Turning Trauma Into Treasure – The Magic of Jenny Lynne Sessions ( Jen- IX )

In this episode of NeuroHappy, we’re joined by the luminous Jenny Lynn Sessions ( Jen- IX) — a multidimensional force of nature, creativity, and deep healing.

Jen - IX  is a natural-born, song-led shaman, visionary, storyteller, healer, transpersonal therapist, and all-round creative catalyst. Her life and work span the mystical and the practical — from international workshops and firewalking to poetry, intuitive channeling, and soul-led singing.

In this conversation, we explore:

• How a near-death experience in 2009 became the catalyst for a new way of living
• What it means to “become your own medicine”
• The healing power of nature, sacred song, drumming, and humour
• Living and creating from neurodivergent brilliance
• What it’s like to walk with elders, shamans, and spiritual leaders — and remain utterly, wildly yourself

With roots in deep ancestral wisdom and wings in the multidimensional realms, Jennicks invites us to honour the interconnectedness of all life and reclaim the magic in our own stories.

✨ Expect soul truths, big belly laughs, and moments that crack the heart wide open.

Resources & Links:

• Find Jen- IX : Become Your Own Medicine
• Her latest book : Pheonix Rising : contact Jen to purchase

What Daisy & Katie do:

 Neurohappy.life  Katie helps people regulate their nervous systems- so they     can stay calm experience inner peace and live happily- working with their  whole system mind/body- using mind inquiry - dissolving unconscious beliefs. breath, emotion work and guided meditative process

 Breathwithdaisy Daisy helps people literally breathe properly so they can                   experience the power of breath can transform the way people live, providing a         gateway to inner peace and renewed energy

Our Workshops: We combine our skills to support people: Learn powerful skills to  regulate their nervous systems - Live life- comfortable in their own skin

Transcript

00:03] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Neuro Happy podcast. Daisy and I are so excited this season to be interviewing people in our area, which is Sussex. Now we are interviewing exciting,

[00:14] lovely people that might have businesses or an exciting story. So we're really hoping to expand the narrative to get different people's perspectives that are neurodiverse but also that are neurotypical, that may live, have family members that are neurodiverse or or work, have businesses with people that are neurodiverse.

[00:33] So we're really hoping that you enjoy this season.

[00:37] You are so welcome.

[00:49] Hello and welcome to another episode of the podcast.

[00:53] Today we have a remarkable guest. Her name is Jenny Lynn Sessions. Jennicks and Jennings is a truly unique expression of life, a creative catalyst for change and transformation and wildly widely recognized as a natural born song led shaman, spiritual teacher,

[01:13] visionary,

[01:15] storyteller, healer and transpersonal therapist.

[01:18] She runs international workshops one to one bespoke group sessions. She's an author, presenter, poet, artist, singer, songwriter and intuitive channel, a transformational speaker, fire walker instructor.

[01:32] Honoring the interconnectedness of all life, the profound healing power of nature and the glorious gift of humor. She uses drum voice, sacred song to harmonize discordant energies. Gen X opens multi dimensional doorways through which to journey and heal.

[01:49] She has walked with many spiritual leaders and shamans. The wisdom of the elders underpins her work.

[01:56] Facing death in 2009 with a severely fractured spine, Jennick's recommitted to life with a new frequency, becoming her own medicine, turning trauma to treasure. This is what she teaches with passion, compassion and gratitude.

[02:11] Magic always surrounds her and she happens to be neurodiverse.

[02:21] So Gen X, where do we start?

[02:23] There's so much in there, but what comes to me is goes back to the conversation we've been having before we started recording.

[02:30] And what pulls out of you is love. And that seems to be absolutely central to everything that you do, whether it's the writing or the singing,

[02:38] the healing work.

[02:40] Can you talk to us a little bit about how this idea or this central,

[02:46] what's the word I'm looking for, this sort of central idea of love came to you? When did you first realize that that had to be at the heart of everything that you do?

[02:55] Speaker B: I think you learn about love when you don't have it, if you know what I mean. And it feels like I did have love. I had a lot. I had an incredible mum who was a beautiful son to fema, was a beautiful being.

[03:10] But she was in a lot of panic and in a lot of pain and so she would overprotect me in many, many ways. Which was both very good for me and also stifled me I think to some degree.

[03:22] So I learned that love was being smothered and not breathing and not being able to stretch myself. And I'm quite a different type of person. And I needed the opposite to what I got emotionally.

[03:33] I totally understood that she gave me everything she had to give.

[03:36] But because of the mixed messages it felt like I missed myself. I didn't actually know what loving me was about.

[03:43] And so I learned like most of us to be a people pleaser, to decide I didn't like certain things and go and wreck the joint. Right.

[03:51] All sorts of things. But I didn't see at that time the importance of love weaving through because I didn't have self love. But I felt very judged and I felt very judgmental of myself and have had to deal with my critic over time.

[04:04] But slowly as I've grown older, I've really realized that the only thing that matters is that self love. And I think we come here on our own individual journeys to figure out what that is.

[04:14] Because I've not met many people who have it. Few people.

[04:17] But generally that bedrock of confidence, self love,

[04:22] security,

[04:24] heartfelt,

[04:25] able to rest and be comfortable in comfort where they are.

[04:30] It's something you learn and you acquire. And I definitely think anxiety was a big thread running through my life. And I was on the run some of the time. Yeah.

[04:39] And it's literally only through living a very strange life in many ways because I didn't realize for many years that my path was a shamanic path until I was acknowledged by wisdom keepers.

[04:51] And a bit like being neurodivergent. It's suddenly I thought, my God, that makes sense. And I don't fit into any normal box here. Yeah. But my mum didn't understand anything wasn't normal.

[05:01] Despite the fact that she had an amazingly big heart.

[05:03] My father was like me. But he left when I was three and a half months old.

[05:08] So there was lots of kind of confusion. And I felt like a powerhouse of something that I didn't understand at that time. Squashed into a matchbox.

[05:17] Speaker A: Yeah.

[05:17] And that's what life can feel like sometimes, isn't it? These layers of judgment. So it doesn't sound like the layers of judgment were coming from your mum. Maybe some misunderstanding, Love with misunderstanding.

[05:26] Or was there kind of an ease in your relationship?

[05:30] Speaker B: I think her love was absolutely apparent in so many ways.

[05:34] But I think she was parenting me as many parents often do from a place of A wounded child.

[05:40] Speaker A: Yeah.

[05:40] Speaker B: So when she was triggered and didn't know where to go or didn't know how to cope, then as. As we do, as we grow up and we pick similar relationships.

[05:49] Speaker A: Yes.

[05:50] Speaker B: You know, we end up creating that negativity or conflict or disharmony, that familiar.

[05:55] Speaker A: Place, even if it's not helpful for us.

[05:57] Speaker B: And yet,

[05:58] if you look at it on another level, that was the seed for the learning that perhaps I chose to come in and figure out this time because it's only by starting to think I can't make that person say or do what I want.

[06:10] So I feel better. Oh my God. I'm either going to have to nut them again or go and actually look in my own mirror.

[06:17] Speaker A: Yes.

[06:18] Speaker B: And then started to come back into that sort of simplistic way I'm describing it. But it's like I can only change that within me. And if I can recognize that disquiet and uncomfortability within myself, I can start to change my energy field, change my frequency.

[06:32] And if I change my frequency, I can shift out of the dynamic because no longer will that dynamic live. If one person is very different. Yes. Either the untenable end or harmony we can find between us and come back and find a bridge to communication.

[06:46] But it rests, I think, on compassion. Yeah. For self. And being able to look at how powerful our own inner judgments are, especially when they're repeated from ancestral judgments and stuff we bring in.

[06:57] Speaker A: And what time, at what point in your life did you realize that? And then how did that kind of. How does that pathway come about?

[07:04] Speaker B: About five minutes ago.

[07:08] You know, were you always self aware or was this kind of. I was studying mysticism when I was 18, 16 and was. Was privy to some very extraordinary people.

[07:20] Okay. But I didn't really.

[07:22] I just thought that was normal. Everyone did it.

[07:24] Speaker A: How did you find them? Yeah, sorry. How did you find these people? Because it. They didn't. They didn't come through the conventional school system.

[07:30] Speaker B: Well, it was quite. That first one was quite funny really.

[07:35] Rod Stewart's guitarist,

[07:37] an amazing man called Martin Quitman.

[07:40] He wrote Maggie May you wear it well. Somehow or other, I heard one day while I was standing in a music shop at Worthing that he was moving to the area.

[07:47] So I gathered up my big sack load of lyrics and went to find him and sat on his doorstep until he came home and then introduced myself. Wow. And said, I'm a songwriter, I need to see you.

[07:58] Can I come in?

[07:59] We became friends for nine years and he was. He was Giving up the music business at the time because he was a very sensitive soul like us.

[08:07] And the music business had knocked him for a big six. And he actually, he finally gave up and planted 13,000 trees in Anglesey and kind of stepped away from the music.

[08:16] But he was one of the world's greatest songwriters and we were going to write an album together.

[08:21] But that man was so beautiful. And he said a friend of his worked a lot with.

[08:29] Well, he was actually.

[08:31] He was actually a psychiatrist,

[08:32] but he worked right the way through onto the spiritual level. Said he said, oh, you must meet him one day.

[08:37] So I met him and then through him he introduced me to another woman and I started doing.

[08:43] Working with. With the God. It's not what I said now.

[08:47] Mystic.

[08:50] Completely forgotten the word I use as well.

[08:52] Doesn't matter.

[08:53] Speaker A: Doesn't matter.

[08:54] Speaker B: It was mystery schools. Okay.

[08:56] And.

[08:57] And they were very pure people. You know, not. Not anybody with dogma and not trying to convince you to be a this or that.

[09:03] And I find it fascinating. And it's like my whole life has always been seen through a lens.

[09:08] But sometimes people will then go and do a workshop and acquire a new lens,

[09:13] which is nothing wrong with. But it's like I came in with that lens. And I've been told in many, many past lives I've been a shaman.

[09:20] Has some amazing, incredible stories that I now weave into storytelling.

[09:24] And it makes sense with some of the things that are both gifts and struggles in this life that they're rooted somewhere far back.

[09:31] Speaker A: Yeah.

[09:32] Speaker B: So I feel like I arrive with a certain amount of it. I'm receptive to those things and they've kind of naturally grown as I've traveled a bumpy journey to try and arrive more in my heartful self.

[09:46] Speaker A: And is that something that is ongoing with every encounter? Is there a place of arrival or is it just a never ending unfolding of new.

[09:57] Speaker B: I feel like it's an arrival in every moment which then becomes the next impetus for the unfolding of the next moment. So everything's an arrival, but it's all an unfolding. It's probably a never ending story.

[10:10] Speaker A: It sounds in your life like there've been people who've come in and there are no accidents and one thing has led to another. Because this, this period in your life when you were through your formative years and being a teenager and then starting to do this work and connect to the heart,

[10:24] did that then lead directly onto the experiences you had in America? How did you go from studying?

[10:31] Speaker B: I was a very,

[10:33] very unhappy teenager. And I was very cross about being on the planet. I didn't like it at all.

[10:37] Which actually was reflected back in a meeting with an African shaman who was an amazing woman who said to me when she first met me, my rights, you shouldn't be here.

[10:46] It's amazing you're still on the planet because circumstances had aligned to try and push me off, shall we say.

[10:57] And she also said, what was it?

[11:00] She said, you've come here to learn how to be human, haven't you? But you don't think much of it.

[11:06] Absolutely. And I remember saying, no, I don't really.

[11:10] I think I kind of got dropped off and stopped too early or something.

[11:13] And in previous situations I've also been told that,

[11:16] you know, to some people hearing this might sound bonkers,

[11:20] but that many of my incarnations have been in this place, they've been in other places which through exploration I've discovered some incredible things and I have a very open mind.

[11:32] I absolutely can't say this is the way and this is how it is.

[11:36] I think we all have a different pathway trajectory and there's no right or wrong, but we.

[11:42] It's important to try and learn to become as conscious as we can, as open hearted as well, and generous spirited to what is ours and what may not be ours and what is somebody else's that isn't ours, and to meet it with a.

[11:54] With a kindness. But I found my teenage years really difficult.

[11:58] And my dad was absent, my mom was struggling and my sister really didn't like me.

[12:03] And I was kind of like, all I wanted to be is a rock star.

[12:07] Right.

[12:08] So I was very happy that my dad, when he occasionally was around,

[12:12] would never shut the toilet door, always have the radio on and I would learn songs and load them backwards and, and do funny dances and what have you. But in the back of my mind, all I wanted to be was a rock star.

[12:24] And I know that was probably for the wrong reasons. It was because I wanted thousands of people to go, you are amazing. We love you.

[12:30] Speaker A: Yeah.

[12:30] Speaker B: That's all I wanted.

[12:31] Speaker A: Yeah.

[12:31] Speaker B: And laugh at. Yeah, exactly. I wanted what I've become a conduit for.

[12:36] Yeah. So badly. And it was like I did have it, but I didn't have it in a place that I could meet it or it could meet me.

[12:42] Speaker A: No, you love the illusion of that, of what you see as being adoration from the outside rather than the self love that you've been talking about.

[12:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, also I think the frequency of love that I was able to get as a Child didn't mean it wasn't there, but the quality or the frequency of it that would meet me or I could meet wasn't meeting me.

[13:02] Which also sets me and probably many other people similar on a path of thinking, am I worthy?

[13:08] Am I okay?

[13:10] Am I loved even? And all this doubt that spins around and creates gravitas with stories.

[13:17] And as we all know,

[13:18] it's very easy to attract similar experiences that anchor these stories that aren't actually true, but become a truth. Yes. That is a truth that can disturb us from the actual truth.

[13:28] Yeah. And it feels to me like we're walking on.

[13:31] There's a saying that I love called. I don't know whether I wrote it or somebody else did,

[13:36] but it is when the soul is undisturbed, the soul is undeterred. Her mission is already complete.

[13:44] And it feels like we come in here knowing much more than where than is available to us.

[13:50] And there are moments when those blocks move away and we see the light and we go, oh, yeah. And we can see a little bit further how to carry on on the path that's taking us home to a soul place.

[14:01] Through an integration of wherever we are and what our journey has brought.

[14:05] And at other times we're searching desperately for. For some kind of feedback or connection that says, you're okay, you're doing it right. You're on the right track. Yeah. That aligns with what we feel inside as well as outside.

[14:16] And it's like buildings and leaves fall on the floor and just disturb this kind of light that's always pulsing and saying, don't worry, I'm here. Just be quiet. Go still.

[14:26] Come back to yourself and listen.

[14:28] Listen with your. With your eyes shut. Listen with your eyes open.

[14:31] And you will know that there is.

[14:35] That you are walking your walk. And sometimes that walk is so painful or scary or frightening or discombobulating or just everything that you didn't want it to be.

[14:46] But at the same time,

[14:48] there's another part I found for myself that's gone.

[14:52] I feel like it's part of my soul choices of what I came here to learn.

[14:56] So how can I turn this into treasure rather than it just being trauma? And if I have sat in the trauma too long and it's disturbed me and my wholeness of being,

[15:06] then how can I learn from it? To be able to anchor the disturbance of emotion that's created so that I can gift it onward with wisdom and not the clutter of my stuff to.

[15:17] To another person and open those windows for someone else so there Are so many things that have happened to me that, you know,

[15:26] people.

[15:27] There's nothing that would surprise me. And I think often people will see that in the energy field. I can be a bag of anxiety too.

[15:34] But there's something about, you know, I'm just, I can.

[15:39] People can bring the unspeakable and I can help them put work voice to it and then take it home again in a different way that they can use it to serve them.

[15:47] So bit by bit, as I become more and more whole and less and less grasping because I'm afraid or not connected and I see that that kind of sense of self, love and honoring of oneself despite the urge to be negative.

[16:01] Yeah. Is something that grows a vibration, that serves other people and then it becomes something that you think, oh, I can see it now, it's tangible, I want to follow it.

[16:10] Speaker A: Yeah.

[16:10] Speaker B: And if I keep abandoning myself and talking to myself like a worthless whatever,

[16:16] then I get further and further away from feeling connected and more and more lonely. And then I think things come up, you know, we turned a drink or.

[16:23] Speaker A: People or any myriad of things.

[16:26] Speaker B: Something that isn't so helpful for us just to get connected. Yeah. And really it's here that matters. And then anything after that is a bonus. Yeah. Yeah.

[16:35] Speaker A: Well, that was beautifully put, wasn't it? Absolutely, yeah. And is it incremental in your journey or sometimes do you feel yourself farther away from yourself even at this stage, and then you have to kind of see it from a different angle?

[16:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, that's a good question. I think about 5 days ago I had a really, really horrible day where I was kind of sitting there thinking like, oh my God, does anything ever change?

[16:59] You know, And I couldn't see.

[17:01] I couldn't see anything much other than my own lack, my own lack of self worth, my own criticism, other people's perceived criticism.

[17:10] But most of all, I live with a lot of physical pain all the time and I can't take painkillers.

[17:15] And I literally hurt from head to foot all the time. And walking hurts, sitting hurts,

[17:21] everything hurts. And some days it's really difficult. And it was so difficult that day. It was like I didn't get off the couch till 6 o' clock in the evening, which I haven't done for 25 years.

[17:33] And it was like, oh, this is really horrible. And it trick is for me fears what's going to happen to me in another 10 years and will I die alone like my mom?

[17:40] And.

[17:41] And then I'm watching with a witness this incredible field of, of shadows Arising.

[17:48] Yeah. And the hopelessness. And I can't get my workshop out and I've got this voice and I can't go home until I've done this stuff and I can't get it out.

[17:55] And you.

[17:56] Speaker A: It's just.

[17:56] Speaker B: We've all got our own version of it. Yeah. Building and building till in the end the clarity that we do carry when we're grounded.

[18:04] Completely unreachable,

[18:06] but enough for there to be a witness. So I thought I'm just going to sit here and really pay attention to what I'm seeing, feeling, hearing and not liking rather than shoving it away or getting up and going to see someone so I can avoid it.

[18:18] And I'm actually going to be brave enough to meet it because sometimes we just don't know.

[18:21] Speaker A: And what happens when you do meet it?

[18:23] Speaker B: Well, I did meet it and I let myself rest and I let myself feel horrible all day long.

[18:29] Then I took myself for a swim in the sea,

[18:31] which is also difficult at the moment, but I'm really grateful for being in the water.

[18:36] Took a rubber ring which is 2 pound 50 and gives me great pleasure and amuses the entire beach.

[18:41] Large lady on a 2 pound 50 rubber ring dealing with bingo wings.

[18:45] And I came back, had some supper and just chilled. The next day,

[18:51] seven amazing things happened to me.

[18:53] Absolutely went from one thing to another.

[18:56] Speaker A: What were they the next?

[18:57] Speaker B: Oh,

[18:59] one of them was possibility of working on a really exciting retreat in a country I've always wanted to go to but I haven't been to. In March,

[19:08] another one was two clients a helped set up a workshop.

[19:16] Speaker A: So just lots of things that just felt fell into place in that moment when you'd actually accepted.

[19:21] Speaker B: Oh, it was one after another and it was on such a different, you know, multi level as well. And I sat there and I thought, wow, you know,

[19:27] I loved myself yesterday even though I hated the day because it felt so painful. Yes,

[19:32] but you can love yourself in the dark. It's like lighting a candle in the dark. The dark isn't just the dark, but as soon as you light the candle, it's like where the light comes, darkness shines and disappears.

[19:43] Yeah,

[19:43] and in that space now I've got goosebumps. Yeah,

[19:48] in that space. I think that's where love lives. And we think it's not there,

[19:52] but if we dare to go there, we'll find in that little dusty corner there's a little kind of higher here.

[19:58] Take me home, Take me, take me somewhere comfortable. Give me some more space. Yes. And then that alignment comes Back in. And because the alignment's there and the frequency shifted, then all these other lovely things that were just sitting there that couldn't come in because this is the way I see it.

[20:13] There's a blockage. Yeah. Suddenly can free flow and then you're back in business again with spirit or being inspired and moving through inspiration instead of just mind *******.

[20:21] Yes.

[20:21] Speaker A: That is such a helpful share because, you know,

[20:24] when people have been interviewed or they telling their story, I think it's so important to kind of show what really goes on with us humans, you know.

[20:33] Yeah. And it's just much more of a powerful thing. So people like, yeah, okay, I can totally relate to that. And you know. Yes, definitely find our way through whatever appears.

[20:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

[20:43] Speaker A: You know, by, by not pushing it away, not accepting and sitting in the.

[20:49] Speaker B: Yeah.

[20:49] Speaker A: And as you were talking, I'm just sort of thinking that this,

[20:54] this idea of self love, which is really, I think a very.

[20:57] Firstly, it can sound, it can sound a bit American, can't it can sound.

[21:01] Speaker B: A bit high five. Yeah.

[21:03] Speaker A: But actually when you really think about it, if we don't, if we don't actually like ourselves, then who else is going to, for one. So that's these stories we tell ourselves.

[21:12] Becoming aware in the first instance that we're talking to ourselves in a negative way.

[21:17] And then the other thing that I was thinking about as you were talking was this idea that if we're not in line with society and how. What its expectations are of us for those of us who aren't normal in inverted commas, you know, who are neurodivergent, who have possibly faced a lot more external criticism.

[21:36] So we've got our own internal criticism which perhaps has been developed as a result of the never ending. I can't remember what the statistic is, but people who have adhd, for example, and I know that you have a diagnosis of ADHD and autism, but are criticized, what is it,

[21:49] 10 times? Katie Morgan? I can't remember the figure, but it's way more than that. Thousands more than that. And so those things stick with us. So we need to work even harder to try and shift.

[21:59] Shift them or lift them. What's your kind of take on that?

[22:03] And how were you, how did you feel as a kid growing up with these clearly extraordinary sort of spiritual gifts, but possibly not fitting in with the,

[22:12] you know, not being in line with the system or how was that for you?

[22:17] Speaker B: I have no idea about the neurodivergence and the autism thing until fairly recently, in a way.

[22:24] So I Think some of that just piled into my own lack of self esteem, my own lack of self worth and whatever I do, everyone else seems to be able to do it better.

[22:33] But if I was privy, which I was almost like an acupuncture,

[22:38] how can I say people would turn up? Extraordinary people like the medicine elders or Martin,

[22:45] and people of a high vibrational nature who had integrated wisdom that at some level would see me or be of help to me.

[22:56] And I think those acupuncture points for me must have kept me going without me even realizing it. Yeah. So there was always like this struggle to be here, but also a never ending resilience that kept walking.

[23:08] And that part, I think was connected to my soul and my. In a bigger space that knew this is the journey. Yeah. And the personality and the other stuff is like, oh, for sake, man.

[23:18] Yeah, he is too much.

[23:19] Speaker A: Yeah.

[23:20] Speaker B: And I had a big car crash when I was 18.

[23:23] My 18th birthday was quite a year. My. My dad died, I got raped and I lost my career at art college. And I'm going to become a filmmaker for music videos, which I still would like to do.

[23:37] And that, that year,

[23:41] I think changed a lot of things because the impact of that accident. Somebody stuck a bottle in my mouth when I was in a car, which I didn't know was there as we were driving from one place to another.

[23:52] And so I smacked the bottle away and spun the wheel to avoid hitting a bar car and shot across the road at 50 miles an hour and up a flight of stairs and ended up in the foyer of a hotel on Worthing seafront.

[24:04] Speaker A: ****** hell.

[24:05] Speaker B: 10 minutes before there had been full of people and the day before that I'd stopped for no reason I knew about into a conservative jumble sale near where my mum was living.

[24:17] Walked into the place,

[24:19] went to the back of the room, bought her a hard bowler hat, like an office bowler hat. London office, you know, London bowler hat.

[24:26] Took it. I stick it on the side. Like I don't know why I bought that. And in the rim it had Burlington. And that was the name of the hotel that I drove through.

[24:34] And that was really difficult because I did have some kind of brain disturbance from that in the Ponds area, which makes sense now when I think about memory.

[24:44] But I was very lucky as well. But it triggered off me and fibromyalgia for 20 years and.

[24:50] And so it was almost like every time I tried to take off,

[24:53] I'd be shot out sky some form or another. And of course,

[24:57] again,

[24:58] nobody really knew what to do with that. So I was just considered to be a really difficult person. Yeah.

[25:03] Speaker A: Were those labels around then, the fibromyalgia and the. The MA was me, but me is basically just.

[25:10] These are terms given when they don't really know what else to call things.

[25:16] Chronic fatigue.

[25:17] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, I mean, basically, I think it's. I think it's trauma based and I think it's. I think it's shocked to the system and the system can't equalize itself, balance itself.

[25:26] So it goes into,

[25:27] you know, it goes into.

[25:29] It's trying to protect chaos. Yeah. But because it was hard to get support for that because obviously it just looked like I'm being difficult,

[25:37] you know, that leads to a whole load of other things. It almost feels like there were two paths of this sort of like chaotic,

[25:44] very uncomfortable journey in the human realm. And there's this kind of very big soul energy that I've always been told I have, which I didn't realize at that time I carried.

[25:55] And the two are running alongside each other,

[25:58] but because they're not completely harmonized, they're disturbing each other,

[26:03] which I think would be possibly happening in lots of people.

[26:07] And my sense, just what's coming to me right now is that when you have an intention and you've got enough awareness or you're a little bit awake that you can think to yourself, my God, I've come here to harmonize these two things so they can dance together.

[26:21] Then I. Then I am more able to be who I've come to be, irrespective of what anybody else thinks. And it's outside my own grasping of personality.

[26:31] Then whatever happens after that,

[26:33] for me anyway, if it's on an altruistic level, it will flow.

[26:38] So trying to come into that space and notice that and then try and feed that against the bits of personality that are abstracting or going back into old patterns. And that has been quite a thing.

[26:49] But it does feel like the heart connection is the one thing.

[26:53] You know, I've always been surprised when I felt really, really kind of cut off or disconnected that somebody will turn up who has great wisdom and can always say, you know, your mission is love.

[27:04] And I so want to create something called Ambassadors of Unity. The Power of Community and Spirit Pathways.

[27:09] Speaker A: To Peace, which I see as a.

[27:10] Speaker B: Year'S training in ambassadorship as a peacekeeper, Peacemaker.

[27:14] To work with oneself, work with community, and then weave common threads into miracles to create help for a wider group of people with 12 strands of spirituality and creativity, but all pertaining to the finding the missing P, E, A, C, E in ourselves.

[27:31] And so I realize now this is my journey to find my own missing piece. Yeah.

[27:37] That puts that piece back in so that I'm not feeling like I'm cut off. I'm disconnected. I'm alone in this world, which sometimes I can feel hugely strongly. And I know I'm not alone in that we all feel much.

[27:49] If there's 200 people out there. Sometimes I'm just thinking like everyone else has got this, this and this. But I'm on the outside just coming in and out.

[27:56] Speaker A: Yes.

[27:56] Speaker B: And some of it's true and some of it's not true, but some of it's the story. Yeah. That we're born with. Absolutely. And.

[28:04] And so it's. It feels like a very humbling journey as I think I become more aware. But I'm also feeling very strongly, which I was surprised to feel that. That I'm in the last chapter of my life because.

[28:19] And I'm really, really thinking, how can I reach out and ask the help I need to anchor what I want to leave as a legacy?

[28:27] Because all of this neurodivergent stuff has really held me up in lots of ways.

[28:33] Speaker A: Can you talk a bit about that? How that. How you feel that's held you up?

[28:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I think some of the stuff is to do with the accident effect the accident had on my cognitive executive function,

[28:47] but it's also wrapped up in the neurodivergence. Yeah. And I wholly, wholly say that I am grateful to be neurodivergent. And I think I just absolutely take my hat off to everybody who has whatever level they have of neurodivergence, autism.

[29:02] Because we are such beautiful, amazing beings and we don't necessarily fit into the common structures, which makes our sensitivity very painful. Because there's a harshness of lack of understanding.

[29:14] Yeah. That can easily keep shutting down. What's trying to open up. Yeah. But there are so many more people opening up to it. And I think as we come together and we can speak about our own differences and our own samenesses together, that wave of accessible love is so different to a headbanging kind of mental.

[29:36] Do you know what I mean? Trying to say it. A mental version of let's be loving.

[29:41] There's a different frequency that I think people like us can create. There's like a way, a wave for a surfboard to surf on. Yeah. And the more we can connect in with each other,

[29:51] the more important that is.

[29:53] Speaker A: And dropping out of that kind of idea of the head and how society Wants us to be running ourselves, running our lives in this linear fashion in a vertical, organized way and more into that heart space and seeing what that has to offer and not worrying so much about the external judgment when we don't.

[30:10] When we don't stay in line with.

[30:12] Speaker B: What'S expected of us. And I think that takes a lot of courage because we use these old things as stability, but they're actually completely insecure.

[30:21] Speaker A: Yes.

[30:21] Speaker B: And the only insecurity is in the self care and the self love. A willingness to keep working with grounding boundaries.

[30:29] Boundaries not to keep out,

[30:31] not to be brutish, but boundaries of self love. So that when we've spent the coins available,

[30:38] we don't try and take a loan out for 25 more because someone else will be upset with us if we don't actually go, I'm really sorry, but I've spent it today and I haven't got any more to give.

[30:47] I need you to understand that I still love you. We'll talk tomorrow. But actually, right now I need to go home and have a hot chocolate. The stroke cat.

[30:53] Speaker A: Yes.

[30:54] Speaker B: And.

[30:55] And those sort of things. The more we can put those boundaries in, the more we actually protect ourselves. But we also protect other people.

[31:01] And then they usually kick up sting. You know, it's not. You can say, no, I know myself, I've been on both ends of this.

[31:07] But when you put a boundary in, if somebody's used to getting what they want and as much as they want, they go mad. And then that pressure rises and you're thinking like, oh, my God, I can't stand this.

[31:17] I think I'll just let go and whatever. You can have it.

[31:20] Speaker A: Yeah.

[31:20] Speaker B: And that actually just breeds content discontent because you then, of course, with yourself, the other person's got a mixed message. And what they got wasn't worth having.

[31:27] Speaker A: Yes.

[31:28] Speaker B: It actually doesn't serve anybody anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this was something about the connected.

[31:34] You mentioned something.

[31:36] Well, even through the neurodivergence. But when we can connect through a heart level and have a boundary so that we don't let that be exploited in the wrong way, which is so easy to do.

[31:46] It reminds me of the medicine man that adopted me, Dr. Jim Gillahan. To tank a scar White Buffalo.

[31:53] He was the fourth carrier of Sitting Bulls original pipe. He was a famous Indian back in history that you can look up.

[32:00] And he would adopt people into what he called the Red Bead family.

[32:04] And when did this happen?

[32:05] Speaker A: Can you tell us a little bit about how this happened?

[32:07] Speaker B: It was around 2000.

[32:08] Speaker A: And that was in America.

[32:10] Speaker B: Well, it was an amazing woman here that started. A flyer came through my door with a message that a shaman was coming to town. And I thought, oh, I'd like to go listen to them in the library.

[32:23] And I rang a phone number that was at the bottom of this piece of paper, and a woman answered the phone, and we got talking, and she said, well, I used my own money to bring some of these amazing, really authentic people over here to help them raise money to pay for wealth in their village or help them in some way as much as them helping us.

[32:43] And she was becoming older, and she was a very, very well, nine woman.

[32:50] It worked with David, Ike, and lots of people.

[32:56] And let me just say, how did that happen?

[32:59] Yeah. So when we were talking on the phone, I just heard something in her voice. I felt a great sadness in her voice, and I said, thank you for all that you do, and do you get appreciated?

[33:08] And she burst into tears and said, can you come around for coffee?

[33:11] So I got in the car, went around for coffee, and that began this whole journey because she was starting to be unable to move around so well. So I would take little bundles of sacred things,

[33:24] put them in special places in America, and around and about.

[33:27] It was part of a much bigger picture of sacred,

[33:34] how can I say, sacred maneuverings that were going on. It was just stumbling because I'm trying to think how to pray. See something.

[33:43] Speaker A: This is the woman who then introduced you to the.

[33:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I. She. She introduced me.

[33:48] Speaker A: She.

[33:49] Speaker B: In fact,

[33:50] the day that I'm thinking of, she rang me up and she said, can you come around and hold a drum group for me?

[33:57] And I thought, oh, my God. Holding rhythms against rhythms isn't my forte, but if I've been asked, I will do it somehow. Okay.

[34:04] Got in the car and thought,

[34:06] oh, I've got to go back and get a white owl feather. Which I had a snowy white owl feather. And I thought, why am I doing that? And you can offer a snowy white owl feather to certain traditions, and it's like the kiss of death.

[34:17] You can offer it to somebody else, and it's the opposite. I didn't remember which was which.

[34:23] Speaker A: I love that.

[34:25] Speaker B: So I'm like, I've got to go back and get you 50, 50.

[34:28] Speaker A: This could go well or could go badly.

[34:30] Speaker B: I remember taking this feather, and as I got into the house. Yeah.

[34:35] David said, oh,

[34:36] come in, come in. I've got someone for you to meet. And there's this, like, really cheeky, naughty little old lady sitting in the corner, laughing like, like with laugh that you never forget.

[34:46] Tiny woman. Tiny woman. And I'm like, oh, who's this? I thought it was like grandmother or something. She said, oh, this is Grandma Twyla from the Seneca tribe. And I'm like, in.

[34:55] In rottingd.

[34:59] And so then I remembered that four years before,

[35:02] I'd been doing some work with somebody called Brooke Medicine Eagle,

[35:05] and one of the people that was there was transcribing the book of Grandmother Twyla's parents on medicine wheels.

[35:14] And she was telling me about Grandmother Twyla. And I said to her at the time, that woman is so amazing. I just so want to meet her.

[35:21] I've forgotten that four years later,

[35:23] the universe conspires. So as I walked in, not knowing who this beautiful being was, I handed her the white feather and she grabbed it and loved it. And I'm like, phew.

[35:35] And then, then she said, go, go do the drums. And I'm like, oh.

[35:40] And somehow managed to survive the evening. And then at the end of it, she was saying, you know, we have to gathering every year. It's. It's called Wolf Song. And, and this year it's going to be on top of a mountain in North Carolina where the Wisdom Keepers come together and,

[35:53] and they go into council and ceremony for a long time and, and talk about what's happening on the flight that other people don't know about and can't see and other things.

[36:02] And then that gets filtered and kind of worked through. And then there's a gathering where other people are invited in to come and share some of the teachings that come out of that.

[36:11] And, and she just said to me, she said, you're coming back with me.

[36:15] Speaker A: And I'm like.

[36:18] Speaker B: A week's time she said,

[36:19] she said, you'll have to have a little training.

[36:22] But she said, I need you to look after some of the Medicine Elders.

[36:25] And I'm like,

[36:28] and I thought, I thought I felt great, but I also had been struggling because I was still in pain for the car accident. And you know that kind of feeling when you're like, oh, my God, hell yeah.

[36:36] I'm going, yeah, just fantastic. The other part's going like, oh, God, how am I going to do this? Right, yeah. So both were there and,

[36:45] and it turned into the most incredible,

[36:48] insane journey,

[36:49] which, while I was on the mountain,

[36:52] one elder's person looking after them dropped out.

[36:55] So I was asked to look after two.

[36:57] And then I was spying on one of them through the trees and I didn't realize of course. That he was spying on me. Spying on him. Spying on me.

[37:07] And that was Jim, who was known by the Dalai Lama as the guardian of the little people.

[37:12] And he had a great relationship with the invisible world of little folk. And the Dalai Lama asked him to become a guardian, an official guardian of little people.

[37:19] Speaker A: Who are the little people?

[37:20] Speaker B: Little people don't. You'd be surprised. They're everywhere, and they are real, and it's. It's very interesting.

[37:26] Speaker A: Are they literally like little people that we can't see when they reveal themselves?

[37:29] Speaker B: You can see them. Okay. But not always.

[37:32] Speaker A: I haven't.

[37:33] Speaker B: There's lots of stories around that I could share with you.

[37:35] Speaker A: Can you see them then?

[37:36] Speaker B: I have seen them, yeah. But I mean, I don't see them all the time. I know when somebody's there. Yeah,

[37:42] but. But Jim had a death moment, and I'm jumping across you and these stories.

[37:48] Speaker A: No, no, no, it's fine.

[37:49] Speaker B: We just. Where was I before that?

[37:51] Speaker A: He was spying on you.

[37:52] Speaker B: He was spying on him. That's right. So in dinner that day, he went over and he said to me, I need to adopt you into the red bead family. And he handed me this red trading bee that I think I mentioned earlier.

[38:01] Speaker A: You did? Yeah, but before we were recording, so.

[38:03] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So Jim would adopt people into the red bead family. I've said it before then.

[38:09] Now you've got a second chance.

[38:11] And he adopts people like Gandhi and all sorts of amazing people and ordinary folk that he felt a connection with. And his idea was basically that the. These bees would create a network so people could hold onto them and know that they were connected.

[38:25] We are all connected.

[38:27] We're all connected in every single thing we do. You know, we cough or shout at somebody, then there's a ripple effect way beyond ourselves, and we don't take responsibility for that.

[38:35] So lots of harm is done.

[38:37] We lack a mindfulness. But equally, when we start to understand, we can really see how we can be of service to the planet by holding our own hearts dear and minding our mouth and mind a little bit.

[38:47] Speaker A: Small acts of kindness.

[38:48] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And.

[38:53] Speaker A: The red bead.

[38:54] Speaker B: So he gave me the red bead and said, I want to adopt you into this family.

[39:00] Be on a vision quest with me. It's the last one I'm ever going to do in Indiana on a particular date. That was the exact date I was supposed to fly home.

[39:08] And I'm like,

[39:09] oh, God. Because part of me was like. Part of me was like, I need to go now. And he's like, there's no way you're going now.

[39:17] And so that probably is another whole podcast. But I ended up with a very extraordinary meeting with another person who flew with me to Indiana. And it was a year and a half preparation for a very strict Lakota vision quest.

[39:35] And I had nothing.

[39:37] And I had nothing but bag anxiety.

[39:42] And my bag happened to go on the wrong plane,

[39:44] which I was then told that I would be spending however long in the forest doing this vision quest with nothing. With nothing. Which was for me, you know, I got a bit of back anxiety and, you know, I needed to know where my bits were.

[39:56] Yeah,

[39:57] very crass, but hey, no. And anyway, to my absolute shock, Jim left the sacred site,

[40:04] drove to the airport, found my bags and brought them back, paid everyone, mate.

[40:09] And I was like, oh, my God, how embarrassed am I? And what I should have said was how honored I am. Thank you.

[40:16] Just like, what was I in my head in shame.

[40:19] I needed to know where 40 pairs of knickers were.

[40:21] Speaker A: More the division quest. But these things aren't by accident, are they? Because then they reveal the anxiety we have and how we cling to physical possessions and stuff.

[40:31] Speaker B: Absolutely.

[40:31] Speaker A: To try and make us feel safe.

[40:33] Speaker B: Totally. It was perfect. And it was so loving of him because who he was, it was like, wow, thank you so much.

[40:39] And then I understood then when he's around, ladybirds are around, that's like red bead reminder for me. Which happens a lot in significant situations.

[40:49] And so anyway, this vision quest took place and.

[40:55] And then I spent the next, probably about five years going backwards and forward, sitting in council with the elders.

[41:00] And what did you learn from them?

[41:02] Speaker A: Gen X.

[41:04] Speaker B: My memory is about as big as a goldfish at the moment, so probably I often wake up in the morning and think, I don't think I learned anything about anything in all the.

[41:11] All the time I've been on Earth.

[41:12] Speaker A: That's what happens to me. I totally can resonate with that.

[41:16] Speaker B: And the only. It really bothers me because it's only in conversation that things come up. And I know that somehow or other there's. There's some learning happened because there's some wisdom coming out.

[41:26] It's not connected to my personality or my ego.

[41:29] And it's. It's like, that's the gift, but it doesn't happen. I can't go and find the information I need when I want it, which is quite disturbing to me because it's like, there's nothing there.

[41:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Because you're literally downloading it in real Time. So it's not kind of held in storage.

[41:46] Speaker B: No. And it's. I don't have any way of accessing it when I want.

[41:49] Speaker A: Yeah.

[41:50] Speaker B: And it's been like that for quite a while. And it's. It's tricky and I think the neurodivergence doesn't help.

[41:56] But the Elder said one day say thank you, not **** you, because actually it puts you in your heart.

[42:02] So what I learned from that is it puts you in your heart, providing you're not trying to make what you think is what should happen happen.

[42:11] So as soon as you put the resistance in instead of surrender,

[42:14] you're in trouble again because your anxiety is going. You're trying to make something happen. You can't get through the wall feels like a failure, the frequency goes down and you end up sitting in the **** again.

[42:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And actually the lack of thoughts contaminating the system because it's literally free flowing is an absolute gift,

[42:31] if you can see it like that, you know, because it is a pure gift. Most of humanity are trying to are absolutely by their, their own minds and their own kind of thought processes.

[42:41] So ultimately.

[42:43] But I totally understand what you mean because my lack of memory.

[42:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's all programming, isn't it as well?

[42:48] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

[42:49] Speaker B: You know, I would say I give myself a hard time and can very easily fall into that place of I'm not good enough, I'm not connected, everyone else has, I haven't, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[43:02] And it's not actually true,

[43:04] but it feels like that because,

[43:08] you know, I'm sure there are many people who might hear this that can resonate with that. Yeah. You know, we are such bright, beautiful souls. Even the fact that we're alive and breathing and have a degree of kindness is a ******* achievement.

[43:19] Never mind the rest. But if you pitch it against all the frameworks of this should be,

[43:23] then we probably all fall down badly. Some of us more than others. And how do we support each other? Holding that light, that flame burning to inspire that light to shine.

[43:33] To know that if we let go and let God,

[43:37] you can put whatever you like in that, in that word,

[43:40] dog, I say,

[43:41] and you know that somehow or other by letting go, it comes to you in the right way. And there were two really strong lessons that showed me that. One is channeling of spirit songs.

[43:55] So my pop star desire has only started to materialize in my later years. Why? Because they wouldn't let me have it.

[44:04] While I wanted it as an ego thing, it had to be a medicine thing. Yeah. So then these songs started to come through me when I was with the Elders and they.

[44:12] I remember Jim saying, you must make an album. And I've been told off when I've been on stage in certain places for misappropriation.

[44:20] And I said, I'm really sorry, that's maybe what you think and you feel, but this came out with these people and they authenticated it. So I know I'm not misappropriating anyone.

[44:31] I'm just doing my version of whatever it is that decides to come through me for the benefit of all.

[44:37] And I'm not somebody that, you know, says it's a this and it will do that. It's like,

[44:41] I know it's a positive energy and it will have an effect on you and you can work with it with me or with yourself. Yeah. And something good will come if you choose that.

[44:49] Speaker A: It sounds like it's an energetic offering that's coming through you.

[44:52] Speaker B: And therefore. And it's been, it's been unbelievably extraordinary in, in so many places. And I, I was very excited when I went to the 13 grandmothers in Stockholm to do some stuff,

[45:07] probably about seven years ago now, must be quite a long time ago,

[45:10] and I was asked by Amari if I would sing something. And I thought we were all going into like a little open mic night thing in the back one evening.

[45:19] And she opened the door, she goes, why are we laughing? And I'm like, why are you laughing? She goes, oh, you'll sing Open the door.

[45:26] Open the door. And they want some lovely spirits. Opened the door. And I stepped onto a stage with 500 people.

[45:33] Oh,

[45:34] and 13 grandmothers all lined up along the front.

[45:37] And I, and I, I'm looking at them going like,

[45:41] hello,

[45:42] Hello.

[45:44] And I remember standing there thinking, I, I can't run. That's really, really not a good idea.

[45:48] I really. And so I just looked at them all and I went, wow,

[45:53] Wow.

[45:54] I said, I'm going to say this for five minutes until I've got over myself. So wow.

[45:59] And they were roaring with laughter. And then I, I, I have to sing two spirit songs and, and a chant that had come through me and just trust. And they were just like, they were so amazing.

[46:09] It was just like they were thanking me and loving it and everything else. And I, I said, I know it's not really about me at all,

[46:15] but I'm so grateful that you've received whatever it is that's decided to fly through me to you. It wasn't a complete disaster, which my Inner Child, we thought it might be.

[46:24] Speaker A: Where can we hear these spirit songs? You mentioned that they're on Spotify.

[46:28] Speaker B: How. That's not. That's the one on Spotify is more like a conventional okay song. But the thank you for my life, Great Spirit came out when I wrote a chapter in a book which I named Phoenix Rising, Time to fly in the limitless Sky.

[46:42] And the chapter's called A Pearl from the Wreckage, which I think we all are.

[46:46] And the song came out at the same time it's on Spotify.

[46:50] And again,

[46:51] I'm searching if anybody out there is a wonderful,

[46:54] eccentric,

[46:55] efficient PA who would love to work with a very interesting person who can help you grow at rapid pace, please, for God's sake, come and see me. And if you can put stuff on Spotify, easily.

[47:06] I love you forever.

[47:08] Speaker A: We all need one of those. We all do need that. And that's another.

[47:11] Speaker B: There's a job for three. Three people. So we can make it worth your while. Yeah, but what did you say to me just then?

[47:19] Speaker A: No idea. Pearl, we've been talking about something to do with spirits.

[47:23] Speaker B: Just before Spotted. Oh, there's Pearl. Health. Yeah. The, the. The.

[47:26] Thank you for my life, Great Spirit. That was.

[47:29] That has a chorus that is a spirit song. And the spirit songs come and they go and they have a purpose of healing, they have a purpose of ceremony, they have a purpose of opening doors, clearing spaces,

[47:40] that sort of thing.

[47:41] Speaker A: Do they come and have a purpose in that moment and then you. And then maybe you leave them behind or do they keep coming back?

[47:46] Speaker B: No, they usually. I mean, I sing them and then. Then never sung again. Wow. And. And I've never heard them before.

[47:54] Speaker A: Amazing.

[47:55] Speaker B: But there are some that are woven now into worded charts that come quickly because they have both sides of it. The brain has a different effect if it's listening to words as well as listen to something it doesn't understand.

[48:06] You can pass.

[48:07] But. But if I'm doing it as a healing on a one to one healing, it'll be what opens the session, which will probably evoke imagery. And then I'll take people on a deep journey within through the doorways of that imagery to repair things, change things, transform things, see things,

[48:23] find things.

[48:24] If it's that kind of a journey.

[48:27] But the chorus with. For the song, thank you for my life, it wouldn't go away. And then one day I sat up in bed and I thought, oh my God, it wants to be a chorus.

[48:35] I need to listen to it really carefully and see if I can phonetically write it down.

[48:39] Took hours.

[48:41] But I thought, you know,

[48:44] this is very unusual anyway, that chorus. If you close your eyes and you listen to the song whether you like it or not, and you just hold something in your heart that you want energized.

[48:52] People who are sensitive can feel it in that chorus. There's, there's, there's an encoding.

[48:57] And that was one of the teachings that I think I was trying to say earlier on,

[49:03] to let go and be sung through and not get caught up in the personality. Which of course in the beginning I did because it's like, oh my God, I sound like a pygmy on helium.

[49:11] Speaker A: Whatever.

[49:13] Speaker B: What's everyone else going to think? You know, Because I mean, sometimes it's like it sounds like tribal Italian,

[49:20] Mexican in a hot kitchen.

[49:23] You know, it's very different.

[49:25] And.

[49:26] And gradually having to let go of all of that. So it just had a place to come through. Yeah. And be with. And then for me, I won't direct it to anybody.

[49:33] I will say to the person,

[49:35] I'm not here to back up your pearls of wisdom, but you gather them and make sense of them that is yours. Because that energy is often there to just boost something or align something and then you'll connect yourself better.

[49:48] And.

[49:49] And sometimes it's like the effect of that is something that becomes a session to work through and all sorts of other things come out of a multi dimensional, I suppose, mentorship that I'll do with people depending on what they want.

[50:03] But. Yeah.

[50:04] Speaker A: Do you think that people who are neurodivert. What's your sort of take on the idea that people who are neurodivergent may be more easy. Easy to access the sort of spirit world.

[50:17] Do you think there is a thing that. And do you work with lots of people who are neurodivergent?

[50:20] Speaker B: Yeah,

[50:21] I have quite a lot and I feel.

[50:24] I just think there's a greater sensitivity and one of the key things,

[50:29] which is only my feeling because it may not be everybody else's,

[50:33] is that being aware that one's neurodivergent and one is probably more sensible, sensitive and has certain things that you can and can't do and certain volumes of things that work and other things that don't that might seem like petty,

[50:46] nickety things to another person that are crucial to your being able to be more. You. Yeah. Need really hearing. And I think that brings back right from the very first question that you mentioned earlier.

[50:58] It. It's really important to focus on self love,

[51:01] self awareness and raising consciousness and Energy but being grounded and having boundaries that actually pertain to your well being irrespective of what anybody else is saying or doing with you or energetically.

[51:15] Because at the end of the day it feels like we seek to try and change people to make ourselves more comfortable. And you have a never win because ultimately we've got to find out why are we uncomfortable and address that.

[51:26] And then it may be that they're just doing something but we can go, oh, it's okay. I'm just, you know, I'm just doing my thing. It doesn't matter.

[51:33] Yeah. If you can stay connected enough to be able to meet that person in whatever way you can and both meet each other even if it means both of you got to shift a little bit to find a thread that you can meet on even if you disagree and go back to a place of self forgiveness and then that forgiveness for somebody else is better.

[51:52] And nine times out of 10 we're all just treading on each other's feet because we don't know how not to. Not because we're being malicious. Yeah, sometimes there is maliciousness or sometimes it's,

[52:04] you know, there's all sorts of degrees of disturbance and some of them are nasty and some of them are really difficult. But we've all got a part to play in it.

[52:13] And I think I went to a workshop once some years ago and somebody was. It was a workshop about venting your anger.

[52:20] And the person on the stage was venting their anger about their partner,

[52:24] but their partner. It was like the whole thing was, was an assault on this man.

[52:30] Everybody else got onto the bandwagon and started to bring all of their angers about their men.

[52:35] And I've never seen anything like it. I sat there and I felt so sad and furious myself. Now I'm getting really angry and I stood up and I thought this is going to either go very very wrong and I should go and creep out.

[52:47] But I said I just find it really disturbing that it doesn't matter what we're complaining about.

[52:53] There is something to do with us in everything and that means we have some power to do something different with it. Even if everything is completely unfair in our perception and.

[53:03] Or maybe.

[53:04] But to just constantly try and inspire people to believe that somebody else is 100 the problem. Yes. Means that there is only a victim persecutor until someone shifts out of that rescues and then gets bolt on the head.

[53:19] Better that you go home and have a giggle about whatever it is that needs fixing and just, just own that peace. That we have because we're allowing whatever it is that we don't want to happen.

[53:28] To happen. Yeah. Otherwise it wouldn't be happening. Yeah. Which means we can learn to say no. Or we can learn to say, I didn't say no, and I wish I did, but I don't need to hurt myself.

[53:36] I can love myself.

[53:37] Speaker A: It's about taking responsibility.

[53:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like, you know, I'm full of holes. I've got, you know, plenty of things. Thousand million lifetimes. I probably won't be in any. Any shade near perfect.

[53:48] But I. I'm really grateful for a sense of humor. I'm grateful for the fact that I can talk about it now, whereas in the past I couldn't. I just felt such shame, I couldn't even breathe.

[53:57] And I struggle with shame.

[53:59] Not that it's due or valid, but, you know, that's one of my stories. Yeah. And the kind of things that have happened and it's just like, how can we bring everyone to the table and let everyone have a voice,

[54:11] limit the time that voice can have it, say, but welcome everything, even if it's for two minutes. Welcome the entire crew of bastards and share some chocolate. Yeah. And then put a boundary and say, okay, it's enough now.

[54:24] Now we're going to change something. Yeah. But the more we try and push it out and pretend it's something else, someone else, then we're just inviting a brick through the window at midnight.

[54:33] Yeah. Maybe. Yes.

[54:34] Speaker A: Enter island after that. What a brilliant, brilliant,

[54:40] brilliant way. We're going to be joining you around that table and sharing the chocolate. That's for sure. Definitely.

[54:47] It sounds to me. I mean, there's been. You mentioned a car accident when you were 18, and then there was another big accident, wasn't there, later on?

[54:54] I'd like to know about how those affected you emotionally, spiritually, and in every other way. And also this idea that.

[55:01] I wonder what you make of the idea that we are only given what we can take. And therefore sometimes if we're going through these extreme periods of. All of us around this table have had things that happened to us in our lives that have been quite shocking and traumatic.

[55:14] And people don't like this idea because they think it means that, you know, well, you. You brought it upon yourself. And that's not what I'm saying. But this idea that we are given what we can manage and sometimes it can feel like a very, very heavy burden to carry.

[55:27] With the things that happened in your life, have you. What's been revealed to you through those traumas and do you subscribe to that idea that we will only be given in this lifetime what we can handle?

[55:38] Speaker B: So that's three questions and I start from the first. Can you, can you pull one at a time?

[55:42] Speaker A: I will. Okay, so firstly, what do you make of this? How. Tell me about your. The traumas that have happened to you in your life and how they affected you emotionally and spiritually and physically and your growth.

[55:56] So that's an idea between trauma and growth, I suppose, is really what's underneath that question.

[56:00] Speaker B: So I think that the trauma inspires the push to grow out of it, learn from it and become what you came here to become and create a big gap can turn into resilience and courage.

[56:14] But for me, if I think about all of the things that have occurred, I think they've on one level,

[56:21] in my perception stopped me doing what I wanted to do in some respects,

[56:27] set off huge self doubt because of sitting in pain and not being able to do anything for long periods of time.

[56:34] Speaker A: And this was after the accident?

[56:35] Speaker B: Yeah, and I mean, you know, I hide it quite well. I mean, I don't think many people I'm own,

[56:40] I moan, you know, I'll say I'm really hurting, whatever, but I don't think I ever speak very fully about it. And I don't think many people know.

[56:49] And I think there must be many, many people out there with a stoic face on things that people have no idea just what a struggle it is. Because your life looks like it's very blessed in some places.

[56:59] And yet there are these invisible spaces within ourselves, whether it's psychological, mental health,

[57:06] spiritual, physical, whatever, that all have a big impact on our own sense of self or lack of sense of self.

[57:13] And so I think I can feel I could sense in an overall way of being crushed, stopped in my tracks constantly, more stuff coming on top of the part of me that was trying to become a something and at the same time all of that together has made me an incredibly resilient person.

[57:34] Speaker A: And do you think that was the reason these things were visited upon you.

[57:38] Speaker B: As it were, in some ways. I mean, I can have days where I just feel like a complete victim and I'm really cross of everything.

[57:44] And that's valid at the time. I do feel like some of the lesson of the path that somehow or other I've had something to do with choosing has been about that.

[57:52] And there are really vulnerable parts of me that are over silly small things that you wouldn't imagine. And then there are other Parts that will stand up in front of the tiger and, and save anybody.

[58:03] But, you know, if I, if I get,

[58:05] if I get left in a forest at night, I can't find my way out. And I mean, that sounds really weird, being on a shamanic path and being great friends with nature,

[58:15] but because of various things that have happened, it's like I have no sense of direction. I will just end up in the middle of it. No one will find me for 20 years.

[58:23] But the other side of it is that if I let go and trust, which has happened a couple of times, I have found my way out of the most extraordinary things.

[58:29] I'm incredibly creative at finding solutions and I'm also able to unlock locked doors metaphorically on lots of different levels.

[58:37] But it really helped me to have someone who I know believes in me to be around, which I think a neurodivergent thing as well, because if you have someone there, even if they're not doing anything,

[58:47] somehow you can activate a different part of yourself and be very much more abundant than you can sometimes when you're just overwhelmed with thoughts and on your own.

[58:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah.

[58:59] Speaker B: And it's like, you know, just the, the company is enough.

[59:03] And so I think all of these things are things that if you have a mind to and you can step into that frame, are lessons of learning.

[59:16] And each time it's forgive yourself, love yourself,

[59:21] how amazing are you? And also aware of there's a little part here that's going like, enough, you're ******* enough. This is too much.

[59:29] Speaker A: And it's finding, finding those tools and those ways to be able to do that though, isn't it? And is that how you help people to see in various ways how do you work with somebody?

[59:40] Speaker B: I'm very, very multitude of different ways. So I don't use a prescription for anything because everyone's different.

[59:49] So it might be that for somebody it's important to sit on the beach and do something and create something. It might be that it's.

[59:55] You know, when I worked as a traditional counselor, as a therapist then it was always in a room.

[01:00:01] But I work with anything creative, anything spiritual. But I guess the essence of it is really helping that person see that they know what they want and how to connect with it and connect,

[01:00:13] deepen and anchor their spiritual connection and creative connection so they can actually find their answers.

[01:00:19] And I know I was working in various different places years ago and it would be like advertised as a tarot reader or this or that. And I'm none of those things.

[01:00:30] And people would come in and go, oh, you're a fake, you're a fake. Can you tell me when I'm going to die? Can you tell me whether my girlfriend's going to leave me on Friday?

[01:00:37] And I'd sit there and I'd go, no.

[01:00:40] I said I could say something and I might be right and I might not be right because I'm human. And all the time I'm in a human body, I'm like a furred up kettle.

[01:00:47] There are places where it runs free if I'm clean, but there are also places that mean I don't have the last word. You do.

[01:00:53] And I'm not going to give it to you. And I'm not going to back up your pearls of wisdom. I'm going to trigger you like ****.

[01:00:58] Yeah. To see what it is that's blocking you. Yeah. If you're willing to be triggered and pushed a little bit with love,

[01:01:04] that's what I prefer to do. Not ***** foot round for 200 years being nice,

[01:01:09] actually. So I've had people swear at me before and say like, you know,

[01:01:14] all sorts of things. And I say, look, do you want to shift this or don't you? Then I'm going to push you. Do you want to. Do you want to meet me or don't you?

[01:01:20] Because you can leave now. Yeah. Yeah. And those have been the most profound things of all. As long as I have to be really careful that I'm grounded, really careful that I'm not triggered in any kind of parachute or, or bullish or my agenda, because that's wrong.

[01:01:34] But, but people will. Then they almost just can't bear to step over that line because of what it means. But when they do, it's like, oh, my God, I'm back.

[01:01:43] Yeah. And. And there's so many different ways of doing that. Whether it's through talk, through song, through poetry, creativity, writing, drawing,

[01:01:51] working with animals, being in silence, working with horses,

[01:01:54] praying,

[01:01:56] being in nature,

[01:01:57] being with fire, being with the elements.

[01:02:00] And it's really about finding that doorway that says,

[01:02:05] do you want to talk to me outside? Do you want to. Can we do it in the forge or shall we come into the kitchen or the lounge, or should we make a fire outside or shall I turn up for the weekend?

[01:02:14] Speaker A: Yeah.

[01:02:15] Speaker B: And how's it going to work? How can we do this in a way that steps into a space mostly, you know, creating that safe sense of space first as well,

[01:02:24] which is really important.

[01:02:25] Speaker A: That's so important, isn't it?

[01:02:26] Speaker B: And just Being mindful of always, you know, not running my agenda, being aware of it. We can't hide it, I don't think. You know, you say don't be judgmental and it's really silly because we are judgmental.

[01:02:38] Yeah. And I.

[01:02:40] Years ago, I used to teach counseling skills and self awareness training and it was like it would be teach three core conditions or type of thing and like judgmental. I'd say, I'd go and sit down and I'd say, okay, hands up who's made a judgment about me already?

[01:02:55] And everyone would go put their heads down. So I take it that's all of you. Isn't it funny that we don't speak.

[01:03:01] Speaker A: The truth ever about these very fundamental things that run through all of humanity?

[01:03:07] Speaker B: And I say put your hand up. Honestly, if you had one judging thought about you, because I've judged all of you already and I've only been in here for five minutes.

[01:03:13] So let's get that out the way. Yeah. And then let's see how we can suspend that to see deeper in a good way. And people just must be just taking like a sigh of relief and just.

[01:03:24] It's like that awesome. It's like, oh, yeah, I can just be real. And I think, I think from what I get feedback for that there's a sense of like, you can just turn up and be you and it's like, fine.

[01:03:36] Yeah. Yes. And sometimes that's really bizarre,

[01:03:39] you know, and that's for me to hold. Yeah.

[01:03:41] Speaker A: And that there's this sense as well. I think sometimes with, with spiritual work where people feel like they have to show up wearing a white robe or be spiritual, you know, or even if you're a psychotherapist, you've got to have the room.

[01:03:53] It's like these, these things, these things of dressing stuff up that as humans in the, in this constructed society,

[01:04:01] rather than just doing what you said, which is it could be anything. And people are afraid of not having that structure. In a way, people crave it, don't they? Because we're looking for some sort of sense of safety or some familiarity, but actually that's all an illusion.

[01:04:15] And that's what I think we were talking about before we started recording that. These ideas of safety that we cling to, they're all a ****** illusion, aren't they?

[01:04:21] Speaker B: They are. So much so. You know, I used to take a bag,

[01:04:25] a bag of stuff with me because I thought it's really nice. And I think this is true to a degree. It's nice to make a Room nice. Yes. But, but every time I went somewhere important, people would steal my, my, my crystals or my stuff and that really upset me.

[01:04:38] Yeah, I come home and find something really important to me vanished. And I, and it was beyond me just being, you know, forgetting where I put it.

[01:04:46] And then I thought, well, all of these accoutrements which I felt I needed even reflected in songs because I think, like I need a whole band behind me which are really.

[01:04:56] Because I wanted them to drown me out and sound so ******* good. Everyone thought it was marvelous.

[01:05:00] People would say,

[01:05:02] just sing it with the, with a drum. Can you just. I'm like, oh no,

[01:05:05] straight back. And. And it's like. Because there's the truth there, which is why I sing on the drum skin now.

[01:05:10] And I can do it with a headphone and a radio head mic. And that's also a different experience. But it's, it's actually very powerful in the right place.

[01:05:19] But it's.

[01:05:20] And when we were doing stuff,

[01:05:22] I did a lot of Lakota pipe training, which medicine man said to me, we give you the pipe, we trust you use it with, with yourself. And then it got changed to a bike for the people.

[01:05:34] And I, in those early days doubted myself so much I was scared of it in the corner because somebody told me something that got under my skin and I thought, I really can't do this properly and I have so many details to it and I really can't get my head around it,

[01:05:47] so I'll just pretend I haven't got it. Which was dreadful.

[01:05:50] Went and did a three year training that nearly killed me and forgot everything I'd done within a week of doing it. So it was all a complete waste of time.

[01:05:56] And. And I could see Jim in my mind's eye going up. I told you, when are you going to give up suffering? You keep looking for what you've already found.

[01:06:03] You've already got it and you're going round and round around looking for it all because you think it looks like that, but you've already ******* got it.

[01:06:10] Speaker A: That's such a, such a brilliant explanation of most of what we all are doing.

[01:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So then this man said to me, he said, actually,

[01:06:18] you don't need to do these things. You don't need these accoutrements. Just you turn up yourself and nothing else. It's enough. Or a drum. And I'm like,

[01:06:28] really?

[01:06:30] But it's true. And it's like, so now,

[01:06:33] having not been able to stand on the stage, speak to people or do anything like that for at least 20 years earlier. I mean, I was just. I passed out with fear because I doubted my anything to say.

[01:06:44] And now I've got things to say, but it's hampered by my memory.

[01:06:48] And like in this recording, there'll be places where I'm talking about something, I'll jump somewhere else. And maybe we haven't finished that conversation.

[01:06:55] Speaker A: Oh, but that's neurodivergent brain speak.

[01:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like now I say to people, well,

[01:07:02] that's how it is. And it might be that you need to shift from there to there because of a reason that I don't know. But actually I'm tuned into you and it looks like to five people, I'm being careless and sloppy.

[01:07:11] To seven people, it's like fab. I got it.

[01:07:13] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.

[01:07:14] Speaker B: And all I can be is me and you lot can decide how you want to bag it up.

[01:07:18] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. It's that old thing, that AI expression. What other people think of you as none of your business.

[01:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:07:23] Speaker A: Which is brilliant, I think. And also this idea that all of the people since. Since I was diagnosed. And I'm guessing it's the same. Well, you were the one stiffly said to me, I think you, you know, I think you might have adhd.

[01:07:35] You realize how many of us band together, we can have these conversations that are not linear.

[01:07:40] And a conversation can start and then you can seamlessly go back to something that started three hours ago without a break. So anybody who's listening to this, who is neurodivergent, I don't think will find it odd because that's how we communicate.

[01:07:54] And maybe, maybe for you, it's hard to unpick if you've had the accidents and things that maybe you feel have affected your memory.

[01:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Just going back to finishing answering that. Is that okay?

[01:08:04] Speaker A: Yes, please do.

[01:08:05] Speaker B: The second accident, which was 2009,

[01:08:08] that was the big one, and that was that again, it's one story that would be good to tell in its own right. But I knew a month before it was going to happen, and I even ordered a video camera because I knew something was going to change me forever.

[01:08:22] Little did I know. And the video camera didn't turn up in time.

[01:08:25] But anyway,

[01:08:27] how did that fit in.

[01:08:28] Speaker A: Your body, that knowing or how did you know what does that.

[01:08:31] Speaker B: I was just compelled. I just found myself looking for one all the time, like it was an urgency.

[01:08:36] Speaker A: Because you thought, I need to record whatever it is that's going to happen because it needs to be documented.

[01:08:42] Speaker B: And I mean, it's very hard to start the story and not finish it, but it would take too long.

[01:08:48] But so many multi dimensional signs, symbols,

[01:08:52] teachings through five events to the point of this accident. But the actual accident ended up with me going back to fulfill a second part of the journey that suddenly something changed.

[01:09:05] And every sign said, don't do it, don't go. Everything, every, every arrangement fell down. Everything.

[01:09:10] And I was so hell bent on finishing what I'd started, I didn't listen. I think that's what happened. And so I pushed to keep going.

[01:09:20] And that, that was like the universe saying,

[01:09:22] okay, it doesn't matter what you want, it's done,

[01:09:26] let go of it. And I. And I didn't.

[01:09:29] And so that day I left my home. And you'll see in the chapter in the book which speaks about it quite a lot,

[01:09:38] I had two medicine men there two days before.

[01:09:42] The last question that I answered in the circle that we had at my house didn't record, which has never happened in 40 years.

[01:09:51] And it was about something to do with sound and song. And I wish to God I could remember what it was. Then I got a terrible pain and I was doubled up in the loo until the whole thing was over and everyone had gone home.

[01:10:02] The next day I felt incredibly ill and didn't know what it was. They were leaving and they said, be really be gentle with yourself.

[01:10:11] And I went straight up to London to see a healer who'd come over from Australia.

[01:10:17] By coincidence,

[01:10:19] she did a very weird healing on me, which I've never experienced the likes of. And I'm not sure if I came back fully from it.

[01:10:25] I've got a feeling something happened.

[01:10:30] So the next day I got in the car and I was leaving my house and as I passed my friend on the in the hall, my house, I said, oh, I don't feel very well.

[01:10:38] I think I'm gonna have an accident. And I didn't even know I'd said it. Wow. And she said, but why don't you go back to bed? And we were a little bit narky and it was like, no, I want to go and do what I want to do.

[01:10:49] I'm gonna go anyway.

[01:10:51] So I got to Chichester and there was pain in my hip really bad. And I'm like, oh. And I kind of thought, should I turn around?

[01:10:58] Then she said, she rang me and she said, turn around, come home.

[01:11:01] I said, no, I've got to get there. I need to get. I need to get to Glastonbury by 5 o'. Clock. I'm Going to keep going and.

[01:11:09] And then I got lost, completely lost. Sat and I went nuts. And eventually I was getting quite tired, couldn't see Glastonbury anywhere and stopped to get a cup of coffee.

[01:11:20] Place was shut,

[01:11:22] Turned down this road which was gonna be the road that changed my life forever.

[01:11:26] And my phone,

[01:11:28] I don't know exactly what time it was, but the phone lit up and I wasn't looking at it, but the phone lit up on the chair and it was the place I was gonna stay.

[01:11:36] The woman had had some sort of psychotic episode and she'd been sending all these weird messages that caught my eye.

[01:11:43] Well, I remember I didn't pick the phone up, but it may have been a distraction.

[01:11:47] And then about a minute, two later there was this terrible bang.

[01:11:51] And I didn't know what had happened. I thought, God, my tires have burst.

[01:11:55] And then this.

[01:11:57] I could see trees flying past 100 miles an hour. Wow. And I thought, oh God,

[01:12:03] I haven't done anything. I couldn't work out where I was and I don't know.

[01:12:06] The elder said, I've blacked out, left and went to the other side and came back to me. It was almost like I was awake the whole time. But there was one blank spot.

[01:12:14] And basically I went through a piece in this hedge. It was a 60 foot drop.

[01:12:22] There was no other cars on the road. There was no reason for my car to turn right in any shape or form. But it went from here to there,

[01:12:32] went down this 60 foot drop,

[01:12:39] one foot away. It was 120 foot drop.

[01:12:42] And then I bounced 100 meters down an unplowed field with a shattered spine.

[01:12:47] Like the. Basically I felt my spine shutter inside of me and bounced all the way down to the bottom and then ended up inside hidden in a bramble hedge.

[01:12:55] Speaker A: So you came out of the car, you went through the car window or.

[01:12:57] Speaker B: No, no, I was still sitting in the car, right. And a year before I'd been asked to change my car and get a Volvo. And I was really happy with my 4,000 pound Chrysler Bugsy Malone car at the time.

[01:13:11] I'm like, whoa, yeah, it's really comfortable. I don't want to get rid of it. He's like get a Volvo. Over and over and over. Went to the garage, gone to Volvo.

[01:13:18] And he said, do you want to take out insurance on it in case you total it? And I said no, that's not gonna happen.

[01:13:24] Nine months. Nine months,

[01:13:26] bang. The whole thing. So I was at. All my sacred stuff was in the car because I was on My way to the shamanic conference to partake in a ceremony where you become.

[01:13:40] You have a foot in the spirit world, in the normal world. And it's an old Norse practice and people come to ask questions.

[01:13:51] And so I never made it there, but all my stuff was in the car, everything.

[01:13:54] And this woman came from nowhere and pulled everything out. My car saved everything.

[01:13:59] But I had a stick that was given to me by a medicine woman in Wisconsin, which was a snake. And that stick was snapped in exactly the same place as my spine had broke, broken.

[01:14:09] And this woman mended it. So you couldn't even see where it was mended.

[01:14:15] All sorts of things. But anyway, so. So I was. Then they couldn't get me out, so they had to bill 300 meters of ramps,

[01:14:24] hydraulic ramps, which they'd only been taught two days before to do.

[01:14:28] The helicopter couldn't land, so then I had to be backboarded, which was very dangerous because my. Two of my vertebrae turned to dust and my spinal cord was like in the.

[01:14:38] Just swinging about.

[01:14:40] And so then they got me to the top. Then I got put in a helicopter.

[01:14:44] Then I got taken to Bath Hospital and had horrific experience there.

[01:14:49] That's another story.

[01:14:51] Decided I had to get out. And I was being told to get out because if something happened to two people, it was definitely avoidable. But they didn't listen to these two people.

[01:14:58] And it was awful. And I'm lying there watching it happening and saying to somebody, please be kind to that woman.

[01:15:05] And it freaked me out. So I'm lying there, apparently about to have open back surgery and I wake up in anesthetics. I've woken up in three operations and pain relief doesn't work.

[01:15:15] And that I tell you to have no pain relief and feel somebody operating on you and not being able to tell them, it's just most terrible thing.

[01:15:23] So, wow, that is probably a past life experience as well. But, you know, I've had that happen to me twice actually.

[01:15:30] And after this spinal surgery, I had little pain relief for about six hours. And I just wanted someone to shoot me.

[01:15:36] Speaker A: Do you disconnect from your body when that happened?

[01:15:38] Speaker B: I don't think I did. I think I may have done and come back again.

[01:15:42] I don't know. The elder said that I definitely went to the other side and came back with a different frequency.

[01:15:48] I said, higher frequency. Yeah. They said they could see it in the songs and these shamanic drawings that I do that they say or said they were encoded.

[01:15:56] Speaker A: And is that. Is that somehow the reason that you see for that accident that you were.

[01:16:01] Speaker B: No, no. Well, partly. I think. I think the major thing was that I had to love myself enough to bring myself home.

[01:16:09] Speaker A: Right.

[01:16:09] Speaker B: Because I wanted to leave because they said I'd probably be paralyzed and brain damaged.

[01:16:14] And I thought, I can't live with that. I just. I just can't. Not with the way I am slightly joking,

[01:16:22] but.

[01:16:23] And I didn't realize this till afterwards. And then they said, well, you know, as soon as they said that kind of.

[01:16:30] I really not sure I want to come back.

[01:16:34] It was like, you haven't got any choice.

[01:16:36] Speaker A: You remember this? A near death experience. There was a commune at some point with.

[01:16:41] Speaker B: No, this was. This was afterwards when I was with the Elders talking about. Right. I was upset that I hadn't had an experience of, you know, the 13 elders and having a chat and coming home with lots of nice gifts and understanding it all very well.

[01:16:53] And I'm like, other people got it.

[01:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I know.

[01:16:56] Speaker B: I don't want to go back and have another go. Thanks either.

[01:16:59] But it was kind of like I. I was. It would have helped my own bits of me that I find is a struggle to trust things sometimes.

[01:17:07] Speaker A: Yes.

[01:17:08] Speaker B: And. And they said, but you did. And I said, well, I didn't. And they said, but you did.

[01:17:12] Speaker A: And I said, well, I didn't get.

[01:17:13] Speaker B: What I wanted, that's for sure.

[01:17:15] Yeah. I got a load of pain and confusion and. And no meeting. And they said, no, you actually went to the other side. And what I didn't understand, which I only found out recently, was you can find situations of left soul parts in the other world and create things or somehow be in situations that take you to the edge of death,

[01:17:37] because that's the closest you can get to retrieve them,

[01:17:40] bring them back.

[01:17:41] Wow. For wholeness in this life before you leave. If that makes any sense.

[01:17:45] Speaker A: Yeah.

[01:17:47] Speaker B: Which is what I saw when I was explaining about the miracle of my friend. Surrendering to love, to die and leave in a good way in or for circumstances. And what's possible is so incredible even when our brain can't understand it.

[01:18:00] But to find that space of. And I have to say this to myself as well, because I'm always blathering on about, well, if only I could have done this, or if only I was this.

[01:18:09] Actually, we're probably all exactly where we're meant to be. Not giving each other and ourselves the credit and love that we deserve because we're doing amazing.

[01:18:16] If you look outside the parameters of the way the mind thinks it should be,

[01:18:21] it's like we wouldn't be half as exhausted trying to work out how to work social media or whether we're good enough to have a PA or whether we can see three clients and have one bit of publicity next week instead of last week.

[01:18:33] And yes, I should have been a rock star. And all of it. And it's like.

[01:18:39] And it's kind of like the. I think the only thing that matters. I'm beginning to think the only thing that matters is self care, self love,

[01:18:46] forgiveness.

[01:18:48] Being able to be still here. Spirit in whatever form that is for you. There's no prescription because we're all different.

[01:18:56] To be able to ground yourself with some sense of boundaries,

[01:19:01] make that effort to bring all of these otherworldly things, whatever they are or not. And some of us have them. The awareness, some of us don't. And nobody's better or worse than anyone else.

[01:19:10] And everyone's spiritual.

[01:19:11] Yeah.

[01:19:12] To bring that back into a place of saying, how can I become as whole as I can so that when I take my last breath, I'm here. Even if this bit doesn't work, that bit doesn't work.

[01:19:23] I'm ill. I'm sick, or I've got cancer, whatever. It's just another hero's journey. Yes.

[01:19:27] Playing out. That's so beautiful. And. And there's nothing to be ashamed of.

[01:19:32] And I must say this to myself more often as well because I struggle with that.

[01:19:36] But it's like we are here to forgive ourselves and be present and therefore utilize. I believe whatever goodness has come out of our own intense struggles. To be able to storytell, to be able to receive story,

[01:19:51] to be able to share story,

[01:19:52] to know that actually it's okay.

[01:19:56] Even when it feels like it's so ******* isn't.

[01:19:58] Speaker A: And we're okay.

[01:19:59] Speaker B: Yeah.

[01:20:00] Speaker A: Can I just ask you one more question about that? So I'm just thinking about this idea of coming back with a different frequency,

[01:20:06] and alongside that, the idea of bits of our soul coming back to us on the edge of death.

[01:20:13] These two things sound to me like they're linked. Like this higher frequency came with some element of soul retrieval. Have I got that right? Or.

[01:20:23] Speaker B: Say that again?

[01:20:24] Speaker A: This idea that you were talking about, about coming back at a different frequency after this terrible accident where you nearly, nearly died.

[01:20:31] And this idea that you were talking about how when we go to the edge of death, we sometimes retrieve a part of our soul that has left us and are these things linked and.

[01:20:39] Yeah. What's your view on that?

[01:20:41] Speaker B: That's a really good question.

[01:20:42] The answer is, I don't know. But now you've said it like that,

[01:20:47] I've got goosebumps. And I think you might be right. I think it's. I think they are linked. I think that there's something about this idea that we go back to collect the parts that we've forgotten.

[01:20:59] But if they are stuck in the afterlife,

[01:21:02] then you can't go there unless you're on. On that cusp between life and death. It's almost like the window doesn't open in the sweet shot except once every three hours for one second.

[01:21:11] And if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you ain't going to get through the grass. Yes,

[01:21:15] but that may well be something to do with that. Yeah. And I think. I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling like some of the time it might be that some of the time it isn't that.

[01:21:25] Okay.

[01:21:26] Speaker A: Because this idea of a higher. These ideas of frequencies. And when we talk before we were recording about how, you know, you can feel when you go into a room or one can feel if there's a low frequency or a higher frequency.

[01:21:38] When you came back off the accident and you've made a miraculous recovery because, you know, we're not recording this with, with,

[01:21:44] you know, people can't see us. But you would never know seeing you walk in this room, what you've been through and what you've just described to us.

[01:21:51] Do you. Do you. Can you really feel that operating on a higher freak. How does that feel? I'm interested in.

[01:21:59] Speaker B: I probably said something similar earlier, but when I. When I work with a very extraordinary homeopath who is not your average sort of homeopath, not that sounds like a judgment, but she has different aspects to her and she's.

[01:22:18] It's a bit like trying to discern between the soul and the spirit and the physical and the personality.

[01:22:28] So I can be having a really bad day of being deeply human and full of holes and argumentative or miserable or all these things depreciating or feeling like I'm the thickest person, I'm the loneliest person on this planet and doing one of those sort of full whack numbers.

[01:22:46] And that's one thing. And that's. I'm probably stuck in my lowest vibration because I've been hurting a lot and I've. I've got. All my thinking is going into that negative funnel.

[01:22:55] Yeah.

[01:22:57] But witnesses that I know can see that can still maintain the frequency of my soul energy which rises above all of that. Which is why it's interesting because I think there's a certain place where this doesn't affect that that is and I think for all of us but whatever frequency that is is something that is deeply perfect,

[01:23:17] deeply beautiful and not marred by these things but it gets misaligned and I think there is a place of attunement in some ways. Right. And maybe you get that attunement every occasionally when just everything is in alignment and you just feel home.

[01:23:34] Speaker A: Yeah.

[01:23:35] Speaker B: And then it goes back to wibbly wobbly and a bit of this and a bit of that. And so from what other people have said to me they pick up that high frequency that I carry as a natural thing.

[01:23:47] And sometimes to some other people it probably wouldn't look like that because I'm deeply human and not perfect.

[01:23:52] Speaker A: Yes.

[01:23:52] Speaker B: And the both are true and they both have a separate life and I think they have one together. And the more maybe we'd come into our self love and our self acceptance and forgiveness and surrender and letting go and letting inspiration drive us rather than mind then I imagine that those two dance together in a more beautiful dance.

[01:24:09] Speaker A: That makes a lot of sense. That makes sense to you? Absolutely. Couldn't said it better.

[01:24:17] Speaker B: Yeah.

[01:24:18] Speaker A: Do you have any more questions for this? Wonderful.

[01:24:21] No, I can't wait to listen to this back actually. There's so many gems.

[01:24:27] How do you do group work? How can people find you? Just the sort of practical. If someone wants to work with you, what should they do? And have you got any group work coming up?

[01:24:36] How can people.

[01:24:37] Speaker B: First of all they need one. Somebody needs to offer Be my manager urgently.

[01:24:44] Well I think if I give you some, some connection maybe you could put them up. We could put the links on the thing. So I'm wanting to create a group called Way of the Weird.

[01:24:56] What did I say it was called? Way of the Weird Peculiars.

[01:25:00] Speaker A: Peculiars, yeah.

[01:25:02] Speaker B: Because weird W Y R D was an old Anglo Saxon word that meant kind of unique and special and we had got changed to something that was perhaps not considered so good which was not necessarily true.

[01:25:18] There's a beautiful myth and a story around that and I wanted to share that as a story time thing to open up maybe a group to work with the fact that actually every single person is a weird peculiar but certainly the wired peculiar weird peculiars, neurodivergent folk are,

[01:25:36] you know there's so many gifts there and I, I, I think it would just be a really great space to share with that as a focus whether it's a one off or whether it's part of.

[01:25:44] Of others. And today I was talking to Jo from CO Women, who is a lovely woman and as are CO women. A great group of people.

[01:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah.

[01:25:54] Speaker B: If anybody's thinking that they might like to be part of a clan of wonderful beings, then go check CO out because it's rather special.

[01:26:01] Speaker A: It's very special. Brighton based for those of us who are in Sussex. Sussex and Brighton, isn't it? Well, it's a bit older than Brighton.

[01:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. There are lots of different meeting spots but it's a really friendly organization. Lots of people in Euro Divergent with some amazing people in it and it's really fun. So that's definitely a thing.

[01:26:18] But we were talking about a group,

[01:26:21] a one off evening as a kind of a pilot which I've envisaged as telling some of this story,

[01:26:28] possibly having somebody else talking about how they've turned trauma to treasure,

[01:26:32] ideally a musician and then to do a journey with people. But I might bring a big powwow drum that can be played with eight people at a time and kind of close the circle with the sharing so that people come and they actually go into an experience.

[01:26:50] It's not just that you're sitting watching somebody. It's like we're part of whatever we create together and send out a ripple effect with a kind of over hang an umbrella of peace with the intention of peace.

[01:27:01] A little bit more peace within ourselves, a little bit more peace to ripple out.

[01:27:05] And God knows we need that in.

[01:27:06] Speaker A: The world right now.

[01:27:07] Speaker B: And then.

[01:27:07] Speaker A: That sounds beautiful.

[01:27:08] Speaker B: That can be broken into like singular sessions. So once a month or twice a month, we might spend the evening working with stories or we might spend the evening working with poetry or sound or voice or weaving some of the stuff like this conversation we've had.

[01:27:23] Yeah.

[01:27:25] Lots of different possibilities. So I'll keep you in touch and it would be great if you can share that when it feels right.

[01:27:31] Speaker A: Absolutely. We'll share a link to your contact so that if people are interested in getting involved in that, they can contact you directly to find out more and to start gathering a bit of a.

[01:27:39] Speaker B: Group of people around you. Thank you.

[01:27:41] Speaker A: But in the meantime, thank you so much and sending enormous love.

[01:27:45] Speaker B: Oh, thank you.

[01:27:47] Speaker A: We're going to have a big hug after this. Yeah, we're going to have a big hug.

[01:27:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like it's been an absolute privilege to sit here and talk talk with you. You're,

[01:27:55] you know, really lovely people to be talking with and you create a really special space and I've actually learned quite a lot from speaking and hearing myself speaking around bits and pieces that have helped tie things together.

[01:28:07] So it reminds me the word I would use is mitaqui o yasin, which means to all my relations, which is a Lakota word for basically reminding us that we're all connected.

[01:28:18] I love that. And. And. And I just send my love and gratitude to the ancestors and all the people that I've journeyed with and walked with and myself for falling over and getting up so many times.

[01:28:28] And for you guys and everybody who's listening to this,

[01:28:32] remember,

[01:28:33] let love be your guiding star.

[01:28:35] Where the light comes, darkness shines and disappears. And you are ******* awesome.

[01:28:40] Speaker A: Beautiful. Oh, thank you so much.

[01:28:44] Absolutely gorgeous.

[01:28:47] Thank you. We'll see you again. Very much.

[01:28:50] Thank you.

[01:28:52] Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening to us.

[01:28:56] And remember,

[01:28:58] our intention here is to always just be unapologetically ourselves.

[01:29:05] Thank you. See you next time.

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