Do you miss the genius of Breaking Bad? No worries, as Chris provides a list of seven similar shows you should consider. And speaking of genius, we discuss George Carlin and Elton John. Also, how do we navigate the controversial issue of trans individuals in athletic competitions? And finally, tipping is out of control.
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5. Credits
Do you miss the genius of Breaking Bad? No worries, as Chris provides a list of seven similar shows you should consider. And speaking of genius, we discuss George Carlin and Elton John. Also, how do we navigate the controversial issue of trans individuals in athletic competitions? And finally, tipping is out of control.
1. Topics
2. Additional Resources
3. Merchandise/Support the Show
4. Contact Us/Follow Us/Rate/Subscribe
New episodes every week!
Listen, rate, follow, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts!
Follow us:
5. Credits
This week, show recommendations, George Carlin, Elton John, trans athletes, and tipping. Welcome to Subpar Talks. Hey everybody, welcome to Subpar Talks where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff.
Chris:And I'm Chris.
Jeff:Thank you again for joining us and before we get started, we do have our standard disclaimer, listener discretion is advised. We will curse from time to time, maybe a lot. And depending on the episode, we will touch on some mature subject matter and we inject our humor into a lot of this stuff. So if that is not your thing, then maybe we are not your thing. But for everybody else, buckle up, settle in and get ready, because here we go with this week's topics.
Chris:OK, so I came across this article that was talking about. The seven best shows as a repla-, well, not a replacement, but if you like, Breaking Bad, which obviously we do and who wouldn't?
Jeff:Right?
Chris:Is these are seven shows that are good alternatives. So not even necessarily current, because even some of these, if maybe all of these are over, um, but they're, but they're great shows to watch. The first one is a perfect lead in, I think, is Better Call Saul.
Jeff:OK, yeah.
Chris:I think you finished watching that, right?
Jeff:No, I was about to tell you. I still haven't finished it yet.
Chris:OK. Well, I can't say, I I can't ruin anything then.
Jeff:Right.
Chris:Well, you, you got to the last, did you get to the last season?
Jeff:So, uh, yeah, so I'm up to the last season, but I haven't started watching the last season.
Chris:OK. Well, in any case, uh, I think I've recommended Better Call Saul to a lot of people, partly because I think they did a great job. I mean, first of all, his character, his character's cool. His character's different in Better Call SA because he is not fully developed and evolved So good into the Saul character. Yeah. But. One of the things that I liked so much about the show is seeing all of the backstory of everything else. Mm-hmm. You know, these characters and how it led, and I think they did a great job of that. Yeah. I, I really think they did a good job. One thing that I read one time, and I can't remember, I know we've talked about both of these shows on here before, I can't remember if I said this before, but. Uh, one thing that I read one time was saying that, you know, breaking Bad was much more about plot. It's what's happening now, what's happening in this episode and that episode and so on, and Better Call Saul. It certainly has that, but it's not the edge of your seat. Oh my gosh, I can't believe that happened. Kind of thing. Yeah, all the time. Like I felt like Breaking Bad was. Better Call Saul is much more about character development. Yes, it is Character development. Yep. And you've gotta, that means you've gotta stick with it because Right. It is not the same kind of show. It's much slower paced. It is a lot slower paced and I think, but yeah, you're dead on. It is a very different show from Breaking Bad. Yeah. Well, I, I'll just have to say this. You've gotta finish. You've got to finish the last season. Oh, I will. Yeah, because it's great. Yeah. It, they, they did a really good job with the last season. Good. All right. What else is on the list? All right. The next one is
Jeff:Mad Men. Oh, great show. It was an excellent
Chris:show. I, I just kind of binged right through
Jeff:that one. Well, I don't really know what their connection is with Breaking Bad. I mean, I think it's
Chris:just, um, the, the drama of it all. You know, you, you've got kind of an ensemble cast and the drama
Jeff:high stakes. Yeah. But maybe they're onto something because I love both those shows. Yeah. That is a top-notch show.
Chris:It's been longer since I've seen Mad Men, so I can't talk about it in a lot of detail, I guess. But I, I really enjoyed it. I liked all the characters on there too. They did a
Jeff:yes, a really great job with the, and boy, that was a, that was a white man's world back then. Yeah, it sure was
Chris:a white man's
Jeff:world too. Yes, exactly, man. Yes. White and man. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was a great show. I think there's some
Chris:of it that I would almost like to have back. And I don't mean not, not the bad parts. That's just, you know, racist. The racist misogyny. Racist, sexist, racist, racist. Yeah. Not, not all of that, but I, yeah. But in some ways I feel like things have almost swung too far the other way. OK. That you have to be so ultra careful about certain things. It's like we are all still human. You know, we all, we do all have a sense of humor. And, and I'm not saying that that should be an excuse either. Mm-hmm. As in, oh, let me harass you and then just, you know, write it off as humor. Like write
Jeff:it off. Yeah. Yeah. Right. No, I was just joking. Right?
Chris:Mm-hmm. I'm not saying that at all, but I'm just saying people can make jokes and know that they're jokes and people shouldn't be offended as easily. That's probably what I'm saying. I think people get offended too easily in every
Jeff:respect. So I mentioned on a previous episode the series White House Plumbers, which is on max. It's about the, yeah. You know, Watergate breaking and all that. I don't know her name, but Sally Draper, the daughter. You know Don. OK. Draper's daughter. Uh, she's all grown up, so, oh yeah. That's all I say. No, his meaning there? No, just stating a fact. Does she grow up nicely? Yeah. Yes, she did. She developed nicely. Yeah. To make it creepier. She developed nicely. That reminds me, uh, In one of the, in the final season of Maisel, she's doing the standup on the boat, you know, Uhhuh in York, Carver, and it's for some diaper company. Right. Like diaper, whatever. And she talks about right how they're, I don't remember what she said, but she said all the guys there, the businessmen, their third wives we're currently in the diapers. So they needed to, yes. Oh, it was a great line. That's great.
Chris:That's hilarious. Now, I'll tell you one thing. This is something for Mad Men that we could bring back is drinking
Jeff:in the office. Oh, amen to that. Yeah. Now what happened to that? I don't know. I've actually checked my institution's policy on alcohol and it's a no-go, no-go. Yeah. Unfortunately. That's a damn shame. It is a damn shame. Yeah. Now that's
Chris:something on suits they drink in the office now they always show it after hours. They're lawyers, they're in there till all hours of the night. So yeah, I could see that would be different. Right. And I'd.
Jeff:I'd participate in that. I'd partake for sure, without a doubt. Yeah.
Chris:All right. The next one, and I've heard a lot of good things about this, but I haven't seen it, is Barry.
Jeff:Oh, Barry's a great show. You watched it? Oh yeah. Yeah. Did you watch it all? I did. So it's Four Seasons. I will say the fourth season kind of drops off some. I don't think it's as good as the first three, but it's a great series. It's funny, it's got drama stuff in it. I would say it's mostly a comedy, uh, definitely a dark comedy, but yeah. You'd like that? That's kind
Chris:of what I thought it was. Oh, well here the very first thing says dark comedy. Yeah. Bill Hater.
Jeff:OK. Bill Haters. Yeah, he's fantastic in it. Henry Winkler, which honestly, I don't think I've seen him in anything other than happy days. So. I didn't really know what to expect, but he was great in it. Yeah,
Chris:he was actually, he was an attorney in Arrested Development.
Jeff:Oh, OK. I never watched that. A goof
Chris:attorney, but mm-hmm. He was, he was pretty funny in that. Yeah. Um, he was all, this was a long time ago. He was in Click, he was, um, Adam Sandler's dad and that, yeah. Mm. OK. All right, so the next show is Fargo seen the movie? I haven't seen the series.
Jeff:OK. Well the movie's one of my favorites. There are four or five seasons of it, but they're all different storylines. OK. So it's all different characters. Um, the first season, I think is the one with Billy Bob Thornton. OK. You should watch that. That is really good. Yeah, and I'm getting my seasons mixed up here. I enjoyed all of them. The final season had, this is weird, but it had Chris Rock in it. Mm-hmm. And he was not playing of funny man. Mm-hmm. And I couldn't stick with it. I wasn't enthralled with it. So I bailed on that, uh, after four or five episodes. But yeah, it's well worth your time. All right. Good to know.
Chris:Um, the next one is Narcos. Now I started that a long time ago and I'm not sure what happened. I, I think it was just life. I, I don't, I feel like I really would've probably enjoyed it. Yeah. If I stuck with it. Cuz I, I think that's very much kind of in the vein of breaking bad.
Jeff:Yeah. I was the same way. I started watching it and I got three or four episodes in and yeah, I'm like you. I don't know what happened. I stopped watching it. I feel like I need to pick it up though, because it's so highly rated. Yeah,
Chris:yeah, I think so too. I would just have to start it over though.
Jeff:But yeah, I would too
Chris:that, yeah, I mean, having stuff about Pablo Escobar, all of that, I would, I would definitely like to, to see all of that because, I don't know how much they do. Well, I mean, it is based on the True story, true events. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I'm sure they take plenty of liberty with the show, but it's at least based on that. I, I'm definitely interested.
Jeff:It makes me think of the movie Blow, which I love. Blow. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great movie.
Chris:It was good. I, I already watched that. Several months ago. I had seen it years and years ago and really didn't remember that much about it, but I rewatched it. It is very good. Yeah. Entertaining. All right. The sixth one on the list absolutely. Great. Is Ozark.
Jeff:Oh yeah. No doubt. You finished that, right? Oh yeah, definitely. OK. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't a big fan of, of the final scene. No, I wasn't either. Other than that, it was fantastic.
Chris:I don't know what I would've done differently, but I wasn't a big fan of that either. I thought, that's not
Jeff:outta character.
Chris:Yeah, it was outta character. I'll just say, spoiler alert here. Mm-hmm. Is the fact that they were getting away with everything. I could kind of buy that because that stuff does happen. That stuff happens all the time. I mean, that was the detective's claim is like, you're not getting away with this. People don't get away with this. And they're like, um, since when and I, I can buy that part of it. But then the actual act I had my issues with too. Yeah. But it didn't take away from the show for me. I just kind of accepted it and moved on cuz it was right. So great. Yep. All right. And the last one on here is Boardwalk Empire. I honestly don't know anything about that.
Jeff:I don't either. I know the title, but I couldn't tell you anything about it. Criminal
Chris:Empire of Decades passed set in America during the prohibition era. And follows a cohort of criminals, political figures, and cops that help move the flow of illegal alcohol sales underground. Hmm. Well that's interesting.
Jeff:Yeah. I think I might be in just from that. Yeah. I
Chris:didn't even, yeah, I didn't even know that much about it.
Jeff:Now I'm surprised that two shows aren't on the list, and I've, we've talked about these shows and you need to watch both of these, but one is the wire. I was gonna say that. Yeah. And the other is the Sopranos. Yeah. Like Sopranos, there's a lot of similarities. You got a working guy, but he's doing all this criminal activity, but he's a, like, he's a husband and father and Right. Yeah. I'm just surprised that's not on there.
Chris:I did start watching The Sopranos. I got through season one and I barely started season two. And again, that was not too long ago. I mean two or three months maybe. Yeah, I'm not sure what happened with that either. Life, again, pick that back up. But yeah, I need to pick that up and yeah, I would like to watch The Wire, dunno much about it, but what I've heard, I'm like, yeah, I would definitely be interested in that.
Jeff:Mm-hmm. Good stuff. So Boardwalk Empire, I'm gonna put that on my list.
Chris:Yeah, I think so. For, for what that says. Definitely.
Jeff:All right. I've mentioned this person before on here, and, uh, that is George Carlin. I think he's probably my favorite standup comedian ever. Yeah. And, uh, If you're gonna do a Mount Rushmore of comedians, he's definitely on there. I mean, I, I think everybody would agree that he's there. I don't know who else we could argue about who the three are. Yeah. But I just got done reading George Carlin's autobiography. I was in, uh, a half price books recently and I saw it, I didn't even know he had an autobiography. Uh, it's called Last Words and it was published after he died. He had already finished the draft, but it was published back in 2008. It was really interesting to read. And the thing that sticks out to me is how hard he worked at everything. Mm-hmm. And I think people like that who are standouts in whatever they are, whether it's athletes, whether it's comedians, actors, whatever, people who. Rise to the top, like this is the cream of the crop of your industry. I think they have something in their personality that is obsessive, and yeah, they end up working tirelessly because I know we talk about, oh, this person's talented, that person's talented, or whatever, but to rise to that level of success, you have to work super hard. And that's what stood out to me. It was just like nonstop with him. But. He's one of my favorites and, and we've talked about this with standup comedians. Yeah, you have to be funny, but you also have to be smart. There's a lot of, you have to be incredibly smart intelligence that goes into what they do from the observations, like what they're gonna talk about, how they deliver it. And what resonates with an audience and then memorizing this stuff is just, it's amazing what they're able to do and I, he's just one of the absolute best at it ever. And yeah, his stuff with words, we've talked about words before. We like words, and nobody could dissect words the way that he could, how they're used, right. The different meanings of them and different contexts. But not only that, he would be just. Insanely funny when he was doing it, and man, it's good stuff. I went back and listened to the first couple of his albums, uh, well the first two in the 1970s. Mm-hmm. FM a m is the first one. You can find that one on YouTube. And then Class Clown is the second one, and they're great. Absolutely great. Some of the stuff of course, is outdated, but not a lot of it. A lot of it is still. Just, you know, relevant to stuff today. Good stuff. I'm not sure
Chris:if I've ever heard any of his stuff that was that old. I feel like most of, most of the things that I ever heard from him were later, I'm gonna say right, maybe eighties, but probably even
Jeff:more nineties. In the nineties I was the same way. So there's an autobi, uh, not autobiography, there's a documentary of, of his. Whole career on Max and I don't remember what it's called. It was great. I came out a couple of years ago maybe, and I watched that. It was really good, but I didn't know this. In the 1960s, he was more of a, just like you'd see anybody else with standup, uh, he'd wear a suit and tie and he was just doing standard like characters that people did. Yeah. And. In like 19 69, 70, he kinda reinvented himself and he was growing a beard and growing his hair out and kind of, you know, playing to the counterculture. And he started playing college on college campuses and that's when he really just became a huge thing. And then in the nineties, uh, probably late eighties, that's the George Carlin that I knew. He was really political. Right. And yeah, so he wasn't overtly political in the 1970s, but in beginning in the late eighties and then on into the nineties and I guess for the rest of his career, he was really political and uh, just funny. So funny. It's kind of surprising
Chris:that he wasn't, back in the seventies, given everything that was happening in the seventies, he could have been very
Jeff:political. I know. Isn't that wild? Yeah, and he, it's not that he wasn't political, like he would, he would say stuff that was political, but he didn't dwell on it. He would move on to other stuff. It was like just a one-off joke. Right. And I'm thinking of one right now. He was on the Ed Sullivan show in well at Bunch, but in the late sixties. And of course, ed Sullivan would censor everything. Like they had to approve everything that you're gonna say. Mm-hmm. And he had two jokes. I don't remember what both of them were, but they said, you can say one of these. You can't say both. You can say one. And one of those was, he recently read that a textile mill had moved to South Carolina. And he said, well, that makes sense because there's a higher demand for white sheets there. So, That one and another one. They wouldn't let him say both the jokes, but it was stuff like that where it was just, it's funny and it is political, right? You're talking about racism in the south. But yeah, so I didn't know about all his stuff in the seventies until I got to law school and we're reading the case where somebody was, uh, a dj, played his seven dirty words bit. On the radio right in the middle of the day and some father freaked out and then complained to the fcc and then there was a whole court case over it. But yeah, that's when I kind of discovered that there was a George Carlin before the political George Carlin. Yeah,
Chris:sure. Well, you talking about it being difficult, you know, I, I have just recognized that with so many comedians, Over the last few years, and I think I didn't used to think about it that way, is just how intelligent so many of them are. Yeah. Um, listening and especially, well absolutely listening to their standup, but especially you can get that when you see them in interviews. Yes. Just the things that they're talking about off the cuff. And it's like, wow. They can have these really deep, meaningful, thoughtful conversations. Yeah. Um, I, I forwarded you a link just the other day from George Carlin. There was an interview I had never seen. Mm-hmm. And I haven't that, that's one thing about him. I haven't seen very much of him outside of his standup. Right. Um, in any interviews. But, you know, Jerry Seinfeld, he did that. Um, It was a kind of documentary movie, what was it like 20 years ago? Called, yeah. Comedian or something like that. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. It was all about the work. Going into preparing the jokes. Preparing the standup. Yeah. And he just said in there, this is so fucking difficult. Yeah. And I can't imagine I, because. On the one hand, you know, you're looking at their intelligence and, and just the way they see the world, um, to, to even come up with the, the pieces of the material. But then recognizing it, you know, noticing it as something that you could use is one thing. Getting the words around it. The, the correct words, the delivery, the timing, all of that, it all has to come together just right. And like you said, memorizing it and hitting that, hitting the line. And it's amazing. It's amazing what, what the best of those people can do.
Jeff:I know it. And for those of you who don't know George Carlin, it's, it's his famous bit. Look it up. It's a seven dirty words you can't say on tv. And he first did it in 1970. One, I think is when he came up with this, he was curious about what can I not say on tv and why? Because his whole thing was these are just words and who decided what's allowed and what's not. And he said some words you can say on tv and then other times you can't. And we've kind of talked about this, how the word dick. You can say the word dick on network TV in the middle of the day. So I can say this is an old fashioned term and it, it's funny when I hear somebody say it, but a, a detective, a private dick, that's perfectly fine to say, but you can't say, suck my dick. Can't do that or Let me see your dick. Can't do that.
Chris:I would
Jeff:never say that. He says, you can say the word prick on tv. You can say, oh, I prick my finger. But you can't say, oh, I fingered my prick. Can't
Chris:do that.
Jeff:So who decides what's allowed and what's not? And of course the ones he said, you could never say ever, under any circumstances. Shit. Piss fuck, cunt motherfucker. Cocksucker and tits. Those were the seven words.
Chris:Well, you really rattled those off.
Jeff:Oh well yeah, cuz I've heard it. But you should hear him rattle it off. It's so fast. And then he dissects all of the words and it's just, it's genius is what it is. But that was a good book, his autobiography, it's a quick read and, uh, it makes you respect the craft of, of standup even more. Of course when you're snorting cocaine left and right, that helps too. Was that what he was into? Uh, yeah. So he had been smoking weed for a long time. He said since he was like 13 or 14. And then he graduated to cocaine and I don't know what else, but cocaine became his drug of choice. And you know, he is snorting that left and right and he would stay up for days as people who snort cocaine left and Right. Tend to do. And he would just write. Yeah, he would just think of stuff if I
Chris:knew I could do it and then not do it. Like not have the addiction. Yeah. I could be into that. Right. I'd like to just see what my brain could come up with when it's
Jeff:stimulated like that. Yeah. And I think the draw of people in that environment is not necessarily the high, the feeling you get from it. I think it's more about I can, I'm more productive. I can, I have all these ideas, all these things, and I'm energetic. Yeah. And then when you're not on it, you don't feel that motivation anymore. It's like, I don't, I don't wanna do it. I think that there's a lot to that, but man, totally see that. Yeah, it's a hard life. Well,
Chris:for those that want more on George Carlin, you can go back and listen to our episode 14 is the case for cursing.
Jeff:That's where we covered. Oh, there you go. We covered him a lot. Yeah, so there you go.
Chris:All right. You don't even have to go outside of us.
Jeff:Along the lines of entertainment stuff. I read recently that Elton John just gave his last performance in the uk, and really? Yeah. That's kind of a big deal. I, I, it was an article in The Guardian, I think, but the New York Times linked to it. I, I've thought about this before, how we need to, as a society, Try to appreciate people more while they're still alive because it seems like when somebody dies, when we all think about how great this person was or what they contributed or whatever. Yeah, and I'm trying to be more conscious of that for, I don't know, musicians who are getting on up there in age actors, what have you. I saw recently, gene Hackman is like 91 years old and he's, oh my gosh. Obviously not acting anymore. But man, he's a really good actor and. I don't know. But anyway, with Elton John, Jesus Christ. I mean, I don't know where to start. I don't know how you feel about his music if you generally like it, if you don't, but
Chris:it depends. I can go, it depends on the song. Honestly. Some of his I really like. Some of it I'm
Jeff:not as crazy about. Yeah, I'm the same way. But I'll tell you, like on Spotify creating playlists, he's got one of the longest playlists of any of the artists that I have there. Partly because he is been doing it so long, but I just really like his style of music and a lot of the different albums that he put out. And his stuff that he put out from 1970 to about 1974 is almost unmatched. Like just hit after hit after hit. He was one of the biggest stars in the world at the time. Kind of fell off in the late seventies, but he's kind of had a revitalization like he's. Yes. Done some stuff with modern artists.
Chris:Yeah, that's crazy to think about somebody who's been around that long doing this, doing something like that. Yeah. Performing, whether it's, yeah, acting, music, any, any kind of artistic talent like that and doing it for that long and staying relevant enough. You know, there are plenty of people who will go out and perform now, and they're perf, I mean, of course he would perform stuff from a long time ago, but he's still been doing new stuff
Jeff:too. It's crazy. And talk about doing cocaine. So maybe this is why he was so productive. But he was burning through cocaine all through the early seventies, and he kind of hit a brick wall about 75 or 76. But yeah. Yeah, it is amazing that he's had the longevity needed to sleep. Yeah. I think I'll sleep now after five years. See what that's like. Anyway, if you don't know Elton John, Elton John's music, uh, get out there and discover it. It's great. Great stuff. I
Chris:wonder what that would be like. I find it very disturbing. The way you said that is he thinks it's his last concert. That sounds like. I think I'm about to die, so I'm probably not gonna do this anymore. I, that just bothers
Jeff:me. It bothers me too. And I didn't know how old he is. Uh, he's 76, so, OK.
Chris:That's not that old, right? I mean, it's old to be performing and you think about that lifestyle. I could see that, but I don't, it's different to me when I hear that about someone who says, I'm retiring from acting. I'm retiring from, you know, doing concerts, whatever. Compared to, you hear someone talk about retiring from their quote unquote job. Mm-hmm. You know, somebody's gonna retire from their job at 65, be like, Hey, good for you. You know, go off and go off and live your life for 20 years or whatever. Bef, you know? Yeah. Before you actually do die, but, but you have that time, you know, instead of working till you die. But I, I don't know. It, it some, for some reason it seems different to me when you hear something like that. Like, Ooh, I'm giving my last
Jeff:concert and he continues to put out new stuff. Yeah. I was like, it's amazing that you could still be motivated to do that. Yeah. It's quite the opposite. So that these are similar artists, but Billy Joel, Billy Joel hasn't put out an album in like 30 years. He just flat out says, I don't enjoy the writing process. I never have. I don't wanna do it anymore. I have enough money, so what am I gonna do? So he just, he'll go on tour every once in a while, but he's got a standing gig at Madison Square Garden. Mm-hmm. So he lives on Long Island, like two nights a month, two or three nights a month. He flies in a helicopter. From his house in Long Island to Madison Square Garden performs for like two hours and then flies back home. That's what he does. Well, that's what it's all about right there. What a life. I know it. Yeah. I
Chris:wonder. So even doing it like that, how much prep and rehearsal would have to go into that? I don't know. I mean, can you just show up and do it?
Jeff:Just roll out of bed, start seeing an uptown girl. It's like, right. Well, I don't know. Better to get in the shower. A helicopter's about to be here, right? I mean, right. I don't know. That's just, it's sounds like a great life. And you got to have sex with Kristy Brinkley once upon on time. There's that,
Chris:and you posted that picture. She is looking. All right.
Jeff:Still. Yeah, I don't know how that's possible. Good genes. Well, not too worried about it.
Chris:That's all right.
Jeff:Whatever works.
Chris:Oh, it's working.
Jeff:By this point in my life, I know about most political issues and I know where I fall on these issues. And I can make reasonable arguments for why I think the way I do. But this issue that I'm about to bring up has had me conflicted, and I've kind of gone back and forth on it at least a few times, and I think now that I've made up my mind. But honestly, if you wanna try to change my mind in the next couple minutes, you could probably do it. But the issue is transgender athletes. Have you heard about this? Like, yeah. Should a trans woman be able to participate in women's sports or girls sports if it's in high school? Right. And Texas just passed a law while they passed a law two years ago that bans it in high schools and now they've passed a law that's gonna ban it in colleges. And there was an article in the New York Times an Opinion piece recently. By, I'll post this in the episode notes. It was by, um, David French. He is a regular, I know the name. I don't really read his stuff, but he is a regular opinion writer in the New York Times. And the reason I'll post this to the episode notes is it was really thoughtful. I thought it was a good, thoughtful piece. It wasn't the typical platitude you hear from both sides on issues like this, but his. Peace went at, went at it from the legal standpoint, and he talked about Title ix. Title IX was passed back in 1972, and it says you can't discriminate on the basis of sex at any institution that is receiving federal funds, which is gonna be almost a hundred percent of all educational institutions in the country. So it was to give women and girls more opportunities in different programs, and a lot of those programs are athletic programs. So it is a problem then when you have people who are biologically male, even though they might identify as a girl, as a woman, they are biologically different and it is a problem legally speaking for protection in Title IX when they are going over and competing against women. And so the way he phrased it, I, I think I'm to the point now where I'm like, OK, I think he's got a point. It does seem unfair that if somebody is biologically different, biologically superior, that's a scientific fact. Men are gonna be able to jump higher, run faster, run farther, all that stuff. It is unfair if you have that happening. Here's what I don't like. I don't like the people. Many of the people who agree with me on this are people who I disagree on almost everything with politically, right? And they're the Trump supporters and the rabid people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren bro. And that ilk. I don't like being associated with those people, right? So it troubles me from that standpoint, but, What do you think about all this? Change my mind. Well, that I don't
Chris:think I can because that's, that's honestly where I've really always fallen, and I don't, that side is, is is where I always fallen and I, I've never heard anything to change my mind about it. Now I haven't heard a lot. I'm not saying my mind couldn't be changed, but mm-hmm. Exactly what you just said is, the way I've always looked at it is men are inherently typically stronger now. Mm-hmm. You put a bodybuilding woman. Against a man that doesn't do that. Sure, she's gonna be stronger, but we're talking about just naturally occurring, like Right. A man versus a woman is going to be stronger in 90 plus percent of those situations. Yes. And so now, like you say, now I've got a, a woman identifying as a man, a man identifying as a woman, and they're gonna compete in the other sport. Doesn't seem fair if, if I have a, a transgender woman, so born biologically male, however we want to term that mm-hmm. They should inherently be stronger, faster, everything that you said, I don't see where that's fair. That they're gonna compete with other women. Right.
Jeff:What I don't like also, Is many of the people who would say they should not participate in, like a trans woman should not participate in sports against other women. These are also gonna be the same people who support Texas passing the law that doesn't give, doesn't allow gender affirming care for minors. Texas just passed that. Correct. They want other, they don't want protections for transgender people in the workplace and all that. I'm against all that. Transgender people need to be protected. They need anti-discrimination laws passed to protect them. The, the suicide rate among transgender people is off the charts compared to everybody else. So they have, uh, uh, I mean, it's a situation where they need to be protected in the law, but when it comes to this, I think that's, That's where you have to be reasonable with it and, and say it is just not fair. Now, here's the other thing I have a problem with. I never like it when legislatures, whoever it is, start passing bills to correct the problem. That's not a problem in the first place. Exactly.
Chris:We've done a lot of that.
Jeff:Yeah, we've talked about that before, how you're just trying to rile up your base and get them all mad and hopping around like monkeys in a cage and throwing their feces and all that screaming, and you know, that's what you're trying to do. That's the solutions in search of a problem. Right? And so, you know, Greg Abbott tweets that he passed the, or signed the bill into law, you know, restricting gender affirming care for minors. And of course, you know, people who support him. Are just gonna be all over that. They're gonna love it, but is this even a problem? And I haven't heard that. It is like, is it a problem in colleges in Texas that you have a bunch of trans women competing against other women in track and field events or whatever it is? I don't think it's really an issue, but. I don't know. Could be wrong. Maybe
Chris:it is a prophylactic measure
Jeff:from it
Chris:could be. I don't know. But I, I think, you know, just what you were saying, the, the people who typically are going to be against the transgender people participating in these sports, These people do typically identify with those other same ideas is Yes, and And what it is, is they're transphobic across the board. Right? They don't, they don't want to know, hear, see. Believe it exists, whatever, about anything transgender, period. Right. And so should they be able to compete in sports? Absolutely not. Because they shouldn't even exist, is where that idea comes
Jeff:from. Right. And that's, that's an issue. I think it's an overriding issue with so many different topics is Americans generally don't do well when it comes to nuance. And, and the intricacies of laws, they just don't. So you're right, they jump from, no, you shouldn't have transgender athletes in sports competing with the opposite sex. And so therefore, yeah, like you said, they shouldn't exist. Why are you just be a man? Right? What's wrong with you? You know? Yeah.
Chris:Since you brought it up, why do they even, why are they even here?
Jeff:Right? Yeah. So yeah. Americans just generally don't do well with. Well, as I said, the nuances of all this stuff. Yeah. Well, it,
Chris:it requires more thought. That's what it is critical. So many, many people are, yeah. So many people are just black and white in the thinking and it's, it's this or that. It's gotta be one way or the other. There is no middle ground. There's no gray area. And, and this is one of those where there's a huge gray area. Yep. Now I'll say from, I mean this is a, this is a political issue, but I think a lot of it stems from religious issues as well. And we've talked about religion on here. I think a lot of those, I, that's where a lot of those ideas are coming from too, is mm-hmm. Because people also, I think, have a hard time distinguishing between transgender versus gay. So, Oh, I know. Yeah, that's not the same thing. Yeah. Right. And they go, well, gay is wrong. Well then of course transgender is wrong. Cause what's the difference? And you want to be this other, you want to be with the, you know, if you're a man that wants to become a woman, well if you still want to be with women, does that not make you a lesbian? I mean, it is just too much. It
Jeff:blows people's surrogates. They can't, that's a good way to put it. They can't handle it. And how do you respond to somebody? How do you respond to somebody when, when they're making fun of the whole situation and they say shit like, I think I'll identify as a dog today. That's allowed in today's society, isn't it? How the fuck am I supposed to respond to such a stupid statement like that, but I feel like I need to respond.
Chris:Yeah, I, I don't know how to respond to that either because. That's that strawman argument, you know? Yeah. It's the, I'm gonna come up with something that's so stupidly ridiculous that you don't know how to respond. And I've just turned, I've just turned that argument into something that it wasn't. Yeah. However, however, this is, this is the thing is, OK, let's, let's go back to the lack of nuance and the black and white people look at. Men and women as diametrically, I'm gonna say opposed different. OK, you're a man or you're a woman as though that's binary. The fact is, and I'm not even gonna get into the, the chromosome aspect of it or anything, but the fact is everybody is on that spectrum somewhere. Mm-hmm. You, you've got, uh, as a male, you've got some feminine tendencies. And some have more than others, and as a female, you've got some male tendencies and some have more than others and whatever. So then we start getting down to, well, what were you born as sexually in terms of genitals? I mean, you know, we really get down to that. Yeah. So just recognizing that everybody's on that spectrum. It's like we're talking about. Going back and forth on that spectrum between kind of two, I'm gonna say two sides of the same coin, essentially, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah, we're all human beings. Yeah. And so then it's like, well, which side of the spectrum do I tend toward versus the other to bring up, oh, I identify as a dog. Where are we on that? That's not on the
Jeff:spectrum. I, I know. Yeah. That's, yeah. I,
Chris:I mean, what do we have? We're mammals, but that's it. That's a, a dog is not the other side of the coin for
Jeff:me. Right. And that whole thing about, and, and you're right, there's so many religious overtones here, but the idea that God made you either a boy or a girl, Either one. OK. Well what about a hermaphrodite? What about that? Yeah, what do you, what? Where do you stand on that? And with gay people, like they think people choose to be gay, but they don't deny that, that people are having a sexual attraction to the same sex. So what is that? Are they flawed? Like what happened? What's going on in their brain? And then you say, well, don't you believe that God created you? So what's going on there? It reminds me of Lenny Bruce. Lenny, another famous comedian, but Lenny Bruce said, if you're having like an attraction to somebody, or you think your body is dirty or whatever, well shouldn't you blame the manufacturer, which is God in their eyes. Right? You're flawed. Yeah. So send it back, you know? I don't want a refund Recall. Yeah. It just, oh my God. You can go on and on with that kind of stuff, but again, that's nuance and intricacies and that's not gonna play well with a lot of them. Not all, but a lot. No,
Chris:it's not.
Jeff:OK. You sent me a video recently and I figured I'd throw this in here for this episode. Let me ask you this. Do you have a starting point, like when you go out to eat a sit down restaurant? Mm-hmm. Do you have a starting point where you're like, OK, this is the percentage I'm gonna tip, or do you, does it vary?
Chris:Starting point? My starting point used to be 15%. My starting point now is more like 20%, but that's assuming they were good. I will def, I mean, I will certainly tip less than 20% if the service wasn't good, but for good service, I will at least tip
Jeff:20%. I'm like you. I used to tip 15%. Then I learned what waiters and waitresses go through the shit they have to put up with, and the fact that they're making$2 and something cents an hour plus tips. So now it's standard for me, 20%. But I will absolutely, I'm like you. Tip less than that, uh, if the service is bad, but yeah, 20%, and I've tipped more than 20% when yeah, they're doing like a really good job. Um, really
Chris:good job. Or a nicer place
Jeff:too. That too, yeah, true. Or if she's attractive. Uh, sometimes I'll tip more than that.
Chris:Oh, yeah. That can be all right. Yeah. I've never given a
Jeff:guy more money for that though. No, absolutely not. So yeah, I will tip more if she's attractive, which is pretty pathetic because what am I gonna get out of it? Right.
Chris:I know. I'm just like, well, this is the best I can do, so I'll do that. It's the
Jeff:best idea I've come up with. It's like honking at a construction site.
Chris:Yep. That's about right. I'll round up too. You know, I had like a, yeah, let's say the tip would be eight, maybe nine, and then I'll be like, OK, well they were good, so I'll just give them 10. Yeah. Something like
Jeff:that. Now do you tip, like when you go get a drink, like I know you don't drink coffee, but you go to a place like Starbucks. Mm-hmm. And there do you tip. There. So they'll have the, the little jar of tips. But now when you sign your receipt, and this was part of the video you sent me, they turned the little thing around and you're expected to tip like you can choose, no, I don't want tip, but then they have, you know, 10%, 20%, whatever. Do you right in that situation? Not
Chris:ever. I don't ever. Because I've never been in a situation like that where I felt that what they were doing was a tip worthy thing. Like I know that those people, they're not like waiters and waitresses who are making, you know, two something an hour. They're, they're making, you know, six, eight,$10 an hour, whatever to do that job. Yeah. And what am I tipping you for?
Jeff:I was always the same way. I never put money in the jar. But since they've started the electronic thing, I put my card in, they turn the screen around, whatever. I feel pressured now that they're gonna see that. And what if I put no tip? What are they gonna do? They spit. What if they're having a shitty day? And I just sent'em over the edge and they decide to spit my. My drink. Like that concerns me. Yeah. So I feel pressured now to tip, which I don't like. I don't like being pressured. I hadn't
Chris:really thought of it that way. I see that for sure. But yeah, see that's where the whole idea of it just pisses me off. Yeah. Because I shouldn't feel pressured to tip in a non. Tip kinda situation. Exactly. It's all gotten so outta hand, like we're supposed to tip everybody for everything. Well, I don't get tipped for my job. You don't get tipped for your job. Why don't we start turning an iPad around all people?
Jeff:Hey, maybe I should put a tip jar at the end of your class in my classroom. Yes. Yes. You ought to
Chris:do that just to see what happens. The
Jeff:biggest tippers get an A. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be a good, uh, like a sociological experiment. It would, like how many people are actually gonna tip be great. You also might get fired. Yeah. Yeah. That's no good. I had a George Costanza moment recently with a situation like that. Um, oh. It was when we went to Dallas, we were staying in the hotel. Mm-hmm. Chris and I slept in separate beds. If anybody's wondering,
Chris:well
Jeff:obviously I went to a coffee shop that was close by and this girl behind the counter, like it was kind of busy and she was moving here, moving there. She seemed pretty overworked and I have some cash on me. I usually don't even have cash on me. I had some, a few bills on me and I was like, I'm gonna tip, I'm gonna put money in the tip jar for her. And I swear to God the moment I took it outta my wallet and got set to put it in the jar, she turned around and was making somebody's drink. So what am I supposed to do that sucks? I wanted, sucks to know that I'm tipping her. So I just hung out there for a little bit and then when she turned around, yeah. I put the money in, but yeah. There you go, George.
Chris:All over. Or you could have asked her for change and then you can put it all in
Jeff:there. Ooh, that's good. Hey, I want to tip you, but I, yeah. Do you have any change? That's good. Well, oh, well,
Chris:no, I meant like change. Change. So she adhere it going to, oh, she'd hear it,
Jeff:but there's, drop it in that too. Coin by coin. Did you hear that? You
Chris:know, like when. When Jerry said, well, you're not in the habit of giving money to the blind, then he said, not
Jeff:bills. Right. They're not even gonna know. Mm-hmm. Anyway, my preference would be like they do in Europe, which is you don't tip, it's all included. Or tipping is really, really, really rare. But yeah, for the most part, you're not tipping. Yeah, I agree. I would love that. I wouldn't have to tip. Waiters, waitresses. I wouldn't feel pressured when I'm ordering her a drink. Uber, whoever else the fuck we're supposed to tip now, just end it. Yeah, just include it.
Chris:Well, and that's just it. Sometimes I don't even know like this, this particular thing or that particular thing. Am I supposed to be tipping on this or not? Right? Especially when it's things that maybe we haven't had in the past, and I know like person that cut my hair always tip them, but then I go, why they're not working. They're not the. You know,$2 and something an hour waiter, a waitress, right? I'm already given you however much it was to cut my hair at that given time. Why do you tip them?
Jeff:All right. There you go. That is another episode of Subpar Talks. If you like this stuff, then you are our kind of people, and this is your kind of podcast, and you should absolutely, without it doubt. Subscribe to us, follow us on whatever platform you listen to podcasts on. That way you're gonna get new episodes every single Tuesday when they drop. And while you are there, go ahead and rate us if you could. We would be really happy if you'd give us five stars and while you're there, go ahead and type something. It doesn't matter what you type, but the way these apps work is if you type something, it makes it easier for people to discover the show. We have a website that is Subpar Talks dot com. You can email us there. You can leave us a voicemail. If you wanna make suggestions for topics we should cover on future episodes, please go ahead and do that. We are on social media on Twitter. We are at Subpar Talks on Facebook. We are Subpar Talks. If you wanna follow our personal Twitter accounts, we would welcome that as well. On there, I am at@independentjeff
Chris:and I am at Chris Bradford
Jeff:tx, and we have some other social media links on our website. You can check those out. And last, but never, ever least share@subpartalks on social media. Get the word out to your friends and family and colleagues and whoever else you encounter. On a daily basis, when you tip your waiter 20%, tell'em about the podcast you just discovered. And they may look at you like you have a couple of heads, but whatever. At least you're getting the word out, you're doing your part and we would really appreciate it. Alright, final thoughts, comments? I don't even know what we talked about. I know we just got done with tipping, but other than that we covered a lot. It's another one of those episodes. It is a lot coming at you. All right. That is an episode wrap and we will be back next week. Until then, so long.