How Hands-On O&P Education Builds Clinicians with Arlene Gillis

We talk with Arlene Gillis about how prosthetics and orthotics education is evolving and what it takes to train clinicians who can thrive in modern practice. We dig into hands-on fabrication, residency redesign, and the workforce pipeline that clinics need to keep patient care strong. 

• Arlene’s path into prosthetics and orthotics through patient translation and a life-changing fitting 
• How becoming an educator requires a new skill set beyond clinical training 
• What the move to master’s level O&P education changes for standards, scope, and credibility 
• Why hands-on fabrication time still matters even in digital and 3D printing workflows 
• Traditional residency versus embedded residency and how mentorship can continue after graduation 
• Who today’s O&P students are and how goals shift by background and generation 
• Work-life balance, debt pressure, and why some young clinicians leave for higher-paying roles 
• Business skills employers want most including coding, front office process, and cost awareness 
• Digital workflow training including scanning, CAD, carvers, 3D printers, and EMR exposure 
• Care extenders as a clinic model to improve access, speed, and workforce capacity 

Special thanks to Advanced 3D for sponsoring this episode.

Transcript

Who Listens And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone, my name is Joris Peels, and this is another episode of the Prosthetics and Orthotics podcast with Brent Wright. How are you doing, Brent?

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Hey Joris, I'm doing well, man. You know, it's it's one of those interesting things. I don't know if you've ever had this happen. I'm sure with your 3D print uh 3D pod, but um I was actually talking to a clinician, a multiple clinician recently, and one of the clinicians said, Hey, you know, when I'm riding my bike, I'm listening to your podcast. And I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. So you just never know who's listening, right? So like we get some data on who downloads and that sort of thing, but you don't really get any data on, hey, if they go straight to our website, do they stream it from there? So it's an interesting thing, but it always makes me feel good. It's like, hey, you know, I know we're doing this kind of for ourselves and to learn and such, but it's also nice that somebody else is coming along for the ride.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I think it's wonderful that uh to that people are enjoying this as well and and that uh we're helping people learn and stuff. So I'm really very happy with that as well. So who is our guest today?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Well, I'm super excited to have Arlene Gillis on today. She is with the International Institute of Orthotics and Prosthetics, has some pretty innovative stuff around education, residency, which we always are interested in getting into. So I'm really interested to hear her story. I got to uh meet up with her at one of these uh the OP conferences. So uh it's one of our electronic medical record stuff, and we were overlooking the yacht of the owner of the Jaguars when we were in Florida, and we were kind of shooting the breeze about where we see education going, the role of additive manufacturing, how can we play within the the rules currently available to us with ENCOPE and some of these regulatory bodies while getting the education students really need. So I'm really looking forward to diving into some of that and her journey. All right, welcome, Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Welcome. And and so

Arlene’s Accidental Start In O&P

SPEAKER_01 2:05

how'd you get involved with OMP?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Well, first, thank you both for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about OMP. It's a passion of mine. And uh I uh started in OMP by accident because I headed towards uh physical therapy initially. I was in a program at FIU and I was asked to translate for a patient who didn't not speak English and needed to receive a prosthetic. So I watched the process uh from beginning to end and and was with that patient translating every last step. Came in on a Monday and uh wheelchair and left walking on Friday, and that was it. I fell in love and I switched career paths.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Okay, okay. And and uh and right now, like what what for you is like like your area of specialization specifically? What do you what do you really do day to day where you're where you're you're involved in?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Well, I am the CEO of the International Institute of Orthotics and Prosthetics, which deals with multiple programs. We deal with uh different career tracks, as well as we have the mobility clinic and the mobility foundation. So I kind of wear a few different hats.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

And then and if you look across the world, I mean, uh if you're you're busy international, it seems to be from us anyway, that every single country is its own complete world with OMP. Like that everything works different, different devices are prescribed and and remunerated, remunerated in a different way, and and every single country seems to have tackled this problem very, very differently, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Absolutely. Yes. We're very fortunate in the United States. We have ENCOPE and ABC, and we have some standards in place that helps with the education process. And we also have ISPO internationally, but still, when you're talking about third world countries, uh lots of things can be skewed differently.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

What kind of started your journey down this education path? Has it always been that way? Or uh what was kind of the evolution of that?

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Well, let me just go back in history here. In the early 90s, I started off having my own practice and and life happens. I had two children and decided to sell my practice and stayed home for a couple years. And then I was asked to help start this school that was located in St. Petersburg and help out developing the curriculum and the program. And that was in 2005. So in 2005, I began to really learn about education because uh, as you know, being an orthodist prostitut does not really prepare you to become an educator. So I dove in and really wanted to do the best we could to educate these students and got a master's in education that helped me realize certain things that needed to be put in place to make a good quality educational program. And then at the same time, I decided to get involved with ENCO, and I volunteered as a board member and had an amazing experience with a great group of uh board members, and uh Robin Seabrook was just so helpful and helping to get me down the track of understanding accreditation and really focusing in on the OMP programs. And I was able to volunteer with an executive committee that was outstanding. I started with Mike Oro's, Jonathan Day, and Jennifer Richards, and uh Charlie Cuffel, and really had a wonderful experience.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

And if you look at this kind of thing, like if you look at the educating people worldwide, there seems to be a lot going on in people completely always like reorganizing these programs and doing different types of programs. Is it me or is it is it just like there's like in the education, it seems to be there's like a continuous reorganization type of thing going on at the moment, at least.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Well, I mean, it depends. If you're talking about the accreditation and the standards, those are somewhat able to be interpreted by each institution. And that's why there's differences at each institution.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

And just generally about education itself on the on the bigger path towards becoming uh working at OMP, is that is that a lot very, very different?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

It is very different. When I started, like I said, in 2005, we were at a baccalaureate level. In 2012, uh, we upgraded the standards to be at a master's level from NCOP perspective, and uh that changed things tremendously. So there was an uptake on the number of programs that were available to students in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Can you share a little bit about that transfer

From Clinician To Educator

SPEAKER_02 6:45

of from the baccalaureate to the master's and what that meant for education here in the US? And then just share some general insights like, hey, these are some of the pros and maybe the not so pros of moving in that direction.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Well, um, you know, I can't speak for the accrediting body. I'm no longer on the ENCOPE board, but I can tell you that it was an interesting journey that involved all of the programs helping to build those standards to move to the master's level. We had uh several meetings over a three to five year period that helped develop all the curriculum and that new standards for the profession, as well as it was available for the public to comment, and we had insight from all the major organizations as we were going through that process to move to the masters. So it was not something that was done in a vacuum, and COPE involved a great deal of individuals, and we had all the schools at that time involved in developing those new standards. And at that time, we all agreed on what those standards were before we can move to that next step.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Do you think that was right on time or do you think we were late, early?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Well, there's a few different um opinions in that area, but I know that you know we needed to move to that master's level so that we can stay competitive with other health professions and to make sure that there wasn't other healthcare professionals infringing on our profession. And so that was one of the rationale, along with so much new information and scientific data that we needed to include in the curriculum that wasn't there at the baccalaureate level. So I think, you know, a couple of different things that helped impact that. And it it's it's like uh, you know, making a change in direction for a huge ship it was a slow process. It didn't happen overnight. I think maybe some people didn't see it coming, but it was happening over, you know, a three to five year period, and it did involve not just the ENCOPE staff and the ABC folks, but it was open for the entire profession to make comments. When that change hit, you know, I think a lot of people didn't realize the impact it would have. But I can say that in my opinion, it feels like we have gained more programs and we also have greater impact on being at the table in the conversations with not just health insurance companies, but with other healthcare professionals so that we can stay active along with producing our own research and building the capacity to eventually get to a place where OMP is leading their own research and not having people from other disciplines and PhDs in other areas be the leader.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Okay. Well, I think that's I think that's super cool. Can you can you share just a little bit about uh the International Institute of Orthotics and Prosthetics? I know you said there's there's a couple different things that are kind of under that umbrella. I'd like for you to share a little bit about all those, but then really kind of hone in on what is a differentiator between the school, your school essentially, and other schools that are out there.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

All right. Um well, I can start with at IIP, we really focus on uh hands-on experience for our students. We have nearly 40,000 square feet with 25,000 square feet dedicated to fabrication and really training our students with hands-on fabrication and uh our standards really focus on not just the ENCOPE minimum requirement. We exceed that by providing more hours in the lab and allowing our students to really practice their hand skills in the facilities. Uh and that I think is is a critical piece, along with the fact that this program is four semesters, and then the students are able to go out into the real world and get a residency from there.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

So I think with your can you tell me how that residency works? I know that there's a myriad of ways that it goes.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

That's a great question. Currently, we have one track that is the traditional way that students graduate in four semesters and then they start a residency. And so we have applied to NCOP to have what they call an embedded residency, which is the Baylor model, and uh Dallas now has that uh model as well. So the International Institute will offer two tracks. So a student who is interested in just following the traditional method and going out and finding their own residency can do that. But then once this new track gets approved by ENCOPE, and we're we're pending the uh self-study review and our site visit sometime in the spring, hopefully, and then we'll be able to launch that over the fall. That'll give students the opportunity that are interested in us and our residency directors placing them at a residency site that is controlled or partnered with the International Institute, kind of mentoring them and continuing to oversee their education because that residency is meant to be the second part of their education, then they can register for our residency track program.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

And that sounds like a pretty cool way to do a residency. Still you're you're you're working, but then you're also still have access to say, you know, your your class essentially, but then also your the faculty that has taught you along the way. Do you do you find that that really makes a big difference?

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Or we are so excited about the potential of our new residency program because, yes, we have signed some amazing partners and continue to sign amazing clinics and partners nationally. And we're gonna work on some international sites as well, but they're gonna work closely with our staff. And like you said, they have access to everything here, all of our research facilities. They have the ability to meet still uh weekly and monthly with their staff. We have uh continuing curriculum and the ability to have them come back and then prepare for their ABC board exam, which by the way, we are the testing center for the American Board of Certification exams. So no matter what school you go to, you're gonna end up here at IIP to take your boards. But what our residency track will allow is for those students to come back on campus and they'll be able

Why O&P Moved To Master’s

SPEAKER_00 13:55

to take a mock exam with our faculty and prepare them for their uh ABC exam that will be held right down the hallway here.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

And what kind of like if you're looking at the students coming in now or like last year or this year or whatever, what kind of profile are they? Are they starting out of high school? Are there people that did something else before? What kind of people are they and and uh and what do they do before and what do they do after?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

That's a great question. Uh really we've seen the shift uh in the age of our students since we moved to the masters. So we have students that apply immediately completing a baccalaureate degree, which puts these folks typically between 21 to 25. That's the age of the, I would say 90% of our applicants. We do have a traditional, you know, uh somebody who has found it as a second career and maybe they're in their 30s or 40s and apply, but 90% of our applicants are in their 20s.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

And is there like a different like success rate between certain people that did certain bachelor's before this, or is it more difficult for some people with a bachelor's to of a certain type or certain degree to do this and easier for other people?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

I think really, you know, there's a a wide spectrum of people with kinesiology background, biology, anatomy, exercise science. We have physical therapists that have changed careers, occupational therapists in the program. So it really just depends. But I think that our program is designed where we are giving them everything that they need in that first semester to help build a successful outcome for them. So we really kind of backtrack a little bit that first semester and re-emphasize all of the skill sets, the anatomy, the pathology, neuro, and kind of give them a stronger building block before they get into the intro to OMP and all of those other courses. And we emphasize that we're doing this in a block model so that everybody has the opportunity to follow the same success track. So as we're working through our classes, even in the labs, we make sure everybody's doing the same thing at the same time, whether they're filling their plaster or modifying or pulling plastic, everyone's doing the same task at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

And and and what do these guys want? Because we we've talked a whole bunch of time about that younger people maybe are are more interested in work-life balance. Do you see that as well? Or are they more ambitious or ambitious in a different way? Uh are they really attracted to starting their own businesses, or do they want to, you know, what was it what are the the the the younger people coming into this field? Uh, how are they? Because a lot of people always talk about like, you know, the the standard thing that people say is like, oh, they don't work as hard anymore, or or they they have different goals. Is it is that kind of true, or they're a little bit they're very different, of course, they're generationally different. But uh how how do you how do you you're much closer to them than than than than most people? So how do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_00 16:54

They are very different and generational gaps. And of course you have that whole COVID phenomenon. But I would say in general, they all understand that they're going into clinical care. Um, they do have a need for work-life balance, but they also, you know, some of them are very passionate about their career goals early. And so those people, you know, jump in with both feet. Some people are more tentative. And, you know, I would say maybe the residency track and placement like that would be more beneficial for someone who's not sure. Like the people who come in and have an OMP background, they know their plan. They're either going to go back and work at Uncle Jimmy's or mom and dad or wherever they came from, that they have a background in OMP, they have a game plan. The ones that come in from kinesiology or, you know, maybe exercise science or biomedical, they don't have their game plan usually. But it's not true for everyone. I mean, everybody's work ethic is different. And I would say the generational gap does require that work life balance. And the fatigue that, you know, that you're talking about, I think it's not just fatigue from working long hours. I think there is also a uh financial cost and a fatigue that happens in many cases that we're losing some of our younger uh clinicians to possibly sales in manufacturing that pay more so they can pay off their debt. There's quite a bit of different reasons that people are are leaving the profession.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

And and what would your solution be? How do you think we could do to keep these people or to keep them longer or to make it easier for them? What would be your solution? Are you doing ideas on that?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Well, I I wouldn't say that I have, you know, the solution. I would say one solution is keeping the cost of OMP education down so that they're not financially exhausted and trying to pay back their student loans and that type of thing. If, you know, if they're going into a paid residency that doesn't cover all their cost of living, then you know, that's where people sometimes have issues.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

So with with that, I mean, is that part of the model that you're looking at for the residency side of things? Is he how do we how do we make sure we're not only reducing the cost to get into the field itself, but we're going to try to take care of you better and have a good learning model on the backside with the residency.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Well, you basically hit it on the nail on the head there. That's what we're trying to do with our residency program here is we're keeping the cost down and then providing them everything they need to be successful in the second half of their education, is the way that we're we're approaching this residency. So we're gonna give them a place to stay. We're gonna cover the cost while they're in our residency program for housing, and we're gonna make sure that they can focus on just what they need to do. They don't need to worry about where they're going or how to move and how to cover the cost. That is gonna be embedded in our residency program track that we're gonna offer in an attempt to help keep these people in our profession. And you know, they're so needed, and we're gonna try and do our best to keep the cost down of education as well as the cost of living for the students that choose to go down our residency pathway.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

It really strikes me, we've had this conversation before. It really does strike me also that a lot of people kind of randomly like walk into jobs because they're well, either they're from a particular region or that they study in a particular region or their partner's there, or something like that. But

Hands-On Labs And Embedded Residency

SPEAKER_01 20:40

we we we do see that there's like a lot of uneven distribution of OMP clinics, and there's a lot of uneven distribution of the opportunities as well. There would be some places that really, really need this, and you could make uh maybe uh quite a big clinic quite quickly, and other places where that's very competitive for well, just historical accident, really. I mean, I think I think OMP is much more uh you know the divided, I think, than than uh other. Can you give people advice on that as well to kind of like have them give a better idea of saying, you know, in Alaska, the cost of living is gonna be lower, but there's more industrial accidents or something like that. It seems a bit crude, but but but uh you know the the the there there is a lot, you know, there's a big, big difference between like going to one place or another, and there are places with a real need where there are too many patients and too few few practitioners, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Of course. And I don't really have a a one-stop solution for that, but I would say making sure that students know what they're in for and are fiscally aware of not just the cost of the educational programs, but the cost of living of where they're they're going to be during that educational program, as well as the cost of living for their residency program and being fiscally responsible and educated on what that track looks like to success to get to the CPO.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah, that seems really good. And and And and how many of the students that you're now graduating? Like are are are there are m are a lot of them looking for a job? Or are they are there a lot of entrepreneurs there that want to really go that path to having their own clinic? Or is there, you know, what does it skew one to the other?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Well, the requirements require them to become a resident somewhere. So yes, they they all need to come out looking for a residency in the big picture. Now, the ones that complete their residency and pass the American Board of Certification exam, then those people are free to go look for employment elsewhere. But the residents need to be placed at an ENCOPE residency site or embedded in the academic program's residency site.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

And beyond that, do you have any idea if if these you know the younger people wanna do they want to eventually start their own clinic? Or are you getting the idea they're much more comfortable working for maybe a larger system and then having a more of a job?

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Well, I would say it it's probably 50-50. Some people are intent to, you know, climb the corporate ladder and and and go with a larger company that has all of the resources, or some, you know, especially the ones that come with the OMP background, know that, you know, they want to go and start their own practice one day. So our advice is always to go get the best experience and exposure and and work hard for the those first five years so that you're able to do that if that's your game plan.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

And are we gonna have a crunch of like of like not having enough of these people? Oh, because everybody's always like standard in the interview is we don't have enough practitioners. But but are we gonna really have, do we know that does the data actually say like, hey, we're gonna like literally have a shortfall of these people at one point?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Well, there's a few things there. Uh number one, there's a workforce study being done by NCOP that will help answer some of those questions. Um, I think there's an older workforce study that did say and still shows that we're gonna have some gaps. But again, that's not within my purview at this point in time. I I do sit on the AOPA board and you know, I'm aware of certain needs, but I can say from the institutional standpoint, we're doing our best to meet those needs for the workforce by developing care extender programs and expanding our OMP program tracks. So, as I mentioned, we'll have the traditional track that we can now accept up to 120 students in that track. And then we're also launching the residency track that will allow us to bring more individuals into the profession. So, with those two tracks and our care extenders that include an orthotic fitter program, a pedorthic program, we now have an assistant certificate track, and we're going to eventually look at a technician program as well.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

And additive manufacturing, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Those lines, we're building some additional certificates. Exactly. That's where we were going. So we're gonna do additive manufacturing certificate with uh more than likely, Mr. Britt, right? So we'll we'll talk about that as well uh down the road. But we've launched a couple of new certificates and we've partnered with AOPA to launch a business certificate.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Okay, that sounds good because it's like yeah, the the amount of different, very, very different skills you need really to be doing this successfully, especially as an entrepreneur, I think is is quite uh dizzying, I think, for uh for younger people. And uh and then the okay, so you will do more of that in manufacturing. We love that, of course. But but for now, how important is the whole, well, let's say the whole digital pathway, the the cad the scan to CAD to uh to to to the 3D printed part? Is it do you think it's a very important thing, or do you think it's it's it's it's is maybe not as important as we think at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Well, I think it's important and it and it's being included in the standards. And like I said, we bring in folks and add that to our curriculum. We have a few 3D printers, and we've already embedded that, but I think once we create this certificate, that will also be a part of the curriculum that the students are exposed to on a regular basis within the program.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

And and and do you see any other evolving kind of you know, other areas of new interest, like like more carbon fiber, more other production technologies, things like that?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

I think there's a wave of new technologies coming. And what we're doing here in the labs is acquiring as much new technology to implement it, you know, per year, per semester as we as we acquire it. And so there's quite a bit of new technology that we have ordered and we're waiting to implement it. So you don't want to just like throw out everything. You gotta bring in those new pieces and introduce them and then kind of see how they evolve and and maybe give that more space in your um platform and in your curriculum. And you can do that within the the program or you can do it outside of the program and just offer it to the students outside of the program.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

And and and the students themselves, do they really have a lot of interest in like the digital manufacturing 3D printing part of this? Or is this is this something you kind of have to teach them because I because I you you tell you say it's important on time?

SPEAKER_00 27:12

No, they they love it. I mean, there's it's 50-50, right? You have the ones that are traditional and they want to work with the hands, get in there and cast, but some of them just are pulled towards that technology and they want to scan the patient, work on the computer, make their edits, and then send it to the carver, which we're very fortunate that we have a couple carvers here as well. So they have the full gamut of everything from working with traditional with your hands, plaster, fiberglass, or all the way to, you know, the the latest and greatest scanners and carvers and 3D printers.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

I'm sure that you have you get a lot of feedback from, you know, companies that are hiring the students that come out of IAOP. What what would you say is maybe the top three of things that they're just like, I wish students had this coming out of the program,

Student Goals Debt And Work-Life Balance

SPEAKER_02 28:05

say that that you're providing, or that's kind of on the wish list of like this is where I want to go.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yes, I would say the top, and if you speak to any of our regular locations that hire our students, they'll they'll say that the students come with great hand skills, right? Because that's one of the main focuses. They're great at the patient evals and all of the patient history, all that good stuff. Um, what I have heard the most is they wish they had more business skills, which is why we've created this new business certificate. In fact, um, that is going to be implemented into our students' curriculum. So they are gonna come out with that business perspective as well. So I would say that's probably the number one thing is um knowing more about business and how to code and uh, you know, the front end offices.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah, it it and it's it's and what would you if you had like an extra, if you had these students for an extra like uh 10 hours, 20 hours or something, what would you teach them? Is it is literally the same things as well? Is it like kind of like is that more that that kind of like that business element or or would it be different things?

SPEAKER_00 29:12

I I think so. I mean, you know, they're not gonna get hired to be research. And so we do quite a bit of teaching them research, but ultimately these students are gonna get jobs at a clinic that expects them to be a clinic and eventually a business manager of the clinic or a practice manager. And so those are the skill sets that that uh we're really gonna enhance in our program as well as uh having the hand skills because you don't know if they're gonna go work at a in a rural setting or if they're gonna work in a big corporate. But no matter what, they need to be able to communicate what needs to happen to that device so that it can be sent to the technician or to the 3D tech on what they need specifically to happen. So having that background and the technology background and doing it themselves is gonna be critical, but also understanding of the cost of what it takes to get that product and that prosthetic or orthotic out the door is vital for businesses to succeed.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

And also like a lot of people talk about, like for example, that now people's attention span should be lower, that that uh people that now are, you know, have no concentration, it's kind of like a tick-talkie type world. Is is that something you found as well, or is that kind of maybe a little bit over uh overrepresented that view?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Well, I get you know, I I have two kids in this age group as well. And I can't say that that's across the board. I say, you know, it's definitely having an impact, but it's not across the board the same for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

And with some of that, I mean, the uh what I find is with some of these younger clinicians, is the amount of information that they can intake and process is pretty pretty incredible. And some of the ideas that come across, whether it's social media or even just finding obscure articles about a specific thing, I think that's a a pretty interesting, almost like a superpower of some of the younger or newer clinicians.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

I mean, they know how to use AI and they know how to do things that you know that maybe we struggle in our age group a little bit more to do. I mean, and they're just like they can find that answer quickly.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Well, and I'm glad you brought up AI. I mean, where where do you see that going for O and P, maybe not maybe not only in education, but in say the business side or decision-making side of things.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

I think it's coming. And uh, you know, that might be another certificate that we'll be launching here soon.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

You and your foreshadowing, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Well, I mentioned it for a reason. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. And I think the more we prepare on the front end, the better off we'll be when it hits us.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah, no, I agree. And I um speak to just a little bit about I know you do some stuff with Paul Prusikowski from OP. What what are you guys doing there on the is that part of some of the coding stuff and that sort of thing that's that's going on and and work for flow?

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Absolutely. Our intent is to use OP within the program. So right now I've got my staff up at the clinic implementing Opie. And so once they become proficient, that's gonna roll over into the school as well. So, you know, kind of train the trainer and have access every day. So our students are not just getting exposure to it in the clinic. They're gonna have it for their utilization in the curriculum as well when they see patient models. I think it's it's critical. And it is a piece of that understanding the business side of what we do and being able to implement that process properly so that you know they can hit the ground in their residency and be able to do SOPs and understand how that process goes.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

And I know we glossed over it, but I think it's super important about what you said. I mean, we talked a lot about, hey, these are the clinicians and such, but this idea of care extenders, we really uh Yoris and I really haven't dove into that aspect of that. So I'm kind of curious your perspective on the care extender side of things, but I'm guessing that is also going to show up in the the study as well. Is uh are we, do we really

Digital Workflow Business Skills And AI

SPEAKER_02 33:35

have enough people? Can we take care of it through care extenders and make sure that we have the right amount of people for the workforce? I'd love to dive into that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

And so again, our plan with this care extenders is to have enough of those to go around to serve and all of the practices that need them nationally. Um, and they will serve, just as we said, as a care extender, where the practitioner will practice at the top of their scope, and then they can have an assistant, just like physical therapy, go in and do the the things that don't require a clinician to be in the room or signature, right? So there are aspects of what we do in a clinic that can go faster if we have that care extender practicing right alongside that clinician. And I think that's the whole point is that if a clinic wants to be efficient and effective, and the clinic that we're building will eventually have all of those care extenders. So we can practice what we preach, we'll be able to show it to the students. This is what it looks like to have a successful model, and then make sure that each one of the care extenders that we train are are exposed to. This is what it should look like, and then we'll be able to help our clinical partners and our residency sites build the same models and provide them with the employees that they need. That's kind of the goal. Our um our our model is to help build the workforce. In fact, we uh have another name, and that name I'll let you know it is the workforce university. So we're gonna be able to help build our workforce and get those practices, the employees they need. And we're building very unique and specific tracks that the employers can partner with us and tell us exactly what they need and we'll train them up and get them back out to the workforce.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

So, I mean, it sounds like the getting some of the the uh for lack of a better term, the mundane or the the stuff that doesn't working I like what you said, working at the top of the pyramid, at the very top of their skill set, a clinician's top of the skill set uh makes a lot of sense. Is there is there anybody that you know of that's implementing that well?

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Well, we're we're working on it here. So I would say, you know, I haven't been in in too many other clinics just yet, but I know that, you know, let me come back to that answer another point in time. But you know, I can't give like clinics.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, guys, wait. I I know nothing. So what is a care extender? Like har hamburger helper for OMP, it's like a robot, what what is what is this?

SPEAKER_00 36:24

So basically a care extender is someone that will help that practitioner take care of the patient and provide the services. So basically, you know, there's a pyramid and the person on top it has the credentials to do every last bit of it, where you might have an assistant that can only do partial care without the supervision of that clinician, and then you might have a technician that would help build the prosthetic, and then you know, you may have a fitter that would go out and do the soft good, but still all under the pyramid of that clinician at the top of the pyramid.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

But then then if that's gonna be a model, do you see that becoming more prevalent, that that more people will be managing more people with different jobs? Uh is that is that is something that you see uh is gonna happen a lot in the future?

SPEAKER_00 37:15

I think that's happened in other professions like physical therapy and occupational therapy that allows those um therapists to be responsible for more healthcare. And I think that is something that's going to impact OMP as well. And with the the shortage of OMP clinicians, the fact that you know that we're putting out less than 300 uh clinicians with all of the OMP programs, that's why uh we've expand expanded our capacity here to be able to do up to 120 a year to help with that that workforce need. And so uh I think it's going to impact O and P. And if we don't uh adjust, someone else will adjust for us.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Okay, okay. And and then do you think that other things like kind of like negotiation, management, for example, entrepreneurship, would are these things going to then become more important and maybe some of the more technical skills are gonna be less important, or are they even paradoxically more important because you need to know what people

Care Extenders And The Workforce Fix

SPEAKER_01 38:20

need to be doing the work for you?

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I think it's the latter. At least from our perspective here at this institution, I think it's it's critical that they know. I know that a lot of talk from other educators want to go away from that, but I think someone needs to know how to fabricate. And so we can't have that go away because then you do not know who's gonna give the directions or who's gonna figure out what's wrong. Right. And so for us, we've doubled down on the fact that these students need to understand the fabrication process. Not saying they're gonna be the fabricator, but they certainly need to understand it and and spend time doing it so that down the road they can give somebody the directions. And yes, I think that uh, you know, it's gonna be impactful in our profession.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

How about how do you look at that, Brent, for your own practice that's uh the people you work with? Are you are you looking actively saying, hey, I want like more technicians, more other people to help me, or am I looking for more OMP people? What's the balance that you look for?

SPEAKER_02 39:25

You know, it's an interesting thing. I really like the idea of the care extender because you know, what we're finding is just like Arlene said, we're graduating less than 300 students a year into orthotics and prosthetics, and most of those people are going to want to be around family. You might be able to attract somebody with a pretty large salary, but I would say, and Arlene, you might have to help me on the date on this, but most of the times people will boomerang back home. And so the care extender side of things is is super interesting to me, not only for some of the new grads that are coming out, but even some of the more seasoned clinicians, because it does help them get their job done quicker, gets paperwork done quicker, and and therefore it probably makes a very good business sense because you're also realizing your revenue in a in a much quicker way as well, if you compress a lot of this. And in the end, the patients get better care, they have better access. So whereas you know, you might be scheduled two weeks out for a simple simple appointment, you actually might be able to get them in, you know, the very same week or you know, within a week with a care extender, because you know that you're not going to have to block out such an extended time. So I really love the idea. And the other thing it does is kind of like what Arlene was talking about with some of the work-life balance. And what I've seen in our practice is it helps people get out the door at closer to the end of business, right? When business is done, business is done, and they're able to get out the door and on to life, family, you know, you know, pottery class, rock climbing, whatever it is. The kickball. We've got some people that love uh kickball and softball and and things of that nature. And I think it's a great value to add to your company. So I love the idea. We don't have one, but I think we would be uh one of the first in line to be very interested in uh pursuing that.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

You're looking for partners because it's an innovative program, but we need partners to be able to give them the clinical exposure.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Well, let's go. Let's go, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

All right. That's a really, really nice thing to end off on, I think. And uh thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Thank you for having me. I appreciate the uh opportunity to talk about OMP.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Thanks uh always uh to Yeah, this is this is great. And uh Arlene, yeah, thanks for always advocating for our profession for good patient care. I think it's uh I think it's a really critical thing, and I look forward to seeing where Iop goes and uh also look forward to adding uh value whenever it's whenever you're ready for the additive manufacturing side. We and we might be able to get Yoris from across the pond to come in and and talk a little bit uh as well.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

All right. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

It'd be interesting. Uh I would feel out of my depth a little bit, but if it's generally additive stuff, yeah, totally.

unknown 42:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Then I can then I can do lots of stuff. Uh and thank you uh for listening to another episode of the Prosthetics and Orthodox podcast. Have a great day.