Fight in the Shade
Two guys figuring out how to honor God in marriage, fatherhood, work, play, and every other time and place we find ourselves. Be prepared for random quotes from movies, plenty of shots at our brokenness, laughter, 80s references, and attempts to discover the Holy in all of life.
Fight in the Shade
Sermon on the Mount 1 E88
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Skipping over the Beatitudes, Alan & Shawn discuss how Jesus expands the Law with His teaching on the Sermon on the Mount. If you are not familiar with the SOTM, it's easily one of the most foundational pieces of Jesus's teachings in the New Testament.
Stay in the Fight!
All right. Fight in the shade. What's today? March twenty-third? Yeah, man, it's twenty-third. Twenty-third of March. Where were you? We haven't where were you the last time we did a podcast episode? Golly, huh?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, we we had a kind of a revelation realization, however you want to call it, uh a few two or three weeks ago, uh, that we're just the reason we never get anything posted really in January, February is we're just small. We're both involved in retreat ministry. Um there there's new weird things that go on. I took vacation with ice storm. A lot of things happened and it was like, Lord, what's going on here?
SPEAKER_03Have we done a podcast since uh Ice Storm?
SPEAKER_01I think this is the first one of 2026. No way, we haven't recorded the whole December 20th. I'm looking on our episodes, December 23rd, 2025. That's the last one, dude. Yeah. It's the last one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're not just people that never take down their Christmas decorations. That's cool. That's cool. It's past that happy.
SPEAKER_01Hey, um, I I told when did I tell those guys in the Retreat Mission when I shared that in the group me? I don't know if you saw it. They were they were sharing all the uh Bible study opportunities, and I said, hey, and there's a podcast that Alan Johnson and I've been doing three years now. Uh I want to tell you, this June, this June 8th, will be our four-year anniversary.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01From our first episode going on.
SPEAKER_03When you posted that in the Retreat Group Me, how many guys like the post? Like three. Like two. Two guys. Thanks. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys. Oh my gosh. That's funny. Um yeah, it was it was a little it's an afterthought, man. I tell you what, we were we were I think I told you this. We were going through the podcast room the other day because we got a couple things to hang up on the wall at the podcast at Bayou Studios there. Bayou Studios. Uh uh at the Wesley Foundation and International Headquarters. I opened this drawer and there's like 12 fight in the shade hats in there, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like finding something from like back when you went to high school. It feels so long ago that we made those. And and then I'm like, golly, we haven't recorded in 2026. And we're like two weeks away from Easter. Oh no, there's so much I gotta do for Easter.
SPEAKER_00Oh boy, you sound like a senior pastor. Dude, senior pastor. I know I gotta get all of my pastoral staff together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Wrangling those idiots. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It's just me. I know. I know. Uh yeah, two people liked it. I just went back and saw it. Two people. Let's see. Who was that? Shout him out, man, for those two. Uh Stephen Nockin and Byron Bailey. Hey, Byron Bailey. Oh, man. Here we go.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Stephen was he's Judas, right? Oh, he was. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03I felt so bad. I was talking about him in the room like that night.
SPEAKER_01Not to us, but you know, for us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure that uh Judas was in the bathroom or whatever, you know. And I didn't realize he was sitting right in front of me until like five minutes later.
SPEAKER_02I was like, oh man, you're right here.
SPEAKER_00So I was talking about him like he wasn't back, like he was still missing. Like Judas is just gone.
SPEAKER_01Like he's still in the bathroom now. So there was a moment. Uh for those of you who missed it, there was a moment. I'm not gonna go into all the details. There's a moment where we're we're kind of doing the um the passion, the lat the last night of Jesus. That's a reenactment. And Judas is supposed to come out with this with the guards. And he has a speaking line. Yeah, he has a line and everything. He's supposed to kiss Jesus and everything. And um Judas was in the bathroom and his moment came, and the guards went without him. So there was no kiss. He was having another moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and uh it would have been hilarious if one of the guards would have gone, wait, where is Judas? Yeah, yeah. We don't even know who which one of you guys is Jesus?
SPEAKER_01Judas isn't here. So that's what I love about the guards. We told them, hey, when you hear this line, that's your go. Yeah. And dude, you deliver the line, and boom, they went. Judas who.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. But theoretically, they would have not known who Jesus was. They really, it would have been great if they'd have grabbed the wrong guy.
SPEAKER_01Oh god, they'd have grabbed you.
SPEAKER_02Anybody else in a med sheet, you know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then Judas runs up, not him, you idiots. You know.
SPEAKER_02Wait, wait.
SPEAKER_01The other one. Here I'll kiss him. Somebody's getting the crap beat out of them. Let John go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh man.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's so funny. But like we said, I mean, nobody knew that. I mean, because there's some other things that, you know, not that we messed up a bunch of stuff, but there's just other bits and pieces of it that you do or don't do, depending on how well you're staffed or whatever.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's that's that's how you know the Lord is uh definitely active, is um you've got a bunch of knuckleheads, uh us included. Oh, for sure. We're cheap knuckleheads in chief, um uh running this thing, and and it's like guys guys get to experience the risen savior. So it's uh yeah uh despite our knuckleheadedness.
SPEAKER_03Right, right. I mean God works for good in all things. Then obviously he's bigger than our attempts to try to communicate. Yeah, absolutely. It is really funny though that he was in the bathroom of all places. Oh, I know, I know. This is awesome.
SPEAKER_01Good times.
SPEAKER_03Definitely.
SPEAKER_01So, yeah, anyways, uh So here's 2026, we're we're getting after it, uh finally. And uh, best of intentions, you've had stuff come up. We we've tried to do this a couple other uh days to sit down. You've had things come up, I had things come up. And it's like no, and we almost had things come up today for me, at least in my world. And uh I had people call in and I'm like, I I I gotta do this. Uh if I gotta close the creamery, I'll close the creamery. I'm I'm gonna sit down and record. I gotta keep the schedule. So man. But but thank you, Lord. You provided people showed up, shifts are covered, burgers are being made. Burgers are made. The people are getting what they want, yeah. It's spring break, you know. It's it's spring break here in Washtop for for the parish. Is it Washtop Parish this week? Yeah, so they're um kids are out, man. Hopefully they're kids are out looking for looking for burgers. Burgers and ice cream, you know.
SPEAKER_02Oh anyway.
SPEAKER_03You got Danny Zuko stopping by later, you know. Danny Zuko, wow.
SPEAKER_01Oh I never liked that movie. Danny Zuko's special. Yes. Oh man. Anyway, okay. So uh we're back, and and the plan is what we were trying to get twelve, thirteen? What do we think we're doing?
SPEAKER_03I don't think we should say anything about our plan other than this. Uh we have a plan that's centered around Matthew five through seven. Oh, like it's talking through basically everything after what we read today, which is the 17 through 20 uh of chapter 5. And we do have kind of a 12-episode sort of plan. However, however, we also have a plan to do eight episodes in June, eight episodes in the fall. Please to adjust the plan. If necessary. But if we stay on the horse here, I think we can power through some stuff because theoretically it's a long time till June. I mean, we have all of April and all of May. But twelve episodes would in fact mean we have to double up a couple of things. Double up, but you know, which is we could do it. Hey man, you know, the creamery, y'all make doubles, right? Oh yeah. Double scoops, double burgers. Double burgers, double patty melt? Double patty melt. So doubling is possible. It's possible.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, so if you're not familiar with with Matthew 5 through 7, it's what most people call the Sermon on the Mount. Um, we had a really quick discussion this morning about Luke. What is that, Luke? Is it eight or six, I think. Six, somewhere in there where Sermon on the Plane. Um in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus is sitting down, and the Sermon on the Plane, he's standing up. Um the Chosen kind of mingles both of those things together. Um we've kind of had our own little discussion this morning. I can't watch the chosen anymore now. It's not it's not 100% accurate. Not authentic.
SPEAKER_01Um I'm joking, right? Uh no, so for for those who wondered, duh, how could it be a hundred percent accurate? We you know, it's it's meant to be uh like a engagement. Yeah, it's an engagement, it's a sermon, yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's what people gotta understand is that that show is a sermon. And so just like your pastor's not one hundred percent accurate all the time, or is there some interpretation going on? Interpretation, that's the word, yeah. That's what's happening with that really, really, really good show. Excellent show. So anyway, um, so yeah, we we talked about a little bit of those differences and we're not I mean, I think maybe down the line we may we may talk about that some more, but the main difference between those two is in one in one he's sitting down and one he's standing up. And so this one, we're both sitting down, so we're gonna stay in Matthew uh well and and the good news is even if you're not a super uh familiar person with the Bible, you've heard parts of the Sermon on the Mount.
SPEAKER_01You know the Lord's Prayer, that's in Matthew 6, right? That that's part of it. Um if you've ever heard the the story of the two people who build the houses, right? The wise the wise builder builds his house on the rock, the foolish one on the sand, that's out of Matthew 7. Uh judge not, you know, unless lest ye be judged. That's kind of the old uh that's stuck in my head in the King James Um Walk a mile in my shoes type situation. Yeah, so there's some great things that I mean, there's some one I don't want to say one-liners, but you know, there's these simple little adages that have been repeated over and over, and people are like, okay, I you know, I didn't know that. That's that's where it comes from.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they've they've made their way into common wisdom and people don't even know sometimes where that stuff comes from. That's right. Like I like to remind people, and I'll I'll I'll tell my wife Shauna this all the time that really like we have the best story, and all the other good stories in the world copy our story to a degree. Yeah. There I mean it you name it. Name me a name me a great story, and I promise you, within five minutes, I can tell you something in that story that they took from the great story. E.T. E.T. Alright, five minutes. Yeah, you gotta throw it out there.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, I didn't I thought you were challenging me.
SPEAKER_03Does E.T. he makes a sacrifice play for Elliot, right? Or does Elliot sacrifice for him? Or it's kind of a both and like there, right?
SPEAKER_01They they put it on the line for each other.
SPEAKER_03Elliot gets sick, right? In E.T. There's a healing. Yeah, there's a healing. Oh, there's a resurrection. Resurrection. Ascension at the end. Ascension? Talk to me, man. Oh, let's go. You know, someone from the stars. So come on, man. Heaven to earth. I do this all day long.
SPEAKER_01I I know. You're just getting started. Um there's also a um the golden rule do unto others before they do it to you. Well, that's not it. That's not it.
SPEAKER_03Is that in Sermon?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03In that in in the uh the latter part of the Sermon on the Mount. I was gonna say it, but then I thought it was in another place, though. No, no, no, no. You better find it, you better find it now, Preacher Minutes.
SPEAKER_01I better find it. You better find it. Sorry I couldn't quote chapter and verse for you there off the top of my head. Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna bet it's not. It's in seven. Is it in seven? Yeah, yeah. After the ask and it and and uh it will be given to you, seeking you knock, and it will be open to you. It goes on. So next I got it, dude. Just hold on. It's coming, it's coming.
SPEAKER_02You're fine. I just uh was a little prayer.
SPEAKER_01That's right after that, a little later. I do like the the background music, that's good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Matthew seven, Luke 6, 31. I have a page turning here.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Oh yeah, yeah. And uh verse 12, and everything, oh, this is the the new King James No, not New King, New American Standard 2020, so it's a little different. And everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7, 12.
SPEAKER_03You know what I do sometimes, and I think this is okay to admit as a as a preacher.
SPEAKER_02Google it? No. Oh. Chapter and verse, man. It's hard to remember them all. You know?
SPEAKER_03I was gonna Google it to uh mess with you, but um bad news. No, no, no, bad news. What am I reading here for? Um yeah, uh sometimes when people say the golden rule, uh I've I'll just for some reason think the greatest commandment at the same time. Yeah, yeah. And those are actually two different things.
SPEAKER_01Um they are very different things, aren't they? Yeah. Anyway, all right, so we wasted the listener's time. No, no, no. But but hopefully you've you know that there's some familiarity in this. Yeah. And uh and and there's some great teachings that that were incredibly profound, and we're gonna go into why they're profound and and and instrumental in that day. Uh, but they're still just as good today and just as applicable. Like you should spend time with this message. You should spend time with this message.
SPEAKER_03As you said with all the scripture, as just seen by us fumbling around and seven, twelve to prove to each other.
SPEAKER_01Hey, one one more aside, and then we'll get to the the text selector for day. So so when you were going through seminary, you had a preaching class, I guess. And and then you did I teach I taught the preaching classes over. Chuck Norris style, right? Yeah. Um shout out to Chuck Norris, by the way, who recently passed away. Um but then also you you had to do stuff for ordination and you submit things. Did you ever get told just preach one sermon? Like just have one message in your sermon, don't preach two sermons at one time. Uh no, I don't think I ever got told that. Oh, okay. So that's so you know, that was always a warning to us was like, hey, don't don't like have two or and then I read the Sermon on the Mount. I'm like, Jesus laid down twelve different, you know, 13 different messages. Okay. Now I get it, I'm not Jesus, but if I can slip in two, you know. Yeah, that's a good point. If you yeah. You know, if you're what's his central theme here, I guess, and and part of that central theme is what we're gonna talk about, is understanding of the law and and its purpose, and then also um how we how we actually obey God and how we actually follow him. But but I always laughed at that. You know, it's like Jesus would often have more than one message, you know. Did you raise your hand and say that in class? No, no, I I played the game.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he played the game. Oh my god. I played the game. You weren't getting voted off the island. Well, I I knew once I got ordained, it didn't matter what they said. I could I wanted.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't know. I get why they say that, because they want you to be concise and understandable and all that junk, but man, you could make the argument that I mean, if Jesus spoke for more than three sentences, he you know, that was all over. That was m that was multiple sermons. Yeah, he was crushing it. Even the Beatitudes, you could take those line by line and wail on that for forever. So yeah. Anyways, that's aside.
SPEAKER_01I'm all I'm locked in now.
SPEAKER_03Now we're locked in. Now we can actually read the Bible and talk about it, right? No more, no more meandering, no more stupidity. Well, just the Lord. At least for the next five verses. So yeah, so 17. I'm just gonna read it because it's seventeen through twenty, so we're talking about we're talking about four verses actually, and then we'll jump all over that. So do not think that I've come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of these of the least gosh anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Now he does he he says all of that. Like I said, this is in chapter five, so he's already given his Beatitudes, he's already gone into the salt and light type stuff. Then he says this, then after that, he lays into some very specific things that move through the last uh well, I guess two and a half chapters uh that contain this particular sermon.
SPEAKER_01So and and the just some of the context, you know, um Matthew written with a very Jewish perspective, and so Jesus is here um talking about, you know, I didn't come to abolish the law or the prophets. Uh he he has in that setup that we kind of skipped over, we we vaguely referenced there, he has some very Moses vibes. You know, he he comes down off the mountain, he sits down as a teacher, which in the rabbinical tradition they would sit down to teach, which is so not Western, right? So not us. The teacher always stands.
SPEAKER_03You gotta stand up, you gotta point your fingers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03You gotta talk to pound the table a few times. Right. But is that's Jim's instructions to Dwight on how to give a good speech, and he ends up looking like Hitler up there, you know. He gives him this stuff to say in German.
SPEAKER_01Did the people respond to it? Oh yeah, they thought it was wildly awesome. Oh, yeah, see, it it must work. Yeah, it's scary. Uh but but you know, he's got these Moses vibes, and he and he's obviously come to to take the law and to really open it up for them in a new way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and see, that's the thing that we miss, I think, because we'll hear this, and I I think the Pharisees were were worried that he was shaving the law away or they were gonna get rid of it. Yeah, kind of kind of like undercutting them. Here comes one of those hippie preachers again. Right. Right, right. But I think we do the same thing though. We think, oh well, I know Jesus, so none of the other stuff matters anymore, right? We'll kind of like write off the all this other stuff that came before. Right. And and they're like, no, no, no, no, no. Jesus is completing it. So what God said, what God said originally still counts, but nobody really fully understood it. Yeah. Was was the biggest problem of it.
SPEAKER_01They and I it They were just at the surface level, the cursory, kind of like, oh well, I didn't actually bludgeon somebody to death.
SPEAKER_03Right, right. We've talked about this before on the podcast, and and I I've always tried to give give proper credit credence or credentials or whatever, footnotes for where I get these thoughts. But there's a old sitcom, and the dad was talking about the difference between his two kids, and he says, one of my kids understands the letter of the law, the other one understands the spirit of the law, because he was talking about the kids that like they he drops them off at the movie theater, and it's like I don't think we've heard.
SPEAKER_01Have you told me this before?
SPEAKER_03I feel like I have, but but he drops them off at the movie theater and he's like, Okay, um, I'm gonna be back to pick you up at 9 30 or 10 o'clock or whatever, and it's like, yeah, dad, I'm going to the movies, be back at 10, whatever. And like for the one kid, he knows exactly what that means. That kid's gonna go to the movies, hang out with his friends at the movies, and then leave the movie and be home by 10 o'clock for sure, because the movie's over and that gives me time to get home. The other kid So which one is that? The letter or the spirit? That's the one who understands uh the spirit of the law, right? I'm I'm going to basically do what I say, you know. And but the one that just sees the letter of the law is like, oh, the movie's over at 10. Well, I'll just go do whatever I want. Check. Yeah. As long as I'm back by tent. Back by 10, Dad.
SPEAKER_01So what's the problem, Dad?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So anyway, and I think that's how sometimes we look at it. And for me, that that's when I start seeing Jesus ex expound on these things like murder, adultery, umaths. Oaths, all those other things, right? Like he is fasting and he's saying, Okay, yeah, you you get the idea here, but you didn't you didn't absorb. Absorb it all the way to understand that the what I'm trying to do is uh help you to be free from sin and and and truly like the way for people to see me and then but you guys sometimes are treating it as like, well, as long as I'm doing this, I'm good. Like it's it it's this keeps me where I need to be. I just need to keep it between the rails here, and but it doesn't matter what I do in between the rails, like the kid who understood the letter of the law.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. It's it's the old uh I'm gonna avoid sin, I'm not actually gonna practice holiness. Yeah, that's another that's probably a better way to say it. Yeah, so so as long as I avoid sin, I you know, I think I'm righteous, but that's not the same thing as being good, doing the right thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and and completing the law allows people to see the full picture of of Jesus and and what he's trying to do, because yes, I'm trying to not become a sinner any worse than I already am or whatever. I'm trying not to break the law here, but I'm also living in such a way so that you see Jesus in me. So it's not just that, hey, I didn't know vast difference. Yeah, I didn't I didn't kill anybody today, or I didn't I didn't cuss out my kids today or or whatever, I didn't lose my temper, but also I looked for other ways to bring life into these conversations. It's not just avoiding the bad and hateful things to say, but also saying things that lift people up. And so it's it's that kind of mindset. And so what we end up doing is when we just isolate on do this, don't do that, is just like what Jesus is saying here. We we uh only see it we see it in incomplete terms, I guess. Yeah, is the best.
SPEAKER_01And you would think they'd be somewhat um I don't know, excited, but I mean he clearly says in in what we have is verse 19 uh therefore whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. You would think, you know, they would say, Oh, okay, well he's he's for the law. You know, but but it's uh it's that it's that twist that comes later that we'll talk about in the subsequent episodes, that uh probably uh throws them because he interprets the law so much more intently. You know, it's not just a matter of of what we do on the external, it's actually about the character of the inside. Right, he dials it to an eleven.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, senses or takes it up and does because that's what we're supposed to do. We're we're supposed to live these lives. The whole point of being the people of God way back in the beginning was to light a pathway for people to see God. Yeah. That's what the children of Israel were about, that's what the whole nation was about, that's why God was sending them into the land, they were going to be the light post. And Jesus just talked about that again right before this when he says, No one lights a lamp and puts it under a bowl, which is essentially what we're doing when we incompletely follow the law. Yeah. We're we the lamp is lit, but it's got a shade over it. Right. Right. It's not really showing out for everybody. We're not doing all we can. Me and these guys that meet on Wednesday, we talk about I think I've told you about our word spudazo. Spadazo. Make every effort. And and I think that's where you light the lamp and you do not put it under a bowl. You you light it so everyone can see that's making every effort, following the law uh all through its completeness. That's what we're called to do. And so Yeah, and I think it's interesting too, where he says, Who will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. So I know practice means actually do them too, but but I think what Jesus uh has to be implying in that same sentence is that uh whoever is really trying to live this stuff out, you're gonna be blessed as you do this because uh people are gonna see it in you. And yeah, I know there's uh Christianity is persecuted around the world in different places, and I I truly get that. But the blessing goes way beyond even just this life. Now I know what people would say here in the West is well, yeah, if I if I live like Jesus, I'm kind of gonna see some benefit from that because people are gonna recognize that and go, man, that's a good dude, you know, or that's a good that's a good person, that's a good way to handle that, and some of that stuff is gonna return to me even in my own lifetime. Yeah. But but I think the deeper thing is, even for those who live in places where they're persecuted for their faith, if you are practicing this stuff out, the the blessing that you are sending forth into the world and and the blessing that you will receive is not just a temporal thing, it's an eternal thing, and it's a much larger than us thing than we realize sometimes. Like what I say and do with my life today, there are some things about it that I'm just never gonna see the fruit from. I was talking to this kid this morning, and we were reading the part in Paul's letter to Timothy, where he says, I remind you to fan into flame the gift that God is. To Kindle.
SPEAKER_01To Kindle, yeah. That that just that word's only used a couple times in the New Testament, yeah, for Kindle.
SPEAKER_03And so I was asking him, so what does that look like for you? When are you fanning it into flame? And and so he t we he talked about, well, you know, I go to church and uh come here on Monday nights for Bible study, I go to Wednesday night church at North Monroe, I go and on Sundays he goes home to like uh Ravel or some that area for church, and then uh he talked about meeting with me and stuff, and I said, Okay, yeah, that's really good. And I said, But what other ways are you fanning that into flame? And then he mentioned this wildly unorthodox thing that I thought, man, that's really cool. He was talking about him and his girlfriend were eating at a Waffle House the other day, and the Waffle House server brought brought them their food. Yeah, and and this guy, uh Gray, he he just said, Well, hey, I'm gonna we're about to pray over our meal. Would you like to pray with us?
SPEAKER_00Nice.
SPEAKER_03And there was like I think another person from Waffle House was standing right there, and maybe they weren't that busy. They might have been the only people in the restaurant. I have no earthly idea what was going on. I didn't get that deep into it, but the bottom line is they prayed, you know, and the Waffles folks prayed with them. And then he said, like after that, their conversation, like he said, they started talking about stuff and feeling convicted about stuff and just sharing things that they probably don't normally share with their other customers, you know. Right. Yeah. And so in that moment changed the whole mood. Yeah, yeah. So so by by fanning into flame his faith, by putting it on display, by doing something as simple as praying for your waffle house food, which probably everybody should do. But uh praying for it or praying over it or something.
SPEAKER_01Help Lord transform this smother this uh smother in in your righteousness.
SPEAKER_03But but anyhow, it it impacted these people's lives. And so that's where I think anyone who puts this stuff into practice, yeah, teaches these things, yeah, is gonna there's gonna be blessing that follows with that. And it's like like Gray and Hallie, like they may never see those two people from Waffle House again. But you don't this side of the kingdom, yeah, but you know, but you don't know what that unfolded into the rest of their day.
SPEAKER_01What what conversation came afterwards? Yeah, man. Maybe that person took us uh a chance to pray for somebody else, and it's like uh the whole the whole ripple. I know you're a big ripple guy.
SPEAKER_03I'm a ripple guy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh I'm with you on the ripple, the ripple's real.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um so so I uh that's beautiful because I I was kind of focusing in on those two verses there. Uh uh, and I just can't help but to ask, what what do you think, like for those who are wondering, uh obviously you and I believe in in our righteousness by faith alone. You know, we believe in Christ. Christ gives us our righteousness because of his death on the cross. Sure. So what does it mean about being the least in the kingdom and the greatest in the or called great in the kingdom of heaven for you? I mean, how it am I putting you on the spot? We didn't prep this. Yeah, that's a big one, right? You know, is there I I can't go ahead. I'm gonna let you I asked the question, I'll let you answer.
SPEAKER_03Well, first of all, I I like the phrase in the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01Amen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because that means I'm in there. Yeah, yes. I'm part of the game, as they say in Sandlot. You know, like I'm I I might I may have got picked last, but I'm still on the team. Yeah. I may run like a duck. I may not can throw it from from the outfield to the infield, but it's a great reference. I'm I'm in the game. I'm in the game. So there is that part of it that's very comforting. So least in the kingdom and greatest in the kingdom. I I tend to think too about that, like when Jesus says that, I think that's like a little bit of like a like a fire poker or like a like if you're buzzing a dog with an electric collar or something like that. Just like a wake-up, like a oh, why would I want I don't want to be the least in anything in the eyes of Jesus.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I'm gonna strive for for to do better than that. So I don't know, I'm not gonna say Jesus was just trying to spur them on there, you know, but the whole New Testament, it feels like, is language of spurring one another on toward love and good deeds, right? Yes, finishing the race, yes, make every effort. It's all jam-packed in there. Very much so. And so so when I see least and greatest in the kingdom, I just think about how, okay, well, I don't want to be the least. I'm not trying to skate in there. That doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_01And so Yeah, and and why would you, right? I mean, I think to somebody who say, Oh, I as long as I get there, I don't care. I was like, is that love? Yeah, like like you know, that's like saying, Well, as long as I die still married to Courtney, I don't care what kind of quality of life she had. Yeah. You know, uh as long as we die, as long as I end this life married, uh, you know, as long as it was a good enough marriage. Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_03You know, well, that's not good. Yeah, no, exactly. Like, are you familiar with with Rudy, the movie? I have seen Rudy multiple times. Okay, you've seen it well, so we can intelligently talk about this finally for once. Oh Sean has seen a movie.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03I've seen lots of movies. So so so when it comes down to it for Rudy, they take him on the practice squad. He's dressing out, he's got blood on his shirt that's making every effort on every play in practice, even though he comes up to most of those guys' waistline and he weighs like less than half of what some of them weigh. And in the end of the game, I mean, at the end of the movie in that final before that final game, all those players are coming in there. If, hey, if Rudy doesn't dress out, I don't dress out. Yeah. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Now, Rudy is very, very, very much, in fact, the least on the fighting Irish of Notre Dame. Like he you're not gonna put that guy in there and expect to win a ballgame.
SPEAKER_01As a specimen.
SPEAKER_03As a specimen, he is the least. But actually, he's also the greatest at the same time. So I kind of think about that least greatest stuff. And Jesus is really tricky too, with first and last and last and first. And so I think it's really meant to make us think and to put us in a situation to where we go, okay, what really matters here? Like, what am I doing? And like you said earlier, why would I want to just skate into the kingdom? That's right. Why would I not want to just leave it all out on the field like Rudy? Because what I'm doing, even though I'm not scoring touchdowns, I'm not making differences in actual plays on a game, I am making a difference on this team. Like I'm matter in the grandpadazo, baby. It's all over it, man. And so that's where I think that I think we need to look sharp when we read stuff like that, because Jesus is talking to us, not just to them, but straight to all of us to say, okay, what are you really invested in in this kingdom of heaven stuff? Because it's because it's bigger than than just getting in, just like the law is bigger than just not murdering. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03There you go. Uh bring me your tough question.
SPEAKER_01No, I like it, man. Look, because I I think there's, you know, it's it's like the widow's might. Yeah. You know, uh it it wasn't about like there's probably there's people who are gonna give more, but did they give more of themselves?
SPEAKER_03Oh wow, that's another play on word, too. The widow's might is like a small coin, right? Or something like that. Yeah. But also the widow's mighty. Oh, yeah. She gives everything. Yeah, yeah. Everything, and everything for her is so much different than everything for you know the owner of the creamery or someone like you that's lofty. But but seriously, though, right?
SPEAKER_01The hamburger empire.
SPEAKER_03Ah, but yeah, that's that's so true.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and so you know, Jesus is is back there looking at this and and I I I I just look, he's like, Hey, what what's important to you, you know, and and is it are you just trying to check the box and get your ticket punched? Or are you really invested in this kingdom because because you you you see what it means to please the father, to love the father, to to serve, you know, in that way. So I don't know. I I look at that and I think of um uh I I think there's there's that whole idea of like, yes, you're in, like what you talked about. But there is there is gonna be some sense of uh I you know I think there's still purpose. I think there's still purpose. I I still think of the the parable of the talents.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and I think about, you know, he's he's gonna judge us by our works. Not not not for the sake of righteousness, but like those of us who are who are saved in Christ, he's gonna look at us, okay, now what did you do with your life? And and and I think our our reward in heaven, if there it you know, a reward beyond heaven itself, I think there's some aspect to say that he's looking at that and saying, you know what? You were really faithful. You were really prayerful. Um not you were a pastor. Because there's a lot of there's a lot of us out there who aren't incredibly faithful or or prayerful. I mean, you know, we we read about that all the time. Uh it's not about your vocation, but it's like, again, you're heart, and you know, we have a whole uh series of of stories that are going to come up afterwards here where the Pharisees weren't that righteous, you know, they weren't that good. So it's not your vocation, don't get hung up on that. Yeah. But it's very much the that that condition of like, how are you pursuing the kingdom? And and are you taking these things, these commandments, these teachings, and are you edifying them? Are you lifting them up?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And and I don't want to get way out in the weeds here on rewards in heaven and stuff like that because I just don't because I look at the rest of the New Testament, I just go, Yeah, I don't I mean, I know there's some scriptures here and there that kind of make us wonder and think about stuff like that, but that's not I mean, that's not why I I would do anything anyway.
SPEAKER_01I just want to be like Christ and Yeah, I just think that there's gonna be some people ahead of us in line. Well, yeah. Maybe some Mother Teresa types that are gonna be a little closer to Jesus, and we're gonna I'm gonna be in the nosebleeds. And and I'm okay with that. I mean, I want to do good. I don't know, man. Not that I won't get to see him, they're just gonna get to see him first. I don't know, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, what is I mean, that's just so like ah, my my brain can't even comprehend that.
SPEAKER_01Like, I don't because it's still glory. Yeah, it's still glory.
SPEAKER_03And I just but I just don't like thinking about it in those terms like when okay, God loves everyone, but but somebody's gonna have a better seat, you know. Just like, oh, what does it matter? You know, I mean this is. I know.
SPEAKER_01I but look, that's that's my frailty coming out. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I don't I don't know. I just yeah, I just it's just weird. That's a weird concept for me.
SPEAKER_01There's lots of things in scripture that I I do believe, go back to the the point I made that we agree on. Why would you want to skate in? Yeah, yeah. That's just Yeah, that's the part that I feel comfortable in. The other part's speculation. Yeah but but the I know I don't want to skate in. You know, I want to give all. I I I I I want it to be a a clear, a clear at the end of the life, I want people to say, oh wow, yeah, Sean loved the Lord. Not not because I want people to see that, because I want the Lord to be glorified. Just like in our prayer, which it it isn't gonna show up on the uh podcast here, but you know, we we pray right before we record, and and it's like Lord, get the glory out of this, you know. Right. And and you said something today which is really good. Um, you know, and and keep our stupid out of it. Yeah. And and look, I get it. When I'm saying about uh having a closer seat to Jesus, that's just speculation. I don't know. Yeah. Uh but I do I do believe. Why would you skein in?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, give all. Yeah, to give all. And I think Jesus is saying, hey, hey guys, this law and this prophet thing, don't sleep on that. It's important.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean Billy Ray Cyrus said it best.
SPEAKER_00Oh, let's go.
SPEAKER_03All gave some.
SPEAKER_00Some gave all.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. But even Luke, to to whom much is given, much will be demanded. Uh Tolkien, all we have to do is decide is what to do with the time that's given us. I mean, again the why why yeah, this is not it's not about getting by, it's not about getting in the door. Yeah. It is about living for the kingdom to the fullest uh from doing uh doing yeah, just what we just talked about, man. To whom much is given, much will be demanded. So whatever you got, what are you doing with it? That's the bottom line.
SPEAKER_01So well, and and he's gonna he's gonna take that theme uh of of you know preserving the law and all of it coming to pass. And as we'll uh unfold over the next, I don't know, how many other episodes we we get out of this, um you're gonna see where if you've not really done a deep dive into this, you're gonna see where he he really calls us to be accountable, not just for what we do on the external, but for the condition and the position of our heart as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and in the last verse, verse 20, yes we you sort of mentioned it, but just to drive this. So you already said it. We enter the kingdom not based on our righteousness, but based on Christ's righteousness on our behalf. Yes. And so we are made righteous by his death on the cross, and so he takes the place, you know, um, the atonement for our sin, all that kind of stuff. So we are made righteous. So what he is telling them there is, hey, look, unless you're better than these guys who are like X, Y, and Z, everything robots. All this kind of stuff. Like they do it all, right? Unless you're better than those guys, you're not even cracking the top ten. Yeah. So what he's saying is, I think that that verse is saying, hey, you better pay attention to what I'm about to say, boys. Right. Because this is how we're gonna roll. This is what the kingdom really looks like. And so verse 20 is is another one of those wake-up call type things and saying, hey, let's let's lock in and listen to this because this is what matters. I'm I'm showing you what completing the law looks like. Yeah, I'm speaking it now, and I'm going to live it for the next two and a half to three years, and I'm gonna take it to its ultimate fulfillment on the cross. So Obedience, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So pay attention. Even to the point of death, yeah. Pay attention. Uh and so so look, we got a we got a um we had a group of guys, 20 guys come off the retreat, and and we talk about um our righteousness through Christ. So let's just let's just say one of those guys or maybe a buddy of theirs, you know, they share this episode with them, and uh they hear that and they think, well, what does that mean? We haven't really talked about this in a while. What does that mean for me to put my to take on the righteousness of Christ? How would somebody how would we tell somebody here at Fight in the Shade that uh we want them to be to become a follower of Jesus and allow his goodness, his righteousness, his sacrifice to make us righteous?
SPEAKER_03What is our fight in the shade venmo?
SPEAKER_01No, I'm just kidding. Oh my gosh. That's good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What Sean means.
SPEAKER_01If you'll just sow a seed, oh my God.
SPEAKER_03What what Sean means is that you and I cannot follow the law on our own. That's right. We cannot do this stuff by ourselves. Like we are, in fact, sinful by nature. We we commit sin, we stumble into darkness, we stumble around in the darkness. So many people, we just don't know what to do. We're we're lost, as as the church folks say. And and so because we are lost, because we are steeped in sin, because we make wrong choices, because we can't get to heaven, there's no ladder we can climb, there's no there is no X, Y, and Z we follow. Jesus just said it. There's no way. To do it on our own. So what it boils down to is hitting a knee and saying, Jesus, I cannot do this myself. I know I'm a sinner and I need your grace to cover me. And so what Jesus does on the cross, once and for all, scripture is full of this, so just keep reading if you don't understand what we're talking about. It's in all four of these gospels. He goes to the cross, and in that moment where he is hung on that cross and beaten before he's up there and stuck with the spear and wrist and ankles are nailed and he suffocates and he dies. In that moment, he's being a sacrifice for our sin. Yes. And he is taking our place. Like we deserve death because we can't follow all these laws because we are unholy and unrighteous. And so he takes our spot. And so this whole churchy church talk about receiving salvation and all of that kind of stuff is simply that. It's simply saying, Jesus, I recognize that I'm a sinner, that you died for me, and I trust in you for my salvation going forward because I cannot do this on my own. So forgive me of my sins. Help me to walk in righteousness with you going forward. But let me be reminded and know constantly that I don't do this on my own. I do this because of your righteousness passed on to me. And it really does boil down to simply just saying yes to Jesus and accepting that because the offer is already out on the table.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we you know, the the just reward for our sin is death. Right. And so Jesus dies. And and Mark says this, and and your guy, you love to quote from Timothy, Paul says this to Timothy, um Jesus pays a ransom for all. So he paid the debt for us. And and if you accept Jesus as your Lord, which is a huge thing to say, especially in the context of first century Judaism, uh Caesar was Lord. Well, Jesus is Lord. And so to say Jesus is Lord in your life and accept him as your Savior, um, that's what it means to become righteous.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and savior as in saving me from my sins, which lead to death, which you just talked about, and Paul writes about the wages of sin is death. We get what we in life we get what we earn, but but what Jesus gives us is something that we could never earn. Yeah. We're never good enough to get it, and he gives it to us anyway. It's a free gift.
SPEAKER_01We we don't talk about that often because we presume most of the people listening are already believers. Uh you're doing Bible study. But every now and then it's good that we kind of throw that out there because you know, especially coming off a retreat weekend, guys uh sometimes are struggling in their faith. And and we we immediately or one of the um initially is the word I'm looking for, did this re this uh whole podcast to reach out to guys coming out of retreat just to give them a another resource, you know, as you're looking for Bible studies and opportunities, it's like listen to a couple knuckleheads r uh, you know, wrestle with the scriptures and and walk through it together. So here we are.
SPEAKER_03Right. And and I think too, if you have friends and if this is difficult stuff to explain, then just walk with them through it. I think sometimes, and in the South we take this for granted because there's churches on every corner and everybody's grandma's praying for 'em, and all this kind of stuff. You know, we have a lot of that kind of thing that happens, and sometimes we don't we ourselves we don't know how to say things to people and we don't and we overcomplicate it. Yes. And and God is not wanting that at all. Jesus came to make it abundantly clear what needs to be done. And so Yeah, if you've got somebody you need to talk to about this, then talk to them about it. And if you have trouble explaining it, or if you don't feel like you can, then bring somebody else with you and talk to them about it. But don't leave a conversation undone. Like don't don't just not say something. I mean, be like be like my guy Gray and Halley.
SPEAKER_01That spiritual conversation. You never know where the ripple is gonna end up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's so it's so true, and so absolutely we don't we don't deserve the grace we get, but Jesus gives it, offers it anyway. It is just only on us to receive it. That's it. Well, all right.
SPEAKER_01So um we got we got an episode done. It only took us two and a half months. That's pathetic, is what that is. But hey. But we're cooking now. Cooking. Cooking. So uh we we hope you know stay tuned with us on this little uh walk through the Sermon on the Mount, at least uh a significant portion of it, as we try to, you know, for me it's always there's always a little more revelation in here as we as we read this stuff. And so I I I'm grateful that we get to do this.
SPEAKER_03Guess we'll we'll maybe jump into your anger next week. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I get to quote uh my favorite line from the Avengers movie. Man, it's the best line.
SPEAKER_00Oh what I'm always angry. Yeah, I'm always angry. It's my secret. The Hulk says that, doesn't he? Yeah, Banner says that as he turns into the Hulk, yeah. Yeah, it's time to get angry. You've got angry angle. You got some Hulk Hulk vibes. Um whether you like it or not, whether you want it from it or not. Yeah, I do, I do. I do.
SPEAKER_03Such a hulking presence, you are. All right. Well, we love you guys. Adios. Stay in the fight.
