Sermon on the Mount 6 E93

Back in the studio, instead of the emergency room, Alan & Shawn finish Matthew 5 talking about how loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute us requires more than a feeling. They also avoid a tempting reference to Ricky Bobby when if comes to being perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. You had to be there!

Stay in the Fight!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Alright. We are back to fight in the shade. Just a little bit more. Back from the stuff. There's been a lot that's happened in the month that has gone between the two recording.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah, last month uh about a month ago almost. We're sitting in the recording studio on June 1st. I'll try to get this turned around as quickly as possible. Yeah, you do that. Um about a month ago, we were um at St. Francis Medical Center in ER Bay No. 4.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Yeah, we no one was expecting a child. Uh that was not any kind of things like that. It was it was it was something like that. It would have been miraculous. Yeah, no doubt, right. And traumatic at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Oh gosh. It is 2026.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Well, I was just thinking, even if even if it was Courtney, you know, or if it was Shauna, the trauma of Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, there's a whole lot of miraculous things that would have had to happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

18 more years? Are you kidding me? No, that's trauma. You're right. Oh my gosh. No, you took a you took a little nosedive in uh in your um for your 50th birthday, basically, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Don't turn 50, guys. Just stay get to 48, 49, just hold. Kind of hold, kind of hover in that zone. Yeah. As long as you can. But you're good, your heart's good? Yeah, heart's good. Uh had several tests as a uh you know, follow-up. Heart looks great. It it was all electrical, so to speak. So I'm on a medicine for that, and and uh later this summer I'll go back and we'll start stepping it down and and uh working on better sleep. Yeah. And uh cutting some pounds. And um hopefully the plan is to get off medicine completely. Yeah. And uh, if I should go back in AFEB again, then we'll find the minimum effective dosage. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

So since it's electrical, can they not just put one of those iron men things in your chest and you just have like zero problems? I I think I have to go to Sweden or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

I don't think that's approved by the FDA yet. Tony Stark was not a big deal. Or do it myself. Uh yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

He did it in a cave.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

He did it in a cave.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Why can't you do it?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

He he already had a hole in his chest, though. He had a reason for it. He had a reason.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Some could argue though, now you have your reason to go and pursue. You could become the next superhero.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Maybe I don't have to make a hole in my chest. Maybe I can just like Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

You know, he repaired all that stuff later and still kept the thing in his own. That's true. That's true. What would your name be? Superhero. Super Super Sean. Um about getting an iron suit. I don't know. I I don't have I don't have the budget. Yeah, right. He had a little bit different. He had a budget. I think your superhero would have something to do with aluminum man?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Not quite the same.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah. Aluminium man, I'll say it the previous.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Oh, I don't know if we need to go down the superhero rabbit hole this morning. But that maybe another time.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

When we finally do the uh What would be your superpower though, if you could pick one? Oh. This is that typical icebreaker question, but I don't think you and I have ever answered it face to face.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah, I you know, I used to think um the flash was a wimp, but then I seen all the things at the flash and I think it's speed would be really cool. Speed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

I think back in the day when cartoons were all we had, you didn't think about how fast he really is, but now the way they show it in movies like Quicksilver on X-Men or any of the Flash stuff, they're like, you know, everything else is like still and they're still moving and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

So you have to remember I'm a procrastinator.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

So to be able to sort of move so fast that time slows down and I can do things at the last minute, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

But see, there's still a money thing right there, right? There's still a money thing because you would burn up all your clothes, right? They have to have like suits made to handle the handle the friction, you know. Yeah. Even just your shoes alone, right? Well, I could enter a few races. Oh man, think what you could do. That would be cheating, I think. Yeah, I think Clark Kent, he didn't play football because he felt like he would be cheating.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Well, I don't have to enter all the races. Just some of the races. Just a couple of NASCAR races. I'm in the races, I make the money.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

I say race how I want to, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Isn't that how rookie Bobby got disqualified? He got out of his car.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Oh, yeah, he did. Yeah. I don't think that's good. You have to stay in. Um But he did beat Jean Gerard.

unknown 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

So you would say speed, all right? I think so. That is a good one. Yeah. See, I always think that if I ever had that option, that I would get screwed somehow because I would say something like flight. And they're like, sure, okay. But you don't have a vulnerability, so you crash and you die. Yeah. Here's these massive wings you gotta walk around with.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Or your your archangel.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Or yeah, or you fly, but you fly really slow, you know. Yeah, yeah. Like a pelican type thing or whatever. Like, yeah, dude. So you can't just say you can't just say that, you know. So I don't know. It's a it's a much deeper question than I used to think about, you know. And nobody wants the ability to read people's minds. I mean, because that would just drive you crazy. Oh my gosh. So you don't want that superpower. Healing power? Yeah. I mean, that would be cool. Like you mean self-healing or the ability to heal.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

No, no, no, self-healing. Self-healing. I mean, because then then you have the whole you can do what you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Well, then you're invulnerable, right? Yeah, exactly. Um, but then you're like Wolverine and you've lived for like 300 years and worn down and you're miserable, you know. So I don't know, man. You're grumpy. You're grumpy. I'm already sometimes grumpy though. Right, right. That's the one thing you sh the one thing you and Wolverine have in common. You're you're you're grumpy. Yeah, so I don't know. I legitimately can't answer that question anymore. I used to think I could, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

So so one of the um when when one of the the iterations of the Justice League was was on uh cartoons, you know, uh the guy that I had never heard of that I really got got fascinated with was the question.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, I don't know that. Okay, no, you're way beyond my skills.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

So so he he could fight, you know. But he he walks around and he he has like a blurred out face. Yeah. And he's got a trench coat and uh you know a fedora on, and he goes around and he is just dogged and he sees conspiracies and he asks questions and and so so he unravels it and it's uh I I wonder where like in the comics his origin is. I I've never looked that up, but I just thought it fascinating in the cartoon that you have this guy who's a part of the the Justice League, you know, and his his sole purpose is to like unravel, he's like Batman without the the cool stuff. You know, he he just becomes dogged in his investigation.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

He's Bat Batman with no budget, with no budget, no budget Batman. Oh golly. He's like a journalist on Facebook. I think I've met that character before, constantly asking questions. Yes. I think I'm pretty sure I know that know that guy. Oh goodness. I don't know. Yeah, I I just feel like he can't answer it, you know. Used to be it seemed like such an easy thing uh to say. Oh, yeah, super strength, no doubt. Super strength, yeah. Or or fly, you know, or something like that. But I just yeah, I don't know. X-ray vision when you're a teenager. X-ray vision seems useless um for the most part. I guess you could use it for good somehow, but it seems more like it would be used for evil. Um I yeah, can't answer it. I still think I would go back to flight.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Well, and then I always I as I got older, I thought about x-ray vision. So so is Superman just flooding the world with x-rays? Is that what that means? Nobody's wearing lead underwear. Yeah, is he sterilizing people? I mean, come on. Oh gosh, what a game. Can you imagine it if uh it was like um I don't know if you've watched The Boys at all on on YouTube? I know of the boys where it gives the reality of like if they were superheroes. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine a class action lawsuit against people who said I've been sterilized by Superman? Yeah, golly. The boys, that's a whole other conversation. That thing is I've watched a little bit, I was like, oh, this is uh dark and raunchy, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I had to not watch it. It's just like I watched season one by myself, and I was like, you know what, man?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Well, another one that's weird like that is Invincible. Have you are you familiar with that? Invincible, nope. It's a cartoon um that based on a comic, but it's a cartoon on Amazon Prime, and and it is um sort of the anti-hero. I mean, he it shows the blood and guts and and in a cartoon. Oh yeah, yeah. No, it's a it's definitely it's more of like uh American Dad. You know, it's a cartoon's written for a the the comic was definitely more gear geared to an older audience. So um, but you know, it it's it's a little dark. Yeah. It's a little dark, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah, so we went down the rabbit hole anyway.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

We did. Well, we're back. I mean, it's been a month. What do we do? It's been a month.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Don't watch the boys, you don't need that much credit. You really don't, you really don't. I mean, and I read the gospel. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I season one and I couldn't do it anymore, you know. But I because it's just because I think it's scratch, you know, like all that stuff, like we have these big imaginations, and so like even as adults, we want to kind of still get into the story. Oh, yeah. There's something about the lore of superheroes that that always kind of pulls me in because there's that story of okay, what if what if they were here? You know, what if you know, and you just get captivated by this.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

And and to watch, I I think what's happened since uh the advent of comics and what I guess we call that the the 40s, 30s, somewhere like that, you know, back in the early 1900s. Um to now almost a hundred years later, I don't know when they they started before that. Don't hate on me. I'm sorry, I'm not a comic historian here. Right. Um But the the point being is like we've seen the the telling of the story of the hero, and now we have more of these anti-heroes, yeah, these people who are incredibly flawed. Whereas the old Superman, Truth, Justice, in the American way, you know, he was the Boy Scout. The Boy Scout all the way. And I guess that started some degree with Batman being a little bit edgy. Yeah. And then as his telling has gotten more developed, he's become edgier, and then other characters have come up. But you have a lot of heroes who who are far from the ideal. Yeah. They're trying, and they come close to the ideal, but they're far from it.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

So it sounds vaguely familiar to some of the passage for the case. Yeah, I I don't know. Maybe a nice segment. Yeah. I mean, then we're in Matthew five. Uh short, short chunk again today, 43 through 48. Finishing up Matthew 5. Uh, this is the end, right? Yeah, you're right. We'll be in six after this. So um, yeah, these like six verses, right? Is that what that is? 43 through 48, six verses. Yeah, it looks like it. And so uh very, very to the point, all of them, very, very solid. Um and at the same time, uh like you you you would say straightforward, I guess. When I said solid, I guess I meant to say straightforward, but man, there's there's so much deep stuff that's that's pointed, I think, which obviously that's who Jesus is. That's yeah, his sermons have autonomy of words. He sometimes he somehow does it better than the rest of us. Yeah, how does that work? Um yeah. So uh let's do I just gonna read a little bit. I'm gonna read all six right now because that's too much and there's so much to do. But you have heard it said it was you have heard that it was said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Um pray for those who persecute you. How does that hit you on a summer morning in North Louisiana?

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Well, you know, we we talked at the hospital, we talked about going beyond the minimum. Right. Yeah. And I think this is uh the next step in that. Yeah, it it he's it's like uh it's easy to love your neighbor. I it's not always easy, but it's but that part is easier than the whole love your enemy part. Right. And and so, you know, you and I were talking in prep about um the action of love and and how this is this is probably uh you know, when I hear this on the face value of it, I'm like, oh, but that's not how I feel. Right. Because I think about the times I've been wronged. May maybe not enemies in the sense of like someone's raised a sword against me. Sure. Yeah. But the times I've been wronged and and I feel uh wronged or slighted or bullied or whatever, you know, and and then I want to uh I want to make it right. Yeah, I want to get justice, kinda like what we talked about last episode to some degree. Uh the feeling isn't one of love. But but the call here, and and this is probably why this is so hard for people, is is like we feel or we think that we need to feel love towards our enemies. But we don't always I I would I would argue that we don't always feel something, but we can still do it. And and I'm not talking about fake it till you make it, right? I you know, I think that's a a common uh line that's thrown out there in sales and things like that. You know, fake it till you make it, and teaching or whatever, you know, it's like uh uh you may not know what you're doing, but just but you go out there and you do the repetitions till you get it. That's not it.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

But hey, side note though, yeah wasn't that the advice that John Wesley got? Oh, was it like preach Christ until you find him or whatever? You remember that?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Oh no, I I don't know that story. Yeah, there's there's a lot of Wesley stuff out there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Remember after the storm and he was on the boat with the Moravians, yeah, yeah, and they were all praying and calm, and he was like a wreck, thought he was gonna die, he was puking, and I guess I don't know, just miserable experience.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

I think they're close. I I think I I think the fake it till you make it thing, I think there's some it is some resemblance of the truth in that.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah, but the problem with fake it I think Well you don't want to hear that you don't want to use that word, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yeah, yeah, I do the air quotes here. Uh the problem with that is it it's it's almost as if it's uh I'm deceiving and Yes and and I'm not and I'm not being deceptive in loving my enemies. I may not feel it, but I'm going to go through the action of loving, you know, the act of loving. I'm gonna do loving acts out of obedience to Christ, out of out of my love for Christ. And so it does come from a place of love. It just may not be a love that I feel for that enemy, but I'm going to do the act and and that's where I think uh you and I have talked about maybe doing a heart and head episode, you know, or or a series of you know of episodes on that, where we where we get into the tension between what we feel and what we actually do. Because I I don't know, you tell me. I mean, it it is do you always do what you feel?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Um, yes, of course. You know, just I mean, I'm I'm way better than the Apostle Paul and everyone else on the planet, right? Right, right. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

I mean, if I always did what I felt, I'd be six hundred pounds. Because I'd be like, I would eat that. Or that, right.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Right, right. If you gave into your feelings.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, if I always gave into my feelings, I'd be six hundred pounds, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah, that so that's funny that you bring that up. Like, I want to talk about the whole, ooh, I feel love or whatever, right in a second. But but it's funny that you bring that part up too. I can remember in college talking about the the reason that we have like these guardrails and and you know, scripture outlines things for us to do. And I think it was one of those conversations about sex before marriage and just human sexuality and stuff in general. Good one. And and I was just like, well, now wait a second, right? Of of course there's some guardrails with this, because if I just do what I want to do or do what I feel like doing, then I'm gonna go like go go go crazy sometimes, right? I mean, I'll just do whatever, you know, say whatever, do whatever, sleep with whoever, all this kind of stuff. Like you, if you do what you feel in the moment every time if there's no guardrails, if there's no not that I really, really want to do the any of that stuff, but I have a I have a a a worldview, if you will. I have a I have a structure to this thing that I get from from reading scripture and following the way of Jesus that I know that that's outside the rails, and I'm not gonna do that. So, yeah, we cannot just do what we feel all the time. So I that's not really connected to our passage, but it's just funny that you brought that up because people are gonna say, well, you know, people that'll make the argument, you know, about, I don't know, man, like get into whatever human sexuality question you want to get into today's world, you know. We weren't having these conversations 30 years ago. It was more just like heterosexuality versus homosexuality, but now it's just like, oh, well, I've today I feel like a girl, tomorrow I feel like a boy, or whatever, you know. You just can't do this stuff, you know. You need you can't base things on how you feel. That's ridiculous. You can talk about your feelings, you can work through your feelings, but you can't have a basis of life and action that is totally rooted in feeling and nothing else, because that's preposterous, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah, and and so I I because love your enemies becomes impossible then.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yeah, you can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Because it doesn't, it's never gonna feel good. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe after the fact you might feel, okay, that was the right move. Well, I think but it's never gonna feel that way in the process.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah, I I I I think if we're waiting to a point that we we just feel it, then we're gonna miss out on some great opportunities to to be the followers of Christ. And and there may be a time, there may be a time where in our sanctification, big church word there to say, you know, us being made more and more holy, more and more like Christ, uh, there may be a time where we genuinely feel love towards our enemies even before we've done anything. That that that could happen. I'm not saying it you know would would never happen, but I'm gonna but I I agree with you, it's never gonna happen if we don't start acting and and and taking action, loving action towards our enemies. Well, yeah, that's and prayer is I mean, he tells you, pray for your enemies.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Pray for your enemies, yeah. Right. That is an act of love. And that's a great point. Like if we're waiting on it to feel right, if we're waiting on the feeling, then we probably will never start. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

I mean, that's I feel like we've said that before on the podcast. Like like maybe season one or two. I feel like that that's been deja vu, baby. Yeah, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

I'm sure I'm sure you're right. There's only so many there's only so many good things we can say. There's a glitch in the matrix. But yeah, that that's very true though, that if you don't if you're waiting on the feeling, then then you're you're never gonna move forward. Right. And I that's so true with a lot of things, right? If you're if you're waiting on feeling good about going running, well, then you're probably never gonna go running.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

You guys are doing this cool what's on the board over here to my left, you're right, this push-up thing. Yeah. 110 push-ups a day does not feel good. No, especially especially in the beginning. Especially in the beginning. I'm I'm gonna do these push-ups when it feels good. Well, that's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

It's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

That's where I'm at. I'm waiting on it to feel good.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah, so so there's that.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

So that that's where yeah, it's where I come. Is like I look at that and I think, oh my gosh, love your enemies. How do I feel love? Well, I'm not gonna feel love for them until I do something loving. Yeah. Like, like, especially love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. I think the idea that we would begin to pray for someone to go before God in prayer. To take that precious time when we when we talk to God and say, Lord, this person has hurt me and this has happened, and you know, uh whatever, you know, I I pray that I pray that I I can love them. I pray that you know you would uh you would soften their heart. Whatever, whatever that prayer is, I think I think that is very much an act of love.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Well, yeah, it totally is. Well, think about it. And I'm I still want to get back to what I feel like about love or whatever, and yeah, just our concept of it. And and but but yeah, this is another good point. Like with prayer, think about how much time let's just like the average the average Alan or the average Sean spends in prayer. All right. Yeah, I'm not even gonna pick on anybody else, so just pick on me. Well, most of my prayers, if not almost all of them, like I mean, maybe in the 90-something percentile, they are all about people that I love. I mean, my family comes first. Why are you stepping on my toes? And then I pray for I pray for all these students that I actually love, right? I mean, some of them I know better than others, some I have deeper relationships with, and I've known them longer, but I love them and I'll pray for them, right? And so those are my prayers and and praying for the campus, praying for like extended family, but it's all about people I love. It's very, very rare that I take those minutes and I say minutes of prayer, right? Right, right. Which I know sucks. Is that me? And uh may have been you. That's me. And uh minutes of prayer and apply them to someone. That I consider my enemy. That's a good word. Okay? And then take it another step further. Jesus says, pray for those who persecute you. I'm pretty sure that most people who identify as Christians in the good old uh North American continent don't have a clue about persecution and and can't even begin to understand the depth of that statement that Jesus is making. But at the same time, there they would say they've got a list of enemies, they would say they've got people that hate them, or they would say they've got people they don't like, and they can't, we can't even pray for them, which is on a whole lesser level than what Jesus is actually talking about, I think, when you use the word persecution. Like I didn't go Greek that thing or anything, but I'm pretty sure I know what they're talking about when they're talking about persecution. I mean, they felt it from the Roman Empire, they felt it from those around them. Yes. Actual persecution. And then the early church definitely felt that too. So when they would go back and read this, I mean, like when when Matthew was writing this, they were persecuted for sure, right? So we got no freaking idea. And so I I would put that as a challenge to all of us to begin to say, okay, so Jesus calls me to pray for those who persecute me. So what does that actually really look like in my life? Like, who am I praying for that I'm not like already super entrenched with in in love? You know, because mostly we just want to put those people out of our mind. The people that the people that are we considered on the enemy list, the people that persecute us, you know, whatever, in quotes.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Like Because we spend too much time replaying the argument or the the the what do you call it, the the conflict in our head and what we should have said and how we could have given them a zinger, and instead of saying, wow, how could I have shown them the love of Christ?

unknown 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

It's yeah, and I've been there, I've done it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Pop off at somebody and you you're like, oh yeah, I showed them. And it's like, yeah, but I wasted a great opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, and and you're right. You spend a ton of time in retaliation thought. Yeah. And golly, even if you just applied the time you spent thinking about what you could have said. Replaying that in your mind. Instead of instead of a totally different purpose. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of doing that with that time, why don't you just pray for them? And and I and I don't mean the prayers like God straighten them out so they'll see it my way, you know, whatever. Like that's not praying for your enemies, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:43

That's that's the uh the psalms, the imprecatory psalms, the there's like a seven or eleven of them, I can't remember. Um that you know, pray that the uh the bones of my enemies will be broken. Dash, you know, dash the heads of their children on rocks. I mean, they're they're like some seriously dark psalms in there. Yes, yeah. Yeah. No, don't pray those.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Don't think that's what Jesus is saying, that's not what he's talking about. So so yeah, what what what would it look like if that's how you handled those you disagree with? And I think that's what it boils down to. You don't have a lot of enemies. You just have a lot of people that you don't agree with. Right. Yeah, and a lot of them they just they just don't agree with your exact line of thinking, so you you know just decide not to talk to them. Yes.

unknown 25:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

So what were you gonna say about feeling love?

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Well, I just think that's what we we equate all this stuff to when when anytime we read it, like love your enemies, you know. So immediately we think of, okay, so I gotta go build them a cake or something, you know, and I gotta I gotta paint their room with like all these bright colors, and and it's gotta be this rainbow pony show kind of thing where everything is wonderful. Love your enemies and I don't know, man, like the the whole 60s vibe and and all that kind of stuff. I'm just like, no. It's it it it is not again like about how you feel, or not making something wimpy and pasty and just crappy. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

And it's not about uh uh being permissive either. Trevor Burrus, Jr. No. Yeah, like I think when you said the 60 vibe, I think.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah, like like tolerant, right? Love is not about tolerance. Trevor Burrus, Jr. No, it's it's love your enemies, as in what you alluded to earlier or said earlier, that that it is an action, like I'm taking action to actually show you love. And again, this goes back to what we said earlier about j in the episode before about how this is this is a strength, this isn't a weakness. Yeah. And and we oftentimes, scripture, Christians, Jesus gets painted as this weak kind of deal when instead it is it is strong to love your enemies because it is hard.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

I refer to last week um 5-5, blessed are the gentle, for they will inherit the earth. You're not gentle if you're weak. Right. Right. I mean, you know, you're gentle. There there is okay, I'm gonna go back since we talked about cartoons already, and and uh I'm switching to Marvel now. Um there's an Avengers cartoon where the Hulk has a room in Avengers Tower and no one ever gets to go in it, and finally they show what's inside there, and he has a bunch of little figurines, little glass figurines, and and it's all about the Hulk being gentle.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Oh like learning not to break something. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Not to smash because the Hulk, right? Hulk smash, right? Exactly. He is gentle when he's restrained, and and you're not gentle if you're weak. Yeah. Yeah, that you're just you're just ineffective and un you know, so so every bit of this about uh what you're saying, uh a loving and and how how were you just phrasing it a minute ago about the whole the whole idea of I was that thought gonna be flipping pages and I don't know. I spun out for a second and my mind shut you off, but because you you had that thought coming into my head there about uh the being gentle and and so this whole loving thing is not the permissive and the weakness. Right, right. And we're like, oh, okay, everything's fine. No, no, there's actually some strength in love and setting boundaries. That's another way, you know. Uh you you don't love your children by just giving in to all their whims. You set boundaries for them. You know, we don't just love our our spouses, our co-workers, or anybody else by just allowing them to walk over us all the time. We set boundaries for people in relationships, and that is an act of love as well. Jesus had boundaries, you know. I mean, there's no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Sure. And and I think for us as well, like even when your kids who you would say you love, love, love, love, love, like you have to love them and actually show them love even when you don't want to. Yeah. You know, even when even when it feels like they're your enemy at times, right? When you're exhausted. Yeah, when you're exhausted, when you're wiped out, or when you're like, oh my gosh, you're doing this again, or what are we talking about now? And so again, the the love being an action is when you see it that way when you read this, that it's not feeling, it's action. And again, like I mean, ask your ask, ask anybody you're you're around a lot, any family member, if your spouse in particular, what would they rather you do? Would they rather you be this like lovey, dovey, cheery, kind of gooey kind of or would they really want you to show them through your actions that you actually care for them, right? That you actually want the best for them, that this real, strong, genuine, tried and true love pours through your actions as opposed to, well, they they they say they love me. Yeah. Or, you know, you can hear. And I know, like, I'm a child of the 80s and nobody said it, so it was important for us to, man, my parents never even told me they loved me, you know. I mean, I mean, I get it. There's something to actually speaking the words, but that was just because you had kids, I think, anyway, that grew up, some of us, where you had parents that were heavy, heavy, heavy on the they actually did love you and they showed it in so many ways, but you never had to connect because you never heard the words. Where I think sometimes it goes the other way where people say the word, say the word, say the word, say the word, but they don't really sacrifice and show any real love. And so I think that's a big disconnect that maybe we have now. People are really good about posting things and and sharing things like that and saying things, but then when it comes right down to some kind of actual tangible sacrificial act of love, it sort of gets left out. Right and it doesn't it does not get done. And man, I think any spouse would rather you show it than say it. They would rather it be this genuine action rather than something this just a touchy feely when I'm in a good mood or when I'm reminded of how awesome you are or whatever. But and I think you have it in you c we need it in both ways, but man, you I don't know. That's just me. Like I just we get so caught up again, like we've already said, beat a divorce here is a feeling, and and I just think it's so far from that. And I mean I'm pretty sure that I mean this is an oversimplification, but there's not any point in time where Jesus was going through what he went through for us as uh the crucifixion where he was like, Oh, this feels good. Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad I did this. He wasn't thinking of birthday parties and you know ponies and stuff. Like he was it was excruciating, but he was thinking of us.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

So what do you make of verse 45 when he says, so that you may prove yourselves to be sons of your father who is in heaven?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Uh uh well, I think that ties into the last verse as well. Like be perfect as your father. Like, I just think if we are really his children that we'll look a little bit like him. That's right. You know, and I think that's people want to talk about their faith and and everything, but man, do you look like him? Yeah. Can I look, can I look at you and see that? Oh, yeah. Honestly. That I think that's what that is. The and it's not about being just like God, but golly, you gotta show some glimpses. Uh is there some fruit? Yeah. People gotta be able to look at you and go, okay, yeah, I I guess.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

It's not good to be the fig tree that doesn't bear figs.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

No, no, no, it's not good at all. Does it does it work out well for those two?

SPEAKER_01 33:12

And here's the thing, uh he makes the uh the last part of that verse in 45. You know, he he reminds us that that the sun, you know, uh the son of God, S-U-N, right? The very sun in the sky, um, his provision, if you will, the sun being being this this very essential part of life, it shines on both the good and the evil. So why would you not as a follower of God give show love to both good and evil?

SPEAKER_00 33:43

See, that's good because I think most people read that verse and they pull it, they pull that line, they put it in a vacuum and they think, oh, it's like the the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Well, it's I guess it's in the Bible, that's why this bullcrap has happened to me. Like that's how we use that verse. Right. Instead of like what you just said, is to say if if God if God does that with the sun, yeah, and he gives it graciously to all, then we need to do that.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yeah. Yeah. How can we discriminate who gets our love? We we shouldn't be any more discriminant about that than God is with the presentation of the sunlight. Yeah, that's great. It's going on a shirt. Maybe a bumper cigarette. And he does send and and the last part of that is the same thing. The rain falls on the righteous and unrighteous. And try living without sunshine or rain. It's not gonna work. Yeah, you're gonna be. And so our love is is as essential and should be as unrestrained as God is with the sun and the rain. And we should give it freely. All right, I'm gonna take the rest of the episode off.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yeah, you just hit one out right there, I think. That's really, really good. I was gonna I probably would have blown right by that line. That's all right.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

That's what I'm here for.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Just because it's I feel like it's overused sometimes. You just brought new life to it to me right there. That it that equates directly with how um yeah, because that isn't that funny. Like that's how we read scripture. We read, we read it for uh what it says to us, like in that sense. Like oh, yeah, well that's uh yeah, I guess I just gotta deal with the bull crap. You know, rain comes and sucks, you know, or whatever, you know. Some it rains, it rains on my sunny day, you know. That g that's how it gets read, man.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

But we should look at our our provision of love to be unrestrained and un un what's the word I'm looking for? Und as indiscriminate as God is with the sunshine and the rain.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah, yeah. That's that's I love it.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

That's a tall order, though. I mean, that that's huge. And and and so he doubles down uh in in what I call like a uh sham wow moment. But wait, there's more, you know, it's like 46. Um because what good are you, essentially, I'm I'm paraphrasing, what good are you if you just love those who love you? Like because even even and here's i in case you missed it, in case you don't know, this is kind of an insult.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yeah. Because he says even tax collectors does, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah, even those guys who are who are known to be within the community as betrayers. Yeah, I mean the betrayers scum, you know, uh out for themselves, they take advantage of their own people. Even those guys do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah, Matthew, as a as from a profession standpoint, looked more like a traitor than Judas.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Because he was a traitor to his people as a tax collector, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:37

On the front end for sure. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, no, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

In the beginning. And then, yeah, you you greet only your brothers, what w what are you doing more than others, right? The pagans, you know, greet their brothers. You're right. I mean, w everybody likes who they like. That's right. And they do a good job of it, usually.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah, how do you how do you love the outcast or the oddball or or somebody who doesn't quite fit into the tribe that you're a part of already?

SPEAKER_00 37:02

And here's a good question, I think. Like most of the people that we like that we show love to, now some of them, like kids, don't show us a lot of love back sometimes, right? I get that one, right? You just love them because they're family, because they're blood, you're supposed to. But but how much of it is, oh, I love these people because of what they do for me, right? I mean, how much of it is a reciprocity. Easy for you to say. Yeah, I don't know. You're the big word guy. Reciprocate is what I was trying to say. No, no, I'm with you. Yeah, but how much of that is is that's what it's that's what it's based on. Right. That's a bad thing to say. Maybe it's a it's a thing we don't want to admit, but that's kind of true.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Well, but there there's also, I mean, this is this it's the nature of relationships too. We put things into it. Like to have a relationship. That doesn't mean that you can't love people without a relationship. Oh, yeah, yeah. But but a a big part of like our value to one another i is what we bring to the table, literally, you know, here at fight in the shade. Uh we come, we have a conversation, we pray for one another, um, we laugh, you know, make fun of each other, all those good things, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

And and there's encouragement in that and going together, you know. Um, and so that that's the easy part. Right. And then the hard part is to say, okay, well, how do we leave here and run into somebody who doesn't think, speak, believe like we do, and love them as well. Yeah, and and yeah, I was without expectation of return.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Right, right. I wasn't saying it's a bad thing. No, no, no, I understand that. To be excited about being around the people that do good stuff for you. I mean, that's that's great. I agree. We should be doing that for each other.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

We should be but that's the basic. Yeah. Yeah, and and as we've said throughout um you know Matthew 5, Jesus is like, yeah, you you got the basics down. I want to tell you about the advanced course. Right. Take it up a non-turning into an 11. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, turn into eleven. So and then how does he sum it all up? Verse 48, right? I mean, it's not a big deal, just just be perfect. Like the buddy Jesus thing, you know, like, hey, thumbs up, man.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Here you go, guys. Yeah, so basically basically just go be perfect, like your father in heaven's perfect. Jesus is my homeboy. Yeah, thumbs up, right? I know that's a bold, bold statement. And and I think we look at it, and you go one of two ways. You either just gloss over it as Bible talk, or you look at it and go, Well, so much for me. So much one thing, one thing I know is I'm not going to be perfect. So I guess I'm out. Yeah, like you said, I'm done. I'm done. The Bible is not for me, the Jesus way is too hard. Be perfect as God is perfect. So I'll be supposed to be like, God, no, come on, that's impossible. And so that's where we end up with that so often. But we've talked about this a couple different times that it's what God shows us is he perfects us in love. Like it's about being complete. He loves us completely and and and perfectly, and so we are made perfect because of the complete and perfect love of God. Yeah, and so if that's true, then what Jesus is saying here is for us to learn to love in that way, and because we are perfectly loved by God, then we can learn to do that for others. Like it can go forward from there. There's supposed to be something that is birthed out of that because we have the love, the perfect love of God that's complete and not lacking anything. There's no way in which God's love falls short. And so that's the perfection, if you will, that Jesus is calling us to.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Yeah, no, no, I'm with you. And and it it's reminiscent of of uh so the love your enemy part comes from Leviticus 19, what was that, seven? 1918. 1918, that's it. And then this one is reminiscent of uh Leviticus 19 2, where where God says, you know, you be a holy people as your God is holy. And so now Jesus is saying, Yeah, be perfect as as your heavenly father is perfect. Um I this has come up in in one of the Bible studies I'm a part of uh on Wednesday night or Wednesday mornings. And these uh these folks have really been anxious around the idea of perfect and and and they're like, Oh, I don't know, I'm I'm so messed up. And what I what I would try to tell them and challenge them with is so you're saying I want you to hear the um the conceit or the audacity or the arrogance in what you're saying, but you're saying that your sin is so bad that God's grace can't overcome it.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Exactly, because it's not how arrogant is that? Yeah. Yeah, because that's how we're we're we can't get perfection on our own. That's right. We're made perfect, we can't be holy on our own, we're made holy because of what God does. And so, yeah, that's a great way to put it back to those folks to say, hey, look, you're you're you're shortchanging God's ability.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah, you should you should be intimidated on your own. But with God, as as Jesus says in in Mark, with God all things are possible. And so here we are, it it's it's like, well, no, I shouldn't be such an arrogant uh uh Nimrod that I'm over there saying, God, you can't make me perfect. Yeah, my sin's too great. Well, then then why did Jesus die on the cross?

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Right. So it is that that's that's it in a nutshell for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Your your humility becomes arrogance and and and is what it is. Uh you you become so humble you're arrogant by saying, My sin is too bad. My sin's too much for you, God. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Yeah. And because God is holy, because God perfectly loves and he transfers that to us, then that's the only shot we have in doing it. But it's a very doable thing at that point. Like we learn to do that. That's the the be like Christ thing. I think so much of it is is we think that it's about us trying to sound like Jesus, you know, and but but it's like, no, take what I've given you. Like he even says it, take my yoke upon you. My yoke is easy, my burden is light, like you'll have rest for your soul. You don't have to chase perfection. You just have to trust God that who perfectly loves you to give you that supernatural ability, which I know at times it takes supernatural ability, all the way back to our superhero conversation at the beginning. We don't get this superpower on our own or for some alien thing or from some kind of chemical reaction or lightning strike or whatever it is. We don't we get it only from God. The ability to be perfect, the ability to love perfect only comes from this God who perfectly loved us and loves us. But we can do that. We can that can be transferred onto even our worst of enemies because God gave it to us first.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

And and and because he gave it to us, we have to use it. I I I think this is an important part, is is you know, talking about the Holy Spirit uh the Holy Spirit and the gifts we get, spiritual gifts. We we don't honor the gift giver by keeping the gift to ourselves. Yeah, that's it. We we honor the gift giver by using those gifts. And so if God is perfecting you, that's only gonna happen by you allowing God to work through you. So we go back to the beginning where we started with love is an action. Yeah. And so if you want to be perfected in love, if you wanna if you want to be perfect as your your father in heaven, your heavenly father is perfect, then you gotta go out there and put yourself out there. You got you gotta put yourself out there and and do the things like love your enemy. You gotta do the push-ups. You gotta do the push-ups, yeah. You gotta do them. You can't sit back on the couch, you can't be a couch tater and and uh Well, that's not how loving your enemies works.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

No, it's not. Because you can't just sit there and sit on the couch and go, Okay, God, I'm going to love my enemies now. Well, how are they gonna know if you're not out there?

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, you're you're essentially you're essentially the servant in Matthew 25 who buried his treasure in the back.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah, I was thinking on the master. I was thinking that when you said it a minute ago. I was like, yeah, that's a biblical concept, you know. And and yes, I know there are some people that physically can't go do stuff, and they're at a place where you know all they can do might be to be on the couch and to be prayer warriors. Well, I'll take that. I'll take it. I'll take that every day. But if but a lot of us aren't in that scenario.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Well, you pray for us, uh sincerely. Yeah. You know, it's like if you're gonna pray for some folks, pray for us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

I mean, I it's it's we have got to we've got to go out there. The only way your enemies are gonna know that you love them is if you show them. That's it. And the same is true with your family. The only way they're really gonna know it is if you show it. You do need to say it, but but you gotta show it. That's right. It's an action, dog. So I like it. Matthew 5. Matthew, episode 93. Whoa. Seven more to the hundo. Oh my gosh. Big stuff, big stuff. Could it be an ice an ice bath episode? Could it be uh I don't know, uh a creamery burger episode? I mean, there's a lot of a lot of big things that could happen for the hunter.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

We could do both. Yeah, we could do both.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Creamery burgers and the ice. Eat the burger while you're in the iceberg.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Oh, man, what a what a treat. You can't get out of the ice bath until you finish the half pound burger.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Challenge accepted. I don't know what we're gonna do, but but a hundred episodes is looming. We will most likely still be in well, there's no way, we'll still be in the book of Matthew when we're uh in because we were gonna go through seven, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:29

So and we and we have said um in our in our prep time and our in our planning and stuff like that, uh we would do this because it's been good for us, even if nobody listened. Right. But there are people who listen. And so thank you. As we as we cumbed up to a hundred episodes, thank you for listening. Thank you, citizen.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Thank you, citizen. Yes. Oh my goodness. It is fun. We do actually have these cables, they are plugged in, we do record, so it is kind of cool that that happens. Um I I love that part too. And and I I'm I'm excited for whatever we crack up uh for the for the hundredth episode. So, but I'm also excited just for the 94th. That's right. That's right. All right. Hey, uh adios, stay in the fight.