JourneyTalks Podcast
Your favorite podcast to reconnect with gratitude and inspiration.
JourneyTalks Podcast
Journey Talks Podcast with Rosarito: Harmonizing Motherhood, Academia, and the Melody of Gratitude
When the dance of parenting and academia leads to an extraordinary symphony, it's a narrative that demands to be shared. Join us as we welcome the indomitable Rosarito, a beacon of inspiration, navigating the intricacies of motherhood and the academic pursuit of a PhD in Hispanic Studies. Her experiences, rooted in the rich cultural soil of Puerto Rico and blooming in Houston, Texas, intertwine with mine in a conversation that celebrates our evolving paths and the gratitude that fuels our journeys.
There's a profound beauty in the realization that life's most challenging moments often cultivate the deepest sense of appreciation. Through candid dialogues on family, privilege, and the individual journeys we undertake, this episode traverses the landscapes of identity, responsibility, and the silent voices that reside within each of us. It's a dialogue that not only highlights the courage in storytelling but also the power that comes from listening – to our children, our peers, and the often-unheard stories that shape our collective existence. This episode is an ode to the richness of our shared humanity and the profound connections that bind us, despite life's multifaceted challenges.
Host: @journeytalkspodcast
Guest: @r.rosarito
The Journey Talks podcast, your favorite podcast to reconnect with gratitude and inspiration, hosted by Jorge Gonzales. Hello and welcome to Journey Talks podcast, your favorite podcast to reconnect with gratitude and inspiration. My name is Jorge Sallago Gonzales and I am your host. I am convinced that behind every gratitude, there's a powerful story waiting to be told, and this podcast is here to create a space to share these stories and, more importantly, as we share these stories, remember the one thing that connects us, and that is our shared human experience.
Speaker 1:Our guest today is a fabulous friend of mine. We've known each other, I want to say, since middle school and it's interesting. It's not that we spent a whole lot of time together when we were young, but our path in many ways worked sort of like parallel, and I'm hoping that there's an opportunity to unpack what that means. My guest today is a professor. She is a teatrera, she's an educator, she's a phenomenal singer, she's a performer. She is. This person is incredible. She has so many, many different talents Currently and she lives in Houston, texas, and, as I mentioned, she's a professor and works with young folks. Her heart, I want to say, is in the arts, but I also would venture to say that her heart is also present in this ongoing unfolding of the human experience, and this is one of the reasons why I really wanted to have my friend, the one and only Rosarito, with us. Rosarito, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great, and thank you so much, jorge, for this invitation. I've been looking forward to it ever since we talked about the possibility of getting together and joining forces and have a conversation about gratitude. I've been really, really looking forward to this opportunity, so thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Good. So I mentioned a few things about you, but I think you should be the one that impacts a little bit of what you do, who you are, what's going on with you lately. So I'm all ears.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you introduced me really well. I've been living in Houston for the past 16 years. I've been an educator, I work at Texas Southern University, which is an HBCU of historically black university here in town, and I have been in the theater program ever since I started working. So it's been an interesting journey for me. Coming from Puerto Rico, the educational system, I did my undergraduate degree at University of Puerto Rico and then I moved to Georgia and did my master's at Savannah College of Art and Design and now I decided to pursue my PhD degree. So I am in the Hispanic Studies program at University of Houston, one of the few in the nation that focuses on the Hispanic history, literature, linguistics. So, halfway there, I just completed my third semester. So it's been a very, very fulfilling process but very draining and it's just. You know it's hard, it's difficult, but I'm focused on finishing my degree, I'm laser focused on it, which affects other areas in my life, but you know that's the journey that I decided to embark on, so I'm all in.
Speaker 1:Good, you're also a mother of two, right.
Speaker 2:I am a mother of two Annie she just turned 10 on Wednesday, last Wednesday and Havi is about to be 12. So I have my hands full with them. They're really good kids, you know. They get along pretty well. He is in middle school now. She's still in elementary, so that was a learning curve for all three of us. He writes his bike to school now, so it's been an interesting to let go of having all of the control and knowing exactly what's going to happen at what time and all of this. But he's been good. You know he's been very responsible at that new stage in life.
Speaker 1:Right, right, which these are milestones, right? I mean, I remember when I was a middle schooler and I started to venture myself out there. You know, when your parents start to, as you mentioned, start to release the rings a little bit and you start to face life on your own, certain experiences that, slowly but steady, they ship you in. Who you are, rosarito, I am very curious. I would love to hear more about, very briefly before we start. Why a PhD in Hispanic studies? I mean, I know we both are Hispanic Latinos, we live in the United States. This is part of our shared experience too. But what do you want to be able to do once you're done with your PhD program?
Speaker 2:So it's interesting because, you know, speaking of being grateful for the people who come to your life, I, you know being in an academic setting. Most of my colleagues have completed, you know, that PhD stage and the arts, an MFA, which is what I have. It's a terminal degree, so you can, you know, get jobs in higher education, but as a personal goal, I've always wanted to. I knew, you know, that I wanted to complete this final step, so to speak, and so, but I didn't know where, I didn't know when, you know, and I had my kids were little and but I always had that, you know, on the back of mind. And then, two years ago, I just decided to seriously apply, you know, and I thought, well, maybe education, you know something related to that that I, you know. But I can structure my own program, something, you know, just kind of brainstorming. And I contacted the Graduate Studies Director at University of Texas in Austin, because they have a PhD program in theater, and you know we went back and forth via email and I asked if I had to relocate, because that was my biggest concern, and she said, yes, that I have to, because they expect you to teach, you know, they expect you to be a faculty member while you pursue your degree. And she said but you have, you already have a tenure at the university where you work at. The students who come to our program want what you already have and that, you know. That started kind of sparked an interest in me and that's right. And she said you can just do a PhD in whatever you want to do it, you know, just go for whatever program you like.
Speaker 2:And then that's when I was like I relaxed a little bit in terms of location or, you know, having to relocate and how. I saw that as an impossibility. And then so I started looking for programs in my area Rice University, university of Houston, university of St Thomas, I had the option, my own university and then I stumbled upon Hispanic's program at U of H and it really sparked my interest and it's like I said, beginning is one of the few programs that in the nation that focuses on Hispanic journey and history, linguistic etc. And so I applied and they accepted me and I've been going through, you know, very hard process of adjusting to, you know, just to having another responsibility added to my regular routine. But I, ever since I started, my professors knew of my background and you know my experience and they know that that's what I wanted. They knew that that's what I wanted to continue to study dramatic literature, anything that has to do with young adult or children's literature. It's really my main focus.
Speaker 2:So almost every research that I've done, paper that I've written, has to do with either colorism, racial issues within the Hispanic community, you know, children's adaptations of children's stories or books for the state I follow a friend of mine. He's a playwright from Houston, lives in Milwaukee, his name is Alvaro Sarrios and he dedicates his life, really it's building a career adapting stories for the stage, and that, to me, is so interesting and I feel like that is a source of inspiration for me, you know, as it is for him. So I want to do something like that. You know that's what I want to pursue professionally and I have the opportunity to produce children's theater while living in Houston not as much as I would like. So that's really what I want to continue building A workshop really for actors, for technicians in Houston and just perform for children.
Speaker 2:Because the Hispanic community in Houston is so large, you know, there's a very large percentage of Hispanic Latino residents, so there's an audience for our stories, you know for stories about our lives and our countries of origin, et cetera. It's been a really wonderful journey and I found a program where I feel comfortable and challenged. I feel like you know where I belong. I feel like I belong.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy to hear that, rosarito. Seriously, I mean the journey of figuring out who we are and how we can best use our skills and our gifts. It's an ongoing journey, right, and to land at something that you feel like you can really feel at home, something that you know that you can give back to the community, is something very special. It sounds like you landed at there, you know, and that's exciting. Yeah, yeah, it's been go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I said I'm having a good time. I cry sometimes, but I enjoy it a bit.
Speaker 1:Well, blood, sweat and tears, right, I mean pursuing a PhD. It's no joke. It's a long journey, it's hard, it's hard work, but, you know, I think it's fascinating how the power of storytelling is so present in what you're doing precisely. You know, theater plus, using that platform to raise awareness, to share stories that many times go unnoticed and to impact them and, hopefully, for people to see themselves and to find themselves identified in those stories. Right which I think is a phenomenon that we are experiencing in our nation right now this opportunity for voices that were unheard or in the backburn. Now they're at the forefront. Now we have I don't want to say necessarily, I don't think the expression is the tools, but I think we've always had the tools. I think people are paying attention and I think, finally, we're being more vocal and we feel like this is something that needs to be said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that time and time again, it's been proven that you know Hispanic stories, black stories, asian stories are important and profitable because that's the one thing you know in terms of. You know cinema, you know thinking about movies. Theater is different in terms of finances, but that's you know. It's a good thing. You know something like having the first black Christine in the Phantom of the Opera on Broadway, for example. That just happened, it just happened this past summer and that is huge, you know, and I know it causes all sorts of controversy.
Speaker 2:You know, if you think about the Woodrow Mermaid being played by a black actress and how people are just losing their minds over that, you know it really tells where the issue lies and how, as a society, we can start or we can pinpoint those areas and highlight those issues with something as simple as asking a black girl in a white role, so to speak, because the animated character is a white mermaid, you know.
Speaker 2:But it's an interesting conversation to have and I think that the important thing, whether you like it or not, it's not about liking, but you understand the importance right, because representation matters and it is important to make those changes and to challenge the status quo. It is important. So, yeah, it's not about liking, right? I, one of my classes this semester, our professor, it was a creative writing class and we had to give our you know our opinion but really are sort of like an analysis, right, and the professor, off the bat, she goes I don't care if you liked it or not, remember, it's not about liking, it doesn't matter if you did, it doesn't matter if you didn't. What do you think and why? You know what works and what doesn't work. I think it's important to look at all of those things that we have to kind of question.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, we all have work to do. You know, we all have work to do and we have to pay attention to it and we have to be open to the area, our own areas, of growth. Well, this is exciting. Well, you know, I mean, I think this is a perfect segue to now then talk about gratitude, because I mean, on the undertone of what I've heard so far, there's gratitude there as well. You know, you're finally out of place in your life, you're pursuing something that you, that has been a huge longing for you, and so I like to start asking questions. Is that okay? Yes, are you ready? Yes, I'm ready, all right. So the first question that I have for you is what is gratitude for you and what is your relationship with it?
Speaker 2:Well, I've always I think I've always been grateful. Throughout life I think I've had, I've been surrounded by people who love me and who have shown that love and that care. I don't think I've always understood how important that was. You know, having a family close by, you know, my aunts, my mother, my grandmother, my sister. So for me it's just understanding that we don't, we don't deserve necessarily all of the blessings that we have, but we have to be grateful that we have them.
Speaker 2:You know, and not everybody can say that, you know, can say that they've had a strong family or that have received love growing up. And I have that you know. I can categorically say that. And it doesn't. It doesn't mean that, you know, life is perfect, but I've lived a pretty guarded life and, especially thanks to my mother, I had, you know, great education.
Speaker 2:I always had food on the table, clothes to wear I don't know what it is not having food at home, for example.
Speaker 2:You know, when I hear stories of families that have put food insecurity, which is really big in our city, you know, and around Texas and around the nation, but it's in our city, is it's an epidemic really, and then I start thinking and I just, I don't have that experience. You know my fridge was always full. You know my table always had food. My mom was not a great cook, but she always cooked, you know. So I'm just, I think that my upbringing has allows me to say, you know, that I, I am just grateful for the blessings that I've received and you know, and the experiences that I have lived, you know, being able to travel, being able to, I don't know to study what I wanted to study, to not have to work while I was going to college, you know those little things that that really add up and and are really a benefit to us as human beings. And you know, if you compare yourself to others, to others' experiences, you see yourself and you say, wow, you know, thank you, thank you life, thank you mom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, it's. You know, I hear, I hear you're talking and I my wife, is a is her former life she was a family therapist, and so one of the things and in my education and theology, I there's this is no, this is not a new term, but I think what I hear you're saying is the importance of protective factors. Right, how these protective factors allow human being to grow and and to their best potential. Right, and so how these, once you have these protective factors in place, the individual can meet certain benchmarks or explore these creative ideas, connect with his or her intuition in such a way that that then you could pursue, you can allow yourself to, to explore what that would look like.
Speaker 1:And I also hear, and it's important to recognize, that there's an element and a level of privilege. Right, and and I think that's very interesting, especially for you and me right, because we are, the capacity that we came to the United States is a result of a privilege that we have when you compare it to other Hispanic Latinos that do not have that ability. And so it's important, it's important to recognize your place, it's important to recognize what you've been given and it's important to recognize the power that that gives you and how? How do you right? Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, and I had no idea. And because you know, you hear about immigration, you hear about struggles and you know the tension centers and and and these. You know just so many schools of thought and and. Then you lived and then you get the opportunity, like, like I have to live in a city and to surround myself with friends, family that you know, that have had issues with documentation, and every time that issue comes up, I just say you know the people that I know, the people that I know are here, are here to work, are here to make this, you know, the United States, a better place. You know, I know that there's so many things. You know good, bad things that happen. Like I said at the beginning, you know, nothing is ever perfect, but this journey that that immigrants from different countries embark, it's just, it's really admirable because most of them are really, you know, escaping from terrible situations.
Speaker 2:And, like you said, in our, in our, in our particular situation, I decided to leave to go to school and I had no issues. I didn't have to do all this paperwork or wait in line and, you know, get a visa or a green card, nothing like that. You know that is a big problem and I know, politically that's a that's a big issue and there's, you know, so many opinions about it. But I agree, you know, I feel very privileged. It doesn't mean that there aren't issues that come with that privilege because we're still Hispanic, we, I still in many ways feel like an immigrant, and actually it's.
Speaker 2:It's funny because I hadn't hadn't thought of myself as an immigrant writer and it all comes to taking a class on Hispanic, caribbean writers, women writers so we read stories from Dominican Republic, cuba and Puerto Rico, from women who are exiles or immigrants, are native writers. So you know, they write from the United States about their country's award, and I had never seen myself as that, in that category. You know, in my mind, in my head, I'm freaking, you know I'm, and so. So I had never really seen myself as an immigrant in that way. But after, and of course, because I'm producing work and and you know I'm like, okay, so I fit into this category of women writers, you know are writing from the United States about the country's origin and you know, outside of the island I've been since 2004. So almost 20 years, you know. But you know it's it's, it's a, it's a mind game. It's interesting.
Speaker 1:It is a mind game. It is a mind game and it's you know what it's very humbling. Now that you touch on it, I think it's. I would love to share this with you.
Speaker 1:When I moved from Puerto Rico to the United States yes, I was pursuing my, my degree in theology and all of that, but I was confronted with a really tough troop. I I met people that were the same age as I was, you know, 23, 24,. Their circumstances and how they got to this country were super different, not precisely because they did it, but but their parents did, and the pursuit of better opportunities for them, and that was a reality check for me. It was so humbling to listen to to different stories, to understand that there were systems and complexities that were beyond my control, that were affecting the quality of life of individuals. Right, and so that was.
Speaker 1:That really raised a lot of questions, especially as I was pursuing all these questions when it comes to understanding the human experience, the idea of God, or God in itself. You know it's, it's. Those were big questions. I mean, if we want to get a little deeper in a second, you know. So who's God for the immigrant, right? So? So how has God present in the, in the presence and in the lives of people that are trying to pursue better opportunities.
Speaker 1:So I mean, maybe that's that is a theme for for a different podcast, but I so appreciate that we can just touch on it a little bit because it is, it is part of our story. I think it gives us reasons to be grateful. I also am convinced that it gives us opportunities to empathize and to have compassion and to understand that my story is different. And when I open up to to, to what you have to say, the other person has to say, a new territory, like the table, becomes bigger. There's always room at the table, you know, if we want to use that expression, and and their story makes our table more enjoyable.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, I think that because you, you open up that perspective, you become even more protective of their stories and their, their rights and you know the power that they have and that their presence has in this country. And but, yeah, I mean you, you hear these stories and it's just, it's so much more challenging than what I had to go through and I recognize that you know and I respect that so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right. So, rosalito, what are you most grateful for, or is there a list? Probably, not just one thing, probably.
Speaker 2:I think, you know, I'm grateful for for my kids and I know that that's kind of a given, but because I really wasn't sure if, first of all, if I wanted to get married at all, when I was younger I wasn't really into, you know, thinking they dreaming about a wedding dresser. You know nothing like that. I remember telling my mom if I ever get married, I want to wear a green dress because that's my favorite color, not a white dress, you know. And she said, please don't, don't kill grandmother, you know. And so when I got married I wore a green veil, because I don't not the best, but it leaves the veil, you know. But I just wasn't sure if that was going to be my path. And then, you know, I got married and I remember we had a conversation and I said, if it doesn't happen, naturally I'm not going to go, you know, jump through hoops to try to have a family. You know, if it happens for us, it happens. If it doesn't, I think I'm okay, you know, with that. And it did happen, you know, and we were very happy to have Habi and it was very challenging physically, emotionally, for both of us. You know it's bringing a new life into your environment, you know your home and your entire life changes and your focus changes. We knew that we wanted to have another one and we had Annie and we knew that that was it, you know. So you know these, these steps that we went through, and I have to say that I made the right choice. You know that I'm grateful for the choice that I made. And they bring, they challenge me. I apologize many, you know, I've apologized many times throughout our journey together because, you know, I make so many mistakes.
Speaker 2:And I'll tell you a very recent one my daughter. She stopped being, you know, a girly girl about four years ago, right? No, pink at all, she likes black and white and she doesn't play with all, you know, all these stereotypical gender definition stereotypes, yeah, and anyway. So it was her birthday and so she didn't have any earrings on, and so I had bought her some earrings, you know, a long time ago, but I didn't put them in anyway. But I was like, well, let's, let's put your earrings on, because you're going to take pictures and I want you to look cute. And she goes no, because they hurt, right. And I was like, no, it's just, you know, it's just a little earring, I promise it won't hurt. And she goes. Well, isn't it my choice? And I said, well, when you get, when you're older, then you can make those choices. And then I, you know. But I reflected on it and I was like you know what it was.
Speaker 2:I missed the opportunity to reinforce and tell her of course you know your body, your choice. Of course, if you don't want to do that, you don't have to, even want to wear that, you don't have to. But I missed the mark. So I recognize that, but you know, but I am more similar, or my son is similar, to my personality, my temperament, which which you know, can be a little intense sometimes. He says I have anger issues, mommy, and I'm like I understand, it's just. You know, it's this powerful fire that we have on the inside.
Speaker 2:My daughter, on the other hand, you know, she's a lot more calmer and so it's a very balanced environment that we create. But I'm very grateful for them, you know, and family in general. I mentioned my mother, you know, and the presence in my life and how she supported me. You know, I feel like I can call her and just tell her anything and she'll tell me what she feels and what she thinks, but she'll also protect me. Sometimes she doesn't tell me how she feels in the moment. She waits until later. She's a very wise woman, but yeah, yeah, I'm very grateful for people in my life.
Speaker 1:I appreciate your vulnerability because I I think there's so much merit to opening up to our areas of growth and and our yeah, I mean our imperfections. I don't want to call it imperfections, but that is the word that is coming up. You know, I think that's. You know, if you hear my introduction, when I say our shared human experience, it can sound very superficial. I'm actually referring to our human shared experience, which is the whole package and anger is one of them Understanding where anger comes from and what it does to us and how much it lingers, and our relationship to anger and what triggers us. It's a wonderful experience.
Speaker 1:So I I I appreciate hearing from you that you are developing this healthy space with your son where you can be open about it, because I mean, in my experience working with youth and young adults have seen that that creates a pace off down the road. You know, because you're really building the trust. You know our relationship as we know it's not just a relationship that is meaningful. I've learned over the years that it's a relationship that is open to recognize all the different layers and when a relationship just stays in a superficial area of everything is good and we just shove everything under the rug, because life is beautiful and we cannot show our areas of imperfection. I mean that's somehow. We all know that. That's gonna, that's gonna come up. It's gonna come up because it has to. It has to.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 1:Now, now that we have talked a little bit and touched this the subject of of areas of growth can you think of someone or remember a situation that you went through and now, looking back, you realize that you know yourself better because of it?
Speaker 2:Well, I have to say that one of the most impactful situations that I've been through has been my daughter's diagnosis. She was diagnosed with type one diabetes when she was two years old. She was still in diapers, a baby and and we were, you know, thrown this curve ball. We didn't know. I mean we, you know, her dad and I we didn't know what to do, what was happening if it was real and once, when that, once that diagnosis happens. It's a fast pace, continuous journey of learning and, understandably, you have to keep your child alive. You know it's such a big challenge and so many new terms and medications and just completely new world. And I remember talking at the time with my pastor about the situation and she told me she said there'll be a time when you will be so grateful for the experience that you'll. You'll say I'd, I'd live through it again. I'd live through it again.
Speaker 2:At that moment I was like, uh, I'm not there yet. I don't want to relive this. You know this is a nightmare, but and I can't say that I'm completely and totally there yet. You know either, it's been nine years, almost nine years, but I've been able to connect with people that I wouldn't have connected with if we hadn't gone through this experience. We learned about nutrition, we learned about the needs in Latin American countries of, you know, the simple, inexpensive insulin drug that everyone needs I mean diabetics need and it's not available. Yeah, you know the high cost of uh, of that medication here in the United States and and how we can get involved, uh, into you know, making sure that that lawmakers understand. You know that this, this is not uh, uh, it's not a game. You know it's. It's a life or death situation. Um, and sometimes it's just so silly because you know and I think, well, if my daughter has a, you know, an episode of a hypoglycemic episode, she only needs juice, you know, to save her life for a piece of candy. You know, but if it's not available, then she can have devastating uh results. Or, you know, and it's just it plays with your mind.
Speaker 2:But, um, but going through that experience has taught me really about myself. Because, you know, sometimes you say, well, I'm doing my best, you know, and it's sort of like a cliche or like a crutch. You know I'm doing my best, but you really know you're not. Uh, you know you can do more or you can do a little hair, but when it comes to her care, you know, when it comes to to her situation in particular, I'm doing my best. You know, like I give it my all, it doesn't matter if I'm tired, it doesn't matter if I don't want it. I really have to block those thoughts out and I, you know, and I consciously do it.
Speaker 2:I cannot, um, uh, dwell in the situation. I can't, you know it, it, yeah, yeah, no, no, slacking nothing. I can, I can, you know, close the book and not finish it one night and, whatever you know, come back to it tomorrow, um, not with the situation, so, um, so it it. It has taught me a lot about uh, about myself and about, um, how you know, discipline. I am and can be, and so I check myself in other areas because, if, if, in this area I am this responsible and and this discipline means that in other areas in my life I can also be when I'm responsible, you know, and I'm making excuses for myself, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Can we talk, can we unpack that a little more, cause that's really good right there. I mean, to me that's, that's human growth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am. I have to say that, especially in relationships, where I struggle with relationships because I'm laser focused on something Right now. It's my PhD work. Everybody knows it, right, my kids know it, my partner knows it, my parents know it, but sometimes when my mom calls, she's like are you alive, are you okay, is everything fine? I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 2:So I forget to communicate because I'm so focused on the now and the things that I have to finish and the projects that I have to and the research that, and so I neglect other areas in my life and, of course, the people that pour into me, the people that love me, the people that want to protect me, don't get a lot of me and that's unfair, you know.
Speaker 2:And so I've been really realizing that and I need to work on that area in my life and I recognize it, you know, but it takes a lot of listening other people's perspective, right, and other people's experience, and respecting and actually believing their point of view. You know, and I, because oftentimes we say, well, I don't care about what people think. Well, I do care, you know, not everybody, of course, but I do care about what my partner thinks of me and how I'm living my life. I do care what my kids think and say and their opinion, and I want to make them proud, but I want them to feel loved as well and protected and that they are important in my life. So it's interesting it's been an interesting year and a half that I've embarked on this journey educational journey, but it's yeah, I've seen things you know, areas of growth within me.
Speaker 1:You know, but I'm so glad that you know people, if you're listening. We didn't plan to talk about necessarily about this. This pocket is all about gratitude, but it's, you know, the universe, spirit, whatever, is leading us into this place, and I'm so actually grateful for it, because this kind of the ability to see the complexities of what relationships need allow for the relationship to be real. And there's so much. I feel so much gratitude when I know that I have relationships that are complex and that I know that that person is going to show up as who they are, willing to do the work with me. I think there's something so special when that happens, because I think we are giving each other the gift of life, the gift of getting to know each other truly, you know, and I just think it's fascinating because the truth is that lessons are always present, we always, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think the devil is in the details, right, and by that what I mean is like the beauty of the joy of life could be completely ignored when we lose sight of that, of the simple things, of the beauty of truly listening and what you said, which is believing what the other person has to say, because we can be so hard headed. I mean we can just okay. Are you listening to what the other person is saying, but you're not really let it sink in. You're not opening your heart and your mind to understand in what way your behavior is affecting them and how there's room to it's not. We're not asking for you to change who you are. I think the request is develop an awareness of how that energy and behavior in you manifest and affects other people. That's a completely different body.
Speaker 2:Right, it's not just their opinion, it's their experience and that was, and I know again, we didn't plan to talk about this, but when I separated from my husband it was about four years ago and that was part of the harshest part of that separation was understanding that his experience was different than mine. And at first I struggled and I asked for him to change his mind and say, well, that's not true, it cannot be. Until I said, well, I don't like it, but it's his experience. So I have to listen and I understood and so the healthiest thing for us was to separate. But I have to tell you and my mom always questions me and she's like that's just so weird.
Speaker 2:The relationship we have is so weird because we are very good friends. We are and we're not just parents to our children. It goes beyond that. He is my family and whether people understand that or not, it's fine, but that's our truth and that's the relationship that we have been able to build while being apart. But it was tough. It was tough to hear what his experience was, but it was the truth, his truth. So it's important to listen.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for sharing. Next question you ready? Yeah, all right, why do you do what you do, okay, and what keeps you motivated and is gratitude connected to it in any way? I'm gonna ask it once again okay, why do you do what you do and what keeps you motivated and is gratitude connected to it in any way?
Speaker 2:Well, I come from a family of educators so I knew that was my favorite game. Growing up was teaching. So much so in our house, when we were little, the doors in our rooms were wooden but you could write with chalk by them. So I would ask my mom to stop at the pharmacy to get me a box. You know chalk and I remember having, like you know, my fingers were white after writing behind my door and I love that. You know, I just love that sensation. And it got so bad because, of course, you know it gets all dusty and everything's war and everything. So my mom got me an actual blackboard and I had a blackboard in my backyard and I would play every day. I had an actual rollbook. You know you would go to the pharmacy to get a rollbook. So I had a rollbook and everybody's names you know my classmates' names on it. Everybody had graves.
Speaker 2:You know I had less than plans. You know as much as I could develop them, but I knew that that was my destiny. I knew that I wanted to be here, and then I found theater at a summer camp that I went to when I was 15. I don't know if you remember Luis Oliva. He's a Puerto Rican actor. He was the theater teacher and he said, you know, the theater is everywhere and, just like Shakespeare said that, we're all actors, right the world to stage and men and women are players. And that resonated with me and I knew, you know, because I was a creative person but I'm also an introvert, which is interesting, you know, for a person who can be ours in the performing arts, but there's plenty of us introverts in the performing arts. But that made sense, so much sense to me, because I knew, growing up in church, especially in an artistic church like the one that I grew up in, well, you know, everybody would sing, we did these big plays at, you know, professional theaters and we had people in the congregation who were designers, you know, and so it was a very professional experience that I had growing up and the opportunity to be on the stage and I was like, but I never thought of it as a career, you know, I thought of it as a hobby and then I just, you know, sort of you know, try to figure out how to embrace my interest in the arts but also my vocation to educate. And at the University of Puerto Rico I had a counselor and he was like Mary, the two, just, you know, go for education and theater. You can do both. So that made all the sense to me.
Speaker 2:And so, being an educator, I feel, and I, you know, I get feedback from some students. Sometimes that makes me very, very happy Because it's about, you know, impacting a life at a specific point in time. But then if you are, if you connect with them, then you have a lifetime of gratitude that comes, you know, back to you. And I connected, reconnected, with some of my students. Well, thanks to social media, we stay connected, most of them with me and we're, you know, I have a small program, I work in a small program, so it's sort of like, you know, you know everybody's first and last names and life kind of thing. So that makes me grateful for the opportunity that I have to be in a classroom, which is the place in which I feel that I, that I grow and give the best of me. You know, going back to being very disciplined and and say, well, I'm doing my best. You know, when I'm in a classroom, I know that I'm giving my all you know, and it drew.
Speaker 2:You know, after a day at work I'm like drained, you know, because I know it's. It requires so much of me. I want my students to understand what I'm saying. I want to take them on this journey with me. I enjoy what I'm sharing with them Because you're a teacher, you have to stay relevant or at least that's my opinion relevant and teaching them about what's happening today.
Speaker 2:You know what the theater is reflecting today. You know, historically it's always reflected when life is out there, right, it's just sort of like a mirror to society. It's always been like that and you know it continues to be and it grows and and and it challenges us and it makes us uncomfortable. I want to share that and continue to share that. You know. I think that's why I do what I do, you know, to connect with people, and not just in that point in time when they're students, but also as they develop and grow and have children and become educators themselves.
Speaker 2:Or you know, I see them, you know, on screen or on stage, or just, you know, have a meal or coffee, you know, and they know that they can call me and I had a student who checked on me the other day. You know she texted me. You've been on my mind. How are you, you know, and it was towards the end of the semester and I was like I'm dying here. Thank you so much for for reaching out. You know, that kind of thing is that human connection which ties in with with the human connection with your topic, with this podcast.
Speaker 1:And so what is this whole thing about connection? What's behind the connection? What do you think is behind this connection? Because I mean I, we both are artists. I mean you study, you study theater or study music and and there's something that happens, there's energetically something beautiful happening when, when, when an actor can channel and can be into this particular character and it develops and it makes you cry or you make you feel angry. You know what's happening, because I can see that in theater, I feel it in music too. What is it about the connection? Can you unpack what that means for you?
Speaker 2:I think you know in, in, in both in theater and music. In order to to achieve that, that relationship right between you and your audience, there needs to be empathy and it is the most important, I think the most important key to unlocking peace. And you know peace on earth really, if you're, if you have empathy for others, you understand, or try at least to understand their journey, to understand their decision making, whether you know they make good choices or not. You just try to understand because you're, you're on that path too. You know we make good and bad choices, Absolutely, but it's, it's having being in the other person's shoes, literally, you know, trying to get to that point where it's not just feeling bad or sad for somebody, which is more what sympathy is right. It's, it's a stronger, deeper connection, understanding of another person's journey. And I think that's how I don't think that's how an actor can be great. You know when, when they're, when they can feel what that other person is feeling, you know when they try their best to understand what, what their path is. Same thing with a singer you know to people can sing the same song or have their great voice, but then when you really feel empathy for the story that you're telling. Whether it's funny, you know, it could be, you know, comic, or you know, or very dramatic, or you know sing about heartbreak. Whatever it is funny story.
Speaker 2:Those are the kinds of songs that I that I think I interpret the best, those heartbreak songs.
Speaker 2:And my mother-in-law, years, years ago, I was performing at this event and and this lady was sitting beside her, you know, and she started a conversation with my mother-in-law and said, oh, she must suffer a lot, you know, because I'm singing the song and I'm, you know, very into it. And my mother-in-law was like, oh, no, she's very happy, you know, no, no, no, no, she's just acting, you know, that's just, that's just before me. But then I was like, yeah, because when you connect with with those kinds of stories, you know that that's part of your, of your, of your live journey, part of your growth. Is is stumbling and crying and and you know, getting your heart broken and you know feeling abandoned and all of these things that you know that helps with, with that raw emotion coming out, you know, in songs or monologues or scene or whatever it is. But, yeah, I think empathy is, is at the core of everything that that we do and and how we can understand the world helps.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you All right. So what do you? What do you do to connect, in order to connect with yourself?
Speaker 2:I know, when I was thinking about this, I'm like I really don't know what do I do. I think that I connect with myself while I read about other people's stories. In a weird way, I find myself in well, right now, in books, you know, in other women's stories, and that gives me a sense of self. In a way it grounds me, it justifies some of my thoughts. That can be controversial, you know, for some people's thing you read about somebody who thinks similarly or kind of, you know, articulates something that you've been feeling or thinking about. So that's right now, you know, in the now. That's how I've been connecting with myself is by reading about other people's stories that are similar in some ways, different in others. But you know I can.
Speaker 2:You know, taking a creative writing class, I was struggling so much because it was an internal process, you know, and having to let my thoughts out, I was like I'm never showing this, what I'm writing, to anybody. No one can read this because I think it's too much. And then you share with other people and they're like oh yeah, you know, that happened to me. Oh, I never thought about it this way. Oh, you know, that's so interesting. And you think, okay, that's not how I see it, but okay, thank you for your feedback. You know, yeah, but I think I'm on a spiritual journey in a different path that I've never experienced before. You know, growing up I had a very structured upbringing, religious upbringing, and I feel like I've, you know, I don't connect with that past as much anymore, you know, and so I have to find different ways to understand the meaning of life and understand, of course, knowing that I'm not alone. You know that there's a greater force around all of us. Right? Not necessarily what I learned growing up.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that you brought the conversation here, just because there's two things you talked about sharing of the stories and when you think of supporting groups, that's where the magic happens, right, because let's say I mean, just to name a few OA, overators, anonymous, aa, al-anon right, when somebody's new and is going for the first time, or starting to entertain this possibility, to explore what that would look like for them, it's so threatening but all of a sudden you realize that, oh wait, all these fears, all these feelings, all these thoughts that I had, this other person is facing the same thing and you start finding that you're not the only one. You start finding that there's. You connect with that person, you connect with their experience and it's sort of like I don't want to use the word normalize, but it helps you understand what you're going through and how to find meaning or go deeper into what the meaning of this experience is. And over the years, what I've learned is that, at the end of the day, that is a spiritual quest. And I'm grateful that you brought up the whole point of like you are in a different place in your life now, because I think that should be the case for all people you know, I think, regardless of where you are, I think we should grow spiritually and whatever shape or form that looks like for individuals, right Understanding the fact that some stories may no longer have the same meaning that they had at one point in your life and they no longer serve you Actually, they can harm you and to know the wisdom and to love yourself enough to say you know what I'm thankful for what this story or this narrative brought to me at some point in my life, and I'm going to keep it here, but I'm going to continue to open my heart and my mind to expand this definition of humanity, to expand the definition of love, to expand the definition of forgiveness, to expand the definition of grace.
Speaker 1:And so, you know, that only happens when you are willing to hold attention. And also, you know, drop what you have to drop and let it go. And until you let go of certain things, you're not able to gain new things. And it sounds stupid, it sounds super simple, right, but it is true. You know. I'm so thankful that you brought that up and I hope that you continue to dive deeper, you know, and I hope that that willingness and that courage will turn out to be a true blessing in your journey, yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that. Yes, absolutely, I believe it.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny, right? Most spiritual traditions and I'm choosing the word spiritual traditions purposely you cannot ignore the element of empathy. The element of empathy is so present. You know, if you want to look at the Buddha, if you want to look at Rumi, if you want to look at Jesus, if you want to look at different spiritual traditions, they all hone in into this element of if.
Speaker 1:When I see myself in you and you can see yourself in me, there's something really special there and we're connecting with an energy that really makes us a family. And it's hard because we're so attached to certain stories, certain narratives and our egos, right. But when we are willing to understand and unpack, oh, this wound that I'm trying to protect right here, it's showing up differently in you, but it's the same wound. So, at the end of the day, we are connecting in this thing that we call life, and that's actually suffering and difficulties is the one thing that can become a great teacher and that's such a hard lesson to learn and to embrace and to learn from right. I mean, what would you say about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree completely because it's hard to open up when you know what the outcome will be, when you have a pretty good idea of what that rejection or the words that you're going to receive.
Speaker 2:You know because you're not the first person to go through it and, at least in my experience, I had friends, family members, who went through it years fire, right and so I know how my family reacted to their challenging, their spiritual journey. So it's like you really have to decide, you know, if you're going to express yourself or just kind of keep it to yourself to avoid voices, you know, that are not positive or that don't really contribute to the path that you're walking, you know, through or going through. So, yeah, it's interesting, but I think at the end of the day, it's just the important thing, like you said, is to grow, you know, and that we all have to and we all should, and that's encouraging. You know, whenever I feel frustrated, I stop and you know, and think well, it's worth it. You know it's worth the analysis, it's worth the questioning. It's, you know it's worth it. I'm just trying to learn.
Speaker 1:We all are trying to learn too, and I agree with you. I think it's worth it. I absolutely agree 200%. All right, so, in closing, rosarito, because we can be here for a long time and the conversation is great, but I want to make sure that our listeners, we can keep holding their span of attention.
Speaker 2:Maybe this is a great reason to have you once again.
Speaker 1:So I always ask our guests, my guests, two things what is a special quote or figure that has inspired you lately or throughout your life? And if you have to invite someone to this podcast, who would that be? So the first question again what is a special quote or figure that has inspired you lately or throughout your life? Go, ahead.
Speaker 2:So I recently read the memoir of Chiara Alegría Hughes. She is a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright. She wrote a play called Water by the Skull, which is amazing, won the Pulitzer for it. But she's really known for writing the script, the book, for In the Heights, the Broadway show. She adapted it for the screening of the film version. She wrote the screenplay for Avival, that Netflix animated film.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that she really was a musician. She went to Yale School of Music. She wanted to pursue music and she wrote her memoir. The thing is that when she started putting music out there to producers one in particular, a total you're good, but you're just not great. You're just not. You just don't have that. You're almost there. But she went back to our mother's house and her mom said well, you are really a writer. You are a great musician, but really you are a writer. You've been a writer all of your life, ever since you were little. So she studied, did her master's in creative writing.
Speaker 2:Paula Vogel was one of her mentors and went out to win the Pulitzer Prize and it's amazingly talented and successful. So she closes her book with this quote and says and since our archive is in us and of us. Let it grow, not in word alone, but also flesh. The hum of our bodies together is nothing less than the book of our genius, and that felt like reassurance. We are a live archive. We all have our stories, we all have. We have our ancestors with us, and she found writing and, of course, in music too sort of like a combination of both of those to find herself her own voice. That her book is called my Broken Language and she talks about because, as you know, growing up in a Puerto Rican family, she didn't really know Spanish that well. She says English was my first language, spanish my second, spanish, my third. But she also unpacks different types of languages movement, music, but also the power of silence and how silence can kill and silence can affect you. So she found her voice through writing. So to me it was a very, very interesting way of closing her whole life story.
Speaker 2:And, in terms of connecting and reconnecting, I think that you should invite our friend Armando Garcia, dr Armando Garcia. I just reconnected with him and he's also a friend of ours from middle school, high school and has a very, very interesting journey as well, and he was in the city, called, and I was like, yeah, let's meet. Of course we had reconnected, but over the phone. Several years ago we started sharing our experiences. Talking to him is always wonderful, but we were able to meet each other, especially twice over the weekend. So it was amazing and it's been really sort of like half a year of reconnections for me and my life, with family members that I hadn't seen in years, friends like you that I hadn't connected with in decades. We can talk in decades now, right, I know.
Speaker 2:It's just scary for us, I know, I think, yeah, I think you shouldn't have a very fresh perspective on knowledge and the human mind and how it works. Very interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to have to make that happen. I'm going to have to make that happen.
Speaker 1:Armando Garcia, I'm looking for you. Brother, I'm going to look for you. Watch out, all right. Well, friends, listeners, family thank you so much, dioros Arito, thank you so much for this time. This has been a wonderful conversation and definitely the beginning of an ongoing conversation between the two of us and this podcast. I wish you nothing but the best. I can assure that what's coming is beautiful and I can imagine that your students enjoy in having you as an educator, and definitely you have shared how they connect with you. So all kudos to you, many blessings, blessings to you and your children. I look forward to having you again in the future. Okay, happy holidays, because we're recording this podcast during the holiday season. So I wish you the best For our friends. Happy Hanukkah, merry Christmas and Happy Kwanzaa to everybody, even though you might listen to this podcast later on. But once again, this is Journey Talks podcast and I am your host, jorge Sayoron Salis. I thank you for listening and I look forward to connecting with you next time. Take care.