The Next Era of Software for Prosthetics and Orthotics with Zoltan Karpati

Guest Zoltan Karpati explains scan-to-fit, AI landmarking, and XR training while sharing a personal pet prosthetics story and a unified roadmap.

• replacing clear checks with real flexible interfaces for truer diagnostics
• extending second diagnostic wear to validate cushioning and relief
• controlling variables by avoiding returns to the old socket
• dialing fit with adjustable sockets and reduced manual labor
• scan-to-fit workflows with phone-based scanning and AI landmarks
• exporting to 3D printing or CNC with white-label options
• spatial reality training screens for classroom-friendly 3D design
• product roadmap for insoles, AFOs, and order management system
• personal story powering pet prosthetic development

Special thanks to Advanced 3D for sponsoring this episode.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to season 13 of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast. This is where we connect with experts in the field, patients who use these devices, physical therapists, and the vendors who help bring it all together. Our mission remains the same: to share stories, tips, and insights that help improve patient outcomes. Tune in and join the conversation. We're glad you're here and hope it's the highlight of your day.

Additive Manufacturing Trends

Adjustable Sockets In Practice

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast. You're stuck with me and my sidekick, Katie, today. Yoris is actually traveling. He was doing the additive manufacturing strategies conference. He was a chairperson of that. Amazing conference, by the way. If you want to know a little bit more about that, we may dive into that at another session. But essentially, what it is is the think about this is this is not a deep dive into how the technology works, but it is the leaders or the CEOs who are typically non-technical people that are sharing what they're seeing, additive manufacturing, 3D printing, all the other things that go along with it. What are the trends at the at more of like business macro insights? So very interesting. But before we get going too much, I mean, we've got some pretty cool stuff happening at Advanced 3D. And so I wanted to bring Katie into that conversation as well, just because she has spearheaded a lot of the adjustable socket stuff and along with our nitro material. So I just wanted to hear, Katie, from you, what do what do you see as some trends specifically for additive manufacturing and then what advanced 3D is bringing to the table?

Rethinking Clear Check Sockets

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Yeah, I'm happy to join in yours' absence. I've just been really enjoying using, you know, our our interflexible technology in the precursor to the definitive, actually incorporating the interflexible in the diagnostic fitting phase. So when you know for sure it's time to go to definitive, actually being able to reuse that shape and that interflexible right out of the diagnostic. You don't have to worry about any sort of, oh, I'm transitioning from this texture to that or the coefficiency of friction of this material to the definitive of my interflexible, you know, all in one. And especially when you get those patients who are in a zero ply, that sheath fit, somebody who you don't you don't want to play with anything. It needs to be exactly the same. That's that's been pretty fun, as well as just from really being back into the swing of being in clinic again after designing, solely designing for a year, being able to personally utilize these technologies on my patients rather than just designing for other patients has been really awesome. Always been a big fan of adjustable sockets. No human being should be shoved inside a static container. The level of control, having done many Revo sockets myself, the amount of time it takes, I feel pretty spoiled when I can make it exactly how I want to and take some of that hard manual labor out of it and get a beautiful finished product exactly how I expect it to be without any other inputs. So no, I'm spoiled.

Dialing Fit With Real Interfaces

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Well, I think that's pretty interesting. You know, I both you and I, we've been practicing for a long time. And, you know, the the general thought is hey, you do a clear check socket and then you go to a definitive socket with a flexible enter and such. And so I really thought it was, you know, pretty interesting. And I always say my, you know, I'm coming around on that as well, as far as why are we doing these check sockets so you can see through and then changing the coefficient of friction and the nature of the socket itself. Sometimes those check sockets may be a little bit more flexible. And uh, instead of going to like a uh Proflex with a rigid socket, patients are like, is this the same socket? And and yes, it's the same shapes, but the materials have changed. And so I think that is such an important thing to consider when fitting your check sockets is hey, you can't see through the liner anyway. So let's stop kidding ourselves on the clear check sockets and put the interface in that the the patient's going to have in the final socket and truly see how the whole system comes together. Is that is that kind of what you're saying?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Yes, I typically do a clear 5x socket for my first, whether it's 3D printed or traditionally fabricated. So still getting that visual feedback, all of those things. But on the second diagnostic for which I am again lucky and spoiled, you know, I work somewhere where the patient can go out for an extended period of time and really put the socket through its paces. And if you're going to have an interflexible and really take advantage of those benefits, especially, you know, posteriorly, or um, in the case of using our lattice interflexibles to provide, you know, a soft cushioned area, why not have that? So you know ahead of time are is that the right place? Is that what I want? And then being able, whether you go into a traditionally manufactured or 3D printed adjustable socket, you have that ability to know ahead of time. So, you know, don't throw the baby out with the bath while I still like to see through my check sockets, get an initial fit. But on that secondary one, getting them out the door, letting them have a little more time in it. I've had really a lot of good feedback from patients on that.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

I love that. Yeah, no, I think that's great. And it's it's I think for me, especially on that second check socket and why it's worth it, is not only do you get to you get to see that socket in the ply that you want. I think so many times people will go to definitives. And and it's not that you can't go to definitive, but you know, let's just say the patient's in a five ply fit. Is it truly a five ply reduction, or is it some in medial flat, medial flare, inner osseous space, maybe a little bit tighter on the AP? I I would have find it hard to believe that it would just be a five ply reduction.

Keep Patients Out Of Old Sockets

SPEAKER_03 6:11

And so and the five ply reduction on top of a different material.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Right, right. And so being able to see exactly what you need. And I think that's the secret to success in that. And I think the other secret to success with these adjustable sockets is you have to so many people will they'll come in in their old socket and then they'll go to the test sock and they're like, oh, that feels good. Then you put them into the old socket again, and then you add a flexible inner, you add a uh Revo dial or whatever adjustable stuff, and then they come back and then you take them out of their old socket into this one that you've changed now to things, and maybe you've done a reduction or whatever. And then they're the patients may say, Well, I don't like it that way. And so I think it's so important to have the check socket, and the patient stays in that check socket until the other socket comes in. And that way, that way you can actually have their shape, they're used to it, they're comfortable there, and now you're you've changed one thing, you've added adjustability to it, and it should accentuate the experience or the outcome for them.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

I definitely would agree, if at all possible, I do not want my patient back in that socket that they came in to have replaced.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Just too hard to have that internal recalibration, whether it's how it walked, how the limb shape was affected by a good total contact. You're gonna you're gonna lose that progress you made. And they'll definitely have a skewed view when they get back into the new socket, just from spending time back in that old socket. So yes, I agree.

Meet Zoltan And Leopoly

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Awesome. Well, we have a uh long-suffering guest. I'm sorry, Zolte, that you had to hear all the uh diving into the weeds of the clinical aspects of things, but we we always try to bring some of that in. So super excited to have you on. In fact, Katie and I were just talking earlier. So our guest today is Zoltan Carpathi, and he is the founder and CEO of Leopoly. And Leopoly has a lot of avenues that their technology is used in. I've seen some of the things that he's done in the orthotic and prosthetic industry. He's got some things in the Leopets, and then there's a lot of things that has nothing to do with ONP. So Katie and I are really excited to kind of dive into some of that. So uh thanks for coming on the show, Zoltan. Thank you for the invitation. Good to have you. So, uh, Zoltan, I mean, you've been at this for a little while. How did you get involved specifically in the orthotic and prosthetic side of things?

Building Multidisciplinary 3D Tools

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yes, this is exciting. So personally, I established this company with my co-founder partner Roland Magnay 10 years ago. And the original goal was that to develop and create 3D and ARVR software solutions and that develop different technologies in this era for the market. And there was uh a lot of things that have been changed in the in the past 10 years. But about six or eight years ago, we have started to cooperate with one of our largest clients to develop CD software where they can customize and personalize in source. So that was the origin. We have a very good deep technology knowledge how to create uh 3D for CD object manipulation on different uh levels. We are working together with mathematicians and programming experts and architects, and we have on one side, and on the other side, we had the knowledge of um of how to create easy-to-use softwares with good user experience and flexible uh modular capabilities of using these uh technologies. So these competencies were involved in our company, and we have started to develop for one client an in-sour customizer software. This is the origin. And meanwhile, uh we we developed the the in-source software, which is uh the the uh one of our best technology and solutions on the market. And parallel, we have started to develop other editors like uh AFOs, uh, prostatic sacrifice customizer, prosthetic customizer for for pets.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah, that's so so wild. And I think I'd love for you just to share. I mean, you touched on it just like it's nothing, but uh you know, any of this these digital tools really it's a it's a multidisciplinary thing. You you obviously need to know the inputs and outputs, but there's a whole lot of math and programming and other things, and especially at a high level in the 3D space, that that funnel starts getting smaller and smaller of the people that can actually do that. So, can you just share a little bit of your journey on how you got these kind of multidisciplinary people together to get your product to the finish line?

Scan-To-Fit And AI Landmarks

From Insoles To AFOs

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yes. Original, I had a previous uh startup where we have developed a virtual reality application hardware solution. And for that, we have developed a 3D design application where anybody could easily customize and personalize the objects and creating uh shapes, uh sculpting, we could say. Based on that knowledge, we had worked together with uh mathematicians and the programming experts, software developers, and we had the so that was one of the principles where we have started where we have started and established the Leopoly companies. And this software developer team, together we have started to create a direct solution for the OMP market where they can customize and personalize orthethics and prosthetics. So, answer to your question, we have our own 3D design engine where we are using different uh methodologies, how to uh edit, customize, personalize the 3D shapes of an orthotics or a prosthetics. And on top of that engine, we have developed different uh layers and modules where it could be this engine capabilities could be available in a web browser with an easy-to-use interface because our target market is the artistic and orthopathic doctors. So we would like to target them to let them create and use our software without any IT or graphic designer or whatever expert. So this is our original goal. Meanwhile, present days AI is entered into our world, and this AI technology is also integrated in our uh user journey into our softwares, into our software technologies. And now we are in a phase that uh we scan your body parts with an iPhone. For example, I made a scan of my uh dog's limb and with an iPhone. And based on that, uh, we have the scan data, we have the body scan, and based on that data, our engine can recognize different landmark points, and we can offer the best fitting prosthetic or orthetics. And this is the complete solution where at the end of this process, you will get immediately the best-fitting uh insole or AFO or any other orthetics.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

You started off in the doing the foot inserts or the foot orthosis?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah, so was that kind of your first foray into the prosthetic and orthotic industry? Was uh because that was your first product, right?

Software To Manufacturing Handoffs

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, the first product was uh insole customizer and editor.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Okay. And so what were some of the challenges that you that you had, not necessarily on the programming side of things, but how do I get a clear vision from the people that would be the ultimate end users of the product? You know, I've talked to so many developers and they're like, we can develop anything, but we have a hard time figuring out what the client actually needs. And so we may be on this road and we've developed something awesome, but it's actually not what they need. And so it's not useful to them. How do you how do you bridge that between you know having a great team that it knows this technology intimately, and then you have this end user that is a little bit nebulous, or so to speak, or or they may see a product and they thought that's what they wanted, but that's not really what they wanted. How do you how do you work with that?

XR And Spatial Reality For Training

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, this is a very good question, and this is one of the hardest parts of for job to make a good solution for for the brand users. So uh yes, it's it's a long journey learning, learning, learning what we have to done in in this trip. And know we are hiring and we are working together with artistians. We are working together with artistians from the European and from the US market also, because different uh principals, different schools are there, and uh we have to work with them. And this is the one thing, and the other thing is that uh we are working together in a very close relationship with our clients, with some of our key partners. We are working in uh in a very close relationship. And the third thing is that uh UI and UX experts, this is crucial to get involved in the development uh process, some kind of experts who can transform the requirements from the doctors, from the orthycians to a user journey where it could be easily used in a web browser to customize personalize 3D shapes in a web browser. And after we have to double check that the results, the end results, which means the orthetics and prosthetics is also could be used. So through this process, we are working together with these experts. What I have said, and uh this is uh not easy, this is uh uh a long trip, and now we are in a phase that we have an end product where we have users who are using and creating and customizing orthics and 3D printing or sending to other manufacturing processes.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

I was lucky enough to, oh gosh, it's probably now two and a half years ago, maybe three years ago, get to try um the AFO module.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah.

Is AI Hype Or Helpful

SPEAKER_03 17:04

And at that time, it was pre-existing modules with the ability to customize if you had kind of uh preset design or trim lines you liked, being able to customize some things to your own personal workflow. And then it was a uh like fee per download or token model that allowed you to export your finished shape and you could then go where you would like to for the add-of manufacturing side. Is that still true? Do you have any integration or partners direct from the modules, or is it still a you export the finished file and it's kind of yours from there to do what you will?

Pet Prosthetics Origin Story

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Basically, yes, but we have developed the different uh so we are continuously developing the AFO, the real AFO technologies, and we are working in a very close relationship with 3D printing company, and uh we are optimizing our software for different uh 3D printing technologies and printers, precise printers, and we can offer this which printing technology is good for the specific uh orthics. So we have a solution and we have an answer for these uh questions. But regarding the manufacturing process, so we are not uh a manufacturer of the orthetics, we are on the software side and we offer this uh software technology, and the integration to the 3D printers is also available from us. So we can create a custom white-label development if you would like to integrate to your existing uh 3D printing uh manufacturing uh methodology or CNC manufacturing is available. We have also partners who are using our technology to manufacturing on a on a traditional way. And uh also I would like to mention that we have a scanning technology. Uh, what I already mentioned that uh we have developed uh uh phone-based uh 3D scanning uh technology.

Roadmap, OMS, And Partnerships

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Very cool. Uh the other interesting thing that I did not know about was you know the side of training and education that you have across many disciplines. And it it makes perfect sense. We've all attended bloodborne pathogens online training, you know, all these things where you sit in front of a computer and and how how relatable is it? So I did not realize you guys had virtual reality training, whether it's for onboarding or quality control, complex medical procedures. So that's super cool. Something I didn't have any clue that you guys were in. My question would be: have you had any interest from O and P, whether it's schools or any major players, say, hey, what about this virtual reality, this training simulation? Have you had any interests show up from within our profession to use your virtual reality training?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Exciting question. We have uh a lot of partners from the ARVR education field, and we are developing different uh training and education applications to secondary schools and to universities, and also used in professional training situation in the healthcare industry, but not in the uh O and P industry. So we uh uh unfortunately or or fortunately, I don't know, but we don't have any partner whom we are developing uh VR training application in the O and P industry. We have clients, uh, I cannot mention the name, one of the largest uh healthcare industry player whom we are developing uh an augmented reality application, but they are not using for O and P things, they are using it for uh CD object visualization and uh and training purposes.

Closing Thanks And CTA

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah, well, I I definitely see I'll admit maybe ONP can sometimes be a little behind some other medical industries, but the way virtual reality and just education has changed in the years, even since I've been, I can see definitely some benefits of having that available for future, you know, our master's programs and allowing for hands-on but at a distance is very intriguing.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yes, I think um the there is a new kind of technology called spatial reality. I could I sometimes call them XR screens. These screens are auto stereoscopic 3D screens. So that means without any glasses, you can see in 3D because there is a built in eye track. In the monitor, and uh this tracking and following your eyes' position and can show a 3D image. So the objects are coming out from the monitor and appearing between the user and the screen.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Without needing any virtual reality glasses, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yes. Yes. And these devices, we have so we are developing, we have developed dozens of applications to this platform. So we have experience to creating that. And this is very useful in an education situation because you don't have to wear a fully immersive headset, and you can practicing and using this technology in a classroom situation or in a lab situation where you see the 3D screen, you can interact with a 3D stylus. So this is also very important because we have a 3D stylus and we can grab, manipulate, change the surface of the CD object shapes, and you see the teachers, so you see the other persons also. And uh this use case is uh very comfortable and good for the education purposes. And we are developing different applications and software solutions to that technology, but unfortunately not for the OMP industry. So I'm very open to further discuss this because uh it could be really good to use this this uh XR screen or SR screen technology into the O and P industry, because in the O and P industry we are also working with 3D objects, so it could be very obvious to use these uh technologies in the OMP industry field.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

You said an XR screen. I'm just not familiar with the technology. Can you can you dive into that a little bit more? Just say for a lay person like me?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

The name of the technology is Spatial Reality. Okay. This uh device is so the company who has developed this uh technology is Leia, and the Linovo and Acer is producing uh monitors and laptops, notebooks uh which using this screen technology. Okay, and on top of the screen, where there are the web cameras, the cameras. Yeah, there are built-in eye tracking technology. Okay, and this technology is following your eyes position. The screen, the computer knows where are your eyes in the space. And in the screen, there is a built-in nonolenticular lenses and can show separated image for your left and for your right eye. I don't know the more deep details about this technology. And uh in this case, these screens can show different images for your left and right eye, with the built-in uh head tracking, eye tracking solution, and you get uh 3D visualization in front of the screen. That's amazing. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

It's very cool. I just I just looked it up, a little side research. Almost looks like a shadow box, um, kind of a box with a slanted screen, and it looks like Sony makes one. Um that's yeah, Sony also makes one.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, yeah, but there are much deeper technologies, uh yeah, different uh technology what Sony created.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

You can uh search for um Acer Spatial Lab, Spatial Lab. This is where you can find the technology and uh Lenovo Lenovo's Think3D, or or I don't know the exact name of that.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

So I'd love to dive in a little bit too. I mean, you you did touch on it, and it seems as though AI is accelerating things at a uh at a rapid pace. Is that is that a hype thing, or is that truly true? Like I always I always love to hear from not only a like a founder, CEO, but then also from the team members of hey, this is allowing us to iterate quicker, you know, what have you. So what are is is it hype or is it is it for real, the AI thing, or is it hey, back off a little bit? It there's still a lot of things to work work out.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yes, um, it's it's uh hard for me to decide is it a hype or or not. We are using uh the technology and or engine or or uh or body parts uh and landmark uh recognition is supported by different AI technologies, but the developed uh or engine is developed by our software developers. And um, so yeah, this is the situation. For me, it's hard to decide how hyped this AI technology.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Okay. So you we talked a little bit about the the some of the prosthetic stuff and the orthotic side of things. How did the pet thing come to be? I know there's gotta be a story behind that.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yes, uh this is a personal story because I have uh a German Shepherd dog, and we adopted this dog. We don't know the background story because uh we have received uh that uh somebody has cut her uh leg. And that was the situation. She's living uh together with our family. We really love her, and uh, so we are so it's a very, very good, comfortable situation where we are living. And meanwhile, our team has started to develop an AFO for docs. And of course, I asked my colleagues that uh let's think about and start to develop uh a prosthetic socket solution to creating uh a socket for my dog, and we did it, and I printed out, and uh she's using uh or prosthetic socket my dog, and we just go for a round today morning. That's amazing. And yes, this is the situation in short.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Wow, what a what a great story. I mean, I would say that a lot of times many of these advancements come from you know a very personal interaction, like you, it's either a loved one, a pet, something like that, and the outputs are are pretty amazing. So that's super cool.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Yeah, I I also see that you guys have some, you know, you have your standard, the AFO, the insert, and then you kind of are advertising these custom options. And I see there's like a Leo arm before it looks like wrist hand orthoses, you've got a Leo helmet. Is this something where one of these existing modules is something that people can enter into similar with the fee for download? Or are these custom things that you may come and say, hey, this is my intellectual property, this is the item that I am creating, and then they can hire or contract Leopoly to help create that user interface that it ends up being their individual, possibly white label technology.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yes, we have end products and or clients, users, clinics, labs can uh licensing or technology and using there is a subscription-based business model behind that, and they can use these softwares. We have um products which are on the market, and we we have products which are in beta phase or not finished yet or not launched on to the market, which is ready on the market and available. This is the Rio Insole and the Rio AFO, and the other technologies, what you have mentioned, the shoeless, the and the ARM, for example, they are in uh beta prototype version, and we have some special partners whom uh we can make uh and give them opportunity to test our uh technology, but not the these uh softwares are not on the market yet. Okay. So we are very open if you would like to get involved, and uh yes, we are very open to cooperate.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Um, so what so what's next? I mean, you mentioned some of the the insul stuff and some of the stuff that you have in beta. Are you able to share a little bit more of even a big picture of hey, where where you're steering this company? Is it more partnerships? Are you really dialing into O and P? Are there some other things? I mean, you mentioned the AR, VR. It sounds like the O and P stuff is you know is very important to you, very close to you, but it's also hard to make money in O and P, uh, at least my understanding. And I would say I would have uh first first hand knowledge of that uh as well. So it looks like a diversified portfolio is a very smart thing to have.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yes, sometimes it's hard because we have to so if you are focusing on too many things, sometimes it's not uh so effective, but sometimes it could help and can encourage each other, uh, these uh technologies. So uh regarding the answer where we are going now, so we are focusing on the O and P industry and we are focusing on the insul and the AFO technologies, and uh we would like to get more partners who is using uh our technology and uh integrating our software into their uh production process. So this is our main uh goal. Uh we have uh tons of uh feature requirements in our developer roadmap, so we have to be very cautious about how to prioritize. So it's a hard uh thing to do that. And and also I would like to mention that we are developing this scanning technology, phone-based scanning technology, and also developing an OMS software, as this which means order management system where you can uh manage uh the scanning, editing, and manufacturing process. You can manage uh managing the patient data, scan data, the orthodox, and so on. So, this is a complete software solution uh where you can manage uh the orders. Uh, this is also a software which is uh enabler uh for editors, and this is also under development, and very soon we will launch it.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Very cool. Well, uh thanks thanks so much for joining the show today. This was uh super interesting. It's always good to get in the weeds of not only the the technology itself, but the kind of the heartbeat behind your company. And uh yeah, I'm really excited to keep on following what you have going. So thank you for coming on. Thank you. And uh Katie, thank you for hopping in last minute as well.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

And uh thank you to our listeners. You make all this possible. If you find this interesting, tell your friends, and thank you for joining the prosthetics and orthotics podcast. Have a great day.