Stump The Guru Podcast

Why They’re Not Calling You Back (And How to Fix It)

• Ari Galper

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0:00 | 31:06

The problem isn’t them -- it’s the pressure they feel from traditional follow-ups. 

I’ll teach you how to create a process where prospects feel safe to re-engage without feeling chased. 

It’s about shifting the dynamic from pursuit to collaboration.

In this month’s Stump The Guru show, I’ll tackle one of the most frustrating challenges in selling: Why prospects go silent.

I've made it my life’s mission to create the clarity that is missing in the traditional sales process, through decades of working with thousands of business owners all over the world, refining Trust-Based Selling into a true art form:

· Stop "chasing" ghosts (leads that never call you back!)

· Make the sale in ONE conversation, without pressure

· Stop selling, create deep trust instead

I’ve taken my mission one step further and created a livestream show called “Stump The Guru’” -- where you get the opportunity to jump on live and ask me your toughest sales questions that you’d love an answer for.

Get Ari's latest best-selling book "Trust In A Split Second!" for FREE along with a Complimentary Lead & Sales Growth Consultation (Value $995.00) at http://www.UnlockTheGame.com/FreeConsult, and join him as a guest on his podcast "Stump The Guru" and get your chance to ask Ari one-on-one questions, fill in the form to be clickable to this link: https://links.arigalper.com/widget/form/rh5YanDqzZqPHVBCKlKG

SPEAKER_00

Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with your host, Ari Galpa, the world's number one authority on trust-based selling and the creator of Unlock the Game. This monthly podcast will bring you guests from virtually every industry unrehearsed to try and stump Ari with their most difficult sales challenges. This podcast is for business owners, financial advisors, entrepreneurs, and sales executives. The guests on this show have only one goal in mind: to stump Ari. And Ari has one goal in mind: to overturn the notion of selling as we know it today by building trust between buyers and sellers.

SPEAKER_05

Hey everybody, welcome. It's Ari Galp here. Galp right here with uh trust-based selling is Stump the Guru. Hope you're all doing well. Uh, if you're new to the show, what we do here is um, you don't know, we specialize in trust-based selling uh for the last two decades. We've been challenging the sales processing game in whole so many different ways. We have clients all over the world, subscribers. We have our new community called Selling with Trust. Uh, if you're not in our community, you you should. It's free to join. Uh, that's rvegalper.com forward slash free. And uh and this is your opportunity today to sort of jump on live if you're around to ask me a live question. We do live coaching here. Uh, it's called Stump the Guru for a reason. Uh, we have folks that are are want to typically ask me a question about a challenge they might have, and uh, I share insights that from the ground level that we see every day with folks who are challenged around complex sales situations, chasing opportunities. Uh, as you know, we are what I call the trust recession right now, where it's more difficult than ever to convert to convert leads to clients because uh we're we're in a commoditized age, so to speak. So we're being shopped and the game has changed. And if you're selling still selling the old way, you're gonna have a real difficult time staying ahead of the curve. Um, so this this show is also a podcast. You can listen to on Spotify, and it's a chance to really kind of have me share insights and unravel what I'm working on. Uh, I also have Sam here as well, my business partner will also be available to have us chat together. Um, but I'm gonna start the show by first of all um mentioning, of course, the the app that we have now, which is our community, real quick. Again, to emphasize if you want to access our content and get involved with other trust-based business owners and network, uh, please join us, regalber.com forward slash free. Um, so today's theme is this whole notion around the idea that having to chase a lead after first meeting, why they don't commit to us, why they say things like, I want to think about it, um, call me next week, and all of a sudden they go into a black hole and we're stuck chasing them. And we've been sold for years by marketing agencies and systems and CRM models that our job is to accept that process and build essentially a nurturing sequence, build a follow-up email. Um, follow-up has become expected as normal, that they should be in your pipeline, have stages, move them from stage one to stage two, follow up to proposal, and then we spend all of our time inside that chasing process, hopefully at the end, squeezing out a client. And a lot of my work has been designed to counter that. Where if you build trust with someone, you don't have to follow up with them at all. There is no sequence for nurturing because if they're qualified and they're the problem they want to solve, then they'll commit to you to schedule a time on your calendar for a next step in your process. But let me tell you why most people get stuck in chasing leads and needing more leads to meet their numbers because of certain behaviors we've been taught to do up until now. Uh, for instance, a lot of folks who are in a low volume, high margin model, what I call experts, they have what I call the expert syndrome, where they have a need to prove their expertise to a new opportunity in a first meeting. They want to they educate them, they provide value, they do what I call free consulting. And the problem with that is when you provide information to somebody who doesn't know you yet, that information now fills up in their brain and they have to think about what you gave them, which leaves no room at all for them to trust you. Trust and proving your value are not correlated anymore. What I mean by that is value delivery in itself has been commoditized. It's not trust building. Here's why because everybody else does the same in your market. Everyone tries to deliver value, deliver education. It's now become so commoditized, it's expected. That's why value delivery is not trust building anymore. So your goal is to stop delivering value, stop educating your prospects, and instead provide them with clarity, deep clarity inside their own issues, inside their own challenges. What I call go down the iceberg, learn how to build trust with folks, and stop working on this is hard to say, but stop working on relationship building. Your job is not to build a relationship with them pre-sale, it is post-sale, but not pre-sale. Why? Because the word relationship is loaded, it forces you to have them like you. You have to create chemistry with them. And relationships in the real world take a lot of time to get the trust, and that creates a very long sales cycle. So if you've been conditioned and trained by your sales managers or your partner, or you've got to where you are right now because you are really good at relationship building, that is now a problem because the market shifted. Your leads are not reaching out to you to build a relationship with you. They're not looking for a new friend, nothing personal. They're looking to solve a problem. But what do we do? We overlay a social structure on top of the conversation, which removes the professional structure. And now all of a sudden, you're trying you're trying to create what I call a peer-to-peer connection, a peer-to-peer level. And that creates social banter, social connection. And they're going to be nice to you as well because you started the process. Uh, and but the problem with that is you're no longer the doctor, you're now their buddy, you're now their friend. And there's deep-seated need inside of us is for them to like us. And so you're waiting for them to like you, and you think that the end of your call, if it goes well, there's chemistry, that was an awesome call, and they'll take your call when you call them next week. Now, when they left that call, you have warm feelings about it. You have what I call the hopium drug in their body. It felt great, it was a great conversation, right? When they leave your call, they don't have those feelings, they don't have this warm, bad feelings of oh, what a great guy. I really liked him. He's so nice. I think I'm gonna choose him over anybody else. See, we think the relationship part is the glue that creates trust with people, and it does if you're willing to wait a very long time yourself likely to get there. Okay, so but your goal is to stop relationship building altogether and learn how to build trust instead, like a doctor does with a patient. Bedside manner, empathy, trust-based questions, not talking, not being the pharmacist too early on, whatever one's which everyone does. And that takes a shift in your thinking because you have to let go of what you think you've been doing has been correct all these years to catch up with where the world's at right now. And in many, in many cases, your prospects are frazzled. They already have information about you, they know what you do, they've already got value from your free content you delivered online, your social media. They've heard your podcast, they already get what you do. They're not calling you to challenge your credibility, they're not calling to challenge your efficacy. They can't prove you're good at what you do until when, until after they're a client, not before they're a client. So I want to emphasize the reason why you're forced to chase people and chase leads is because most likely you are quote selling in your process in the way you've always been doing it. But if you shift your model to a trust-based model, they will commit you on the first meeting to schedule on your calendar for a next step in your own roadmap process. So we'll leave it there for there for now, and we'll open up the show and see who's online to come in and ask me a question. Steve, how's it going back there? I don't see Steve. Okay. Uh Steve, you can come on back. Uh, if not, I want to try and let somebody in here if I can on my own. Uh let's see if I can. Hey, well, we'll let's see. I see Patrick here. Hey, let me let's see if I can do this myself. Add awesome. I just added Patrick, I think. Patrick, are you are you coming in? I see your name back here, and you're live. If you can hear me, Patrick, say hello. I can hear you.

SPEAKER_04

Uh actually good, how are you? I'm good. Haven't seen you in a while. Yeah, likewise. You're looking great. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, things are really good.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Good, good. So I have my son that works with me, and he's uh embracing everything you're you're uh putting out. I just want you to know that.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

We're next generation, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so um yeah, we're still baffled why people won't uh get back in touch with us after they've had an opportunity to get the initial uh information. And either um what typically happens is they'll offload it to someone else to make the decision. So maybe you could speak to that, how to how to avoid that. I normally tell them, well, I need you to make the decision, don't do this to us, but uh I'll let you I'll let you uh answer it.

SPEAKER_05

Let's go back for a second. You mentioned the word you provided them information.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

What information did you provide them on your first thing?

SPEAKER_03

Uh how much they they uh just on a surface level, uh what we think uh we could do in terms of uh reducing certain expenses. And you know, we have enough information to tell them that, and then it becomes a whole issue of well, do they believe that or not? If they believe it, we'll get the information.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, hold on a minute now.

SPEAKER_03

It is a trust issue.

SPEAKER_05

What what you're doing there, which you may not be aware of, Patrick, is you're providing them advice, insights, and concepts and information to help them with their problem, I think in that first meeting. Is that right? Is what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think so, although I try very hard to focus on the problem, uh, which is to say, here's here's the problem we've uncovered. Now, do you want to deal with this now, or do you want to wait six months when it's cost you another$60,000?

SPEAKER_05

I understand. I think you're you're definitely problem focused, but I'm also hearing from what you just said, you're also providing the prescription with some ideas, some context. And therein lies the problem, Patrick, is that your job is not to provide them any information on that first meeting. Your job is only to unpack their situation, yeah, help them understand the seriousness of it, and then do you have your roadmap to show them what your process is for how you work, and you save the information you're gonna provide them for the first stage of the next step. Otherwise, if you combine it all together, they feel full, they feel like, wow, I got so much from him that was so helpful. Now I'm gonna go think about it and go somewhere else. So it's hard to untangle that at first because our instinct is to prove to them we know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05

Show them ideas. So consider the idea for a moment of just having deeper questions around the COI cost of an action and help them understand their situation. Is not simple, it's complicated, and walk them through your roadmap. Do you still have that roadmap that we had talked about a while back? Yeah, that visual tool. Make sure you bring that out for your first meetings, that'll kind of solve the problem there.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_05

Thanks. Good to see you again. Take care. Good to see you. All right, excellent. So we're back with the uh stump the guru show. Um, and uh, we're live. This is a chance to jump on, ask me a question. Um, this is all about trust-based selling and um how to avoid getting stuck in the chasing game. That's the theme for today. So we'll we'll bring on Brandon next, and uh Steve's out, so I'll take over myself here, and I'm gonna click on Brandon and see if we can pull him in. Uh Brandon, if you're back there, maybe say hello. And then we'll uh we'll continue on here. If you're trying to get on, um that's okay. We'll uh keep you there. Unmute your mic if you can. And uh if not, I'm gonna bring in Sam. I see Sam here as well. Let me grab Sam. Sam, come on in. I think you're there. There you are. Awesome. Let me just uh take Brandon out here. So good, good. How are you, Sam?

SPEAKER_01

Excellent, thanks. I just got a message from Steve saying he's in damage control, he's got some IT issues, so uh he's trying to get back in very quickly.

SPEAKER_05

Well, the show must go on, and here we are. The show is going on without Steve and no AI either, just A R I, R E. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Well, at least people, at least people know it's live.

SPEAKER_05

It is live, and we are somehow managing through it. Uh, as Steve is back there, which is cool. Okay, so um uh so yeah, so Sam, what you know, Sam has been with me for a long time, uh one of my partners here. Uh, he's a lot of experience on the ground level with challenges with businesses that are low volume, high margin. Uh, and what's your take on the theme from today, from your experience?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I couldn't agree more. I mean, you you're right in the fact that the world has become a little bit uh it's shifted, obviously, and it's conditioned. And the mentality of prospects is that they feel they have all the power, they have all the control, and that you know, they make an inquiry or if they ask somebody, they just think you come to me, right? I'm I'm the guy, I got the money, so therefore, you know, you serve me. So, in many respects, this is a little bit of a battle of control. But if you think about them, their expectations, they're expecting you to come to them, they're expecting you to do educate them to buy all this free consulting, and then they're expecting you to chase them, and they're expecting the follow-up. So, in their head, they're thinking, I don't have to do anything here because I know they're gonna chase me, they're gonna follow me up, and and all that sort of thing. So, from their perspective, they have no urgency, and also in a lot of cases, as you said, they've got a lot of the prescriptions, they've got the medicine, people are the pharmacists and the doctor, they've got a lot of what they need, and of course, that leads to I need to think about it, I've got everything I need now. Let me chew it over.

SPEAKER_05

Sam, I think you said an important word there, and that is the word expectations. And what happens is we don't we try and meet their expectations, and we get sucked into their process, so they're you're right, their expectations are I'm gonna contact this person and get information from them because I know information is portable, I take the information and I can shop around. And the reason why they're thinking like that because they want information first as a way to prevent being sold, they've been so burnt of being sold, they know information is a way to block that process. So, what do we do? We oblige with their expectation, we give them what they want, and off they go. Also, we're trying to if you're trying to re-organize their expectations, realignment to what our expectation is, which is the sale. Here we are trying to battle their expectation, trying to get them to like us and to know us, and it turns out they have no interest in any of that. They're not looking for a relationship, like I said before, they're looking for information to prevent being sold. And I think once you understand where the market's at right now, and you're still trained and conditioned to sell the other way, and you're not having a way to redirect them into your clinic, so to speak, as the doctor, then you'll be in the shopping mall with them and not in a clinic with them, and you'll be stuck, unable to grow.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, and you think about it from this but their perspective, every time they get a call or an outbound reach or anything, you know, in their head they're thinking this person's gonna try and sell me something. Of course, that's why they're ringing me, right? They've got an agenda, so they're already in that mindset thinking I'm gonna be sold to. So, of course, their guard is right up, they're not gonna open up and tell you what their problems are, what their frustrations, because they know that the minute they give anything, then you're gonna jump into, well, let me tell you how I can help, right? So, and the other battle is that they know that your product or your offering is commoditized, there's others that do what you do. So, once again, that whole feeling of I've got all the all the aces, I've got all the cards. But here's another thing that's really crazy is that they're also been in the game for a while, they know the the the strategies of some salespeople. I mean, everybody knows that sales 101 is build rapport, right? And I remember some of my old earlier, earlier, old school mentors will say, Sam, find common ground, right? So they know that as soon as someone opens up typically and starts saying I remember that, find common ground, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, it's why you go see a doctor, they're not looking for common ground, they're saying where does it hurt?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. That so they they know, right? So, yeah, um, but I think what you just said there was perfect. I mean, doctors don't do any follow-up, don't I do any chasing? That I do you get a call from a doctor, you got their attention. I mean, it's yeah, it's tiny.

SPEAKER_05

They work on a buy appointment only model, yeah. That's the model you and I and others teach our clients is to shift their process and system and operating model to a buy appointment only business where you build a system out where you move somebody from step A to step B on your calendar, not your CRM. You see, what's interesting about this when people fall into the trap into chasing mode, the the salesperson moves them from stage one to stage two, following up as if that's a stage. That's not a stage, that's a black hole. The stage should be from call one to call two, not call one to following up stage. They're already lost by that in most cases. Sure, after a year of pursuing them, they might come out of nowhere, but really you want to wait that long and lose what's everything in between that, and that's the real shift, especially in now in the age of AI and technology, where everyone's trying to build more automated ways to contact people, especially in the sales process, automated text, automated emails, and they think that you win the game through follow-up, which is completely wrong. You win the game through trust building at hello, which is so counterintuitive and so contrarian in the age where everyone's buying AI tools to try and solve the follow-up problem. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, totally, totally. And and you know, that it gets down to the similar things, you know, about the contacts. I mean, look, a lot of people don't even answer their phones anymore. They know that a lot of calls are random, that possibly an AI. So, you know, the the scene, it's just not efficient anymore. So the the efficient model is by appointment only. That way it avoids like even if you did manage to call people, chance uh could be the wrong time, or you leave a message, then they're calling you back. It's it's just such a just it just doesn't work. Whereas having that appointment, first of all, it does filter out a few people. I mean, if they're serious and they know they're gonna discuss their problem, just like you would a doctor, you'd make an appointment, right?

SPEAKER_05

If they're not willing, if your leads are not willing from the first meeting to schedule a next step with you, that means you did something wrong, not them.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

Let's say I was lost at hello, not at the end of the call, okay? Because somewhere in your process, you defaulted back to the behaviors we're suggesting not to do, which is unraveling what you think you should be doing, which is the whole chemistry relationship thing, becoming their friend, giving value thing. And the more you let go of that way of thinking, the more people are open to working with you because they trust you. If they trust you, they will schedule with you. If they don't trust you, you have no appointment next. That's the that's the one factor that is missing for huge amounts of opportunities that being lost right now. Uh real quick, Sam, is there anyone else back there, Steve? Is Brandon, I think, was sitting back there as well. I think he no, not there. Okay, cool. Okay, so let me let me just check with Brandon one more.

SPEAKER_06

I don't even know if you can hear me or not because it's all the whole world looks full floated just now, 360 degrees. But everybody that's in the waiting room has no no cameras and no microphones are listed for anybody. So okay, they're they're lurking.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, I see. I do see Brandon here. Mike is on, so I'm gonna try him real quick. If you wouldn't mind pulling back, Steve, and I'll pull him in real quick. Yeah, sure. Let's bring Brandon on and see what goes. Let's see if the uh Brandon, if you're there, you get one. Hey, I'll he is back there. Excellent. Is your camera working or not, Brandon?

SPEAKER_02

I cannot get this to work. Uh, the interface, I'm uh technically challenged. Uh, I tried to come in to just view, but the only way I could get in is to come in and ask a question live.

SPEAKER_05

That's all right. We believe you're for real. You're not AI. So you got Sam and I here. So what's what tell us about your business and what you do and your challenge.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm in the financial advisory business, Ari. And uh, we've had some sessions in the past, and just lately uh I've been working with a different ad agency, and they're uh people are using a Roth conversion calculator, getting uh on my calendar, few and far between. Uh, but they're coming to me using a calculator, right? And so I try and diffuse just giving them the calculator results that this calculator is part of a bigger picture of what you may need, and ask them what is the real reason why you're trying to figure out how to convert an IRA account.

SPEAKER_05

So let me see if I get this right. You have a lead, go on your website or fill out a calculator somewhere, and they can't get the results unless they have a call with you. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, so they show up on the call. I assume it's a zoom meeting of some sort. How does the meeting begin? How does it start? What are they saying to you?

SPEAKER_02

So I set the framework that we help people uh with Roth conversions, but what we find is it's generally a small part of a bigger problem. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_05

Is that what you say from the beginning? You're that way?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I set the framework, uh, and then we go into a little more framework about uh the time frame as well that we have.

SPEAKER_05

All right, so so let me throw an idea out to you, Brennan, okay?

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_05

When they show up on the call, don't provide a framework at all. Okay, here's what you say instead. You say, nice to meet you, nice to meet you as well. Don't mention the calculator, don't mention R R A, don't mention anything with of their previous experience with you. Just simply say this. If you wouldn't mind, take a step back for a moment. Walk me through your background, your situation, up to your current financial concerns you have that that cause you to want to fill the calculator out. We'll go from there. Would that be okay with you?

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

From the beginning, go backwards and give them a chance to tell you their story. Don't start where they left off in their process, okay? Because they want someone they can trust to tell the story to. So don't you don't have to frame it with the calculator. Just start like the doctor. If it's okay with you, take a step back for a second, John. Walk me through your background, the big patriot situation, and your financial concerns that brought you here will go from there. Would that be okay with you? Take your fingers like this over your mouth, sit back like on your chair like a doctor. And give them create space. Don't frame anything. Create an open space to allow them to feel comfortable downloading on you and telling you their story. Add hello.

SPEAKER_04

What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02

I like it. Yeah, I'm stuck on this calculator thing and uh then trying to fade back, but don't even mention it.

SPEAKER_05

Don't mention anything. It's kind of like this. Here's it, here's the metaphor. When you go see a second opinion for a doctor, he doesn't ask you the first opinion. He doesn't care about the first opinion. He just says, What does it hurt? Same thing with you. Who cares where they came from? All you know is they have a financial concern. Start with nice your trust building here. Nice to meet you, nice to meet you as well. If you wouldn't mind, Mike, take a step back for a second, walk me through your background situation up to your current concerns. We'll go from there. Would that be okay with you? And sit back and give them space, let them open up to you, then you can do your thing from there.

SPEAKER_02

Got it.

SPEAKER_05

Great question. And this is where we get stuck oftentimes using these frames to try and control the process. And all they really want is to trust somebody. So that is a great scenario, and I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you so much, by the way. Brand. Um are you our in our community by a chance in our in our new community? Have you joined it yet?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Yep. Download the app in the community.

SPEAKER_05

Perfect. All right. Then I'll see you inside. Okay. Take care. All right. Well, Sam, that was a that was a great question he asked because that is so classic where we've been trained to fight the battle to try and frame them against their frame. And now we're and he was fighting it because that's what he was taught to do. But what we're trying to do is unshackle that that that structure and allow the person to feel drop the guard to feel comfortable opening up to us. I think that's what trust is about is not creating resistance, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Another example of that that prospect thinking they're in control, these guys are gonna serve me, and if there's one person, there's plenty, and uh let me know what you got.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. So I think we have to understand that the patient should not control the process of the doctor.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that's the key.

SPEAKER_05

The doctor must be the authority, have the structure and the process that the patient abides by and conforms with and becomes compliant with. They may not like it, but it's the best for them because we're the experts and they're not, and if you're not pre-positioned that way, you will be stuck fighting a battle at a pure level, and they won't be able to respect you of all things. Respect comes from authority of positioning and from your ability to build trust in that first meeting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. You don't go to a doctor and you don't say, Look, I've done some research, this is what I've got, this is what I need. Just give me that bottle of medicine over there, and we're all good. Thanks very much. Thompson's gonna say, Are you on drugs?

SPEAKER_05

Not my drugs, but some other drugs. So, look, on that note, we'll say goodbye for now, Sam. Thanks for showing up today. Appreciate that. I always can count on you, and uh, we'll uh see everybody next time our live. This will be live uh in our recording in our in the podcast on Spotify or on YouTube as well. Uh, if you're not inside of our community, I'm not sure what you're doing, but make sure you join, go to a regalper.com forward slash free. It's free to join. You can get my course for free, mastering the mindset inside there. You can network with other business owners who are trust based. And we are going to be growing a global network all over the world with this in local chapters, local cities around the world. And we're gonna go big around our trust movement. So get into it now while you can. Talk soon, everybody. Sounding off. See everybody soon. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00

We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of Stump the Guru and that you've discovered some new trust-based selling strategies that you can apply directly to your sales process. You can get access to Ari's trust-based selling 60-minute masterclass at www.unlockthegame.com forward slash video. And if you want to go one step further, you can order his latest book, Unlock the Sales Game, and get a free one-on-one sales growth consultation at www.unlockthame.com. Before we say goodbye for now, if you enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to review this podcast. It's easy. Just scroll down to the bottom of Dump the Guru Podcast within Apple Podcasts until you reach ratings and reviews. Click one of the five stars under tap to rate to leave a rating. Thanks so much, and we'll see you on the next show.

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Ari Galper

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