We hear a lot about the insanity defense in murder cases, but the reality is that it’s hardly ever used and even when it is, it’s hardly every successful. But what does it mean to be “insane?” This week we look at a current case juxtaposed with the assassination attempt of Ronald Reagan, and learn how the insanity defense changed in this country. Also, what are the most widely read books of all time? Chris had the unenviable task of venturing into a government office, and we end up with some questions.
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We hear a lot about the insanity defense in murder cases, but the reality is that it’s hardly ever used and even when it is, it’s hardly every successful. But what does it mean to be “insane?” This week we look at a current case juxtaposed with the assassination attempt of Ronald Reagan, and learn how the insanity defense changed in this country. Also, what are the most widely read books of all time? Chris had the unenviable task of venturing into a government office, and we end up with some questions.
1. Topics
2. Additional Resources
3. Merchandise/Support the Show
4. Contact Us/Follow Us/Rate/Subscribe
New episodes every week!
Listen, rate, follow, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts!
Follow us:
5. Credits
This week, a gruesome crime, the most widely-read books. Chris gets in touch with the government, and more questions. Welcome to Subpar Talks. Hey everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff.
Chris:And I'm Chris.
Jeff:Thank you again for joining us and here we go with our standard disclaimer, listener discretion is advised. We're gonna curse from time to time and depending on the episode, we will touch on some mature subject matter. So if that's not your thing, then perhaps this podcast is not for you. But for everybody else, settle in because here we go with this week's topics. I came across this story, I. It is out of Wisconsin, green Bay, Wisconsin. There is a woman, her name is Taylor Shani. I don't know if she changed her last name or if that's actually her name. Shani Shani. Ss C H A. Business. She Business. Okay. I don't know, but anyway, that's her name. She and her boyfriend Chad, were going to engage in some, I would say, pretty kinky sex. Mm-hmm. She put a dog collar on him. Right. And she said she was gonna walk him around like a dog. So he was gonna be the dog outside and, uh, It's probably lovely this time of year in Green Bay, Wisconsin, maybe so. Oh, that's true. No, I think, I think they were naked at the time. Okay. So hopefully they stayed indoors. But anyway, she put it really tight on his neck and she said she blacked out. And when she came to, he was all purple and bleeding from the mouth and she said, To the cops, because as you'll find out, she's gonna get arrested. She said basically he was too far gone at that point. He's purple and bleeding from the mouth. So she said, I might as well just kill him. So put him
Chris:out of his
Jeff:misery, right? Logical choice, right? Mm-hmm. So she went to her, uh, kitchen and grabbed some knives and started stabbing him. Uh, damn. Like, I think to make sure that he was dead if he wasn't already, but you know, that'll do the job. And she wasn't done with him yet. She decided that she needed to dispose of the body. So yes you do. If you're gonna try to get away with this, you're gonna have to figure out what to do. And she figured the best thing to do was take the knives that she got from the kitchen and just start cutting. So she starts cutting his head off. Yeah, she's crazy. Yeah. Okay. Hold onto that thought'cause that's really what I'm, where I'm going with this. She cut his head off, but she said doing that got her excited and made her feel happy. So she figured the next logical thing to do was to start sucking his dick. She told the detective,
Chris:See, this goes back to our episode where he talked about consent. Okay.
Jeff:Like hold onto that thought too. Yeah. Okay. She said it got her all excited, got her happy, and uh, so she started sucking his dick while she's cutting her head off. She said to the detective in the interrogation room, I was quote, sucking and cutting at the same time. Oh my God. She's multitasking.
Chris:Yeah. You know what that'd be? I mean, I don't wanna picture it too much, but that'd be tough
Jeff:to do. It would, yeah. It's talent for sure. Yeah. So in the, uh, interrogation room also, she was kind of smiling. She told the detective quote, you'll have fun trying to find all the body parts. She put his dick and head in a bucket. She put another part in the crockpot. She took out all his organs and scattered him around the house. What the fuck? I know. So she gets charged with first degree murder, as you would expect, and at trial, when they play the interrogation, uh, video and she starts talking about the decapitation, she starts laughing in court. She was laughing when they were playing this video. Wow. The prosecution brought up that she had Googled Jeffrey Dahmer. Mm-hmm. And that wasn't it, they brought up some specific terms. I found these hilarious that she had Googled, and it was not too long before the, the murder happened. Uh, she Googled Satanic Bible, flaming Pentagram, Satan, Jeffrey Dahmer. So I already covered that. Something called Jeff Boy Rd. I, I don't know what that is. Uh, she googled the definition for cadaver. Seems like she would know what that is. Definit, but yeah. That's what you just created, right? Exactly. Uh, she googled Jeffrey Dahmer's butt and the last thing she Googled was Jeffrey Dahmer walking all sexy into court. So, Wow. She's got some kind of weird fascination with Jeffrey Dahmer. So I have so many questions.
Chris:Okay. But I think they need to be looking at her for other things that have happened, because I just can't imagine, I, I can't imagine doing all of that. But then, You get excited by it. You acknowledge it like you tell it, then you're laughing in court about it. This is someone who is okay with all of it, like not fazed. How, how does a, a normal person could not do all of that and not be fazed
Jeff:by it. Okay. I was thinking the same thing because this is not, This can't be the first time you do this kind of stuff, right? Like you don't just No, do this. It's the first time you've done anything of that nature. The detective asked her if she had ever done anything like this before, and she said she liked to be choked during sex, and she liked to choke her partner during sex, but as far as I know, they don't have any evidence that she's done anything like this before. So she pleaded not guilty. By reason of insanity. Okay. Okay. Well, so this is really where this is, is going, although I had to cover those facts. Oh, she also stuffed a dildo into his mouth after he was dead. Wow. For what that's worth. Okay, so poor bastard. Yeah, she was found guilty. All right. Now she pled guilty. Or not guilty by reason of insanity, but she's found guilty. But Wisconsin has this weird thing. I don't think this is normal. I know this is not the way it works in Texas, but they found her guilty. Okay, so you are responsible for the murder, but now they're gonna have like a separate trial to determine whether she is insane. If she's insane, she goes to a mental hospital. If she's not insane, then she's going to prison for the rest of her life. Okay? In most instances, somebody pleads not guilty by reason of insanity, like that is the verdict that is rendered, uh, either right? Guilty, not guilty by reason of insanity or guilty. That's just the verdict. And then you determine what the sentence is gonna be. But evidently, Wisconsin does it differently. Okay? So, I looked up the definition for insanity in Wisconsin. Just knowing what you know from what I've told you, and obviously there are more facts, but just knowing what you know now, tell me if you think she's insane. Okay, here it is. A person is not responsible for criminal conduct if at the time of such conduct as a result of mental disease or defect. The person lacks substantial capacity either to appreciate the wrongfulness of his or her conduct, or conform his or her conduct to the requirements of the law. So either you didn't know that it was wrong, or you could have known that it was wrong, but your mental disease or defect compelled you to do it. You could not conform to the requirements of the law. So, You, you had no control.
Chris:I hate to say it, but yeah, I could see that for her because it's just so, all of it's so drastic and to think that she thinks she's gonna hide the body, but clearly she's not doing a good job of hiding the body. And can you imagine the mess from that? You hide the body. And then
Jeff:what? And then what? Yeah. She told the, the detectives, you know, his blood was going everywhere. Well, yeah, duh. But then what the hell are you gonna do? You put part of his body in a crockpot. What are you gonna do? And his dick and head are in a bucket. Like, what's your long term strategy there?
Chris:Yeah. See, I, I don't know. I, I can just, I, if I were to imagine something like that happening, like, okay, this is a sex night. Gone very wrong is, I don't think my, I don't think, my first thought is, well, I better cut'em up.
Jeff:I know. Yeah. Yeah. The sex night went wrong when the dog collar appeared like, well,
Chris:that's that's true. Okay. And the other thing that I thought right back at the very beginning, you said she put the collar on him, but then she passed out. She blacked out. Yeah. So how did that happen?
Jeff:I don't know.
Chris:I was thinking she put the collar on him and he blacked out.
Jeff:Well, I guess they both blacked out together, but she blacked out. But she's, well, that's what she says. I mean, we'll never know. We have to go on what she's told the detective. Maybe he, when he felt the collar getting too tight, maybe he started choking her and she passed out. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. So
Chris:there's no mention of any drugs or anything
Jeff:in any of this. It seems like I might've seen something about that. They had taken meth. Uh, or, but I don't know if that had been in the past or were they on meth when this happened? Mm-hmm. That certainly is gonna complicate things if they had taken meth before this. Yeah. And I'm not gonna, I don't shame anybody for what they're into, as long as you're not, you know, doing something illegal, chopping somebody
Chris:up. Well, I think we should
Jeff:shame him for that. You're not molesting kids or. Fucking animals or anything like that. So if they're in into dog collars and whatever, that's fine. But Jesus Christ, make sure you trust the person you're with. No
Chris:kidding. Damn.
Jeff:Okay, well, I'm gonna be interested to see what the verdict is here, what the jury comes back with. Yeah, I've never
Chris:heard of anything like that, of having two
Jeff:verdicts. Right. It seems very strange. So she was found guilty of his murder. We'll see what happens with that. And here's what I was getting to, and you alluded to it earlier. She was also found guilty of sexual assault for sucking his dick after he was dead. So Wisconsin is one of those states where you can still be charged with sexual assault of a corpse. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I
Chris:was also thinking. Is there, could she be charged with like desecration of a corpse? Is that something too, where not only did you kill them, but you chop'em up?
Jeff:Yeah. There was some other charge that, I don't remember the exact wording, but it, it was that, yeah. For cutting a, a body up. Yeah. This cracked me up too. The jury deliberated for all of 30 minutes.
Chris:They walked in, said, let's vote. Yep.
Jeff:They basically all went to the bathroom and they said Alright. Took
Chris:them 29 minutes to fill
Jeff:out the paperwork. Yeah, it did. Uh, can you imagine if you were a defendant though, and the jury's been out for 30 minutes? No, you're fucked. Yep.
Chris:Damn.
Jeff:Okay. So really the reason I'm bringing this up is that thing with the sexual assault,'cause we talked about that before. Uh, can you be found guilty of rape after somebody's dead? If you, you know, rape a corpse, fuck a corpse. Is that rape? It depends on the state, but John Hinkley is where insanity defense really changed in this country because John Hinkley. For people who don't know, he was the one who shot Ronald Reagan back in 1981, and he pled not guilty by reason of insanity. And the definition was different in a lot of states back then, and you didn't have to prove as much as a defendant to show the jury that you were insane. And in DC where this happened, where Hinkley was on trial. The government actually had to prove, like when somebody pled guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity, the government had to prove that they were not insane. So the burden of proof was on the government to, to prove that. And, and that's a lot harder for them to do. And in that case, the jury said the government didn't meet his burden. So he is insane. And so that's why Hinkley was sent to a. Mental hospital for decades, and he's out finally now. Right. But so that's interesting. That really changed things because a lot of people were upset at that verdict. They said he should be in prison and he is in a hospital. And so a lot of states and including Congress at the federal level, uh, put tougher restrictions on, on the ability to plead insanity. So, okay. It's interesting what happened after that. Yeah,
Chris:it is. I, that's interesting that you brought that up because that's exactly what I was gonna ask about. Whenever you hear not guilty by reason of Insanity, I always think of him because that was one of the first times I ever heard something like that. So was he charged federally or
Jeff:by DC It was. It was federal.'cause it happened in dc Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I would think
Chris:being the president anyway, not
Jeff:being Oh, that's true. Yeah.
Chris:So I wonder if that had anything to do with it too, that, you know, it was one trial then instead of guilty and then is it Yeah, an insanity.
Jeff:Yeah. So yeah, they just came back with a, a not guilty by reason of insanity. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris:Well, that's fascinating. It is the, the whole thing scares the shit outta me. Like, well, to think that there are people out walking around that I know they could have done that, or they're capable of doing it if they haven't done it already. Right.
Jeff:It's very scary. So we'll see what happens with, uh, Taylor business. I gotta find out more about that name. That is weird. But anyway, there you go. Whoa.
Chris:Her business is
Jeff:in trouble, I'd say. So this is the summer and I tend to have some free time in the summer, a lot freer than I do, you know, in the fall or spring. And uh, I tend to do more reading in the summer. I've, there are book, I think we've talked about it before, like there are books that we did not read in in high school that we were supposed to read. We just got the Cliff's notes, said, fuck it. Right. And I've been kinda like, I wish I had read those books, but I don't particularly want to read those books. I just wish I had read them. But I tell you in the last few weeks I've kind of gone back on that. Tell me if you've read any of these books. These are classic books. So you're doing some high school reading? I am, yeah. I'm getting caught up. GEDs right around the corner. Flowers for Algernon. Have you ever read that? No. I could
Chris:probably just do a blanket no on anything you could ask, but
Jeff:we'll try The Great Gatsby. I did read that. You did, did okay. I did. Do you remember it? Yeah. Do you remember anything from it? I really don't.
Chris:It was in high school. Um, yeah. I, I mean, I barely do. Yeah. I've seen pieces of the movie, but I've never even seen the whole movie
Jeff:all the way through. I kind of, so there's a movie from, uh, I don't know, I think it's like six or seven years ago with, uh, Leonardo DiCaprio. Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah. And I'd like to see that. Just see how it compares to the book. The only one I saw
Chris:was, uh, Robert
Jeff:Redford. The Catcher in the Rye. You ever read that one? No. Okay. Anyway, have you read all of these recently? Yeah. Yeah.
Chris:Wow. You're just
Jeff:flying through. I know. I blew through Flowers for Algernon and the Great Gatsby's. Really short, great Gatsby's, like mm-hmm. Like it's not a, I wouldn't even call it a novel. It's like a novella. It's a little novel. Yeah, no one flowers for Algernon real quick, like I, I didn't really know what it was about. I read the thing on the back of the book, but I didn't get it. But it's a guy who is mentally challenged, but this book is written in the 1960s, so they call him retarded and use all kinds of offensive terms like that, but, They have done experiments on a mouse, and the mouse's intelligence has improved, and so they choose this character, the guy for the same type of experiment, and they do surgery on him, and he slowly gets smarter and smarter. His IQ goes up and up and up and up, and later on the mouth starts exhibiting problems like he's, he's regressing. And so now you're reading the book, you're wondering, is the same thing gonna happen to him? And I'll just leave it at that to not give anybody spoilers, but it's a really, really good book. I enjoyed it. The Great Gatsby, we talked about that. The Catcher in the Rye, I found there's a lot of it at, that's funny. It's about a SS year old kid. Yeah. Who he. Basically has a problem with everybody. Yeah. I got a lot of problems with you people, but just some of the, the things that he does, the things that he says are funny. Uh, but it's just about him. It's set in New York City. Uh, it's from 1961, I think, and he's just, it just. Goes through the different people he meets and his thoughts and feelings about people. And anyway, just from that, you think, well, what the hell? Why would I read that? But it's, it's good. Could you identify? Well, I was gonna say, you know, I got a lot of problems with you people. Yeah. I could identify with a lot of what he experiences with people, not to his level. Yeah. But definitely. Anyway, speaking of Catcher in the Rye, when I was. Reading about that. Like what is this? I saw that it was one of the most widely read books of all time. Mm. And so, and I also knew that it had been banned, like schools had tried to ban it'cause there's Yep. Cursing in it. And it got a bad reputation because Mark David Chapman, who shot John Lennon had a copy of Catcher in the Rye in his pocket.
Chris:I knew somebody did. Yeah. Did they find that having to do with Hinkley
Jeff:also? So that rings a bell. Um, I think Hinkley might've had a copy on him or,'cause that was right after, that was March of 81. Lennon was shot in December of 80. Yep. So, yeah, that might've influenced him. It seems like he might have. So
Chris:the movie Conspiracy Theory, is it theory or theories?
Jeff:Theory, I or I think it's theory.
Chris:Yeah. So the main character in there, you know, they were doing all of these, uh, psychological tests. On these people. Yeah. Was like a, a rogue government, institution, department, whatever that was doing all these tests. But then, yeah, they don't have the memory of that, but one of the things that they quote programmed them to do, Was anywhere that they were, was to go buy a copy of Catcher in the Rye. I didn't remember that. And based on the I S B N of the book, uh, they would track where these people
Jeff:were. Oh, that was the
Chris:whole thing in the movie. And yeah, they used
Jeff:that book for that. Interesting. Yeah, so I read that was the most, one of the most widely read books of all time. And so that got me thinking. Like, what are the most read books of all time? So, you know, I love top 10 lists. So here we go. And this will be quick, but uh, there's a writer, James Chapman. I don't know who that is. I got this from Business Insider, but James Pat, uh, Chapman compiled a list based on the bestselling books of the past 50 years. I'll go into sending order here. Tell me the ones you've read
Chris:that I can go back as far as I would think it would
Jeff:50 years, right? Yeah. So I saw some lists that had like a Tale of Two Cities, which is from 1859 at the top of the list, but they couldn't track sales back that long ago. It was like there's no record of it. So they have to estimate all that. But these are definitive figures. So number 10 is The Diary of Anne Frank. Did you read that? Part of it. Yeah. I was the same. I was supposed to. Yeah. Uh, number nine's a book called Sink and Grow Rich from 1937. Yeah. Do you know about it?
Chris:I know the book. I haven't read
Jeff:it, but I know, yeah. I'd never heard of it. Uh, number eight, gone With the Win. Okay.
Chris:Definitely did not read that. I've seen
Jeff:the movie. I haven't even seen the movie. Well
Chris:get your popcorn and it's so long. Yeah, I mean, the thing that stood out to me was, I remember when it came out on video, which was a really big deal because Yeah, this was like when, I don't even know if you could rent videos, then it was like you had to buy it and it cost a fortune. Mm-hmm. And it was on either two or three. Videotapes. Jesus.'cause it's that long. Yeah. Two definitely. Maybe
Jeff:three. Yeah. It's really long. Uh, we just saw Oppenheimer and that movie's three hours long. Is it really? Yeah. Three hours is too long for a movie. That's a lot. Yeah. It's like Titanic. Yeah. That's too long. Way too long. Um, so no, I've never read Gone With the Wind, never seen the movie. It looks depressing. I have zero interest in it. Wasn't Schindler's List about that long? Yeah, I think it was little long. About three hours. Yeah. Probably one you have to make out during it. That's a lot of making out. It is. Well, especially if you start when the, well, they started early. Yeah. Okay. So some of these on the list are series, so number seven is the Twilight Series. Okay. That's, is that vampire shit? Is that what that is? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Number six is the Da Vinci Code. I've read that. I haven't, that was a good book. You know what Da Vinci means?
Chris:From Vinci. I saw that movie and it confused the hell outta me. I got kind of bored
Jeff:with it. Well, okay, so I read the book, blew through the book'cause it is really good. It's a good page, Turner. And then I saw the movie and I remember thinking after the movie was over, if you had not read the book and you just watched the movie, you're gonna be thinking, what the hell was all that? Like it just. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Thank you. Okay. So I can totally see that. Yeah. Well that makes me feel a little better. I thought he was with them.
Chris:Yeah, exactly. What the fuck just happened and why
Jeff:number five is The Alchemist.
Chris:I've heard a lot about that. I wanted to read it'cause I've heard
Jeff:about it a lot. Yeah. Follows a young shepherd in his journey to the pyramids of Egypt after having a recurring dream of finding a treasure there. That's all I know about it. So anyway, well, maybe I don't wanna read it. I know number five on the list, number four is Lord of the Ring Series. Nope. I got dragged to a Lord of the Rings movie once and holy hell, I didn't know if it was ever gonna end, thought I was gonna die sitting there watching it. I don't get into any of that stuff anyway. But God, it was long. I don't either. Number three is the Harry Potter series. I was
Chris:gonna say that's got to be on this
Jeff:list. Yeah. Uh, number two is quotations from Mao. Also known as Mao's Little Red Book. Never heard of that one. I've seen that in bookstores a lot. It has sold an estimated 820 million copies. Wow.
Chris:Heard of
Jeff:the person, not the book. They probably made everybody in China buy one. You know, I had a Marxist professor in, in grad school Really? Yeah, he, he told me that I was bound by the chains of capitalism.
Chris:You specifically?
Jeff:Yeah. So it was like during break or something and he was talking to me and yeah. Asked me where I lived and, and I was about 45 minutes away from the school. He said, you drive here every night? And I said, yeah. He said, you pay for your own gas. I was like, yeah, pay for my own gas. Said, did you have to take out loans to attend here? I said, yeah. He said, why isn't there public transportation from where you live to here? Why are you required to, uh, you know, maintain your car and get gas and, and there's no reliable public transportation, and why are you having to pay to go to school? You're gonna have to pay these loans back with interest. And I felt like, I felt like, remember Elaine dated the communist? And he starts talking to Kramer. He says, Kramer, I have some literature in my car that will change your whole way of thinking. He said, talk to me, baby. He was all excited about it. That's what I felt like.'cause the way he put it, I was like, yeah, what the fuck am I doing? Maybe I am bound by the chains. Yeah, yeah. Was he wearing khaki clothing? A lot of bland, drab clothing. Yeah. And then number one, Uh, the most violent of all the books, the Bible. Yep. No surprise, right? No.
Chris:On our best of episode, you, you had the clip of, uh, where the number of people killed in the Bible had been summed up. Oh yeah. And it did not in, and it did not include the flood, right?
Jeff:Yeah.
Chris:What was it? 3 million I think. Not including the flood. And so we have no idea how many that
Jeff:is. Right. Way more than that at the time. Yeah. So that reminds me, and, and lastly, I talked about the scourge. That is locust, the, the locust right now, you know, yelling in the trees and all that. You know, when the, in the Bible, when the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, and God sends Moses to try to get him out, and Moses warns Pharaoh that, you know, if you don't, then there's gonna be all these plagues, right? So God does this and does that a plague? There's a plague, a locust. That's what made me think of it. Mm-hmm. And then the last plague is, mm-hmm. If you didn't put lamb's blood on your doorframe or on your door, whatever, then God was gonna kill the, the, was it the firstborn in the family? Firstborn, I think. I think that's what it was. And somebody, this shows you how brainwashed you are when you're a little kid learning this stuff. I recently saw somebody reference that and say, why didn't God just kill Pharaoh? Why did he kill the, why did he kill the kids? Just kill Pharaoh. Wouldn't that solve the problem anyway, you would think. Yeah. So yeah. Talk about violence killing kids. God had
Chris:to, uh, he had to make several goes at it to try to get things right. He had to kill all the first people and try it again.
Jeff:Right? But he doesn't make mistakes, right? He's infallible.
Chris:So, uh, I had to go to a, a government office today, uhoh, and yeah, I, I feel sorry for myself whenever I have to go to a government office for whatever I. Um, because, well, you know, I mean those are just, uh, cliche jokes of having to go to the D M V or something like that.
Jeff:Lepper Colony. Yeah,
Chris:exactly. Well, when I got there today, you know, I quickly realized that while I feel sorry for myself, I feel more sorry for the workers that are there.
Jeff:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Chris:Because I get to go in, do whatever I gotta do and leave. And there's never, I mean, whatever you're doing at any government office is obligatory. It's not like you want to be there, you're having to do whatever it happens to be. Yep. So you want to get in, get out, get on with your life kind of thing. But those workers, I mean all day, every day, day after day, and. Not only the job that they're doing has got to be crazy monotonous, but more so I think about the people they're having to deal with. I mean, we talk about that on here all the time. It's just the average stupidity of people. Well, I get in there and the, the average stupidity. Walked right in.
Jeff:So I walk in
Chris:the door and right in front of me, I mean like four, four steps ahead probably. There's a, a computer kiosk that asks you to sign in and it asks you on the screen, you know, what are you here for? Have you done such and such online? Yes. Yes. And it prints out a ticket for you with a number. Um, I'm standing there waiting. I, I'm at one of the windows waiting, you know, getting help at the time, and some person walks in and they try to go straight to the window. Mm-hmm. And the lady says, oh, you need to sign in. And they said, oh, where do I do that? Mm-hmm. It's like, Right in front of your fucking face where you walked
Jeff:in. Can you imagine how many times she has to say that on a daily basis?
Chris:I can't. And I, I, that's exactly what I thought when I heard that. Like, oh my God, how many times are you having to tell people this? And, and I mean, okay, it's a touch screen, like answered questions. But I've got to imagine that some people can't manage to get through that either,
Jeff:right? Oh yeah. I'm sure they have to have people help'em. Yeah. Yeah. And we've talked about this before, how when you work with the public and you've done that, and I've done that, I'm talking about a job where you are gonna interact with everyday average people. It really tells you a lot about people. But yeah, if you're working in a government office like that, it's on a whole other level because everybody has to go there like. The, the jobs that we've worked where you're dealing with the public, you're dealing with largely people who have chosen to be there. You know? Exactly. But everybody's gotta go to a government office at some point. So you really are dealing with, man, some stupid people. Yeah,
Chris:and likely people who don't wanna be there, you know, not only did they not have the choice, but they may really not want to. I mean, you could be having to go there for some unpleasant reasons, right? You know it true. You are paying fees, additional taxes, you know, who knows what going in those places. And yeah, seriously, as bad as you can feel to have to go. Do it yourself. I just had to change my attitude and go, wow, I'm just thankful that I'm not the one who's working here.
Jeff:I wonder how much they get paid. Not enough. Not nearly
Chris:enough. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Not nearly
Jeff:enough. And here's another thing, and, and not to get political, although I guess this is political, but fuck it. I'm bringing it up anyway. People who say they want small government, small government. Mm-hmm. I'm for small government, and then they complain when they have to go to the D M V or some other government office and wait forever because there's only one person behind the counter or something. It's like, what? This is what you asked for, is it not? This is small government. You know, we could pay a little bit more and hire somebody else, but this is what you asked for, so this is what you get.
Chris:Yeah. I was, I was lucky today, and it was near closing time too, but there were only two people ahead of me, and they got called quickly, so then I did too. I was literally in and out of there in like 10 minutes. But yeah, that's a crapshoot because I could've been there an hour.
Jeff:And I will say this of the times that I've been in a government office, I'm sure there are exceptions, but they know what they're doing and mm-hmm. They're helpful. Like they might not be happy, but yeah, they're, they know what they're doing and, and No,
Chris:you're right, they do. I've run into some bad attitudes. But see, that's the thing, like what did they just encounter right before I got here? And maybe that's why they have a bad attitude because I probably would too.
Jeff:Yeah. Somebody who smells. Skin's falling off or something, or the breath stinks. Yeah. They don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and they're trying to navigate who knows what.
Chris:Yeah. You just, you can't imagine what they run into. That's why I, I mean, I, I typically think, you know, dealing with people in public that I'm at least decent for sure. Maybe. More on the pleasant side, but I think especially when I go there, it's like, look, I want them to help me. I want this to go as quickly and as smoothly as possible. Yeah. And I don't know what they just encountered, so I feel like I'm almost, I'm matter of fact, but almost nicer than normal. Like Yeah. Oh yeah. If I can kind of smooth, smooth your day over and, and yep. You know, let's do what we gotta do
Jeff:and move on. You mentioned average person a while ago. Every time I hear that term, I think of George Carlin. He said, think about how stupid the average person is, and then consider that half the population's dumber than that.
Chris:Yeah, well I got another theory on that or, or kind of an extrapolation, is when you look at averages, you know that's the average of everybody, but there are some extremely intelligent people out there. Yeah. So it's cute. There's some extremely dumb people out there. Yeah. So I'm thinking that that average is probably brought up. By those extremely smart people. Yeah. And there's probably more than half of the people that are
Jeff:really stupid. Right? Yeah. The Einstein's among us who are walking around, they really skew the average. Yep.
Chris:So we're gonna change gears here for a second and go back to something that we did many episodes ago. I don't remember how long ago it was, but some time ago. Where we were looking at questions from the book of questions.
Jeff:Yes, I remember that.
Chris:All right, so we're gonna start with one question and we'll see how we do for the sake of time. But the first question is, do you think that the world will be a better or worse place 100 years from now?
Jeff:Oh wow. Okay. I'm gonna say better. Yeah. I'm gonna say better. Yeah. Because if I look a hundred years ago from now, the world is, is largely a better place, right? Like we could find little things that maybe are aren't as good now, but for the most part with advancements in in science, technology, medicine, things are generally better. So I would hope, I mean, that's my hope, but I do think, yeah, it'll be better in a hundred years. 21. 23. Jesus Christ. Isn't that something? Yeah. That's wild.
Chris:I think 2023 freaks me off. I had to write that down today and I was like, am I in the future? It's just, yeah, it's crazy, you know? Yeah, it is. Well, that's interesting. I, I don't disagree with what you said in those points. I. One thing that I'm concerned about, and I mean we've talked about this in other ways, but I think about some of the, and look, I love technology. I do, I like technology for what I can get from it. I mean, maybe not technology just for the sake of technology, but. I appreciate it as my point, right? However, I look at some of the negative aspects of it, and we've talked about this in terms of people's attitudes and polarization and all of that. The see, I see that as getting worse. And you know, I think just on last week's episode we were talking about how much worse that has gotten because of we have so many more, so many more sources of information Yeah. Coming at us. Right. And those sources are different news sources. Some are online, some are are traditional tv, at least for now. But then you've got all kinds of, uh, written sources, and then you've got people. Out on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And they're spouting things as fact when it's not it's opinion. But then you got people that can't distinguish fact from opinion and it all just gets worse. Yeah, and I think that's where my concern is. I, I think everything that you said is, is very true and will be great from that standpoint. That all of those things are better. I think I'm concerned about the societal aspect.
Jeff:I could see that for sure. And I'll, I just, so I just thought of this, talking about a hundred years, climate change is a concern. Yeah. You know, with obviously changing weather patterns, but you've, you're gonna, you're gonna see like, portions of society displaced. Because of climate change. Mm-hmm. And that's already happened in, in some places in the world. So I don't see that improving, uh, unless we really start to get our shit together. But I don't think we're really gonna start to get our shit together regarding that.
Chris:No. And yeah, speaking of that, I mean, the. The projections that you see about that are looking out to like 21? Well, 2100 I guess. Mm-hmm. And a little bit beyond which 2100 now is less than 70 years from now.
Jeff:Fuck. Now. Why'd you have to say that? I know. So edit that out.
Chris:I won't see it, but, well, I'm gonna get edited out. But yeah, I mean, those are, that's, those are projections that we're looking at and, and yeah, that's, that's not even nearly a hundred years out. I, I feel panicked. Kind of when I think about some things like that is I want to know what certain things are going to look like, what they're going to be like, what will we have discovered? What will we have invented? And I'm not going to know, and I hate that
Jeff:we're not gonna know unless. There's something that we don't know which, right. I guess it's possible, but doubtful
Chris:always possible. But yeah,
Jeff:it's doubtful. Now I'm gonna haunt the shit outta some people. If it is.
Chris:Yeah. I think about somebody that went past me in the car today. I am gonna find him.
Jeff:Loosen the lug nuts on his wheels. Yeah. Cut his brake line. I'm gonna mess you up. All right. What else you got?
Chris:Okay, so here's another good question. As we've talked a lot about, um, you know, our country, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of that. Mm-hmm. Would you accept$1 million to lead the country and never set foot in
Jeff:it again? Oh my God, yes. Well, hold on. Do I get a choice of where I go? Let's assume
Chris:so it doesn't
Jeff:say you don't. So yeah, I, I'm gone. See you later. Yeah,
Chris:I could see that too. I mean, a million dollars depending on where you go, man. You're set for life
Jeff:right there. So my first thought was Canada, but that's only gonna give was at like$750,000. Yeah.
Chris:Yeah. You've already deflated right there.
Jeff:Deflated as I cross the border.
Chris:Yeah. So I saw an article the other day that was talking about the top 10 places for people to go in retirement. You know, out of the United States where your money would go. The farthest. And some places I had heard of of being popular, uh, Costa Rica, things like that. Several of the countries happen to be Latin American countries. Your, your value does just go farther there. But, uh, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, a million dollars could be two to three times that in terms of what you get for it compared to what it
Jeff:would be here. I think how many houses you can get in Peru for that. Oh yeah. You could buy a whole neighborhood. Yeah, you could.
Chris:Um, okay, so, uh, here's, here's a, uh, in addition to this question, if you were expelled from the country and had only limited financial resources, where would you try to rebuild your life? I'm not sure what I would say to that. I might look at some Latin American countries that may, well, I mean, first thing I think is if they have English speaking as well, you know, Belize. But I don't think Belize is, uh, necessarily cheap.
Jeff:I don't think it is either. That was my thought, like, go somewhere. We're gonna be able to stretch your dollar if you've been expelled. Have we taken enough Spanish in our lives where we could fumble through conversations? I think I could. It wouldn't be pretty.
Chris:No, it wouldn't be pretty. I could fumble through. I could speak right now. I think I could speak better than I could understand. Yeah, same here. And I'm talking fumbling through. I'm not saying it's gonna all be correct or anything like that, but. I have more trouble understanding native speakers, you know? Yeah, same here. Which I'm sure they do with us talking fast, rolling words together, slaying all of that, it's, mm-hmm. It's difficult. But yeah, I think I'd probably look at, at some country like that, where I could stretch the dollars more and not worry so much about the language. I can take care of the language over
Jeff:time. Yeah.
Chris:Okay. You are given the power to kill people simply by thinking of their deaths and twice repeating the word goodbye. People would die a natural death and no one would suspect you. Are there any situations in which you would use this power?
Jeff:Well, yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah.
Chris:Yeah. No moral or ethical dilemmas
Jeff:there? No, no. I, I'm gonna be able to justify all my killings. Okay. Something all the great leaders have done throughout history that's justify the killings. There you go. Yeah. I'll take Vladimir Putin out. I'll take, uh, Kim Jong-un out. Is that his name? That little fart in North Korea. Rocket man. Yeah, take him out. I'm sure I could come up with a list. How about you? Oh, I could come up with a list.
Chris:That's not a problem. I'm, I'm thinking about how I would feel about it, but yeah, when you start talking about people like that, and I guess that's the thing I was thinking like, would you just take out, you know, your, your everyday person that pissed you off. If you talk about people like that. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. I mean, they're taking out all kinds of people for no reason. So
Jeff:objectively horrible people. Yeah, yeah. Objectively, right. Like there's no doubt about it. There's a terrible human beings, they need to be gone. Wipe'em right out of there. So I was looking, uh, for information on, on MA's Little Red Book, going back to that. Mm-hmm. He was responsible for between 40 and 80 million deaths. Damn.'cause of his policies on, um, Well, people starved to death, but that had to do with certain policies he had. There was also political persecution, prison labor. People died there. Just mass executions, like, holy fuck, that's gotta be at the top of the list. Right? For number of deaths you're responsible for. Yeah. I think Stalin was around there too, but Jesus Christ, was he really? Yeah. Shit. That's insane. It is. Yeah, I could. I could come up with a list and I'd use my power. I would use it judiciously. Mm-hmm. I'm not just gonna go willy-nilly. That's fair. Yeah. I can appreciate that. How long does it take'em to die? Do they just keel over right away or is it a slow death?
Chris:Well, it says a natural death, so
Jeff:I mean, I think, you know, could be heart attack, heart
Chris:attack, stroke, something. Yeah. You know, it could even be humane. They could just die in their sleep. I think that'd be, that'd be nice. It doesn't mean they have to get hacked up and have their dick sucked.
Jeff:What a way to go out. All right. There you go. That is another episode. And if you like this kind of stuff, then this is your kind of podcast, so you should, without a doubt, absolutely. Positively follow us on whatever platform you listen to podcasts on, because that way you're gonna get new episodes delivered to you every single Tuesday when they drop. And while you are there, if you wouldn't mind, go ahead and rate us. We would be really happy if you'd give us five stars and if you type something in the review. That makes it easier for people to discover the show, so we would also appreciate that. Doesn't matter what you type, you can type anything. We have a website. It is Subpar Talks dot com. You can email us there. You can leave us a voicemail. If you wanna leave suggestions for topics we should cover on future episodes, please go ahead and do that. We are on social media, on Twitter, or whatever we're calling it now. We are at Subpar Talks on Facebook. We are Subpar Talks. If you wanna follow our personal Twitter accounts, you can do that as well on there. I am at@independentjeff
Chris:and I am at Chris Bradford
Jeff:tx. We have some other social media links on our website. You could check those out. And last, but never, ever least share Subpar Talks on social media. Share it with your friends, family, colleagues, anybody you encounter, because the more people we have listening to this show, that makes it easier on us to get this content to you each and every week. All right. Any more thoughts on. Dicks in a bucket. Choking. I'd be
Chris:careful about dog collars going forward.
I
Jeff:tell you what. Yeah, like I was gonna, like I said earlier, man, if somebody's gonna put you in a dog collar, if that's your thing, make sure you, you know who that person is. Met somebody you just picked up at a bar
Chris:and that they didn't bring any suitcases
Jeff:with them, right? Yes. Okay. Is another episode and we will be back next week. Until then, so long.