"Empowerment and Advocacy: Bethan Davies on ADHD, entrepreneurship and social change”

Hosted by Katie Stibbs and Sara Robinson

Show Notes:

Welcome to a special episode where we’re joined by  Bethan Davies, a powerhouse in PR. Bethan, the founder of the impact agency ‘Cause, is here to share her inspiring journey, her professional work tackling big social issues with award-winning campaigns, and her insights on ADHD in entrepreneurship.

Highlights of the Episode:

Period Equality and The Blobcast: Bethan discusses her involvement in period equality and her work on the podcast "The Blobcast: Free the Period.

ADHD in Professional Life: Bethan shares her experiences with ADHD in relation to work and entrepreneurship, discussing the impact of her diagnosis on her career and life.

Burnout and Balance: A candid conversation on experiencing burnout and how it affects life and relationships.

Social Justice Drive: Delve into Bethan's award-winning campaigns, including her efforts to tackle modern slavery, promote recycling, and support refugees, and explore the connection between ADHD and a drive for social justice.

Awards and Advocacy: Celebrating Bethan’s industry recognitions and her commitment to women’s equality and neurodiversity in the workplace.

Join us for this enlightening conversation with Bethan, as we explore the intersections of ADHD, professional success, and the pursuit of social justice.

Connect with Bethan Davies, Founder of 'Cause Impact Agency: 

https://causecollective.co.uk/

Bethan is running the London Marathon for The Mental Health Foundation in memory of her friend the link to donate is below
https://www.justgiving.com/page/bethan-davies-1695028555347

 https://www.phs.co.uk/equality/blobcast/

Connect with Us:

Katie Stibbs

Email: info@katiestibbs.com

Website: http://www.welovepeopleschool.com

Looking for guidance for navigating life with ADHD? Contact Katie to learn more about the Access to Work grant from the UK government, and discover strategies for simplifying your life and achieving success by embracing your authentic self.

Sara Robinson

Email: sara@sararobinsoncomms.co.uk

Website: Sara Robinson Communications: https://www.sararobinsoncomms.co.uk/

Award-winning PR Consultant, Trainer, Content Writer, and Labour Councillor in Cardiff.

Reach out to Sara for expert advice on PR and communication strategies, writing services and training.

Transcript

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the podcast Ambitious ADHD, where we aim to change the conversation around neurodiversity, to talk about our challenges, our strengths, but to really learn to finally be ourselves because everyone else is taken. Hello and welcome to this episode of the podcast. Now, I am really excited to say that we have a brilliant woman on today as a guest on today's episode, and her name is Bethan Davis. And Bethan has had a career in tv production, advertising, events, journalism, and before, she always says, apparently she settled for pr and comms and she is now the founder of an impact agency called Cuz. And she lives often in Cardiff and often in London with her partner Sean. And welcome to the podcast.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. I should say, I also live with my cat, Challa. I think he'd be really offended if he knew I didn't mention him.

Speaker A: I missed that off the bio accidentally. And any particular reason for the name?

Speaker B: So he is an all black cat. So he's named after the Black Panther king, Chala, but we also call him Chad for short, Chadwick Bozeman, who played him. So yeah, that's why. Amazing.

Speaker A: So, Beth, in. In preparation for this conversation, obviously I did some research because I have been introduced to you, even though I've never met you, by obviously, my gorgeous co host Sara, who has said wonderful things about you. So how do you two know each other for starters?

Speaker B: So Sarah and I actually worked together. I want to say like 2007 was when we worked together, but I actually don't know how long we worked together. Maybe like a year or two years.

Speaker A: Sarah?

Speaker C: Yeah, it wasn't actually that long, but long enough for you to make a massive impression on me. But it wasn't actually that long. No.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: What were you both doing in those roles?

Speaker B: We were working in a PR agency in Cardiff. It was actually the first PR agency that I ever worked at. I'd come from a role sort of like in the welsh government, and we were working on actually lots of similar stuff to what we work on at cars now. So kind know government contracts, behavior change, contracts, that sort of thing, basically.

Speaker A: Okay, and can I just start? I know this might seem like a dull question, but considering it's a podcast around ADHD, can I ask you, are you formally diagnosed with ADHD, by the way?

Speaker B: I am, yes. I say, quote unquote, lucky enough to be kind of unofficially diagnosed in my twenty s. And I spoke to a friend of mine who was a clinical psychologist and I don't understand where it came from, but I was always aware, especially like in a work setting, like in meetings, that I would just lose massive chunks of time. And then somebody would ask me a question and I'd be like, oh, my God, how long have I been gone? I was just like, oh, I've been somewhere else completely. And it didn't matter how much I wanted to concentrate and wanted to be good at my job and listen to people, I just found it. It would happen all the time. Scarily as well. When I was driving, I would just arrive places.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I totally hear you on that one.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think I just happened across an article about it and I read it and then I think I just looked into it a little bit more and I spoke to my good friend about it who was, as I said, a clinical psychologist. And I said, if I said to you I had ADHD, what would you say? And she was like, oh, my God, definitely. I can't believe this is a question. And then her professional mode kicked in, went, oh, yeah, but it probably is something you should look into. Yeah, no, because I was just like, right, okay. But I didn't really know at that time because there was just not much awareness about ADHD, really, that I had of the symptoms and what it was, but I was just a little bit like, wow. I find it real difficult to focus and planning is hard, and there I go, off on my way. I didn't realize. Yeah, I just got on with it, that information.

Speaker A: Sorry to interrupt you. What provoked you in getting a formal diagnosis?

Speaker B: What I've read is probably quite typical. As you get older, it becomes harder to manage. As you have more and more responsibilities, it becomes harder to manage. And also during the pandemic, probably I wasn't being exposed to all of the things that now I know help regulate my adhd, things that I'd sort of worked into my life without even really thinking about it. And I had somewhere around, I want to say, sort of May 2021, I had quite a serious sort of burnout episode where I couldn't open my laptop for like, six weeks. I couldn't do anything. I think I spoke to Sarah about this previously. I just wander around parks, like touching trees. I think that year started me on a course of thinking about, actually, I should probably get it properly diagnosed because I kept implementing sort of, like, different things and following all of the advice I was being given by sort of a burnout coach and different coaches and trying to do this and trying to do this and almost trying to relax my way out of ADHD. But actually, when you're just doing all of these things, you're just adding more things to your to do list.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you relax yourself out of neurodiversity, and you can't do all of these things are complementary. And I kept going into burnout cycles even when I was doing all of the right things because I just wasn't managing my ADHD in complete enough way, I think.

Speaker A: Okay. In a complete enough way. Let me just get into that. So when you were experiencing burnout internally, were you really freaking out or was it just a matter of. Not like there wasn't really much cognitive.

Speaker B: I think I read something which, in terms of wording, described it really well, and it was just like a complete cognitive overload. Someone asked me to try and define what burnout sort of feels like, and the best I could come up with was kind of like a physical and mental crescendo of stress and pressure that eventually changes who you are and how you behave in such a dramatic way that you have no control over yourself, over your responses. You just a completely different person.

Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. Okay. And when you weren't kind of getting any better or finding not much kind of the self soothing and all the things weren't working, then what did you do?

Speaker B: I think then, because I worked with a burnout coach who honestly did change my life, and another business coach as well called Joe, who I think is on instagram as get wildly free. And both of them, honestly have completely changed my life, my attitude towards work, how I look after myself. But I was doing all of these things, but I was just still overwhelmed. I still had what I felt to be, like, this cognitive overload. And I think I'd taken a month off in August because I was like, yeah, I'm going to do all the right things, and I'm going to rest the hell out of August. And, yeah, and all I did was go on lovely holidays and have a lovely time for a whole month. And we were on our way back from Dublin where we'd been to. We hadn't been to a wedding, actually, because the wedding had had to be postponed, but we'd just gone on the break anyway, and we were on our way back, and we were in Dublin airport, and it was so busy and it was so stressful. And I remember just crying in the middle of departures, just being like, I want to go home. I want to go home. I want to go home. And I was like, all I've done is take time off. And all I've done is I've done a year or maybe like, eight, nine months of doing the right things and it's still not working. And I was like, something bigger is at play here. And I was like, I think it's probably time that I actually go and get this ADHD thing that I've been very aware of and very open about for most of my working life. I was like, to go and get it looked at and that's when I sought an official diagnosis.

Speaker A: And how did that help you? How did that. Did that change your kind of process about it or the way you thought.

Speaker B: About the having an official diagnosis? And know, I've got to give props to Sarah here, who is such a source of support for me. And I think she was going through it maybe like two or three months ahead of me and she could give me quite a lot of the lessons learned that she'd been through. But I think despite the fact that I'd always been aware of it and I was completely certain about it and I remember at the time I said, sir, I just don't think I'm going to feel like that because actually, I've been aware of it most of my life. And actually the process of actually being diagnosed properly was completely overwhelming, validating, amazing. I felt equally like I wanted to laugh, dance, punch the ear, cry, flip a table with rage, and I just felt like every single emotion that you could. I spent a lot of time, which I think many people talk about, kind of like grieving for my old me and all of the things I used to say to myself and all of the ways I'd been misunderstood, but mostly it just felt like just a ****** relief. And I speak to myself in such a different way now. I'm so much kinder to myself and actually, whereas before I used to try and do things that I found really difficult because I'm trying to be normal, writing really long, detailed articles that I would drag out of my soul and my carcass over like a three week period. I would just go to someone else and go, can you do this for me? And then I just pay them to do it because I'm like, I don't have to pretend that I can do these things anymore. I can't do it. And I've got a clinical reason why. Liberation, it's completely changed my life. So when people say, is it really necessary? For some people it's just a label. I'm like, it's completely necessary. It's been the most necessary and most liberating things that I've ever done for.

Speaker A: Oh, that's so freaking brilliant, that is.

Speaker C: Let's just jump in. Really excited. We've got Batan on today's episode. I'm not just saying this and there's no check in the post, but she really is most inspirational, creative, clever, driven women that I've ever worked with. And when our paths crossed just briefly over ten years ago, longer, much longer than that now. It was weird because we both went off to different jobs and then we kind of stayed in touch through social media the way, you know, but we weren't incredibly close. And then I think through the process of our diagnosis, kind of drifted back together because we were kind of looking for somebody that we both knew that was going through this. And equally, Bethan has been just so amazing at inspiring me with the stuff that she's learning around burnout and kind of not trying to be something you're not and boundaries. And I feel like I've got as much from Bethan as I have from people that I've paid to help me with some of this stuff. So I'm really excited about talking about Bethan's work because the kind of flip side of the downside of all the downsides of ADHD is the creativity, I think. And I'm really excited today about exploring some of the work that she does and a lot of which, and she's very humble. So I just hope it's okay to jump in and say this, a lot of which is based around changing the world and doing good in the world and changing minds and changing stances and changing policy and, yeah, I'm just really excited to find out a bit more about this because I think what Baton has managed to do really successfully in her career is combine her creativity with that burning social justice that we all know or that kind of sense of injustice that comes with ADHD and has managed to do some amazing, award winning good in the world with it. So I just want to give her that shout out because she was very kind to say that I helped her because I was a little bit ahead of her. But I just feel like we've been walking the same path alongside each other.

Speaker A: Just love it. Know, as women, especially with ADHD, we don't celebrate what we've done on our achievements. It takes our colleagues or our friends to just remind us. So I'm just guessing you're the kind of person, Bethan, that doesn't really celebrate your successes, or am I wrong there?

Speaker B: I think you are wrong there, actually. I don't know. I think to a certain degree I do. I always joke actually, that I'm a terrible show off and I'm not very humble, but actually, when I was speaking to my burnout coach, who I still check in with now, Katie Phillips is her name, every quarter, just to check that I'm not letting old habits creep back in, which they obviously inevitably do, she's like, so how have things gone since the last time we spoke? And I was like, oh, this has happened, and this has happened and this has happened. And she'd be like, should we talk about the fact that you just won a massive piece of government work and the fact that you've won three awards since I last spoke to you? And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess those are things that went well. Yeah, exactly. And I think, I don't know, I'm slowly coming into a place where actually I'm getting better at celebrating things in a much more genuine way. I think the fact that I've set up a business and that it's going really well for actually quite a number of years now in a row, I am like, I'm buzzing about that. I'm absolutely buzzing. It's really difficult to run a business, and it makes me feel incredibly validated by getting that external validation of awards and stuff like that, which I did feel like I really wanted. I think, in part to heal some of that work related trauma from working in other agencies, not actually the one I worked at with Sarah. For me, that was a brilliant agency to work in and really supportive, but from other agencies, perhaps. Since that point, there was a lot of work scars, I think, which I've healed by creating your own. Creating my own environment and by that way, only inviting people into it where I know I'm going to find acceptance. And I have to give a lot of credit to my colleagues and my clients for supporting me and allowing me to be, like, 100% myself in my work environment. I love that. And it is a massive privilege that I am really aware of every day that not everybody can do this and all of the things, despite, yes, I've got ADHD, but there are so many obstacles that I haven't had to overcome, which means that I've been able to put myself in this position to literally live my best life.

Speaker A: And I just love listening to other people's experiences of growing their business and that creative process. So I really want to know, how did this start? How did this evolve and what is your creative process? I really want to know how all of this works.

Speaker B: So I left the last agency I worked at in not probably the best circumstances, but absolutely at the right time, like, for everybody. And I just knew I could never work for anyone else ever again. And I didn't know at all how I was going to do that. And I just thought, oh, I'll just freelance. And then part of me was just like, maybe I'll open up a sandwich shop. Which is basically always what I say when I don't know what I'm doing with myself and I'm overwhelmed. I'm like, I just want to open a sandwich shop. Which is a ridiculous idea, because I'm a celiac and gluten free and I can't eat whenever I'm really stressed. My words are, I've got sandwich shop vibes. I've got sandwich shop vibes. And I started freelancing and a very good friend of mine gave me my first gig and I was like, gosh, actually, I do quite like this. But it was all kind of a bit uncertain still, that self employment thing. And then I spent a good few months hustling to set up some new clients and then the pandemic hit and all of sort of the clients that I'd set up ready to, I guess, on board in April 2020, all, one by one, fell by the wayside and didn't start up again and didn't get started, obviously, because the world was in such turmoil back then. And it was just the weirdest thing. I got two calls from the UK government on one day asking me if I would go to work for them as a strategic communications person.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: I had no idea how this came about at all, but somebody in the cabinet office had my cb and so I went to work for one department and I worked there then for a year, while kind of slowly putting the feelers back out again that I wanted to go back self employed. I had a brilliant gig with another agency that was fantastic, sort of immediately after that. And then, I don't know, I think I got recommended by a few people, sort of on a freelance group. And then after my year working for the UK government, which was a massive learning, and I was very appreciative of it and it closed a book or closed a door for me on a part of my brain that was always like, kind of felt like I could be a spin doctor and a little bit of like what you call him, a Malcolm Tucker in the thick of it. What it meant was I could never, ever do that ever again. Brilliant. At least you, honestly, God bless the civil service, because I would never be able to do that ever again.

Speaker A: Can I just ask you why, if you could sum it up in a few words.

Speaker B: I think ADHD people move quite quickly. We see lots of links and things. We're quite creative. I am terrible with inefficiency and I just want to get **** done. And obviously, because it's public money, everything has to be super. There's a lot of processes that you have to go through and due diligence, and I completely get that and I completely understand that. Although I will say, well, I don't know if ministers don't follow your due diligence, is all I'll say, necessarily. But it just felt to me like wading through treacle. And there was honestly so many calls you might be on. Calls from like 09:00 a.m. Until 05:00 p.m. I do genuinely think this did massively contribute to my first burnout because I was just receiving too much information all day long. All day long, all day long. Without much opportunity for a break, aside from your lunchtimes and stuff like that. And it's not for me. So I really respect everyone who can do that. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Meeting after meeting after meeting with no action. Yes.

Speaker B: No wonder.

Speaker A: Crazy.

Speaker B: Well, I don't know if there's no actions. The actions just take longer, and it suits some people, and it just didn't suit me. It didn't suit me. But the people, they were incredible and they were fantastic, principled, hardworking people, and I wish them all well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so how did that segue, then.

Speaker B: Into.

Speaker A: The creating of your own business? Just getting more and more clients, I suppose. But I really want to know the process, how you even create the campaign, and what are your particular creative strengths that enable you to see the vision and what the client wants? What do you think about that?

Speaker B: Like you said, I just ended up getting sort of more and more clients on board, and then I was working freelancing for one other agency that I stepped back from at this point when. Cause as it is now, was just becoming a bit too big. And my colleague Heidi, who I always say I could not run the business without, was just like, I think you need to put a name on the business now. I think you need to and call it a thing. Which I found really difficult. Despite being a gigantic show off. I think putting something out into the world, especially on LinkedIn, which is just not my space, it felt like a big thing. It felt like a big thing. But everybody's been super supportive and really loves the brand. And I think the way that we work differently is that, yes, clients come to us to help them with their cause related work and a lot of campaigning work. We do a lot of work in period equality. We do a lot of work with one of our clients, phs, who are just the best people in the world to work with around talking about any taboo issues in society. Brilliant. But we also, then we look at the issues that need a light shining on them and we take those to clients as well. Or we approach brands and say, actually, if you want to really increase your brand value, this subject matter here, these people, you need to get behind them. And this is what you should be famous for. And that's what people really care about. Because at the end of the day, all companies are the same. I think a lot of companies like to think that this product is better and this product is better than their competitors, but by and large, companies are the same. And the things that people will really remember you for and care about and actually choose you over another company is a lot of that purpose led stuff, which is where we really excel.

Speaker A: And what is your favorite part of this whole process? Have you got some real that you're just like right in the flow? This feels really good to me.

Speaker B: I think for me it's always at the beginning and at the end, which I think does, because at the beginning I'm always really excited about it and all of the possibilities and all of the different creative things that we could do for a client and when you're coming up with all of those ideas and then trying to filter them down into what a campaign is. And I also love, because a lot of the work we do is cause related, as the brand name would suggest. We talk to a lot of people that these issues are affecting. And I love that one to one interaction and interviewing people and really get into the heart of a story and why things need to be changed. I spent a lot of last year speaking to men who had life saving prostate cancer treatment. But an after effect of that treatment is that they might experience urinary incontinence, some for like a couple of weeks, some for a couple of months, but some maybe for the rest of their lives. And this was an issue that was just not known in society at all. And so I spent a long time last year interviewing ten or eleven different case studies about how they felt about this, how they felt about the society, didn't know about this, how that there were no facilities for them in public. And it was one of the greatest honors that these men were sharing their stories for the first time and actually getting that out in the public and actually making that, you know, using their testimonies to actually create real change and hopefully this year some legislative changes that will reflect that work.

Speaker A: Wow. So it's never really always different, your work.

Speaker B: Every single day. We might be doing some work for PHS around male incontinence, but we might be doing creating a podcast for them, which we've done last year as well, called Blobcast. But then we also have other clients where we're trying to campaign for better pay, better working conditions for hospitality workers in central London. We also do a lot of work around food waste and food recycling. And I'm such a food waste nerd. It's one of those things I'm really hyper focused on. And I'm a terrible person to be around in your home because I'm like, oh, are you?

Speaker C: Let me jump in here.

Speaker B: I'm just really curious about what you.

Speaker C: Just said about two days being the same, because that's how I've always described what I do. And obviously we both work in comms and I'm curious whether there's something about having ADHD that draws people to the world of comms, because you do have that variety and that. I guess the question I'm asking you is, do you think you inadvertently ended up in a career where you can chase dopamine without even knowing it? Because I think that's what happened to me. But everyone's different and I'm curious about your take on how your ADHD interacts with your whole path, really, since university.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think know, because as Katie said at the know, I've done a lot of. I, I did some tv work and then did some advertising, then did some events, and then I trained as a journalist, which is always what I wanted to be. I always wanted to be a film and entertainment journalist, but it just proves I would have been a terrible one. Because then when I went for the first paid job as a journalist, it was like, the salary was like twelve and a half grand in London. I was like, I can't afford that. Inadvertently sort of fell into pr, but I think I've stayed in it because of that variety. I think I probably would have been a poor journalist because surely I should have researched the pay before going into it. That sereneness was clearly lacking back then.

Speaker A: Can I just ask you about that? Do you mind me asking, are you on taking any medication for ADHD?

Speaker B: I'm not. It is actually one of the reasons why I wanted to get diagnosed was so that actually medication would be an option for me because I felt as if I was at a stage where I definitely needed it and especially at some time, like different days during the month that I call no drive days because I'm not even capable of safely walking across the road on some of those days. But I thought I would give myself. But I know this is an excuse. I've retrofitted. I said, I'll give myself like a year post diagnosis to see how I'm feeling and then I'll go and approach getting meds. And I still do want to approach getting meds, but I actually hate going to the doctor so much, or my particular doctor because I feel as if I have to advocate so hard for myself, even for physical ailments. The idea of taking an ADHD diagnosis to them and saying, hey, can you help me with this shared care agreement? And some medication just fills me with such dread and rage in equal measure that I just think it will be a terrible interaction. And so I keep putting it off and I keep giving loads of different people accountability jobs to check in with me to see have I gone to the doctor and I just blank them. Absolutely brilliant. Add you two to my accountability list if you like. Probably ignore you guys as well, but.

Speaker A: Yeah, two more people you're going to ignore. It's funny thing, isn't it, what we kind of resist and I totally understand that. That whole process, it just fills you with utter dread. But maybe worth trying because it might really have massive benefit, but for some people it doesn't.

Speaker B: Yeah, I do really want to. I might set myself a new deadline. Basically, I just want to give it a whirl because actually I think it'll be quite transformative. For me personally, I do like a sense that it will be.

Speaker A: Yeah, perhaps that's what you're scared of.

Speaker B: Maybe.

Speaker A: I really want to know because I know you had such success with your ADHD, your burnout coaches, rather. So what have you got in place now that really are you finding benefits you? I know you don't always stick to it. Who does? But what are the main components of those kind of rituals or routines?

Speaker B: I've kind of got like a framework of stuff, I guess, that I sort of try and dip in and out of. If I did everything that was on my list, it'd be like having a part time job. But I try, kind of without fail to do yoga every day, even on days if I'm a little bit sick, then I try and just find like yoga with Adrienne on YouTube has got a yoga when you're sick, which is basically like a lie, a guided lie down. So I try and do yoga without fail every day. I try and go for walks every day. Like, being outside is really important to me. And ideally being around somewhere where there are trees, where I always feel super grounded. I'll literally walk past the tree and I'll touch the tree. My boyfriend calls me a tree pervert. And I'll touch the tree and I'll pull leaves off and I'll feel the leaves between fingers, I'll smell the leaves and stuff like that. And that has been super helpful. But generally as well, like cardio or something harder than a 20 minutes yoga session, which is my non negotiable almost every day as well, I find is really helpful. But I don't have kids, so it's a lot easier for me to make that commitment to myself.

Speaker A: Yeah, sorry, can I just jump in there? Because I know you're about to run the marathon training for the London marathon.

Speaker B: I am.

Speaker C: It's not your first, is it?

Speaker B: It's not my first, but I didn't really want to run a second one, if I'm honest. I think I ran one. I don't even know when it was. Maybe like ten years ago, maybe a little bit more. But I did say, actually, if I ever do another one, it'll be the London marathon. And I was lucky enough to get a place on the London marathon this year. And there was something in my bones last year that told me, like, this is the year that I will get a place, and this is the cause that I want to do it for. And I was lucky enough to get a place, so I'm not looking forward to it, but I am looking forward to it. But I've had, like, a month off because I've had this 100 day cough that's going around, so I'm a little bit more anxious about it than I was before Christmas.

Speaker C: Can I ask you a question about training then, Bethan? Because I guess we all are fairly familiar with the idea that adhds aren't great at consistency. So I really struggle because I don't know whether you do this too, Katie, but I set goals, and then I will go for lather and then it'll just fall by the wayside. And I know that training. I'm also a runner, but I'm nowhere near as good as you. Nowhere near as committed. I've never run a marathon. I just don't think I have it.

Speaker B: In me faster than I am, Lou.

Speaker C: I'm really not. And I'm so impressed by people who keep up to the training for a marathon because it is a part time job and I'm just curious about how you've run one before, so you've proven to yourself that you can do it and now you've signed up to do it again. What motivates you and how do you keep the training consistent?

Speaker B: So I've got an online running coach called Alex Bull from studio Taro in Cardiff, and she writes me plans. So I'm very good if things are written down. And she tells me each week, these are the non negotiables, and then everything else is nice to have. I think my problem is, which I think probably a lot of ADHD people have. I've heard that ADHD people get really fatty and just get really into something and then that. I'm not like that. I try a hobby, I try something new, and I'm like, that's mine for life. And as a result, I've got, like 40 different things I want to do in any given sort of week with my trainer. She'd be like, so what do you want to do in January? And I was like, well, I want to do a bar challenge. I want to do the yoga challenge. I also want to go back to boxing because now I'm in London and I want to do pilates and I definitely want to go back to dance classes as well. But then obviously I need to do my marathon training and I want to do this. And she's like, okay, this is like four people's training plans, the non negotiable runs, in which actually, you don't need to do as many as you think. Like a minimum of two and three is fine. And then she puts other stuff, which I call like, fun stuff, like pilates or like reformer or like a dance class and stuff like that on top of that stuff. But she'll, oh, my God. And a weight session or whatever, and she'll like, you have to run twice and you have to do one weight session, and then you can do everything else like as and when you want. And so I get motivated by the variety, I guess.

Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Hold on a minute. I really need to. Sorry to jump in, Zara. I really, really want to know what your week looks like just in everything that you do. Do you mind? Because I'm so nosy. I love the detail.

Speaker B: No week ever does look the same because I mix up the stuff that goes into my training plan. But I try and wake up early every day. But since I've had this horrendous cough. I've been really into late getting up late because I might have to like to get 7 hours. I might actually have to be in bed for like 10 hours like coughing but I get up quite early and then I always do my workouts in the morning and then sort of have a shower and go for a walk, get a coffee and then sit down and work. And I usually work until about 6630 at night. I do tend to set an alarm to stop working because I tend to get into a super hyper focus in the evening and just because I'm in it I don't feel like I should stay in it because that is where burnout lies. And then my brain is too active at night and then I can't sleep and whatever. So I tend to try and set an alarm and go for a walk after work, bookend the day and I don't tend to do much kind of like after work anymore. I was always pre burnout. Bethan is like she used to be doing something every single night. Every single night. Whereas now I try and do one thing during the week and then do something on either a Friday or a Saturday evening and then I'm out walking all day, usually on a Sunday doing something.

Speaker A: Wow, has that been difficult for you or just because you know the consequences? It's like just a natural thing that happens now that you just say no.

Speaker B: So I'm always the instigator of activities is what I would say. I definitely have been in the past. I always joke that if I don't instigate activities with my friendship group for the girls from school then nothing ever happened. I did put a ban on myself from doing it because I was finding it just adding to basically my burnout that I was becoming like an organizer for all activities. So I banned myself from doing it. I don't think we all met together for like two years. I broke and I organized something again at like Christmas time. But I do say no a lot more now. And actually my focus for the rest of this year, well until after the marathon is concentrating on my fitness. Staying well. I tend to get Covid a lot so I'll only be meeting people in outdoor settings because I don't want to get ill before I run my race and stuff.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker B: I often find myself arranging one thing to do of an evening during the week and I can feel myself like looking at stuff or beyond my control that might be good to do. Or maybe I could go and see blah blah blah and I have to force myself to pull back and not do that, basically. So the answer is yes. It is hard, but I do find a lot of empowerment in saying no to things when other people try and organize things. I'm not in a very clans place at the moment either, which is really helpful. I think. I'm really surrendering to the Instagram trend of wintering.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Me too. Really have been wintering for the biggest. Really have noticed that this year.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've been loving it. If only I'd known about this sooner, maybe I wouldn't have been so tired for ten years.

Speaker C: I know.

Speaker A: And I just want to ask you, is community important to you? I can get a sense. Obviously you're friends with your friends from blooming childhood, for goodness sake. So I'm guessing that friendship and people are a big part of your life, but have you got different tribes or communities?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think I find it with joke that they never send me to the bar because I'll always take too long because I've made friends at the bar and I love chatting to people. I've chatting to anyone I was joked to. My favorite job was working in the pub because I could just get to chat to people for it. And I love meeting new people. I love keeping in close contact with my friends and I'm quite good at, generally speaking, like, maintaining contact and maintaining, because I find I do get a lot of energy from those relationships and seeing people, like, face to face. I'm not very good at calling people and because I'm trying more and more to sort of have space and have no technology time. But I really like meeting up with people and having genuine exchanges as opposed to just more talk. Yeah. Somebody calling, just like when they've got like five minutes beer or something like that, I want to have a good sit down chat type thing.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Get down to the deeper. Yeah. I think that is a real trait I found of ADHD people knowing now that nearly all of my friends seem to have ADHD, that was the thing. I just always get down to the deeper, meaningful. There was no small talk ever.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think I'm the same. I think Sarah's the same as me. Tell me all your talk.

Speaker C: No small talk, at least medium talk, at the very least.

Speaker A: So interesting to us, isn't it? Because people are. Well, we just tend to be interested, genuinely interested in other people.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. Can I jump in? Because I'm just keen to ask Bethan a bit about one of her campaigns in particular, just because with my feminist face on. I think this is one of the most important kind of issues that often goes unheard and kind of unseen, and that's around the issue of period equality. So I'd be really keen to hear a bit more about why you got involved with that, Beth, and why it matters.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I've been doing work in period equality since I think, 2021 with my client PHS, who are a brilliant, as I said earlier, a brilliant organization to work with, and my client Kelly, who's my direct client and also her boss, Bret. Absolutely brilliant. But I think in the email, Katie, you asked me who one of my heroes are. And actually I probably would say Kelly because she's done so much work in this area and has really, she's just trailblazing. And when we started working in period equality, nobody was talking about it that much, I don't think. Whereas I think it's something that you see a lot more on the news and stuff now. And when we started, we were looking at just how periods were keeping girls out of classrooms and absenteeism because maybe they couldn't afford period products. But actually the work that we've done over the past few years actually shows us that the problem is getting bigger and girls are missing more school than ever now because of their periods. And it isn't always just an affordability of products issue. It's around the environment that schools are creating. If toilets are locked during break, during class times and you can't leave to go and change your pads, that openness and around talking about your period. And lots of girls stay home from school, they're embarrassed to be on their period during the. They're just embarrassed and they don't want anybody to know that they have it. It's that whole thing about shoving a tampon up your arm. When did we learn to do that and why was it?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: And the fact that we're not talking about it is actually causing real problems from a health perspective for lots of people as well, because they're identifying issues at a much later stage, because we're not raising our hand and saying, actually, I'm having loads of period pain and this doesn't feel normal, but nobody knows what normal is because everybody thinks that their period is the same as everybody else's because nobody's really talking about it.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, you're so right, actually. And I've just noticed in the school the other day, I don't know why I was in this school. I can't think now, just maybe it was a sports event and.

Speaker B: It was.

Speaker A: A big campaign on the wall, lots of posts. I was thinking, oh, my God, yes, that's the first time I've seen that in toilets. And I just thought, yeah, actually, it's so relevant to all women.

Speaker B: I think the work that we'll be doing sort of this year will be looking much more around sort of how periods affect employment. And I think in a capitalist society, which is what we live in, you're expected to turn up to work and live your life every single day in exactly the same manner, when actually from a female and biological perspective, no single day of your life is the same, but you're expected to turn up and perform in the same way every single day. And so a lot of the work we'll be doing will be kind of looking at that in the coming years. And actually the need for more education for everybody at all levels, from school, for teachers, for educators, employers, all of that stuff. Really?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I just remember being at drama school, actually, with. I just remember like three of the girls and I'd never seen it, so it's in such extreme cases, but they obviously had endometriosis, which was never talked about then. And I've never seen people be so ill and be so out of. Out. Couldn't train for literally sometimes a week and a half out of every month. Yeah, it's just like, oh, yeah, got your period. It's just absolutely so important.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. And I think engendering a culture of open conversations and stuff is what we're trying to do. And the importance of choice and agency around choosing your own products and stuff, which obviously the cost of living crisis is having a huge effect on. These are all just like really important issues, and there's so much left for us to be delving into and talking about. We've produced a very informative but also very funny podcast called the Blobcast Colon free. The period, which is all around having free conversations about it, not just like, campaigning for free products, which is the biggest goal that I have, is for us to work towards having free period products for everyone, everywhere, because they're not a luxury, they are a necessity.

Speaker C: Can I jump in here? Because the threads that goes through all of your work with cause, and also I think the work that you've been most attracted to throughout your career, the work where you've really kind of got really dug in and really kind of produced those campaigns that really make a difference, they're all around issues that are important in society, but often are just, as I said earlier, just kind of invisible people who don't have voices. And what I see as the golden thread that runs through all of your work today and historically is tackling social injustices. And I know we've had conversations about this because that social injustice thing led me into politics, so I went into a different route to do it. And you've managed to successfully do this in your work. You have a job or you run a business, that means that you are, on a daily basis coming up with creative ideas to help a raise awareness and b change the situation for whomever it is. And I'm just curious about that social justice piece of you and that idea of unfairness. We were talking just before the episode about people jumping in queues and how.

Speaker B: We both get massage, which is a.

Speaker C: Great example of social justice, but you take that to the end degree and actually do something tangible in the world to tackle these things. So I'm really curious about just your sense of social injustice, really, and where that came from. Do you always remember having it and does it run through the rest of your life as well?

Speaker B: I think I was reflecting on this for like a magazine piece I was writing last week, and it was never, I guess, like a conscious decision to do it. But I think, as we know, ADHD brains only work, not even work best, but really only work around stuff they're interested in. And so having that strong sense of justice and fairness and whatever, I guess, led me to doing better work around stuff where it was four issues, four causes on behalf of charities. The work I was doing was better because I was much more interested in it. And so I ended up kind of accidentally carving out a career by doing this course related stuff. And actually, that's the stuff where the stories of the people are as well, where I can have those conversations with people. Now, I don't work in a pub. And from that perspective, where I can have those deep and meaningful conversations with people and hopefully turn it into the change that needs to happen. And I think, yeah, I definitely think that strong sense of social justice, or just that battling for fairness or whatever runs through the rest of me, I always think. I often think, do I always have to put my hand up and say something? Can I not just shut up just for a quieter, easier life? Sometimes? But I've always got to say something and I can't stop myself. And sometimes, you know, so, yes, probably. I guess it's one of the reasons why I want to run the marathon as well, to try and raise money for a really good cause. What is that cause?

Speaker C: Who are you doing that for?

Speaker B: So I'm doing that for the mental health foundation and a really good friend of mine passed away last year and so I'm running it in his memory, I guess, which I'm really proud and honored to be doing that for him and for his family and also for everybody else, really, including myself, who's had mental health issues. And things feel harder for a lot of people at the moment and mental health services have never been so stretched. So I feel like it's just a really good cause to be running for.

Speaker A: But yeah, amazing. Now we're coming to the end of the episode. Actually coming to the end of this conversation, but I just wanted to ask you, what would you say, if any words of wisdom to your younger self, what would you say to her?

Speaker B: Probably get diagnosed earlier. I don't know if I would know that. I definitely think that I get diagnosed earlier, but also I guess I just chill out a bit. Rest is what I would say, I think. And I think that my mantra for this year is very much around peace and moderation. And moderation I find in always quite difficult. But I know that that is actually what brings me peace. So that's what I'm aiming for, I guess, for this year. So I'd probably tell her to chill out a little bit.

Speaker A: Yeah, brilliant. Doing what's right for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: Well, it's been absolutely having you here.

Speaker B: And talking quite emotion actually.

Speaker A: Brilliant. So many brilliant women that we know you're one of them. All of your link to your giving. Just giving page for the marathon on show notes and the links your business and yeah, just thank you for all the amazing work you're doing.

Speaker B: No, thank you guys. This has been a. Thank you.

Speaker C: Oh, thanks for joining us. This has been lovely to hear more about your world and I think we can all take a lot from those two words, peace and moderation.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Speaker A: Thank you for joining us. I hope you enjoyed the episode. If you would like more of this kind of stuff, join us at we love pupil school. For people that want to create lasting relationships, great communication and build a life that means that they can be fully themselves. Thank you for listening.