Change Work, How Altered States Can End Shame & Create Empowered Living

In this episode of Ambitious ADHD, we delve into the profound impact of change work, particularly for women with ADHD.

After struggling to break through my client's narratives and self-judgment, adding in more tools for self-hypnosis and journeys to access their inner knowing and wisdom has been the game changer.  Not only have they been able to get into deep relaxed states quickly and easily but they can change the things that have been holding them back from being fully themselves. I encourage you to go on YouTube and find hypnosis and experiment and create your own with the recorder on your phone.

Episode Highlights:

• We explore how techniques like hypnosis offer a pathway to silence the inner critic and access deeper layers of the subconscious.
•  By slipping into trance states throughout the day, we often reinforce habitual patterns of thought and behavior. 
• How tapping into our creative unconscious, we can regulate our nervous systems enabling resourceful, states so we can take empowered action and say goodbye to years of self-shaming.
• We explore memory reconsolidation and the opportunity to defuse emotionally charged states that have been holding us hostage sometimes for decades

 Find Katie Here:
 Email: info@katiestibbs.com

Website:https://www.katiestibbs.com/

Powerful change work to return you to your most empowered resourceful state 
Practical protocols: To change any habits behaviors and thought processes and beliefs
that are holding you back, from experiencing your desired life
Tools to simplify your life and achieve happy success by embracing your authentic self.

Sara Robinson

Email: sara@sararobinsoncomms.co.uk

Website: Sara Robinson Communications: https://www.sararobinsoncomms.co.uk/

Award-winning PR Consultant, Trainer, Content Writer, and Labour Councillor in Cardiff.

Reach out to Sara for expert advice on PR and communication strategies, writing services and training.

Transcript

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the podcast ambitious ADHD, where we aim to change the conversation around neurodiversity, to talk about our challenges, our strengths, but to really learn to finally be ourselves because everyone else is taken. Hello and welcome to this episode of the podcast Ambitious ADHD. And I am very, very happy to tell you that I have got my co host back. Hello, Sarah.

Speaker B: Hello, Katie. Yay, I'm back. Sorry for abandoning you.

Speaker A: You've been very busy. You've been very busy. You are forgiving.

Speaker B: Oh, thank you so much. I've been off doing my writing course, which I was probably boring you about a few episodes ago, and it was great. It was amazing, it was brilliant. But there was no wifi, so you can imagine how anxiety inducing not having Wifi for almost a whole week was. But it's good to be back. So thank you. And also, I have to say, last week's episode, if people listening haven't heard last week's episode with Adele Whimsit, which is a special all about the hormonal cycle and how our hormones and our periods and then menopause impact ADHD symptoms, I'd really strongly recommend you go and listen to it. I learned so much in that episode. I know you did, too. So, yeah. Really would encourage people to go and listen to that. It really is a must listen, I think.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I really, really think we should have Adele back on because there's so much more that we can unpack with her because I just was realizing that I just do not know anything about my body right now, which is nuts. And it really did make me sit up and pay attention.

Speaker B: Oh, it was a great episode, honestly. So, yeah, it would be great to get Adele back very much. What are we doing today, Katie? What are we chatting about?

Speaker A: Well, I wanted to talk about the use of change work, and what I mean by that is kind of demystifying change work, which is kind of utilizing hypnosis trance states for positive change. And the reason why I feel very strongly about this is because I have found this kind of work now in my own work with people to be hugely beneficial with ADHD women in particular. And it is because I think so the pattern that I noticed was huge amount of talking because we love to talk, and me not being able to do any impactful because I'm not doing the work, but kind of breaking through that cycle of kind of reinforcing the story and the chatter to break through and even to get people to be able to know that they can change their state. So I have found laterally in the last probably six months that the use of hypnosis and trance work, which I'm going to go in and explain because I really think we need to demystify. This is so important, so people listening to this can go off, think about what we've discussed and said, and then find their own ways, and maybe they will start to think of this very differently.

Speaker B: Oh, my God, I'm so curious, and I'm so down for this because I'll admit it now. I know very little about change work. I know next to nothing about hypnosis, apart from one really positive experience that I had around giving up nicotine. Actually, I tried everything, and the only thing that worked for me was hypnosis, but it was a one time only thing. I didn't ask any questions. I didn't google it. I just thought it was like some kind of magic, some kind of crazy magic, and I was grateful for it. So I'm really curious about change work. And you talk about doing this with your clients, and these are ADHD clients. So are these people that come to you wanting to kind of change something in their life or they're struggling with recurring issues? Kind of. Where are you using this?

Speaker A: I use it all over the place, and it is like sprinkling magic, but it isn't magic at all because we're always in various trances throughout the day. So I can go into examples a little bit later. But, I mean, how powerful is that? Just in itself. Your one story there, you went to a hypnotist once and stopped smoking.

Speaker B: Yes. It blew my mind. I was so skeptical about it. I think because we've all seen the tv comedy sketches that kind of look into my eyes. Look into my eyes. Even the Snake in Jungle Book, I don't know if you remember the snake. That kind of real weird, kind of sorcery type vibe.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Hypnosis feels like something really kind of, oh, I don't know, just kind of a bit witchy in a way. What is it? I don't know.

Speaker A: I'm super. Maybe it's because I'm into it way more, and maybe it's because I'm listening to stuff around that, but I really feel that things are changing around that because I've always done kind of trance work, but I haven't called it hypnosis because we're actually always in some sort of trance.

Speaker B: Well, tell me about it.

Speaker A: I feel like, for example, a very clear example that everybody will get is that when we enter the cinema, when we focus our attention, our attention on the screen, we instantly have focused attention. And then simultaneously, because we've been trained since kids to watch tv and we kind of suspend our disbelief, we are able to push aside the critical faculty, which enables us to totally engage in the film, because if we didn't, we know realistically there's actors, there's a cameraman, there's like, yeah, that shark isn't real. And when we can jump, we can cry, we can feel immense fear. And that is a state of trauma.

Speaker B: That's a trance state. And can you give me another example? You said we are all in trans states all of the time.

Speaker A: Yes. So when we're watching tv, when we're driving, that is a very clear, especially for ADHD women, I find, because how many times have you ended up somewhere and you don't know actually how you got there?

Speaker B: So many times just do not remember the drive. Yeah, we've talked about before. It's a very ADHD thing, isn't it? I think to just completely zone out.

Speaker A: Completely zone out, which makes it even more kind of. People get this when I explain it, and it totally demystifies it. So when you're learning to ride a bike, for example, you remember how hard it was. I remember still now trying to learn to ride my bike. Once you've got the hang of it, that one time, the brain automates it and it goes into the unconscious mind. So less than 10% of our mind is our conscious mind. That is where our planning happens or not our ideas. And it's like, fully kind of. It takes a lot of energy, the 10% of the conscious mind. Right. But look how small that is. 90% of our mind is our unconscious mind, which hosts our immune system, our long term memories, our belief system, and 90% of it is unconscious.

Speaker B: Is that where our emotions come from?

Speaker A: Yes. So our emotions or long term memory, because anything that we do with repetition, any thoughts, any beliefs, any feelings, our mind just automates it because it wants to conserve our energy. So when you just put it like that, it's like, oh, my good God.

Speaker B: So they're like shortcuts on a keyboard.

Speaker A: Shortcuts. So anything done with repetition. So our ruminating thoughts, our shame, our habit of. They're all habits, they're all repetitive patterns that become habitual, that then get pushed into that unconscious mind.

Speaker B: And is this what you, when you're working with clients, then you teach them this and then you try and work with the 90%? Is that how it works? Absolutely.

Speaker A: Because basically we want to access that huge resource of creativity, of wisdom. There's so much resource there. But because most of it has been automated we are often functioning with limiting beliefs, ideas about ourselves that actually are no longer true when you explain it to people and when you actually, because I've spoken to you earlier, I have literally been creating my own hypnosis all weekend trying to kind of change stuff I wanted to change because I know it works and it's just incredibly powerful. And this isn't like trance states are done in conversation. It's a rhythm, it's a regulating of the nervous system with your person that you're talking to. You're getting them to resource and to find out what they would like to feel instead. And then you don't have to do a formal kind of hypnotic trance. But I mean people love that because it's really enjoyable anyway. But it can be done because we're always being hypnotized by marketing, by people in our lives and we don't realize we're doing this dance.

Speaker B: So you know when you're on a really good date, I don't know, it might have been a while because it has for me. But when you're on a really good date and you feel completely lost in the conversation, is that a trans state? Is that happening there? Wow.

Speaker A: So you've kind of pushed aside your critical faculty there. That chattering, criticizing, judgmental part of yourself and you're in a flow state. So people will pay a sports psychiatrist to a behavioral psychiatrist like 5000 quid to basically get them to do the things that we can do ourselves in visualizations when you are, they don't even necessarily go into a deep trance state. But just repetitive visualizations can update a performance by 40%. And as you could see, I was watching the athletics the other day and you could see all the high jumpers do their physical, they could do their imagery and their remembering. They were literally going through it and I was like oh my God. Yes. Because everyone knows that like highly trained athletes how important that is. And it's the same kind of thing.

Speaker B: Okay, so this is so curious about, I'm really excited about this because I hope you're going to help me understand what's going on when you're hypnotized. Because like I said, I've only been hypnotized once and I was so skeptical I went into that room thinking of this guy, some snake oil salesman and I've wasted my money and I was furious that I'd even ended up there but I was so desperate and I felt like I'd tried everything. I'd read all the Alan Carr books. I'd managed to stop for a while, and then I'd start again when I was stressed. And I still to this day, I remember putting on the headphones and him talking to me and me feeling really relaxed. And then I came kind of back in the room. It wasn't very long, and I left that room, and I've never felt like buying nicotine since. And I just don't feel like I need it. And that was last April, and this is the longest I've ever been. So whatever he did worked. And I'm really curious because you're using this with clients for all kinds of things, I imagine. What kind of things are people asking.

Speaker A: You to help with?

Speaker B: First of all, before we dive into.

Speaker A: How it works, okay. Yesterday morning, I was dealing with not somebody with ADHD, actually, but with a young person with chronic anxiety. So I taught her kind of protocols and tools, like the bilateral stimulation, which is like a rhythmic state that calms down the nervous system. All this is kind of hypnosis, self hypnosis, regulating the nervous system. Yeah, we down regulate and we're like, putting aside the critical factor so we can get underneath to the unconscious and make some new pathways. Because basically what we want to do is that when we've gone down a well worn pathway, which could be, I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough, it could be fear. Fear, fear, which is obviously anxiety. It could be drinking. Like, I'm drinking, I'm drinking too much, I'm drinking that impulse to drink, that habit. All of these are habits. Anxiety is a habit. Dare I say depression is a habit. Don't shoot me on that. But it is just a repetitive way of thinking. So what we want to do is, and what happens in hypnosis is that that pathway is deep rooted, wide and clear. Then the brain is habituated. So it just goes down there because it thinks that's what we want. Because obviously there's a lot of emotion attached to it. Anything with a lot of emotion attached to it is seen as something desirable for us to be automated because it's important. So it's like the pathway is long and it's wide. So what we need to do then is we need to put up a roadblock in that pathway. So when we come up against it, the brain has to reroute, rewire, go over the top of it, and a new pathway is formed.

Speaker B: And is this something we can do for ourselves, or is it something. Absolutely.

Speaker A: I teach my clients self hypnosis, and obviously there's a **** ton of hypnosis stuff out there. It's got a bad press because historically, it's been men with very self directed hypnosis telling people what to do. And it's such a. Because, you know, one of my favorite teachers is Melissa Tier, who I absolutely love. She's a hypnotist. She's a New Yorker. She teaches psychiatrists and practitioners. Doctors come to her because they are literally, what do I do with my patient? They realize that just talking is not going to do it. Right.

Speaker B: You're just so interested. You said just talking is not going to do it.

Speaker A: The talking is literally recreating the narratives that are keeping us stuck.

Speaker B: Wow. Okay. So, for years in therapy, I felt like I was not making any progress at all, because I don't know about you, I do think this is an ADHD thing. I verbalize things in order to process them, and so I find myself session after session, just talking about the same things over and over again. But I felt like I wasn't making any progress at all. And I felt like I'd hear people talking about how good talking therapy was for them. And I appreciated the privilege of having a space to talk to somebody about what was going on for me, but I didn't necessarily feel like I was moving forward at all. And I think it's because I was just talking myself into this cycle. So you're saying that, is that something that you see in ADHD?

Speaker A: It's something that I absolutely see. And because I didn't necessarily have ADHD clients before I had a mixture of clients, it became so obvious to me, and I just thought, oh, my gosh, this client has literally, I've learned now just on a roll, just, like, talking and talking and talking and getting more in pain. More in pain. I just thought, I've got to stop this. So there's a dance, because obviously, you want to keep rapport with your people that you're working with, but sometimes you've got to shock people into change. So there's many different ways, but sometimes just stop and do something really weird to just break the habit, break the pattern and the cycle of this repetition, this talking.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And actually, what I've found is that if you ask any of my people that I've worked with, I reckon they would probably say, well, in fact, they've told me themselves. Oh, my God. I didn't realize that I could relax like that because just as a relaxation process for them to stop their brains and to go into a deep state of relaxation where actually the mind is very alive, to be honest. And that's why it's so open to suggestion. But meditation and hypnosis feel very similar, but they're slightly different. So I do a mixture of everything, but giving people the skills just in of itself. To know that they can relax in that deep way is like a medicine.

Speaker B: Okay, this is mind blowing to me, and I get what you mean, because when I came out of my hypnosis, I felt like I'd been asleep for hours and I felt so chilled, it was amazing. So let's say for people at home, they're thinking they're interested in self hypnosis. They want to be able to access some of these tricks and be able to do them for themselves. What do they need to know? What do you want people at home to know about how they can hypnotize themselves or use some of these techniques to help them?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, let me just think. So as a very simple induction for yourself, it is knowing yourself and just, even just simply counting down from one to ten, seeing the number in front of you and letting the number fade as it goes. So, number one and letting it fade. Just practice with things that make you really relaxed. And you can just imagine sense of relaxation coming all the way down your body, all the way into your feet, and just telling yourself, giving yourself a direction. My feet are so heavy now. And just simple things like that will give the brain, especially an ADHD brain, something to do and focus on, but it will very quickly. And the more the body knows that it can get into that deep state, the more you can go into trance like that. So firstly, it is that. And then secondly, always suggest things in the positive, because what I've also found is a lot of people that I work with find it really difficult to actually say what they want. They only know what they don't want. So if you're creating your own deep state is like, I am growing, expanding, learning, whatever it is. And the unconscious mind knows you better well, knows you so well that you could just offer general suggestions and it will literally put it together for you of what you need. So you could be saying, I am, you know, I'm growing, I expanding, I'm accessing my unconscious mind to put together all of the strengths and the resources I need to create this new business or blah, blah, blah, whatever. And you start playing with it, and it's incredible because the unconscious mind, you see, once you relaxed, you can access all of this freaking wisdom.

Speaker B: Wow. The 90%, that's how 90%. Wow. This is amazing. So for someone like me who has, we talked about this a lot. I struggle to meditate until I learned in a very particular way my go to is technology. So I always think there's got to be something out there that can help me with this stuff. So a bit like, I knew I wanted to do yoga in lockdown because I had so much more time at home, but there's no way I would have sat down and learned yoga moves out of a book. I went straight to Adrienne on YouTube and she. Are there any resources? You said there's loads. But what should people Google? What are they searching for? Help. Find the resources to help them with some of this.

Speaker A: You know what? In fact, I might start creating some. I mean, insight timer has, like, sleep meditations and sleep hypnosis and other. Have you heard of that app?

Speaker B: I use it and I love it. I use it every day to time my meditation. But I've never used any of the guided meditations.

Speaker A: Yeah, but absolutely loads. So there's bound to be something there for you. In terms of hypnosis specifically. There's loads of things on YouTube that are kind of vague and generative, which is fine, but if you want something specific and you really want to do this, you don't want to pay anybody to help you, which I absolutely get. Start creating your own on your voice Recorder.

Speaker B: Just talk to yourself. Okay.

Speaker A: Yes. Record your own. This is what I always do.

Speaker B: Do you tell me more. Tell me more.

Speaker A: Of course I do, because obviously I'm trained in hypnosis, so it's easier for me. But if I just went on to Spotify, for example, there's lots of very male kind of people on there, but you'll get the gist of the induction that you like. That's going to make you go, what you want to change, what you want to alter, and you just create your own script.

Speaker B: Wow. So this is really interesting because last year I had a couple of EMDR sessions. I don't know if you had an EMDR.

Speaker A: Yes, I know Emdr.

Speaker B: And actually, as part of that, I've just remembered that we wrote a little script together and then I recorded it. And part of the work between the sessions was that I had to listen to this every night before I went to sleep. So I didn't think of that as hypnosis at the time. I wasn't sure what it was. If I'm honest. But that is exactly what you're talking about here, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yes. And what I also want to talk about is something called memory reconsolidation. So this is part of the kind of change work. And I just think this is fascinating because it means that we can really go about changing or updating. So I don't want people to think that people can go inside your brain. You are actually in control of everything. But what really we want to do is that there's many. So this is an example. I had a client that was very kind of agitated loads of energy. But when we really got to it, it was a memory of something that was absolutely stopping her in her tracks. And it wasn't the memory that you would think it was. There was lots of past violence and it was now stopping her, even though she's in a really lovely relationship, enjoying herself on holiday and being free and dancing. Right.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: We could go back to a specific memory and we can do this. Talking doesn't have to be in a book. I mean, obviously I'm going to use it. I use it always. So talking first, then in a deeper state of relaxation. And we can literally go into that memory because it's got to be specific and we've got to activate that neural network because we can't just think about, we've got to be like kind of in it for a minute and then we can activate and update and change that with that inner wiser going to that younger part of herself with her older, wiser self and just giving herself the healing and updating the emotional charge so it dissipates. And when the mind knows that that is changed, it's like a thought error that has been given new information. It then trickles down to every other memory that is similar. It just kind of trickles down and it just starts to change the charge. And we start kind of being able to be resourceful and flexible and be able to deal with things in a much less painful way.

Speaker B: Okay, so if it's a painful memory, as with your client, it's about taking you back to that place. So you can, those feelings just briefly.

Speaker A: Just needs to be activated. Just briefly. So if I was talking. So this is the meta model. So you go in, you activate it, because you've got to get to that neural pathway. You got to get to those neural connections. You've got to stimulate them, right?

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: They've got to be stimulated. And then we shake it off if we were talking and then we go back in there with imagine now feeling all the feelings that she wanted to feel, the states and bring that state into the body in a physical way. Does it feel like blah, blah, blah? And then we loop it around again and again, so the pathway starts to be changed.

Speaker B: Wow. So I think we didn't explain. Sorry, the acronym EMDR, did we? And I think it's something like eye movement, don't ask me. I had a couple of sessions, but this is essentially what we were doing. We were taking a painful memory from childhood and we were focusing on going back there, which I found quite difficult. And actually, it kind of put me off it, because I had friends who'd had EMDR, and they said, the tough bit is you have to go back there in order to change it. And I know we've talked about this before, but I know it's a joint theory that we have that many people will do anything to avoid feeling difficult things. And so the thought of having to go back somewhere in order to change it might feel scary. But actually, when I did it, I felt held and I felt safe. And I think probably this is the benefit of doing it with a trained practitioner, as opposed to doing it for yourself. Actually, if it's kind of very painful stuff.

Speaker A: Absolutely. The memory reconsolidation, you need somebody, but yes, you need somebody to do it with you. And obviously, you'd only do it if somebody was really wanted to change that. And you could do it in a much more gentler way. You can do that with EFT, that emotional freedom technique, no tears trauma technique of EFT. All of these things are the know, they're activating and changing that neural pathway. All roads lead to Rome, really. So ever way works for you. But with that EFt, when you're tapping, you can tap through trauma and not have to say a word. And actually, you don't have to in EmDR. You don't have to access that in. Or maybe you did, I don't know. I didn't have to.

Speaker B: I'm not sure. She was an EMDR practitioner, and to this day, I'm not quite sure what I had, if you see what I mean. I think I was kind of being used as a bit of a guinea pig. It was a friend of a friend type situation. So I don't know if it was actually a completely different technique. But I do remember when she said, we're going to have to go back to this place when you were four and this horrible thing happened. I would think, well, no, don't. That's the last place I want to go. But then you realize, well, that's ridiculous, because I've been carrying it around. The pain has been there all this time. I've just buried it. I've just buried it. And actually I just find it incredibly, incredibly powerful. It felt like it kind of. What's the best word to describe it? It sort of diffused or took all the blackness of the pain away. So if it was a color now, it would probably be gray. That particular memory, I know that it was thing that happened, but it really did shift something in me. I have no idea what it was, but I'm just curious that this is essentially this memory reconsolidation. So kind of accessing those deep memories, even if they're not that painful, but they were just. They're memories that are stopping you or kind of stopping you from living your life in a full way.

Speaker A: It could be superficial to other people, it could be an experience where you walked into the classroom when you were ten and everyone started laughing at you because your dress was tucked into your pants. And that created this.

Speaker B: An actual real memory. Yeah.

Speaker A: I've got many that I've done this with myself. One of them, this big one of real shame. I've mentioned it before when I had to go and work with my auntie and I couldn't file. And just that it's nothing to anybody else, but for me that has colored and filtered down because my unconscious mind has been put into the unconscious, an automated pattern, because so much emotion attached. So I was able to go in there with my wiser self and give it the updated emotion that was needed to make me more resourceful. That's so powerful.

Speaker B: You were saying? I hope it's okay to say this, but you mentioned something about realizing that people rolling their eyes at you has a huge impact on you and that was linked to a memory. I was curious. Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because my partner, well he stopped it now so much because he knows, but he'll do it again if I don't remind him. This kind of eye rolling, this sighing, this real critical. Well, this look that to me created, oh my God, off the scale pain, like shame, judgment. And it was like I couldn't get a handle on it. So I went in, I did my own hypnosis and went in to ask my unconscious mind to give me when that happened, blah, blah, blah. And I realized that I love my mum and she's the best mum ever. But when we were younger, due to lots of hormones, that we didn't realize, she had a really tough time. Terrible endometriosis blah, blah, blah. So that was where it came from. Like, real.

Speaker B: Her eyes at you? Is that what you.

Speaker A: My mum used to roll her eyes. She would sometimes be very critical. And I felt at that age, young, judgmental. This was really young. And I had no memory, really, of that because subsequently, I mean, she's just been incredible and she's been the greatest, best parent ever. But I was like, oh, my God. It's that triggering me combined with that is activated. They've got the same emotional charge.

Speaker B: So even though you didn't remember your mum eye rolling at you, something in the 90% so the subconscious had remembered and held onto that. And then when it was happening to you as an adult in your relationship, the emotional response was coming from somewhere you didn't even recognize. And had you not hypnotized or had you not had the tools to be able to kind of undergo that level of self inquiry, you might not actually know where that came from, right.

Speaker A: No. And you don't have to know where it came from, but it was so off the scale for me that I knew there was something else going on. And so I thought, right, this is worth exploring here, seeing as I have got the tools. And then I was like, oh, my God. It's literally the same triggers and anchors. And what I want to say is we have so many anchors and triggers in our daily life that are generating these general responses, not in correlation to what's actually happening, but we don't realize. No, because they're unconscious.

Speaker B: Yeah. So why does something in particular set you off? Why that particular thing is a tone.

Speaker A: Of voice for someone. It could be like a movement, it could be anything. This is what is happening all the time.

Speaker B: Wow. So I'm so cute. This is amazing to me. So what you have, I guess, and what you're able to use with your clients is a set of tools that allow you to become a bit like a detective for your own brain. So kind of really working out what's going on for you when those kind of above the level or above the line emotions are all kicking off, really investigating. Why is that? What does that remind me of? Even if it's in a really kind of deeply subconscious way and why is it making me feel this way? And then by going into them, you can kind of change the narrative. Although I probably completely oversimplified it, but.

Speaker A: No, you didn't. That's exactly it. But people don't really understand that we're in a trance all the time anyway. It's not something that somebody's doing to us, everything is hypnosis. When we're watching the tv and the adverts and the way people, the language that's being used, everything in marketing is a form of hypnosis.

Speaker B: What about reading? So that's one of the few times where I find time can just go so quickly. I lose time when I'm reading trance.

Speaker A: Yeah. Honestly, when people really think, really understand this, it's like, oh, yeah, of course. So it's no big deal, but it's totally underutilized.

Speaker B: Well, this is amazing. I've got this whole other narrative about the word trance, by the way. It's actually just a really bad anecdote involving a trip to Paris when a friend and I misheard somebody in a know on reception in a club say that it was a trance night and were we sure that we wanted to go in. And we said, well, we can't find anywhere else open, so that'll do. Although I absolutely am not a fan of german dance music, turns out we realized once we got in, it was a trans night, not a trans. So we were the only women in there as women born women, and we still laugh about that, how we misheard the word trance. Now I'm thinking about trances in a whole different way. So thank you. Realize, but actually that idea of being in the trance. But we can do it to ourselves, or we can go out and look for resources online, or we can work with accredited and trained practitioners like yourself who can help us really access. I'll be obsessed with this idea. Now, the idea is that's above that diagram of an iceberg. You see, sometimes we see is just such a small bit. Most of it is under the surface. And I don't think so many of us kind of realize that. And I think, I'm really curious why this works so well for ADHD clients. Because when we were talking about discussing this on today's episode, you said, this is such a powerful technique for the people that you work with who have ADHD. Just curious. You mentioned it's because we can often end up talking or over ruminating too much. We struggle to make process. But I'm just curious anecdotally why you think this works particularly well for other women like us.

Speaker A: Well, through experience, I just simply think the ability of knowing that they can, because most people have never meditated, most people have never sat with themselves with ADHD because we're on this constant. So just the ability for me to instigate this, like, oh, God. And obviously the brain loves novelty so it's like, oh, this is interesting. And then to actually find themselves in a deep relaxation in like five minutes, that in and of itself is just so powerful for game changing with ADHD.

Speaker B: It'S genuinely life changing if you have never known that silence or that peace. I remember the first time I meditated successfully, which was not that long ago in this scale of my life. And I remember coming out of it and feeling almost as blissful, if not as blissful as opiates that I've had after operations. That kind of sense of just being so warm and so calm and my brain was so quiet, like all the tabs had closed down. And I just thought, oh, my God, I could become addicted to this. And I am, because now I do it twice a day, every day because I know I can get there now and I don't get there in every meditation. It's rare that I ever get to that state, but I get close to it and it's so addictive when it happens, particularly if you've spent your life thinking you're not capable of that or that's only a state that other people can reach. Does that make sense?

Speaker A: Exactly. And I'll have to do hypnosis with you, Sarah, because it's slightly different, but yet when we can record it, because it'd be interesting to see if you see any difference because you can get deep really quick.

Speaker B: I'm so down for that. I only like getting deep really quick. We don't do shutdown, do we teach deep women? We only do deep. I'll be absolutely up for that. Thank you very much. What a lovely offer and what a lovely perk for me. Yeah, great. So for people listening at home now who can go off and download insight timer, which is free, there's loads of stuff on YouTube, but if they wanted to find somebody to guide them through this stuff or to kind of teach them and they prefer that personal approach, I know this obviously is a service that you offer, but what should they be looking for if they're going out seeking? Is there kind of any accreditation or what questions should they be asking of people?

Speaker A: The good question that I don't really know the answer to. I got my qualification about 15 years ago.

Speaker B: So I guess we need to make sure that they are trained.

Speaker A: Yes, if that is specifically hypnosis, but I know loads of coaches because it is such a natural state. Yeah, I'm sure we need to be if that's what specifically we're going for. But I know lots of coaches with coach accreditations that will use meditative states with their clients, and it's pretty similar.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Whether I'm saying the right thing here, I just don't want people to be overly cautious about this because you basically can access this yourself.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: I guess very easily curious if people.

Speaker B: Are a bit scared of it in that way, that you haven't done it before and you want that help and you want somebody. I guess it's about trusting a bit like therapy, you need to make sure that you trust the person and that you feel like they will hold a safe space for you.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. And obviously, I would always go to a woman anyway.

Speaker B: Well, you know what? That's interesting because my hypnosis was with a man, and that was part of the reason I thought, this is just not going to work. But I couldn't find. I was actually looking for a female, and I couldn't find anybody who specialized in this particular thing. Not locally, anyway. But, yeah. So our advice is look for a woman. Make sure that if it's hypnosis that you're going for or that memory reconsolidation, then make sure that they've got relevant experience and training and a track record in doing that work. But otherwise, there's a huge amount out there that you can access for yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would go and play knowing that this is, like, how your brain works and you can empower yourself to absolutely change it.

Speaker B: Wow. What type of things would you. We talked about negative self talk, but what type of issues might listeners be grappling with?

Speaker A: I used it this afternoon with one of my clients who's a guy who is opening another arm to his business. And it's really exciting. So we just went on a journey and we went. And it's really relaxing and is metaphorical, and we used lots of nature, and then we asked the unconscious mind to kind of tap into this kind of vault where he got information about what he needed to do next. So it can be very whimsical and very like, because that's how the unconscious works. It works metaphorically. You don't have to be directive. It works much better, actually, if it can be used to find its own wisdom.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: He wanted more information about that, which he absolutely got. And he was like, came and he was just amazed. And then other people might want to be able to public speak, start getting on stages and talking about their ****.

Speaker B: Oh, my God. This could be the thing that you help me with. So I hate, believe it or not, I hate public speaking. Really hate it. I cannot tell you the physical impact and the dysregulated nervous system I get before I need to speak. And in about time, I need to do a big speech in front of 250 people about my neurodiversity and about my diagnosis experience. And so it feels really personal. Are you up for helping me?

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Great example. And it would be amazing to see if that could help me just because I always get through it. But I would really like for the few days. Well, it's not just days. Weeks be enjoyable leading up to it not be.

Speaker A: Hell, yes. To just shift things. To shift things around and to just be more free and excitement so close to the fear of that. And it can be so fun.

Speaker B: I want to feel excited or I want to feel not this kind of knot of dread that I carry around with me. So I'm going to hold you to that. You're going to help me hypnotize me.

Speaker A: I literally will. We'll go to the little memories that could have be holding you back, and then we'll also do a generative amazing.

Speaker B: Can you feel like this is something we could do for an episode? Is it ethical to record it? Because I'm up for it if you are.

Speaker A: I suppose we could.

Speaker B: Okay, let's give it a go. Okay. And then we can decide what to do with it, depending on what comes out, I suppose.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, you take it and you play it over and over again and you play around with it and it will shift things.

Speaker B: Amazing. Okay, well, this has been like every day is a school day and all that. I've learned so much because I'm always curious about how you work with clients and what you do. And I was really glad that we kind of had the space to deep dive into this a little bit more today. And it was really interesting about your client this afternoon. You said that once he got to that kind of meditative state, he was able to find a way forward in terms of what he needed to do next. I found that since I've started meditating, I solve problems much more easy because solutions come to me when I'm meditating. And sometimes they're really not obvious, and they're definitely not things that I would have landed on in my conscious mind in the course of a busy day. Does that make sense?

Speaker A: It makes absolute sense. And that's exactly what we're doing here. We're clearing the space for the wisdom to rise.

Speaker B: Oh, wow. This is super exciting. I'm glad that it's not just me and that it is a thing.

Speaker A: What a benefit that's huge, isn't it?

Speaker B: It's huge. And I'm really curious to just see how hypnosis goes for me personally. But just thank you for being so open about your techniques and for being so kind of pleasure.

Speaker A: I just feel it's so important for people to realize and the empowerment that this gives you rather than the repeating of the story. And I don't mean that in a horrible way, but whatever we talking about ourselves and telling others is our repetitive story that just gets embedded and embedded and reinforced. And that's great if it's a positive one, but if it's full of shame and that's no good to us.

Speaker B: And often that self talk, the things we tell other people are the things we've heard about ourselves our whole life, isn't it? You're scatty, you're forgetful, you can't manage, you can't.

Speaker A: Adult becomes automated.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then we tell ourselves this and it becomes our reality, and that's how other people experience us. So, yeah, I can see exactly why this would be so powerful for listeners as well as us, too. So thank you. What a lovely way to spend an hour finding out about the uncontested mind. Thank you very much.

Speaker A: It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. And, yeah, well, hopefully I'll speak to you soon.

Speaker B: See you on the next episode.

Speaker A: All right, lots of love. Bye bye. I just wanted to add a really.

Speaker C: Important point that I kind of failed to make, and that is when I'm talking about the mind with any changing of states and the work that is included in my work, I'm talking about the body mind, not just the cognitive mind. So mind body, we are always connecting and talking to the whole body. So integrating in talking to the heart, brain, the tummy brain, and obviously what people conceptually think of as mind. So it is integrating all of those parts and components and concepts, however you'd like to, whatever you'd like to call that. So ultimately, we are healing, we are connecting, we are getting past the critical voice to go into our unconscious, creative mind, to soothe, to rewrite things that no longer serve us, to explore, to expand, to create a wellness of mind body. So we can be absolutely resourceful and to be able to do our best work, live our best lives, have great relationships. This changing of state is so much more powerful than we think, and we are, of course, changing our state and hypnotizing ourselves with our self talk nearly all of the time. So just wanted to make that clear that this is a whole mind body spirit connection I'm talking about here.

Speaker A: Enjoy. Thank you for joining us. I hope you enjoyed the episode. If you would like more of this kind of stuff, join us at we love pupil school. For people that want to create lasting relationships, great communication and build a life that means that they can be fully themselves. Thank you for listening.