039 How Your Perceptions Can Sabotage Or Bolster Your Progress: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 29

What we're thinking or feeling at any given moment is often dramatically different from our external reality. Aligning your internal dialogue to be closer to the objective truth can be a valuable skill for progress, happiness, contentment, and confidence. Tali and Cody offer up some ideas on how we might develop a healthier outlook. 

08:20 Pat Flynn "Hard to read the label when you're inside the bottle"

11:55 Expectations vs Results

18:45 Advice for injuries

25:51 Power Posing

28:45 5-Minute Morning Mindset Boost, watch here!

29:00  The Huberman Lab Podcast

31:49 Differences between how you're feeling and how other's perceive you 

34:43 An opportunity for us to develop more compassion

36:19 Self-criticism isn't something to eliminate

44:01 Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown

45:40 HowToFitTogether.com

46:39 Mentorship: reconciling our internal state and our external reality

47:59 It's a massive mistake to assume that everybody else is experiencing things in the same way you are

50:22 Assessment: 023 The Magic Of Metrics! The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep.13

54:11 Learn more about Objectivism

01:02:01 Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear

01:02:53 Take the drudgery out of your self-discipline 027 Make Self-Discipline Easier With This One Practice: The Philosophy Of Fitness #17

Couples - Proven Fitness & Intimacy Practices To Achieve Your Health and Relationship Goals Together!
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Transcript

Cody: 0:56

Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh. And I'm

Tali: 0:58

Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of Fitness podcast on the Live

Cody: 1:03

All Your Life Network.

Tali: 1:23

I had an icebreaker in mind and I'm completely forgetting what it was. sorry. Oh. I remember what it is. Who is your favorite performer or what's the best performance you've ever seen? Or maybe not shit. Sorry. Not favorite or best, but what is a notable performer experience that you had?

Cody: 1:43

Greta Van Fleet at the Schnitz. That was pretty great. That was fucking amazing. That was like mind blowing.

Tali: 1:51

Whoa. I remember we walked in and I think we were late to the opener, which was a bummer cuz it was Dorothy. Mm. No last name. And her music is like really hardcore. I just remember being so steep. Yeah. Remember we were walking in and we were like looking down at the

Cody: 2:06

stage. Yeah. That theater's cool cuz everyone has a good, good seat. Like you can see. Are you sure it was the

Tali: 2:10

Schnitz? Yeah. Because I'm thinking it might not be, but I, we were up in balcony. Mm-hmm. and I guess the only other time I went to the Schnitz was I was sitting down on the main level and it was a really different experience. So I

Cody: 2:24

don't remember. Yeah, there's a balcony above us. That's why I remember cuz when we. Our feet got tired and we walked back. Yeah. And there was just like regular chairs for some reason. Mm-hmm. and there was a ceiling, really low ceiling over us. It's cuz there's a balcony over us too. Oh. So I'm

Tali: 2:39

pretty sure. So a few tears maybe. Yeah.

Cody: 2:41

But yeah. Great Show Greta Van Fleet Man, if you are into rock and roll, you should check'em out. But for sure live performance. I mean, it was unreal. Dudes got pipes. Oh yeah. And every song sounded like the finale. Like every song was like this 12 minute like scorcher of just like epic playing. It was really cool.

Tali: 3:02

Yeah. And it's, I always say that people sound better live than they do on record and hopefully yeah. That is the hope. But this was like to such a degree that I wasn't prepared for because they sound amazing. recorded. And this was like, I tell people that that show like melted my face. Yeah. Like it was so powerful. Mm-hmm. and I just felt, you know, that I don't know if it's a music video or a picture of like the guy who's leaning back cuz the speaker's like blowing his

Cody: 3:33

hair. Yeah. That's an old Memorex commercial. Sure.

Tali: 3:37

Whatever that is. Cassette tapes. Oh, okay. Well it reminded me of that. I just felt like I was being like, assaulted in the face in the very best way. Oh yeah.

Cody: 3:46

That was amazing. Okay, so how about you?

Tali: 3:49

Oh man. Well that's really hard to choose. I feel like there are so many. Oh,

Cody: 3:58

I have many. I could list a bunch, but that, that one really came to mind quick because you and I went to that show together and I think you and I have been to more than a handful of shows together now. Yeah. And some really amazing ones. Jack White and

Tali: 4:11

that was insane. We just went to Pretty Reckless and that was such a fun show. That was really fun.

Cody: 4:17

Yeah. We've seen some really, really great artists, but Greta Van Fleet, like was just so far and above all of them. Yeah, I would say that, that just, they like,

Tali: 4:25

yeah, that might, that might be really high up there.

Cody: 4:29

It's hard to, was a close second though, cuz we saw them pretty close together. I think we saw him a few months apart. Yeah. And

Tali: 4:34

we got pretty close to the stage for Jack White, which was really cool.

Cody: 4:37

And when he, when that version of Seven Nation Army that they did live was like chilling, like it just like, oh yeah, you could really feel it. It was amazing. The whole crowd was in it and it was like slow and funky and dirty and really great.

Tali: 4:55

I actually do have like a top performance that I've seen and I think it's kind of an unexpected choice. what you gonna say? Dixie Chicks. I am gonna say Dixie Chicks That's so funny that you knew. They are known actually as the Chicks now. No more Dixie. But I took my mom to see them in concert for Mother's Day. And it's kind of a funny story because I bought the tickets. It was at this amphitheater, I think in Washington. And the weather looked kind of iffy, so. even though I had bought the tickets as a gift to my mom, she bought better tickets and ended up taking me. So that's funny. Yeah, it was, it was kind of a, a silly situation, but, you know, bless her. She's so sweet. And you know, I grew up listening to their first album with my mom, like on repeat in the car. It's very much the soundtrack to my childhood, but I guess one of the reasons that it felt so epic is, you know, they're a really well established band. They've been touring a long time, and they also probably have a lot of money to put into these tours. Mm-hmm. and it really shows in terms of like the lights and the sound and the stuff, like all that extra stuff. It really felt like an experience. Mm-hmm. and not every show needs that to be really special, but in terms of like, something like blowing my mind mm-hmm. that. Felt kind of like it. Yeah. Yeah. It was a major show. It was so great. Well, if

Cody: 6:31

we're going down Country Lane, I have to also give an honorable mention to Garth Brooks, because you saw him in concert. I saw him in concert when he was still kind of like in the high point in his career. Okay. And maybe like after the peak a little bit, he was still kind of out there in the, in the world. And it was like, ha. It was like so intensely energetic and parts of it were like a magic show. So like at this one point, there's this video that he does called The Red Strokes, where he's like in this white, white suit with a white hat and a white piano and everything's white, white, white. And then there's like paint being like slung around. Oh wait, did that on stage? Well, no. He came up in a white outfit playing the piano just like he is in the, in the video. Music, music, music video. Yeah. He come up out of the stage like this and he's playing and playing and playing. And then you hear singing. And then the piano like opens up and like a black suited version of him comes up. And it turns out somebody else was playing the piano that looked like him. Oh shit. And he thought it was him. But then he comes up and he's like, all in black and he's like black Garth Brooks with a black hat and everything and jumps off and there's like wires, like acrobatic shit. Like it was like insane. Yeah. And this, the dude was like, he was probably 50 at the time. Cool. And still just putting a hundred percent out there in his shows. That was pretty cool. So that's a icebreaker. We are seven minutes in. Should we move on? I just

Tali: 7:59

have one more honorable mention, and I don't want this to, I didn't necessarily want this just to be limited to concerts because I love all kinds of things on stage.

Cody: 8:10

You've seen a lot more theater than I have.

Tali: 8:12

I have. And I really loved Wicked. I went to go see it with my friend Ty. She originally wanted to take her boyfriend at the time, and I was like, come on. Like, don't, don't waste a ticket on somebody who like, doesn't care as much about the theater as I do. And yeah, I cried several times. I also cried several times at Dixie Chicks, and I think that that's another reason that it stuck out to me is that there was like all this extra stuff to it, but it was also an incredibly emotional experience. Yeah, I cried a whole lot. I feel like if I've cried at something like that's how, you know, it was a good time.

Cody: 8:49

Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like more of your association with those things than it is their

Tali: 8:53

performance, though. The performance was so good. Okay. Don't even, I'll believe you. All right. Onto today's topic.

Cody: 9:01

Yeah. So what is today's topic? Oh, well, it's kind of the difference between, so we're doing another episode of the Philosophy of Fitness. So taking from the world of fitness into the real world, or I should say the rest of the world

Tali: 9:14

the difference. You always make that distinction. I've heard it several times. I hate it when I say

Cody: 9:17

real world cuz it's like fitness

Tali: 9:19

is everything's real world. The real world. Yeah.

Cody: 9:20

But yeah, so the idea of when you're doing a movement and maybe it looks good to your coach, but it feels wrong if something feels bad. And there's a flip side to that too. Sometimes people can do movement that they. Feels good. And it's like, no, no, no, no. You need to stop what you're doing. So there's this kind of concept that Pat Flynn likes to say that it's difficult to read the label when you're inside the bottle. So I think today we're just gonna play around with this idea of the differences between when you're maybe performing well, but it doesn't feel like it, or maybe you feel like you're on and you're not. And this mismatch between our proprioception, word of the day folks, geez,

Tali: 10:02

Louise. Perform deception. Yeah. What it feels like versus what it looks like. Mm-hmm. And you had talked about, you know, maybe an athlete and coach and what that perception might be from one side to the next. I was thinking about it when we're videoing lifts. You know, as, say again? Yeah. As remote coaches, we're getting a lot of video analysis opportunities and, you know, I try to post things online from time to time when we're lifting and, you know, I do trust your eyes, but I also want to be able to look at that stuff myself as well, see if I still get it. And so there are a lot of times where a lift feels like dog shit. And then I look at the video and I'm like, oh, that looks pretty great. And it's always been a little bit mystifying to me, like how that could be the case. And my first thought was always like, oh, thank God. Like, I'm glad the struggle or the, you know, the breakdown wasn't evident mm-hmm. In watching it, but it still goes to show that, you know, there's some work to do there.

Cody: 11:08

Yeah. Well, and sometimes your body is telling, talking to you in ways that don't make themselves evident visually, or maybe it's too, too subtle.

Tali: 11:15

Yeah. It doesn't feel subtle though, like Yeah. You know, when you see. like receiving a clean or something and your body isn't coming up as like one single unit, like your hips and chest. There's like kind of a breakdown between the two. I always feel that happening when weights are really, really heavy and it feels really severe and I'm like, oh fuck, I don't wanna post that. That's gonna look like crap. Mm-hmm. And I don't wanna like spread that around or make people think that that's like okay or something to aim for or anything like that. But then I watched the video and you can't even see it. Mm-hmm. which is cool, but I think it's weird. I think it's super, super strange.

Cody: 11:53

Yeah. Well I was immediately relating this to aspects of outside the gym life with, so did I pretty quickly regards? Yeah. With regards to our current state of business and my work weeks and that kind of thing. I've had a lot of distractions lately, so maybe it's not a good example. Recently but sometimes You know, we can get this critical voice that we're not doing enough, we're not doing enough, we're not doing enough. And sometimes, you know, you will come home from work or at the end of the week or something and you'll give me a pat on the back about how much I've done in the week. And I'm like, I didn't feel like I got Jack's shit done. Like I feel like spinning my wheels a lot. But that's because there's a gap between my expectations for myself and Sure what I actually produce. And there will always be a gap between my expectations and what I produce in a way, because it's easy to imagine perfection. It's easy to imagine things getting done versus actually doing the work, which takes time and energy. You know, emotional involvement and all these kind of things that can be a little off and that's never consistent. And we're human, and so we're never operating like machines. But it's easy to imagine, you know, what a perfect productive day

Tali: 13:16

would look like. Uh, Aka this whole weekend, Yeah. I feel like this weekend did not go to plant at all.

Cody: 13:22

Yeah. Yeah. But I think sometimes it's evident, you know, like, you know, you I'm sure have noticed since I've had some dental issues lately, and it's been very painful and distracting and tiring because I actually had an infection, so it made my whole body tired. And it was not just like a couple days, it's been like when you had like

Tali: 13:40

three weeks Yeah. Like appointment after appointment and you'd kinda like restart that whole cycle over again each time.

Cody: 13:46

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm sure that recently you've been able to see like a, a slip in production as far as the stuff I'm getting done mm-hmm. But before that it was a little bit more like the clean that you were talking about where like, I felt like it was, I wasn't. I still wasn't really on, but you were like, you're getting so much done. I'm so proud of you. Thank you for all you're doing. And I'm like, eh, what so well

Tali: 14:08

you would tell you didn't look that good to me. You would tell me like things that you got done and you know, I don't, not being the person who's doing the work, I can't really accurately assess like how much energy that's taking you, how long it takes to do those things. Mm-hmm. and I'm also your partner and I'm also a coach. And so I know that it's important to give positive feedback regardless. too. You know, you're just blowing smoke. No, what I'm saying is like I know that it's important for you to be productive and I want that for myself too. And I know. congratulating yourself for what you did do is such an important step. We talk about that with our clients all the time, that you have to celebrate every stinking win. And I told that to one of our clients this week who was horrendously sick, felt like, you know, they couldn't track their food, they didn't get their workouts in, but they tracked the couple of walks that they took themselves on. Mm-hmm. And I was like, fuck. Yeah. Like, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. That's really important. That shows me that you are in this, that you're engaged, you're still, your intention was there. Absolutely. Yeah. That stuff is major, and I feel the same way. And it's not blowing smoke because I don't think that that's, I don't find it silly. I don't find it minuscule or anything like that. Mm-hmm. like those things are wins. Life gets really busy. It gets really challenging at times. you know, just to give an example maybe in more real time, I hurt my back this week and I don't know if it was just like one thing in particular or a couple of things, but to the point where like, getting off the couch was audibly painful. And today, you know, we did a really hard workout yesterday that probably made it worse. It was like a million reps.

Cody: 16:01

I haven't misjudged a workout that badly for I would say 15 years.

Tali: 16:07

I knew, I knew we were doing it wrong as we were writing it, cuz essentially what we did is. So we're following CrossFit main site, and included in that are the workouts for the open. And we don't necessarily have all the equipment space, yada, yada, to do those workouts that's prescribed. So we made slight adjustments and we had a friend over, so we made it a team workout. And what that resulted in was a workout inspired by the original with like 5 million more fucking reps. Mm-hmm. and like 60 burpees a piece can really fry ones back. Mm-hmm. But I didn't actually feel it throughout the workout at all. But the day after I felt really, really wrecked. And the whole afternoon, I guess after that workout too. And you and I went down to the gym today, you did the main site workout and I just did rehab. Rehab movements. Yeah. Like box step ups and mm-hmm. various stretches that I already know or that my previous chiropractor had taught me. And, you know, recruiting foam rollers and lacrosse balls and all the things. And I am stoked to have gotten down to the gym. Like, to me that feels like almost as valuable as yesterday or another day where I like really hit it hard. Oh yeah. It was what I was capable of doing today. I still did it.

Cody: 17:26

You did all the right things. I mean, so many people, and myself included, like I know better and I still have a tendency to, if, if you're hurting, especially a back situation back or neck, those two things, it's just like, man, you just don't wanna move at all. Yeah. And that's, that's what you should not do. I mean, you have to move, you have to, movement is healing movement is magic as Greg Glassman would say, but that's, I agree. It

Tali: 17:50

it goes against everything you want to do.

Cody: 17:52

Yeah. And I can't be overstated. So you, I was really proud of you for getting down there and doing that.

Tali: 17:57

Well, I actually had to set the record straight earlier too. I was on a phone call with my family and someone had said, you know, when I hurt my back, like, I know my job is to just like stay as still as possible and like lay really flat and like, that's gonna be my day. And I was like, actually, I have a really different way of going about these things. I need to push through those points where I'm like babying myself mm-hmm. so that I can teach my brain that this is not unsafe, that I can push through full range of motion. Mm-hmm. you know, I might just have to breathe through it differently. Yeah. Or move a little bit more slowly, but a lot of times, The injuries that we have are not necessarily what create bad movement in the future. It's our hesitation to work through them adequately and all the babying or like being too afraid to like, you know, reach your arm up or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. that hesitation is limiting to the movement pattern. And you can get stuck there. Yeah. You really can. Yeah. So it was really important for me to do all the twisting today, all the updos down dogs. Like, that's kind of the strange thing about this back strain is like, I can do everything. But standing up is really hard. Yeah. And painful.

Cody: 19:11

Yeah. Gonna, I'm gonna go on a tangent a little bit. I'm ready because I think it's valuable for listeners.

Tali: 19:18

I'm so sorry. I have so much like cat hair all over my face. Yeah. I can't stop.

Cody: 19:21

Well you put your face in the cat. I love them.

Tali: 19:24

I love them.

Cody: 19:25

So this is a little bit of fitness education. For those of you listening that's a little bit apart from the philosophy of fitness. This is just actual usable advice. And when you, when you get injured, there's several things that can really turn an acute injury into a chronic problem. And the reason we're talking about movement so much and getting moving as soon as possible is that you, there's lots of different systems at play, and I think they're all the same thing. I mean, it's kind of like this eastern philosophy versus western philosophy thing where a lot of modern medical science wants to partition the body. There's, there's the muscles and there's the fascia, and there's the nervous system, and there's this and that. It's like, well, they all, they're all one system. Like they all work together. And so I, I see these things paralleling when injury occurs. And if you don't move, you increase the thickness of the fascia around the injured area. Anytime you're not moving any part of your body, you increase the fascia because fascia, which is if you've ever eaten a steak, just to really quickly describe what fascia is, it's kind of that webby stuff that's in and around the muscle, and it goes all the way through your whole body, and it's all connected through your whole body. There's it's very new science, I mean new as in the last 20 years or so to even consider fascia as an organ of the body, right? Like it was just sort of overlooked for centuries. Anatomy. It's kind of odd, but they're realizing that there's, it, it actually carries some very important functions, but one of those functions is that it can actually turn into a cast inside your body.

Tali: 21:02

It's tough as shit. And I can attest to that because we butcher our elk and our deer. Yeah. And cutting through some of that is shocking. Yeah. I was really enlightened through that experience. It'll

Cody: 21:16

be, it'll dull your knife. Yeah. Yeah. And so if you being hydrated is super helpful. Yeah. Hydration and movement. But movement is like the key because I think it's, we've taken for granted that, you know, as you age, you lose range of motion in your arm for reaching overhead. It's not as you age, it's as you stop using that movement. Yeah. And so use it or lose it, your body's gonna try to like protect. Range of motion by growing that thick fasc all around it. So there's kind of a physiological problem. There's also a neurological problem mm-hmm. Whereas if you, that's what I was talking about, right? If you treat, if you take small steps and you're not reaching very far and you're, you're, you're protecting your body by how these small movements are worse yet no movement by just laying your body your mind body connection, if you want to call it that. Your nervous system actually starts to learn where these range of motions should be as far as staying safe, and I put should be in quotes because it's what you're teaching your brain. We should take smaller steps and that is, again, it's a death now because you're gonna lose range of motion because your brain won't let you sometimes we do these types of stretches where we'll kind of go to end range, which is kind of where it start to feel like a stretch. We'll hold that for a little while and then contract those same muscles. For eight, 10 seconds or so and then release, and then all of a sudden you gain two inches of range of motion on that joint. You didn't change anything physically. What you did is you taught your brain. It's like, wait a minute. We're we're able to contract at this, what we're, what we're feeling as the end range. And if that's the case, it's not really the end range. Like you still have control over muscle movement at that age. So it's not the quote unquote end range physiologically. And then you can train your brain to add a couple inches. Add a couple inches, and I can do that. I can demonstrate that with somebody in three minutes. Yeah, like it's noticeable difference. But if you spend too much time there, you train your brain in that bad pattern. Earlier in the podcast, I used the word proprioception, so I just wanna uhhuh define it real quick. Thanks. Proprioception is the communication between your movement and your brain. Mm-hmm. and

Tali: 23:34

proprie Proprietor section. Proprioception.

Cody: 23:38

Proprioception. Yeah. I'll spell it in the description of the poly moly episode. So read through that. And basically the easy way to think about this is if you hold your hand behind your back and wiggle your fingers, you know what your fingers are doing. Like I know. First finger, middle finger, ring, finger, pinky. Right? Okay. I don't have to look at them to know that that's what's happening. Okay. So if you have to look at it to know what's happening, that's a lack of proprioception. Proprioception is your brain knowing where your body is in space and how it's moving. And that relates a little bit to what we're talking about in today's podcast, which is sometimes a disconnect between how things look and how they feel. And in the. physical in the physiological world. Biology, that's proprioception. So I'll get off this tangent in a second, but if when you're injured and you train your brain to shorten range of motion, you can also lose proprioception, which means if you're babying a knee or a back or a shoulder or something, by practicing very small movements over time, when you step out of that range of motion, your brain doesn't recognize it and you are, you're also losing your balance and agility. That makes sense. Reaction times, like all that stuff. And so there's so much at play moved. You gotta move. People just keep moving. just keep moving within safety, of course, but. I had injured my shoulder a few years ago, and it's still, every once in a while an apparent hitch that happens where that, that shoulder, I would say is like 95%. I hardly ever bothers me ever anymore. But if I'm doing a very rapid overhead movement, like a, a jerk, a tipping pullup or a jerk, like it can be in either direction up or pulling. If it's really fast, it's like my brain's like, wait, okay. And then, and it's so,

Tali: 25:32

and then it's a press out

Cody: 25:34

Yeah. And it's a press out. And it's so frustrating because I, I can focus on it all I want as far as like punch, you know, and be, be snappy and get that movement. And I'm telling my body to do the right thing. And there's like a subconscious, there's a subconscious pause there to try to protect that shoulder, which is no longer injured. I've seen you

Tali: 25:53

push through it though. Yeah. Like, just that last time we did jerks, I had mentioned that to you and you're able to correct it. Mm-hmm. but maybe by default you're still protecting it.

Cody: 26:03

Yeah. So end of tangent, but I think is valuable information for anybody, because even if you're not a fitness type person or working out consistently or whatever, just remember that a lot of the things we associate with old age or an injury that turns into a chronic issue,

Tali: 26:20

they're not like death sentences. They're not, it's not inevitable. No, it's not.

Cody: 26:23

Doesn't have to be range of motion and healing can happen, but you have to move. That's the thing is you can't just give in to it. Yeah. So end of rant.

Tali: 26:31

Well, it doesn't have to be end of rant because I actually have something anecdotal to that neurological element that you were talking about, and this is, you know, outside of the gym experience where I know I brought this up in another podcast episode, but I had the really cool opportunity of doing some nude modeling for a figure class figure drawing class, and I. Had always wanted to do this, but you never know that. Like what's gonna happen when you're in a room full of people and you have to get naked. Mm-hmm. I would have this kind of worry every now and then. Like what if I freeze? Like what if I just decide in the moment like, nope, nope. Can't do it. Sorry, You never know. You never know when like your adrenaline's really high and what's gonna happen. So I learned this technique from my mom. I'm sure you know about it, but power posing. Do you know about that? power posing power posing? I don't know. Yes. I don't exactly know if that's the right terminology cuz I haven't thought about it in a long time, but I actually recruited it. And it's a technique that anytime you're going into maybe a challenging or tense or any kind of situation where you wanna feel like really within your power and you don't wanna like be small or fold or whatever it is you my chest, you actually take time to. Pose in ways that are powerful. So like, you know, big sizes and ranges of motion and like, yeah, like big chest, lots of power. I don't have a lot to draw upon, but I remember sitting in the car in the driver's seat and like trying to get as big as I could in the car. That's awesome. So that I would walk in feeling really confident. Mm-hmm. And that also played out in the modeling itself because I think it's easy to, you know, you're kind of responsible for the poses and they want them to be really dynamic. And this was a new experience for me, so I just had to kind of make shit up. You know, I did as much research as I could to get inspiration, but I also wanted to do my very best job. And so I really wanted to have big grand, really fun poses for them to draw. And you know, I had to. Practice them to do it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because I think it's easy when you're in that room to just kind of wanna shrink and like keep the movements small. And it's very different than posing in photography, for instance. Like you have to move in smaller adjustments as opposed to the drawing where it should be a totally different pose than what they did two minutes ago. Yeah. So I think that it seemed just kind of related in the moment to use that in moments of fear or you know, in, in unknown situations. Mm-hmm. it almost seemed like a similar practice.

Cody: 29:25

Yeah, absolutely. There's a five minute morning mindset routine that we have put on our YouTube channel, and it's a little bit of stretching, a little bit of pushups and squats, and it's meant to be done like. To wake you up in the morning. So as soon as possible after you wake up, ideally, if you can do this outside, because natural light is, I'll just refer you to the Huberman podcast and you can listen to that rant. It's it's long. But getting morning light is extremely beneficial for your hormones and getting a good night's sleep the next night. And a whole bunch of that's just a long list. So but at the end of this five minute morning routine, I say, or you say to lift your chin to ra. You know, look up and smile. And smile, And thank yourself for doing this five minutes in the morning of intentional movement and. it feels corny as shit. I'm not gonna lie. It feels, it feels corny to say it it feels super corny. But it's the same thing that your mom was talking about with the power poses is that there's, there's actually some pretty definitive research that our emotions follow actions as much as our actions follow emotions. Oh, yes. And the act of raising your chin and smiling literally is like a dopamine release where it helps you feel better. And it may be very subtle, but it's, it's, it's real.

Tali: 30:53

Well, I know we've talked about this before when it comes to a weightlifting meat, so if you've never seen a weightlifting meat, the way it works is that there is a single platform in front of the audience and there's one barbell and everyone is gonna use the same barbell. And it's just one lifter after the next, like a minute to two minutes between each one of them. And the weight just gets heavier and heavier. And, it's wild as a spectator to watch it and notice the difference in demeanor from one lifter to the next. And I wouldn't say that this is like any hard science or anything, but you can really tell by the way someone's gonna, the way that they're walking out on the platform, their posture, their I don't know what else to draw upon the expression on their face, whatever. Mm-hmm. that is tied to how the, the lift is gonna be executed. And I took that really seriously and not only came up with kind of a, like a ritual or routine in the way that I approached the bar. but I felt like that was gonna have a direct outcome in how I was gonna lift. So I really took that element of it really seriously. So I would smile, you know, I would, you know, try to be calm and upright and poised mm-hmm. And you know, when you see somebody like rushing to the bar or their head is down, you're like, oh, fuck Like, what are we about to see? And I think I think there's a lot about how your intentions or your preparation is going to play out in whatever you're attempting. And yeah. I'm not sure how we got onto that, but, oh. I guess it's a kind of an interesting segue to one of the points that I wrote down here. You know, what things feel like and what it looks like. And I was thinking about this in terms of self-consciousness, an area that I would say I'm an expert in and a lot of. Times, you know, as a young person, I remember being told by teachers or camp counselors, or my mom or whoever it was who was trying to like, push me into whatever I was resisting. You know, they'd say like, no one's gonna know like, that you're feeling this way. Like, what you're feeling is not necessarily evident to everybody else, or they're not gonna care, I think is what the word is. It's like everybody's dealing with their own shit. Like nobody cares about your anxiety. Mm-hmm. And it's not meant to be in like a, it's an insignificance by any means. But I think that that is something that people experience a lot where their internal world feels so difficult. Turbulent or whatever to where they think that it's like written all over their face to a point where they feel like they can't function well. The, because they're afraid people are gonna see it.

Cody: 33:42

Yeah. We're afraid of everyone judging us all the time and usually they're not even thinking about us. I think a great example is our drawing class again. Oh, yeah. Because it, yeah. I mean, it's hard to imagine a circumstance where you're not getting judged or criticized more than being in a circle of people staring at you, drawing you, and you're naked in front of a group of people.

Tali: 34:06

Right. And not just drawing. There was a point in that class, I think I told you, where I was just standing there naked and the teacher is like pointing to all these different things on my body and like talking about my body parts. Yeah. Which you would think someone who has had so much like challenge with their body image, like that would be a fucking nightmare. Yeah. But it wasn't, but context was everything. Yeah.

Cody: 34:27

Context is, but. Yeah, I think it's a great example of what you were just talking about though, is that when you're in the hot seat, when you're naked up there, you are obviously thinking, oh man, are people judging me? Like that's gonna come across your mind. But you and I also took the class and we were drawing mm-hmm. And you remember like, here we are looking at a naked woman in front of us. And you and I were worried about what the fuck we were drawing. Like,

Tali: 34:53

oh yeah, we were way more worried about us.

Cody: 34:55

Yeah, So it just kinda, it's true. It like really shines a light on that per point is like, you can't imagine a circumstance where people might feel more judged than getting naked in front of somebody else. And even in that circumstance, all the artists are thinking about how shitty their drawing is, or how bad their perspective is, and where's that shadow Uhhuh So even in that circumstance, we're all just sort of like internally criti critical. We're not judging the other person nearly as much as you think. Yeah.

Tali: 35:24

Yeah. That's a really good example, because it's so true. I did wanna mention the flip side to that though, where it's maybe an opportunity to extend more compassion towards people because a lot of times we don't know people's internal worlds and you know, I think this is easy to think about when you see especially bad behavior. You know, that kind of stuff comes out from hurt or anger or sadness or that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. And so I think it is a good reminder that just because you're not seeing someone's anxieties or challenges doesn't mean they're not there. And so it is an opportunity to be more compassionate in general to people. Yeah.

Cody: 36:10

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I guess this is a good segue to one of my notes, which is that self-criticism. I think we have a strange culture right now of division in almost everything. Mm-hmm. everything's politicized in in the US right now. It's kind of a madness. It's a mad world. Mad, mad world That was terrible.

Tali: 36:38

we were both there though. All those matters. The you just did it. You just did what you were just talking about. What Self critic you were just like giving yourself

Cody: 36:49

crap. No, I think our harmony was terrible. I think. Oh, that's an objective fact. That was terrible.

Tali: 36:55

okay. No. Okay.

Cody: 36:57

So what I'm saying though is that that inner. I think sometimes in some circles there's the, you know, Jocko Willin or I forget the other guy's name, but there's, there's a few people out there right now that are just about, like, their whole message is you gotta be disciplined, you know, you've gotta work on this disciplined muscle. Because the more you practice self-discipline, the more self-discipline you can be in. You know, it's like, it's really aggressive. And then there's the flip side to that, which is like, everyone should be made to feel good all the time, and except

Tali: 37:32

one is in favor of comfort and the other is discomfort. Yeah.

Cody: 37:35

But it's so extreme. It's like this divisive thing where there's like pushback against the all acceptance crowd by way overdoing it as far as like every minute of your day should be disciplined. You know, you should wake up at four 30 and you should, you know, and hit that list and all that. And. And I think that we can take a more rational look at our inner critic and realize that that tendency to be self-conscious or self-critical is very valuable. It's a very valuable voice. And I think sometimes we are constantly just trying to shut it down cuz it doesn't feel good. But, you know, speaking from my own experience, like I, I can look at a day and sometimes I overdo it. It's like, man, I didn't get shit done. It's like, well, yeah, but I did edit the podcast, which is a three hour job just to do that one thing. And so it feels like scratching that one thing off the list is insignificant, but it's like, I gotta give myself credit from doing that, that three hour hell yeah. Slog of like, of work. And it's tedious

Tali: 38:38

work. It's not nearly as fun as recording.

38:40

Yeah.

Cody: 38:40

It's, it's not, I love listening to us, but it's. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of details. I hope you guys are reading the show notes, because I worked my ass off on those. But I guess my point though is that it allows self-reflection reflection for improvement. Like, how would we ever improve if we never, if we didn't ever practice that self-critical voice or if we're always shutting it down and being like, I'm, I am enough. I deserve all the best things. You know, this kind of like light and fluffy self-acceptance thing that's being pushed to the, to extremes. Again, I'm talking about extremes. So some self-discipline, quote quotes or some ability to get yourself moving is really, really valuable. I don't want to be a hustle culture obsessive compulsive. getting up at four 30 when I don't need to type of person. I don't want, I don't wanna live my life like that. But I also think that the, but demonizing that critic or

Tali: 39:38

self-deprecating all

Cody: 39:40

the time. Oh yeah, yeah. But demonizing that inner critic, I think is also dangerous because if, if that self-critic thing is just a voice that's put on us because of societal expectations or you know, whatever it's preached at being, I think we are losing a valuable part of ourselves that can actually help us improve over time.

Tali: 39:59

Well, I think it's really important to ask where that voice is coming from. You know, we don't wanna take everyone's advice and what it's saying. Sure. You know, but you know, it is important to note if that is something that society is, you know, putting on your back, or if it's, you know, something that your parents said to you, or if it's something that comes from within. You know, I think that that is really important to assess in those situations. Oh, for sure.

Cody: 40:26

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and also, What it's saying, like I said, what it's saying. So if my inner critic is saying, well, you didn't do enough today. Pull out a piece of paper and list everything you did that day. And

Tali: 40:41

Yeah, you have to kind of fact

Cody: 40:42

check, right? Yeah. Yeah. So once in a while, I, I don't remember when I came up with this term, but I call it a toone list instead of a to-do list. I love it. And when I'm feeling like that, like, man, I feel like I'm working and I'm tired, but I'm not making any progress. And where I'm sometimes. It's valuable to write down a list of everything you did do, because sometimes you'll see that, oh, that was busy work. I could have just skipped that. You know, I'm wasting energy there. That's why I started the to done list is to try to find areas of improvement. But the funny side effect that happened out of it is sometimes I'd write a to done list and it's like, fuck, I did a lot of work today. Like, whoa, that's great. Like I didn't realize that I had been so productive because my inner critic was like overstating the fact. On the other hand,

Tali: 41:31

your inner critic is real harsh too.

Cody: 41:33

Yeah, it can be, but like I said, if you, or you said, if we fact check that sometimes that can be really revealing. It's like, yeah, you edited the podcast today. You were also on Instagram for three hours total. You know, like it was, it was intense. That's a really scary one to look into. Yeah, it was like in 10 minute increments, but still. you know, you're practicing this escapism. So sometimes that inner critic is helping us recognize in ourselves things that are unhealthy or that would benefit us to pay attention to. Oh yeah. You

Tali: 42:08

get to assign those values and that might change day to day. Like, you know, I've been feeling kind of like a, a log today and yesterday. And I was talking to my, my friend about it too, cuz she like, went on a hike today and I was like I didn't really, it wasn't physical very much and I didn't really get a chance to go outside, blah, blah, blah. That's, and she's like going all day. She's like, you probably needed that. Yeah. And I'm like, you're probably right, Yeah. You know, it's easy for me. Take myself off the hook or you know, be really freak. I used to tell my nutrition coach that I was like forgiving of myself to a fault. Mm-hmm. where that's what I'm talking about. Let myself off the hook all the time. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. But when I get it from somebody else, it's like, oh, okay, I'll listen now. Yeah. Like he might, he might be right now. Yeah.

Cody: 42:54

Well, I think that really relates to the theme of this episode is that sometimes you can't see what you need from inside the bottle. Like you can't read the label from inside the bottle. Mm-hmm. and having somebody else point out to you that, you know, you, you are constantly active, you do a lot during the week. Taking a couple days to lounge is not a bad thing. Like it takes maybe an outside perspective to show you that sometimes

Tali: 43:21

I feel a lot more forgiving of it than maybe I did a few years back. Mm-hmm. I feel like you and I have really created a lot more healthy. beliefs about balance. Mm-hmm. and, you know, we work really hard during the week and we're really exhausted Yeah. By the time the weekend comes around. And it's gonna be a while until our weekends are gonna be weekends, you know, we have a few maybe Yeah. Well, I mean, it's been a while. We've been having this conversation for a long time. So we, we work through the weekend on the ranch. We work through the weekend on our business and only recently did we put our foot down. We're like, we're gonna take one day to do nothing. Yeah. And we should not feel bad about that. Yeah. I actually just saw a friend of mine, she was an old teammate of mine. She posted about that today. She's like, why do I feel so anxious about what I've gotten done when I have implemented a do nothing day every single week? Mm-hmm. like that is the intention. Mm-hmm. It's really hard to let go of that though. Our, our attachment or our value on productivity is really. out of whack.

Cody: 44:25

It can be in general, I'd say it can be, and I know we keep bringing this up over and over and over again in our podcast. What's that? But we're reading through this book extremely slowly cuz we'll read like two pages and then,

Tali: 44:36

well we haven't touched the book in like two weeks.

Cody: 44:38

Yep. Well, it's not been that long, but a week and a half. My point is that we read two pages about every four days, like on a, if we were to average it out. So it's very slow, but essentialism really points to what you're talking about because one of the things, and I don't know if it was in that book or just something related, is that when you take time off in order to feel guilt free, that's a, that's actually a good litmus test for what you should be doing. So if we take it back to Essentialism, we can say, okay, what three things or what two things, or what one thing can I do this week that'll allow me to relax on Sunday without feeling like shit about myself? If I did one thing this week that would help me. To feel good when I go on this vacation and not be stressed out. What would that one thing be? Just one Well, like I said, it could be three or whatever, because we're talking about a week long. Mm-hmm. We also have talked about the fact that there's no such word as priorities, right? Because priority means before everything else prior. But I think it's a good way to take your big to-do list or your feelings of, oh, I gotta get this done and this done and this done and this done and this done. It's like, well, do you really like what, what is realistic and what is, what would get you to the point where you're off the hook and you can take a day off and feel good about it?

Tali: 46:01

And that's really hard to assess yourself. You and I have a business coach for that reason. Exactly. Yeah. You know, there have been a lot of things that are easy to get hung up about and want to ship only once it's perfect and mm-hmm. done and whatever. And it's really helpful to have somebody just slash that all.

Cody: 46:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put together a new website for us at howtofittogether.com. Yeah.

Tali: 46:25

Well, and it's also like half the stuff that used to be on it too. Yeah. Which is great. The

Cody: 46:30

idea was to make it very simple concise. Yeah. And an essentialist website, I'm all over that. Yeah. And it, it's okay as it is, but it took me a while, like it took for me, it's like I'm making a very simple website. This isn't complicated. This should be something Mike should have done in an afternoon. Took me a couple weeks. And so I was kind of feeling like, man, I, I feel so inefficient at that. And then when I submitted the link to our business coaches to, to review it for us, the response was, wow, you are on it. I'm like, I am Yeah. So, yeah, it's all, we've been getting great feedback. Those perspectives are valuable from the third party for sure. Yeah.

Tali: 47:10

Yeah. I'm trying to think if there are like any action steps or any kind of major takeaways to

Cody: 47:17

Well, I think the to done list is a good thing. Yeah. As far as what we were just talking about. But as a broader concept, not to to ring our own bell or anything, but I mean, I think coaching is super valuable If you have a coach or mentor, a teacher, whatever you wanna call'em, that can help give you an outside perspective. I is so valuable for being able to try to match up that mismatch of how it feels versus how it looks. How did that lift feel versus how it looked how am I performing versus how I feel about how I'm performing. how am I communicating versus how I feel like I'm communicating? Like the other day with the newsletter that came out, I was like, man, this thing is way too wordy. I need to cut this down. It's like too long. People are gonna unsubscribe because it's just too much, too much. And you read it and you're like, I love your writing. This is so good. I'm like, what?

Tali: 48:13

So, so theme of today is like, you're always just wrong. your perception is just wrong.

Cody: 48:19

Our perception often is wrong. So I guess my point is, is that we can take a, not consensus, but we can take data from different areas. You can take data from yourself, how you feel, your internal voice and your coach, mentor peers, et cetera. And then you can make some rational decisions on what all that means.

Tali: 48:40

I just wanna point out what you were saying just a second ago about how our perception is often wrong. And we've talked about this in a very different sense, but we've. We've pointed to the idea that it's a mistake to think that everybody is experiencing or interpreting things the same way that you are. Mm-hmm. And that's why like defining terms is really important. Mm-hmm. that's why stating your intentions is really important. It's easy, you know, you and I were in a recent situation where we called somebody out for not being able to read their mind mm-hmm. you know, like you up in your own world. Like what makes you think that I would understand any of that. Mm-hmm. you know, if you're not telling me anything, it really puts a responsibility or an emphasis on the importance of communication. And I think that that's what is really valuable about a coach is like there is incoming and outcoming information that you actually get to interact with. It's not happening in a vacuum. Mm-hmm. And I feel like that's a, a mistake we see a lot. even in the fitness world, like I think about all the people in a global gym who are in their own worlds doing their own things, headphones on and doing like really whack shit like whack shit that you see on Instagram. I love it so much. People at like, I think it's like Crunch Fitness or Planet Fitness or something very much misusing the equipment. Yeah. And it's hilarious. Or people who are just not lifting with good form, like you are at the risk of, you know, limiting your your progress or your potential or really hurting yourself when you don't open up to feedback. And I think that that's what's interesting about this topic too, is what it feels like versus what it looks like. It's kind of like two different vantage points of awareness. Mm-hmm. And you know, like I said, I have a trained eye. I can look at my own lifts and make assessments, but it also does invite. other people into that world too, if you want it. Mm-hmm. But I think to just kind of go about life with any kind of assessment, like you said, with injuries in fascia and how you will just lose your body will lose that awareness for what it needs to rebound or catch itself or whatever. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We have to kind of put, give ourselves like some support systems, I guess. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And tools of assessment.

Cody: 51:10

Assessment, which is another episode that we've done and it's very, very valuable.

Tali: 51:15

I talk about assessment I think almost in every single episode. Yeah. Yeah. I think self-assessment is major. I'm in life. I'm constant doing

Cody: 51:22

in general. Yeah. I'm constantly doing that for myself. Anytime, anytime I'm feeling off lost directionless or whatever, like try to assess what you're doing instead of just living in that frustrated. thing, or, or feeling like it's gonna pass or waiting for it to pass, or just continuing to do what you do. Like stopping and assessing is so huge. It's so valuable for us. You and I have pivoted more times than I can begin to imagine as far as our whole lives, like you and I, our, our jobs are our careers outside the job. Just like the big picture, our physical training and how we approach it,

Tali: 52:01

that pivots the most. we've pivoted a lot, probably all my fault.

Cody: 52:05

We've pivoted it. We've pivoted the structure of our relationship couple times. Yeah. We've obviously where we mo we live, like the environment that we live in it's crazy. I mean, we, but that constant pivot. Sometimes it's just like, well, I'm sick of this, or we need to change this, or whatever. And it's a little bit spontaneous. You and I enjoy spontaneity, but sometimes it's out of a, an assessment like journaling and things like that, that, yeah. Is this

Tali: 52:33

working still

Cody: 52:34

or Yeah. That reveal like, you know, I'm not getting what I thought I was gonna get out of this situation, so what do we need to do to change it?

Tali: 52:42

I think that agility in life is one of the most important skills that you can learn because life is going to take you in multiple directions. Mm-hmm. whether you want it to or not. And there's so much out of our hands, and I think that ability to change direction or to make the next best step, even if it wasn't according to. That kind of fluidity, I think is what allows you and I not only to feel creative, but for us to minimize friction in our lives. And that was something that you and I talked about even before we started dating as something that was really important. And that was an idea that I learned from you. Mm-hmm. and I didn't really understand it. But it also requires that assessment, feedback. Yeah. Communication. Like none of that would be able to happen if you and I couldn't communicate well with each other. Yeah, that's true. Or feel free of judgment from one another. Yeah. Yeah.

Cody: 53:36

Yeah. And it's a perishable skill. You know, I've, I've used that term before that, you know, if you use it or lose it, it's just like range of motion of a joint. Mm-hmm. if you don't practice agility and your ability to shift focus or. Change your mind about things. If you don't practice that on a regular basis, that's what gets you to be like an old curmudgeony person that no one can ever agree with on anything, because you're like stuck in your ways and,

Tali: 54:07

and like, not just stuck in your ways, but like out of touch. Out of touch. Yeah. Like you have like put that old shoe on so many times that you're like fly stoning out of it. Like you've busted out of it at that point. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. And it doesn't even serve you anymore. Yeah.

Cody: 54:24

So once again, that's, it's just like something we associate with age or culture, but it's a skill you can, you can teach yourself to be more versatile and more agile in your life, in the way you think and the way you act and the things that you do. But you have to stay on it. You know? You can't just practice it in your youth and then settle down and. Think that you still have the ability to do that.

Tali: 54:51

So do you think the, what it feels like versus what it looks like, you know, we've, we've said how that seems to be kind of a mystifying phenomenon that just exists. You know, if you think about just like with the lifting and the way it feels and the way it looks on the outside mm-hmm. is that just something to like be aware of and like just get comfortable with that idea, that kind of disconnect or dissonance between the two? Mm-hmm. or is there like an aim to make those match more? I don't know. I'm curious, like what do you do with that?

Cody: 55:26

For me, there's an instinct to try to make it match more, but that's just because I want to be aware of reality Like that's a philosophy. Objectivism is a philosophy that I went down the rabbit hole of 15 years ago or more, and it's the idea that there is an objective reality, but we only have. our unique perspective in this big world of objective reality. And so we can't see a hundred percent truth all the time. Right. But we can work to get closer and closer to it. And a lot of the things that we've already talked about are tools for doing that. You talked about like defining terms in a conversation, for instance. Mm-hmm. that helps both people come together in their perspective and get somewhere closer to hopefully some objective truth or reality versus just a subjective point of view of that. And so I have an instinct or desire to always try to close that gap a little bit. And I feel like I'm training my brain to be better I mean, I'm gonna put a value judgment on it to be better if I can, if my perception is closer to reality. And I think you and I instinctively do that a lot because again, relating back to the gym, a lot of times you, I it's very, it's almost every lift. Like we'll lift and then we'll look at the other person and be like, how did that look It's like, you know how it felt, you just did it, but you still want to ask like, well, how did that look? Or like, I had you, you know, look at my squats the other day cuz I felt like I was shifting my weight really extremely to one side and experiencing some pain. And then you're like, that's not that bad. you, you put that

Tali: 57:11

up from behind. Well, even reflecting on this kind of back tweak that I have, I was like, did I do something wrong yesterday? You know, I always jumped to like, oh, I must have been doing something stupid if I've been, you know, rewarded with a back tweak. Mm-hmm. It's really easy to be hard on myself in that arena. It's a very. Odd dynamic that I have in the gym because I know that I move really well.

Cody: 57:37

You do. I know that you move really, really well. Love watching you move. Thank you. You know, you're in your thirties now. Okay. Which means you could have just slept wrong.

Tali: 57:48

Good point. You know what's so funny is I put out that meme of like the solitaire cards from like, really, like Windows 98 or maybe even earlier than that. Yeah. And it was a meme that like had the different options that you could choose and it had the palm tree and the castle and the fish and the whatever else, and it was like, If you know what these are, like your back hurts. And I feel like that was such karmic shit. Like I put that out I think on like Thursday or Friday. You're like, haha, I know. And now I've got a back tweak that like every time I sneeze is so fucking painful.

Cody: 58:22

Yeah, I was worried about you. You're not a chronic sneezer, like a multiple sneezer usually. So I was a little worried about you this morning.

Tali: 58:28

I woke up feeling kind of weird this morning. Seven sneezes in a row. Yeah. I felt kind of like allergic to something this morning. Cats? No. Cats. No, I don't think he's gone. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I love about this podcast so much is that it really feeds my interest in personal truths. And I, I don't, I use, I usually use the term universal truths, but I know that that can't. really ever be the case because of perception. Mm-hmm. And so I, I'm just kind of wondering about this dynamic. Is that just something in life that we just get to kind of experience and play with and just try to have a good attitude about it? You know, for instance someone I know their partner died today, and I don't know if you were listening to the conversation, but immediately my mom's response was, well, that doesn't have to be a sad thing, you know, and I know that she really trains herself. She's been really working on kind of changing the narrative around death and the fear around it and the sterile nature of it and, you know, everybody being afraid and walking on eggshells around each other and things like that. Mm-hmm. and. it's, it's just kind of one of those things kind of like this where I'm just like, well, do I just have a choice that I can decide how to engage with it differently? You know, like whether it's assigning a different value to it, like this is not inherently good or bad, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's why I was wondering like, well, is there something we can do with this? Like, is matching what it feels like and what it looks like really matter? Because when I think about that example that I brought up about like anxiety for instance, like are we encouraging then for people to outwardly express that anxiety or do we wanna continue to encourage that? What could be considered like a facade on the outside or just an attempt to gain control over it?

Cody: 1:00:39

I think you can do a little bit of both.

Tali: 1:00:41

Because I would say that the gaining of control of it is kind of training you out of it. Yeah. That would be my hope at least.

Cody: 1:00:47

Yeah, I think you can do both. One thing I've learned to do. Better in, after about the age of 40 or so is there's kind of a funny cliche that like the older you get, the less fucks you have to give. You know, and I did have kind of like a turning point when I was about 42 in the, I'm just gonna be really? Isn't that when I met you? Yeah. Really honest and vulnerable with everyone in my life. And then they can just take it or leave it and I'm, that doesn't mean I'm gonna try to be an asshole. And people who put up with me are the ones who stick. That's not the point. The point is that I'm gonna be really, really me and not try to be a people pleaser so that the relationships that I do have are really valuable because they really know me.

Tali: 1:01:30

How would you say you've done with that?

Cody: 1:01:32

Well, like I said, I'm better. I'm not, I'm not saying I'm perfect, but to getting to your point as far as the anxiety thing, is that because I've made that decision, I've come to this thing where like I'll go into a position. Of nervousness or anxiety, and I'll just tell the person I'm with, like, I am super nervous right now. Mm-hmm. you know, like, I just letting you know, like I'm kind of freaking out inside. But I also can try to mitigate it by like posturing and smiling and being open to communication and that kind of thing, rather than like tightening up,

Tali: 1:02:08

you know? Yeah. Not giving into it. Yeah. So it's totally okay to have fear and it's okay to have anxiety. I think it's only problematic when you let it rule your life.

Cody: 1:02:16

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think that's a valuable rabbit hole to go down in this whole concept of like how it feels versus how it looks, is that you can control oftentimes how things feel by changing how it looks like, how you move, how you react, how you, you, the actions that you take can change the way you feel about something. And over time you can Really take hold of that. I was reading in Atomic Habits this morning. Is that James Clear, I think is the author. I'm reading like five books at once, so I'm getting authors mixed up. He talks about breaking bad habits by changing your association with them and there is a book that he recommended in that book, which I don't remember.

Tali: 1:03:06

That was Sounds like Inception,

Cody: 1:03:07

Yeah. That was about quitting smoking. Okay. And the whole book apparently about changing, like teaching people to quit smoking is to change your mindset around smoking. And it was really funny cuz it was sort of like, you don't. You tell yourself you want a cigarette, but you don't want a cigarette, you're trying to quit smoking, you don't want the cigarette.

Tali: 1:03:29

And that's that primitive and advanced mind stuff coming up that I wrote down.

Cody: 1:03:33

Yeah. And but it was really cool because he got to a point in Atomic Habits where he's teaching you strategy for being able to change your mindset around habits. And like for instance, and you and I have actually talked about this on a previous episode of this podcast, which is. I have to go to the gym, I get to, I get to go to the gym. Mm-hmm. and that little shift of mindset. And he was talking about doing that for everything you have to do in the day. It's like, I get to run some errands today. I get to edit this podcast today. I get to because that he, he's like, you can find your brain can find evidence to support either perspective. Yes. You, you can find evidence to support the fact that you have to do this thing and it's a slog. And you can also find evidence for y it's a privilege to have the ability to do this thing that other people might not be able to do. Mm-hmm. Or you're doing this job that, or career that you've chosen, you know, that kind of thing. So it's kinda like finding gratitude in things that may seem unpleasant. And on the flip side of that, he was talking about like eating sugar or something. And you can actually change your mindset around habits if you're like chronically sugar seeking or snacking or something in that like, This might taste good, but I know it's gonna make me feel like garbage. And that's something that I've done. I didn't really know, I didn't define it as a tool like he does in this chapter of Atomic Habits, but you can really train yourself to want to avoid. Like, I've, I don't even remember the last time I had a Pepsi or Coke or soda. Like I just so rare. And

Tali: 1:05:10

I, we almost had the opportunity this weekend. Yeah. And

Cody: 1:05:13

I was, I, I mean, I used to be like a two liter habit, a day soda drinker.

Tali: 1:05:20

And you have no cavities. Are you

Cody: 1:05:22

shitting me? Well, I did back then. I ha you know, I don't now. Oh. But okay. But the thing that got me out of that was just like, I know if I, well, what got me out of it is I tried like a paleo type diet for a while and no sugar. Everything is just whole foods and such,

Tali: 1:05:37

I have to say. And then the only time I'd really be okay with like a restrictive diet or something that has like blacklisted items is if. Most of your life is like processed food, because normally I'm not in favor of like, restrictive diets at all. Yeah, yeah. But I would say if like you really need to change what your idea of food is, then maybe it's important if it has

Cody: 1:05:58

a food label on it, it's not food Like real food doesn't come with a label. You just, you can see a stock of asparagus and you know, oh, this is a hundred percent asparagus. I don't need a label to tell me. So but anyway, back to my mindset issue is like, I have trained myself now to where I, when I see an indulgent food, it's like, I know that's gonna make me tired in two hours and I don't wanna be tired in two hours, therefore I don't want that piece of pie. But if I can look at that piece of pie and be like, I think if I eat half of that and we're sure to get some protein and some exercise in right after this, I'll probably feel okay and then I can indulge in it and. But the thing is, is I've brought that awareness to my mind where it's not like I want the sugar, I want the treat. This is gonna, this is gonna taste great. This is gonna be good. It's gonna, it's all good. Right? But I'm able to, as a course of habit, just know that I'm gonna feel a certain way when I eat the certain food.

Tali: 1:06:56

You've created new associations with it.

Cody: 1:06:58

It, exactly. And that's the whole point of the tangent that I'm trying, I'm trying to go on, is that you can change your both for good habits and bad habits. Is that you can reframe in your mind, oh, it's not hard to quit smoking because I don't wanna smoke. I don't want emphysema. I don't want to be panting all the time. I don't wanna stink. I don't like, you know, like you can,

Tali: 1:07:19

but I yourself also wanna look cool. I hate to say it. I still think cigarette smoking looks so cool.

Cody: 1:07:26

It's funny because I was really repulsed by it for a long time. And then something happened. I don't know why I started to get really attracted to the rebellious. Girl thing. And so now I see a chick smoking and I'm like, oh, that's kind of hot. I dunno, but I don't wanna be a chronic smoker either. So. Yeah. But anyway, I think it's a good takeaway to think about managing your feelings and how those help you make decisions by changing your association in certain settings or certain activities or whatever. Because you can manage your feel, you're feeling, you're not at the mercy of your feelings. Like you can change the way you feel about things.

Tali: 1:08:03

Yes. You absolutely can. And it's really, really, really freeing when you learn that. Mm-hmm. You know, it doesn't mean like they're all gonna be able to change just as easily from one to the next, but we do have choices around that. Mm-hmm.

Cody: 1:08:19

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You feeling like wrapping up? Sure. We've got some bumpers to record. Yes, we do. Good. Yeah. Well, we we'll see you all next week. Thanks for listening. We really, or watching Appreciate it or watching now. Yeah. And we'll see you in a week. I love you. I love you too.

Tali: 1:08:43

This episode was produced by Tali Zari and Cody Limbaugh. Check out our writing, coaching services and home studying adventures at live all your life.com. For show notes, resources mentioned, or to submit a question or contribution, click on the podcast tab.