to be thinking about.

Andrew Jones 29:50

Yes. Not something I know a lot about, if I'm perfectly honest.

Sarah Bolt 29:56

I don't know, Andrew, why not?

Andrew Jones 30:00

My name's not Eddie Izzard, but there you go. Um it is, it's and and the the daft thing is people look at me when I'm uh stupid when I say something. It says we talked about it's covering yourself up. Now we've often had this, so aren't you hot? And it's like, well, if you get it in the summer, I'd rather wear a thin shirt that covers me. Well, yeah, me going topless is is not something you want to see. Um, but you know, I mean, I'd rather cover up and and people go, well, aren't you hot? Well, actually, if you're wearing the right clothing, you're actually cooler because it's you're not you're not absorbing that heat, I guess, off the sun.

Susanna Daniels 30:32

Yeah, I think I I think it is just changes in attitudes. And I think people need to understand, you know, what the UV index is as well. You know, the UV index is a measure of um the strength of the of the of the sun's rays. Um and so we recommend you don't need to be wearing sunscreen all wear all year round. It's just when the UV index is three or above. So the higher the UV index, um, the higher the um the strength. Um and that tends to be it tends to be three or above from about um sort of May time anyway. So you were, you know, so April, May, um until you know October time. So there, you know, it's that's something, it's not, it's not something you need to be wearing all year round.

Sarah Bolt 31:18

So you alluded to um the survey that you did looking specifically at agriculture and horticulture. Were there any other findings that were interesting compared to the the general public that you can share with us?

Choosing Sunscreen And Using UV Index

Susanna Daniels 31:32

I suppose as I sort of alluded to, is that it was about it was also the 52% never or where, you know, so about half net rarely or never wearing sunscreen. Um and and about over a third of farmers um rarely or never cover their skin with clothing. So I think that was a real worry when they're working outdoors. So again, just despite them spending a lot of their time uh working outside, um, it's just it's just that change in culture.

Andrew Jones 32:04

Uh you mentioned sunscreen there. Factors, what factors should people be using? Ideally, you said not once a day. Um, but I can't remember, was it here or was it in Australia recently? There was a big hoo-ha that they tested a load of sunscreens and they weren't what they were supposed to be. So what should people what factor and what should people be looking out for for a good quality sunscreen?

Susanna Daniels 32:26

Um, people should be wearing factor 30 plus sunscreen. So that's factor 30 or factor 50. There's not a huge amount of difference between them, but also they should be looking at the star rating. Um, so there'll be a star rating on the bottles as well, and that's to look at so the SPF is your is is the protection against UVB, and um, because there are two types of radiation that can cause skin cancer and that come from the sun. Um, and then the star rating is about protection against UVA. Um, and so um, and that you're looking for a four or a five-star rating. Um, and then the other things to sort of um think about is that when you uh in terms of the differences between sunscreens, um, there are things called chemical or organic sunscreens, um, and they will protect your skin by absorbing the sun's rays, and it will undergo a chemical reaction and prevent it from damaging your skin. And most sunscreens are sort of chemical or organic. However, you can get mineral or physical sunscreens or inorganic sunscreens, and they will protect your skin by deflecting the sun's rays. Um, and these contain um zinc oxide or titanium dioxide. Um, and if you've got skin conditions um or or your skin can get quite irritated, it's better that you're using one of these physical or inorganic sunscreens because um you're more likely to not get irritation or flare-ups of what of your skin. Um, and so that's really, really important. Um, there's sadly been um misinformation going out about that sunscreens are harmful and are they harmful, but actually, that is so much misinformation on social media that sunscreens are causing harm, and there's absolutely no scientific evidence around that. But actually, billions of people have used sunscreen, and there's there's such a body of evidence of well-researched demo demonstrating that sunscreen prevents skin cancers. Um, and then I suppose that in terms of other things to look at on the sunscreen bottle, there's a the you'll see something on a bottle about um like a lid opening, and it might say 12 months or six months or something. And that's basically saying how long um the bottle can be used um once it's been opened. So if if you use it longer than that time, um then it will just have lost some of its potency. So um that's just something else just to think about.

Andrew Jones 35:17

So from what you're saying, then we want to be looking for a high SPF, so 30 or 50, high star rating, and really you need to be changing that every year.

Susanna Daniels 35:27

Yes, that's right. That's right. And we say that the best sunscreen is the one that you're going to use. Um, so that's the best one.

Sarah Bolt 35:35

I'd not come across that star rating before. That's something new to look. I'd heard of UV and U UB, but I hadn't noticed or come across that star rating. So that's a really interesting one.

Susanna Daniels 35:48

So sometimes you know, we'll talk about a broad spectrum sunscreen, and that's what it's talking about. It's talking about protection against UVA and UVB. It's it's important to be protected from both.

Andrew Jones 36:00

I think I might have seen the stars, but meant nothing to me. I guess I probably thought it was just uh I know relation to the SPF, but what you're saying is really they are two different things.

Susanna Daniels 36:10

They are two different things, yeah. Um and then just going back to the UV index, um, so you can find out the UV index for the day and most weather apps. Um, so that'll tell you what the UV index is. So as I said, if it's three or above, that's when you should be wearing sunscreen and covering up, wearing a broad-brimmed hat, seeking shade.

Sarah Bolt 36:31

And I think we wouldn't even think about that from sort of April, would we? We we'd maybe think about it on a 25 degree plus day, but perhaps not just sort of on a, oh, it's 18 degrees and the sun's out. We perhaps wouldn't, or I certainly wouldn't think about it.

Vitamin D Without Risky Sun

Susanna Daniels 36:47

Yeah, I think it's really changing our norms there, because that is it is really important because we've all got caught out on those cloudy days where you think it's not warm, it's because the UV index is is higher than you think.

Andrew Jones 37:00

So, Susanna, what about uh vitamin D? Because everyone tells us that we need the sun for some vitamin D. What are the facts and figures for that?

Susanna Daniels 37:08

So you're right. So there's a there's a relationship between vitamin D and sun exposure. And in the summer, just short periods of time every day in the sun with your legs and forearms exposed without sunscreen can produce sufficient vitamin D for most people. But in the winter months, um, UVB rays are not strong enough to produce sufficient vitamin vitamin D in our skin. So we talked about that UVA and UVB. Um UVB is responsible for vitamin D in our skin. Um, there are other ways because there is a complicated relationship between the sun and our skin. Um and so, yes, sun exposure is important, um, but you know, you can get vitamin D from other factors. Um, and so that can be through our diet, so oily fish, um, eggs, red meat, um, mushrooms, um, and obviously fortified cereals um where you might see it, and um, and and and then vitamin supplements, which is what some people take. So often it's a good idea to particularly take vitamin supplements in the winter months. Um, and people with darker skin tend to not tend to have lower levels of vitamin D because they're they get less absorption of vitamin D from the sun. So they also may be at risk, more at risk of um of uh lower levels of vitamin D. So yeah, it's a complicated relationship, but generally it's just reasonable, you know, it you know, at the beginning and the end of the day when the UV index is lower, you know, you can just expose your your you know your body to this, you know, to the to the to the sun. But again, if you if that's the time where you know it's best just to put on sunscreen before you go out in the morning, then do it, because you know, it will wear off and before you put it on the next time. You will have you know, you will be produ, you know, if you're outdoors the whole time, I'm sure you'll be producing enough vitamin D from the slight exposure that you will get anyway. So I'm sure anyone working outdoors will be absolutely fine wearing sunscreen.

Andrew Jones 39:20

Um yes, so you spoke on a a little bit. So any other, not just in farming, but any other things that uh worried you or you were unexpected with the survey you did last year?

Susanna Daniels 39:33

I think I think one of the concerns with um with this with the um with the agricultural industry and farming is that um is recognizing that farm safety is is goes beyond your own livestock or your own sort of what you're looking after. It's really you really need to sort of be thinking about yourself as well. And working in agriculture means you're working and spending a lot of time outside. And so you have much more sun exposure potentially than people who work indoors. So it's recognising that these are risks. And I suppose if you're an employer um and you're employing people, then it is a it's a risk and it's um, you know, you're it's it's a health and safety risk of your employ of your of your employees. So I would suggest it's it's really important that you um and you can provide sunscreen for your employees, which I think is just as important. It's not just about people putting it on themselves. I think it's a health and safety measure for people to consider.

Andrew Jones 40:35

And you talked to staff there, which is grand, because I think I was just about to suggest that. What about supplying it? And you've done that. Most people would have children. What is there anything different we should be doing with children or the same basic message of slip, slop, slap, um, shade and slide?

Susanna Daniels 40:50

I think it really is the same messaging, but I think it's really important because we know that people don't model very well as well. You know, we just think, you know, we'll put it on our kids, or some people will put it on the kids, but they won't put it on themselves. And uh and that's really important because, you know, kids will see that and they'll think, well, you know, even if they haven't then arguing with you, you know, against that, they'll they will have clocked it. So it's really important that, you know, I read a stat that 91% will put sunscreen on their kids, but only 25% will put it on themselves. So very important to be putting on sunscreen. Just because you haven't uh put it on um sunscreen all your life, don't be thinking, oh, I'm doomed. Um, you know, what what's done is done, because it you, you know, be you have if you haven't got a melanoma, it doesn't mean you can still protect your skin and prevent any future melanomas. So it's just really important that you do look after your skin. You know, it's the largest organ on your body. Um, and you know, if if you sort of were told, oh, um, if I put, you know, you know, if there was a cream that could prevent lung cancer, would you use it? Or if there was a cream to prevent breast cancer, would you use it? Well, this is a cream to prevent skin cancer, use it. Um, as well as covering up, etc., and wearing that hat. Um, so it's it is really important. We're so far behind, you know, where you know, the learnings and repetitive learnings in Australia, um, because it does take years of of change, you know, behaviours. And, you know, we have campaigns in all the service stations across the UK in in May, but it's gonna take a lot more than that. And yeah, I think it's really looking after our children, looking after ourselves as well as you know, what you're doing on the farm.

Making Sun Safety Part Of Farming

Sarah Bolt 42:38

I think um what I'm sort of going through my head at the moment is that um as an industry, we're all um feel that we need to be resilient and strong and and actually we're therefore not very good about talking about health, mental health, and all of those sorts of things. And and it's actually thinking about how we can change that culture, that it's actually it's all right not to not to or it's all right to be able to talk about these things and actually share um concerns and and and actually talk about it. So I think that's what's sort of kind of running through my mind at the moment that how can we keep this conversation going after this podcast?

Susanna Daniels 43:28

Yeah, and when we did all this work um in 2025, we created posters and um you know, bespoke posters for the agricultural industries because we just felt it was really, really important that um, and and uh you know, some of them are aimed at the younger generation as well. Um, and we've got social media assets that aimed at the farming industry. Um, because yeah, it's really important. Um you know, it's it's you know, important that we've got to sort of teach these messages, but but Be open about it, you know, have sunscreen available. If you're working on a larger farm, have it available for your staff. But also, you know, making sure that you're looking after your you know yourself. Because if you're not looked after, then who's going to look after your farm?

Sarah Bolt 44:16

I think that's a a really good message. And I I really, really like that. And I think it's it's what we need to really be thinking about. And I guess it's just a um sort of a bit of a plea to the the industry um people that are uh listening to this podcast and not necessarily farming themselves as to actually thinking about how they can broach this subject on farm and and how they can perhaps talk about it and keep the keep the subject alive, as it were.

Andrew Jones 44:47

That's a very good point. I mean, as you say, I mean, if you don't look after yourself, who else will or look after then the farm? You know, it's not just skin cancer, but anything like that. It is ultimately your health is what matters, isn't it? Um, but obviously we're here today to talk about skin cancer. And as I say, when I was originally approached a year ago, I was more than happy to do it because it's just something that's not talked about enough here. And it I guess it's only because of my experience in Oz that uh made me much more aware of it, and even then I don't know it all at all, don't get me wrong, but made me much more aware of it and was more than happy to do it because say as an industry here, it just doesn't get talked about. I don't, you know, I've never heard anyone sort of be on their radar that it's something they should be talking about. And as you say, the last couple of years, if if you know, if we're to be believed we're supposed to be getting, you know, longer, uh hotter, drier summers, therefore this is going to become more prevalent. So let's start doing the good things now to start putting, you know, actioning it now so that you know you're getting the best chance possible for your skin.

Susanna Daniels 45:52

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I've heard oncologists say that they've had patients who have been perplexed when they've been, you know, had a diagnosis of melanoma that's spread, you know, throughout their body, and they've sort of said, Well, I've never been on a beach, I've never sunbathed, um, and surprised that, you know, discussing never been abroad, but actually it's just being aware of the dangers of the sun um and the sun in this country, and it's just that burning, and particularly, you know, as we've spoken about burning in when you're younger years, that's really, really critical.

UK Melanoma Numbers And Treatment

Andrew Jones 46:25

We've said it's um about it's the fifth most common cancer in the UK. What does that mean in terms of real stats for people listening?

Susanna Daniels 46:34

Um, so one in 35 men and one in 41 women in the UK will now be diagnosed with melanoma skin cancer in their lifetime. Um, so that doesn't mean you're gonna die from melanoma, and if you're looking around at 35 men, that one of you will, you so one of you will get it at some point. Um, but it just melanoma is the most serious form of skin cancer because the it has the highest mortality rate, so people can die from it. However, if you catch it early, it will it's it's more about dealing with it at that stage and and you will be cured. Most people are cured if it's caught early.

Andrew Jones 47:16

What is the treatment for most people if they catch it early? Is it just simply removal or yeah, it's surgery.

Susanna Daniels 47:22

So it is removal. Um, but the risk is that it can spread to other parts of your body. Um, and so uh and that's something that if you did have a melanoma, you'd be monitored for as well. And you also will need to be monitoring your skin. But if you have had a melanoma, you're at risk of further melanomas um because of your skin tone, really, um, because that that's what you're at risk, you know, you you are more at risk. So it's something you do need to be careful. Um, so because if a family member has melanoma, it doesn't mean it's not normally, most cases it's not a genetic thing. It's just that you've inherited a skin tone. Um, so that's why you might be more, you know, just as likely or at risk of getting, not just as lightly, but at risk of getting a melanoma or another cancer.

The Five S’s And Final Advice

Andrew Jones 48:12

So really it's got to be reaffirmed the message of the old slip slop slap, hasn't it? It it people have just got to start looking after themselves and think about this on a more, you know, as a more regular part of their routine, not just during those hot days, but maybe from April onwards, monitor the UV on the on the various different phone apps, weather apps on their phone. You said is above three, was it on the UV, to um ensure that they start using it? Use something with a high SPF, with a good star rating, um, ideally one that you're applying every couple of hours. And if I remember right, is it you ideally you should put it on about half an hour before you go out in the sun at the beginning of the day?

Susanna Daniels 48:53

Yeah, you should. You should be doing that ideally. Um, but you do what, you know, you have to do what works with you as well. But second, but definitely the reapplication is really, really important. Um, and you know, don't be thinking if you notice something on your skin that that you've definitely got a melanoma or another skin cancer. I honestly, in most cases, it will be nothing, but do get yourself checked out. It's really important to check your skin um and and and contact your GP if you notice a new or a changing mole or lesion um or something that just looks a little bit odd to you. Uh yeah, nine in ten cases are preventable. So do look after yourselves.

Andrew Jones 49:36

So uh just looking at it, I think it's time we uh pull this to a close. So um any last words of wisdom from yourself, Susanna?

Susanna Daniels 49:45

Uh no, I just I accept I I I hope that we can continue to work with the farming industries just to ensure that we can and we're there to help and support. We've got lots of information on our website about awareness. We've got posters, we've got social media assets. So, yeah, let's support each other in sharing those important messages about sun safety and knowing your skin.

Andrew Jones 50:07

Sarah.

Sarah Bolt 50:09

I think it's highlighted to me how actually it is a preventative disease and that the the risks um are quite high for um people that spend a lot of time outside, but actually we can do so much for ourselves to to prevent it. And I think it's um something that perhaps shouldn't should be included um in any sort of farm health and safety risk assessment. I think that it's not something that I've ever thought of before when talking to farmers on on that topic, and perhaps it's something you know that does need to come into it, and just saying um about providing um sunscreen for employees, I think is a really nice thing that farmers are able to do to help in that with that prevention.

Andrew Jones 51:08

Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, as you say, um when I agreed with this, it was, you know, having the experience I've had. Um and really that's what I was gonna say. I mean, it it is looking after yourself. Look, I'm just as guilty as the next person, undoubtedly. Um, and you know, the kids are sent to in the summer, must have sunscreen, must have a hat, and then do I do it myself? Well, I always got a hat on, but do I um uh a cap on, but do I put the sunscreen on? No. Um, and and uh you know, it isn't it isn't unusual maybe once, twice a year for the back of my neck to get burnt because I don't apply that sunscreen, must do better. Um, but really it comes down to I'll I'll mention it again, if nothing else, remember the five S's. So slip on a shirt, slop on some sunscreen, slap on a hat, ideally broad-brimmed, um, seek some shade and slide on some sunnies to protect your eyes. I mean, it's really important. And and while this podcast is is you know aimed at the dairy industry, I think everything we said here should apply to anybody and everybody. So if you've got any friends, family listening to um uh outside the industry that you think this is worth them listening to, then please share it because it's just as relevant to them as it is to people in the industry. This is something that affects potentially can affect anybody. It just happens that obviously, from the the work uh melanoma focus have done, that those in the agricultural industry are more prone to not doing some of the right things than doing the right things. And that's what we as an industry need to be talking about, hence why we're here today. And I was more than happy to do this. Um, but uh on that note, I guess it's time to draw it to a close. So I guess it's uh a goodbye from me.

Susanna Daniels 52:57

It's a goodbye from me, and thank you so much, Susanna. It's an absolute pleasure. Lovely lovely speaking to you both.

Legal Disclaimer And Goodbye

Andrew Jones 53:03

Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to the ChewintheCud Podcast, a podcast for the UK dare industry brought to you from the southwest of England and listened to around the world. Now for the really boring bit, I'm afraid, the legal disclaimer. The information provided during this podcast has been prepared for general information purposes only and does not constitute advice. The information must not be relied upon for any purpose and no representation or warranty is given to its accuracy, completeness, or otherwise. Any reference to other organizations, businesses or products during this podcast are not endorsements or recommendations of ChewintheCud Limited. The views of Andrew Jones are personal and may not be the views of ChewintheCud Ltd, and the views of Sarah Bolt are personal and may not be the views of Kingsay Farming and Conservation Limited and any affiliated companies. For more information on the podcast and details of services offered by ChewintheCud Limited, visit www.chewinthecud.com. Thank you and goodbye.