Thrive with RA
Thrive with RA
From Hospital Halls to Garden Beds: One Nurse’s Return to Health Through Nature
In today’s episode, Dawn sits down with Kristin Silverberg—a Registered Nurse and Board Certified Patient Advocate turned Certified Organic Gardener—to explore how the principles of nature offer a surprising path to finding a better balance with autoimmune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis.
Diagnosed with two autoimmune diseases before age 40, Kristin felt dismissed by the very system she once worked in. But the game changed when she began focusing on whole foods which led to growing her own food. Within two years, she was off all medications—and today she teaches others how to create garden ecosystems that nourish the soil and ultimately the body.
Together, Dawn and Kristin unpack the surprising connections between soil health and gut health, how gardening can help calm inflammation, and why slowing down to work with nature—not against it—can radically shift your health journey.
Whether you’re managing RA or just feeling disconnected from your body, this conversation will leave you inspired to reconnect with the rhythms of the earth—and reclaim your health from the ground up.
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@diggingintohealth
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And so it's the same thing with the human body, right? Like, um, you know, we are also an ecosystem and people forget that. We have millions of microorganisms that would die if we died. They are living in our body, but it's nothing that we should be uh worried about. As a matter of fact, without them, we would not function as properly. It's a huge part, a positive part of our ecosystem.
SPEAKER_00:I'm Don Laughlin, certified health coach and fellow RA warrior. It wasn't all that long ago that I was in this place where I was fearful of the uncertainty of my future, wondering when my next player would come, or wondering when the pain would let up. Fast forward through many trials, errors, and lessons learned, and you'll find a gal who is stronger, healthier, and more confident in her future than ever before. Yes, I still have RA, but RA doesn't have me. I believe our lifestyle, food choices, and mindset greatly impact the way our bodies handle rheumatoid arthritis. I created the Thrive with RA podcast to explore the science-based ways to realign your health through these three pillars and so much more. We'll be navigating both the messy and the blessings that come from living the life with RA. Each week you'll get a good dose of education, inspiration, encouragement, and hope as you take small steps to improve your health and overall life. If you've been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis or are still trying to figure out if the symptoms you're feeling are indeed rheumatoid arthritis, you are in the right place, my friend. Let's get started. On today's episode, you are about to meet an amazing woman who is a wealth of knowledge around patient advocacy, autoimmunity, and organic gardening. And you may be wondering how these three areas align and why it matters, but trust me, they do. It does, and we'll be tying it all together with a big beautiful bow. Kristen Silverberg has become a fast friend and someone I am so excited for you to hear from. I'm gonna let her introduce herself. So buckle in and let's dive in. Well, hello, Kristen. I am so excited to have you here with me today. I have wanted to have you on my podcast since we first met, honestly. And uh that first time we got together and just kind of shared stories and really learned more about what each of us were doing, I was like, oh my goodness, we could talk for hours. And I think that we have anytime we get together. So I am so grateful that you are here. I have Kristen Silverberg here with me today on the podcast. And I wanted to bring her on because she is a wealth of knowledge, not only on the topic that she is talking about now, but she has a background in nursing and has patient advocacy experience and so many pieces that just align with what I talk to my audience about. And so I wanted to bring you on and share some of your knowledge and your wisdom. First, I just thought I would start off by, you know, asking you about your how what how you got here. What brought you to this point where you are now an expert gardener with digging into health and the journey to get you there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh, and what a journey it was, Dawn. Um, you know, I was a registered nurse. Um, I've been a registered nurse for 17 years. And even before that, for five years, I was a cardiovascular technologist working in the cath lab. So I really grew up in hospitals, very comfortable. It was my second home. Um, and I moved up pretty quickly, you know. I um, you know, I was in administration for a big medical system here in Houston. And then I really, the end of my nursing career, I was at the top of my game. I was working for a global healthcare company as a clinical consultant, and I was sick, Don. I was a workaholic. I had been diagnosed with two autoimmune diseases before I was 40. Um, and I was relying on the system that I grew up with that I believed in to help me. And I was met with a lot of resistance. I felt so alone. I felt so unheard. And I was told you're gonna be on medications your whole life. I was told there's no cure for either one of these autoimmune disorders. I was even scared when I got the second one, right? Um, it told, like, now it's a spiral, right? Now you got to be on more medications. And so I just really didn't want to live life like that because these medications were also causing problems. And every three years or four years, I'd have to, you know, either get on a different med or I'd have to change the dose. Sometimes it would put me into tachycardia, right? And so I was like, there has got to be another way. But I knew the system, I knew the best doctors, I knew the best people, and I really became disillusioned. And I remember feeling so alone in a system that I feel like raised me in a system that I believed in. And I thought to myself, if I feel like this, I can't imagine people that don't understand the system like I do and how they feel. And being in a high-level position, I had also become very far away from the patient. And the patient is why I got into nursing in the first place. My Ganny, my grandma was a nurse, and I just loved her and she was amazing, and I just wanted to be her. And so, you know, um, she worked with Dr. Jabakey, right? So she's old school, like the real deal nurse, right? And so um, you know, I just got disillusioned and I said, enough is enough. I am sick, I am overweight, I am tired, and I am doing everything that I was told I was supposed to do. So I started doing my own research. And um, and this is before I left uh the the modern medical system um as far as working. Um, and I I came across people that were healing themselves with food. And one of the reasons I got into medicine, to be honest with you, besides my Ganny, was because I always thought that the body was the most well-designed, beautiful machine on earth. It is just when you study in nursing and you start studying biology, it really does all make sense. It's just so, it's just so fascinating and so cool. Um, and so I thought, you know what? Our bodies are designed to heal us. It's all this extra stuff that bogs us down, the inflammation where our bodies can't do what it's supposed to do. So I said, you know what? I'm gonna try it. I have nothing else to lose. I I am already sick and tired. I already don't have answers. So I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna research it. I changed my diet, I started growing my own food. I started, and at first it was a little tricky, right? Because any new skill is tricky. Um and I, within two years, Don, I was off all medications. And I even had a hard time finding a doctor that would wean me off. Okay. Oh, I'm sure. So I had to really commit. Luckily, one of my main doctors is also a friend of mine, and she's like, Okay, Kristen, I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna let you do your thing because I'm stubborn. She knows I'm a stubborn person. She's like, I'm gonna let you. And she did. And she she was very surprised that I was able, even to this day when I see her. Um, you know, I was like that first patient for her that was like, no, I'm gonna really see if this works, and I'm gonna do everything to a team. And um, and so that started my journey. And then once I started to feel better from what I was eating, I realized that the job I was in was not, it wasn't just that it was stressful, it was not fulfilling me at all because I was too far away from the patient, and that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to actually help another human being one-on-one. Um, and so I I left my amazing job and I uh went back to school and I studied functional medicine. I was like, I want to know what all this is about. Remember, I was born into Western medicine, so I was skeptical too, okay? So I wanted to know for myself. And so I um I studied with a program at the University of Arizona and I studied functional medicine, integrative medicine. I studied the microbiome project, right? And I studied so many amazing things and talked to so many holistic doctors. And then afterwards, I started my company, Advanced Health Advocacy, where I helped patients that were like me navigate the complexities of our healthcare system because it's not just about being sick, the system itself puts a burden, a burden on the patient, the paperwork, the insurance, the fear that they instill in you when you do want to do something else. And so what I did is I helped them bridge the gap. There's plenty of holistic things you can do that don't affect chemo, that don't affect, right? And then there's some that do, but nobody was helping patients understand how to bring in holistic stuff into modern medicine. And I had a big problem with that, Dawn, because I believe, sorry, I'm really passionate. Yeah, no, go, let's go. I believe it is our basic human right to know every modality of health care out there, not just Western. I want to know what works, I want to know studies. So I started looking globally for my patients. I mean, I've had medications brought in from Germany. I have done because we don't always do it the best. Do we do some things really well? Yes, we do. We do body mechanics, we do some things really well. But there are people practicing medicine all over the world with great results, and I just wanted to know all of it. And um, and I was biased towards my patients. If my patient wants to stick with Western medicine, wants to bridge it, I let them lead the way. I only started the practice to be on your side, but with the knowledge that I have so that I can help get you where you want to be, because it's up to you. You're the patient, it's your body. You should be able to decide what kind of treatment you want. But no one has the options. Nobody knows how to pick because nobody knows what's real, what's studied. Um, and there's lots of holistic things that have white papers and studies, and I collect them, believe me. I love that's how it started. Um, and then to make a long story, uh, to bring it to gardening. So I had this advocacy company for a couple of years, and one of the things I started noticing is that when patients start going through chemo and treatment, they lose their purpose. Um, they're tired, they're fatigued, right? They're doing treatments. And so there wasn't a whole lot they could do to bring back in their purpose to get through the treatments. And so I suggested it just kind of started by, hey, you know, I'm a certified organic gardener because of course I went and got permaculture degrees and all this stuff because I'm a total nerd. Yes. Um and I was like, I took like a year-long uh, you know, class to learn organic principles. Yeah. And so I was like, hey, I can teach, would you like to grow your own food? Let's just do it for fun. Let's get you some purpose while you're going through chemo. And um, it was really cool because uh this particular patient's wife was like, I've never been able to get him to eat vegetables. Like, good luck, but he wanted to do it, so we did it. And guess what? He's eating vegetables. Eats vegetables. Yes. This was uh gosh, I think four years ago now. Um, and he's he's doing well. But you know, I think purpose um has a lot to do with how we heal. I found through all my studies when I went back to school that uh your the power of belief is real. Um, your state of mind affects how you're gonna heal. Um, and that's important. And so the burden that our system puts on people, it's almost like it makes them sicker, right? The complications with the insurance and all this stuff. So I would take away the burden of care and then teach them how to garden. And then I did it with my next patient. I just started asking my patients, do you want to learn how to garden? And they all were like, Yes, because these are skills we used to have. We just kind of lost them because of fast food nation and convenience. But like most of my patients, their grandparents, they grew up with their grandparents. So it wasn't that long ago that we were all having a garden in our backyard, right? We're only talking a couple generations ago, right? So it's yeah, so um that's kind of how it moved in. And I I had a gardening division, but the gardening blew up so much that I started digging into health last year. And I just it just ignited this passion. I want to teach people how to grow. I want to teach people how to put hands back into their hands, health back into their hands, health in their backyard. Uh, you don't have to worry about if it's sprayed because you know, you know what was sprayed, what happened. Plus, let's just be honest, the food just tastes better when you grow it. I mean, it does. I have teenagers and they eat vegetables, and it's not because it's because they like it. They'll tell me it tastes different coming out of our garden, and it just does.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And and the the feeling you get from pulling something from your garden that you are nurturing. Yeah. Oh Kristen recently helped me um create a garden in our backyard, and it's been amazing to just be able to experience that and learn and and all of the things. Um, and so as she's sharing all of this, you know, I could feel the passion of it too, because I've just I've wanted one of these for a couple of years, and um, there was a belief that that doesn't happen anymore. People don't do that. I'm like, I think they do, and so yeah, they did it. And we're excited and we're enjoying it. So um, so that's amazing to see the path that you you took to come to where you are now. And it's always been about the patient, and it's always been about helping people up close and one-to-one, you know, in a way to lead them to a better path of their health and and empowering them.
SPEAKER_01:You know, patients, when you're sick, you feel so helpless. Not only, I mean, and we're not even getting into you feel like your dignity is taken from you when you're going to do these tests and you have no choice, and they're taking your robe and they're putting you, you know, and they're lifting this up and doing this. I mean, there's just so many things that happen when you're sick. And I just feel like my main goal, especially, I'm gonna be honest with you, Tom. Yeah, especially being in administration for as long as I was. I mean, I know how to get you to the right place. I know how to reach the top, I know the buzzwords. I grew up in the hospital. If you got a problem, I'll help you fix it.
SPEAKER_00:It's amazing. Yeah, because then I think that's what is so unique about the wealth of experience you bring is that you do have so many layers, right? You don't just have the the nursing, you don't just have the administration within the hospital. I mean, you have so many layers. And now that you have brought it to this new path, it's it's incredible. And so that's why I was so excited um to meet you. And and I was like, I know we need to talk more. We need to, we need to connect because it's everything that I believed my core, that we were there's so much missing. And that overwhelm and that lack of support through Western traditional medicine keeps you stuck and it puts you in a vicious cycle of flares and pain and and loss of hope and all of that, whereas we just need to plug in some of what's missing so that we can reignite that and feel more empowered in our journey.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And just to as a caveat, I'm still a nurse's nurse. Listen, I've got so many friends, doctors, nurses in the medical field, their hands are tight too. They all went into the system to help people too, but it's the system itself it's broken.
SPEAKER_00:For sure, for sure. And yeah, from the insurance to the the medicine, you know, yeah, it's the whole thing. And I think most people do seem to see that, but they also feel stuck. Yeah, they don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Now what? Right? I don't have a choice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, what do you do? Yeah, you can talk to me. I'll talk to you about it all day long. It's right. Now we have a connection. Um so when um well, you know, you kind of covered that, how you you feel your health journey um shaped the way that you saw medicine. Because as you say, like the system is still the the underlying intention, most doctors very much want to do what they can, but they're limited on time with insurance. They're limited on, you know, the number of patients they can see in a day. And short of someone going to um, you know, functional medicine doctor outside of traditional and you're paying full amount, it's just doesn't it's it's it's not it's not a path that people can take or break free from. Yeah, it's expensive to be sick, very expensive, but exactly. Exactly. And I think that that's one of the things that I try to encourage people to understand too, because it it's expensive to be sick and that's not going to change. And it's a slippery slope, right? So if you stick with just the traditional Western way, it's a slippery slope because there's there's potentially more autoimmune conditions, there's potentially chronic, you know, heart disease. There's so many things that we have that tend to happen as we get older. And so if we stay just with traditional the path, then we are not um we're not giving ourselves the best chance to to find that that better balance in our health, because it's just going to keep layering on. So you're paying all that money to this, which the medicine alone, that alone can be so expensive. So when you compare that to all right, so if I invest myself heavily over here on health and I go all in on health, yeah, it's a lot of money, but it's a whole lot less than it would be if you just stick the traditional Western path that is a slippery slope.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And a lot of these modalities can be used together as well. Um, but I don't think that, you know, uh Western medicine, we're not really trained on that, right? Exactly. So so I think there's a place for for Western medicine. I think there's a place for functional, you know, where for me, why I moved into holistic is because where we get things wrong, in my opinion. So I'm sure I'll have some people that disagree, but where I feel like we get things wrong is we treat chronic illness with acute drugs. And that's where we really miss the mark. Uh, we do not have a real handle on chronic illness or autoimmune. And to me, and all the research I've done, it's because that's a direct relation to our environment. And nobody in Western medicine wants to touch the environment, right? And they don't want to touch those things because let's be honest, they're part of the problem in the environment. If you're gonna be if you're gonna be very candid. And so, um, however, I still think there's a place. If I have a broken bone, I'm going to the ER. Okay. So, you know, I think there's a place for all of us. Everybody wants the whole pie. And I think that's an injustice to the patient because there are lots of different pieces of the pie, and the patient should know all of them so they can make the right decision that effect that aligns with their values and who they are and how they want to live. Because when you're going through it, like you said, these medications can make you sicker. And so then your quality of life goes down even further, right? And so it's their, it should be their decision, and they should just have all the options laid on the table, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And it shouldn't be a a feeling of, you know, one my very first doctor was offended that I asked the questions. I really advocate for people, and I'm like, do not be afraid to ask questions. You have every right. And if you can't get the questions answered with that doctor, you need to go find another doctor because you know, and so some doctors are very set in their ways and they don't want to be open to the other modalities, and they may not be the right doctor for you, is what I what I say. Because there are plenty of doctors that are now starting to understand the bigger picture and they're going to get that additional training that was not given in medical school. Right. And so, you know, small steps forward. Um, and it's just a matter of people the right fit.
SPEAKER_01:And people don't realize some of these treatments, doctors cannot, if it's not FDA approved, even if your physician believes in, I don't know, it we could just name a modality. If it's not FDA approved, it doesn't matter if it has white papers, it doesn't matter, it it they could lose their license. So they they don't put a lot of time into studying those things because if they decide to go that route, they actually have to go into private practice. Right, right, which is a whole other thing, yeah. Yeah, so it's the system. And so what I tell patients is don't be mad at your doctor, just walk away. If you're not aligned, it's like if you run into someone or you have a coworker, if you're not aligned, just walk away. You don't have to be at the water cooler hanging out with them, right? You only have to work with them. And and people don't realize doctors are our employee. That's how I put it. Yes, we we are paying into them, they are our employee. And just like if we had an employee that wasn't aligned with our mission or our vision or our company, we would find an employee that does it. It's nothing bad about them, right? It's just you're finding what's in line with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And and that alone is empowered when you start to believe that. You're like, oh, wait, I do have a say in this, it is my body, and I do get to make some decisions here. But yeah, I love that. I love that. Um okay, so let's let's kind of tune a little to the gardening and um talk about the benefits of that along with health. And you know, anyone that has been part of my podcast or following me for any amount of time, I talk about exercise, I talk about food, I talk about all the modalities to to try and reduce inflammation because that's that chronic inflammation that we're trying to keep in check. Um, but we don't hear a lot about gardening, right? Yeah. So, and we also know through so many studies that, you know, being out in nature can be so restorative to our bodies. Um, so what benefits have you personally noticed and experienced, or those that you've worked with as you've talked, um, you know, working with your patients, what have you seen physically, mentally, or emotionally that they have walked away with from having their hands in the soil?
SPEAKER_01:Well, um, I funny, I uh I gotta say this because I just think it's funny. So I'm as stubborn as they come, okay? Which is why I was so good. I was an ER nurse for many years, and I was so good with my patients because I get the stubborn patient. Like I get all the excuses. I'm the same way, right? Like I have a hard time taking my supplements every day, right? So I'm very stubborn too. And so what I love about the garden is it tricks you, it tricks you into getting vitamin D, right? Vitamin D alone, good for your immunity, good for your circadian rhythm. It tricks you into movement. Gardening is a form of low impact functional exercise, right? Which we know, I'm sure you've already talked about, is huge. It improves circulation, it improves your lymphatic draining, right? It improves, you know, it can decrease chronic inflammation. So you're tricking yourself. Uh, mental focus. There's uh cognitive engagement in the garden. Um, and so you're sharpening your brain, mindfulness. Okay, so this I love. Gardening is meditation. You know, we all talk about meditation, and I've meditated for years, and I've been part of the strict meditations, and I realized over years meditation does not need to be strict. You do not need to be sitting in full lotus, right? With your fingers like this. If you do, that's wonderful. Yeah. But gardening is a form of nature meditation because meditation is about bringing mindfulness and focus to the present moment. And that's just what happens in gardening. So, you know, and then micro, you know, the exposure to the microbiome, right? There's some studies with that too, getting your hands in the soil. But the thing I like the most, I could sit here and list all these things, but the thing I like about it is you don't, you're not mindfully doing it. It's not like, oh, I gotta run 30 minutes on the treadmill. I gotta do, you know, I gotta do my low impact exercises. I, you know, it's like it literally tricks you into all these wonderful things that are good for you. So me doing this full time as a job now, and I get my hands in the dirt almost every day now. When I'm having a bad day, and I have bad days, right? I live in the world too. Okay, this place can get to down sometimes. It comes with it. Yep. Yeah. But when I leave a client's house after I put my hands in the garden, every time I feel better. Every time, no matter what. And it it makes me slow down. It makes me stop thinking about all the things I'm carrying with me, my my backpack, right? That I carry with me and my responsibilities and all the things I'm worried about. I take it down because I gotta focus on this right here, right now. The other thing that's cool is when you create an ecosystem, you find so many cool things in the garden. I mean, you could just go, it's not just the it's not just the veggies. You find praying mantises and you find so much cool stuff happening that it kind of tricks you into getting all these amazing benefits.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. Oh my gosh, so many things to that. I, you know, and I think what I find myself, I just go out and I eat breakfast and look at the garden and just hang out there. I'm like, I need to get a chair out right there because that's where the corner of our sunshine, morning sunshine hits. Um, I'm like, I just instead of standing out here, I need to put a chair out here. But you know, every time you go out there, you're starting to look at one thing. But because you're being mindful in that moment, suddenly you are opening yourself up to everything else around you. You're hearing the birds singing, you're hearing, you know, the the troop of circadias, whatever's going on in the background, right? And you just start to take in more than you would have ever noticed. And I mean, 10 minutes out there, and I come back feeling completely restored. Completely restored. It's incredible.
SPEAKER_01:Because it's it's also grounding you back to yourself, too, right? So it's also bringing you back into your body, it's bringing you back into your presence. You know, my kids, I used to trick them because that's what I do. But what's what parents apparently we learned something here about me? Yeah, but my kids, I would we'd go out in nature and I'd sit them down and I'd say, I want you to pick any spot you want. You can pick any spot. You could be by the water, you can be by the garden, wherever you want. And I want you to sit there and I want you to wait until it comes alive. And then when it does, call me over and show me everything. Because if you really sit, when you we look, we scan things. Like I'm looking outside, I see the grass, I see some trees. But if I was really standing there, I would start to see the ants crawling on the grass blades. I would start to see, yes. I would start to see that there is a whole ecosystem below our feet and uh around us, consuming everything that is right here that we just don't see, right? We're bigger, we're higher up on the food chain. Like I get it. But for mental health and for slowing down, it's really important to remind it that we are connected to this greater ecosystem and we're all a part of it.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. So I love that. I love that. Because I even think, you know, there's also when we look at stress levels and your nervous system and your energy levels, you know, all of that improves just by stepping outside. But just kind of when you take in something bigger than you, you do, you start to realize like my what was weighing me down so much inside, yeah, maybe isn't as big as I thought it was. And or, you know, maybe I can now just clear my head and go in and look at with a new perspective because you you took that time to step out there and find that new focus.
SPEAKER_01:When I like that last part that you said, because our problems aren't gonna go away just because we meditate or we do yoga, okay? And that's a misconception. What meditation, yoga, gardening, whatever your mindfulness practice is, what that does is it gives you a moment to be back with yourself. The problem is still gonna be there, but what happens is we get caught up in storm or the emotion of it and we can't think clearly, and now that creates stress. So this just helps us, these tools just help us pull aside and see it from a bird's eye view so that we can actually process through it and work our way through whatever the issue is.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Because I think too often people think that I just need to not have stress in my life, and we were created to have stress because our bodies are beautifully and wonderfully made, it's supposed to be able to handle that. The problem is in 2025, our stress levels come up here and they never come down because we are constantly connected to the internet, to a screen, to you know, a job, to everything is with instant gratification. So we never bring that back down. But stepping outside and and finding that time in nature and just really helping yourself give that time creates that drop in the stress levels. Your physiological stress goes down. And that really allows you to kind of come into more of a flow, which is what so many of my patients that I've clients that I work with, I'm helping them understand that hey, they are stressed up here because some we're so used to it. We've normalized it. And then learning to find ways in whatever works for you. For some, it's breath work, for some of it's going outside, you know. Yeah. To to start bringing that into a more um normal rhythm.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, just being out in the garden can lower your cortisol levels, right? It's decreasing that fight or flight. It's like a reset bus button for your nervous system or your parasympathetic system, right? Your rest and digest, you know, which in turn helps regulate your heart rate and your breathing. So, you know, you there's so many tools out there. And I always encourage people to find the tool that works for you because you have we're all different, we all have different experiences and we're all have different personalities. So you've got to find what works for you. And gardening works for me because I'm stubborn and you got to trick me to do all this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not getting my vitamin D without you know doing something else. I love that. I love that. Yeah, it's like you know, killing two birds with one stone. I mean. you're really able to do so much more and gaining exponentially um just by huge rewards from the garden i mean so big yeah oh i love that i love it i love it um so for somebody who's never gardened before what would you say to them about why it's worth starting even if it's a simple little pot with maybe some basil which yeah bring me the herbs all day long so why would it be worth starting you know i think most people want to grow their own food i i think that it's innately in us i i do think that most of the the people i talk to they want to but i hear so often i don't have a green thumb well that's not a real statement right because back when we had to grow our own food in order to feed our family right we've been growing food as humans since earth has existed and so it's a part of us innately it's a part of how you know uh we get back to ourselves and so I just remind them you have the green thumb thumb you're just missing key principles right key foundations these plants want to grow just like we want to grow but if we are put ourselves in the wrong environment we will not grow we will actually end up doing more harm than good and that's the same thing with a plant and so um you know what I do is you know I I I call my the way I teach gardening, I call it lazy gardening because I help you set up an ecosystem.
SPEAKER_01:It doesn't matter how small or how big I've got a gardening club and I've got several women in my club that have just a balcony and a couple pots and they're growing tomatoes and they're growing everything because um you don't need that much space. You just need to be curious and you have to have the desire. And I teach people how to create an ecosystem so that the nature's doing the work for you. So nature is how we all learned how to garden by watching nature teach us how to do it. And so what I do is I try to set it up in a way that nature would set it up so that they take care of your predators, they take care of your nutrients, right? And so I do a lot of companion planning and I do special beds to where you're literally encapsulating this little ecosystem. So you do less work and get to enjoy it more. So I would say I would say there's no such thing as I don't have a green thumb. You're just lacking a little knowledge and I've got plenty of customers that will tell you I can't tell you how many customers I've had that are like I really want to do this but I just I I've tried and I can't I was like I tell them every time don't worry you will grow you will grow don't worry don't worry um and I think it's hard too because we we get interested in gardening and then we go on social media. The problem with social media is you don't know what area we you know it's important to know your area we're in Houston it's hot and humid here like you need to know your seasons um and sometimes they keep they they they leave out key fundamental principles right so that you just keep have to invest in them and I'm not knocking anyone but what I'm saying is I really like to teach you how to grow and then let you go. And you can join my garden club and you can come visit for classes and come say hi. We we do we have formed a community but the goal is that you're on your own and you understand how to keep your ecosystem alive. I don't teach how to keep plants alive. I keep how to keep your I teach you how to keep your ecosystem thriving and then the plants will take care of themselves.
SPEAKER_00:I love that you are about as in in the other areas you served getting to the root cause so creating the root a foundation which is what I'm all about let's create a firm foundation that allows you to feel your best every day. So you're creating that foundation in the garden so that it can take care of itself so that you are just the nurturer and stepping in where you need to feed it or where you need to prune it or things like that. But you've created that foundation for the plants to thrive.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And that's what you do with your clients you're teaching them how to have a good foundation and care for themselves so that their body heals themselves, right? It's the same thing, you know, people forget we are nature we are a part of all of this too. So that's one of the other things I love when I have a problem and I go into the garden I almost always solve it in the garden because the garden teaches me everything. It's like a it's like a little small example of all the things we're dealing with in a bigger way.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Oh I love that so much. You know and so when we think about the garden and we think about human bodies there are so many things principles that mirror each other to nature would you say is true. Oh yeah oh yeah more than I could name I mean all of the principles I would say there's so many. So I thought we could maybe highlight three of them and know um and share that everyone there's so many more and if you'd like to learn more we can dig more and talk more about them. But you know take for example the soil and how they um create your healthy plant how healthy healthy plants creating that you know as you were helping me start my garden you were talking about putting in nitrogen and you're saying all these things that made so much sense to you and I'm like huh like and I would have just put dirt I would have looked for organic dirt but I would have not known about the other layers putting the old branches and putting the old uh leaves and letting all that decompost in there and create that that very rich soil had I not had an expert such as yourself lead me through that. And so how do you see that showing up in the body where do you see that similarity in the body I mean I think we we both know but let's let's dive into that.
SPEAKER_01:Well you know one of the reasons why I do that like I don't just use dirt I use soil. We're creating soil and what is the difference soil is you know filled with microorganisms. So the foundation of your ecosystem needs to be microorganisms needs to be a diverse amount of my microorganisms right and so you know the soil is it what I do is I feed the soil because that is the root of going all the way up to why the birds are going to show up. Okay. So so um you know it's like a food chain that we're creating and we're starting with things we can't see because you know a good soil is an intricate network of microbes of uh of fungi of of of organic matter um and nutrients that are all supporting life once that gets started life grows and gets bigger then the lizards come right and then the you know then the birds come and then everything else comes and so that is why I focus on creating the foundation of an ecosystem and then word will get out nature will know right and so it's the same thing with the human body right like um you know we are also an ecosystem and people forget that we have millions of microorganisms that would die if we died. They are living in our body but it's nothing that we should be uh worried about as a matter of fact without them we would not function as properly it's a huge part a positive part of our ecosystem um you know we also have bacteria fungi microorganisms and they influence digestion immunity inflammation even our mood and energy you know we're starting to learn learn that our serotonin and our dopamine is being created in our gut right yeah so so many things came out of that that uh that micro uh what is it the that project yes thank you yeah so many things came out of that that really opened our eyes and when I read that I go oh we're an ecosystem we are the ecosystem right we are right we are so learning to nurture that if that ecosystem isn't cared for what happens we become out of balance yes and that's what happens in the garden so it goes back to the same thing right so that's why I had you do all those things because I was having you put food in your soil to attract all the microbiome right all the microorganisms and then the the nature will start building its own ecosystem if you have the ground level food it's amazing I love it it's it's it's so exciting to go out and look this morning I went out and I looked and I found little mushrooms that had all popped up just these tiniest little I was like oh no wait what is is that good so I pull out my phone and I'm like they're like oh it's a sign of good soil I'm like I tell people all the time if you've got mushrooms in your dirt if you got mushroom not dirt soil if you got mushrooms in your soil that is the nature saying I'm loving it here your soil has everything I want if you've you know if you see earthworms earthworms are not going to hang out in soil that does not have a good diverse microorganism system so if you see earthworms that soil is usually really good and really rich in microorganisms so those are good signs that's amazing so it just you know as I as I talk about that and you mentioned the different types of ecos or microorganisms and how the garden has theirs and our and our human body has its own diverse range and the way we can um encourage that growth is through eating variety of foods right yeah so it's just like you know you've created that soil and it's you're able to kind of add in the different nutrients that it needs so that it can flourish and then it brings in the other organisms that help it flourish that's so much of what we need to do so that we can help create that strength, that foundation in our gut that then goes out to feed.
SPEAKER_00:Like you said, all these you know from our moods to our hormones to our digestion to um inflammation all of these things benefit when we go in and we nurture that ecosystem within us just as we would with the garden.
SPEAKER_01:And then when you have your hands in the dirt and you are commingling microorganisms oh yeah there's certain microorganisms that we know uh can help increase serotonin and I mean they're starting to do a lot more studies on the microorgans in the garden and nature and how it affects us. But you know if you really think about I love what you just said because you're like okay you create this ecosystem and then it bears fruit and you eat it and then that feeds your ecosystem. So you become part of this closed loop and that is what I considered sustainable living right I mean even my waste goes back into my right so I bring in my my food I cook it and I put the tops of my peppers right back into the garden because they want that. It's like it's a community. And so it really makes you feel like you're much more a part of nature than you realize and that's why it helps ground you bring you back into your body and make you realize that you're actually a part of something very vast and very big and very beautiful.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah and and that alone as you say that just feels empowering right because here when you have a condition such as rheumatoid arthritis you just feel like you are alone on an island nobody sees you because they don't see what's going on inside your body the pain the fatigue all of these things that are bringing you down and you feel just isolated. And so being able to step into something that is bigger than you and be able to contribute to that you know to me it just it creates so many emotions and positivity inside your body because you are taking care of something your energy is going to something and you start to see the fruits of that labor and that starts to build more um more strength within you right like it's just it truly starts to build you back up. I can do things like I am still needed I am still important and then before you know it that sunshine the ecosystem that you're playing in all these other pieces are bit your stress levels are going down there's so many wins so many there's so many wins there really are and it's it's not as hard as people think so you're a great example because you always wanted a garden but you were a little nervous you didn't have a green thumb let's be honest and I that's very honest.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah and I said yes you do we all have green thumbs we just have to refined we have to reconnect with that part of ourselves and you know your garden's doing good and I think it's already taught you some things right I mean nothing's gonna go perfect in the garden either but even when things don't go right we learn from it and we same thing in life life isn't gonna go perfect. So this really teaches us lessons in patience lessons in um in taking time to heal and taking time to grow you know we want everything right now right we want and so uh the garden really teaches us that like the most beautiful things that are coming our way are still growing and so we have to just keep nourishing our bodies until we get there.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I think it also points out as you've said all that uh two other pieces that you have to trust the process.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And bringing someone in alongside you that has the expert that is taking that path before that knows that can collapse time so that you aren't going down rabbit holes trying to research what you're doing. Yeah spending money on things you don't need I get I see that a lot people spend all this money I'm like you know these gadgets are cool but you don't actually need them a lot of times right exactly exactly so I think that that is such the value of hiring an expert where you are trying to collapse time where you are trying to have some because we do want things yesterday. We do want to feel better yesterday we do want the garden to grow today and produce fruit um but we have to trust that it's going to take time and that we have to trust the process and have some faith.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah right my favorite garden quote is um the seed you plant today is not the fruit you eat tomorrow. And I just love that because planting a seed is believing in tomorrow. It's planting a seed is hoping for a future and I think that like when we're sick and we're stuck in the system we lose hope faster than anything. And so gardening I feel like really breeds that hope and reminds us that tomorrow's another day.
SPEAKER_00:For sure I I love that I do because I just feel like that's the thing is is it when it comes to the mustard the mustard seed right that little it just takes a little bit it just takes a little bit you just put that faith out there and and test that or trust that some things you're just gonna have to be uncomfortable and and learn through and be patient with and beautiful things come from it. So with with nature and when you're working in the garden there's a lot of rhythms right that you have to as you're trusting that process. And so tell me a little bit about those natural rhythms what as you're building a garden like what what has to go into that to to create something sustainable.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah you know and it's it's kind of like life right there's different seasons in in our life and there's different seasons in our weather and so you know really understanding those seasons is a big part of being a successful gardener wherever you are. And so it's the same thing you know you've got to take time you've got to make a commitment to yourself. You've got to make a commitment to the garden in order to heal in order to grow. And that comes with understanding the seasons and what you can grow when um and that's the same thing in our life right you know there's those sayings where you know people sometimes just come into our lives for a season. They were supposed to teach us something and move on and so that's the same thing with the garden right you've got to know where you're placing things in the right season and you've got to make sure you're placing people in your life in the right place too. Exactly yeah and then there's there's definitely rhythms and flows and you know you've got weather you've got lots of different things that happen in the garden but I think that um you know if you the main thing with gardening is just to be present and just to be mindful.
SPEAKER_00:That just takes me right into you know comparing that to the same principles that we as humans need, right? We need to be mindful, we need to be present we need to uh honor our circadian rhythms we have menstrual rhythms the women have menstrual rhythms there's so many rhythms that we have and we have to learn bring in that rest along with the activity so that our body can flow through that and not be at that elevated state. And I feel like that is one of the best principles that we can learn like you know that connection with the garden's just come out it goes through its rest phase and it goes through its growth phase and and it's very similar to us, right? Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah and one of the things too I teach because because I teach you how to create an ecosystem ecosystems are in different stages all the time okay so like right now in my garden I've got some of my spring so my tomatoes are still trying to hold on but they're their season's about to end. Yeah but then I've got my corn who's like I love this heat. I am just gonna grow and grow and grow. This is the best right so I always have my ecosystem in different stages because of what they need and what they're necessarily. And the thing is you know people get so upset they're like oh I wish you know in California let's say you can grow tomatoes all year long and they're like oh I wish you know we could grow tomatoes all year long. And I say you know what's interesting about that? They have a very bad pest problem because nature isn't helping them close their season out. And so you think you want that but actually they a lot of times do use pesticides because they've got those bugs never it never gets too cold or too hot to kill them right. And for us it's mainly cold because you know the heat our bugs love. But you know I think it's important to have those rhythms and those cycles um because um you know it it just kind of like helps us understand that just like us, we all have the different things that we like we all have it but we're all contributing to the same ecosystem. So I'm not sure I explain that.
SPEAKER_00:No, I think that we we definitely hit and and you know you brought up another important point that we talk a lot about is eating and season and why that's so important because of those nutrients. Tell me a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah so we actually um uh um I have a friend who's an uh she's an energetic chef and we do she does classes on this she does classes on why you should eat based on the time of the year. So when you're going into winter and you look at those particular vegetables and the nutrients that they bring they tend to be more um hardy right they tend to be more um nutrient dense because we're going into hibernation right then all your spring veggies are very full of water and they're very hydrating well that makes sense because the heat's about to kick up right and so if you really look at what grows in what seasons it is do designed for our bodies and not just us for all the animals in the animal kingdom right we're all eating this stuff right we're all a part of it um but the it's designed based on what we need in that season because of the weather it's quite it's quite amazing if you really think about it. And that's one of the reasons why I don't teach people how to grow food. I teach people how to create an ecosystem. It's really important to me and I feel like you know it's a little bit different. I think it's what differentiates me from other people um but it's I think healthier it's better for the environment it causes it's less work for you all you got to do is understand a few principles about the foundation and understand what you're doing. And I think it makes it easier too I really do. I think it makes it easier for people to understand so they feel it's digestible and not so complicated.
SPEAKER_00:Right right um you know that that reminds me of a conversation we had had that we were getting life started and I was overwatering with my little garden because I wanted to nurture it well. And we were talking about you know you you were mentioning that they need to be stressed a little bit so that you know and have a moment of not having the water it needs so that it can have that growth. And we started to talk about the correlation in in a health journey is we have to get uncomfortable in this journey to healing to feeling better before we can be comfortable. It's going to be uncomfortable going through it because it is change. It is hard but it's through that change and through that that feeling of stress that we get to the other side and we can start to have less pain and more energy and just more vibrancy in our life.
SPEAKER_01:And that was the saying with the garden you were like you know they they got to be stressed a little so that they can bloom and flourish so that it can start producing that fruit bearing that fruit yeah and that it's funny that you bring that up because I'll have patients I'll have clients that are like I watered it so much I took care of it. And I was like well actually the whole point of gardening in nature you don't have someone watering it every day. If the plant doesn't stress out it's not going to produce a fruit because producing a fruit to the plant means I need to survive. Producing a fruit with the seeds in it is the plant's way of guaranteeing that they're gonna survive the season. Okay. And so um strawberries are a really good example because everyone loves strawberries and they're small and so they get excited and then they don't have success because strawberries need to be stressed out. If you're watering it every day and you're tending to it and it's your best friend it's never going to give you a strawberry because it's happy it's like I'm gonna live forever why would I give you fruit we're supposed to just go out and just bask in their beauty.
SPEAKER_00:We're not supposed to like always go and give them a drink. That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah you do you'd want them to dry out in between um and it is the same as as life right a change is difficult but the every risk I've ever taken in my life and every every painful experience I've ever had in my life I came out of it with a different fruit with something different that I didn't have before I evolved as a human being my soul my intelligence whatever it is whatever the problem is and it's the same thing they need to evolve too and so um and so yeah and also it's even better because it means you need to do less.
SPEAKER_00:So you'll be a great gardener if you just do less the difference with nature take its course exactly exactly oh I love that uh well let's talk about pruning and pruning to grow and why that is so important in the garden and in health and what that can kind of look like. So for the garden what does that look like and why is that important?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah so pruning is about creating space more space for life um you know when we cut back dead and overgrown branches we're just redirecting the plant's energy towards what's healthy and productive and I think that's the same in humans right um we have to do our own pruning too that might be letting go of habits relationships roles you know that once maybe they felt right but now they're draining us right they're draining our energy and and I think it takes courage um it takes courage because you know those things become part of our identity and so um you know just like being in the garden you know we have to release what no longer serves us. So for me personally I would say um you know I've had to step away from work environments I've had to step away from friendships um even thought patterns that I've had to you know that kept me stuck in survival mode. And at first it feels like a loss but over time it creates space for things that are aligned with my values and give me energy instead of taking away and so I think ultimately the garden in that area when talking about pruning has taught me that um you know you can't pour life into something new if your resources are all tied up in what's already dying. Right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah and it's the same thing in the garden so true.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that's where a lot of people struggle because we like to stay safe. We like to stay comfortable and our brain wants to keep us safe. So even if it's a habit that's not serving us well, our brain's saying no no no this is what we do. This is comfortable this is good. And and so it makes that change so much harder but you have to start to recognize that that is actually no longer serving your body and it's actually keeping you from growing into this new space that you are being called to or that you need to go to to find health and being able and being brave right because that is what it is about to just take that leap of faith and and let go of the thing you know and I and I often talk about just experimenting let's just experiment it's an experiment let's see what happens. I love that I love that it just creates this sense of like okay well I can experiment it's not a this is what we do now. It's like let's experiment and because once people see how good they feel when they let go of XY or z or they change XY or Z. Yeah it's no longer their experiment it's their new habit.
SPEAKER_01:So exactly exactly yeah and it's hard and we're here to help them you know I think that's one of the things you and I connected on very early on is we've been through it. Like we we have been through what the people we serve are are are going through. And so we have a level of empathy and understanding we know what it's like to feel alone we know what it's like to feel lost we know what it's like to wallow in our own self-pity too let's be honest right I'll admit it I I I don't hold that no and I think that that's part of the growth in the journey too and one of the best ways to build resiliency is to truly let yourself feel that yeah and decide what you need to keep moving forward.
SPEAKER_00:That's the piece that so many of us don't connect with until you you you learn that skill set and once you create that then you're you are able to see and feel hard things as they come your way because right life it's going to happen. Things are hard it's not a piece of cake and so you learn to be able to feel those feelings and see how you can have serve yourself to keep moving forward. And that's what resiliency is all about. It's how you're building you're you're diving into the roots of your of your garden I mean you truly are creating that root system that helps you flourish and there's nothing better than that. So pruning back prune back is so important. Yeah take away what does not serve you in the garden and in life exactly exactly and just be and be be curious enough to be brave enough to see what's on the other side. Yeah because more more often than not and you know you you mention friends sometimes that is one of the things that was so hard and I never saw it coming and yet it was the biggest blessing because certain people are not going to go along your side as you go through this journey and there's a reason for that. They may not be ready or they're gonna hold you back. So being willing to let go of that so that you can step into this new season that you're being called to is so important. So important it is so if somebody's listening and they're feeling inspired thinking okay okay I maybe for fall I could start a garden. What's a simple way that they can start tending uh their ecosystem so whether it's in a garden or if we're thinking small steps in a body but with the garden what would you find?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah you know I think um one thing that people can do on their own without spending a whole lot of money is to start with microgreens. Get, you know, yeah start with microgreens start with a a cute little you know tray for your sunny window um put some good soil in there I would say go to go to um a nursery and ask them for a a soil that you use to germinate seeds or a soil that you use when potting new seeds. They'll know what you're talking about. I'm not being technical I'm trying to make it easy um because they have uh that you know they keep uh the soil really uh moist so just use soil um and then I always tell people start with broccoli seeds so go get a big bag of broccoli seeds and use them as microgreens put just put them all on the top of the dirt then put a little bit more dirt on top and then put them in a sunny window and water them every three to four days. Within seven days you'll have enough microgreens to put right on your food. And I always say start with broccoli because broccoli doesn't really taste like much as a microgreen so you can put it on anything and it won't bother kids either because it doesn't have a taste. It's not bitter. It really just takes on the taste but it's also packed with it is nutrient dense broccoli is one of the most nutrient dense microgreens there are and it's one of the easiest to grow. So I say start with broccoli seeds, start with microgreens put them in a sunny window window and then if you want to build something bigger you know I do consultations because I've got people that just have a patio so sometimes I just come in for a 30 minute consultation and just tell them what to do, where to go based on where they live I know all the places to buy the soil where to go. So I you know we can do a 30 minute one hour consultation if you want to do it yourself and you just want me to tell you how to do it, you'll be on your own. And then I I go up from there I can build your beds I can design them I've got several clients that um this is actually a big client I get you they finally get their land out in the country and then they're like what do I do with all this and those projects are always fun because you know I've taken permaculture classes so I can help you set your land up for the future. Because the whole point is to set it up in a way to where you are not doing a lot of work. You want to set it up. I mean, I consider the north and the wet and the north winds. I consider the way the sun rises and sets. Um, because if you have it in the right place and you have the right foundation, you will do less work. It will, it will create an ecosystem, and all you're doing is managing that system instead of managing the plants themselves. Set them up to succeed and they will succeed just. Yeah. And then another fun thing that I like to do just because gardening for me, like I said, I'm stubborn, so it needs to be fun. So I like to set up, especially if you're a new gardener and you're coming to me the first time, I'm like, hey, do you like salsa? Let's make a salsa bed. You know, with everything in it, you can just put in a blender and blend some salsa, right? Um, I've got I've made tea beds where everything there doesn't need to be dried out. It can be plucked right off the plant and put right into hot tea. Um, we make all kinds of fun beds. I make um, you know, edible flowers. I only put edible flowers in the garden so that you know every flower that you put in there, you can eat. You can put it in a salad, you can top a cupcake with it. So I like to make it fun and accessible because I want you to be bringing it into your house and having fun and learning new skills and learning to cook with things that you've never cooked with before. And so that's why I have the extra clubs. Um, that's why I do the extra classes on you know seasonal foods and different things with my partner who's an energetic chef. Um, just because it's not about growing, it's about making it part of your lifestyle and making it easy. If we make these things too difficult, we're not gonna do it. We still have kids, jobs, responsibilities, all these things. So it needs to be done in a way that it can really actually fit in your lifestyle and it becomes something fun, not a burden. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And and right, that's the goal with anything. We create the lifestyle that is easy and sustainable, right? Yeah, and something you enjoy. And you know, some so often people are like, Well, I don't like doing, you know, this particular exercise. I'm like, well, don't do that exercise. What do you like doing? Let's let's find things that are going to be easy and sustainable for you that are gonna help you move your body every single day. So yeah, I love that you said that because it is all about building something that is easy and sustainable and enjoyable. Yeah. Love that. Um so what's one lesson from the garden that continues to shape how you show up for health today? Is there anything that comes to mind?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what we discussed before. I think um, you know, there's so many lessons in the garden, but ultimately the garden has taught me to slow down.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The garden has taught me the beauty in patients, um, the beauty in trusting the process. Um, you know, when I was going through my health crisis and I was diagnosed with these autoimmune disorders and I was taking these meds and felt so alone, you know, I just wanted to feel better. Uh, but I finally, when I started doing the research and I realized like everyone was being very honest that if you are trying to heal with food, it takes time. And so I just put that in my head because I was determined to do it. So I was like, okay, it takes time. And I would say it took about a couple of years, but in that couple of years, I was already starting to feel better. It was already moving in that direction. And within two years, I was off the medications. And um, but it would not have been healthy or safe for me to get off of them day one, right? And so we have to consider that, you know, it took a while for us to get to this place. It's gonna take time for us to undo and to give our bodies a chance to heal. Um and so that's what the garden teaches me, patience. Um, when I put in those seeds, I want that corn right away. But in a week, I get to see it pop up, and that's another exciting moment. And then in three weeks, I get to see it this tall, and that's another exciting moment. So I have learned to find ways to celebrate on the journey, which I didn't do before. I did not do that before. I was just looking at the light at the end of the tunnel and I wanted to be there right then. But there's these little wins and these little beautiful moments on the way there. And that's why surround yourself with good people, surround yourself with people that that share your values, that support your decision, whatever your decision is, because it's your right. You know, surround yourself with the right medical team. If you're not being heard, you don't have to say anything. You just go find another another team, right? Set your team up to align with you. And you know, it's um I wish I had known that. The garden taught me that, and um, and life taught me that. But I can remind my patients because when I think, Don, when you and I were going through it, we were going through it alone. And that's one of the reasons why what we do is so important, because I do not want anyone to feel as alone as I felt when I was trying to heal, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I love that. And I and you you all the words right out of my mouth, all of that. I think that I'm completely aligned with that. Um when so and I think you mentioned, you know, how you're different, you really create this ecosystem. Is there anything else that stands out of why somebody would want to to reach out to you that would make a difference in their um getting started?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I think that's the main thing I do is I create an ecosystem. And like I said, um, you know, I have a wide range of budgets that I work with because if you're a do-it-yourselfer and you want to go get all the equipment and you want to do it all, I'll just tell you exactly what to do. And I'll be a phone call away. If you've got a question while you're at the store, I have no problem, you know, helping you out all the way to people that are like, no, I want you to build it, I want you to install it, I want you to put the plants in and then teach me. Um, I also have a maintenance program. I've got some larger, um, I've got a couple clients with larger plots of land. And so when they go on vacation, I come in and I take care of everything and I harvest it. And so just to make sure it keeps going. So there's lots of different levels to it. Um, and I always tell my clients, I will do as little or as much as you want. My goal is to get you on your own, and then we just become friends.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a beautiful friendship to have. I love it. Um, and so where could people reach out and find out more about what you do and more of uh a service that you offer?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so my website is uh diggingintohealth.com and um I have an Instagram page as well where I I do different videos and we can chat back and forth if you've got questions, and that is um at digging into health as well. Amazing. So uh those are the easiest ways to find me and get in touch with me.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Well, Kristen, I cannot thank you enough. I knew this conversation would be rich and impactful, and it was everything I had hoped for and more. So thank you so much for spending time. And um I hope that the the listeners are able to walk away with a lot of golden nuggets. And if they are local local to the Houston area, that they will reach out and be brave enough to start the garden because I am here to tell you from personal experience, it is amazing. It's everything you could help for.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, thank you, Don. I really appreciate it. We always have it was kind of fun. This is how we normally talk, but we get to just do it on camera. Um, so but yeah, I I love it. I love what you do, and I think you're just important um to your to your clients and to you know the RA community as a whole. So uh thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Fran. Okay, we'll see you soon. Okay, bye.