What It's Like to be A Fearful Avoidant

My client decided to share what it's like for her to be a fearful avoidant attached person. We often think that only men are avoidant attached but what happens when it's a woman. 

Client S shares how she thinks and feels when she gets overwhelmed and what it looks like to heal. She talks about what she is going through as she manages her emotions during a breakup and what she would do differently if/when she gets back with her partner. 

Join us for this one plus hour chat . 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Did you just say wow? Like, or did you just say nervous about I did, I just kind of like pretended to wipe sweat off my forehead. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Correct. Yeah, you've never shared your deep inner feelings with your avoidant attachment style.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Yeah, that would be correct. I mean, I did share a little bit with you, but you know.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Yeah, that was just you and I. I know. Now it's going out to the world. So I'll just say thank you. Thank you for agreeing to do this podcast with me. I'm sure that a lot of people are going to benefit because you know what's going on out there. Everybody wants to know what's going on in the mind of a fearful avoidant.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Well, I can tell you what's going on right now. I feel like running away right now and just going for a jog. I don't know. Really? Is that what it feels like? Oh, yeah. Like I want to like take off.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Okay. Now, a question. What about this makes you so scared? I mean, we've known each other for a few months now.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Mm-hmm. I wish I could tell you. I guess it's just the being vulnerable and kind of knowing that it's going out there to other people whom I don't know. So why should I care? But apparently I do. Yeah, just feeling like, oh no, they're gonna see me, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:26

First of all, realistically, no one knows who you are. No one's going to know who you are. Right. Unless they really recognize your voice, because we're not using your name or your face. So they're missing out on that one. True. Thank you to see you. But what about this scares you? Like, what are you thinking? They may think about you based on what you say.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

That I'm weak somehow.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

It all comes down to weakness. Okay. Is that coming from you, or is it coming from what you hear people say about fearful avoidance, or is it a combination?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Maybe a combination, but definitely me. Like it's yeah, the whole love and relationships and all that I used to. It's funny though, because I feel like this is gonna be a little bit bipolar because you know, we have been doing the work for a while now. So there's a lot of things that I can see from the past that are very different now, where I can recognize them for what they are. So there are certain ways I was a few months ago and I'm not that way anymore, or I can recognize it for what it was. So it's like, oh, this is how it was, and now I see it and it's different now, which is kind of it's like two different people in me, you know?

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Okay, all right, makes sense. For those of you who are joining Decoding Attachment Style, what my guess meant by we have been working on this for a while is that she's also a client of mine. So yes, we've been working on healing your attachment style, and you've done incredibly, incredibly well. I mean, you've been able to say the thing, you know, you've been able to push through your fear of what is this person going to say if I send this message or if I say this thing. And I know it's been scary for you at times, but you're able to do it, which proves something that I've been saying over and over. We can heal our attachment style.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, you haven't had to whack me with a stick over the head yet.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

So no, no, and I never had I never had the feeling, I never thought of doing it. No. Great. Yeah, good. I mean, there are times when I do tell you that you need to push through this and you might be BSing, but that's as far as we've gone, but we've done, we've done pretty good. So I'm gonna ask you questions based on your personality. So anyone who's listening is going to be able to appreciate what goes through the mind of a fearful, avoidant, attached person. Definitely want to know what you're feeling in your body because a lot of times we feel like, you know, when I was anxiously attached, I was able to talk and talk about my feelings nonstop. And so when you meet someone who can't do it, it's mind-boggling. You're wondering, like, what the hell is so hard? Like, goddamn, just share your feelings and this relationship can work out. Right. So, but that's not what happens with a fearful avoidant, and we're gonna talk about it later. So I want you to start by telling me what happens when life gets overwhelming. Where do you actually go? Mentally and physically, don't forget the physical part.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Right. So, like I said, some of it has changed over the last few months. Thank goodness. But mentally, I would try to like escape into my own world. So, like my books or my podcasts, my true crime, you know, just distraction, right? Not to think about whatever it is that's going on. And definitely kind of wanting to be alone. Like when life gets overwhelming, I don't want to talk to anyone. And I don't want people to talk to me either. I'm like, just just leave me alone. Don't call me, don't text me, don't expect a response. It's already too much, and those messages are making it even more. And that, I mean, and that's like friends, family, partners, all of the above. Like when it's too much, I don't want to hear from any of them. And then physically, I think just my apartment, because it's like my safe space. So that's kind of where I want to be. My apartment, it's safe, even if it's messy, I know the space, I know what's where, and you know, who's who, and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, that's my little hidey hole.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

When when it gets like overwhelming, you don't want to talk to anyone what are you afraid you would say if if you had to respond to a message? Why is it you want everyone to just disappear? What are you afraid of?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

I just don't think they would understand what I'm thinking or feeling because this has been an experience in life where people are like, no, you're just doing this wrong, or me, me, me, me, me. And you're like, that's not how I feel. You're clearly not understanding what I'm telling you. So why would I be wasting my own time telling you how I feel if you're not gonna get it? So it's it's that misunderstanding or not being understood that I'm like, why bother if I'm just gonna get frustrated and upset when I'm already frustrated and upset? So just don't want to pile that on.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

That makes so much sense. So it's they're negating what you say. And here's what, as someone who used to be anxious attached used to do, and I find this with other anxious attached persons. When they feel misunderstood, it is not, okay, you misunderstood me. I'm not feeling good about this, I'm not gonna fight, push against you, and try to get you to see my point, which is what you do. You're like, okay, fine, I'm out of here. This is uncomfortable. I'm not putting myself through this. An anxious attached person will say, no, no, no, no, no, you misunderstood me. This is what I mean. And there's this back and forth because the anxious attached really wants to feel understood. Now, in your case, does it matter if you're you're feeling understood? Do you want to feel understood, or is it more like if you had to to weigh which one is more important to you? Is it to be understood, or is it to like remove yourself from the discomfort of not being understood?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Deep down I want to be understood, but the experiences in life have shown me that that doesn't happen. So I guess given that, why would I put myself in the discomfort of being misunderstood? Right? Because I will attempt to explain, because at first you you know, I was like, hey, the sky is blue, and you're like, no, it's orange. And I'm like, well, if you cover one eyeball, maybe you'll see it then, and you're like, no, it's still orange. Then I'm like, okay, I've tried, like, I gave you some room for like, oh, maybe we misunderstood, right? Each other. And if I try again and you're still like, no, it's orange, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm I'm I'm not doing this anymore, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Okay. Do you think this is what happens in the relationships when you know it's like, I've told you I don't want to be in a relationship, and you're still trying to negotiate with me and explain to me why we should be in a relationship, and now I've decided, okay, I'm gonna stop talking right now. And they feel like, oh, you're dismissive? Is it a case where I've explained myself before, I've set my boundary, sort of?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

You know, it's funny because, and and obviously, when you say relationships, I assume you mean all and any of them, and and it's like my pet peeve. I will literally tell people when they ask me, Oh, what did you say? And I'm like, I'm not explaining this again. If you can be bothered to pay attention the first time, why am I sitting here? So it has literally translated into my work relationships, my relationship with my family. It drives me up the wall to have to repeat myself because to me that means like you're not paying attention to what I'm saying, why would I be doing it again? So it definitely translates to any and all relationships. And again, of course, there's like, you know, when someone really likes, oh, I didn't hear you, of course, I'm gonna explain it again, right? But I'm talking where they could not have been bothered to pay attention. And I'm like, I'm not, I'm not doing this. If you can't be bothered, neither can I.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

So yeah, secure attached people will go through the same thing, except it doesn't drive them up the wall. Oh no, it's like it's it drives the wall. Yeah. So I with the secure attached, it's the emotions, the intensity of the emotions that an anxious attached would feel or fearful, avoidant, or avoidant attached would feel. That's the where there's the difference, right? Right. So it's not going to drive them up the wall, it more than likely will irritate them because yes, it's a human thing. But they're also very good with not explaining themselves again. And no means no. Right. No is a full sentence. And if you didn't hear me the first time, that all right, like you said, if the person was, you know, genuinely didn't understand or you know said, Oh, I'm I'm so sorry, I got distracted, you could explain again. But yeah, there is that problem with listening and hearing, listening and hearing. And I get what you're saying. Actually, only recently I told someone that I would not be able to meet them for dinner. And they pushed. They were like, Oh, but why not? And I did not respond. In the past, I would have continued with, oh, well, you know, but no, I kind of explained everything in the first message. Right. And it's that's it. And I think, you know, that it's one way of teaching people as well what what your boundaries look like. So the next time this person will not try that again.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Right. And I think there's also some of it as, you know, we're socialized to kind of explain ourselves as to as to why I can't make it to coffee or why I can't meet you. You know, we're trying to justify not to hurt anyone's feelings. But so learning to say no for me personally has been a bit of a journey. And and being able to say no without an explanation, holy smokes, that's like a whole new level of of being able to stand up for yourself that has been, you know, a bit of a learning curve. But it's been nice to be able to just like no.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

It it is good. I think a lot of people are going to be triggered here. And what I want to make absolutely clear about, you know, my communication with this person was a simple thank you for inviting me. However, I won't be able to join you maybe the next time. Now, this person, prior knowledge, knew that I had a bit of a headache, so might surmise that okay, that's the reason. But that is enough. You're being polite, you're not, you know, it's how you communicate it. Right. But there are many people who never learned how to respect a boundary and they push it instead of saying, oh, feel better or sure, we'll catch up another time. Oh, but why not? Why not? And it's generally, generally the anxious attached. I used to be exactly the same way, right? Generally the anxious attached that will do this. Now, let's talk a little bit about your childhood. Does this resemble anything in your childhood? It's the behaviors that you struggled with, the when there's overwhelm wanting to run away, shut down. How far back in your childhood can you remember this happening?

SPEAKER_00 13:18

That's a good question. I'm like, wait, let me go back in time. You know, from what I hear from what my mom told me, every once in a while they would like drop me off at the neighbors just to kind of like run some errands and whatnot. Maybe when I was about two years old, and my mom would say, Oh, you know, I would like put you on the couch there and like straighten out your dress, whatever, and then I'll come back two hours later and you'd be sitting in the same spot. I was like, and you guys weren't concerned that I haven't moved. Like I sat there like a doll and nobody said boo. Like a two-year-old should be destroying the place, right? I mean, that's what toddlers do. But no, apparently I would just be sat, you know, and sit there and wait. But yeah, I definitely definitely seems like that was my default mode, just kind of like shutting down and living my own little world. I grew up in a decent-sized household, so it was always like noisy, and there was always someone else needing something. So I kind of like didn't want to need anything, so I wouldn't bother my parents because you know my older sister maybe was louder or she needed more attention for whatever, and I was like, oh, they're busy, I'll just I'll just back off and do my own thing, right? Yeah, so I don't know, probably eight, ten, something like that, that I can picture that.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah. How did your parents respond to if your older sister was I don't know, being louder?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

So me and my older sister are very different people. And my parents had us very young, so there is that too, right? So there's some grave sentence to be given to basically teenagers. Well, my mom was 20 when she had my sister, so yeah, basically babies having babies, whatever. I mean, the squeaky wheel gets whatever, right? So my sister was the squeaky wheel and now is just not not not squeaky. And it's funny because this continues to this day, where she gets a little bit more, I don't know, support in some way, but that's again, that's because she talks about what she wants or needs. And I don't I I don't ask them for anything.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

So did your parents complain about it? Did they ever complain at any time that you remember about my emotional state? No, no, no, about your sister, about your sister. No. Okay. Because what happens sometimes is that we see when one child is acting up with their parents, and we're like, okay, that's a lot of stress for my parents. I'm not going to add to it. Right, right, right. Yeah. And that's why I'm asking, what did you like? Did you see your parents go through any kind of stress?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Or no, they didn't complain about her. It just, I guess I viewed it as stressful myself, like as the observer, like as a third party of their dynamic, like my parents and my sister. And I was like, wow, that's that's a lot. That's stressful. It was stressing me out, so I simply assumed it would have been stressing them out. And then, you know, observing the dynamic that my parents had between each other, that was a bit of a volatile relationship. So I was just like, meh, back off. How was it affecting you? So again, my mom was a teenager when they met, and so was my dad. So my dad was absent, he wasn't home a lot when I was, I don't know, between eight to whatever. And so my mom was always stressed and kind of like always looking for him, or just kind of like she was on her own with you know, four kids, right? That's a lot for anyone. So she was a little bit emotionally volatile, and so she, and you know, this feels bad talking about my mom, but like she wasn't a safe place to kind of come to, and because sometimes she'd be like, Oh, come here, I'll hug you, and sometimes like, oh my god, I can't deal with this right now, go away, right? So was dependent on a day. So I just kind of stopped going to her with anything. And my dad, like I said, he wasn't physically there, so well, you don't talk to someone who's not there either, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:46

That is true, but you do long for them. Look, I I know we talk about our parents from time to time and what happened in the past, and really I'm not about judging parents. I used to judge my both of my parents harshly until I worked through my attachment and then realize, oh my gosh, we're just humans. We're trying to do the best we can here. Like I tell Jonathan, my 15-year-old, every now and again, I've never had a 15-year-old son. I'm trying to figure out right. But unfortunately, our parents didn't have the kind of tools that some of us, not all of us, yeah, some of us have access to. Uh, and I really think, I really think for the most part, most parents did the best they could. So this isn't about your mom being, I mean, a teenager, having kids. I was in my 20s. I don't, I still don't know how I did it. I still don't know how I do it. But yeah, you know, they're they're trying their best. It's good to just examine that though and see that okay, there were certain things that happened in our childhood, and I saw it as chaos. And perhaps that is why I've learned one that I'm hearing from you right now. Don't be a burden to other people. Don't ask for what I want, because that's going to probably come over as being stressful for them. So I'm going to become self-sufficient. Yeah. Which is class to me. Woo! Classic, classic, fearful, avoidant trait. And I think, you know, the reason I I like talking about this is because we tend to think that the human being just poof woke up one morning and decided I'm gonna be this way. Right. And we forget that there were children who were programmed right to become this.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Well, yeah, I definitely didn't air quotes here, choose this. Um and I didn't know, it's funny because it's like, you know, I didn't know who I was, kind of thing, but I didn't see it for what it was until we started working together. I'm like, oh my god, this has affected pretty much everything in my life. And now I can see it for what it is, and yeah. And it's funny because like, you know, most people think it's like, oh, you're just scared of everything everything. I'm like, no, if you know me and you know what I've been through in life, yeah, I'm scared, but also I ain't scared of shit. You know what I mean? Like, yes, I'm scared, but I keep on going, right? I will go and push through and do things. So yes, I'm a recovering fearful avoidant. Uh yeah. But the feelings that drove me to do things, I would have never described them as fear because I didn't see them as fear. It was something different, some like the lizard brain would kick in and it would be something so different. And and where you're almost not in control of it until you learn about it and then you can see it for what it is. Until that time, I thought I was doing the right things, making the right decisions, blah, blah, blah, all of the above, right? So what makes you think it wasn't the right decision? Looking back, hindsight is 2020, right? Again, in that moment, it was the right decision, whatever. Because that's all the tools and for information I had. But I would have made a few different decisions in life, I think, if if I had the knowledge that I have now, if I had it at that time. Can you share some? Yeah, the big ones would be relationship-wise. Yeah, there was a situation where I pushed someone away because I didn't understand what was going on inside of me. Like, there was nothing that they did. He didn't do anything, but like my brain and my insides would panic. It was just pure panic, and I would just uh push him away, and I'll be like, Oh, I think you know, this is that we we shouldn't be together. And thank God at that time he was reasonable and kind enough to kind of come back and be like, hey, stupid. You're still stupid, or you uh got back to normal. And you know, thank God by then I would have kind of leveled out and we're like, okay. But honestly, I was not able to name it at that time, right? And it was, like I said, nothing he did. It was just something about me that like something would like almost like a flip would switch where that like the panic, and it would literally turn into fight or flight. It was not a conscious, like, oh my gosh, he's such a blah blah blah. No, it was like, you know, when you're watching a war movie and they're on the submarine and all of a sudden all the red lights go off, and you're like, oh my god! Yeah, that's what the inside would feel like like the red lights are on and I'm underwater and I gotta run because the aliens are coming, or whoever, or the Russians, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Whoever, whoever's the bad guy, yeah. Funny how we always go to the Russians, those are right. Yeah, it's programmed. We're so programmed. I know. My gosh. All right, so you said this person didn't do anything. Could it have been the way it was done? Was there something that could have been done differently? That the hearing here that you didn't feel safe. That's when alarm bells go off, right? Perhaps the alarm goes off in a house when someone's being intrusive. So, what might this person have done that made you feel unsafe? Even if even if it doesn't make logical sense to the rest of the world.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

So, with that particular person, I did feel safe. The because obviously there's more to us than just the attachment styles, too, right? I think for me, a big thing is being appreciated, and not for like, oh my god, thank you for making breakfast, I'm rolling out the red carpet. I mean, yeah, if you would, that'd be great, right? I'll walk on it, thanks. But just kind of seeing the little things that I do and or putting me first. Not always. I understand life happens, right? I get that. Like, I don't know, if you have stuff going on in life and you gotta talk, you're gonna go first, I'm gonna put you first. And then if there's something going on in my life, I need you to put me first for a hot minute, we take turns in life, right? So I just need to feel like I matter to someone more than the rest of the world. We're talking in like romantic relationship. Like, I want to know that I'm important, right? And if I'm just like everybody else to you, then how am I different than everybody else to you, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:06

It's interesting because the anxious attached feels the same way. They want to know that they're more important than everyone else in that person's life. And if I'm not most important, then what's the point? I think it's important for us to know that every relationship brings something different. Right so what you can bring to okay, I'm gonna use a personal example here. But Larry and I are together, we've been together for how long? Five years. I could never bring to him what his daughter brings, that relationship. Nor can she do the same thing that I do in the relationship. I cannot bring to him what his ex-wife brings. She gave the guy two beautiful kids, right? She can never do what I do in the relationship. Right. And the same thing with his work, same thing with him and my life. Every child of mine. There are four kids. Right. Deanna cannot bring to me what Jonathan brings. Right. Nor Jonathan can bring what Crystal brings. They're very different relationships. It doesn't mean that one is more important than the other. And I think this is how we get really messed up with how we set boundaries because it's the priority thing. When we start to think that one person should be more important, that's where the trouble starts. And that's when the others start to feel neglected. Right. Everything goes falling apart. And a lot of relationships with these two insecure attachment happened with me again. I keep saying that because I want people to know that, you know, I'm not on a high horse here. I know exactly what you're going through. I prioritized, we prioritize this romantic relationship. Now, with fearful avoidance, you will find, or any avoidant attachment, you will find that you prioritize the real the romantic relationship to a degree. Because when it starts to feel threatening, the priority still remains work and self. Right. Why is that so?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Oh wow. Wait, do we think I have the answers? That's great.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Why is it for you?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Yes, and of course I think you have the answers. Oh, that's awesome. My job is just to pull it out from you. Like you have your own manual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Okay, well, let me look through the manual real quick. I think they forgot to give it to me when I first came out of the womb. But actually, hold on. That would have been great.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Stick a pen, you had the manual. We always had the manual. Society and teachings and generations just told us, hey, sit in a corner, shut up, and what you know to be real is no longer real. You're going with my manual. That's what our parents kind of said. They're like, shut up, be quiet. I'm going to tell you what you need to be. But the first few years, you know, you look at a baby, they know exactly how to set a boundary. They scream and shout, and they will not come to you. And they'll smack you in the face. Yeah, they will. They do their thing. They could just feel your energy and they'll start screaming. They don't want to come to you. Right. Right. They know how to ask for stuff. They know how to share. They know how to forgive. Nobody taught them that. What we did was we taught them how to forget everything they already knew.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yeah, that's a very good point. Now we're just bringing it up. I'm going to refer to my nephew going forward. Yes. I'll like use him as a barometer, you know, like stick him in front of a human. If he's wailing, that's a no. If he's smiling, that's a yes. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

I no longer have to worry. There's nothing like ghosting and all of these languages that we use. No, it's clear. People show you how they feel.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Yeah. But yeah, it's interesting the whole like abandoning or whatever for the partner. For me, because relationships are so important to me, and I'm talking about like friendships and you know, romantic relationships, all of them. But maybe because I felt like I have not been prioritized ever. No, I I mean I have been prioritized with you know who it just anyways.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

So for me, making sure person for those of you who are listening, she means I mean she's saying I know who, yes, I know who, but she's talking about Voldemort, whichever important person.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Yes, my VIP, you know. Anyways, anyways, but because I have experienced not being prioritized in life, I think it was always very important for me to make sure that I have treated people as a priority. So be it, you know, if I had made plans with you to have coffee with you on Saturday, but then let's say my guy called me, he's like, hey, Saturday, let's do this. I was like, Well, I have plans with Annalisa. Well, you know, but just drop her. I'll be like, Well, no, she planned in advance. She made good plans two weeks ago. You just calling me last minute, I'm going with her. That's to me being respectful of you and your time and our commitment to each other as friends, colleagues, whatever. But what I've noticed, I started kind of not giving up, but like it was so easy to like, I wanted to spend time with him, right? Obviously, because duh. And I'll be like, oh, okay, I'll skip the gym. Okay, I'll skip Pilates. Okay, I'll cancel my massage so we can just hang out. And, you know, so those little things that were ensuring like my general mental health or general health, those were easy, so to speak, to give up without noticing what I was doing until eventually I was like, what am I doing? My body is sore, and like I haven't had a massage, and I haven't done Pilates. And this is by any means, I'm not saying it's his fault. That's on me. Because he never, like, if I said no, I'm going to Pilates, he'd be like, okay, I'll see you after. Like he would be very supportive of that. It was just me like, oh, it's so cozy in bed, and da-da-da-da-da, and we can just go get coffee, right? It's like cancel. So that would be me literally canceling myself, which is so dumb in retrospect.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

But yeah, stupid, huh? Uh I've been there. I've been there. No need to call me out. No, no, just me, myself, and I. It's all good. Yeah, I look, that's we neglect ourselves, and that's the you know, being in that space, you're desperate for someone to like you and for to be in that space with that person. And I mean, it's not being able to balance everything.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Well, and it feels good in the moment, too, right? Because you're like, I am cozy, I am warm, I I do want to stay in bed and and cozy up and talk about life or make coffee together, right? Instead of like running out in the rain to some stupid Pilates.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yeah, and I think it's it's okay to do that occasionally, right? I mean, yeah, last Friday I I think I might have stayed in, you know, or Mary might have worked from home. I can't remember, but we we stayed in and that was fine. But today I was like, no, babe, gotta go, because the podcast is done better when I'm in the office. And it helps when we have these other priorities, right? Right. I mean, the work that I do, that's a relationship, right? Doing this with you, it's a relationship. And when we prioritize, yeah, I know. Thanks. Thank you. Anytime, anytime. Let me just pause and relish in it. But you know, when when we prioritize, we know the importance, the feeling that goes with it, the feeling of getting a podcast on, the feeling of being consistent and reliable and and just just doing things that we love, then we can say, okay, sometimes I'm gonna stay with my partner, sometimes I'm going to cancel certain things. But if it's consistently canceling ourselves to be with that person, that's what we have to look at. I'm not saying have a rigid, you know, right, right. Yeah, I agree. Be flexible, but be very careful when one particular thing is pulling you know from everything else.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

And again, like I said, it was nothing he ever asked, it was me making that decision for us, even though I know looking back, he liked the other me, that the one who was doing all the things for herself. He liked and loved that person. Not that he didn't love me when I stopped, but like you know what I mean? That's the person he fell in love with, the person doing XYZ, the person going like, go, go, go, and yeah, so it's like do you think that had something to do with the space in in a relationship?

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Do you think you not prioritizing yourself might have something, might have contributed to the space you guys have right now?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Absolutely, yeah. Because I've changed. I mean, and and mind you, like, change is good. Change generally in life is good if you're changing in the right direction, right? Because you can change for the better or for worse. And this was not a positive change. I mean, listen, I love my Pilates and whatnot, but uh yeah, it definitely contributed to where we are or aren't right now. And God, do I wish I could time travel and do things with the knowledge I have now and and do it differently because I'm I wasn't I was a great partner overall, but this version of me would be so much better, you know?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah. We can't go back in time. Are you sure?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Aren't they working on this? I hope not, because the problem with that is if you did, you still wouldn't have the knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Oh no, I want to go back in time with the knowledge I have somehow. Yeah, mm-hmm. So, like if we just need to let NASA know that that's how they need to do it. And give up on NASA. I'll let them know. That's ridiculous. Absolutely and give up on what? Meeting me. Oh no, no, no, you're like somehow you gotta be worked in there somehow. Yeah, uh details. We'll figure it out. I'll let NASA know.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Okay, fearful avoidant with a plan. Always, and and I think that you guys don't have a plan, right? I think that you guys just you just similarly.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yeah, why because there isn't just one plan, there's multiples.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

I know. So that's what makes it a genius. What would you have changed if you could go back?

SPEAKER_00 36:11

And that relationship? Damn, okay, okay, well. First of all, I would have let myself lean on him more. Because I didn't, because of you know, the all the stuff we talked about, the self-sufficient and and don't bother, don't be a burden. Yeah. Oh god, don't don't cry, don't cry. But safe space, you could cry. Yeah, oh I know, but you know, I don't need the snot recorded on there.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

I mean, I've known you for a while and I could say this. It's actually a good thing that you're crying because again, people do not believe that avoidance can have feelings.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

So oh yeah, we got all the feelings, they're all tier.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Why is it more comfortable for you to tear up with me than it would have been outside of this?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

And again, that whole situation with the VIP to say that that it destroyed me is such a strong, but it holy shit, that it knocked me on my butt, you know? And when I met you at that point, I could not have cared less how you see me, if I'm covered in snot, if I'm if my hair is done for our you know, appointment or not. And so that's the space you got to know me in. So now I'm comfortable. But mind you, I I was talking to a friend about six weeks ago, and and she asked about something, and I felt like I was tearing up. I literally grabbed a blanket. I was on her couch. I grabbed a blanket and I put it over my head like I'm a toddler, just so she wouldn't see me cry, even though obviously she knew I'm crying under that stupid blanket, right? But I'm like, oh my god, what am I doing? Yeah, but I was like, somehow, if she didn't see it, maybe it didn't happen, so we're still cool. Yeah, I just I've always been like the strong one in my friend group and and the one that has the answers, and the one you come to advice for, not not the one who sits there like snotty and crying. Yeah. What makes you or what made you think that you crying would have looked not strong? Again, that's me. You know, it's again nothing my friends have ever said or done. It's my internal view, and I don't I don't view people as weak or anything when they cry.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

So, why did you think that it would be a thing that people would view you as? Take me back to childhood, take me back to your childhood. I don't want to go there. You saw you saw someone someone who was unable to control their emotions, and you thought of it as weak.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

You know, I think okay, wow, this is great. We're unlocking so many different things now. So for me personally, I have always struggled a bit with my weight due to some whatever crap and from my childhood that we're not gonna get into. But I believe my dad saw that as weakness, as me not being strong enough or uh self-controlled enough to manage my weight. And why are you like this? Why do you look a certain way? And you know, for him, the way I looked was a reflection of him, which is so stupid. I literally saw him yesterday, and the weight issue came up again because I'm like, yeah, why not? I'm in my 30s. I don't worry, I put people in their place yesterday. But but growing up, it was like, yeah, the like you're not in control of yourself because you've gained weight or you haven't lost weight or whatever, right? So why aren't you? So that was a part of it too. I remember now that you asked that question, I literally had like almost like a flashback to me asking my mom or my parents for help. I was doing something in a garage, you know, it was summertime. You're running around with a hose and trying to get your cousins or whatnot. And I remember asking them for help, like undoing something. And they're like, Well, you're big enough, you you got this, or well, go figure it out. You're big enough, right? And I don't have any kids, but I've worked with children and I've taken care of a lot of kids. And if a child asks me for help, I could encourage them to give it a try while I'm standing there helping them or guiding them, but I would never be like, you're big enough, go do it yourself, you know. Like that literally taught me not to ask for help, right? And so to kind of go back to in a very roundaround way to your original question, how would I have changed the relationship with him? I wish I was able to ask him for help. You know, like because I know him and he would have, oh my god, like he would have helped no no issues. And if he couldn't, he would have found someone else who could help me. I truly wholeheartedly believe that to this day. If, you know, if the world was ending kind of trouble and I needed him, I truly believe that he would come through. Maybe he wouldn't be happy about, you know, me being like blah blah blah. But I I truly believe he he would. That's the the person and the human being that he is at the core. And so I wish I would have been able to be, and you know, the whole concept of feminine and masculine, I people can't see me rolling my eyes, but I'm literally rolling my eyes at that. Like, yes, it exists and all that, but I've never because I grew up in a household full of women with a dad who wanted a boy, I feel like I became the de facto boy in the family, just because well, someone's gotta do it. Mom is crying, older sister is being herself, and the other two are too young. So I'm like, all right. I don't know if you've seen Mulan, but I guess I was Mulan, you know? Huge Disney fan.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah, yeah. How do you think he felt the VIP? How do you think VIP felt when you didn't lean on him? See, I guess that's the whole masculine feminine crap. Air quotes, air quotes. And then mind you, masculine feminine energies are great, only if it's on the healthy side, right? There's the unhealthy, and and that's what you were more than likely to do.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah. And you know, given what I do for work as well and the environments I work in, my work puts me in a what you would call masculine energy simply because I have to be a decision maker. I have to like go, go, go, and I gotta tell people what to do, and I have to convince them to do it sometimes, right? Like even if they don't want to. I'm like, no, no, this is what we're doing, or you're gonna die. So, anyways, I think maybe, and again, I can't speak to exactly how it made him feel, but I can imagine that would make me feel not masculine or enough, or or like that person doesn't feel safe with me, which is so sad because I have always felt safe with him. And like I said, I literally to this day know that I could always have leaned on him, and just I wouldn't allow myself to do that. So that part is on me, not on him, because I knew I could, and I knew he would have my back. I was just almost like scared to test that, if that makes sense. And yet I knew that the result of the test would be that he would be there. But at the same time, but wait, there's more, there's a plot twist, right? Given the fact that we're not together right now. I'm like, but so my old self kind of comes back, it's like it's like a peekaboo, and it's like, but would he? Because he's not here right now. So I have to shut her up, right? Because I'm like, no, he would have. If I presented differently, we would be in a different place right now. So I need to shut that. Uh is are adult words okay here? You said shit. Yeah, I think so. Okay, so I need to shut that bitch up, okay? Yeah.

unknown 45:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

So I mean, there's a scale of adult words too, you know? That is true. Well, according to what my my kids would say is let's not use the really bad ones. Okay. Or try not to. Fine. You can't have fun, I guess. I know, right? Here I am talking about bringing your manual back and being your old self, but let's still be controlled.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Oh my gosh. Whoops. Oh my gosh, I got you, didn't I?

SPEAKER_02 46:08

Yeah, no, no, no. I almost said VIP's name. I have to remember that I'm on air. I know. Thanks. I appreciate that. I'm wondering. Like you talked about the masculine, you know, you're in your masculine at work. I get that. And and every human being, we all have a masculine and a feminine, right? Right. That masculine needs to come out at certain times in every human. So with me and my work, that's this is where you get the masculine version.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Or when you're on the phone with customer care, you know, that's when the masculine needs to come out.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

When I'm with my kids and when I'm with Larry, it's like, oh, I don't want to do this. And I'm really, you know, like, can I please have water? And you know, I could ask, I'm comfortable. Right, right. That could even be whiny.

unknown 46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

So the masculine and feminine role does come out. How did his masculine role show up for you in the relationship that makes you feel like or makes you know that you would have been safe there? And I think that the one of the intriguing parts that most people are going to be questioning here is as you share these emotions, you felt safe with him, you knew he was going to be there. You does there was still that part of you that says, okay, even though you know this, let's not test it just in case. And it sounds like even though you've gone through all of this healing work, you now can recognize that that old version of you pops in and still tries to caution you, still tries to say, Well, would he? Because really, if you would have, would he not be here? And you've learned how to say to that older voice, like, hey, you don't belong here, shut up. You can call her a bitch. Okay. You've learned to tell that bitch, shut the hell up, stay away. You don't belong here. Right? However, let's keep in mind that bitch saved you all those years. You've you've saved, she did. Okay, all right. So let's be grateful for her while we put her down quietly. What does that feel like? What does that feel like to live with that fear of knowing this person's gonna be there for me? But I'm so scared to test it because what if I depend on them and they're suddenly not there? And then they do leave.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

So the part where then they do leave, that feels like shit.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Not to use the bigger adult words, you know. Did you did you compare? Did you like in that moment when when he left, did you was that confirmation?

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Did it feel like, oh well, uh in that moment, yes. In that moment, that was like, well, I in my mind, it was like, well, I should have seen that coming. Why would it be any different? I should have known. Never ends differently. I guess I wasn't worth it. I guess I wasn't good enough. All those freaking things, right? It's like, well, now we know I was right in a way. It was like, well, see, you are right to be careful, you are right to be cautious, you are right to be that way. Because what if you gave him more? What if you gave him and mind you, that man had 99% access to my heart. There wasn't very much that he hasn't seen or hasn't known, or yeah, 99%, you know? So, and yet the thought was like, oh, good thing you didn't give him a hundred then, right? Because he still would have. Yeah. So, in a way, it was like, there, there, you, you were right to protect yourself that way. Because look at the outcome, right? So it took me a while to turn that around in my own head, where no, no, no, it wasn't like there, there, you were right. It's if I was able and capable at that time to be, and not that I wasn't being myself because obviously I was. I'm not, you know, if I had the knowledge that I have now and I would have lived my life differently through that prism of being more securely attached, then we wouldn't have gotten to this place to begin with. So there wouldn't have been that confirmation, right? But like I said, that evil little pinch tries to pop up and be like, see, we have our confirmation. I'm like, no, he contributed and I contributed. It takes two to tango, and I certainly tangoed as well, right? So it's not a confirmation of my expectation that you know people leave. It's how I was then and how me being that way made him be a certain way too, right? Because we were a unit, so we affected each other, hence the outcome. And it's funny because I know I've been and I've been using this to explain this to a friend, right? Even if if you were to get back together with your person, how would the original equation is a plus b equals c? And she's like, Well, what if he hasn't changed? I'm like, well, guess what? Right now it would now be A plus X equals, we don't know what, but it's no longer the same equation because I or her would no longer present in that relationship the same way, it would be a very much a different relationship. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Oh, yeah, because you're different. Oh different equation. It's it's different people. The moment you go your separate ways, you be and especially when you start doing healing work, you become a very different person. So VIP has never met you. No, he has he knows a version, an older version of you. It's like an upgrade to a computer system, and it's an upgrade for sure. Like it's an upgrade. You've been doing incredibly well.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

What would it look like getting back together?

SPEAKER_00 52:22

I mean, there would be unicorns flying, pigs flying, flowers everywhere. No, I'm kidding. Okay, got it. I think that would be I think it would have to be like a slow, kind of slow burn kind of thing, where it's like a slow reintroduction, as much as I would love to be like just jump into his arms and you know, whatever. But given the fact that I am a different person, and you know, I don't know if he has done any healing work or or or not, but the time alone changes us too, right? So we both would be different people, but it would have to be slow and steady to kind of get to know each other anew, because it's not it's not picking up where you left off, it's literally starting something new. So it would have to be treated as such. And for me, I've done a lot of like forgiveness work, like forgiveness meditation, and not not forgiving him only, but also forgiving myself. Because yes, was I hurt, was I frustrated? Of course. But there was also a lot of me blaming myself, and that's not something I want to sit with for the rest of my life because I'm like, you know what, that's that's how I'm gonna be 95 and have five cats and and have never left the apartment and still like sitting there bitterly. Yeah, so I don't want to not forgive him, not forgive myself. I I have forgiven both. So he would have to be on the same page where he's not kind of holding the old stuff up against me, where it's like, well, you know, two years ago you said blah blah blah. I'm like, that wasn't me. I mean, it was me, but not the current me, if that makes sense, you know, because okay, now I just sound crazy, but yeah, it was me, but we're not the same people anymore.

SPEAKER_03 54:24

Yeah, it changed.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

That was just a tiny percentage of who you are, short period of time, right? Someone listening to this, listening to an anxious attached, listening to you say, Well, I'm gonna go slow. I think we need to go slow and not pick up where we left off. They're probably thinking, there she goes again with her avoidant self, not sure of what she wants, not wanting to commit, not wanting labels. Why would you want to go slow? I I get it, but I want to hear your perspective on this go slow.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

First of all, I do love labels of relationships. I love commitment, I want commitment. Commitment means different things for different people. I was never big on like, oh my god, I need to get married. Just not because I don't want to get married. I just in my heart and in my mind, I don't need to sign a piece of paper to be wholeheartedly committed to someone for the rest of my life. I thought I was already there. Let's put it that way. Labels. Hmm. Yeah, so I do appreciate a label of a relationship. And no, I don't think it's me being avoidant, I think it's just me taking the time to reintroduce myself to that person, if that were to ever happen. And me, in a way, okay, let's put it this way. If we jumped back in, I think that evil bitch would pop up because it would be like back to old patterns, and she'd be like, peekaboo, I'm back, and I'm taking the driver's seat. Whereas if I were to go slow, then it's like a kid passenger in the back seat. I'll be like, oh, we've met some kind of a marker. Like we hit mile five. Bitch tries to pop up. I'll be like, bitch, have a snack in the backseat. It's okay. We're still driving. We're still en route. We're still going to the same destination. We're just taking the scenic route, but we're still going. She sits back, eats her snack in the back. We hit mile 10, she tries again. I can feed her again, be like, we're good. Whereas if I jumped right in, she would kick me out of that driver's seat so fast and take over. What would she be afraid of? She would be afraid of the same thing happening. Right? Like us not working out potentially. Yeah. But at the same time, she would be the one who would sabotage it. So it's it's a bit of like catch 22, right? Because she would be afraid of that not working out, but then her behaviors and her actions would be responsible for things not working out. So it's like, what is happening here? So here's what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

I'm hearing that what you refer to as bitch is actually your triggers. The triggers. And you're now in control of those triggers, and you know that you need to go at a specific pace. Whereas in the past, the triggers were really acting as the puppet master. They took over and you were just moving along. You couldn't really process. You were triggered, you moved. Right now you were in control and you know exactly why you need to stay in control.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Yeah, I feel like if we were super fast, it's like you're driving on the road and you have like 10 speed bumps that you can see, and you decide to hit them at 50 miles an hour. You now have a concussion. But if you go five miles, then you're like, oh, speed bump. Okay, I got over it. Oh, another speed bump. Instead of like 10 of them hitting you at once and overwhelming you, you now drive over a speed bump, realize it's a speed bump, and you choose to move forward onto the next one. Versus if you go fast, it will all hit you all at once and overwhelm you. And that's when the default setting will kind of take over. And and I can see it now, which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

Yeah, and it's it's it it is, and you're you're seeing that this is what consistency looks like. It doesn't consistency doesn't mean speed up the process, right? It means I'm seeing the speed bumps, I'm dealing with the speed bumps, and I'm consistently staying to deal with the speed bumps because I know they're going to come, and that's what it is. And it's like I have this destination in mind. I don't plan on veering off and going on another road. I'm staying on this track, but I need to trust that the other person is going to stay in the car with me when we get to the speed bumps. Right. And that that is the consistency. We're getting the language is all mixed up across social media, what consistency is. People think consistency is talking every day. That's not it. It's a bigger issue. It's like, how do you handle situations when they arise? Uncomfortable situation, conflicts. The other person needs to know that even when there is a conflict, this person consistently shows up to resolve the conflict. I think that's what you're saying. You you want to make sure that you know he doesn't leave at the next sign of trouble.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

Right. Instead of jumping in. And mind you, I have no reason to think that he would because he was very consistent throughout our relationship until the end, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:48

So that's the part that we have to be careful of because there is reason for you to be afraid. You don't want to overlook it. The fact that you did leave, yes, you are going to be a little scared. Oh, yeah. But you look into the past, you could say, okay, this is not someone who would just up and leave unless there was enough reason for this person to not feel safe. Exactly. But yeah, you are going to feel a little uncomfortable. Now, this has been a long period of space between the two of you. It's entirely up to you if you want to share how long it's been. The reason I want to address this just a little bit is many people believe that after a breakup or separation, avoidant attached persons jump into another relationship. I know this has not been the case with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:47

It has not been the case with me, and it's been a little bit over eight months. Yeah, so definitely not the case of with only avoidance. No, I I literally am beyond zero interest in jumping into something different or new with anyone else. You know, I'm a bit of a romantic at heart, so there is that too. But I truly believe that VIP was, still is in my heart, the person that I'm meant to be with. So for me to no, I'm just not interested in jumping into it. Wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't be worth it. It wouldn't be worth my time, my effort, my mental space sacrificing or sharing, you know, your soul, your body, whatever, what have you? No, not worth it, in my opinion. Until I'm somehow convinced otherwise, it ain't worth it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

Well what would you say about those avoidant attached persons who can jump into another relationship? What's the difference with them and you?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

Great question. I mean, there is fearful avoidance and there's dismissive avoidance too. There's that. And I think I think for me at one point I was leaning more anxious in my fearful avoidant little whatever. Yeah, swing. Yeah. Sorry. I forgot I forget people can't see me. I'm like, whereas if someone leans more avoidant, I can see, and and mind you, I've done that too in the past, where not relationship-wise, I was never that person who jump into like a relationship, but I would want to distract myself with something, right? Be it work, be it, I don't know, watching movies for 20 hours a day, just so your brain stops going. Distraction, distraction, distraction. And and I think that's what it is when someone jumps right into a new relationship, or maybe they're just hoping, oh, look, a new shiny thing, right? I I think that's what it is a lot of the times, especially in like a longer-term relationship, right? You know, like, oh look, now I get to experience all those new things. I'm like, okay, knock yourself out, dummy. But uh, I mean, we all process differently. For me, that's not processing, that's just numbing and avoiding feeling or thinking about things. And and that's not how I want to live my life. I don't want to pretend that things didn't happen or pretend like they don't affect me because they clearly do. Yeah, so I think a lot of people don't realize that avoidants feel all the things, maybe not at the time that we expect them to, but sooner or later it will get to you. I hate to tell you if you're an avoidant, but it will get to you sooner or later. It will hit you, probably when you least expect it, you know. Cause I mean, maybe someone we know, maybe someone who's talking right now, has cried at the weirdest locations possible. We don't know. Maybe, maybe she did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Well, you know, I don't know if you were reading my mind, but I was going to ask you, what advice would you give to an avoidant attached person who might be in a relationship right now? They're afraid of sharing. You might be walking down the very path that you walk down. What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Well, so to book a session with Annalisa, no. Honestly, I wish I have met you sooner. So putting in the work now versus when shit hits the fan, because at that point, it is a lot harder to fix things. You can prevent things from breaking versus putting it back together after it already broke, right? Are you telling me?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

Of course I know. It's like them, them. I'm like, come on, people. This is it's harder. It's always harder to get and repair when you're in. There's um James Sexton, is that his name? That the divorce lawyer, New York divorce lawyer. Love that guy. He wrote a book and it says, if you're in my office, it's already late. Thank God. In my practice, that's not the case. It's not always too late. Right, but it is difficult, it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Yeah, I mean, so put in the work. You don't have to like if you're not ready to talk to your person yet about how you're feeling, talk to someone who can kind of guide you through it, like yourself or someone similar to to you, where you can learn to express yourself, right? Or you can see, or you can learn to see the triggers that that set you off, or make you pull away from your partner, or make you freak out and go like crazy anxious, where you're like bombarding them with texts and. Phone calls and then they freak out because that's a bit much, right? I mean, we've all been again as a fearful avoidance, kind of kind of fun because I get to see both ends of the spectrum in a way. Because I've been on a receiving end, you know, of like an anxious guy bombarding my phone with text, and I'd be like, oh my, oh my god, no. It's like off-putting, right? And nothing ever came of it because I would be turned off, especially like early on. Mm-mm, nope. So yeah, go and and get some help. It's as simple as starting with reading a book. You know, there's lots of them, or listening to a podcast, and then when you're ready, just start learning, you know. And and I find that working on attachment styles is so different than therapy, like regular therapy, right? Not to mention working with a coach versus a therapist. That's different too, right? Because a therapist can't really tell you, like, you're being stupid right now. Whereas a coach would, a good one would. Well, but you know what I mean? Like they can't kind of tell you what to do, they want to guide you to like get to your own conclusions, whereas with the coach, that relationship is a little different. I I can't explain it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

You really do think that they're all like me? I mean, you you you you no, that's what I'm saying. They're different, they're different.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

That's what I'm just saying. So hard to please this moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

There is there's a show, I can't remember if it was Netflix or HBO, Dr. Schultz, or or maybe not Dr. Schultz or Schutz or something of the sort. Uh-huh. He's uh a therapist, and I watched that show and it was incredible. I was I was thinking, my gosh, if every therapist can do what he does, he give tools. Right. That's the difference. A lot of times they don't give tools, and as a coach, I get to do that. I get to tickle with your past a little bit, right? And that's a little tricky, but I get to give you tools and push you. A coach gets to push you and hold you accountable. Whereas in therapy, not I I don't know what stops them. You know, maybe it's maybe it's the psychological weight, or I don't know. But yeah, we need tools. We all need tools, you know, to yes, you know, you mentioned reading the books, that's great, but then you've got to practice, practice the suggestions, which is what a lot of people don't want to do. So a lot of us are walking around with a ton of information, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

And that's the thing, you gotta like you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk, right? And it's not easy. No, I literally had to practice it this week. And after I practiced, I almost felt like messaging my friends and apologizing or being like blah blah blah. So I, you know, I'm visiting, I'm out of town, and I drove for like three plus hours to get here, and I'm always the one coming down and driving. And then I always meet my friends roughly at the same two coffee shops or a bakery, whatever, for the past decade. Okay, and it's fine, totally fine. But I'm like, there are only so many French pastries I can eat. I mean, actually, no, I can eat them all. Let's be clear here.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

Avoidance catch your pen.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Yes, but then so I already spent time of driving down here, and they would drive, they have driven up in the last decade twice. This is not to be calling anybody out, but I'm like, okay, there's an effort on my end, and and there was effort on their end, but we would always meet at the coffee shop, and that coffee shop is always close to them. So I would still drive from wherever I would be staying to meet them. And this time I'm like, you know what? I'm actually tired. Like, I've already driven three and a half hours, I have things to do, and and I don't want to waste another hour to get to somewhere where it's convenient for all of them, but not for me. So I messaged them like, hey, I'm in town. Let's meet at the place I'm staying at. What day works for you guys? And I create a little poll and they all voted, and you know, I could hear a little grumbling of like, I don't know if that day works for me in traffic and da-da-da. And in my head, I told my I told the bitch, I was like, you know what? If one of them can make it, that's not on me. I'll see them next time. So you're moving away from people pleasing. I'm trying really hard, but I like I said, at one point I was like, oh, should I be like, should I text them like, hey, sorry you guys, this is what I'm like, no, no, like I always make the effort, they can make the effort too. Like I have to give them the opportunity to make that effort.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

Now, one more uh question before I let you run off. What would you say to the partner of an avoid and detached person on how to approach their avoid and detached partner so that they can get some results and not have that relationship fall apart?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

Oh, that's a that's a good one. It's funny because I was taking some notes before our our chat, and I literally wrote patience, patience, that's how I let people in, and consistency.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:43

Girl, you know how much blocking I'm gonna get for that one? Because everybody out there, it's like, why do I have to be patient with the avoidant attached? My thing is if you want to be in a relationship, any relationship, even a secure attached people, tend to think that a secure attached person is gonna move fast, and that's not the case. But you're saying patience and what else?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:02

And consistency. I literally, I can like, it's right here. Patience and consistency. It says it right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

Yeah. So so the partner of partners of avoidant attached people, they believe that they're being patient and consistent. But what is the avoidant attached person seeing that shows that they're not really patient and consistent?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:28

Pushing them, or like just kind of like, give me an answer, give me an answer. That and and again, because like you said, people maybe get a little confused about the word consistency. As boring as it sounds, sometimes it just simply has to be a little bit repetitive, you know. I'm consistently, and it's the stupidest little things. It doesn't have to be anything big, it doesn't have to be you driving cross-country, it could be simply the fact that you bring me a glass of water to bed every night. Oh my god, I would literally VIP would make me coffee and bring it to bed when we were both off work. God, that is like the sweetest, most memorable memory I have, and it literally melts my heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

No, what would have happened if you didn't do it one day?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:26

Nothing, no, what would you have felt?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

You know what? In regards to coffee, we had this whole thing where we would like if he no, no, because like because I wasn't always insecurely attached to him, so because I knew he was consistent, if he didn't make it, I knew it wasn't because he didn't want to, it was because he was doing something else. But because we had that underlying consistency. Oh, you already had the trust. I already had the trust. It wasn't like, oh, he doesn't want to no, I'll be like, Oh, I'll make it today. Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

Yeah, I was I was getting to you know why why consistency is important because as human beings we look at patterns, and when something is something goes off the rail, we start worrying, wondering, you know, yeah, does he no longer care? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:22

Yeah, yeah. It's like all of a sudden you think maybe you don't matter, you know, or like, are my needs not important anymore?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:31

Yeah, mind you changed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:35

Just side note, I did not feel that way with him because he was very consistent with his coffee making. We we had a deal, like he would make the coffee, I'd make breakfast, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:45

Coffee's huge. I mean, I'm thinking about Larry too. He makes me coffee every morning, and then one morning he didn't. And I was like, wait a second, I didn't get coffee. He's like, Yeah, you said I don't know how to make your coffee your way. Cream and sugar. He doesn't make a cream and sugar.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:58

I was like, No, that's only for weekends. That's cute. But you know what? That's the same thing. Because I I at first, when he started making, because obviously it's a buildup, right? At first, I was like, he didn't make it my way. And then, but and this is for me part of the consistency, right? Because like the first time he made it, it wasn't made my way, right? So I got up, but I I'm not gonna tell you, this is whatever coffee. Oh, just get up and kind of fix it up the way I liked it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

Yeah, just hang on one second, one second. I'm sorry, pause you. Uh-huh. For those of you who are listening to Decoding Attachment Styles, the interview or the discussion, it's not an interview, it's a discussion. Discussion's over. I'm gonna thank our guests for sharing our story, but I'm not gonna hit the stop button. We're just gonna keep talking. So if you want to continue listening, totally up to you. It's something that we have grown to do over the last few months. We just chit-chat. So if you want to stick around for the chit-chat, totally fine. But the discussion on attachment and behavior, the official part of it is done. We're probably gonna still talk about some stuff. I don't know what's gonna come up. But yeah, just wanted you to know if you wanna wait for the next episode. That's fine. If you want to stick around for this conversation, you could keep going. I mean, you're not being held hostage, I suppose, but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:19

What a great chat to have. But yeah, back to my coffee situation here. He started paying attention of what I was doing with it to fix it, and he learned how to make it my way. And to me, that was such a you know, not to mix love languages into this, but that coffee is my love language, and and him making it for me. I like I said, it doesn't have to be a big act of God knows what that to me showed consistency, love, and care, and all of the above.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:52

Well, in my case, I am going to pick my battles. I don't see Larry going anywhere close to milk, so I'll just on a Saturday and Sunday, I'll just get up and make my own coffee. And the thing with me and coffee is I don't like people messing with it. It's very, very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

Oh, he he is the only person that has made coffee for me, and I was like, this is perfect, this is good coffee. And and we would always experiment a little bit with our, you know, coffee. People of that culture are generally great at making coffee. Well, and we put a Canadian twist on it, so you know, we'd put a little bit of maple, maple syrup in it. Yeah, heck. Have you never tried it with maple syrup? No, girl, I gotta send you some Canadian maple syrup. And I have Canadian maple syrup. Okay, that's right. You should.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:43

You should exquisite, yes. Might be living in the US, but Aunt Jemima ain't my thing. No, no, but yeah, who, darling. Thank you so much for this. We're going to do it again soon. Sounds good to me. Any wise words you want to leave with me?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:01

Podcasts are not as scary as you think. I know. I told you that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm still uh sweaty, but you know, it's just a conversation, it's really not a big deal. As to wise words, if you have an opportunity to look into your attachment style and put in the work early, because most people think it's only applicable to the romantic relationships. It is not, it is applicable to every single relationship, be it with colleagues at work, be it friends. I have benefited tremendously from this. I have been able to become more assertive at work where I need to be assertive instead of ending up in uncomfortable situations. And I'm growing my relationships with my friends because I can do things differently now. So look into it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.