Happy Valentine’s Day! But we’re celebrating with a bit of a twist. President’s Day is close, so why not combine the two and discuss some amorous activities of our White House occupants? We all know about Marilyn Monroe and Monica Lewinsky, but which one of our presidents had an affair with his sister-in-law? And did you know that one of our presidents was probably gay? And, finally, find out which president decided to name his, uh, well, just give it a listen. That and so much more!
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Happy Valentine’s Day! But we’re celebrating with a bit of a twist. President’s Day is close, so why not combine the two and discuss some amorous activities of our White House occupants? We all know about Marilyn Monroe and Monica Lewinsky, but which one of our presidents had an affair with his sister-in-law? And did you know that one of our presidents was probably gay? And, finally, find out which president decided to name his, uh, well, just give it a listen. That and so much more!
1. Topics
2. Additional Resources
3. Merchandise/Support the Show
4. Contact Us/Follow Us/Rate/Subscribe
New episodes every week!
Listen, rate, follow, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts!
Follow us:
5. Credits
This week, affairs, accusations, seducing your best friend's wife, and which president decided to name a certain body part. Welcome to Subpar Talks. Hey everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks, where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff.
Chris:And I'm Chris.
Jeff:Thank you again for joining us, and you know what's coming. As always, our standard disclaimer before we get into this week's topic, listener discretion advised. We do tend to touch on some mature subject matter from time to time, and oh my goodness, in this episode, we're gonna crank that up a few notches, at least. And there will be profanity from time to time. So if that doesn't set well with you, then maybe this podcast is not for you. But for those of you who, uh, keep returning, we know why you're here. You want the raunchy stuff, and you're gonna get it today because here we go with this week's topic. Chris, you brought up the fact that this is dropping, this episode is dropping on Valentine's Day, so happy Valentine's Day to everybody. But you also noted that President's Day is right around the corner, and we were wondering if we wanted to do something for Valentine's Day, maybe we wanna do something with President's Day, an episode about that. And then we thought, why don't we just combine the two, because nothing goes together like presidents and affairs. It's kinda like apple pie. It's just, you know, it's part of the fabric of our society.
Chris:The stress of the job.
Jeff:There you go. So that's exactly what we're doing. We are talking about presidents and their affairs and we could go into a ton of detail here. There's a lot of material. And just researching this and preparing for this, I found myself laughing, and I was astonished at some of what I uncovered. So we're gonna go through these and I figured we would do these in chronological order. I think that's the best way to go.
Chris:Well, we better get started cuz there's gonna be a lot to cover.
Jeff:Yeah, there is, no doubt. There is gonna be a lot to cover here. And I, I think these, these, um, affairs fit into different categories. Like there are some that we know 100% absolutely, without a doubt, happened. There are others that are rumors that there is some evidence that, you know, these dalliances happened, and then there are allegations. People have made allegations, and in some of the later ones that actually ended up in court, lawsuits and all that. But that wasn't really a thing back a long time ago. So that's kind of the different categories we have here. And so our first president that we're gonna talk about is Thomas Jefferson. What can you tell us about Thomas Jefferson?
Chris:Uh, he was known as one of the founding fathers, was a slave owner.
Jeff:Yeah, definitely. No, Thomas Jefferson, I find him, uh, fascinating for a lot of different reasons. He was, so, we talked about religion on a prior episode, and a lot of those founding fathers were Deists. Thomas Jefferson kind of took it a step further. He didn't even believe that Jesus was the son of God. He thought all that was a bunch of nonsense, and I don't know if you knew this, but he ripped out of his Bible any reference to Jesus being the son of God.
Chris:Really?
Jeff:Yeah. And then he made his own little notations in the Bible, and you can buy it today. I've seen this in bookstores. I've seen it online. I th it's just called Jefferson's Bible, Thomas Jefferson's Bible or something. But yeah. Wow. That'd take a lot of tearing out. Yeah, it would. He didn't believe in any of that stuff, but he did believe in like Christian principles. Like you know, if everybody would just treat each other the way they wanted to be treated, then that'd make for a really good society. And I think he, yeah, liked Jesus' teachings, but he thought the whole Son of God thing was a a bunch of nonsense. Okay, so here we go with Thomas Jefferson. He was rumored. So here we go with a rumor. He was rumored to have tried to seduce his best friend's wife, Betsy Walker. Again, that's a rumor, some evidence, but that's not a good idea right there. Not a good idea. No betraying your best friend. We do know this happened while he was in Paris. He had an affair with a married woman named Maria Cosway, and they continued to write letters back and forth, but it became more and more infrequent and I think he just kind of lost interest eventually. And they stopped writing each other. So can you imagine an overseas, whatever you want to call it at that point, relationship affair then? Yeah. I mean, that's all you've got is letters, right? That are gonna take what, weeks to months to get there? I, I would think Months to get all the way across the ocean. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. I didn't think about that. So do you know about Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings, his slave? I, I've heard that and I didn't even know if that was a fact or also a rumor. So back a long time ago, it was a rumor, um, when Jefferson was running for president in 1800, there was a newspaper. That alleged that Jefferson had fathered a child with one of his slaves. But the thing is like newspapers back then, they could just put in any shit that they wanted to. They lied all the time and there wasn't any real consequence for doing that. So all these years, it was just a rumor. But it wasn't until the 1990s that a DNA test confirmed that he had fathered six children with Sally Hemmings. Really? Yeah. And I didn't know this. Hemmings was the half sister of Jefferson's wife, Martha. Oh, wow. Yeah. His sister-in-law, Sally Hemmings was his sister-in-law because Martha, his wife and Sally both had the same father. So she was half black, half white. Okay. Well that just deepens the whole story. Yeah, it does. And I don't know I don't know what word to use, I don't know why Jefferson did not free her. I read that he freed the kids cuz they were slaves. I read that he freed them, but he never officially freed them. And he put that on his wife, Martha, after he was dead, to decide whether she wanted to to free her or not. And I actually don't know if she did. How does that work? Could a slave owner free, I mean, they could free their own slave, but what's gonna keep them from being a slave to someone else then Right? Being captured? I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know. And I, I don't know much about their relationship, but. There was definitely a difference of power there. So I wonder, did it start out consensually? I kind of doubt that it did. Uh, yeah, she was powerless to do anything, I'm sure, because of her status. Okay, so that is Thomas Jefferson. Next we have Andrew Jackson. You know anything about old Andrew? Not a whole lot, no. So he's on our$20 bill as of now. You know, he is getting taken off. Right.
Chris:I did hear that. I don't remember who's going
Jeff:on it though. Harriet Tubman is supposed to replace him. Oh, okay.
Chris:Why
Jeff:is he getting taken off? Because of his sorted past with Native Americans. The Trail of Tears, all that stuff. I mean, he. Forcefully removed Native Americans or tried to remove all Native Americans who were east of the Mississippi. Just stick'em out west. Get rid of them. Yeah. And yeah, I remember Trump had a portrait of Andrew Jackson and I think in the Oval Office, and he was all upset that Harriet Tubman was gonna replace him on the$20 bill. Mm-hmm. And I think when Biden got in the White House, he put that portrait somewhere else. Took it down. Yeah. Okay. Not a lot on Andrew Jackson as far as this goes. He actually married his wife before she was divorced. Whoa. All right. Yeah. And uh, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how he managed to do that. Obviously record keeping wouldn't be the same back then as it is now, so maybe it's easier, easier to get away with.
Chris:Yeah. Our question there is, what in the world was a woman getting
Jeff:divorced for back then? That's a really good question. All right, next up is James Buchanan. What can you tell our fine listeners about James Buchanan? I don't know much.
Chris:You know, I studied all of these people and like, so you mentioned Trail of Tears, things like that. Obviously I'm familiar with that, but I couldn't have associated it with the correct president. Mm-hmm. and same thing with Buchanan. Wait. Yeah, see I, I mean, Buchanan is a very familiar name to me, but I can't associate with
him
Jeff:with anything. I really don't know much about him at all. I know that he has always rated one of the worst presidents. If you look at ratings of presidents, historians always put him near the bottom. So we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here with James Buchanan Um, evidently because he, um, he was one of those presidents right before the Civil War that just kinda let things fall apart, didn't do anything to try to keep the, the union together. But James Buchanan was never married. He's our only bachelor president. He was probably gay. Did you know that? Really? No, I did not know that. Yeah. So he lived with a dude for 13 years. He lived with a guy named William King for 13 years. William King was a former vice president. I don't remember to who, but they lived together in the White House? No, not in the White House. Like this was before. Okay, but Andrew Jackson, I love this Andrew Jackson called the pair Miss Nancy and aunt Fancy to, to call somebody a Nancy back then was like, uh, to call a guy that, that was like a term for an effeminate man. Like yeah, you're, yeah, you're all a Nancy, like a woman. So yeah. Yeah. You're a Nancy. You're a Nancy. So anyway, it's almost certain that he was gay and people made fun of them, like those two together, but of course you couldn't, you couldn't admit back then that you're gay. No. That would've probably put you in jail in some places. Not lived to tell about it. Yeah, exactly. and certainly if you're going into politics, that would've been a non-starter. So he kept that under wraps, but it's probably the reason he never married. He just wasn't into women. All right. Grover Cleveland is next. I couldn't tell you anything about Grover Cleveland. Really? Actually, I can tell you one thing. He's the only president to serve two non-consecutive terms. Really? Okay. Yeah. So he, he won and lost and then won? Yeah. Yeah. See his
Chris:name's so f
Jeff:familiar, but I don't know anything about him either. No, I think he had a daughter named Ruth. I think that's where we get Baby Ruth. And I don't know why they named the candy bar that, why would you name it after the president's daughter? I don't know. Anyway, before becoming president, He actually fathered a son with a woman named Maria Halpin. And they named the kid. They named the kid Oscar. And the reason I'm laughing is because his name was Grover Yes. We're starting the, the cast of Sesame Street. Yes. You know, a hundred years before Grover and Oscar So Grover fathered Oscar. This became a little bit scandalous because he fathered, uh, um, a son outta wedlock. He wasn't married to this woman, but his opponents when he ran for president, tried to use this against him, of course. And they came up with a slogan. And I remember my dad saying this when I was young. I didn't know what it was about, but he would say it. And the slogan was, ma, ma, where's Paw gone to the white House? Ha ha ha. So in other words, mommy, where's my daddy? Oh, he's the president So yeah, they tried to use that against him. I don't guess it worked cuz he got elected twice. Twice. Yeah. So this is kind of an aside, but Rose Cleveland was his sister and she lived in the White House and served as the quote unquote first lady before Grover got married. So Grover got married after he was already president. Really? Yeah. Rose here struck up a friendship with a woman named Evangeline Simpson. Uh oh. Yeah. And in letters that came out long after Grover Cleveland had left. There were letters from Evangeline to Rose and she refers to Rose as my Cleve. My Viking, my everything Rose wrote back. There were a bunch of letters, but she did write back in one. I dare not think of your arms, and I tremble at the thought of you after Simpson's husband died. So Evangeline's husband died. Evangeline and Rose moved to Italy where they lived together until Rose died in 1918. So whoa. Rose was getting it on with Evangeline. That sounds like the
Chris:John Cheever letters.
Jeff:Oh, Henry My orgasm last night was Bliss. All right. Speaking of that, speaking of orgasm, We are about to get into. I just escalated. it. Yeah. This is where we crank it up a notch. All right. So if you felt like this stuff so far as tame, just buckle up everybody because here we go. We are getting now into the 20th century to Warren g Harding. You know anything about Warren g Harding, wasn't he?
Chris:Wait, who was the president at the beginning of
Jeff:the Depression? That was Hoover Harding. Herbert Hoover. Okay.
Chris:Harding. Was he? Um, I don't know. See, that's another thing. I remember studying so much, but I don't, I
Jeff:can't associate now have you heard of the Teapot Dome scandal? Uh,
Chris:that's the one I was about to say. Yes. Okay. But I couldn't
Jeff:remember if that was him. That was him. But I couldn't tell you what it was. It was some real estate thing. No, I think in Wyoming, but I don't know what happened, but it was a big scandal. But yeah, and I've since read about it, like I even cared enough to look at the Wikipedia page on the Teapot domes scandal, and I don't remember what it was, so obviously it's not really important to me. But anyway, here we go. And old Warren here. I think Warren, you can, you can listen to the le the, the rest of this and, and tell me if you concur, but I think Warren's gonna win the award for Horniest president. Well,
Chris:that's, that's
Jeff:quite a feat considering some of our more current It is, it is definitely quite the feat. But just, just wait. All right. So Warren. While he was president, while this started, before he was president and lasted until he died, he had an affair with a woman named Carrie Phillips, who I guess he took a page outta Jefferson's book. Carrie Phillips was Warren's best friend's wife. Not cool. No, but that's what he did. They struck up a, an affair, and it lasted for years and years and years. He was super horny. Warren Harding was, he commented to a friend, quote, it's a good thing I'm not a woman because I, because I'd always be pregnant, so, whoa. All right. He'd always be fucking Avf He also fathered a child by another woman. Don't know if that was, I think that might have been before he became president. So this was
Chris:not during the
Jeff:other affair? Um, yeah. I don't know if they overlapped or not. It might have been before. So Warren and Carrie Phillips, they carried on this affair for years and years and they wrote back and forth and both of them, thank God, saved these love letters. And in 2014 they were released to the Library of Congress. Mm-hmm. thank God, because now we can read them And among those letters, they wrote code words back and forth for what different things would mean when they wrote the letters. Mm-hmm. you know, like little names for this, for that, whatever Old Warren here went so far as to name All right. It's a good thing
Chris:I'm sitting down. I don't know what's coming.
Jeff:old Warren went so far here as to name his Dick
Chris:little Warren
Jeff:I don't know why he chose this name, but he called his dick. Jerry J. Little Jerry
Chris:It is Little
Jeff:Jerry All right, so ABC News was cool enough to give us some good excerpts from the letters that they wrote. This is by no means all of the salacious content, but these are pretty good. I think I've got, I don't know, seven or eight different ones here. My God. Okay, this is Warren writing to, what's her name, Carrie. Okay. Number one, wouldn't you like to get sopping wet? sopping, wet Wouldn't you like to get sopping wet for the joy of fevered, fondling, and melting kisses? Wouldn't you like to make the suspected occupant of the next room jealous of the joys he could not know as we did in morning communion at Richmond? Morning Communion. I know. I don't know what happened in Richmond. Was that them communing together? I don't know. I thought like church communion, like
Chris:I don't know. Morning communion might be
Jeff:morning sex. It could be, but when I read that I was like, wait, are they in church? Like he's taking the bread, but he's slipped a finger inside of her or something like, what happened? Jesus Christ. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus Christ. That's what she yelled out during the service. That's right. Oh God. The preacher thought she was really into it. Okay. Number two, honestly, I hurt with the insatiated longing until I fear, until I feel that there will never be any relief until I take a long, deep, wild drought on your lips and then bury my face on your pillaring breasts.
Chris:That's
Jeff:that's very poetic. Yeah, it is. Is this is not
Chris:your run of the mill slutty talk. It's
Jeff:like, wow. You're really putting some literary content out there. You can tell he's well educated. Yeah. Okay. Number three, Carrie Mine. You can see I have yielded and written myself into wild desire. I could beg and and Jerry came and will not go. God almighty. And Jerry came and will not go, says He loves you, that you are the only, only love worthwhile in all this world, and I must tell you so. And a score or more of other fond things he suggests. But I spare you. You must not be annoyed. He is so utterly devoted that he only exists to give you all. I fear you would find a fierce enthusiast today. That's deep stuff. It is deep. He is personified as dick. Yeah. Other than naming it Jerry, now it's got thoughts and feelings and motivation. Right. I gotta step up my game. Amazing. Yeah. No kidding. Wonder what my wife would think if I wrote her a text. Like this
Chris:new phone. Who?
Jeff:This?
Chris:Yeah. Right.
Jeff:Oh my goodness. I wonder how he settled on the name Jerry. I don't know.
Chris:There's gotta be something to that,
Jeff:I guess. I mean, you don't just
Chris:pick a name like that
Jeff:out of thin air. Okay. Number four, Jerry, you recall Jerry, whose cards I once sent you to? Came in while I was pondering your notes in Glad Reflection and we talked about it. Holy shit. He's talking to his dick
Chris:We talked about it. He's hallucinating.
Jeff:Poor Warren. He is horny and lonely. How lonely do you have to be to talk to your own dick? That's,
Chris:I will, I'll just put it out there right now. Uh, I felt really lonely, but not like that.
Jeff:I thought you were about to confess you to Gonna expose
Chris:myself again.
Jeff:Yeah. All right. Uh, gra glad reflection, and we talked about it. He was strongly interested and elated and clung to discuss. He told me to say that you are the best and darlings in the world, and if he could have but one wish, it would be to be held in your darling. Embrace and be thrilled by your pink lips that convey the surpassing rapture of human touch and the unspeakable. All right. Oh, it doesn't in there. Sorry. page two, joy of love, surpassing embrace. I cordially agree with all he said. Perhaps it is not important. Maybe it's not even interesting, but he is devotedly exclusively for you, exclusively for her. All right, so is he not having sex with his wife?
Chris:It at least implies he is not having sex with anybody else either. I mean, that makes me think of Jerry when he talked about, you know, people that are cheating with each other. He said it is even worse if they start cheating on the people that they're cheating
Jeff:with.
Chris:You're right. He said that's like, that's like somebody going in to rob a store and then turns to the other robber and says, gimme everything. You got to
Jeff:Yep. So now he's uh, old Warren is talking about her genitals too. I don't think he named it though. Not yet. number five. Jerry sends Christmas greetings. He would come too. If I might. Would he be welcomed? Cordially? Is she responding to these? I don't know. So I said earlier that she saved him. Maybe she doesn't. Maybe all we have is Warren's. Either way. This is good stuff. Okay. Number six. Holy shit. Wish I could take you to Mount Jerry. Wonderful spots. Mount Jerry. It's like, it's like a postcard.
Chris:I know. Wish you were here.
Jeff:Wish
Chris:you were here. Mount Jerry.
Jeff:She got a T-shirt that said I went to Mount Jerry and all I got was this lousy T-shirt. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris:Think mount. There could
Jeff:be a noun or a verb. Right? Mount. Mount Jerry. All right. Number seven. I am ever wanting to kiss and fondle to embrace and caress, to adore and possess. I can't help it. That is not spiritual. I grant, but very real. So now he's even rhyming. Yeah, I noticed that you said he's got game. It's good. Number nine. There are no words that my command sufficient to say the full extent of my love for you. A mad, tender, devoted, ardent, eager, passion, wild, jealous, reverent, wistful, Jesus Christ. It's a lot of words. This is like when Clark Griswold went off against his boss and just went on the tirade. Yes. Brainless, dickless. Spineless, whatever. I don't remember where I left off. Wistful. Hungry. Happy love. Unspeakably. Encompassing immeasurably absorbing unendingly. Worshiping unceasingly. Exalting, unwillingly, exacting involuntarily, excluding everlastingly compensating. God almighty. I forgot what we
Chris:were talking about. What was all that about
Jeff:I did too. I forgot where the Senate started. Did he do anything as president besides talk to his dick and writes his letters? An excellent question,
Chris:man. I don't know. Did he have any successes?
Jeff:I don't know. Teapot Dome. We got in trouble for that. Yeah, Wow. I don't know. Maybe his concentration was off. last one here, if I have an interpreted correctly, you do not wish me to bring the MRS to Ohio. You think? No shit
Chris:I would say that's an excellent interpretation.
Jeff:I would too. I doubt very seriously. And I wonder if Mrs. Harding knew that his dick was named Jerry. I don't know. Need to find that out. Okay. So yeah, right now he's got the title as Horniest President. We'll see what comes after this, but that's gonna be hard to top. That's amazing. I'm so glad those letters were saved. No kidding. Okay, we're moving up to fdr. You could tell us something about fdr, I'm sure. Right.
Chris:Well, the very idea that he made this list is news to me because, I mean, how does that
Jeff:work? Yeah. You'd sink being in a wheelchair with cool your heels a bit. Yeah. But no, not so much. Not so much. And what about her too? Oh yeah, I'll get to her. Yeah. Eleanor. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's. Um, spoiler alert though. Nobody from here on out name their genitals, so, all right. All right. FDR had a lifelong affair with a woman named Lucy Mercer. She was Eleanor's secretary, social secretary, and Eleanor discovered letters between FDR and Lucy. Mm-hmm. and Eleanor. Eleanor threatened to divorce fdr that would've ruined him politically, but she, for whatever reason decided to tolerate it and the affair continued until Fd R's death. And Mercer was actually, Lucy Mercer was with him when he died. Really? And Eleanor wasn't, um, I don't know if she was or not. I don't know. But that surprised me. I didn't know that. It just continued to go on like that. There were other rumored affairs, including his secretary, Missy Lahan, and another with the Crown Princess of Norway, crown Princess Marta of Norway. There was a rumor that they had had an affair. Now speaking of Eleanor, not to be outdone, she had her own extracurricular activities, not the least of which were affairs with three women. Nancy Cook, Marion Dickerman, and Lorena Hickock. Okay, so these are not rumors, these are folks Oh, no, not rumors. They are, yeah, they are. We have evidence of these, especially, uh, Lorraine Hickock. So, Lorraine Hickock was, was a journalist and she and Eleanor had a, uh, an affair that lasted 30 years. Oh. And there's a bunch of letters between the two of them. Yeah. And I have a, an excerpt of some of these. Well, I guess she
Chris:had to get hers too, if he was having his
Jeff:lifelong affair. Right. And it kind of makes you wonder once she found out about Fd R'S affair with Lucy Mercer, was she like, okay, well if you're gonna do that, then I'm gonna do this. And what are you gonna say about it? So I wonder if he actually knew. Uh, I'm sure he did. Not. Sure.
Chris:A journalist is the best person to be having the
Jeff:affair with. Yeah, that doesn't seem smart, does it? Okay. She called her hick, Eleanor Roosevelt called this woman Hick. Hick my dearest. I cannot go to bed tonight without a word to you. I felt a little as though a part of me was leaving tonight. You have grown so much to be a part of my life that is empty without you. Um, here's another one. Hick darling. All day I've thought of you and another birthday. I will be with you. And yet tonight you sounded so far away and formal. Oh, I want to put my arms around you. I ache to hold you close. Your ring is a great comfort. I look at it and think she does love me or I wouldn't be wearing it, so, Hmm. Yeah, definitely an affair going on there between Eleanor and Lorena. Alright, so that's fd r. Next up, John F. Kennedy. J f k. What can you tell us about J F K? Probably a lot.
Chris:Probably a lot. We covered a whole episode on him just with his assassination. But you know, I've heard a whole lot about rumors of his affairs as in just that there were a lot of them. I don't know really many names. Marilyn Monroe is the only one that comes to mind.
Jeff:But then, yeah, so I'm kind of like you. I always heard rumors, but I had never looked into it enough to, you know, explore any of that. So yes, Marilyn Monroe almost for sure. I don't know if there's any like smoking gun that yeah, they had a sexual relationship, but almost certainly. And then there's the famous happy birthday, Mr. President. I. God, if they weren't fucking then what is that? Well, maybe
Chris:they were after
Jeff:that Right? So there's her, there's Angie Dickinson, who was an actress back in the fifties and sixties. There was also Blaze Star who was a stripper. So we know that he had an affair with her and Angie Dickinson, and then almost certainly with Marilyn Monroe, and I didn't know this, but, but Kennedy was friends with Frank Sinatra and Frank Sinatra had connections in the celebrity world. So he was feeding all these women to absolutely. To, to Kennedy. We know that Kennedy also had affairs with two of his secretaries, Priscilla Weir and Jill Cowan. He called them Fiddle and Fatal. That was his little nickname for his two secretaries. There was also another woman, Judith Campbell, who at the same time, now this doesn't seem like a good idea. At the same time that he was having sex with Judith Campbell, they were having an affair. She was also having an affair with Sam Giana, who was a mafia boss in Chicago. No,
Chris:that is not a good idea.
Jeff:Not a good idea. And of course, when people found that out, they were like, oh, you know, the mafia. See the mafia killed Kennedy. So that's, that fueled a lot of conspiracy theories surrounding that.
Chris:But So she's having an affair with the president and with the mafia boss. Yeah. I wonder what happened to her. never
Jeff:heard from a kid. Right. Might need to look into that. She's with Jimmy Hoffa. Yep. So I wonder if Jackie Kennedy knew about any of this. Again,
Chris:rumor I guess. But I've heard that she knew he was having affair, so whether she knew about each one of those, who knows?
Jeff:It kind of seems like that many people you're gonna find out like, how, how do you, how would you keep that separate? And she's in the White House and he's getting with the secretaries, like, I don't see how she couldn't know. I think that's
Chris:what amazes me with any of these people is as the president and with so many people, and this is especially true and current times, I have no idea what it was like when, you know, back up a hundred years and, and more. I mean, now you've got, you know, visitors logs and things like that and, and coming into contact with multiple people all the time, and now you've got so much press and I mean now we're even talking social media and things like that. It's just amazing that you could do that and expect to get away with it as that person in such a high
Jeff:profile. I do know, speaking of press, I mean back then, and obviously before the press was exclusively men. Like there were no women reporters at all, so the press was the ones who knew about it. They were silent. They just, either they wanted to protect the president or they didn't think that it was any of their business to write any of that stuff. But today, There's no way somebody wouldn't write about that. Like you want the big scoop. Yeah. They've got the story. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Next up is lbj. Can you tell us anything about old Lyndon Johnson? Well, I'm shocked
Chris:that anybody would have
Jeff:sex with him. I know he is repulsive, right? Yep. So LBJ and the Kennedys did not like each other. They, I mean, obviously in the same party, but they really couldn't stand each other. LBJ looked at the Kennedys as privileged, rich assholes, and he grew up dirt poor, and he's just, you know, they're from Massachusetts, he's from Texas. It's just there. There wasn't a lot that they had in common. but obviously LBJ ended up on, on Kennedy's ticket cuz they both saw it advantageous. Mm-hmm. uh, to do so. But anyway, he was in a meeting once, I don't remember if it was a cabinet meeting, but some type of meeting in the White House and the Kennedy's came up and somebody mentioned Kennedy and his women and they said LBJ pounded on the table and said, I've had more women by accident than he has had on purpose. So Whoa, Yeah. The rivalry went to even, you know, how many women have you banged by
Chris:accident?
Jeff:Yeah. By accident. How does that happen? I accidentally fell into her. I swear. I know
Chris:It's not what you think.
Jeff:Jerry's got a mind of his own. I had no
Chris:control. Right.
Jeff:LBJ had a very long affair with a woman named Alice Glass and Lady Bird, lb J's wife, uh, found out about it. She knew about it. Um, she denied it for a long time, said she'd know anything about it. But there's a lot of evidence now that she knew. Um, Alice Glass eventually broke it off in like 19 66, 67, something like that because she was very anti-war. And LBJ is sending people to Vietnam left and right, like there's no tomorrow. And uh, she just couldn't hang with that. So she eventually ended it. That's a good reason. Yeah, why not? And then Madeline Brown, uh, this is, this falls in the alleged category. Madeline Brown said she had an affair with LBJ and that. They had a kid together, a son, but I think this was back in the, I think this was back in the nineties, there was a paternity suit filed and they were trying to recover money and uh, the guy died of cancer. He was 39 years old. So once that happened, it was like the suit went away. Um, there was some, some evidence that what she was saying was true, but nothing ever came of that. Okay. That's lbj, Ronald Reagan. Are you surprised Ronald Reagan's on the list and it's not much, but I was surprised. Is this during his presidency? No, this is before. So this goes back before. Okay. Nothing that we know of in this regard happened when he was. Well, that makes me feel a little better. Yeah. This was back in the 1950s is when this would've been, he was president of the Screen Actors Guild. Mm-hmm. and an actress named Celine Wa Walters. Celine Walters accused him of raping her. Said he showed up on her doorstep at like three o'clock in the morning, was drunk and forced himself upon her. Nothing ever came of that. Uh, supposedly she told people about it back then, but this is a very different era than we're talking about now. And it was just one of those things that, you know, people slipped under the rug or they said, not that big a deal. Move on. Big deal. Right. You know, which is not the proper response, but as I said, different era. So I'm not
Chris:sure what happened between him and Jane Wyman before he married Nancy. I wonder if there
Jeff:was anything to that. Yeah, I don't know either. Was he getting with Nancy before they were divorced? I don't
Chris:know. I don't know what the, the timeframe was or
Jeff:anything. Need to look into that. Um, also, this is a rumor, but Kitty Kelly, who's an author, uh, wrote about this in, in her biography of Ronald Reagan, the Celine Walters thing. She also wrote that Nancy Reagan had an affair with Frank Sinatra. Really? Yeah. Um, and she stands by it. Kitty Kelly does the author. And she's not l like some two bit author. I mean, she's written a lot of books.
Chris:And was this while she was married to
Jeff:Ronald Reagan to Ron? As far as I know, yeah. Whoa. All right. George h w Bush. I did not know this. He had an affair in the 1970s with one of his personal aids named Jennifer Fitzgerald. Have you ever heard of that? No, I don't think so. I had never heard of that, but that's all about him. That's it. It went on for years and years. Barbara knew about it. I think once she found out he broke off the affair. And then his son, George w supposedly, supposedly supposedly had an affair with a stripper back in his drunken hellan, fresh outta college days before he straightened up and tried to, you know, fly straight. Yeah. Texas monthly reported on this. I don't remember who first made the allegation. There is some evidence because she was mentioning different dates that they got together and it turns out that, yeah, he was in this city at that time, but you know, who knows? Okay, next up Bill Clinton. Holy shit. Well, that's what opened it all up right there. Yeah, it really did.
Chris:Even all the stuff about Kennedy, like for me growing up, it almost seemed like a, yeah, but nobody really talks about it very much is kind of behind closed doors kind of thing. And then with Clinton is like, oh, well let's start looking back and talk about all that
Jeff:too. Yeah, you're right. Different era and people definitely took a different approach to this stuff. Do you remember the name Juanita Brodrick? I came across that name and I've not heard that in years and years and years. I don't think I remember that one. She accused Clinton of rape. This is before he became president. She accused him of rape, but when she testified and was asked if he raped her, she denied it. So it was like she was making one claim, but then when the pressure was on and it came time to testify, she denied it. So I don't know that, you know, there's that much there. Paula Jones, you know that name right? Paula Jones. Yeah. Okay. So this is when Clinton was governor and he was at a hotel and I don't remember who she was working for, I don't know. But evidently he saw her, liked her, and uh, they were supposed to meet for a dinner or something, but he said, why don't you come up to my hotel room? And she did. and evidently he just whipped out his dick and asked her if she wanted to have sex. do you wanna have sex? You wanna have sex right now, She said No. And I don't think like he didn't, not, not according to her, I don't think he tried to force himself on her or anything like that, but she later sued and the judge dismissed the case, said, there's not enough evidence here. She appealed that decision and when she appealed Clinton and Jones settled outta court, I think it was like$800,000 or something like that. So instead of this thing going any further, let's just end it and be done. And that's that. She also, do you remember this She claimed that that Clinton's dick had some deformity. Oh man. no but. In the whole blow up over that blow, no pun intended. We're gonna talk about Monica Lewinsky in a second. uh, between all that and the Monica Lewinsky stuff, investigators had to photograph old bill's dick here, and there was no deformity. Yeah. So the fact that she said that it, it doesn't lend any credibility to her story. So I don't know. But judging from all the stuff from Clinton's past, like it would not surprise me if everything she said is true. I don't know why she thought it was deformed, but what, I'll tell you what
Chris:you have reached, I don't know what you want to call it, a, a low, a point of just incredibleness, literally incredible. If people are taking pictures of you, taking pictures of your dick to see if it matches someone else's deform description.
Jeff:It's like a, she should have had a dick lineup. I know. Well, that's rough It is. And I don't get this. All these men you are and, and the, the affairs, that's one thing I'm talking about. This type of stuff. If it happened, whipping his dick out and then grabbing women and all that. We're gonna get to Trump in a second. You're rich and powerful. You could have your pick of a lot of women. Why do you have to lure somebody up to a hotel room and whip out your dick? I, I don't understand that. I think part
Chris:of it is that power, like maybe, hey, I can get them to do this.
Jeff:I can get away with it. Or,
Chris:or why would they not? Because of who I am. You know? Yeah. It's wielding that power, I guess. But yeah,
Jeff:I know what you mean. So during that Paula Jones lawsuit, this is when he had to testify and he got asked, did you have a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky? And he of course denied it. But then later on we learned that oh yeah, he did in fact, In fact, I did have an inappropriate relationship. Do you remember the name? Linda Tripp?
Chris:Yes. Oh, mercy. That was. Oh, she's
Jeff:rough. Nobody had an affair with her No. I think Chris Farley played her on Saturday Night Live. So that sells you something about her. That seems about right. So Linda Tripp, for those of you who don't know, Linda Tripp was a friend of Monica Lewinsky and she knew that Bill and Monica had something going on. So she talked to Monica Lewinsky and she taped all these phone calls. She recorded the phone calls and she urged Monica to keep some gifts that Clinton had gotten her like over the past couple of years as leverage. Like you, you know, you're gonna need proof if something happens, if you lose your job or whatever. You've got this as proof. Just hang on to him also. Monica told them about what they had done in the Oval Office, and it turns out that there was a blue dress. Do you remember the Infa infamous blue dress? Yeah, sure. Do that. Talk about a smoking gun. A
Chris:smoking cigar is more like it
Jeff:smoking. Jerry So Bill Clinton in the Oval Office came orgasmed ejaculated on her blue dress and Linda Tripp said, don't take it to the dry cleaners. It's evidence. And so Monica kept her sea stained blue dress in her closet as evidence for later on in case she needed it. So yeah, you mentioned the cigar. All right. What do you know about the cigar or what do you remember hearing about it back when all this shit was going on?
Chris:Well, I remember watching the deposition of him live when they were, they televised this, and yeah, the lawyers were asking him about it. I remember the look on his face. It was priceless and humiliating, embarrassing, all of that. And I, I don't remember how they asked the question, but I mean, the whole, the story was that he had taken some cigar and stuck it inside of her. Yes. And then I don't know like what was beyond that, but that's
Jeff:enough So I remember hearing about that. And I had heard the story that she masturbated with the cigar while yes. While Yasser AFA was waiting in the next room for Clinton to walk in there, they were gonna have a meeting. Oh, I didn't know that. And that all this was going on. Yes. So I looked into this when I was researching this for this episode, and it turns out there's no evidence that they did this when Yasser AAT was waiting in the White House. Mm-hmm. What happened, evidently is Monica did put it inside of her and then Clinton Oh, she did? Yes she did. Yeah, she put it in her and he took it out and then put it in his mouth and said something. We don't know what he said. Monica never said exactly what he said, but he remarked something. I don't know. We can only speculate what Bill might have said. Well, it's wet now. It'll never light. Yeah. a sopping. Wet cigar. Sopping wet. Yes. Smells like fish. So, yeah. Yeah. So that's something lost to history, I guess, unless Monica reveals it at some point. I've doubt very seriously. Bill will, but man, and Hillary stayed with him. Stand by your man. Yeah,
Chris:but there's gotta be something more to that. I mean, there was Jennifer Flowers too. Now I don't remember the story with her, but she was out there. I just, the fact that, you know, there were multiple people and. There had to have been something more to it about Hillary wanting to stay with him. Maybe she had her own stuff and that's just never come out. Who knows? I'm just saying. So here's a question. Since you brought up Hillary and the fact that she has run for president, how do you think all of that would've been taken if it were the president were a woman?
Jeff:If the president were a woman? Yeah. What if
Chris:Clinton had been Hillary Clinton and having these escapades in the Oval Office and and multiple affairs and all of that information
Jeff:comes out? It would've been double what happened to Bill. I think it would've been the White House slut. That's what it would've been.
Chris:Yeah. And do you think that's still true? Is it, is it different now than
Jeff:then? Maybe a little, but I think there's still a gigantic double standard that you're gonna get judged more harshly if you're a woman and you're doing that kind of stuff. Yeah. Don't you think so? But isn't it interest?
Chris:Yeah, I do think so very much. And isn't it interesting that for every guy having a, an affair, assuming it's a heterosexual affair, that there's a woman on the other side of that? Yeah. So, hello? I mean, you're, you're judging the guy one way, but there is a, a woman there too, and she's being judged differently.
Jeff:Well, I, Monica Lewinsky was raped over the coals. I remember that. She was, you know, people call her all sorts. Terrible things and she was smeared in the tabloids and Yeah. Yeah.
Chris:And part of it was like, uh, opportunist too. Like why Yes. Why did this even need to come out, kind of thing.
Jeff:Right. Yeah. Well, I, I remember Linda Tripp getting blamed for that. Like, I don't think Monica wanted this stuff to come out. She was not, she didn't consent to the recordings. I don't know that she ever wanted it to come out. But yeah, there's some definitely a double standard there. Okay. And last Donald Trump, kind of like Clinton, holy shit. And it's kind of like, where do you start? He has had numerous affairs that we know of. There have been over 25 women who have accused him of touching and or kissing them without their consent. So, We don't have near the time, and I don't even think I want to, to go into all of that. And that stuff's all out there. We've heard of that numerous times. We do know that he had sex with Stormy Daniels. You remember Stormy Daniels? Yeah. The porn actress. Right. So they got together at a golf club in, uh, country club in, in Lake Tahoe, I think it was. And they had sex. And Donald Trump denied this of course, but remember right before the election, right before he was elected in 2016, it came out that, um, his lawyer had paid Stormy Daniels, I think it was$130,000. And so that was the smoking gun right there. Like they were trying to keep her quiet.
Chris:And now we know from the tax returns being released, that was. Written off as a business expense.
Jeff:just, of course, that's the everyday part of doing business, right? Right. You fuck a porn star and you're gonna have to pay her off. So shit, shut'em up. right? Maybe they discussed business when they were doing it. I think that's an anti-marketing
Chris:expense right there.
Jeff:So yeah, we know that they definitely had sex. Um, of course he still denies it, but Hello? It happened for sure. Uh, she was supposed to keep quiet about it, but she wrote a book. And, do you remember this, this made the rounds once advanced copies were sent to the press of her book she described as Dick. Do you remember this?
Chris:No, I don't. Maybe I blocked it out.
Jeff:Yeah, you might have blocked it. I was too traumatic. She said, Donald Trump's dick is smaller than average and shaped like a towed stool and she said he had Yeti pubes. What the fuck is that? I don't know. Does it mean they're white like a I don't know what. I have no idea. That's just what she says in her book. I don't know. Smaller than average. Dick shaped like a to stool and he had Yeti pubes. Well, I'm afraid to ask I would not recommend Googling it. Let's just speculate. No, She also said it may have been the least impressive sex I've had. All right. That I can believe. Well, yeah. In his defense though, she said his dick is smaller than average. She's coming from the porn industry, so, Does she know what an average dick is? That's true. Yeah. her perception might be skewed a little bit. Very true.
Chris:Of course, everybody talked about him having small
Jeff:hands, so There you go. There's that. Yeah. That came up in a debate. There was also Karen McDougal, who he had an affair with. He had an affair with her. We know this happened after he married Melania, and we know Melania found out about it, but they're still together. But what's their relationship like? I wonder, I never got the impression that they even, that they loved each other, even cared about each other. No,
Chris:I think, I think they're in it for whatever is transactional, you know, money
Jeff:or I do too.
Chris:Fame, appearance, whatever. I, I don't think
Jeff:there's anything there. Yeah. Karen McDougal was a former Playboy model and they carried on an affair for several months and then, uh, I don't know exactly why it ended. Maybe Melania found out and that's what ended it. But yeah, that was that. So there you go. That's quite a roundup there, It is, isn't it? Presidents and their Valentine's. And imagine
Chris:how much we don't know
Jeff:about. I thought about that. There's so much out there that we don't know that we'll never know. So do you still think Warren Harding's our Horniest president in history? I mean the, the letters
Chris:tell you a whole lot now. Yeah. At least from what we know. And I'm saying this based on, I guess, number
Jeff:of people maybe.
Chris:obviously Clinton and Trump get way up there.
Jeff:True. That is true for, I'll
Chris:say, forgetting around. That's the thing is, is number of people, I guess. Um, do you remember the movie
Jeff:Primary Colors? Vaguely. I saw it once. So
Chris:it was a really good movie and I, I think I've only, I may have just seen it twice, I can't remember, but as Kathy Bates, she was, uh, she campaign manager, I think, to John Travolta's character, and Emma Thompson was John Travolta's wife. I can't remember what his political position was at the time, but he was running for p. anyway, they said that it, there was, it was loosely based on Clinton. Yeah. And, and there were certainly, uh, characteristics just, uh, appearance, behavior, things like that, that could be tied to Clinton. But mm-hmm. his character was, uh, quite involved in multiple affairs, and
Jeff:it was a good movie though. So that book was published anonymously. And it wasn't until, I don't know, five or six years ago, maybe the, the author he revealed himself, he exposed himself. Oh, primary callers? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, really? But I don't remember who he was, like what his position was he on a campaign, uh, like campaign staffer or something. But yeah, he finally came out and admitted it was him. I didn't even know that.
Chris:Interesting.
Jeff:All right, so there you go. That is president and they're Valentine's. Holy shit. There's a lot there. And as you said, there's so much that we do not know. If you like this kind of stuff, there's more coming. So you should absolutely subscribe to us. Follow us on whatever platform you listen to podcast on. That way you will get new episodes delivered to you automatically. You never even have to do anything that will magically appear on your device Every Tuesday. While you are there, you can rate us. We would be really, really grateful if you would give us five stars. And while you're there, go ahead and write something. It doesn't matter what you write, but the way things work is if you put something there, it makes it easier for listeners to discover the show. You can visit our website, that is Subpar Talks dot com. You can email us, you can leave us a voicemail. We're gonna read whatever you write and we're gonna listen to your voicemails. And if you want go ahead and make a suggestion for topics we should cover on future episodes. Uh, we'll be happy to take those into consideration. You can follow us on social media on Twitter. We are at Subpar Talks on Facebook. We are Subpar Talks. If you wanna follow our personal Twitter accounts, we'd like that as well. On Twitter, I am at@independentjeff and I
Chris:am at Chris Bradford tx.
Jeff:And we have other social media links on our website. And last but not least, share Subpar. Talks with your friends and family and colleagues and anybody else you can think of. Share it on social media. The more people we have listening to this show, the easier it is for us to get this content to you. Every single week. Chris, anything stand out to you before we leave this about this list? Besides the obvious and that being Jerry, I'm shocked
Chris:that those letters exist and I I agree. I think that's great that we have that to look back on, um, with all these other people. You know, we didn't have that and so that, that's, um, enlightening.
Jeff:How about that enlightening. Yes, definitely. And you know what, I don't know if this will come up in any of my classes, but if a student ever asks me about Warren g Harding, I'm not gonna be able to keep a straight face and then I'm gonna have to. Reveal. It's like being asked
Chris:if you've ever read any of John
Jeff:Cheever
Chris:Right.
Jeff:Okay. There you go. That is another episode of Subpar Talks and we will be back next week. Until then, so long.